S07.E05: Greenbacks

[formerlyfreedom]

Tiana seeks help from a traveling soothsayer, the iconic Dr. Facilier, in an attempt to save her kingdom. But when it's revealed that he has an ulterior motive she's forced to take matters into her own hands. In Hyperion Heights, Sabine and Jacinda take on a risky business venture, but the strength of their friendship is tested when Victoria interferes with their plans. Meanwhile, Ivy recruits Henry to investigate Victoria, and Roni makes a discovery that could change her relationship with Henry forever. Rogers uncovers a crucial clue in his search for Eloise Gardener.

 

[cappoe]

What a filler piece of crap episode. Predictable. Boring. I almost fell asleep.

Jacinda is the most unlikable character on the show, even more so then Regina and I didn't think that was possible. And she's only been on the show for 5 episodes and she's this unlikable. They really need to scrap Henry/Jacinda cause they have no chemistry and Jacinda is a B.I.T.C.H. It took me 4 seasons to start disliking Regina, it's taken me 5 episodes to hate Jacinda. 

Ivy is so much more likable then Jacinda. She acts more like Cinderella then Jacinda does. Plus she actually has chemistry with Henry.

I thought The Bear King was hot garbage, this could be as bad as that. 0.4 incoming, I can't imagine audiences staying, it's just unrecognizable.

Edited November 4, 2017 by cappoe

[Watt]

Jacinda is the literal worst.

[Rumsy4]

Tiana in the EF reminded me of Jasmine, wanting a hero to save her, and going through the same arc. For a second I thought the frog was going to turn into a man, though the Prince being a frog was a nice enough twist. Not enough to save the episode.

Jacinda is sooo unlikable. And trying to put out the fire with a dish towel?? lol Have you heard of fire-extinguishers, ladies?

I can't say I'm supportive of the girls taking over somebody's else's premises to sell their own goods. All Belfry had to do was call the cops on them for site violation and selling food without the proper permits. No need for arson.

Looks like WHook's daughter was in a tower, from the drawing of the window. 

So, Ivy is actively working against her mother. And she has her memories too. Hmm...

Edited November 4, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Lady Calypso]

Well, that was dull until the very end. Ivy knows who she is and is also running the show? That made the episode a bit better. 

Other than that, yawn. Tiana is still better than Murderella, that's for sure. 

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, Watt said:

Jacinda is the literal worst.

Jacinda can still surprise me.  I had to rewind the scene where she was being an ice cold bitch to her BFF after the fire. I was that confused about what heinous thing Sabine did to Jacinda.  She “made” Jacinda use help with the pop up restaurant.  She “made” Jacinda have hope.  Let’s get some personal responsibility here.  And the look on her face as she clutched the money to her chest, ugh….I seem to have developed a special loathing for Jacinda.  And her last minute, Lucy called me and convinced me I was wrong so here is a food truck did not help in anyway smooth out her earlier behavior.  If A&E were trying to make me dislike Jacinda they couldn’t do a better job of it.

[KingOfHearts]

I have very mixed reactions about the season so far. There are aspects of it I enjoy, but the rest is just so bad.

* "I'm trying to find an annoyed babysitter emoji". I like the typical evil-step-sister bitchiness fused with modern references.
* Jacinda and Sabine got their characters flipped. I thought Sabine was the responsible one and Jacinda was the risktaker? From what little we've seen of them together, anyway.
* "You [Sabine] pick me up?" We're supposed to believe these characters have some awesome friendship, but we haven't seen it. We've never seen Sabine pick up Jacinda when she's down.
* "I have a few friends on the other side." This show is as subtle as a falling anvil with its references.
* Ivy has security camera feeds at her desk? I thought she was just an assistant.
* Roni deleting Ivy's messages was dumb. What if Ivy said something else? Wouldn't Henry text her back, confused?
* I actually did like the brief jazz cooking montage. Fun callback.
* There was nothing legal about Jacinda and Sabine selling beignets at Mr. Cluck's. That is soliciting at someone else's business, not to mention a potential restaurant code violation.
* The Tavern™ has a franchise in Alternate Forest.
* "Wreck it?" Victoria's demands are so vague. If it were Mayor Mills, she'd have a very specific plan thought out. She'd make sure all loose ends were tied up neatly.
* Why TF was Jacinda slapping the fire with a towel? Where the heck is the fire extinguisher?!
* Was Jacinda really running the restaurant by herself before Sabine got there?
* So it's a firefly... ruby. That makes sense.
* Did my eyes deceive me or did Tiana's mom have a stripey straw in her drink?
* I hate Jacinda so freaking much. There was no, "I'm glad you were okay after that fire". She just bitched about taking a risk and losing. I roll my eyes whenever I see her on screen now.
* Stay out of Henry's business, Roni. You've known him for like a week. He's a grown man who can choose whoever he wants to date or drink with. The fact she's really his mother doesn't help anything. Hijacking his phone and telling him to date Genuine!Jacinda (eyeroll) is way out of bounds.
* So instead of using the money to put a roof over her daughter's head for two months, Jacinda bought a drug-infested food truck? She is truly TSTL. Get child protective services on this woman.
* Yes, Tiana. Give your plans to siege the king's castle to a random stranger you just met who just tried to steal from you.
* The two frogs were cute, but way to rip off Shrek 2.
* Did Sabine just take a beignet out of the bag for herself? Rude.

All I can say is - all hail Ivy. She's playing everybody, and it's sooo great. She and Alice are my new favorites.

Edited November 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

10 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Looks like WHook's daughter was in a tower, from the drawing of the window. 

So the girl Victoria has locked up is a lot younger than she appeared to me in the previous episode and she is locked up in Belfrey Tower.  WHook's daughter?

