GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Asp Burger]

1 hour ago, Melgaypet said:

I had to mute these scenes as I watched, and because of good acting, not the usual reasons! Lucky is just so cruel and cutting and Laura so hurt and blindsided, it's hard to take.

It was a brave story that asked hard questions and showed everyone in an unflattering light at times, either in the present or in reexamination of past behavior. It was the Gooze under Riche, right? I hated most of his second tenure (in the JFP/Frons years) so much. 

Jonathan still must have been 15 when those scenes were shot. Heavy lifting for a young actor, but he's so good.  

[UYI]

16 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

It was the Gooze under Riche, right? I hated most of his second tenure (in the JFP/Frons years) so much. 

 

It was, but a lot of the rape story is actually credited to Michele Val Jean, who is herself a rape survivor in real life. She's probably one of the few writers (maybe the only writer) who ever really cared about or liked Liz. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

@ulkis, I went looking for the scene we were talking about, and mea culpa, you were right, her slap didn't land:

(The not-slap is about at 12:30)

Side note: I had to mute these scenes as I watched, and because of good acting, not the usual reasons! Lucky is just so cruel and cutting and Laura so hurt and blindsided, it's hard to take.

This was brutal to rewatch.

[Asp Burger]

[Never mind. See "Ghosts of..."] 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Asp Burger

[ffwbe]

I only remember her mentioned a couple times after they figured out Stavros was her killer and it was by Alexis or Jax. I don’t think anyone’s mentioned her beyond a year after she died. It’s not surprising that she doesn’t get mentioned along with the Qs because even though they liked her, she was a distant relative with Lila who they only knew for 2 years. When they did that mixed marriage SL with Alexis/Jax/Ned/Chloe, Edward was the only one who questioned her marrying her “cousin” Ned so I don’t think she was supposed to be a close relative.

I think this tends to happen a lot with characters who get introduced as the new, hot thing. Most seem to flame out after a couple years and are never mentioned shortly after their death. Hoping that will be the case with Oscar.

On another note, I never got how she was supposed to be a viable soap character. They made her too perfect. Everyone In town loved her. Jax/Ned/Alexis became her instant best friends and were willing to rearrange their lives for her. It didn’t help that most of her scenes were with that quad who were already good characters but weren’t perfect. I remember a bunch of scenes of her being outraged or shocked over something one of them said. 

[ulkis]

Oh lord. I was trying to find the clip of Taggert interrupting Sonny and Carly's wedding and came across this stupidity, Taggert arresting Sonny but the demon sprite refusing to get off of Sonny:

 

[jsbt]

LOL. Such old school schlock.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, ffwbe said:

I believe that Sonny loved Brenda more than Carly so I guess they are both settling for the person who stuck around and don’t have to make any concessions for.

Nope. Mooby dumped Brenda at the altar and Maurice left the show for a year. When Mooby returned, Brenda was with Jax, and STAYED with Jax; said good-bye to Mooby's ass because she wasn't able to do it when he left. She and Jax were engaged when Brenda left the show and was "killed off" because she thought she had the same terminal illness her mother had. So when she returned, there was NO REASON for the FAKAKTA triangle with Jax and Mooby.

[coffee drinker]

Real Andrews responding to a tweet from BH fan about the history Taggert and Elizabeth have.  Well before the characters kiddos started dating.

 

[Asp Burger]

Does anyone have sex anymore? 

No, that isn't a board poll. I was just thinking it seems like ages since any couple had a "love scene." I mean one of those classic soap ones, the montages that were as explicit as they could get away with on daytime. Nikolas and Emily had a bunch of them when Tyler and Natalia were in the roles, and Maurice did them with various partners when Sonny was in his prime (and for some time thereafter).

Am I forgetting something, or are those just a thing of the past on GH? It seems like more recently, we just get the postcoital lolling about in bed.  

I'm not necessarily complaining, but under the last couple of writing regimes, the show has definitely become steam-free. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Asp Burger

[statsgirl]

Michael and Sasha had one in Puerto Rico but I couldn't turn away fast enough.

I think Willow and Chase had one too.

[ouinason]

Yeah, and Friz had one that I remember, I think for their first time, but you are right that they are thin on the ground.  What a shame too.  I don't even think that JaSam has had one since they reunited.  I may be wrong about that though because I don't watch them.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Does anyone have sex anymore? 

No, that isn't a board poll. I was just thinking it seems like ages since any couple had a "love scene." I mean one of those classic soap ones, the montages that were as explicit as they could get away with on daytime. Nikolas and Emily had a bunch of them when Tyler and Natalia were in the roles, and Maurice did them with various partners when Sonny was in his prime (and for some time thereafter).

