S05.E01: Orientation (1) / S05.E02 Orientation (2)

[RobertDeSneero]

On 12/2/2017 at 11:05 AM, bettername2come said:

As for the "Quake destroyed the world" stuff, this better be wrong and I need this season to tie into Infinity Wars. Frankly, I need a least a few of these characters to show up in Infinity Wars.

Maybe this is meant to explain why these characters weren't around for Infinity War, because they time traveled before and came back after, while maintaining a thematic tie-in for heroes in space.

I liked how they had three groups all figuring out they were in the future on their own.  I figured it out because Virgil said he had been waiting and the best explanation for how he would know all about Coulson and his team would be because they were legends of the past whose details were historical knowledge that had been handed down.  When he said he was the welcoming party, it really felt like he was a guy waiting for a time traveler to appear at the predicted time.

[tennisgurl]

So we get space AND time travel in one arc! I dont know about this, I kind of would have preferred for them just to go to space, without dealing with time travel hijinks. Time travel can so quickly turn overly confusing and create plot holes left and right, and its a bit overdone at this point (isn't this "we have to stop the bad future" plot number 10037?), and with Infinity War coming up and so much of the MCU Galactic side coming into focus, there is going to be a lot of complications. That being said, the show has certainly earned some good will from me, so I will give it a chance to see how they play it. 

So, why wasn't Fitz on the list of people to be shot into space/the future? You cant say that he is the least valuable person on the team! I guess he`ll be working in the current time to help them out, which we all know wont make things even a LITTLE bit confusing. Did Ian have another project? Because I miss him a lot. he and Jemma just cant catch a break. I did laugh at how Jemma was basically just like "this happens to us all of the time, I know we`ll get back to each other soon enough". 

Glad that Yo Yo is with the team, I really like her, even when she can be a bit pushy with Mack. Speaking of, I just love Mack's reactions to whatever weirdness is happening now. He is just DONE all of the time and its great. Just wait until Infinity War, Mack. Although, I will crack up if they get back to Earth and the present time just as Infinity War is wrapping up and Thanos is leaving. "Hey guys, did we miss anything?" *Car flies by on fire*. I mean, I assume...

Of course the aliens who have taken over humanity is the freaking Kree. The resident assholes of the Marvel Universe. The guys who generally illicit responses ranging from "I will kill you on site you stupid blue bastards" to a very poorly hid eye roll and a muttered "oh, these motherfuckers". I am curious about why none of the other aliens have tried to help humanity, if everyone has been enslaved by the Kree? There are supposed to be rules against this on some level, right? Even if its not enforced all of the time? Maybe this is a darkest timeline scenario and the Kree is the only empire left? I dont think so, but I guess its possible. 

I am interested in where this is going and how Daisy managed to destroy the Earth (somewhere in the multiverse, Barry Allen is breathing a sigh of relief that he isn't the biggest superhero screw up ever), so lets find out!

[Sandman]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

... Barry Allen is breathing a sigh of relief that he isn't the biggest superhero screw up ever),

When does it cease to be considered heroism when one's adventures consist solely of trying to avert catastrophes or repair cataclysms of which one is the cause? I, too, am getting tired of the grim dystopias; last season was enough, bordering on too much.

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am curious about why none of the other aliens have tried to help humanity, if everyone has been enslaved by the Kree? There are supposed to be rules against this on some level, right?

I get the feeling that the Marvel Multiverse generally isn't the kind of place that has many benevolent alliances of worlds in the first place; and in the second place humanity might be considered too insignificant for any other advanced civilation to worry about very much. (In the MCU, that feeling is intensified by the idea that, among the worlds that are aware of Earthlings, if we're not considered insignificant, we might be thought of as, well, assholes, basically.)

I do like how genre-savvy Mack is becoming. ("Space? Yeah, 'cause that's the one thing we haven't done yet.") I also liked Elena's lampshading of "Don't you guys have an outpost in space, like, S.P.E.A.R., or something?"  That did make me wonder if Season 5 will end with the creation of S.W.O.R.D.

[greekmom]

On 12/2/2017 at 0:05 PM, bettername2come said:

As for the "Quake destroyed the world" stuff, this better be wrong and I need this season to tie into Infinity Wars. Frankly, I need a least a few of these characters to show up in Infinity Wars.

I don't think Daisy did.  What the girl said to Coulson was that most records and data was destroyed by the Kree.

