GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[UYI]

I had actually watched these scenes way before they started teasing Johnny and Lulu again, but since they are now I thought I would post them here. I keep wanting to tell Lulu that Dante will be there soon and Johnny won't even matter anymore. :)

 

JMB looks pretty here, too. I love her hair. :)

 

 

Edited January 8, 2015 by UYI

[ulkis]

She won an Emmy for those scenes.

 

I remember they had flirtatious scenes with her and Ethan after that. They had chemistry. One of the many reasons Ethan should not have been Luke's son.

 

I feel bad for how excited this person was for them to be kissing lol

 

[LeftPhalange]

I'm so confused about this Bill Eckert person. I wasn't watching during the 80s/90s so the only thing  really know about him is that he's Luke's lookalike cousin. Why would he want to steal Luke's life, work with the Legion of Doom, and takeover the mob? Is any of this even remotely believable or is Ron pulling a huge retcon? 

Edited January 8, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[LegalParrot81]

One of the best Bill/Sly scenes.  Geary really did know how to bring subtlety and substance to his acting once upon a time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQo_mL81dhI

[Harmony233]

I'm so confused about this Bill Eckert person. I wasn't watching during the 80s/90s so the only thing  really know about him is that he's Luke's lookalike cousin. Why would he want to steal Luke's life, work with the Legion of Doom, and takeover the mob? Is any of this even remotely believable or is Ron pulling a huge retcon? 

Huge recton.Bill never even met sonny either.

[jsbt]

ulkis, I just want you to know that when this page loaded I read that clip's title as "Luke and Ethan FIRST KISS!!"

 

I think TG is doing his best to differentiate Fluke, and sometimes it can be decent. I thought he was pretty alright yesterday. But this whole 'let me talk v e r y  s l o o o w l y and without affect and then people will know I am a sociopath' routine is just very self-conscious overall. Yes, Luke and Eckert were night and day in their brief scenes back in the '90s. But he wasn't just a psycho.

 

AFAIK Bill didn't hit Sly, but his callousness and neglect towards the long-suffering kid had become, like, a running joke by the end of his life. He loved him but he didn't often know how to relate. There are at least a half dozen scenes on YT where Sly's like, 'you're leaving again?'

Edited January 8, 2015 by jsbt

[KerleyQ]

ulkis, I just want you to know that when this page loaded I read that clip's title as "Luke and Ethan FIRST KISS!!"

 

 

Only if TG started filming his own fan fic videos. 

[dubbel zout]

Only if TG started filming his own fan fic videos.

 

I'm a little scared of what might result.

[ulkis]

Pfft dubbel zout. You just don't understand the art of Geary's vision.

[SlovakPrincess]

If that's the case, then all it has lead to is a pair of VERY shitty parents who clearly give zero fucks about their youngest daughter (and maybe even their offscreen oldest daughter) and everything she's been through (and I'm saying this as someone who's not really a Liz fan at all).

 

 

This isn't necessarily out of character, for Jeff at least.  He was kind of a selfish ass.  He slept with Diana while still married to Heather (who was in mental hospital at the time), and also while he was dating Anne.  Jeff later takes off with toddler Steven Lars to avoid Heather.   He tells Anne they'll be together soon ... but within a matter of months he's fallen for some lady offscreen, blown off Anne (who is still being harassed by Heather because of Jeff), and written to Heather to let her know he wants a divorce and full custody.  The guy just moves on, it's what he does.

 

Of course, Heather was a real piece of work.  Where I'm at in the 1981 episodes, Heather is all: "Ok, so I was in Diana's apartment the night she was murdered, and I admit I really, really wanted to kill her and planned to, and I remember framing Anne for the murder ... but I blacked out and don't remember actually killing Diana, so I'm probably innocent, and why won't anybody give me a chaaaaaannce?!  Why won't anybody belieeeeeve me?"    

 

There's a funny scene where she goes to see a lawyer to fight for custody (while still a murder suspect), and after hearing Heather out, the woman is like "um, no, your story is nuts and I'm not representing you."  

