S04.E08: Live. Live. Live.

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, and a pregnant woman carrying a gun!  OMG.  I've been trained in firearms and I wouldn't do that while pregnant.  

I wouldn't do it at all.  Here in Chicago there was a story in the news about a thug that robbed a store at gunpoint   Stuffed his gun into the waistband of his pants and ran out   Tripped.  Gun discharged   He shot off the tip of his penis.   Cops found him lying in pain in a pool of blood.   Ouch.   Simon made an equally poor decision.  Michaela tried to convince him to give her the gun, and he butterfingered over a desk chair, oops.

This whole half season has been all about Laurel's poor choices.  It's been all about her.  Everything bad that has happened has been because of her.   I hated Wes and I was so glad when he died, but now I'm finding that one irritant has been simply replaced by another.  She is eating the show and I wouldn't at all mind if she died in the season finale.

[Chairperson Meow]

I thought that Annelise saw her own dead baby in Wes Jr.  It was a great hour of tv, but I don't think it was like a normal HTGAWM fall finale.  Considering season 1 had who killed Sam, season 2 had Wes shoot Annelise, and season 3 had dead Wes.... seeing minor character stalk Connor,  secondary character Simon accidentally kill himself,  and Asher get arrested.... meh.  The episode would work as an episode before the finale.  

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Here in Chicago there was a story in the news about a thug that robbed a store at gunpoint   Stuffed his gun into the waistband of his pants and ran out   Tripped.  Gun discharged   He shot off the tip of his penis. 

*Facepalm*

Smooth move there, genius. 

[Milaxx]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

So this shit show cut scenes. Let me guess, so there'd be more time for the Laurel show, yep.

They didn't cut scenes.  In the EW article it's explained that PN planned for 9 eps before the winter break and the they only aired 8. WE see the rest of the flashforward when the show returns in Jan.

[RedheadZombie]

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

I didn't understand that part of the plan either.  At some point, somebody is going to notice that Tegan's card accessed the server room, and that some data was downloaded (at least that's what I think happened, otherwise they could have just grabbed an entire hard drive and left).   It seemed like only that night that they decided to pin the blame on Simon.  How they were planning on explaining it before that decision?

And even after they decided to blame Simon... how would it have happened?  "I gave my purse to you Michaela."  "I had to go to the bathroom so I asked this guy that I totally hate to hold it for me, instead of my boyfriend or another woman at the office that I trust."   

How is it even possible that Simon might have even survived?   The nurse or somebody said the bullet went "through and through".  So it wasn't just a graze.  His face looked untouched.    And there was a lot of blood.  So he shot himself in the side of his head and he could have survived?  He still had a pulse.

Why couldn't Annalise get the elevator gate open?  Because it was locked from the inside?  Seems like a faulty design.  

Didnt we see Isaac at the hospital, receiving a call from Bonnie (using her fake name) and then he yelled "where are you?  She's here".  Is the "she" supposed to be Laurel?  If so, kind of anticlimactic.  I think it was supposed to make us think the "she" was the one shot?

All in all, not as suspenseful as the promo monkeys made me think.  It would have been more suspenseful if they had Nicholas start strangling Connor, or if they didn't have the baby cry.  I don't really care if Simon lives because I don't think there's any way it could be possible.

It's still possible the "she" is Annalise.  Maybe she temporarily goes "missing" when she's breaking down in the shower.  Maybe Isaac goes looking for Anna, discovers the bloody Laurel scene, and touches base with Bonnie.  Maybe he's referring to Michaela who's in a daze, still wondering around covered in blood?  Maybe it's his ex?  Who knows?  They like to bait and switch on this show.

Isaac saying Laurel has "drugs in her system" is probably referring to an emergency surgery.  She's was hemorrhaging and probably had an emergency D&C, or even hysterectomy.

I'm another who liked Simon.  He was snarky, but it was him versus the Keating 4-5.  I like the actor.  They ruined his life like they do everyone they touch.  No blaming Wes for this one since he's dead, although some will try.  Guess Laurel is the new whipping dog to blame for everything.

I find it hard to believe they'd arrest Asher before even talking to witness Michaela.  Asher was always bad at lying, maybe he implicated himself with his nervous babbling?

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I thought Michaela was in shock.  What do you think she should have done?  

I don't that was an Annalise level performance. She had the presence of mind to tell Connor what happened and to get out of there. In fact all of the Keating hang with the exception of Oliver are showing the lessons they learned from AK. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

29 minutes ago, blackwing said:

We also got the explanation of the previously seen but not last night scene of Annalise sitting fully clothed in her shower.  She must have been physically and emotionally drained from saving Laurel's baby.  Of course though, I believe the shower scene was meant to make us think she was the murderess.

I wish PN could have worked a deal with ABC once they realized the goof. There are a lot of hanging threads that should have been wrapped up that we now have to wait to get the answer to in January.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

10 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Isaac saying Laurel has "drugs in her system" is probably referring to an emergency surgery.  She's was hemorrhaging and probably had an emergency D&C, or even hysterectomy.

I'm going to assume for now that this is part of the scenes we didn't see. It's the nurse at the hospital who tells Isaac she was found with drugs in her system. My question is did someone get there before the ambulance arrived and drug Laurel for some reason but didn't have time to do anything else before the ambulance arrived? Micheal is in from of the maternity unit, but an infant born at 7 month s under normal circumstances would need a NICU and Lil Waitlist was anything but normal. Do we know where the baby is?

FY{ - The baby looks brown on my tv so for the time being I'm assuming we're looking at Lil Waitlist. It is entirely possible that Laurel has some recessive genes kick in and the kid can be brown and still be Franks.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Milaxx

[HunterHunted]

50 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I find it hard to believe they'd arrest Asher before even talking to witness Michaela.  Asher was always bad at lying, maybe he implicated himself with his nervous babbling?

Even before testing for gun shot residue, checking for fingerprints, talking to witnesses, or doing anything that reasonably resembles police work. However, that is fairly consistent with this show. They don't know whose gun it was or if there was a struggle. It's so typical of this show's cartoonish and lazy approach to everything. Rather than come up with emotional or personal reasons that certain things happen, the show uses lazily crafted plot to get emotional results. They want the characters to be upset that Asher was arrested. Instead of realizing that Asher probably babbled himself into suspicion, heck his first instinct was to pick up the gun, the show will probably have Asher railroaded through the system for no good reason.

[blackwing]

15 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

Honestly, I don't get why people are so annoyed by Laurel and Wes. They drove/drive the show, without them and their obsessive behavior there wouldn't have been much of a show to build around and that would IMHO not been very interesting. 