Which really irks me. How can thrift store Star Lord a) make the assumption that Quake destroyed Earth when all records were destroyed?  b) How does the Framework exist if Kree again destroyed everything that had to do with technology, information, etc? (and the news items within the Framework as well. and c) how does thrift store Star Lord know how to work the Framework when it took 2 brainy scientists and an android to work it out in the first place?

The whole plot DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. 

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Which really irks me. How can thrift store Star Lord a) make the assumption that Quake destroyed Earth when all records were destroyed?  b) How does the Framework exist if Kree again destroyed everything that had to do with technology, information, etc? (and the news items within the Framework as well. and c) how does thrift store Star Lord know how to work the Framework when it took 2 brainy scientists and an android to work it out in the first place?

Not to be defending the show unduly, because I think there are (again) some significant plot holes (plot craters?) in this season's premise, but I think the answer boils down to "Guesswork?" Thrift Store Star Lord (love that name, btw!) knows that Quake's powers involve some kind of seismic mojo -- I think he's assuming that she's powerful enough to crack the planet to its core. In fact, I think his line in the "reveal: DUN-DUNN!" scene amounts basically amounts to that. Doesn't he say something like "Who else could do that?"

It doesn't sound to me like the Kree have destroyed everything to do with technology altogether. Tess said that records of the time before the Kree have been wiped out, but obviously advanced tech still exists, though human access to it appears severely restricted. I think we're meant to suppose that Thrift Store Star Lord's ability with tech is supposed to be genius-level or beyond, if he accomplished a major portion of the programming for the virtual reality opium den through, again, guesswork. (Not that I think that'll come in handy later, or anything.)

What I don't get is how TSSL's kept "the Gallery" operating (relatively discreetly?) this long if just passing too close to the transmitters knocks the unwary unconscious and sweeps them along into the illusion. There must be some kind of crazy shielding on the decking and bulkheads to prevent random people getting pulled in just by strolling along, a corridor or a level away. That can't be very efficient for the Caustic Blue Alien Overlords.

Also, Kasius and his alteration/brainwashing of Jemma is creeping me the hell out. Especially whatever the crap that implant earworm tech is. Yrrch.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Sandman

[Raja]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Of course the aliens who have taken over humanity is the freaking Kree. The resident assholes of the Marvel Universe. The guys who generally illicit responses ranging from "I will kill you on site you stupid blue bastards" to a very poorly hid eye roll and a muttered "oh, these motherfuckers". I am curious about why none of the other aliens have tried to help humanity, if everyone has been enslaved by the Kree? There are supposed to be rules against this on some level, right? Even if its not enforced all of the time? Maybe this is a darkest timeline scenario and the Kree is the only empire left? I dont think so, but I guess its possible. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

 

I get the feeling that the Marvel Multiverse generally isn't the kind of place that has many benevolent alliances of worlds in the first place; and in the second place humanity might be considered too insignificant for any other advanced civilation to worry about very much. (In the MCU, that feeling is intensified by the idea that, among the worlds that are aware of Earthlings, if we're not considered insignificant, we might be thought of as, well, assholes, basically.)

 

If I am remembering the Lady Sif appearances correctly earth was under Asgardian protection as she showed up to  deal with the Kree who came to investigate  after "Skye" and Raina went through the terrigenisis in the temple. That being said there is the spoiler of the Norse legend of Ragnarok to explain the Kree taking over the debris field as scavengers seemingly unopposed. Pending the identification ofKasius's vistors

[jhlipton]

I am so tired of "technological overlords enslave the poor heroes", as well as "aliens find Euro-centric concepts of 'beauty' to be the ideal".  Any reasonable techno overlord knows that Huxley is FAR more stable than Orwell.  In fact, they gave away an easy way to do it: put everyone in the Framework and program it so what they want to do is what you want them to do.  If you are going the Orwell route, monitor everyone for every minute -- they can't plot if every single conversation is recorded.

I just find this reeks of worn-out plot-lines I've seen far too many times. 

[Sandman]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Any reasonable techno overlord knows that Huxley is FAR more stable than Orwell. 

Apparently a couple of pages from Kasius's Evil Overlord List got mixed up with all the historical records that were being purged on the Kree's big shredding and whiting-out day.

[jane1978]

I liked it. It was completely different than I expected but the show is in it´s fifth and very likely last season and they´ve already did almost everything so it´s time for the writers to have some fun. And I loved how completely confused they kept both the characters and the audience. I just wish they would give us atleast a hint of what Fitz part is in this. I was sure we will see him in the last scene of the two parter, but nothing. 

