S13.E05: Lucky Strikes

[Aethera]

Quote

When Garcia experiences anxiety over a case that’s personal to her from her past, Morgan visits to lend emotional support.

 

[ReidFan]

Reid-O-Meter:   a 4 or 5

Rossi: a 10; he was awesome.

story: pretty good I suppose for a CM story, couple twists and Jamie Kennedy is fabulous as a bad guy

the special guest appearance: honestly? slightly better than last time but...........

[Danielg342]

I found this ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. I'm not saying that a situation like what this episode tried to portray couldn't happen- but that, given everything that happened with Floyd Feylinn Ferrell, that he'd be able to do it? Seriously?

I find it hard to believe that after ten years of incarceration that now Ferrell's able to get a big time lawyer to question all the evidence and get him out. Further to the point, but how did Ferrell get committed to a mental institution without any proof that he committed the crimes?

Unless the FBI- and, by extension, the BAU- is so sloppy that it just didn't bother doing a real investigation after arresting him. Or even while they were investigating him.

I mean, seriously, this show has made me accept that criminals with even flimsier arrests as locked up for good (Carl Buford, for example).

If Ferrell really was manipulated into his crimes and was thus subject to a mastermind...well, isn't that the kind of thing the BAU would turn up in an instant?

The more I think of this, the more I think this is yet another shot at Hotch. As if he's taken enough abuse.

Pacing was pretty horrible- this episode ended very abruptly. This should have been a two-parter, and maybe if it was, how Ferrell managed to escape getting convicted could have been better explored and explained.

Hey, great to see Morgan back, though...and Hank Spencer is cute.

Also, if I didn't know any better, Morgan and Garcia really let off those romantic vibes. Which I guess I should expect...they're close friends, after all.

Does make me wonder what happened to Sam, though.

We also deserve a Morgan/Reid scene. Hey, maybe once or twice a year Morgan and Reid can hit the town...come on show, make it happen. It'd be loads of fun.

[TigerLynx]

If I didn't already hate Garcia, I definitely would have after this episode.

There are still to many team members.  If it was just Reid, Emily, JJ and Rossi, they would have more to do, and everyone would get more than one or two lines an episode.

Did all the doctors at the hospital have to be idiots?  Couldn't there have been one or two that had reservations about letting the guy out?

Why did Reid flinch, when cannibal serial killer mentioned Morgan?

[Hotchgirl18]

Worst one of the season. Awful. Did we really have to have ANOTHER "happy team family moment?" The only good thing was Rossi sticking it to him in the end. Very little Reid. It was painful. Utterly painful. 

[Mariana]

I enjoyed the episode, but I'm with Daniel, I felt all the lawyer thing and the doctor very stupid, it was obvious in season 3 that his partner was the devil (in his crazy head) and, come on, all the bodies in his basement... But it kept me on the edge.

About Morgan and Garcia I think it was annoying (the way I feel about this show lately) and to be honest I don't care if we have a scene with Reid or not, for me Shemar is out, I don't miss him at all.

P.S. I loved JJ outfits.

[Annber03]

Completely missed the first couple minutes of the show because my TV was acting up, so I'll need to go back and rewatch that part (doubt I likely missed much, but still).

As for the rest of the episode, I'm really glad that they didn't actually wind up rewriting that case from ten years ago and make it so somebody else had been committing those murders all along. The idea that the BAU might've made a serious mistake could be an interesting premise in and of itself, but with that particular case, it just wouldn't have made any sense to change such a memorable unsub and episode, so yay for keeping that part of things as is. 

I did like the idea of Floyd manipulating somebody new, though, creepy though that idea is. And the whole eleventh hour bit, while perhaps a little too swift and tidy, was fun if for no other reason than the fact I enjoyed Rossi practically gloating over Floyd's scheme backfiring on him. I agree with @Danielg342 that maybe this would've worked better as a two-parter. 

Floyd remains as creepy as ever. Ugh. Just the way he talks sends a shiver through me. I liked Reid and Matt discussing the whole thing with the volunteers accidentally eating...you know....back then. Yeah, I imagine the team's appetites in general plummeted for a good long while after that case. Mine sure would've. 

Loved seeing Morgan (and awwwww at the glimpse of Hank!), though, again, his appearance was way too short. I wished he'd been there for the team get-together at the end! Did like seeing him and Garcia talking again, but I wish they'd had more full on conversation beyond "Morgan's here, Garcia feels better now". I just feel like there's more they could've talked about, not just in relation to her shooting, but in regards to the case with Floyd, considering how much the case had affected Morgan. 