Well, that's exactly why I dislike them.  For some reason, the writers chose to have Wes eat the great majority of the first two seasons.  He was the show's special snowflake.  Pretty much every storyline seemed to revolve around or tie to him.  I think he and Laurel could win the award for Most Boring Couple Ever.  Zero chemistry.   Now that he is dead, it's all about her.  You say that they drive/drove the show, but if they hadn't been shoved in my face so much, I don't think I'd dislike them so much.  The show could have been more equal in who got focused.  It's not just about airtime, it's about who is central to the story.  And this season, everything has been tied to Laurel and her quest for vengeance for Wes.

[Keepitmoving]

I'm just tired of Laurel, and annoyed that she is elevated to a central focus that does not seem like it will end. I'm annoyed that Anna can find a way to give a shit about Connor, Laurel, Wes, but doesn't give the same level of shit about Mickey and Asher, and Asher out of all if them is ready in a hot minute to beat someone's ass for Anna. And before it even goes there they've all said some shit to and about Anna, so Mickey does not stand alone in that area. Yet all Anna cared about was securing Laurel, she didn't ask shit about anyone else.  Oh lord this show is on a very short leash. I am sick and tired of certain characters, getting all this care, concern and protection, while others do not.  I can't tell you how livid I was to see Mickey once again, tending to Laurel , yet Fucking PN couldn't let me see her tending to or running after the man that loves her while the cops were taking him away. Get the hell out of here. Fucking Laurel, she's not Michaela's friend, she doesn't love her, but Asher sure as hell is trying to flawed and all, but he's trying. She's never been written to give a shit about Michaela. Yeah, I really can't stand PN, just like I grew to not like his mentor, cause she use to do the same shit to the character I loved on her show,same shit.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Star Aristille]

7 hours ago, Neurochick said:

never liked Simon anyway, so I won't miss him, yes I'm a terrible person.

Thanks for admitting it, because that's just disgusting.

Really, though, Simon's death, if he does die, is on Asher, IMO, for changing the plan without a warning and for no other reason that he admitted his feelings for Oliver.  If they'd just stayed the course, everything would've been fine.

[RedheadZombie]

7 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't know why she thought a gun would make anything go smoothly. These nitwits have managed to kill a fuckton of people with nary a gun in sight.

Sam--gravity and a trophy

Lila--strangled 

Rebecca--strangled 

Sinclair--car

I'm sure I'm missing some deaths. What do these assholes need a damn gun for?

Personally, I've never had a gun, nor wanted one.  I surely wouldn't carry a gun, but my good friend does (I hate it).  Since Laurel's father is a bad guy who puts out hits on people, I'm sure Laurel was raised in the gun culture.  She may come from a family who has their children firing semi-automatics when they're five *shiver*.  Maybe she feels her father would kill her if he thought she was pregnant with Wes's baby.  She hid it from him for a reason.  

But the most likely reason is they wanted Simon dead, and our people innocent of it - for once.  It would have been a lot harder for Simon to accidentally kill himself with a trophy,strangulation, running over himself with a car, or suffocating himself, which is how I believe Rebecca was killed. 

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, and a pregnant woman carrying a gun!  OMG.  I've been trained in firearms and I wouldn't do that while pregnant.  

I would never carry a gun myself, pregnant or not.  But I read a study a while back that said a pregnant woman's most likely cause of death is murder.  Laurel knows her father murdered Wes, and who knows what he would do to her if he figured out she knew it.  Someone who knows what they're doing could safely carry a gun.  I hate guns, but it's silly to make it look so easy to shoot yourself in the head.  Even I wouldn't do that, and I fear guns.

[Empress1]

16 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Personally, I've never had a gun, nor wanted one.  I surely wouldn't carry a gun, but my good friend does (I hate it).  Since Laurel's father is a bad guy who puts out hits on people, I'm sure Laurel was raised in the gun culture.  She may come from a family who has their children firing semi-automatics when they're five *shiver*.  

I remember Laurel saying she was kidnapped as a teen (her father waited to pay the ransom), so it’s not far-fetched to me that she might take steps to protect herself.

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I didn't understand that part of the plan either.  At some point, somebody is going to notice that Tegan's card accessed the server room, and that some data was downloaded (at least that's what I think happened, otherwise they could have just grabbed an entire hard drive and left).   It seemed like only that night that they decided to pin the blame on Simon.  How they were planning on explaining it before that decision?

They had been trying to come up with a plan to get into the room that didn't involve using Tegan's card, but couldn't figure it out. The idea was use it without her knowing, but then she'd be blamed. Last week Oliver suggested they steal her card, but then pin the theft on Simon.  Which wasn't a terrible idea logistically (just morally). However, the execution made no sense. The timing of the access would show it was while Tegan was giving the speech. Tegan would know she gave her purse to Michaela who was watching the speech.  So even if they plant the card on Simon, Michalea has to explain how Simon got the card. And if Simon hadn't have died he would have known he didn't steal the card and not let it go.

5 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

PN, I'm not interested in the least bit in seeing Mickey become Anna, not one damn bit. 

Next, this is some dumb shit, NOT one of them, NOT a damn one of them is responsible for Simons's death. So why the fuck is Asher in jail? 

Back in season 1 they brought up that if someone dies while you were committing a crime, it is felony murder. These people were all committing a crime, Laurel brought an unregistered gun to a workplace, so they are  responsible for his death in some way.

But the police don't know that, so I'm not sure why Asher got arrested, unless someone remembers his association with a bunch of other past murders and made an assumption he's guilty. It didn't seem like they had time to coordinate their stories, so if Oliver/Asher/Michaela gave contradictory stories that would raise suspicion. It didn't seem like they'd talked to anyone else yet though.

Or maybe there was a hidden security camera.

[secnarf]

21 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

When Michaela wiped the fingerprints off the gun, she wiped Simon's fingerprints off too. They should have put his hand on it or something. Of course they will suspect foul play if they don't get any fingerprints.  What does it say about me that that's what I noticed?

Also, how were they planning on blaming Simon for stealing the card when Micahela was supposed to be holding it the whole time. Was she going to say she put the bag down after promising to watch it? It was a very dumb plan.

Yes, it looked like Wes's to me.

I agree about the fingerprints - that's exactly what I noticed too. They could have come up with a logical reason for Asher grabbing the gun. Laurel's fingerprints would be a bigger problem, as she would have touched the gun to put it in her purse (although any prints could have rubbed off inside the purse).

That baby looked like a newborn 30-weeker that is deprived of oxygen. They all have that darker, reddish-coloured skin at first. It doesn't have anything to do with the race of the parents. Laurel's child could easily be white, or mixed. It often takes a couple of days to start to see skin colouring (depending on the gestational age of the baby).