Am I forgetting something, or are those just a thing of the past on GH? It seems like more recently, we just get the postcoital lolling about in bed.  

I'm not necessarily complaining, but under the last couple of writing regimes, the show has definitely become steam-free. 

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Michael and Sasha had one in Puerto Rico but I couldn't turn away fast enough.

I think Willow and Chase had one too.

3 hours ago, ouinason said:

Yeah, and Friz had one that I remember, I think for their first time, but you are right that they are thin on the ground.  What a shame too.  I don't even think that JaSam has had one since they reunited.  I may be wrong about that though because I don't watch them.

 

While I fast forwarded it, Jax and Neeeeeeeeeena had sex scenes, pre-during-post. BLECH.

 

[dubbel zout]

Are there more sex scenes on other soaps? I don't really mind not seeing sex on soaps because there's so much on other shows. A soap isn't the only place you're going to see it anymore.

[gp1999]

On 3/9/2020 at 10:24 AM, statsgirl said:

Michael and Sasha had one in Puerto Rico but I couldn't turn away fast enough.

I think Willow and Chase had one too.

The Michael and Sasha was pretty steamy and so was Willow and Chase's. I think we even saw Chase thrusting on Willow for a second which took me by surprise.

So I was looking at Taggert's wiki and it says that he was forced to leave town by Scott in 2003. What did Scott do that made Taggert leave?

[Asp Burger]

It's been a long time, but as I recall it, Scott was resorting to unethical measures in his anti-mob campaigning, and Taggert became an obstacle to that, because even though he hated Sonny and wanted him to go down, he wanted it done by the book so it would stick. Scott decided to get rid of Taggert, and was going to set him up as a "dirty cop" of the kind Scott was crusading to rid the PCPD of, and Taggert was disgusted and decided to take a job on the other coast. It was half-assed, the kind of story they tell when an actor isn't going to be there much longer.  

Edited March 11, 2020 by Asp Burger

[Asp Burger]

Remember when the big summer promo was something that didn't end up being much of a story? Liz with two of her eventual baby-daddies, circa 2002.  

To be fair, in the best romantic early-aughts GH fashion, Jason and Zander did join forces to shoot her.  

Liz is cursed. Fifteen years later, there were ads that had us thinking there was going to be a Franco/Liz/Griffin triangle, and that was even less a thing. 

[ouinason]

is that the summer she slept with Zander the first time?  I remember Jason's man pain over that being unwatchable.

[ulkis]

On 12/2/2019 at 12:04 PM, makelemons said:

i'm still shocked they reversed themselves... and then still tried to ax her again... i just understand what the higher ups have against her. she seems to showup, do her job, and flies under the radar (antics wise -- obviously she has a huge fanbase)

i guess it originally leaked ... but how?  I'm sure BH was contractually prohibited from telling anyone.... but it got out awfully quickly for her exit to still be months away

Before FV the actors usually announced their leaving months ahead.

Edited March 12, 2020 by ulkis

[Asp Burger]

I put this in the episode thread as it related to something on Friday's show, but watching it again, I'm reminded how much I had come to loathe Sonny and Carly by this point. That is, Sonny-and-Carly as smug tag team, separate from how horrible they could be individually.  I remember their fans just eating this scene up, though. I was completely on Laura's side.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cfgfBfSGn4

[Ambrosefolly]

Of course they think that way.  As long as the person isn't physically maimed, they haven't committed a crime. Carly really did sink Sonny as a character. Did Luke pay a visit to both of them for what Carly did to his ex-wife?

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Of course they think that way.  As long as the person isn't physically maimed, they haven't committed a crime. Carly really did sink Sonny as a character. Did Luke pay a visit to both of them for what Carly did to his ex-wife?

No. Luke was too busy trying to steal the Ice Princess with Roy in Turkey. At that point, Luke and Laura were doing their own stories until they eventually reunite.

[UYI]

On 3/12/2020 at 12:04 AM, ouinason said:

is that the summer she slept with Zander the first time?  I remember Jason's man pain over that being unwatchable.

No, that was in 2003 (Cam was born in early 2004). This promo is from the summer of 2002 (I was 13 years old then, yikes!). This would have been shortly before she met Ric. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by UYI

[Asp Burger]

But Cameron wasn't a product of Liz/Zander's first hook-up. He came from their Halloween '03 redux, when they were upset about Ric and Emily/Nik respectively. Jason didn't have man pain over that. He and Sonny's late sister had just married. 