Edited November 4, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[CCTC]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

For a second I thought the frog was going to turn into a man,

I thought the same thing.  I would have been nice to show a glimpse of a male-male same sex relationship, since they are going to focus on a temale-female relationship later and that is also what the focused on in the past (well focused might be too strong of a word).  The frogs jumping off together, strangely might have been the most touching moment of the season.

I thought the twist of Ivy at the end was interesting.  Where the last episode, I thought Ivy was more interesting as Jacenda as a flawed heroine, in those 30 seconds I thought she was already more compelling as a big bad than her mother.

The writing of the dialogue is so heavy-handed at times, either with the speeches or the really big winks to people's real identities.  I am a mother bear etc. 

On a superficial note, I know Roni is not going to dress like Regina, but for some reason that shirt seemed off to me as something Roni would also not wear while working.  I think they want to go with the salt of the earth, blue collar feel, but the bar itself looks like some place where more white collar business people would go for happy hour before the commute back to their suburb.

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

So the girl Victoria has locked up is a lot younger than she appeared to me in the previous episode and she is locked up in Belfrey Tower.  Hook's daughter?

Maybe it's Mother Gothel who trapped WHook's daughter in the tower, and now she's trapped in a sort of tower herself. Karmic payback? 

[ParadoxLost]

Regina and Ivy could be mother and daughter.  Its bordering on eerie how similar they look and how similarly they play their characters.  I thought Drizella was channeling EQ in the party flashback, but holy crap their scenes together was some kind of freaky Friday thing.

Roni’s belief that Henry was falling for Ivy seemed like it came out of nowhere to set up an excuse for Roni to explore her makeshift dungeon; but I’m now thinking it might be a place they go to, an oedipal place.

[KingOfHearts]

Can someone enlighten me on the tattoo thing with WHook? I didn't really understand what was happening with that. I know the man was wearing a symbol from the missing girl's diary.

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Can someone enlighten me on the tattoo thing with WHook? I didn't really understand what was happening with that. I know the man was wearing a symbol from the missing girl's diary.

It was some nonsense about it being a protection rune the guy got when he was in prison. I think. It was a bit hard to hear. But apparently he lied, because he made a phone call to someone after that. Belfry, or... someone else? Good-hearted detective Weaver, perhaps?

Edited November 4, 2017 by Rumsy4

[thuganomics85]

Positive first: this season is actually make me kind of want to check out Reign, because Adelaide Kane has really been impressing me so far.  Liked how she flipped between "helpful" Ivy to the all-knowing Druzella at the end.  I'm already way more interested in her as a potential antagonist then Victoria (sorry, Gabrielle Anwar!)

Hey, it looks like Mayor McCoy use to be a queen before she went to Riverdale!  Also, that was Maguire from Copper as the Frog Prince!  Other then that, well, Tiana is at least better then Cinderella, but that isn't saying much.

When Sabine was showing Lucy the food in that bag at the beginning of the episode, I honestly didn't see the food at first and just the white powder, so I thought Once Upon A Time was going to go down a really dark path for a brief second.

I honestly can't think of any redeeming qualities about Jacinda.  Crappy mother, crappy friend, and a general selfish person.  And of course she's the one "Roni" is pushing Henry to be with.  Whatever, Roni.

Hook is getting close to finding the missing girl/daughter, even if he doesn't know it yet.

I see Robert Carlyle got the episode off after being the main focus last week!

Roni and Henry find a photo that proves they use to know each other.  Of course, I'm sure they'll first go through the whole "Maybe it was photoshopped!" spiel first.

[Rumsy4]

Why do several charatcers think Henry is falling in love with any women he talks to for five minutes?? 

[Terrafamilia]

Seriously, what kind of food service regulations do the have in Seattle? First, Jacinda was supposed to try to run the whole thing all by herself? Then, there is no working fire suppression system in the kitchen at all? And that's not a food truck. It's just some truck you expect to sell food out of.

[ParadoxLost]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Why do several charatcers think Henry is falling in love with any women he talks to for five minutes?? 

Its a sure sign that A&E actually think they are setting up love triangles.

They probably scribbled something in a margin there that Roni is reacting to that wasn't actually happening on screen.  I'm sure it was supposed to be epic.

7 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

Seriously, what kind of food service regulations do the have in Seattle? First, Jacinda was supposed to try to run the whole thing all by herself? Then, there is no working fire suppression system in the kitchen at all? And that's not a food truck. It's just some truck you expect to sell food out of.

WHook:  It was a drug truck. Clean it thoroughly. Use bleach and make it hot. 

Yes, that is precisely the vehicle to use for food service.

[VoicePlaya]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

For a second I thought the frog was going to turn into a man, though the Prince being a frog was a nice enough twist. Not enough to save the episode.

I can't say I'm supportive of the girls taking over somebody's else's premises to sell their own goods. All Belfry had to do was call the cops on them for site violation and selling food without the proper permits. 

I thought the frog was going to turn into a man too. But I agree, the Prince being a frog was a nice twist. 

I hated the girls taking over Mr. Cluck's so much. My family was in the restaurant business for decades and that subplot was bad for my blood pressure. I know we were meant to applaud them for taking initiative and trying to get out of a bad situtation, but no. It just pissed me off. Especially since it came across that the owner didn't even know about it, unless I missed something. I have to assume he didn't since I can't imagine any restaurant owner being okay with their employees taking over like that. Since I watch my mom, who was the head owner at the family restaurant for years, I asked her what she would've been okay with an employee doing this. As expected, her answer was a resounding no. 