I'd also like to point out that should anyone ever have to do CPR on an infant, do *not* do what Annalise did. "Compression-only CPR" is not a thing for infants, because cardiac arrest in infants is much more likely to be secondary to respiratory distress. The breaths are important and at a much higher ratio than for adults. There are also different ways of doing compressions (you'd usually use your thumbs, with the rest of your fingers supporting the baby's back/head).

It's highly unlikely the child would have survived even with proper CPR; with CPR the way Annalise did it, it's impossible.
 

Regarding the rest of the episode, I am a bit frustrated that we didn't get all of the answers we were hoping for based on the flash forwards, and that we didn't get a "new mystery" for the second half, although I'm assuming that will all come in the next episode after the break. Laurel's plan was dumb and didn't have a shot in hell at working.

I did laugh at Oliver's "I've never seen a dead body before", in the context of this show.

[pennben]

Maybe for some idiotic reason Asher confessed to killing Simon or, less crazy, maybe confessed to grabbing the gun out of Simon's hand and they are holding him for tampering with evidence so they can test for gunshot residue? Otherwise, I'm also not seeing how there can be such a quick arrest, unless it's for something unrelated. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I'd also like to point out that should anyone ever have to do CPR on an infant, do *not* do what Annalise did. "Compression-only CPR" is not a thing for infants, because cardiac arrest in infants is much more likely to be secondary to respiratory distress. The breaths are important and at a much higher ratio than for adults. There are also different ways of doing compressions (you'd usually use your thumbs, with the rest of your fingers supporting the baby's back/head).

It's highly unlikely the child would have survived even with proper CPR; with CPR the way Annalise did it, it's impossible.

I was actually wondering how accurate all of that CPR stuff was in that scene. Thanks for the info on how it's really done. 

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

This whole half season has been all about Laurel's poor choices.  It's been all about her.  Everything bad that has happened has been because of her.   I hated Wes and I was so glad when he died, but now I'm finding that one irritant has been simply replaced by another.  She is eating the show and I wouldn't at all mind if she died in the season finale.

Honestly, I don't get why people are so annoyed by Laurel and Wes. They drove/drive the show, without them and their obsessive behavior there wouldn't have been much of a show to build around and that would IMHO not been very interesting. I would get it if Laurel and Wes made poor choices that were out of character for them, but I think their choices always made sense, considering what they have been through and who they lost. And yes, they did act poorly in a lot of situations and yes, they were caught up in their own drama, but I think that made for some very suspenseful television.

I know Wes is a persona; fav for many  and honestly many of us have our own favs, but for me Viola/Annalise drove the show.  The Sam murder is what tied them together.  Saving Rebecca never made one lick of sense and the actors had zero chemistry together. Still Wes never annoyed me as much as Laurel. 

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

  4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I find it hard to believe they'd arrest Asher before even talking to witness Michaela.  Asher was always bad at lying, maybe he implicated himself with his nervous babbling?

I think Asher said something to get himself arrested My guess is this was his falling on the sword move.

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I remember Laurel saying she was kidnapped as a teen (her father waited to pay the ransom), so it’s not far-fetched to me that she might take steps to protect herself.

Laurel bought that gun last season. She was going to kill/threaten Charles Mahooney with it. It was always about revenge.

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

They had been trying to come up with a plan to get into the room that didn't involve using Tegan's card, but couldn't figure it out. The idea was use it without her knowing, but then she'd be blamed. Last week Oliver suggested they steal her card, but then pin the theft on Simon.  Which wasn't a terrible idea logistically (just morally). However, the execution made no sense. The timing of the access would show it was while Tegan was giving the speech. Tegan would know she gave her purse to Michaela who was watching the speech.  So even if they plant the card on Simon, Michalea has to explain how Simon got the card. And if Simon hadn't have died he would have known he didn't steal the card and not let it go.

Oliver came up with the idea to set him up as a whistle blower and have him use that to apply for his visa. Frank even planted the evidence on his computer.  Since Simon was dead (or we're to assume he's dead, I guess they decided to plant the card on him.  Micheal can always lie and say Simon bumped into her and she dropped Tegan's purse & Simon must have grabbed the card then. The problem is if Simon is not dead.

9 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I'd also like to point out that should anyone ever have to do CPR on an infant, do *not* do what Annalise did. "Compression-only CPR" is not a thing for infants, because cardiac arrest in infants is much more likely to be secondary to respiratory distress. The breaths are important and at a much higher ratio than for adults. There are also different ways of doing compressions (you'd usually use your thumbs, with the rest of your fingers supporting the baby's back/head).

I was literally yelling at the tv "Sweep the airway!" the tv "Sweep the airway!" 

 

13 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I did laugh at Oliver's "I've never seen a dead body before", in the context of this show.

I hope they come back to that. It's important distinction for Oliver who only just found out about all their murderous activities.  The K4 have been knee deep in blood and body parts many times.  Oliver has only heard about their exploits

.

[blackwing]

16 minutes ago, pennben said:

Maybe for some idiotic reason Asher confessed to killing Simon or, less crazy, maybe confessed to grabbing the gun out of Simon's hand and they are holding him for tampering with evidence so they can test for gunshot residue? Otherwise, I'm also not seeing how there can be such a quick arrest, unless it's for something unrelated. 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he made a confession or an admission because he is trying to protect Michaela.  She was the one who reached for the gun, she is the one who had blood spatter all over her.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Back in season 1 they brought up that if someone dies while you were committing a crime, it is felony murder. These people were all committing a crime, Laurel brought an unregistered gun to a workplace, so they are  responsible for his death in some way.

No they are not. The crime was not an act of violence first off, and that fool grabbed a woman's bag, took her gun out and proceeded to point it at her and the rest of them. If any of them are guilty it's Laurel because that's her damn gun, not Michaela's, not Asher's and not Oliver's. And Laurel isn't guilty either, even though I can't stand her ass, no way, especially with him going for her purse and taking that gun out. Although, I think she said the gun wasn't licensed so...that's a problem.

In terms of Asher getting arrested, maybe  some of the people at the party remember him getting up in Simon's face when he lost his temper at the C & G meet and greet or interview party that they went to. That and him saying something stupid and acting nervous when they started questioning him.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

I keep forgetting to mention the foolishness of Annalise knowing her history with Sam and yet  agreeing to continue with Isaac for therapy I mean it's obvious there's an attraction that goes beyond wanting her to get better. I guess we''ll get more of that messiness in the second half of the season.

[apn85]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

That baby looked like a newborn 30-weeker that is deprived of oxygen. They all have that darker, reddish-coloured skin at first. It doesn't have anything to do with the race of the parents. Laurel's child could easily be white, or mixed. It often takes a couple of days to start to see skin colouring (depending on the gestational age of the baby).