Of course, part of this plot is probably a budget thing, because these space episodes are essentially the infamous bottle episodes where only permanent sets and no exteriors are needed. It couldn´t be more obvious that the colony spaceship interior is the former Shield headquarters set.

[kitlee625]

Overall I really liked this opener. Season 4 just didn't grab me, and I only watched a few episodes. But this is right up my alley. I was genuinely surprised by the time travel reveal, and I am really curious about how this is going to unfold.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 11:38 PM, Senna said:

Any hints as to who the guy at the beginning of the episode (with the skin suit) was?  Were we supposed to recognize him?

I don't think we're supposed to know who he is yet. His character is listed as "Enoch." He seems to be an alien, but I'm not sure what kind. I don't know a lot about the comics, but it seems like he's not a Skrull since the Skrulls can shapeshift (and thus he wouldn't need a human skin suit). The options would seem to be another Kree (although that one guy had a potion that made him look human) or some other alien.

On 12/2/2017 at 11:30 AM, Mr. R0b0t said:

I suppose I can thank Star Trek II for my continual heebie jeebies whenever someone has something crawl inside their ears.  It borders on horror to have someone just remove one of your senses... Jemma took it much better than I ever could. 

I had the exact same thought when I saw that scene. Ugh. I hate bugs in the ears.

On 12/2/2017 at 11:33 AM, Chris24601 said:

The funniest thing to me is DiscountStarLord trying to sell the case that Daisy blew up the world in the past. But the world was intact before they got shoved into the future so unless its a stable time loop then Daisy couldn't blown it up because she was never there to blow it up; having already been sent into the future.

One way of getting around this would be if them coming back in the past has created a time loop, and the world will be destroyed when Fitz tries to rescue the team / the team tries to travel back to the present.

[WatchrTina]

I'm confused.  Possibly because I kept playing Candy Crush . . . which shows you how engaged I was.  That's too bad -- I can remember in early seasons where this show had my undivided attention and had me hugging myself with glee.  Later I was a bit taken aback with the whole Ghost Rider thing.  And now . . . I don't know what this is.  Props to those who said they were picking up a "Hunger Games" vibe from those servitors.  And the virtual-reality opium dens make me think of Star Trek TNG holodecks crossed with those comatose folks in Inception. Oh and the post-apocalyptic human colony in space felt an awful lot like the beginning of the CW show, The 100. Sigh. Nothing here feels fresh. 

[Sandman]

On 12/2/2017 at 11:30 AM, Mr. R0b0t said:

I suppose I can thank Star Trek II for my continual heebie jeebies whenever someone has something crawl inside their ears.  It borders on horror to have someone just remove one of your senses... Jemma took it much better than I ever could.  

Co-signed. Having stuff implanted (or worse, crawl into) the ear definitely qualifies as body horror for me. I would have had a meltdown. Jemma Simmons is only shy and retiring on the surface -- under that timorous exterior, she's got a vibranium spine.

On 12/2/2017 at 3:20 PM, Terrafamilia said:

I wonder who Kasius pissed off to get shoved out into a nowhere dump like this.

Just judging by his charming demeanor (and for "charming," you should feel free to read "bloodcurdling and yet smarmy"), every other Kree ever?

Edited December 6, 2017 by Sandman

[paigow]

9 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

I don't think we're supposed to know who he is yet. His character is listed as "Enoch." He seems to be an alien,

 

He [or his friends] destroyed Earth and decided to fix it.... 

[blackwing]

Did they establish how far in the future this is?   The guy that looks like Bradley Cooper asked Coulson what year he came from.  But I don't recall that he told them what year it was.  Unless I spaced out.

I like shows/movies set in the future in space, but I am curious as to how far in the future they are, because there didn't seem to be an extreme amount of technological advances.   I like seeing the world building on shows like "The Expanse".  This one just seemed like it was filmed on an unused studio spaceship set.

[paigow]

22 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Did they establish how far in the future this is?   The guy that looks like Bradley Cooper asked Coulson what year he came from.  But I don't recall that he told them what year it was.  Unless I spaced out.

 

I heard 50 - 90 years in the future from Virgil....Coulson showed Tess a coin as proof he came from the past...

[blackwing]

47 minutes ago, paigow said:

I heard 50 - 90 years in the future from Virgil....Coulson showed Tess a coin as proof he came from the past...

Thanks.  I am guilty of washing dishes during shows so sometimes miss things.