(Also, when Morgan was telling Garcia that he'd prayed for her, er...in "Lucky", he was in the church before he'd heard about Garcia getting shot, not after. Even if the show wants to imply that he'd gone to a church after she'd been shot, that still wouldn't make sense, because he learned that Garcia was going to be okay just minutes after he got to the hospital, and she was up and out of the hospital pretty fast because she was working with the team to help find the guy who shot her. So there'd be no reason for him to go to a church to pray for her to live, because, well, she obviously was. So yeah.)

I also wish that, since JJ was staying behind with Garcia, the two of them had had their own little heart-to-heart, because JJ was the one who shot the man who'd shot Garcia. Surely all these memories being dredged up would've inspired the two of them to discuss that part of things, too, I'd think. 

So yeah. A mixed bag with this episode. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Annber03

[Willowy]

Too rushed. Everything was too rushed. Music too loud, lighting way too bright.

And if we get Morgan again? Can it be for more than just a hug and a vacant look over G's shoulder? And again no Morgan-Reid interaction? What, are the actors feuding?

They should have spent FAR more time on Floyd. Sister? Really? And she didn't SEE all the evidence 10 years ago?

Agreed the doctor was a dumbass.

Not enough Reid. I did love his little pistol finger thing towards Simmons. Cute.

[CrimeFan12]

I enjoyed it.  It wasn't a wow episode, but it was still good.  I liked the twist and turns in it.  At one point I was beginning wonder if Floyd was being manipulated and then they found his pupil.  And when they couldn't prove he had anything to do with the new murders, I thought he was going to get away with it, but he didn't.  He's just as creepy and murderous as before.  

Morgan wasn't needed at all.  I thought that was a waste of time.  If they want to have Morgan back it should be for a full episode like they did for Emily in season 10 episode Tribute.  The chat could have worked nicely with JJ.  After all she's the one who shot and killed Battle and has had to deal with her own PTSD.

Overall a solid B for me.  

[Hotchgirl18]

Preach Willowy. I know we don't agree in everything, but you hit the nail on the head with this "episode."

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Positives:
-  JJ was looking good  (yeah, I'm shallow)
-  Rossi got to rub FFF's face in it, at the end
-  Much more Reid tonight than last week

Sorta Positive:
-  Shemar Moore short guest spot

Negatives:

-  Absolute and complete stupidity of everyone on FFF's side  (mental health doctor, lawyer, sister)

-  SM/Morgan only shows up to give a short pep-talk to Garcia.  Not even a quick 'hi' to anyone else (aside from JJ's off-screen contact).  What a waste of both time and hype for it.

-  I know she doesn't have the fortitude that the rest do, but Garcia is really still so affected a decade later just because a name slightly related to the time she got shot gets her all out of sorts?  Also, the team let it go for a decade and only now finds the time to care because she made them through her actions and reactions??  I know we need to be reminded she has backstory other than just the team hacker, but the script and plot really dis-serviced everyone here.

Edited October 26, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Annber03]

Just now, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

-  JJ was looking good  (yeah, I'm shallow)

Nothing wrong with pointing that part of things out! I completely agree about JJ. This cast in general is too dang good-looking :D. 

[The Wild Sow]

Hey, Continuity writers -- I looked at that wall with the pics and names of Floyd's previous victims, and noticed something missing.  

Where's TRACY LAMBERT??? 

I rewound it 3 times.  Her name was not there.  (Yeah, yeah......Tracy Lambert's in ALL of us!  That just never gets old!)

[Danielg342]

13 minutes ago, The Wild Sow said:

Tracy Lambert's in ALL of us!  That just never gets old!

I agree. I thought about that thinking about Ferrell's machinations...I mean, I know he said it to the priest, but it was still at the police station if memory serves me correctly...and Ferrell admitted there that he killed Lambert.

So how he got out of his crimes makes even less sense to me.

[Hotchgirl18]

15 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I agree. I thought about that thinking about Ferrell's machinations...I mean, I know he said it to the priest, but it was still at the police station if memory serves me correctly...and Ferrell admitted there that he killed Lambert.

So how he got out of his crimes makes even less sense to me.

Makes me wonder if he sweet talked someone in law enforcement, too. 

[ForeverAlone]

I had to give some side eye to aspects of this story. I never bought how Floyd was able to escape the criminal justice system. I mean, if psychologists found him incompetent to stand trial, he would remain locked up, and if he was declared competent, THEN he would be tried for his crimes. Everybody outside of the BAU were utter morons. The doctor was out to lunch, and the sister was clueless for allowing Floyd anywhere near her or her son. Just to raise the "WTF" of this episode, I was hoping the sister or the lawyer was the accomplice. As it was, I found the whole accomplice angle to be so boring. Way to take a classic episode with one of the most shocking ends to an episode and dilute it with this tripe. It is certainly not the worst episode of the season, but I want to forget it, because "Lucky" is one of my favorite Criminal Minds episodes ever. 