[Harmony233]

I loved old school Heather she was so entertaining where are you at in the clips?

[SlovakPrincess]

I loved old school Heather she was so entertaining where are you at in the clips?

 

I'm at early September 1981:  

 

- Heather was arrested, then released when the gun she had didn't match the bullet in Diana ... but everyone still suspects her.  Joe is all conflicted 'cause he's attracted to her, but also working the murder case.  

 

- Robert (with help from Tiffany) just snuck into the Cassadines' underground lair, to destroy the weather machine.  Luke and Laura realize he ditched them in the jungle for their own safety, to do the mission alone ... they're not happy about it.   

 

- Everyone in the Cassadines' lair has conflicting agendas and Mikkos has bugged everyone's room.  

 

- The residents of Port Charles are annoyed that it's blizzarding in September ... but they just think it's a weird fluke.  Only the WSB knows what's really going on, because Mikkos is making crazy demands to them and using that "average little city" of PC as an example of the damage he can do.

 

- Lesley and Rick bond and fall back in love while trying to find Laura.

 

- Monica has hired a PI to get proof that Alan knocked up Susan.  (I think the PI has a crush on Monica, and I hope I'm right!)

 

- A bunch of stuff with the mob trying to kill Hutch in prison.  Which ... eh.  He murdered other people before deciding not to carry out the hit on Luke and Laura and turning state's evidence, so my sympathy is limited. 

[Harmony233]

thanks one thing I miss about soap is back in the day they had such a variety of differnt stories you could enjoy if you didn't like one.

[LegalParrot81]

 

Jeff later takes off with toddler Steven Lars to avoid Heather.

 

In this instance, I don't blame him for bugging out with Steven Lars, considering the kid was three years old before Jeff knew he was alive.  Selling her kid was not one of Heather's shining moments.  

[Harmony233]

In this instance, I don't blame him for bugging out with Steven Lars, considering the kid was three years old before Jeff knew he was alive.  Selling her kid was not one of Heather's shining moments.  

LOL personally I liked that Heather didn't get stuck with a kid she got more interesting stories after she lost custody lol.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Harmony233

[TessHarding2]

I'm watching the Susan Moore Baldwin Murder now for the 500th time.  Juicy and well done from beginning to end. It's edited.  From Susan Moore (bio mom of Jason) being so confident and mean, to Scorpio working that murder scene, to Scott Baldwin (gorgeous with a beard) and Heather (here she's a very film noir stylized femme fatale) being devious greedy lovers,  to The Q's either sticking together or wanting to blame each other, it has it all. 

 

http://http://youtu.be/ozaZEvIw4AQ?list=PL19A7A697AC57E98E

 

I'm probably the only person that really enjoyed Bill Eckert and Holly as lovers.  For me it was more about Tony and Emma together again.

Edited January 9, 2015 by TessHarding2

[SlovakPrincess]

I watched a bunch of the '83 stuff a few years back. Now that I'm watching the stuff from '81, it's so funny to see the change in Susan over time.

In '81, Alan and Susan are nauseatingly sappy with each other in their love affair. By '83, she just straight up hates all the Qs and blackmails them. I guess when I watch the '82 episodes, I'll see Alan choose Monica and piss off Susan, lol. Can't wait to see how she ends up married to Scotty!

[bannana]

Question re Jenny Eckert.  Isn't she the one who had the affair with Julian?  I thought she died but here she is in Ned's rolodex.  Who am I thinking of?  Didn't they have a child and that child is Lucas?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Question re Jenny Eckert.  Isn't she the one who had the affair with Julian?  I thought she died but here she is in Ned's rolodex.  Who am I thinking of?  Didn't they have a child and that child is Lucas?

 

No. Tiffany's sister, Cheryl, is the one who had the affair with Julian, and Lucas is her child.

[Melgaypet]

Yeah. Jenny is one of Ned's many ex-wives, last seen married to Paul Hornsby, Dillon Quartermaine's father. I think she was the virgin. Or was that Dawn Winthrop?