This is where I was when it came to baby's appearance. I thought it was meant to be more ambiguous (and as someone else already said - a pilfered baby off the GA set, LOL) - when he was still in the elevator under that lighting he looked lighter. Once Annalise had him out with her, and the lighting changed, he looked darker. I don't think it was Nowalk's intention for us to be able to tell one way or the other. Also, in the few print interviews I read that Nowalk did, he was still keeping the paternity issue under wraps. I think if he had intended for the fake baby to resemble one guy or the other, he wouldn't have been secretive about it in interviews. Again, it very well may be Wes's baby, but I'm not tossing Frank off the table just yet. 

And yes, it is extremely unlikely the baby would have survived. The CPR thing has been covered above, but to add to that, he would be hypovolemic as he was losing blood through his umbilical cord as Laurel was losing it. Which that decreases his chances of survival even more without that lost volume being replaced pretty rapidly. I also don't understand how he was born in the first place, honestly. I assume a placental abruption is what they were showing us. That doesn't go hand in hand with the spontaneous delivery of the baby. I honestly thought when Annalise got the elevator open they were going the route of her having to cut him out herself and I was surprised when we saw him already out. 

[Blue Plastic]

Aw, I'm disappointed.  Perhaps this finale was better than the stupid and disappointing Hapstall season, but that's not saying much.  Everything here relied too much on coincidence or TV tropes.  It was not tightly plotted and had too many holes to be enjoyable.  I really feel like I'm a pretty uncritical viewer, actually.  If I like the drama and story and characters, I will forgive a lot and overlook or not even notice some plot holes like the timeline not making sense, for instance or a plot point not being realistic.  But not this time.

Really, Simon trips over a chair at a crucial moment and accidentally shoots himself?  And not only that, but his arm goes back far enough to shoot himself in the side or back of the head - really? - because there was no visible wound showing as he lay there on the floor.  I could be wrong but would have expected an accidental shot to be more likely to go "forward" and hit one of the others or to hit the front of his body or head, not the back.  Anybody know?

Laurel just happens to get hit hard enough in the abdomen earlier in the episode to cause delayed premature labor?  I don't know the medical likelihood of that but the "punch" didn't seem that hard.  Plus then she just so happens to get stuck in an elevator (TV trope) and then the baby manages to slide all the way out of her super handy like so Annalise can reach it and save its life?  And then, even though it's been oxygen deprived and prematurely ejected, it cries super loud after being resuscitated.  No lung problems or anything.

Then of course there's Dominic perfectly poised to overhear Connor's conversation.

As others have said, how is Simon supposed to have gotten the key card out of the purse without any culpability on Michaela's part since she was supposed to be guarding it?  How were they going to get out of that?

Also disappointed that they didn't manage to get back around to the flashback/teaser scenes with Laurel asking where her baby is and Michaela leaning on a very suspiciously acting Isaac.  It's not making sense how Isaac even knows any of the K4 or Frank.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Blue Plastic said:

Really, Simon trips over a chair at a crucial moment and accidentally shoots himself? 

I honestly expected Simon and one of the others to wrestle over the gun and have it accidentally go off, with nobody entirely sure who pulled the trigger. I think that would've made things far more tense, and would've made for a much more valid reason for everyone to worry about their fingerprints being on the gun. 

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Blue Plastic said:

As others have said, how is Simon supposed to have gotten the key card out of the purse without any culpability on Michaela's part since she was supposed to be guarding it?  How were they going to get out of that?

That’s the easy part. Michaela lies and says she bumped into him & dropped the purse. Simon palmed the key card when she was picking everything up. The trick would have been ho to get Simon to go along with that lie. In a way having Oliver kiss him might have helped. Oli could use Simon’s crush on him as a way to get him to cooperate. 

[possibilities]

They're law students AND experienced in serious felonies. If Asher talked at all without a lawyer, that's utterly insane. He knew better than that the last time he was accused of something.

I think if Laurel was that scared of her father, no way would she go to the party, since she knows he and all his henchmen would be there.

Carrying an unregistered gun shows she has more than self-defense in mind. If all you want is to protect yourself, you register it.

Connor seems to me to be in serious jeopardy with Dominic lurking in the hall. Why was Connor talking in the hall, though, instead of going inside?

I lived in a building with one of those types of elevators. You can't open the door from the inside if it's not stopped in exactly the right spot. It's a lock feature so no one gets hurt in between floors. It's also crazy as hell-- where Anna's living must be even more of a dump than it looks. The elevator I lived with like that was out of date and dangerous 30 years ago.

I think they were counting on no one believing Simon if he denied Michaela's story about him palming the card. Once the "stolen files" were found on his computer, his credibility would be shot, plus Michaela was Tegan's favorite. I think, from what Oliver said before the gun went off, that they were hoping Simon would go along anyway, because supposedly, according to Oliver, being a whistleblower could help with his immigration status and make him a hero in some way. But given how guilty Oliver was feeling, it's hard to buy that he actually believes what they are doing is going to help Simon rather than destroy him.

[Milaxx]

Just realized Laurel never removed her underwear. That must be some kind of super premie 

19 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Connor seems to me to be in serious jeopardy with Dominic lurking in the hall. Why was Connor talking in the hall, though, instead of going inside?

That my biggest fear. Didn’t Dominic see Connor running away the night of the fire?

[Blue Plastic]

39 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think they were counting on no one believing Simon if he denied Michaela's story about him palming the card. Once the "stolen files" were found on his computer, his credibility would be shot, plus Michaela was Tegan's favorite. I think, from what Oliver said before the gun went off, that they were hoping Simon would go along anyway, because supposedly, according to Oliver, being a whistleblower could help with his immigration status and make him a hero in some way. But given how guilty Oliver was feeling, it's hard to buy that he actually believes what they are doing is going to help Simon rather than destroy him.

Yeah, that's what I thought.  Simon was just going to be framed for taking and using the key card.  I'm not sure that if that "whistleblower clause" would work IRL as a way for a DACA immigrant to get full citizenship or if that is just something the show pulled out of its ass, but whatever.  Presumably K4 + Oliver were expecting Simon to think of using it to his advantage on his own.  It just doesn't make any sense.  They were originally planning to plant the card on Simon's non-dead body, right?  But still, Michaela would have to claim that she dropped the clutch and Simon got hold of the card without her noticing.  Surely Tegan would see that as careless on Michaela's part - she seems like kind of a hard ass that expects perfection out of herself and everyone else.

The baby looked too fake for me to be caught up in the drama of resuscitating it.