The first go-round for Liz/Zander -- and Jason's angst over it -- was in summer 2002 when the pool-table promo ran. They got closer when they were locked in the crypt together, and they had sex at her studio a few weeks later. Jason showed up the next morning to tell Liz something about whatever nearby mob danger was going on, and of course Zander got the "heel" writing of walking up behind Liz and rubbing it in that he'd tapped that.

Miraculously, that encounter didn't result in a baby or miscarriage for Liz. Her haters overplay the bit about her having three children by three different men (I always think, "WGAF? She's a soap character with a 20+year history"), but it is remarkable that if her children with Ric and Jax had survived, it would be five. She'd be a sort of She-Sonny for fertility.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Asp Burger

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

three children by three different men

I don't think any character has had all of his/her kids with the same partner. It's a soap standard, especially when the characters have been around a while.

[nilyank]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think any character has had all of his/her kids with the same partner. It's a soap standard, especially when the characters have been around a while.

Felicia might be the only one.

[UYI]

10 hours ago, nilyank said:

Felicia might be the only one.

And even then, there was originally speculation that Georgie could be Mac's instead of Frisco's. 

 

[bubble sparkly]

Robyn is also one of the few, although her HIV status may be the reason for that since it was a lot harder for the writers to have her hook up with anyone other than Patrick.

[Benji]

I wasn't really watching way back when, when they first met. Why does Jason care about Carly so much ? And think she's actually a good person ? Didn't she cheat on him with Sonny ? I have a vague recollection of seeing an episode of that many years ago.

[dubbel zout]

30 minutes ago, Benji said:

Why does Jason care about Carly so much ?

Because she showed up on his doorstep with a baby Michael asking for help. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Because she showed up on his doorstep with a baby Michael [in utero] asking for help. 

There. I added the missing information that provides...context?😝

Edited April 9, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[dubbel zout]

Oh, right, Carly hadn't given birth yet. She glommed onto Jason and hasn't let him go since.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Oh, right, Carly hadn't given birth yet. She glommed onto Jason and hasn't let him go since.

If I recall correctly, she birthed her spawn a few days later? Jason found her passed out on the floor of his place when he came home. 

[dubbel zout]

Obviously I have no recollection, LOL.

[UYI]

Here's the scene from 1997: Carly, showing up on Jason's doorstep, soaking wet and pregnant.

 

[UYI]

Robin brought it up when telling AJ he was Michael's father in 1999, saying how Carly loves to tell the story because "it makes him sound like some sort of savior."

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Watching those clips makes me SO SO BITTER because it shows how GOOD this soap used to be. And I dare anyone to throw the label “Perfect Robin” as a criticism or derogatory claim after watching that conversation with AJ. AWESOME TRUTHTELLING! Billy Warlock was just great.

I also loved the unhappy look on Jason’s face as SheBeast stood there, feeling as if he HAD to take her in. Friends? My ASS. I rather believed Robin saying how she convinced Jason they were friends.

But yeah, couldn’t believe how Robin continued to defend Jason. But I can because she was still in love with him. But #TEAMROBIN4EVER!

[Francie]

On 9/19/2019 at 11:57 AM, TheMediaHo said:

Monty was very clear when she returned that she wanted to take the focus off the very wealthy, and so she created the blue-collar Eckert family. As it turned out, the audience, craving escapism, preferred the lifestyles of the rich and famous to those of regular folks working hard to put food (and baked goods) on the table. I'm sure TPTB were inundated with negativity from focus groups. Adios, Eckerts...they lasted well past their sell-by date!

I've read/heard this a lot: That viewers in 1992 revolted because they didn't want to watch a blue collar family.  Speaking personally for myself and my friends at the time, it wasn't about the fact that the Eckerts were blue collar. And we didn't watch GH like it was some sort of Dynasty rip off.  GH was never about lavish gowns and jewelry and jet setting.  The Quartermaine house set was just another set to me. And its main inhabitants were two married doctors, a crumudgenous old man, and the most down-to-earth grandmotherly figure ever.  Sure, the Quartermaines were wealthy, but there was no escapism into their so-called lush and lavish lifestyle.  Their "help" backtalked them or were part of the family just as much as any butler or maid on shows like Mr. Belevedere or Brady Bunch. 