Honestly at this point, the person I feel the most sorry for is whoever owns/runs Mr. Cluck's. Because while I know we're supposed to feel so sorry for poor Sabine and Jacinda, but all I could think was how the owner is liable because it's his establishment. Assuming it's the boss from the first episode, but regardless, the owner is the person ultimately rsponsible. He's the one who is going to have to go through the hassle of getting everything cleaned up and insurance companies are a pain to deal with. I'm sure we're not supposed to give him a second thought, but that's what I kept thinking about. And I'm supposed to feel bad that this blew up in Sabine and Jacinda's faces? Sorry, no. 

Jacinda continues to be the worst. Taking over the restaurant was stupid, but Jacinda didn't have to go along with it. I guess Sabine kind of forced her involvement by spending all their rent money on supplies, but I can't place the blame all on her. Incidentally, since kitchen fires can happen even without someone intentionally starting one, it's generally a good idea for someone to keep tabs or stay in the kitchen. The kitchen should have been required to have a fire extinguisher in it, but why use one of those when you can use a dish towel like an idiot? Sabine waited way too long to pull the fire alarm too. Come on now. Yes, your stupid plan blew up in your face. How much worse do you want the fire to get before you do something? 

Also, why pay your rent when you can buy a drug infested food truck instead? No potential health code violations there. 

Nice of Sabine to give Rogers some beignets, but eating one herself? Kind of tacky, IMO.

It's been said, but Henry has so much more chemistry with Roni than Cinderella. Then again, he'd probably have more chemistry with a ceiling fan than he does with Cinderella. Roni's kind of acting more like a jealous ex-girlfriend to me. It's funny, albeit completely inappropriate. 

Victoria continues to be unbelievable as a villain to me. 

That all said, it wasn't completely terrible. I liked Dr. Facilier well enough and do hope we see him again. Her dumb beignet plan aside, I like Sabine/Tiana way more than Cinderella but that's not saying much. I think Mekia's doing a pretty good job. 

I like Ivy and that scene between her and the witch was one of the more interesting scenes so far this season. Again, that's not saying much, but still. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by VoicePlaya

[pezgirl7]

I also thought the frog was going to be a man! I didn't mind the Tiana flashbacks. She's probably my favorite out of the new characters. She deserves better than Jacinda. I still think there might be something there between her and Whook.

One line that I thought was clever was Victoria calling Ralph to "wreck it". That made me chuckle.

[Rumsy4]

26 minutes ago, VoicePlaya said:

Especially since it came across that the owner didn't even know about it, unless I missed something. I have to assume he didn't since I can't imagine any restaurant owner being okay with their employees taking over like that.

Sabine specifically said the owner was out of town. So they could do whatever they wanted, apparently.

26 minutes ago, VoicePlaya said:

Honestly at this point, the person I feel the most sorry for is whoever owns/runs Mr. Clucks. Because while I know we're supposed to feel so sorry for poor Sabine and Jacinda, but all I could think was how the owner is liable because it's his establishment.

I feel bad for the proprietor too. No amount of hope or sass is going make what they did ethical. I hope the owner finds out and fires them (pun unintended). Actually I have no idea where Tiana works. Does she work there too? 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Writing Wrongs]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

* "Wreck it?" Victoria's demands are so vague. If it were Mayor Mills, she'd have a very specific plan thought out. She'd make sure all loose ends were tied up neatly.

That was just for the Wreck-It Ralph joke.

[Shanna Marie]

This one was pretty painful. They aren't the least bit interested in realism, even in the "real world" bits, are they? The frog enchanted to be a prince rang truer than anything in the supposed real world -- taking over a restaurant to sell other food, not having fire control measures in a restaurant kitchen, people who work in restaurants not having any training for what to do in a kitchen fire, turning any old truck into a food truck.

I would have said that they missed an opportunity to use a returning cast member (even if he's playing a semi-new character) to warm us up to a new character when whatever scene in which Jacinda got Rogers' help (did she run into him and just happen to mention their dilemma and he came up with the truck? Did she go to him for help and ask if he knew how to find a truck?) but Jacinda is kind of a lost cause now. Still, it would really help if we saw those scenes that indicate there's some kind of community. The only times we've seen Rogers interact with Jacinda, he showed up with Ivy to take Lucy (which STILL makes no sense) and he was there at the recital. We've had no indication that he's someone she would go to for help or someone she would chat with casually if she ran into him.

Some of the dialogue was so bad that I became acutely aware it was actors reciting lines. Then I tried to say some of those lines and found that there was no way to speak them like a normal human being talking.

I liked the actor playing Facilier. I think he did a good job. I'm also enjoying the subtle differences between Rogers and all the other incarnations of Hook we've seen. During the interrogation scene, I found myself thinking "bless his heart, he's about as menacing as a puppy," but then I remembered some of the scenes when Hook was truly terrifying. 

[Camera One]

Maybe my expectations have reached rock bottom, but I thought this episode wasn't that bad. 

Tiana as a protagonist was relatively likeable and seemed to be a hero with some room for growth (though her big "realization" in the episode was rather clunky).  Having said that, the fact that she started out as a Princess pretty much made her Tiana only in name.  I also don't understand the worldbuilding in Enchanted Forest Redux at all.  So "The King" has raised taxes.  But Tiana is a Princess and is recognized by the people as such?   And marrying her mother made her father a Prince, who "spent a lifetime building this kingdom"?  Huh?  This family seems to be part of the aristocracy and news flash, nobles don't usually call themselves Princes and Princesses just for kicks.

Drizella did a great job with the deliciously evil snark at the flashback auction, and the banter with Tiana was fun.  Although I hate bad guys tricking good guys and getting the upper hand (this will make future scenes with Henry so much more painful), she is a much better villainess than the actress who plays Victoria.  Though I was starting to feel sorry for Ivy and now we know we don't need to bother.  I was wondering why Victoria needed a fingerprint sensor yet Ivy could get up there herself.  