[nilyank]

Jenny was the virgin until they introduced some politico Senator who Ned was courting to get an airport built in Port Charles. Turns out Jenny had a secret affair with the Senator years earlier. So she faked being a virgin. Why I don't know since Ned wouldn't have cared.

[Harmony233]

I watched a bunch of the '83 stuff a few years back. Now that I'm watching the stuff from '81, it's so funny to see the change in Susan over time.

In '81, Alan and Susan are nauseatingly sappy with each other in their love affair. By '83, she just straight up hates all the Qs and blackmails them. I guess when I watch the '82 episodes, I'll see Alan choose Monica and piss off Susan, lol. Can't wait to see how she ends up married to Scotty!

LOL this is pretty unpopular but although the susan moore murder mystery was good I'm kinda disappointed they killed off susan god knows she was more interesting than her son who we got stuck with lol.

[SlovakPrincess]

I like Susan, too! There's a point in the murder mystery when she's been killed and nobody knows where Baby Jason is. And Robert's all "we have to find that baby! We have to find Jason!" Watching it decades later, all I can think is: "can we not, actually?"

[Harmony233]

I like Susan, too! There's a point in the murder mystery when she's been killed and nobody knows where Baby Jason is. And Robert's all "we have to find that baby! We have to find Jason!" Watching it decades later, all I can think is: "can we not, actually?"

LOL In 82 and 83 Heathers hate for baby Jason is hilarous so is monicas for that matter lol.

[Francie]

Jenny was the virgin until they introduced some politico Senator who Ned was courting to get an airport built in Port Charles. Turns out Jenny had a secret affair with the Senator years earlier. So she faked being a virgin. Why I don't know since Ned wouldn't have cared.

 

The early 90s was still a time period when "good" women couldn't have sex for the sake of having sex. They had to remain "fairly" pure, and while they didn't have to wait until marriage, they did have to wait until some great love came along.  30-year-old concert pianist Katherine Delafield was a virgin.  Anna was shown to be a virgin when she and Robert first got together, and then the writers made it pain-sakingly clear that she didn't have sex again until Duke came along.  Holly was even introduced as a virgin, but then she loses it to Luke not because she's in love but because she was helping her family in a blackmailing scheme.  But she wound up loving him.   So I guess that made it okay in the writers' minds to allow her to attain heroine status.

 

This country sure has had some f***ed up views, no pun intended, toward a woman's sexuality.

[dubbel zout]

Were those women mocked for being virgins? Because that nurse, Annie Whatsit, took a lot of heat. (And still does; Bobbie mentioned something not too long ago about her.)

[Harmony233]

Were those women mocked for being virgins? Because that nurse, Annie Whatsit, took a lot of heat. (And still does; Bobbie mentioned something not too long ago about her.)

Anne Logan gosh she was annoying lol.

[Francie]

Were those women mocked for being virgins? Because that nurse, Annie Whatsit, took a lot of heat. (And still does; Bobbie mentioned something not too long ago about her.)

 

I was so young when I was watching then, so my memory may not be as accurate as others.  But having said that, no, Bobbie making fun of Anne for being a virgin is all on Ron and his buds who find it the height of hilarity to reference virginity as if that's all that defined her. It's about as sexist as those who view a woman as nothing more than a body part.  It's just more juvenile than seedy, as instead of having carnal thoughts, Ron can't handle talking about a woman's sexuality in an adult manner. All his Anne the virgin comments on twitter and the show just make him seem like a giggly tween who isn't mature enough yet to talk about a woman's sexuality.

 

Anne was involved in a long and drawn out storyline where she felt like she was being pressured into sex by someone who was pursuing her (Noah Drake? Jeff Webber?  Joe Kelly?).  If not pressured, she was debating it, and really wanted to wait to have sex until she was married.  It was not the topic de jure at the nurses station, I don't think.   In fact, that was still a time period where Bobbie wouldn't have dared to have attacked Anne for that because she self-shamed herself for having been a hooker in the past. 