Am still confused about Jorge's reason for killing Wes.  I think they glossed over this a couple of episodes ago and it flew right over my head.  Wes was going to turn everyone else in right when Jorge was getting ready to take his company public, so...kill Wes and profit?  I don't get it.  Why would Laurel et al getting in trouble with the police affect Antares?  None of this makes any sense.  They might as well have blamed it on some other random Hapstall cousin for all the sense it makes.  I'm still waiting to find out what was really going on with the Mahoneys!  :/

Edited November 18, 2017 by Blue Plastic
remove a "not"

[apn85]

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Just realized Laurel never removed her underwear. That must be some kind of super premie 

OMG, I totally thought this as I was watching but would have never said anything. I am SO glad you did, LOL! I was like, "Well, I guess she was sans underwear or he moved those out of the way on his way out." If he's Frank's he can probably already pick locks, carry out extortion, frame someone for murder, etc. Him deciding it was time to exit and doing so should be a piece of cake! :P 

 

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think if Laurel was that scared of her father, no way would she go to the party, since she knows he and all his henchmen would be there

This has been the problem all along. I think despite knowing what a terrible person he is, she doesn't believe he'd ever hurt her. I think that is why she's been so careless. Well, one of the reasons. I think she's underestimated him this whole time and I think he's always been a couple steps ahead. Hell, even Frank tried to tell her it'd never work. When she told him the plan he said, "And they'll go to jail? Just like that?" She listens to no one. 

I'm ready to see what happens at the hotel. The event that turns it into a crime scene where Bonnie was walking in as cops are standing all around and looks at the elevator. And you hear on the radio Annalise is missing and is a person of interest. Someone swipes that poor baby (nevermind he needed a NICU asap) and who knows. I swear if we have to spend the rest of the season looking for him, I'll flip my lid. Hell, he's a baby! How hard is it to just keep up with him?? 

[Milaxx]

7 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Am still confused about Jorge's reason for killing Wes.  I think they glossed over this a couple of episodes ago and it flew right over my head.  Wes was going to turn everyone else in right when Jorge was getting ready to take his company public, so...kill Wes and profit?  I don't get it.  Why would Laurel et al getting in trouble with the police affect Antares?  None of this makes any sense.  They might as well have blamed it on some other random Hapstall cousin for all the sense it makes.  I'm still waiting to find out what was really going on with the Mahoneys!  :/

Because the bad press of his daughter being involved in so many murders and bad stuff would  create such negative press coming out as the stick goes public, it  would tank the stock market value of the company. In  episode 4.6 Tegan literally says, " Any bad press before then and it could tank the whole deal. Billions in the toilet. but if it all goes well...." 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

4 hours ago, apn85 said:

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think if Laurel was that scared of her father, no way would she go to the party, since she knows he and all his henchmen would be there

This has been the problem all along. I think despite knowing what a terrible person he is, she doesn't believe he'd ever hurt her. I think that is why she's been so careless. Well, one of the reasons. I think she's underestimated him this whole time and I think he's always been a couple steps ahead. Hell, even Frank tried to tell her it'd never work. When she told him the plan he said, "And they'll go to jail? Just like that?" She listens to no one. 

I'm ready to see what happens at the hotel. The event that turns it into a crime scene where Bonnie was walking in as cops are standing all around and looks at the elevator. And you hear on the radio Annalise is missing and is a person of interest. Someone swipes that poor baby (nevermind he needed a NICU asap) and who knows. I swear if we have to spend the rest of the season looking for him, I'll flip my lid. Hell, he's a baby! How hard is it to just keep up with him?? 

I kind of imagine(hope) that's how they'll  deal with the whole baby situation.  Daddy Castillo kidnaps the baby and uses him as a threat to keep Laurel in line. I'm not really interested in an ongoing baby presence on the show.  A missing baby keeps all the storytelling centered on Laurel.  Another dead baby just adds to the sadness of Bonnie & Annalise.  Although, it could reconcile Annalise & Laurel since they will both have lost their child at the hands of a bad person. I dunno, I'll pose that question in the speculation thread.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Milaxx

[secnarf]

17 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Just realized Laurel never removed her underwear. That must be some kind of super premie

Not really - a thin piece of fabric in the way isn't going to stop a baby from being born. The underwear would just slide down with the baby coming out.

Or, Laurel a) removed it when the camera was not on her or b) was not wearing underwear at all that night (a bit odd for a pregnant woman).

[Joimiaroxeu]

I dunno about those viewer warnings. I feel like this episode zoomed past "graphic" and soared right up into the "horrific" stratosphere.

Why did Asher get arrested? Is he taking the fall assuming that Annalise will work her defense attorney magic?

Quote

I swore Nate and Bonnie were going to sleep together. It's still a possibility.

Yeah, especially now that we know it's Bonnie's MO wrt Annalise. Not sure Nate would go along though. He doesn't seem that desperate.

Quote

Yes, it looked like Wes's to me.

Nah, it looked the spitting image of Frank to me.

Quote

Just realized Laurel never removed her underwear. That must be some kind of super premie  

That's nothing. On former daytime soap All My Children, a woman gave birth while clearly wearing pantyhose. (The actress had become extremely modest due to newfound religion and would not appear bare-legged even for the sake of realism.)

[Black Knight]

41 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yeah, especially now that we know it's Bonnie's MO wrt Annalise. Not sure Nate would go along though. He doesn't seem that desperate.

We don't know that. We only know that Annalise has always accused Bonnie of having sex, which has been one of the interesting things about the dynamic between the two women - she's rather obsessed with Bonnie having sex. And no, not just with men connected to her somehow - she also accused Bonnie of sleeping with a lawyer whom Annalise did not know at all (the one Bonnie recommended to represent Wes). Bonnie's involvement with Asher also had nothing to do with Annalise - Asher and Annalise didn't have much of a relationship during that time period. If Bonnie was going to single out one of Annalise's students on the basis of his connection to Annalise, back then Asher was about the last one she would have picked - it would have been Wes. But there was never a hint of that.

We saw the Bonnie/Isaac scenes and she never made a move on him. She did seem to have feelings for Sam, but she was his patient. Transference is a normal thing and probably had little to do with Annalise. She never moved on Sam, and when Sam actually finally made a physical move on her, Bonnie ran straight to Annalise. (I've always wondered how much of Annalise's blaming Bonnie and firing her for that was jealousy - not over Sam, but over Bonnie - and how much was unacknowledged guilt because Sam was the last therapist she should ever have recommended for Bonnie, given she knew he'd already crossed ethical boundaries with a patient once, with herself. I don't think Sam was fit to be anyone's therapist, but especially not for a woman who had been victimized by dozens of men, including her own father.) Bonnie and Frank was more about the fact that he killed her horrible father for her than anything else, and from what we were shown, Bonnie really was thinking of that whole thing more as a choice to break away from Annalise than to connect herself to Annalise more. But Frank bailed on her, so Bonnie went back to Annalise.