[Mislav]

Haven't seen the episode yet, but what I read about it makes it sound really stupid. No evidence against Flloyd? They found ten bodies in his freezer, and his "cookbook" for crying out loud! And he pretty much confessed ("they taste funny", "so is Tracy Lambert"...)

 

Flloyd didn't reappear in sixth episode of season thirteen? That is just wrong.

 

I read that his surviving victim, Sheryl Timmons, reappeared in this episode. If they killed her off, or made her a broken person with PTSD, I'll be really pissed off...

[TheGreenWave]

5 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I had to give some side eye to aspects of this story. I never bought how Floyd was able to escape the criminal justice system. I mean, if psychologists found him incompetent to stand trial, he would remain locked up, and if he was declared competent, THEN he would be tried for his crimes. Everybody outside of the BAU were utter morons. The doctor was out to lunch, and the sister was clueless for allowing Floyd anywhere near her or her son. Just to raise the "WTF" of this episode, I was hoping the sister or the lawyer was the accomplice. As it was, I found the whole accomplice angle to be so boring. Way to take a classic episode with one of the most shocking ends to an episode and dilute it with this tripe. It is certainly not the worst episode of the season, but I want to forget it, because "Lucky" is one of my favorite Criminal Minds episodes ever. 

Totally agree.  Having the sister or lawyer as the accomplice would have been more interesting.  How many times do we really need to see The Completely Mistaken Mental Health Professional Who Sets a Pyscho Killer Free Despite Protestations from Law Enforcement and the Overzealous Naïve Lawyer Who Will Save her Obviously Guilty Client?  I hate when shows then require the storyline to have the leads prove that the others ARE WRONG!  They still don't believe, then at the last minute, the killer/etc. does something or whatever that proves leads were right ALL ALONG!!!  Blech.  Shoot, I felt like this was based on 800 old episodes of Law & Order.  They didn't even touch on the fact that both sisters of the unsubs thought their brothers were not the murderers, and it appears that the accomplice's first victim was the girlfriend/fiancée of his sister.  That could have been interesting to explore.  Instead, we get idiot doctor and lawyer to eat up screen time.

Although - I have to say that Jamie Kennedy knocked it out again as Floyd - the creepiest creeper who creeped.

5 hours ago, Mislav said:

I read that his surviving victim, Sheryl Timmons, reappeared in this episode. If they killed her off, or made her a broken person with PTSD, I'll be really pissed off...

And they had her in the police station when they brought Floyd in with all of the blinds open on the 1000 windows in the room she was being interviewed in - so stupid.

 

9 hours ago, Mariana said:

P.S. I loved JJ outfits.

I too noticed this....  :-)

[idiotwaltz]

I haven't seen this yet but 

Quote

The doctor was out to lunch, and the sister was clueless for allowing Floyd anywhere near her or her son.

Seriously, is this the same sister whom FFF tried to eat when he was 7? And she still let him near her own son?

[TheGreenWave]

32 minutes ago, idiotwaltz said:

Seriously, is this the same sister whom FFF tried to eat when he was 7? And she still let him near her own son?

A son that appeared scared sh*tless around his creepy uncle at that.

[normasm]

Just off the top of my head, some things I liked about this ep. I'm trying to be positive.

I liked that they would revisit an old, creepy case (even though i didn't like Lucky, Floyd is a real creeper), and from the get-go, they are profiling the hell out of this latest murder. Not only that, they are approaching it from the angle that this could either be a copycat OR it could be they didn't get the right guy the first time around, even though they knew Floyd's "influencer" was Imaginary Satan. I like it when they reverse profile, and Rossi and Prentiss were especially invested in not being narrowly focused on proving they were right the first time.

I like that JJ stayed behind to steady the wobbly-woo Garcia. It made sense that the one who put her assailant away would be front and center to support her, even calling on her Chocolate Thunder to make her stop whining - I mean to make her feel better. (Does anyone else think the visit from Morgan was all in Garcia's mind, a mental hologram conjured by JJ? No one else interacted with him...)

Alvez was cool, concerned but not squishy about Garcia, and focused on the task of finding the true killer. Simmons was OK, but I have to again point out that they had so many agents they had to leave JJ behind to fit on the plane! Lewis was her calm steady self, which I appreciate. And I thought Emily was curt and strong, channeling her inner Hotch. Rossi was really good, although that last bit was a little silly, depending on an X-ray a day or two after ingestion to show a bunch of fingers. They wouldn't still be in his stomach, and they would be more like a gluey mess instead of neat little sausages ready to fingerprint! But I digress.