The end with Marius turning into a frog was a decent call-back to the movie.  Despite making Tiana an inexplicable Princess, this episode seemed to have more callbacks to the movie than some "adaptations" we've seen in the past (eg. Count of Monte Cristo episode).  The actor who played Marius was quite wooden, though, so I never felt any chemistry with Tiana.  I suppose that's partly intentional since he was a one-off, but still.  It made the scenes rather dull.

Victoria is rather dumb... so she couldn't think of anything that she could do to "destroy Lucy's belief" without asking someone else?  She personally announces rent increases to the tenants?  We still haven't seen a single scene with just Victoria and Lucy even though they supposedly live together.  

Roni acting like Henry's mother feels really unnatural.  If you didn't watch Season 1-6, you'd think she wanted Henry for herself.  So who left the photo of Regina and Henry there?

Great way to keep Rumbelle fans, by having Weaver completely MIA in this one.

I assumed Sabine was solely going to use the Mr. Cluck's kitchen to bake, and then sell the finished product on a stand outside, or at Roni's, or something, not right in Mr. Cluck's.  Customers would come back the next day when the boss was back asking why they're not selling beignets anyone, and they would be caught.  As others said, the arson was completely unnecessary.  Heck, Victoria was looking at the new "food truck" on instagram, so why isn't she calling Ralph to burn the food truck, uh, I mean drugged out moving van?

A&E is even more incompetent than we thought, if they actually think they are making Jacinda likeable by having her blame Sabine for everything.  The actress playing Jacinda was really struggling with the line delivery in the first scene at Mr. Cluck's, so they weren't selling the friendship.  It didn't help that her lines made the character seem so dense, since she pretty much needed Sabine to spell out her plan with the beignets when it was obvious.  Sabine dissing the idea of the farmers' market and immediately jumping to giant restaurant with jazz, etc... maybe that was a call-back to the movie, but it made her seem totally ridiculous.

The story had a few gaps that gave me pause.  One was when we saw Victoria eating the beignets out of the blue.  Another was Jacinda getting Rogers' help off-camera.  Both were so abrupt that I'm assuming there was a scene or two cut.  

So it looks like Tiana has been a "Leader of the Resistance" for about a day.  So how did she know all about Cinderella's father and his murder, eh?

Edited November 4, 2017 by Camera One

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I feel bad for the proprietor too. No amount of hope or sass is going make what they did ethical. I hope the owner finds out and fires them (pun unintended). Actually I have no idea where Tiana works. Does she work there too? 

Yes, Tiana works there as well. Since the owner scheduled Jacinda to work there by herself, the place would have burned down anyway. It's the owners fault for hiring employees too dumb to use a fire extinguisher.

Roni got to see all of Henry and Ivy's flirting and her mother bear instincts kicked in. Wouldn't Roni have spent years watching Henry, Jacinda and Lucy together as a happy family. Those feeling would be hard to ignore.

[CCTC]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

Though I was starting to feel sorry for Ivy and now we know we don't need to bother.  I was wondering why Victoria needed a fingerprint sensor yet Ivy could get up there herself.  

Unless they are going to reveal to the others Ivy is evil in the next couple of episodes, as cool as the reveal was, it was premature.  It does totally cut out any suspense on whether Ivy is sincere or playing them and will make scenes with her helping the heroes frustrating because we will now they are being played.  I thought the finger print thing was a bit odd, because Ivy seems to get down there with no problem.   Seemed like lazy writing.  Same with the picture.  Ronnie is down there for 2 minutes - they are about to leave, she sees a locker which is easily open, and the only thing it holds is a picture of her and Henry.  It is possible Ivy planted it like that, because she wanted her to find it, but it still seemed a bit clumsy and lazy.

[darkestboy]

Not a bad episode. Liked the variation on The Princess And The Frog during Tiana's flashbacks but this episode alone convinced me that Facillier, Ivy and/or the Witch would be better antagonists than Victoria and Tiana a better protagonist than Jacinda too.

Bit dumb them selling the beignets at Cluck's and the arson seemed predictable but maybe the business will work despite Victoria probably trying to sabotage it.

Ivy being aware she's Drizella and working with the Witch against her mother is a nice twist. Ivy in general is one of the strongest newbies this season.

Some nice enough scenes with Henry/Roni and Rogers with his own sideplot this week.

Are we ever going to see Victoria and Lucy interact without someone else in the mix? 7/10

[Mitch]

I actually liked this one a lot better..

Good points-on the episode...the villain in the NuEF was cool and I liked that he wasn't the usual super powered magic user who knocks a hero out or stangles them in mid air until something convenient happens to save so called "hero" She  fought him and beat him on  her own merits,by being quicker and smarter then he..which is how it should have been all along. Can we now dispense with the ultra powerful villain and the hapless "hero" and have the scales more even? I liked this actress she had charm and energy and I usually hate princess characters but I liked hers.  I liked that she didnt need a prince and I liked the frog thing too...(though ripped from a Bewitched episode..) but I did think the Prince's frog was going to be a guy. I liked the twist at the end..so finally we might actually have a good stealth villain..(I know someone thinks this is too soon but it is needed..Victoria aint cutting it...)