Now I am curious if time travel is common in this era.  Because 50 years after the destruction of earth, they are still airing footage on TV of Daisy.  And Bradley Cooper immediately identified her as Daisy.  If I saw, say, Richard Nixon on the street today, I would assume that it's a guy that looks a lot like Richard Nixon or someone made up to resemble Richard Nixon.  I wouldn't assume he was THE Richard Nixon.   Bradley Cooper didn't even think twice, he immediately identified her.  Which makes me wonder how many others have time travelled in this world.

If its an alternate future, I wonder if there is some alt version of Grant Ward.  I just wish there was a way we could get back straight laced season 1 Grant Ward.

[Sandman]

Enoch reminded me a little of the Observers from Fringe -- though I think the Observers were actually human(ish), just weird and bald, not wearing a human skin suit. The scene of Enoch in the shower suggested his body-shape was radically different -- maybe a little like the traditional "Grey" conception of aliens? (It was a pretty vague silhouette, and I was a little skeeved out by the whole "Hey, I'm wearing a person as a suit!" thing. More body horror!)

Even though it was often way beyond my grossness-tolerances (speaking of body horror), I really miss Fringe sometimes.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Sandman
Yeah, I know he wasn't wearing an ACTUAL person -- but still...!

[paigow]

39 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Because 50 years after the destruction of earth, they are still airing footage on TV of Daisy.  And Bradley Cooper immediately identified her as Daisy.

The TV news is part of the Framework that was salvaged...Virgil and others like him believed in a "prophecy" that Coulson and SHIELD would save them. Enoch probably started this cult to give Coulson a better than zero chance of success.

[paigow]

Good to know that post-apocalyptic humans in the Marvel Comic Universe retained the ability to speak in complete sentences...unlike the Junkyard people in The Walking Dead

[Hanahope]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

I heard 50 - 90 years in the future from Virgil....Coulson showed Tess a coin as proof he came from the past...

I'm pretty sure Discount Star Lord said 90 years, because Coulson said there was no way the station was built in the 1920s.  The question is when did the station start being built, before or after Thanos arrives?  I agree that the earth being blown apart is somehow connected to the Avengers: Infinity Wars.  It also looked to me that the station was 'attached' to another big chunk of earth and made me wonder if the "space station" was actually originally built underground in earth.  I too don't think Daisey did the actual blowing up of earth, red herring to make her feel guilty for something she didn't do.

I was screaming at Jemma to reach for the grapes with her left hand.  But of course, she stupidly reaches with her right hand, when she knew she didn't have a metric, or a scar.

One has to wonder why the Kree are bothering with saving humans.  Why not just kill them all and be on your way?  What do humans really bring to the Kree?  Or is it just the power trip of Kasius?  Maybe we'll find out the reason the humans are still alive in future episodes.

I agree with the complaint over dark scenes.  It means I can only watch the show on one of my TVs because the other one is older and isn't as good for scenes shot in the dark, and so I have to wait several days to watch, when that TV is free (i.e. hubby isn't watching sports).  It affects several shows and I really hate it.

And what is the role of the alien that kidnapped and zapped them to the future in the first place?

[Raja]

25 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I'm pretty sure Discount Star Lord said 90 years, because Coulson said there was no way the station was built in the 1920s.  The question is when did the station start being built, before or after Thanos arrives?  I agree that the earth being blown apart is somehow connected to the Avengers: Infinity Wars.  It also looked to me that the station was 'attached' to another big chunk of earth and made me wonder if the "space station" was actually originally built underground in earth.  I too don't think Daisey did the actual blowing up of earth, red herring to make her feel guilty for something she didn't do.

I was screaming at Jemma to reach for the grapes with her left hand.  But of course, she stupidly reaches with her right hand, when she knew she didn't have a metric, or a scar.

One has to wonder why the Kree are bothering with saving humans.  Why not just kill them all and be on your way?  What do humans really bring to the Kree?  Or is it just the power trip of Kasius?  Maybe we'll find out the reason the humans are still alive in future episodes.

I agree with the complaint over dark scenes.  It means I can only watch the show on one of my TVs because the other one is older and isn't as good for scenes shot in the dark, and so I have to wait several days to watch, when that TV is free (i.e. hubby isn't watching sports).  It affects several shows and I really hate it.

And what is the role of the alien that kidnapped and zapped them to the future in the first place?