There were certainly holes in the story (how did Floyd afford a pricey lawyer to sue for exoneration?) and the usual implausible human anatomy/physiology. But less playing for laughs, Rossi didn't seem like a doddering old man, points for all of that.

Reid. Dear Reid. Logically speaking, he should have stayed behind with Garcia, but he was thrust into confronting Floyd, finding bodies, and going to the sanitarium to find that Floyd was on supervised visit to his sister, etc. His demeanor was grim, and a little twitchy, which is the least that they needed to show how troubled he still is. (I like him paired with Luke) I think he should still be shown having trouble for some time, after all, Garcia took 10 years to have her meltdown. 

The final scene was emblematic, at least to me, that the cast/show is aware of the clown car aspect of this lineup. Garcia invites them all to her place, and they all get into the elevator, laughing, seemingly, at Reid squeezing in at the end, the door barely closing!

[idiotwaltz]

Maybe because I went in with insanely low expectations, I didn't hate it. I actually paid attention for most of the episode, minus the Garcia drama. I can't stand Morgan's gnome beard. 

 I loved JJ's terse, "He's dead" in response to Alvez' question about where Colby Baylor is now. JJ was so badass back then, without even trying. 

The lawyer might've been bad but the idiot doctor was so much worse. 

Hank is really adorable. 

[walnutqueen]

14 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

If I didn't already hate Garcia, I definitely would have after this episode.

YES!  Then, to add insult to injury, we just had to endure the return of the Baby Girl Whisperer to cure her decade delayed PTSD.   The thought of eating human flesh makes me want to vomit less than that Gar(cia)bage.

I did enjoy Rossi's last minute takedown.

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly not a bad episode.  I liked the twists and turns and seeing old unsubs is a nice treat especially creepy ones.   Morgan wasn’t really needed.  It would have been better if Garcia had figured a way to pull herself out of her funk but of course she needs a dude to do it for her.  That was my take away anyway.  

I don’t understand the hatred of Garcia but then again I REALLY don’t understand the love of Reid so whatever.  

Edited October 26, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ReidFan]

yeah, I hear you...

I have no doubt that Kirsten Vangsness is a sweet lady and a fun co star and I respect and like the lady.

 But Garcia is really starting to grate on my nerves. She needs to be more like the Garcia of the last few minutes of the episode (the realisation with the ME's report, and even, in smaller doses, the bringing together of her BAU family (for responsible intoxication LOL, I did like that) but the Baby Girl stuff... Please. This woman is in her 40s now. Stop already.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, normasm said:

Alvez was cool, concerned but not squishy about Garcia.

I liked his reaction upon hearing the story about her being shot. It was sweet and touching. The show's done well to develop his friendship with her-he doesn't try to replicate Morgan in the way he shows his care and concern for her, it's its own thing and has a gentleness about it that I like. I actually think that could've been an interesting part of Garcia and Morgan's conversation last night, her noting the difference between Morgan and Luke in terms of her friendships with them. And not in a "let's make this a competition" sort of way, either. I think Morgan would like knowing Garcia's got somebody else to lean on ('cause let's face it, he won't be able to pop up every time she's struggling with something), and it'd be sweet to hear Garcia explaining what she's come to like about Luke, and how glad she is to have both him and Morgan in her life. 

(On the note of Morgan, by the way, so are we ever going to find out where the heck he's living now? 'Cause evidently he's not close by, since we had that mention of him taking a flight in "Red Light", and because if he were living close by, he would no doubt stick around longer when he comes to visit. So where'd he move to? And what's he doing nowadays for a job? Or has he become a stay-at-home dad? Be nice to get those details sorted at some point.)

Quote

Reid. Dear Reid. Logically speaking, he should have stayed behind with Garcia, but he was thrust into confronting Floyd, finding bodies, and going to the sanitarium to find that Floyd was on supervised visit to his sister, etc. His demeanor was grim, and a little twitchy, which is the least that they needed to show how troubled he still is. (I like him paired with Luke) I think he should still be shown having trouble for some time, after all, Garcia took 10 years to have her meltdown. 

Ooooooh, good point. Mind, if Emily had suggested he stay behind I imagine he would've protested and insisted he could handle things, but still. Yeah. You're absolutely right. 

I like him paired with Luke, too. And I liked the scenes with him and Matt last night as well. Shallow comment of my own incoming-I couldn't help being a bit amused, in a good way, at the sight of Reid, Luke, and Matt all standing together on Floyd's sister's front porch last night. Way to show off the amount of attractive men this team has, show :D. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Annber03

[JMO]

6 hours ago, normasm said:

Just off the top of my head, some things I liked about this ep. I'm trying to be positive.