I could have lived without an entire segment devoted to Laurel giving birth in the elevator. Ugh. And I wish they hadn't shown Simon dead before they showed Simon shooting himself - the way it happened with the gun, it would have been a really amazing shock if they'd shown the latter cold.

Perhaps the thing I'm most curious about for the next episode is how/why Michaela and Isaac know each other, because as of this point in the timeline, they still haven't met, and there's so little time left now before the hospital scenes. I feel like Isaac's ex-wife has something more to do with all this. Hiring Kathryn Erbe just to be the ex-wife would be a waste.

The actress playing Tegan is such a good addition to the cast. Her whole speech was just show filler to intersperse with the gang breaking into the server room, and yet I enjoyed watching her deliver all of it.

Why does nobody from the group really grapple with the fact that Wes was killed because he was going to rat on all of them, his girlfriend Laurel included? It doesn't justify his murder, but you'd think they'd be a little less "We have to do this for Wes!" as a result. He chose to betray them all to cut an immunity deal for himself, which is rich considering that the original Rebecca fiasco was almost entirely his doing.

[Milaxx]

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

We saw the Bonnie/Isaac scenes and she never made a move on him. She did seem to have feelings for Sam, but she was his patient. Transference is a normal thing and probably had little to do with Annalise. She never moved on Sam, and when Sam actually finally made a physical move on her, Bonnie ran straight to Annalise. (I've always wondered how much of Annalise's blaming Bonnie and firing her for that was jealousy - not over Sam, but over Bonnie - and how much was unacknowledged guilt because Sam was the last therapist she should ever have recommended for Bonnie, given she knew he'd already crossed ethical boundaries with a patient once, with herself. I don't think Sam was fit to be anyone's therapist, but especially not for a woman who had been victimized by dozens of men, including her own father.)

I think Annalise was still in denial about Sam's pattern of inappropriate behavior with his patients at that point, however I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment. Bonnie is right there are unresolved issues between Bonnie & Annalise.  I may be erotic/romantic but I think it's mostly just a dysfunctional codependency based on their childhood trauma of sexual abuse. 

 

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Why does nobody from the group really grapple with the fact that Wes was killed because he was going to rat on all of them, his girlfriend Laurel included? It doesn't justify his murder, but you'd think they'd be a little less "We have to do this for Wes!" as a result. He chose to betray them all to cut an immunity deal for himself, which is rich considering that the original Rebecca fiasco was almost entirely his doing.

I think they are in denial that that was what Wes was going to do and using the fact that he left the police station before signing the immunity deal as proof that he wasn't going to do that. The way it's written with him calling that unknown ICE number and calling AK gives the writers a little wiggle room as well. 

[Black Knight]

23 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I think Annalise was still in denial about Sam's pattern of inappropriate behavior with his patients at that point, however I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment. Bonnie is right there are unresolved issues between Bonnie & Annalise.  I may be erotic/romantic but I think it's mostly just a dysfunctional codependency based on their childhood trauma of sexual abuse. 

I think they are in denial that that was what Wes was going to do and using the fact that he left the police station before signing the immunity deal as proof that he wasn't going to do that. The way it's written with him calling that unknown ICE number and calling AK gives the writers a little wiggle room as well. 

I think Annalise probably still is in denial, actually, but I did mention "unacknowledged" guilt, which I probably should have stated slightly differently - that is, "subconscious" was the better choice. As for Bonnie and Annalise's dynamic, I agree with Neurochick that it's a combination of all three of the possibilities (mother/child, friends, erotic/romantic). I don't think the erotic/romantic aspect is the dominant one, but it plays a part, especially on Annalise's side since she kissed Bonnie and is the one always going on about the other having sex and is the one who has been shown to be interested in women. For Bonnie I think it's more family, but she's willing to go along with Annalise. (Though I can't be sure what exactly she was saying with her speech to Annalise tonight about loving her...) Annalise seems to have a pattern of conflating mother/child and erotic/romantic especially, given that she also saw Wes as a surrogate child but was inappropriately handsy/sexual with him. Annalise and Bonnie both being sexually abused by adult relatives probably factors into their difficulty with defining their relationships with clear/appropriate boundaries. 

Good point about Wes. I actually thought last season that it would turn out to be one of the show's typical fake-outs, but after Laurel (apparently) figured out the motive this season and the showrunner commented how he thought previous seasons were too convoluted in the plotting, I've been thinking that we're to take Wes at face value. If the characters are taking his departure from the police station as evidence he wasn't turning, there really should be a line about that, considering it's the motive for his murder.

[Kira53]

 In season 2 episode 10, “What happened to you Annalise?” Annalise hallucinated a baby’s cry.  Maybe she did again and the baby is dead.  That will hurt.

 If the baby is alive; after it gets plenty of oxygen and gets all the blood washed off it’s probably going to look “Hispanic” meaning that it could be Wes’s baby or it could be what’s his name baby, I’m blanking on his name but he’s the cute psychopath that just aced his LSAT.  Frank.....  What I mean is that the baby will be maybe slightly tan which could mean anything. I think Frank would still want to be with LaUriel.

Annalise trying to get to the baby was horrific. I kept literally covering my eyes which is just not like me. I really enjoyed this episode.  I don’t care about the exact medical discrepancies or plot holes.  Viola brought it and the rest of the cast was very strong.  I hate waiting for the next episodes.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

We don't know that. We only know that Annalise has always accused Bonnie of having sex, which has been one of the interesting things about the dynamic between the two women - she's rather obsessed with Bonnie having sex. And no, not just with men connected to her somehow - she also accused Bonnie of sleeping with a lawyer whom Annalise did not know at all (the one Bonnie recommended to represent Wes). Bonnie's involvement with Asher also had nothing to do with Annalise - Asher and Annalise didn't have much of a relationship during that time period. If Bonnie was going to single out one of Annalise's students on the basis of his connection to Annalise, back then Asher was about the last one she would have picked - it would have been Wes. But there was never a hint of that.

I wasn't suggesting it was merely about sex. It appears that Bonnie uses men in Annalise's life to violate Annalise's boundaries and feel closer to her. There are ways to use people other than sleeping with them. And as far as which of Annalise's students to cull from the herd, Connor was a non-starter and Wes wouldn't have been vulnerable enough, if at all. Asher was clearly the easiest and weakest target. She may be feeling Nate out now but he's hardly a kid and can more readily see through her act. Their working together in a highly politicized and volatile workplace adds another layer of potential trouble that he may not be willing to cross--again. He may have learned his lessons after his experiences with Annalise and the former ADA he had been seeing.

[possibilities]

I thought Wes was going to confess, to end the destruction of Anna and protect everyone. I didn't think he was going to throw them all under the bus; I thought he was trying to save them.