Bad points- its sad when the plot and actions in the EF are more realistic then in the "Real World."  How can someone close a shop and take it over and explain why there are no receipts for the weekend? Did they dismiss the staff so they didnt get paid? Are there no security cameras in place..no customers expecting their old tacos...(I hate on TV shows when someone wants to make something and start a business and it automatically takes off) the owner has no friends or family checking out the place, no customers who would complain on Monday? The cops were looking for the reason the fire broke out, they are spending the money on themselves and not the guy who owns the place...(Oh I know, hes a mean boss so its okay...) If you are making a show where one half is supposed to take place in our world, you need to make it as real as possible especially since the other half is frogs and princesses. Lazy, lazy writers. 

Jacinda stinks, the actress and the characters and the kid still is one note and grates.  Ronis place is too big and polished and corporate then what they presumably are going for. There is no way Roni could afford the rent on that place, especially with no customers.  Ronis looks like a place Mayor Mills would go to plot an evil scheme not a place Roni would run. Roni's should be dive..which would have 90s grunge bands playing..it should be small and dark and not only be more realistic, but stuffing with a few extras would make the place seem more crowded. Roni should be wearing a Green Day (get it..ha ha) t-shirt and she should be drinking a lot and sleeping with the younger guys in the place..which would make it so much more fun when everyone wakes up and Henry has to deal with his Mom and her "zest for life"  Everything about this neighborhood is off and not in the way SB was...its like some middle aged geeks from LA were dreaming up a hip Seattle neighborhood...oh....ah yes, okay I get it.

[Camera One]

Quote

How can someone close a shop and take it over and explain why there are no receipts for the weekend? 

It looks like Jacinda was still selling chicken, so the business was still open and there would be receipts. 

The fact that she can fry chicken and work at the register at the same time shows how amazing she is.  I've been to a fried chicken place run by a couple, and the wait-times are so long even though they had two people and not one.  A&E thinks it can operate like a coffee shop... so Jacinda would take an order and then go to the back and fry up exactly 2 pieces with fries or whatever and then take the next customer's order.  I'm beginning to think these Writers live in a cocoon on ABC Studios never venturing out into the real world or encountering humans.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The fact that she can fry chicken and work at the register at the same time shows how amazing she is.  I've been to a fried chicken place run by a couple, and the wait-times are so long even though they had two people and not one.  A&E thinks it can operate like a coffee shop... so Jacinda would take an order and then go to the back and fry up exactly 2 pieces with fries or whatever and then take the next customer's order.

Not just that. Jacinda and Tiana were have a long conversation spouting hope and whatnot with a long line of people waiting to be served. Great way to speed up service! 

[Camera One]

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Not just that. Jacinda and Tiana were have a long conversation spouting hope and whatnot with a long line of people waiting to be served. Great way to speed up service! 

We forgot The Mice are probably on staff.

This episode isn't a total write-off.  It can be used as a public service announcement about what happens when you fan the flames during a kitchen fire.  And how it's important to grab those greenbacks before you evacuate!

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

It looks like Jacinda was still selling chicken, so the business was still open and there would be receipts. 

The fact that she can fry chicken and work at the register at the same time shows how amazing she is.  I've been to a fried chicken place run by a couple, and the wait-times are so long even though they had two people and not one.  A&E thinks it can operate like a coffee shop... so Jacinda would take an order and then go to the back and fry up exactly 2 pieces with fries or whatever and then take the next customer's order.  I'm beginning to think these Writers live in a cocoon on ABC Studios never venturing out into the real world or encountering humans.

In the first episode of the season, Jacinda quit because she was mad at her boss for yelling at the other employee for dropping a whole tray of chicken, so they're not even consistent about how this shop runs. Since Lucy was there after her (presumably) after-school dance class, they were messing with the beignets during the dinner rush. It would have made a lot more sense if they'd used the kitchen overnight when the restaurant was closed and did their pop-up cafe for breakfast.

Then there's the food truck, which isn't just a truck that sells food. It has to be equipped as a kitchen. There would have to be a water supply, with separate sinks for washing up and for getting water for cooking, there would have to be some kind of ventilation for cooking, a power supply, refrigeration, etc. There's no way they could get a truck, even off the impound lot, and equip it enough to start earning money with it with just two months worth of rent. And I still don't get how Jacinda got the truck from Rogers. Since they have no relationship that we've seen and have only had negative interactions so far, that makes it a deus ex machina. You can't just say Rogers helped her offscreen. We have to see how that came about. Was she whining to Roni while Rogers was also at the bar, and he overheard her and made the suggestion? I don't think he's someone she'd go to for help. She doesn't seem to know he's in the group planning to take Victoria down. He would have no reason to know about her dilemma. You can't just say "Oh, this other character solved our problem offscreen" when there's no established link between the characters.

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

In the first episode of the season, Jacinda quit because she was mad at her boss for yelling at the other employee for dropping a whole tray of chicken, so they're not even consistent about how this shop runs. Since Lucy was there after her (presumably) after-school dance class, they were messing with the beignets during the dinner rush. It would have made a lot more sense if they'd used the kitchen overnight when the restaurant was closed and did their pop-up cafe for breakfast.

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense.  In addition, how did everyone in the neighborhood find out so quickly about the beignets?  Your idea about using the kitchen overnight would have been so much more realistic.  Plus doesn't Sabine have a job of her own?  

That was definitely not a food truck, so I don't know if it was a problem with the props department or the Writers have no idea what a food truck is.  Food trucks also need to pay a licensing fee.  

It's pretty pathetic when "2 Broke Girls" is more realistic than this show.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

17 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm also enjoying the subtle differences between Rogers and all the other incarnations of Hook we've seen. During the interrogation scene, I found myself thinking "bless his heart, he's about as menacing as a puppy," but then I remembered some of the scenes when Hook was truly terrifying. 

I too am enjoying the way Colin is playing WHook and Detective Rogers. It's different enough from Hook/Killian prime, while still retaining some essential elements. 