I liked that they would revisit an old, creepy case (even though i didn't like Lucky, Floyd is a real creeper), and from the get-go, they are profiling the hell out of this latest murder. Not only that, they are approaching it from the angle that this could either be a copycat OR it could be they didn't get the right guy the first time around, even though they knew Floyd's "influencer" was Imaginary Satan. I like it when they reverse profile, and Rossi and Prentiss were especially invested in not being narrowly focused on proving they were right the first time.

I like that JJ stayed behind to steady the wobbly-woo Garcia. It made sense that the one who put her assailant away would be front and center to support her, even calling on her Chocolate Thunder to make her stop whining - I mean to make her feel better. (Does anyone else think the visit from Morgan was all in Garcia's mind, a mental hologram conjured by JJ? No one else interacted with him...)

Alvez was cool, concerned but not squishy about Garcia, and focused on the task of finding the true killer. Simmons was OK, but I have to again point out that they had so many agents they had to leave JJ behind to fit on the plane! Lewis was her calm steady self, which I appreciate. And I thought Emily was curt and strong, channeling her inner Hotch. Rossi was really good, although that last bit was a little silly, depending on an X-ray a day or two after ingestion to show a bunch of fingers. They wouldn't still be in his stomach, and they would be more like a gluey mess instead of neat little sausages ready to fingerprint! But I digress.

There were certainly holes in the story (how did Floyd afford a pricey lawyer to sue for exoneration?) and the usual implausible human anatomy/physiology. But less playing for laughs, Rossi didn't seem like a doddering old man, points for all of that.

Reid. Dear Reid. Logically speaking, he should have stayed behind with Garcia, but he was thrust into confronting Floyd, finding bodies, and going to the sanitarium to find that Floyd was on supervised visit to his sister, etc. His demeanor was grim, and a little twitchy, which is the least that they needed to show how troubled he still is. (I like him paired with Luke) I think he should still be shown having trouble for some time, after all, Garcia took 10 years to have her meltdown. 

The final scene was emblematic, at least to me, that the cast/show is aware of the clown car aspect of this lineup. Garcia invites them all to her place, and they all get into the elevator, laughing, seemingly, at Reid squeezing in at the end, the door barely closing!

What Norm said.  

I could pick at some things, but I liked most of it, except for the Morgan/Garcia bits (and the SWAT commercials).  Shemar really doesn't come across as Morgan in these quickie guest spots, so unless he's coming back for a full episode, I think we need to be done with having the character visit in person.  I would have wanted a Morgan/Reid scene last spring, but, after two guest stints without one, I'm over it.  

Rossi looked and acted distinguished.  Emily is finding her stride as unit chief.  It moved the Reid-meter about three quarters of the way.  Luke is still likable, especially with Reid.  Simmons was on screen a lot, but doesn't ooze personality for me.  Tara seemed very much in the background.  JJ was the JJ of old.  Good profiling, creepy unsub-by-proxy.  Ridiculous having Garcia, and not Reid (and the entire rest of the team, the ME and all of the LEOs, and the kindergarten class) pick up on the missing five fingers.  Nice to see a nod to examining the after effects, on the community, of having had a serial killer in their midst.  I would watch this one again. 

[Aethera]

I thought the Morgan/Garcia stuff was awkward and felt forced...and I found it to be that way last time he popped up, too. I too wish they'd have let Garcia and JJ work it out together. I completely buy that this unsub coming back could have thrown her back to that time and caused her to struggle - I would imagine that PTSD doesn't have a timer or one way it manifests or progresses? But Morgan didn't really do much...it was like a weird fantasy she was having rather than a real conversation.

I also noticed JJ's outfits, which I normally wouldn't, and I liked them too! I also liked having someone back at headquarters for Garcia to work with, actually, it was nice to have something different rather than them just repeatedly calling her...a new dynamic that might be good to do now and then. I liked the way the team kept an open mind on possibilities, too, but I did think the doctors were way too dumb and that wasn't believable process they were showing. It was fun to watch Jamie Kennedy melt down at the end, and Rossi gloat, though.

I haven't watched the episodes enough times to know - had we seen that agent-turned-cop before? It was interesting to have him in the interrogation.

Overall, I'd say this episode was middling. I seem to feel that way about a lot of them, this season.

[Hotchgirl18]

I did like JJ in this episode. But this episode was  a disappointing follow up to one of the greatest episodes. 