When did Anna kiss Bonnie? I remember Bonnie kissing Anna, not the other way around.

[wanderingstar]

Bonnie and Annalise kissed in the season 3 winter finale, "Who's Dead?"

Edited November 19, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Milaxx]

15 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Good point about Wes. I actually thought last season that it would turn out to be one of the show's typical fake-outs, but after Laurel (apparently) figured out the motive this season and the showrunner commented how he thought previous seasons were too convoluted in the plotting, I've been thinking that we're to take Wes at face value. If the characters are taking his departure from the police station as evidence he wasn't turning, there really should be a line about that, considering it's the motive for his murder.

They thought Wes was planning to take the fall for them, much like Frank and then Connor tried to do. It's why they agonized over blaming Wes in order to get Connor back. They believed he was trying to protect them.

14 hours ago, Kira53 said:

 In season 2 episode 10, “What happened to you Annalise?” Annalise hallucinated a baby’s cry.  Maybe she did again and the baby is dead.  That will hurt.

That was an imaginary baby. This time the baby was real. There's still a chance the baby didn't make it, but for now I'm taking the fact that AK thene cradled the baby against herself as a sign that the baby is still alive.

13 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought Wes was going to confess, to end the destruction of Anna and protect everyone. I didn't think he was going to throw them all under the bus; I thought he was trying to save them.

When did Anna kiss Bonnie? I remember Bonnie kissing Anna, not the other way around.

After AK got drunk, she went to Bonnie's house. Bonnie tried to sober her up and put her to bed to sleep it off. AK reached up and kissed her.

[Black Knight]

But people don't get blanket immunity, as Wes was demanding and being given, unless they're agreeing to turn state's evidence against someone else that the state wants more. We saw Wes negotiating this last season, and we saw the moment again via flashback a couple of episodes ago when Laurel was explaining why her father ordered Wes's murder. So I'm still confused as to why the others would think Wes was intending to save them. If he was going to take the fall himself, there would have been no immunity agreement, just him giving a confession.

[possibilities]

Hmm. I remembered the kiss, but in my mind it had been Bonnie who initiated it.

RE Wes's immunity deal... I wish we had seen the text of the actual statement he was making. It's true he wouldn't have gotten blanket immunity if he was not providing them with valuable evidence, but it would have been nice to know exactly what he was actually saying, specifically. Was he actually going to tell ALL? Or...?

[secnarf]

17 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought Wes was going to confess, to end the destruction of Anna and protect everyone. I didn't think he was going to throw them all under the bus; I thought he was trying to save them.

He did mention blanket immunity for himself. I don't think he was going to confess without throwing somebody else under the bus. I also don't know if he ever intended to go through with the plea deal.

4 hours ago, Milaxx said:

That was an imaginary baby. This time the baby was real. There's still a chance the baby didn't make it, but for now I'm taking the fact that AK thene cradled the baby against herself as a sign that the baby is still alive.

We don't see Annalise cradling the baby against herself after the cry though. It was just a black screen when we heard the cry.

Regardless, I think in an interview, Pete Nowalk said

the cry was real

[helenamonster]

I thought this finale was a little "off" in its structure compared to other winter finales, so I'm glad to have the explanation that there was supposed to be another episode but they goofed on the scheduling. Cuz usually the winter finale answers the big question, and then immediately drops another one for us to mull over until January (also there are usually 9 episodes and then 6 on the back end). Although overall this whole half-season has been structured differently from the first three. Instead of one specific, overarching question (who killed Sam? who shot Annalise? who's dead?) this one just sort of threw a bunch of different scenes at us and we had to figure out how they all related. We thought the question was going to be where's the baby? but then so many other things happened that didn't seem to have anything to do with that so it's just been weird to get used to.

Laurel giving birth in that elevator was...something. Being stuck in a rickety old elevator with one of those old-fashioned doors you have to open yourself already pushed my anxiety buttons (I'm deeply claustrophobic and will climb six flights of stairs to avoid an elevator if I have to) but then being in her state, completely stuck with no way to get help except for screaming for it...damn. Props to Karla, and to Viola for her performance of Annalise trying to save Lil Waitlist/Lil Beard/Lil Wallflower. Idk what the hell happens between then and Laurel screaming for the baby in the hospital, though.

Not even mad about Simon being dead (maybe?). He was always a moron who desperately wanted to be one of the K5 and continuously took his insecurities out on them (which is not an excuse to be a dick, whatever you may think, Oliver). It was always him provoking and taunting them, never the other way around. He had no business going through Laurel's stuff and even if he did, who finds a gun in someone's bag and decides to wave it around? We can blame Laurel for bringing a gun in the first place (I like whoever had the speculation that Dominic called her and she brought it because she thought shit was gonna go down if he was in the city), but shooting himself in the head was on him. It's extremely easy to not do that. Don't touch the fucking gun!

I've never been more happy to be wrong than to see Tegan alive and well at the end of the episode. Phew!

Idk what else to say cuz everything else is tied up in speculation and questions that should have been answered before the holidays but for which we'll now have to wait. Lots of stuff not making sense so hopefully it's cleared up when we return in January.

Oh, except...Frank has been responsible for the death/near death of every fetus on this show. Just wanna throw that out there.

On 11/17/2017 at 0:25 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, I bet this firm seriously reconsiders if it's worth it to hire anymore interns. lol 

Literally every law firm/law-related enterprise in Philadelphia should avoid interns at this point. Or at least stop recruiting from Middleton.

[backgroundnoise]

On 11/17/2017 at 11:04 AM, Neurochick said:

I'm a bad person because when Simon shot himself I nearly laughed because it was so unexpected,

I'm worse than you because I did laugh, each of the four times I rewatched it.

Edited November 20, 2017 by backgroundnoise

[Black Knight]

42 minutes ago, possibilities said:

RE Wes's immunity deal... I wish we had seen the text of the actual statement he was making. It's true he wouldn't have gotten blanket immunity if he was not providing them with valuable evidence, but it would have been nice to know exactly what he was actually saying, specifically. Was he actually going to tell ALL? Or...?

I don't think a formal written statement exists. He would only have given that once the immunity agreement was finalized, not before. But of course he would've needed to at least verbally indicate what he'd be making a statement about and whom it'd implicate for them to agree to give him immunity. The DA has always wanted Annalise, so it's reasonable to assume that he at least told them he'd give them her.