In theory, I wouldn't mind WHook getting a LI, but it's just too soon. Maybe in the second half of the season. But for now, I'm glad they nixed any planned romance between him and Tiana. I didn't get any shippy vibes in their scene together this episode. 

Tiana must have grown up pretty sheltered if she didn't realize that walking into a seedy bar with flashy jewelry was not a good idea. Also, it really bothered me that the guy was trying to rob her earrings, which were concealed by her hair/hood, and not the big shiny necklace she was wearing.

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That was definitely not a food truck, so I don't know if it was a problem with the props department or the Writers have no idea what a food truck is.  Food trucks also need to pay a licensing fee.  

It's really annoying when most of the "real world" details are so unbelievably written. What is this, amateur hour??

[Star Aristille]

10 hours ago, CCTC said:

Unless they are going to reveal to the others Ivy is evil in the next couple of episodes, as cool as the reveal was, it was premature.  It does totally cut out any suspense on whether Ivy is sincere or playing them and will make scenes with her helping the heroes frustrating because we will now they are being played.

Ivy's/Drizella's final scene with that witch was interesting to me.  Mainly because I'm wondering about her intentions.  Does she really have ill, evil intentions as hinted?  Does she really have good intentions in trying to take down Victoria/Lady Tremaine?  Is that witch the true Big Bad of the season?  And who really cast the new curse?  Did mother or daughter do it?  And how did whoever did not cast the new curse retain her memories?  I don't know.  But already, I'm more interested in her than I am in her mother.

I'm glad that they put Mekia Cox on regular status.  This was the perfect episode for her introduction as a main character.  She played everything perfectly, both as Tiana and as Sabine.  I appreciated her acting throughout the episode, and perhaps my favorite reaction of hers was when Prince Marias turned out to be a frog.  I loved her "Um . . . ooooooookay" face, along with her ". . . Huh."  And then, a smile of happiness on both frogs' behalf when they went off together.  I guess curses that can turn people into frogs can work in reverse, too.

Who was the actor who played Facilier?  He was pretty good, and I like that he used his opening line from the movie, although I was also really hoping he'd add, "How ya'll doin'?"  And at least they kept the character evil, so that's a plus.  I imagine he'll be seen again sometime soon, assuming Tiana did see him prior to the new curse hitting.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Star Aristille

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Tiana must have grown up pretty sheltered if she didn't realize that walking into a seedy bar with flashy jewelry was not a good idea. Also, it really bothered me that the guy was trying to rob her earrings, which were concealed by her hair/hood, and not the big shiny necklace she was wearing.

Did she learn sword training in her sheltered life?  I didn't really get that vibe from her until she said it out loud later.  

Edited November 4, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I freaking hate Jacinda. Honestly, I found Regina more likable... at her worst Woegina phase. At least Regina had depth, complexity, a competent actress, and an entertainingly campy exterior from time to time. There's been absolutely nothing to salvage from Jacinda. She's just annoying. Merida (flipping. Merida.) was at least comically abrasive. She wasn't a main character or love interest. 

Quote

What is this, amateur hour??

Only Regina could say it better.

Quote

Ivy's/Drizella's final scene with that witch was interesting to me.  Mainly because I'm wondering about her intentions.  Does she really have ill, evil intentions as hinted?  Does she really have good intentions in trying to take down Victoria/Lady Tremaine?  Is that witch the true Big Bad of the season?  And who really cast the new curse?  Did mother or daughter do it?  And how did whoever did not cast the new curse maintain her memories?  I don't know.  But already, I'm more interested in her than I am in her mother.

That was easily the best part of the episode. The writers have unintentionally setup an intriguing story that they won't follow through on. If Jacinda's romance with Henry was just a huge misdirect, Victoria was nothing more than a pawn for Drizella, Lucy actually wasn't the Henriella kid, and HH wasn't a product of the Dark Curse like we'd think it is, we might have a better story.  Personally, I'd love it if Henry and Jacinda actually didn't get together and the writers cleverly planted seeds to show she isn't the heroine we think.

Edited November 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God Jacinda is seriously the WORST. I am sick of every episode having her be an asshole for most of the episode, only for her to come around and do the right thing in the last few minutes, after someone gives her a speech that murder/murder/being an asshole to your BFF isn't the right move. It doesn't help that her actress continues to suck life off the screen, so there isn't much redeemable or interesting about her. Having flaws in your lead character is usually a good thing, because it makes them more well rounded and gives them room to grow as a character. However, Jacinda just doesn't have the charm or charisma to make up for such obvious flaws. Even Regina, at her most insufferable, was played by a talented actress. This actress just cant rise above this subpar material, especially as the show is trying to see her as the new heroine of the show, and the new Cinderella and one half of the shows OTP. And she apparently never took a fire safety class in either world, because she did literally every single thing wrong in a fire that you could do! I mean, fanning the flames? Really? Thats even a popular saying for gods sake! If she should have been pissed at anyone, she should be pissed at herself. 

I will give the show credit, I did like the Tiana/Sabina stuff more than I expected to, and they did at least try to connect her more to the character, at least in shout outs. The benets and her love of jazz music fits in pretty well, and they at least made an attempt to make her land look like a sort of magical New Orleans/Antebellum south at times. The actress even seemed to be attempting a New Orleans accent once or twice! Doctor Facilier was really good as well, and it was cool seeing a different kind of magic user in this universe. He didn't look much like the character from the movie, but he sure acted like him, so I`ll take it. And the actress really is likable, so she made some of the more hokey dialogue work. The frog twist was actually a good twist, and it was nice seeing a hero do something nice for someone with no promoting, even someone she didn't know and tried to steal from her. 