[Danielg342]

I will say there was one positive- Garcia actually lashed out at the team for making her do "all their work". I laughed out loud when I heard that- how many times have we all complained about Garcia doing all the work? The show has actually listened to us and taken note. :)

(Or at least they've acknowledged the concern)

6 hours ago, idiotwaltz said:

Colby Baylor

I don't remember- did Rossi refer to him as Baylor or as Battle? If it was the former, the writer goofed real bad- James Colby Baylor was his alias, his real name was Jason Clark Battle. I would expect Rossi to remember that.

1 hour ago, Aethera said:

I also liked having someone back at headquarters for Garcia to work with, actually, it was nice to have something different rather than them just repeatedly calling her...a new dynamic that might be good to do now and then.

In S1, JJ stayed behind in Quantico and worked with Garcia all the time. She only started going into the field in S2.

[normasm]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

I could pick at some things, but I liked most of it, except for the Morgan/Garcia bits (and the SWAT commercials).  Shemar really doesn't come across as Morgan in these quickie guest spots, so unless he's coming back for a full episode, I think we need to be done with having the character visit in person.  I would have wanted a Morgan/Reid scene last spring, but, after two guest stints without one, I'm over it.  

Rossi looked and acted distinguished.  Emily is finding her stride as unit chief.  It moved the Reid-meter about three quarters of the way.  Luke is still likable, especially with Reid.  Simmons was on screen a lot, but doesn't ooze personality for me.  Tara seemed very much in the background.  JJ was the JJ of old.  Good profiling, creepy unsub-by-proxy.  Ridiculous having Garcia, and not Reid (and the entire rest of the team, the ME and all of the LEOs, and the kindergarten class) pick up on the missing five fingers.  Nice to see a nod to examining the after effects, on the community, of having had a serial killer in their midst.  I would watch this one again. 

Yep.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't remember- did Rossi refer to him as Baylor or as Battle? If it was the former, the writer goofed real bad- James Colby Baylor was his alias, his real name was Jason Clark Battle. I would expect Rossi to remember that.

Rossi might, but I sure don't. I actually don't remember this unsub/case at all. I do vaguely recall Garcia being shot, but nothing about this case. This episode didn't really have a huge impact on me either and maybe that's the reason.

[funandfitpt]

Wow, they mentioned Vince Li. That happened right outside of where I live. If you don't know the story, google him, it's awful. 

[Kelda Feegle]

The Shemar scene felt so weirdly forced that it almost felt like a contractual obligation. Just there to remind viewers he is around - th OH turned to me and asked if Shemar was doing anything now (we don't get the ads for SWAT) so maybe that influenced my perception. Also Shemar's face was odd, maybe a little work around the eyes?

[secnarf]

6 minutes ago, funandfitpt said:

Wow, they mentioned Vince Li. That happened right outside of where I live. If you don't know the story, google him, it's awful. 

It was awful. I remember when this happened, as well as his absolute discharge earlier this year. However, I was thoroughly annoyed by the comparison. AFAIK, Vince Li was not a serial killer - it was a one-time (albeit horrific) event. That case caused a huge amount of public outcry and panic, and certainly did nothing to help reduce the stigma associated with schizophrenia. Comparing this case to one so obviously different only serves to reinforce the notion that all people with schizophrenia are dangerous and should be locked up indefinitely. And aside from that, I really don't think the comparison makes any sense!

[UncleChuck]

I get so damned tired of Garcia getting all skeeved out every time she has to display a bloody crime scene for the team.  Come on, Penelope...you've been doing this for more than a decade, about 1/4 of your precious princess life.  IRL any person doing her job would either get used to the blood and gore or would have quit about 200 cases ago.

And how much power does she wield at BAU anyway?  Morgan has been gone all this time and SHE refuses to allow Prentiss to reassign his office or change the furniture?????

[Danielg342]

11 hours ago, funandfitpt said:

Wow, they mentioned Vince Li. That happened right outside of where I live. If you don't know the story, google him, it's awful. 

I remember it too. You're right, it's just awful all around.

I think this case would have worked better if they followed Li's path. I could buy that Ferrell could manipulate a psychiatric ward that he's now completely healthy despite what he did, since that's what Li did (minus the manipulation...maybe).

The legal stuff was completely unnecessary and only served to muddy the waters.

[Pandorap]

I didn't know Moore would be making an appearance on the show and while I really enjoyed him as a character, (when he was a regular) having him appear in this episode really jolted me out of my show experience.  I felt like the whole part with he and Garcia was unnecessary and forced.  Having the team mention him every so often, or even having Garcia go off screen to have a phone conversation with him would be better than having him on screen for a few minutes of long drawn out dialogue that doesn't mean anything.  I just kept thinking that it would have been better to show us Garcia developing relationships with the many cast members we already have available.  Maybe Prentiss could be more of a "mothering" character, or Reid more of a "Brother" character or really any of them could have been shown caring and comfort and relationship development. Anyways, just my thoughts.