I don't see, however, how he could only give them her, at least not without putting his precious immunity agreement at risk. If he's caught lying, his immunity agreement would be void. And he'd have to lie extensively, because Annalise didn't do a lot of the shit, and she especially didn't kill anyone. For her, that's the difference between some time in prison and a lifetime in prison, or even possibly death row. Expecting both that Annalise would stay completely quiet about anybody else's involvement given the difference it makes to her, and that nobody else in the group would break and help her, would be an unrealistic gamble on Wes's part. Connor has always felt the guiltiest of everyone, and Frank and Bonnie are obsessively devoted to Annalise, so that's three weak links right there. They'd probably turn around and say that Wes did everything and is trying to shift it off on Annalise, and it wouldn't be hard to get Asher and Michaela, at minimum, to back them up, since otherwise it means Asher going down for his murder of Sinclair.

I honestly don't really know what Wes intended to do, in the last hour of his life, and he's dead, so I don't know that we can ever get any more information about what he was thinking, unless that ICE call Milaxx mentioned comes back into play and they have a recording of him saying whatever it was he was finally going to do. My issue is more that the group certainly ought to at least think about the possibility he was going to throw them under the bus, given that there is evidence for that (the immunity agreement), and give the audience a few lines to explain why they have apparently ruled that out. At least one person in the group should be a skeptic, thus enabling that kind of discussion/debate. I get why Laurel would be pro-Wes since she was in love with him and wouldn't want to think that he would ever implicate her in anything, but he wasn't as close to the others. Michaela especially would consider it, I feel, since she always tries to look at all the angles.

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

But people don't get blanket immunity, as Wes was demanding and being given, unless they're agreeing to turn state's evidence against someone else that the state wants more. We saw Wes negotiating this last season, and we saw the moment again via flashback a couple of episodes ago when Laurel was explaining why her father ordered Wes's murder. So I'm still confused as to why the others would think Wes was intending to save them. If he was going to take the fall himself, there would have been no immunity agreement, just him giving a confession.

Immunity is something the K5 are used to using. . IIRC AK gotten them immunity before. As this season clearly demonstrates they have all picked up AK tricks and tools of the trade. It's why Wes knew to be very specific with his demands.  Demanding immunity is what got Connor kidnapped to begin with.

[sweetandsour]

Oh gosh. I mean, the show is always entertaining, but it's so far short of coming together.

1.  Well, to start with a moment of (comparative) levity, I enjoyed that they showed us Oliver's dodging of Lazlo twice with "bathroom emergency!" which is the acceptable way to say "explosive diarrhea!" when people are eating, have just eaten, or are going to eat. The first time they showed it, I thought, "that's gonna seem weird to get in the elevator if you have to go to the bathroom, because obviously there are bathrooms on the floor where the party's being held." But actually it makes sense to take a dynamic shit on another floor where you can get some privacy. Not that Oliver had the presence of mind to think that, but I'll give the show a pass on that not being believable since it is. Oliver was panting so hard that that also inadvertently made his BM emergency plausible to others.

2. Not only did Laurel bring a gun, she didn't have the safety on. She wasn't wielding it at the time in self-defense, thus prompting her to take off the safety. Simon didn't take the safety off. I honestly doubt he has ever handled a gun before and would even know how. So Laurel's a pregnant woman carrying a gun around in her purse, with the safety off, when the gun may accidentally go off and who knows, be unfortunately pointed at her stomach when it does. OK. Perfectly logical and safe, Laurel!

3. Asher reacted in panic, but it was a mistake to touch anything at all since it truly was an accidental GSW and none of them actively did anything. Simon's the only one with gunshot residue on his hands. Actually, the gun probably had Laurel's prints on it already, and if she loaded the gun herself, the prints are probably on the bullet casings inside. (Unless she bought it loaded and never touched anything but the exterior of the gun.) So it does kind of make sense for someone to wipe it down to get rid of her residual prints under Simon's, but when they wiped it down after Asher touched the gun, they really should have put it back in Simon's hand to refresh his prints. The GSR tests on Oliver, Michaela, and Asher will come back negative and who knows, the angle of the bullet entry may be concluded as compatible with the slip and fall accident (i.e. not a possible angle and distance for one of the others to have shot him). They would have to explain why Simon even had a gun with him, but that seems like one of the least far-fetched efforts all season. I'm hoping they clear this up quickly instead of dragging out the false arrest for the sake of drama.

4. They were smoking crack to think they could blame it on Simon, had he lived/not been critically wounded. They didn't control for other variables and their logic was highly flawed. The idea that he would try to make a deal as a whistleblower instead of fight for his own fundamental innocence was dumb. Had he been the chief suspect of the data theft, it wouldn't be hard AT ALL for him or his lawyer to put together that someone's framing him for stealing data from the dedicated Antares server room, and the CEO of Antares is Laurel's father. That is not a hidden relationship. Hmmmm, who has more of a relationship with Laurel and her father - him, some student who happened to go to school with her, or the people who are actually in her life? Then just track all of their cell phone activity that night, and the circumstantial evidence just keeps piling up. Never mind if someone at Caplan & Gold saw Laurel at the office party that night, even if it was just getting off the elevator. They wouldn't know who she was then, but once fingers are being pointed, it doesn't take much to connect the dots. Anyone still want to think Simon's the guilty party? And once Simon had been cleared, he could easily secure a job offer from C&G to get his visa sponsorship in exchange for staying quiet about the debacle instead of making a big stink of it. There's no need for him to concede as a whistleblower even though he wasn't involved at all. Also, they wanted to frame Simon as the one who had accessed the data, knowing it took nearly five minutes, but they didn't control for Simon's whereabouts. How easy would it have been for him to say, after being accused of using the keycard at xyz time, "That's not possible. I was talking to this person and that person and that other person during that window." They didn't trap him in the bathroom like the door was stuck or tell him to go up to the roof for some kind of surprise or anything. For all they knew, he could have been standing in the front row of the crowd opposite of Tegan. Michaela left partway through Tegan's speech, so she wouldn't know whether Simon was or wasn't there. Never mind what many others brought up re: how could Simon even get the key card if Michaela was securing Tegan's purse in her own hands.

5. Simon's a jerk, but not a "destroy his life by framing him" kind of jerk. I didn't appreciate how they kept rationalizing it, but I understood it, since they're terrible people. Based on their justification for their shitty behavior, I hope they take it gracefully when a loved one of Simon's destroys their lives and/or kills them all for killing/seriously injuring him. Hey, Laurel feels perfectly OK doing all of this for Wes, so she better understand if someone does the same for Simon. And at the end of the series, her child (if he really survives) can be an orphan and then her father can get custody and ruin that kid's life. (Even if the paternity test shows Frank as the father and he's killed, too - no way can his modest family beat Mr. Castillo's resources in a custody battle.) Full circle, guys! Hope she's happy about that idea!

I could go on and on about this show, but I'll try to do something more productive with my life instead.

Edited November 22, 2017 by sweetandsour
changed mistype of "with the safety on" to "with the safety off"