That being said, not everything in the flashback worked for me. I know that attempting to figure out world building in this show is the writing equivalent of herding cats, but I have SO many questions about how this part of the multiverse works. How is Tiana a princess when theres also a king she has no connection with? It sounds more like her family is nobility or just a formerly rich family fallen upon hard times, so why is she called Princess when her family doesn't rule the land? Is her land a part of some kind of feudal system, and her family is in charge of this area, but answers to a king? Is this world set up the way it was in Tsarists Russia where Prince and Princess was another noble title, and not an indicator of royalty? Despite being in a weird medieval New Orleans? Honestly, I would be alright with this world being a weird mashup of cultures and folklore and Disney and history, and culture, that actually sounds interesting, but for that to work, they would need to commit to the rules of the universe, and they clearly have no interest in that, so it just comes across as a mess. Also, Tianas dad was in "the war"? What war? One of the several Ogre Wars? Or was it something else? How did her dad build the kingdom up from being a cook? How does this connect to the kingdom where Murderella is from? Why is Tiana in this medieval world anyway? Her story took place in the 1920s! I AM CONFUSED! Also, for a character known as the Frog Princess, she never actually turns into a frog! She never even kisses a frog! Shes more of a Frog Matchmaker! 

While I do like Tiana/Sabina, I will admit that it does bug me that she has only superficial similarities to the character from The Princess and the Frog. That Tiana wasn't a risk taker or a dreamer, she was a goal oriented workaholic. She did have lots of ambition and ideas, but they weren't whimsical, she was the 20s version of those people that have a 30 year plan by the age of 16! No way would that character be dreaming of balls and princes, or, as a modern person, breaking rules at her place of work or coming up with wild ideas on the fly. This isn't as sad of an adaptation as some past characters, but, again, its the look of the characters, not the characters themselves. 

Even knowing shes probably evil, I still like Ivy and Henry together better than Jacinda and Henry. At least Ivy is funny and has some depth. Also, what is it with everyone on this show telling Henry he`s falling in love with every damn women he talks to for three seconds? Roni doesn't know him, why does she care so much? Ivy might be sketchy, but Jacinda isn't exactly a catch either. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Rumsy4]

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Roni doesn't know him, why does she care so much? Ivy might be sketchy, but Jacinda isn't exactly a catch either. 

Besides, pushing someone to date a single mother seems oddly presumptuous. What if Henry doesn't want to be a father-figure to a child? Or if things don't work out, Lucy's heart would break too. I get they're cursed and blah blah, but the characters don't know that. So, Roni pushing a reluctant Henry to date a woman who comes with baggage is not a smart move. 

In Season 1, we could see cursed Snow and Charming drawn to each other despite everything, but with Henry and Murderella, they both seem a bit ambivalent towards each other. 

[Camera One]

I don't get the scene at the beginning of the episode.  Rogers dropped off the box of evidence to keep at Roni's?  Huh?

[tessaray]

Sigh. I'm halfway through my recording of this episode and just had to take a break. Jacinda is the worst friend ever. If I didn't know about (and want to see) the final Ivy scene, I'd just stop here and not look back.  

[sharky]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I don't get the scene at the beginning of the episode.  Rogers dropped off the box of evidence to keep at Roni's?  Huh?

I assumed he thought Victoria would try and swoop in on his pet project so it’s there for safe keeping from people like Weaver or Victoria. 

Reasons I like coming to this board: you agree with me. Seriously, I had to fast forward through the fire. You have a restaurant and no fire suppression system in the kitchen?

And I’m with the rest of you. Jacinda is the worst! I would love Henry with Ivy or Sabine. Jacinda? Blech. It’s like they cast the actress to be the daughter and then thought “Oh we need a Hispanic actress to play the mother,” and just pulled a name out of a hat. Did we get too spoiled with the chemistry between Ginnifer and Josh or Jen and Colin? Do we have standards that Andrew and whatever her name is can’t live up to? Or is their chemistry not working? I mean, remember the beanstalk? You never forget your first. 

I’m also missing the fairy tale aspect. It’s amazing how much of a difference Storybrooke makes. I know using Steveston and changing signs may have cost a bit more in production, but why couldn’t they have done that? Or somehow cut the cost of using all the signs and whatever? Imagine if we had these new characters in a newly cursed Storybrooke with Roni behind the bar at the Rabbit Hole and Victoria living in the mayor’s mansion. Rogers and Weaver running a small town police station. Tilly a waitress at Granny’s. It would be familiar but different. Slightly askew with fewer changes between Steveston and Storybrooke to make it viable.

I just miss the underlying fairy tale in all of this. There’s no magic in Hyperion Heights. And not just magic magic — no chemistry magic either among the new characters or between the new and old characters and that’s becoming more evident each week.

ETA: this is starting to form into a fanfic idea in my head. You jerks! I don’t have time to write this! I’m moving to another state and trying to sell my house! Why are you guys making me come up with new ideas? Ugh!

Edited November 5, 2017 by sharky
You are bad influences

[Rumsy4]

19 minutes ago, sharky said:

Reasons I like coming to this board: you agree with me. ...

ETA: this is starting to form into a fanfic idea in my head. You jerks! I don’t have time to write this! I’m moving to another state and trying to sell my house! Why are you guys making me come up with new ideas? Ugh!

Seriously this forum (& WHook) is probably the most important reason I'm still watching this Show. I don't even want the Show to be cancelled, because I know how quickly fandoms can drift away. I love how we are all in this mess together, trapped. This is the real hotel California. :-p

PS: Write it!!

Edited November 5, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

So I guess the scene of Sabine on a dating app (mentioned by the actress in an interview two weeks ago) was cut from Episode 3, along with her scene with Rogers on the park bench.