 

So, yes, there was a storyline revolving around whether Anne would choose to lose her virginity, but no it wasn't played in a mocking kind of way.  In fact, it was kind of the opposite, where Anne was placed on a pedestal, and she was, at least to me, a bit insufferable for it.  The mocking is just how Ron mis-remembers it because he is a perpetual 12-year-old boy who clearly has shown that he thinks girls are icky.  Notice how the sex talk that he has Lulu and Maxie engage in center around how sexy the bodies of Dante and Nathan are.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Francie

[Tiger]

 

This country sure has had some f***ed up views, no pun intended, toward a woman's sexuality.

 

 

It still does.

 

Scratch that

 

 

This country has some f'ed up views on sexuality period.  

[Harmony233]

I think its sad the women were written better in the 80s than they are now.

[SlovakPrincess]

Anne wasn't mocked in the early 80s, but Jeff did get frustrated and sleep with Diana at one point. But mostly people respected her beliefs.

Of course, Anne was still dating a married man, since Jeff couldn't get a divorce from Heather while she was in the asylum and deemed incompetent. Not sure where that falls on the morality scale, since she was at least kissing a married man and cheering for his imminent divorce, even before everyone realized a mostly sane and competent Heather was still a bad Heather.

The emphasis on Jenny's virginity was pointless. Actually, Jenny was just pointless. Well, not pointless, but I never bought that Paul and Ned would be so into her.

Edited January 9, 2015 by SlovakPrincess

[Box305]

The emphasis on Jenny's virginity was pointless. Actually, Jenny was just pointless. Well, not pointless, but I never bought that Paul and Ned would be so into her.

 

No, you were right, she was pointless ;) 

[TeeVee329]

But having said that, no, Bobbie making fun of Anne for being a virgin is all on Ron and his buds who find it the height of hilarity to reference virginity as if that's all that defined her.

 

As I recall, she wasn't so much making fun of Annie being a virgin.  It was more of a, "She was a virgin, now she's a man-stealing bitch, how about that!" type thing.  I mean, don't get me, still stupid.

 

It does seem like soaps have done away with the Donna Martin caricature among their teen sets. 

[Francie]

No, you were right, she was pointless ;) 

 

 

So, so freakin' pointless.  Gloria Monty was definitely losing her edge when she made Jenny Eckert and Dominique (No. 1) her new ingénue leading ladies.  No charisma, no acting ability, and no raw talent to turn into something.

 

Jenny Eckert was supposedly to be this plucky girl next door whom the boys loved and the girls wanted to be.  Annoying is what she was. Mac first pursued her and then Ned and Paul actually fought over her.

 

Seriously, we were supposed to get behind and root for this:

 

http://youtu.be/PqetzFDkQLc?t=5m53s ?

 

Umm, yeah, no.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Francie

[Box305]

So, so freakin' pointless.  Gloria Monty was definitely losing her edge when she made Jenny Eckert and Dominique (No. 1) her new ingénue leading ladies.  No charisma, no acting ability, and no raw talent to turn into something.

 

Jenny Eckert was supposedly to be this plucky girl next door whom the boys loved and the girls wanted to be.  Annoying is what she was. Mac first pursued her and then Ned and Paul actually fought over her.

 

Seriously, we were supposed to get behind and root for this:

 

http://youtu.be/PqetzFDkQLc?t=5m53s ?

 

Umm, yeah, no.

 

The first Dominique was so bad. I also thought Paul and Mac were boring as well. That was not a good era for new characters. Ugh and Colin. What a toolbox. 

 

Edited: There is so much awful in that clip. My God. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Box305

[Francie]

Edited: There is so much awful in that clip. My God.

Muahahaha. 

 

You can play "find a vet" with it, too. Hint:  Other than Tiffany and Sean, they remain seated masking what are certain to be WTF looks.

[Harmony233]

The first Dominique was so bad. I also thought Paul and Mac were boring as well. That was not a good era for new characters. Ugh and Colin. What a toolbox. 