The unsub...meh.  I remember the original episode, and I wasn't very impressed with this sequel.  Why do they bother??  It kind of fell flat for me.  As others have mentioned, I too loved Rossi at the end!  So triumphant!

[funandfitpt]

13 hours ago, secnarf said:

It was awful. I remember when this happened, as well as his absolute discharge earlier this year. However, I was thoroughly annoyed by the comparison. AFAIK, Vince Li was not a serial killer - it was a one-time (albeit horrific) event. That case caused a huge amount of public outcry and panic, and certainly did nothing to help reduce the stigma associated with schizophrenia. Comparing this case to one so obviously different only serves to reinforce the notion that all people with schizophrenia are dangerous and should be locked up indefinitely. And aside from that, I really don't think the comparison makes any sense!

I agree with you. Vince Li was not a serial killer and what he did was awful, but not on the same level as this case.

[ReidFan]

8 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

 

And how much power does she wield at BAU anyway?  Morgan has been gone all this time and SHE refuses to allow Prentiss to reassign his office or change the furniture?????

that was kinda dumb IMO. IIRC, when Morgan left, Hotch offered that office to both Reid and JJ and they passed. (my memory's kinda dim as to the exact particulars, but it was mentioned in passing, in a conversation. There was no actual 'scene' in which this occurred) Hotch then said something about passing the office on to <some department whose name escapes me at the moment>. I think this happened in 'Tribute', the Emily guest stars episode that aired the week after ShemarMoore left. Which I really didn't like much so I've only seen it once. 

[Mariana]

30 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

that was kinda dumb IMO. IIRC, when Morgan left, Hotch offered that office to both Reid and JJ and they passed. (my memory's kinda dim as to the exact particulars, but it was mentioned in passing, in a conversation. There was no actual 'scene' in which this occurred) Hotch then said something about passing the office on to <some department whose name escapes me at the moment>. I think this happened in 'Tribute', the Emily guest stars episode that aired the week after ShemarMoore left. Which I really didn't like much so I've only seen it once. 

Yes, it was a deleted scene. 

[Chaos Theory]

I am still not sure why people hate Garcia and JJ the way they do.  I always felt it was a weird double standard.  Reid is quirky but everyone thinks he is adorkable while Garcia is annoying.  I bet if they used the exact same language to describe something people would still have different reactions to it.  JJ has always been penalized for having family based stories but Hotch was liked in large part because he was a good family me .A double standard.   

 

I never liked the Garcia/Morgan relationship but it seemed Garcia took more flack from it the Morgan did.  No one ever hated Morgan for calling Garcia “baby girl” but somehow liking when he did made her less.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Chaos Theory
Once again autocorrect is not my friend.

[ReidFan]

I don't 'hate' Garcia or JJ. What I do/did dislike  about JJ was the SuperDuperBetterThanEveryoneElseProfiler she suddenly became and how *everything* was always about her for a season and change. I believe some people felt there was a whole lotta MarySue-ing going on with her and I tend to agree. I *like* that she has a family that matters to her outside work. But I hated the way she treated Reid-- purportedly her 'best friend' -- back in the Forever People days, but we've talked that to death already. And she's much better now, the last season or so.

Garcia, OTOH,  is just overdone now, IMO. I adore the quirkiness of her. The need for cute kitty photos to assuage the gory stuff, I get it. The little pandas and trolls on her desk, I get it. The feeling that the other BAU members are her family, I get it. I love that she loves Reid and JJ and Prentiss. I love that she took on Emily's cat when Emily first left. But I think they've let her go *overboard* with the kitten ears and the too-high clunky heels and the reaction to gore. 

And I loved that in Lucky Strikes, she wanted to have everyone over to 'the homecave' to live life to the fullest, and pursue 'responsible intoxication' etc. *THAT* is the Garcia that I love.

[JMO]

31 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am still not sure why people hate Garcia and JJ the way they do.  I always felt it was a weird double standard.  Reid is quirky but everyone thinks he is adorkable while Garcia is annoying.  I bet if they used the exact same language to describe something people would still have different reactions to it.  JJ has always been penalized for having family based stories but Hotch was liked in large part because he  a good family fan.  A double standard.   

 

I never liked the Garcia/Morgan relationship but it seemed Garcia too more flack from it the Morgan did.  No one ever hated Morgan for calling Garcia “baby girl” but somehow liking when he did made her less.