[Rumsy4]

I was half expecting the scene to be in this episode. But looks like they cut it. 

[tennisgurl]

57 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

This is the real hotel California. :-p

American Horror Story: Once Upon A Time :) 

[Star Aristille]

25 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So I guess the scene of Sabine on a dating app (mentioned by the actress in an interview two weeks ago) was cut from Episode 3, along with her scene with Rogers on the park bench.

Why would they go in that direction?  What, Adam and Eddy are against bringing in Naveen at some point?  Not that I mind if they are.  Giving the first black Disney princess a prince that wasn't black himself but instead Hispanic was a very, very poor move and, from what I understand, caused a little bit of controversy.  (I mean, the first black Disney princess doesn't get the first black Disney prince?  Come on, Disney!)

[Camera One]

On 11/3/2017 at 6:09 PM, Rumsy4 said:

Tiana in the EF reminded me of Jasmine, wanting a hero to save her, and going through the same arc. 

Now that you mention it, they pretty much gave Tiana the storyline that Jasmine should have had last year, considering Tiana wasn't actually a Princess, nor was she sheltered from a hard life.

[TheRabbi]

I'm really struggling to care about continuing this show. The story the past couple seasons was crazy and infuriating at times, but we were invested in the characters which made it worth persevering. I could give a crap about any of these people on the show now. Ivy is the only one that is not a completely unlikable prick. I might not make it through the season.

Edited November 5, 2017 by TheRabbi

[whyamiwatchingthis]

Hey guys. New at previously.tv. I appreciate the honesty expressed here and am in complete agreement with regard to the present failures of the reboot, which boil down to both writing and casting imo. It is hard to believe that the folks who brought us such a magnetic couple as Captain Swan would come back with such an ill-fitting pairing as Andrew J. West and Dania Ramirez. West is a capable actor if you ask me, but he can't make up for the utter lack of chemistry between him and Ramirez. The character Jacinda is terribly written and poorly acted to boot, which wouldn't be a big deal for a trivial character but it is a real head-scratcher that they cast her in a lead role since it means we have only more of her insipid performance to look forward to in the future. There is no warmth, no soul, and no heart to the portrayal of Jacinda, who already has so few redeeming qualities. When she's not attempting murder of innocents, she's easily giving up on the people who are trying to help her and instead chooses to wallow in self-pity. The way Jacinda turned on Sabine at the last minute in this episode was out of left field and utterly unrealistic, but doubly so because of how unconvincingly Ramirez played it.

The scenes between Sabine and Jacinda in this episode only served to highlight Ramirez's weakness. Mekia Cox (who plays Sabine) appears to be a solid actress and if A&E are at all in tune to what makes good television, they would do well to pull a twist and make Sabine/Tiana possibly be Lucy's real biological mother, allowing Sabine to get together with Henry. Otherwise, I don't know how they plan to sustain viewer interest with Jacinda at the helm of this storyline.

I'll end on a positive note by saying I really enjoyed Mekia Cox's portrayal of Sabine/Tiana and this storyline will be fun to follow. Like others here, I'm also intrigued by Ivy. The actress convincingly plays the role and I look forward to seeing what she has up her sleeve. I'm also impressed that Colin has brought nuance to the Whook character and is playing him differently than the old Hook. And of course, I love Lana so I'm a fan of Roni, although I wish they'd give her better material to work with. The whole deleting-of-the-text sub-plot was pretty inane as others have pointed out.

A&E have a lot of work to do!

[CheshireCat]

On ‎04‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 0:41 AM, Camera One said:

 

Roni acting like Henry's mother feels really unnatural.  If you didn't watch Season 1-6, you'd think she wanted Henry for herself.  So who left the photo of Regina and Henry there?

I was thinking that Roni probably acted like Regina would have in S1 if Henry had had contact with Emma or something but that's a good point. On the other hand, how many viewers are really knew to the show and would they really not catch up on S1-6? It's not a spin-off, it's continued, and it is S7. If I were tuning in and liked the first episode, I'd at least read up on everything.

 

On ‎04‎.‎11‎.‎2017 at 0:41 AM, Camera One said:

Great way to keep Rumbelle fans, by having Weaver completely MIA in this one.

He was shot during the previous episode, so he'd have been recovering but they should have mentioned that.

I really liked this episode and I keep liking Tiana as a character plus her story more and more. Lady Tremaine isn't Regina or the EQ and never will be but so far, I haven't minded her as a villain. This episode was the first, in so far, that I'm starting to find boring. I never found Regina boring. I guess, I always had a soft spot for Regina because I've seen first-hand what it's like when a birth mother takes away an adopted child, so I was actually rooting for Regina to reform more or less from the beginning. But that aside, I thought there was more to the character. Tremaine is starting to seem very one-sided. Additionally, we don't know why she does the things she does, so all we get is this ruthless businesswoman who acts like many CEOs do nowadays.

We only got to see a little bit of him, but seeing him, I thought Dr. Facillier would probably have been an interesting villain/would have made a more interesting villain. It also seems that he would have been more a challenge to Regina and Rumple. He looks like he got elevated from the movie, so he seems to have some real darkness which Regina and Rumple do, too. Tremaine doesn't come across as dark or evil. She comes across as heartless, self-centered and greedy. And I guess, it is who she is as a character. Unfortunately, those aren't villain characteristics, they're real life characteristics.

I'm really wondering what Drizella's agenda is. She may have put the photo there to gain Roni's trust (how would she now that she would show up instead of Henry? Is she clairvoyant?) but it seems quite risky, too, to give Roni a piece of the puzzle.