The entire line about the Kree wanting submission just sounds like a different theology than those who looked at Asgardians as gods. It may be no more than a Kree of Kasius social class just gets off on having human slave/worshipers. As to making Daisy feel  guilt I will go with Deke just having incomplete evidence and taking a theoretical leap.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 03/12/2017 at 6:42 AM, AngelKitty said:

Well, I loved it. It has everything I love: space, time travel, dystopian future, aliens, plus I do love these characters. I was sad when the episodes ended because I wanted more. Can't wait till next week.

It feels like they figured they knew this was probably their last season so they would go nuts and throw every standard  sci-fi plotline that they haven't used at the screen to see how it goes. Like you said they had space, time travel, the post-apocalyptic future alien invasion and the whole legendary chosen saviors thing. Not sure if I like it yet though.

[ahisma]

My favorite thing was having to explain to someone space-born that sharknados were not a real thing. Coulson might have let her go on believing it, if he'd been there—it's the kind of schlocky pop culture thing he not-so-secretly loves.

[Sandman]

On 12/4/2017 at 1:37 PM, Raja said:

If I am remembering the Lady Sif appearances correctly earth was under Asgardian protection

Unfortunately, if the latest Thor movie is anything to go by, the Earth's being a protectorate of "Ass-berg" apparently means exactly squat. (Do I sound like a grumpy fanboy if I say that I thought Thor: Turns Out Odin's Just Another Gross Douchebag was mostly terrible, and I never need to see Jeff Goldblum again onscreen ever?)

[Quark]

That was nuts. Still trying to process things.

I do wonder if any of these new characters might be descendants of the guys that came from the past. When Coulson was looking around Virgil's room I was thinking that Virgil could be a grandson or something...

[AKA...CJ86]

Only through Part One...

As usual, Mack and Yo-Yo are my MVPs.

Before the reveal, I was almost hoping the "roaches" were going to be a Brood reveal... but I'm not sure about those, you know, pesky rights and stuff.

I could take space, and even loved it's the one thing we haven't done yet... but space and future?  I'm in no matter what.

[LilJen]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:05 PM, dkb said:

^^^ This is me.

I don't know what this is yet, so I can give this season a couple of more episodes before I decide if I wanna keep watching.

 

I wonder who their guests will be? More Kree? or something else.

I say the visiting ship is full of LMDs, two of whom are Aida and Fitz.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I know I ranted quite a bit about the whole Framework arc but compared to this season premiere it was Emmy-worthy television. Let's torment our heroes some more (including ever increasing amounts of quite literal torture). They just got out of a simulation ruled by freaking Hydra, give them a break. Reminds of the more famous Whedon making Buffy the Vampire Slayer ever darker and ever more boring in the final seasons. Heaping random tragedy on the characters is not good drama. When Jemma was enslaved, instead of feeling sad I rolled my eyes, same with the torture of May and then of Yo-yo. I like all of those characters, don't get me wrong, I am just not a fan of unrelenting misery unless the story and/or character development is great and there is no such thing in AoS, not by a long shot. This show needs lots and lots of lighthearted moments to hide all the gaping plot holes and plot contrivances.

The Kree already bore me to tears - and they speak perfect English somehow? May piloting the spaceship through all those debris did make me laugh... too bad it was unintentional comedy.

Most importantly, why should I care about all these characters from the future when it's all but certain that at some point the protagonists will go back to their timeline and prevent this timeline from ever happening in the first place? I am seriously considering skipping all the episodes taking place in the future or even dropping the show altogether. Sorry, Elizabeth Henstridge, Ming-Na Wen and Henry Simmons, but even your terrific acting couldn't save this boring story from being, well, boring (especially when you can barely see the characters' faces half the time because apparently dark means art).

[swanpride]

There are universal translators in the MCU. All aliens are able to talk with each other.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

There are universal translators in the MCU. All aliens are able to talk with each other.

Are you suggesting that people complain about the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.  doing what Thor, the Avengers and the Guardians of The Galaxy also do 😁

[Jack Shaftoe]

I am well aware of the universal translators trope, I just find it silly outside of stories which run on the rule of funny like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And even there people needed babel fish in their ears for the trick to work. To my recollection AoS has never mentioned anything about the agents being equipped with devices like that. It's hard to sell the alienness of aliens when they look exactly like blue humans and speak perfect English.

[swanpride]

Ist the same universe, so the rules are pretty much the same. And that includes the rules for time-travel, btw, which makes your last point kind of mood. Plus, even if you are right and the future will vanish, the characters will still change experiencing it. Just like they changed by experiencing the framework.