I have always liked JJ, but think there was too abrupt a change in her when she came back as a profiler.  I don't  have any issues with her role in the field, only with the fact that we didn't see it evolve.  I didn't find anything in her fabricated back story that explained it, either.  I do like that the character has been trying to meld her softer side (she was never all that soft, to my eye) and her tougher side in recent seasons.  I think it suits her.

Garcia, on the other hand, has worn out her welcome with me.  The character we saw in the first few seasons was delightfully snarky, and bright, and smugly capable.  The character we get now is precious and wimpy and cartoonishly childish.  Just as happened for far too long with Reid ('the awkward, rambling genius'), it was as though the writers themselves dismissed her as 'the one who uses unprofessional language and is squeamish', end of character development.  

Portrayed well, characters evolve.  In my opinion, Garcia has devolved.  It is unfathomable to me why the actress seems to be content with that.

[Chaos Theory]

Don’t mind me.  I tend to judge a show almost entirely on its female cast.  Well initially at least.  I originally liked Criminal Minds because it had a respectable one.  Over the years though the show has become (in large part at least according to my interpretation) how the world effects men.    The women have almost become an afterthought.  

Then I may just be ready to tap out on the show.  

[Hotchgirl18]

2 hours ago, ReidFan said:

I don't 'hate' Garcia or JJ. What I do/did dislike  about JJ was the SuperDuperBetterThanEveryoneElseProfiler she suddenly became and how *everything* was always about her for a season and change. I believe some people felt there was a whole lotta MarySue-ing going on with her and I tend to agree. I *like* that she has a family that matters to her outside work. But I hated the way she treated Reid-- purportedly her 'best friend' -- back in the Forever People days, but we've talked that to death already. And she's much better now, the last season or so.

Garcia, OTOH,  is just overdone now, IMO. I adore the quirkiness of her. The need for cute kitty photos to assuage the gory stuff, I get it. The little pandas and trolls on her desk, I get it. The feeling that the other BAU members are her family, I get it. I love that she loves Reid and JJ and Prentiss. I love that she took on Emily's cat when Emily first left. But I think they've let her go *overboard* with the kitten ears and the too-high clunky heels and the reaction to gore. 

And I loved that in Lucky Strikes, she wanted to have everyone over to 'the homecave' to live life to the fullest, and pursue 'responsible intoxication' etc. *THAT* is the Garcia that I love.

JJ disgusts me. Literally disgusts me when she became a profiler. Hey, JJ go run an FBI office if you want to boss people around and bully others. 

[Annber03]

I've never had any issue with JJ and Garcia. I can see and understand some of the critiques/complaints people have had with them, or at least, the way they've been written, in recent years (same applies to whatever issues people have with the way the rest of the team's been written, too), but even with those issues, I still like them. I don't really get into the whole "Mary Sue" (or "Gary Stu") type talk with characters on TV, 'cause I think sometimes the criteria for what constitutes one can vary from person to person. 

To each their own, though. 

[ReidGirl]

3 hours ago, JMO said:

Garcia, on the other hand, has worn out her welcome with me.  The character we saw in the first few seasons was delightfully snarky, and bright, and smugly capable.  The character we get now is precious and wimpy and cartoonishly childish.  Just as happened for far too long with Reid ('the awkward, rambling genius'), it was as though the writers themselves dismissed her as 'the one who uses unprofessional language and is squeamish', end of character development.  

Portrayed well, characters evolve.  In my opinion, Garcia has devolved.  It is unfathomable to me why the actress seems to be content with that.

Exactly what I think, though you write it way better than me :)

The episode itself was good execpt the Morgan Garcia reunion scene which I felt very unnatural. I dont know why she can not talk to Reid, JJ or Prentiss who have also known her long enough. I used to like Morgan when he was part of the regular cast. Now he does not even act like Morgan any more. 

I also enjoy Reid and Luke working together. Way way too many team members, but we all have complained about it enough times already. 

[MommySusan1]

Has it ever been established exactly where Morgan lives now?  It seemed to me that he lived far away.  Why would he come all that way to just spend a few minutes at the BAU and then turn around and leave?  Or if he was close by, why wouldn't they see each other more often?  Was it established that Hank knew who Garcia was or that she had seen him in person?

I think Jamie Kennedy was great as the unsub.  Very creepy with the way he talked and his mannerisms.  It is almost like you could look at him and know he is guilty of something.  I am a big Ghost Whisperer fan and hated him on that show.  But I think what I hated about the way he played his character on Ghost Whisperer works perfectly for Criminal Minds.

[UncleChuck]

If Morgan had died and, in this episode, had returned to Garcia as a comforting ghost--the writers would not have had to alter a single word of that scene.  I'm still think it's possible that the whole visit just took place in her mind.