 

Edited: There is so much awful in that clip. My God. 

I hated how she got rid of a lot of characters I enjoyed.I loved Decker.

[Box305]

Muahahaha. 

 

You can play "find a vet" with it, too. Hint:  Other than Tiffany and Sean, they remain seated masking what are certain to be WTF looks.

 

I remember there being another scene with Colin who was quite possibly dancing and singing to his own video at the Outback and Tristan Rogers looked like he would rather be in a giant cheese grating machine than in that scene. 

[SlovakPrincess]

To be fair, that was the opening of Mac's club, which Faison crashed. Robert and Anna would have had grim looks on their faces because they'd seen him and he was in the club with them and their then-preteen daughter. They didn't want to ruin Mac's night but they were freaked out and told Robin to stay near them.

[Box305]

Meh, that's just an excuse, I think he would have had that look on his face anyway. Kidding!  

 

I suffered from so much second hand embarrassment while watching Colin. I was always so uncomfortable when he was on. That was when I decided to take a bit of a break from the show. I just hated everything about it. 

[ulkis]

IDK though. It seems kind of realistic to me that not knowing your father then finding him later is just as life changing as growing up with him as dad. To me it would be hard to have this fantasy father and find out who your real father is and NOT have some feeling about it. I would think he'd be curious enough to want to get to know him a little even if he is a bad guy and shot him in the chest before he knew who he was.

 

And while I realize all that past stuff with shooting and forgiving did happen in the end how can Dante's past be held too much against him b/c from all I've see he DID arrest his own father, put him in prison and hasn't said boo to him. So regardless of past actions he has grown and changed enough to do the right thing even towards his own father so why would he cut Johnny any slacking knowing the threat he posses to Lulu's change for the better as a person. Not to mention he's a dirtbag that faked his way out of prison by tarnishing a fellow officer's reputation and made Anna look bad.

 

 

The thing is too letting Sonny off was not Dante's sole reason for lying for Sonny. (Besides Maurice Benard Was Still on Contract and Was Going Nowhere-itis) Imo, Dante's main fault wasn't lying but his arrogance and his pride. He was building up a case against Sonny when he was undercover and wanted him to go down for that. Unfortunately for him (and Michael) it turned out Michael was the true culprit (he thought Sonny killed his wife (Sonny's wife) Claudia, but it was Michael).

[Cattitude]

I just can't get into any character's past being held against them until the end of time when they have obviously changed and doing something different now. And as I think you said one does not negate the other. Just b/c Dante wasn't hard and douchie to his own father for being a criminal doesn't mean he can never ever and forever not be that way towards other criminals, especially ones that pose a danger to his loved ones including his own son.

[jsbt]

Didn't he blow up Kristina?

[ulkis]

Who, Sonny? Almost. He meant to kill Johnny and put a carbomb under his car. Kristina was next to the car, or a couple feet away or something, because she was just bruised. She got rolled in on a stretcher but she was fine.

Now I have to share this. Serial Drama wrote an article on this conversation between Sonny and Brenda

 

Brenda: You would never shoot someone who had no chance of fighting back ever.
Sonny: I wish you hadn't said that. I did that.
Brenda: No.
Sonny: Listen, I shot my son. He's a cop.
Brenda: What do you mean, your son's a cop?
Sonny: I got his mother pregnant when she was in high school. She never told me and she never told him. Years later, he's assigned to take me down. It's a small world.
Brenda: And you shot him?
Sonny: I shot him the day he was going to arrest me. I liked him. I was impressed with him. But when I found out he was an undercover cop and he was playing with my kids, working my family...I had--I had to get rid of him and I did what you said I would never do, which is shoot a man who has no chance to fight back. The door opens, I hear his mother screaming, "You shot your own son".
Brenda: I'm so sorry. It must have been awful.

 

 

and someone wrote this in the replies:

 

Sonny: I mugged a nun.
Brenda: That was to protect your children!
Sonny: I pistol-whipped a kitten.
Brenda: I'm sure it was because you were desperate!
Sonny: I committed genocide.
Brenda: That must have been awful--for YOU!!

 

 

too funny.

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2010/09/sonny-with-a-chance-of-over-the-top-propping.html#more

[jsbt]

Who, Sonny? Almost. He meant to kill Johnny and put a carbomb under his car. Kristina was next to the car, or a couple feet away or something, because she was just bruised. She got rolled in on a stretcher but she was fine.

 

 

I'm still calling that blown up. I'm good with it.

 

I respect VM and Maurice's chemistry and I think even when she's got her tics and her silly shit she always brings him up on his game. I even think they still have it and might as well just be each other's endgame at this point - I think her whole last run made that clear. That being said, I never bought their turning her back onto him from Jax after the sophisticated way that triangle was written in the late '90s, and I think it is a regression for the character. Brenda would also never say that to him.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Oh yeah that day was slammed at the time. 

 

I coulda bought Brenda going back to Sonny - I think he was the love of her life - but he would have had to/have to get out of the mob. It was so frustrating, because I remember a lot of us at the time were like, oh, okay. This is how they're gonna start shoring up Sonny after shooting Dante, blowing up Kristina, almost killing Ethan, Brenda's gonna come back and she's gonna be horrified at his recent behavior and he's gonna realize he's turned into a monster and he's gonna start shaping up. But . . . no. We got that. Typical Guza. It was so frustrating because most of the audience could buy that Sonny would start fixing himself from Brenda, and it could have been good. But we got the Balkan and the non-secret of the baby. (Even if that baby had been allowed to stay Dante's, it would have been so stupid, because there would have been no good reason for Brenda to hide the baby if it were Dante's.) I actually liked a lot of stuff going on at that time but that was pretty bad.

 

I obviously still have a lot of irritation from that time, haha.

 

I'm still calling that blown up. 

 

 

Most people do, heh.

Edited January 9, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

Once upon a time I would've said she had properly moved on to Jax, but that was almost 20 years at this point and later events invalidated it. I do absolutely agree with you about what I thought they'd do with Brenda there, and what we got instead.

 

I think they are probably the loves of each other's lives (I once thought that could be Sarah Brown's Carly and I adored them together, but that iteration of that relationship is long gone), as much as Sonny can love anyone who's not himself. But I think their final big conversation before she left (below) was incredible work both from them and the writers, really excellent stuff, probably MB's best work in a long time, and encapsulated who Sonny really is. I also think those scenes put the lie to any writer bothering to seriously pair him in a romance with anyone else unless you resolve that key issue. I have no idea why anyone has bothered, because this said it all until Sonny chooses to change. The only one you can put him with is a woman who doesn't know him and is a trophy, or someone like Carly who deep down knows exactly what he is and doesn't care because they are too codependent.

 

[TeeVee329]

Question - Bobbie was still on the canvas when Bill Eckert was originally running around, right?  What was their relationship like?

[SlovakPrincess]

I think they were friendly, as cousins. But I think Bobbie was preoccupied with a lot of drama surrounding baby Lucas at that time.

That joke conversation between Sonny and Brenda kills me.

I could see Brenda going back to Sonny after returning from presumed death. Wasn't she all messed up because she thought she'd inherited her mothers genetic insanity or some damn thing, and her mom had tried to kill her ... but she came back alive in the early 2000s with some guy... ???

Honestly, all I remember is that Brenda's exit story in the 90s was crappy and her return made even less sense. And she's been emotionally damaged ever since.

[TeeVee329]

I could see Brenda going back to Sonny after returning from presumed death. Wasn't she all messed up because she thought she'd inherited her mothers genetic insanity or some damn thing, and her mom had tried to kill her ... but she came back alive in the early 2000s with some guy... ???

 

Yeah, when Brenda came back in 2002, she thought she was dying from her mother's illness, but it was a ruse Luis Alcazar cooked up to keep her with him.