Rather, what was so annoying about the Eckerts was this idea that we were supposed to instantly care about them.  The show suddenly revolved around them. It was like when a popular sitcom has a hidden pilot episode shoved into it -- like that episode of the Brady Bunch that was about Ken Berry and his wife choosing which of 3 kids to adopt or the Empty Nest pilot that aired as a Golden Girls episode.  We just wanted our favorite characters front and center again, not those five people (Bill, Jenny, Sly, mom and pop -- oh and there was the nun aunt, too, just so they could have a random habit outfit available).  The Eckerts were like an infestation. It had nothing to do with their class status (besides their house was HUGE! and they were business owners, so ... whatever about them being blue collar). 

[Asp Burger]

On the Eckerts and related matters, here is an interesting 1991 Entertainment Weekly piece about a tumultuous time at GH. 

https://ew.com/article/1991/07/12/behind-scenes-drama/

Say what you want about Gloria Monty, good or bad, but I wish someone there today were giving notes like ”Without your realizing it, this character is becoming terribly unpleasant.” Guza would probably have considered that to mean "mission accomplished."

[ffwbe]

That has happened so many times on soaps and there’s almost always a backlash. You can’t introduce a new family, put them front and center, and expect the audience to instantly care about them. People get annoyed because their faves either get backburned or get stuck propping a newbie rather than getting to lead a storyline. It works better when characters are slowly introduced. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by ffwbe

[nilyank]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

We just wanted our favorite characters front and center again, not those five people (Bill, Jenny, Sly, mom and pop -- oh and there was the nun aunt, too, just so they could have a random habit outfit available). 

People wanted to see Anthony Geary playing beloved Luke not some knock-off cousin that we never heard who started as down to earth blue collar but ended being some rich guy  a  shitty father with a terrible attitude. Not knowing that when Luke finally does show up in Port Charles again that he too would eventually turn into a shitty father with a terrible attitude.

The best thing about the Eckerts was Sly and I am forever saddened that Sly and Lucky did not continue to grow up together into the best of friends and cousins.

Edited April 11, 2020 by nilyank

[sppa125]

On 3/27/2020 at 6:37 PM, Asp Burger said:

I put this in the episode thread as it related to something on Friday's show, but watching it again, I'm reminded how much I had come to loathe Sonny and Carly by this point. That is, Sonny-and-Carly as smug tag team, separate from how horrible they could be individually.  I remember their fans just eating this scene up, though. I was completely on Laura's side.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cfgfBfSGn4

I don't think Carly was right to lock her on the roof, but I also wasn't a fan of the way Laura handled the Deception company. She decided Elizabeth was going to be the face from the onset, and only pretended to give Gia a chance to keep Carly feeling like she had a say in the company to make Sonny happy. I didn't think that was fair to Gia. Although really the whole thing could've been avoided if Liz was just honest and said she didn't want the job to begin with. Although Sonny was moronic to think the Laura and Carly partnership would work in the first place.

Edited April 11, 2020 by sppa125

[dubbel zout]

58 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

It works better when characters are slowly introduced. 

And this doesn't mean we see the backs of their heads for two weeks or more. Ahem, REBECCA.

I think a decent introduction of a new character was Trina's mom. It was dumb we'd never seen her before, but at least she was mentioned and we had a vague idea she existed offscreen. Yes, Portia came on too strong, but she was dealing with her ex-husband's death and the aftermath. At least there was a reason for that reaction. She had scenes connected to Taggert's death and Trina grieving, then she went away for a while. We didn't see her day after day. 

It helps that she's a supporting character, so her establishment can go a little slower anyway.

[nilyank]

49 minutes ago, sppa125 said:

I don't think Carly was right to lock her on the roof, but I also wasn't a fan of the way Laura handled the Deception company. She decided Elizabeth was going to be the face from the onset, and only pretended to give Gia a chance to keep Carly feeling like she had a say in the company to make Sonny happy. I didn't think that was fair to Gia. Although really the whole thing could've been avoided if Liz was just honest and said she didn't want the job to begin with. Although Sonny was moronic to think the Laura and Carly partnership would work in the first place.

Neither Laura or Carly had any real qualification for running a multimillion dollar company like Deception. Hell, neither did Lucy who created the company after she went on a trip to France and discovered how perfume was made. But that is the way of soap careers. People usually fall into glamorous careers that they are not trained for because the show wants them to be schmoozing and going to fancy parties. 

We rarely get to see anyone going to school  over a period of time to get ready for their careers. For example, one day, Liz turned out to be secretly going to school to get her nursing degree. Lucky secretly spent months at the police academy. Or girl reporter writing an article for the school blog and thinking she is a JOURNALIST.

For the last couple of years, TJ has been in medical school for the last couple of years. Molly graduated from college as is a first year law student. If/when they become doctor/attorney, they would have actually done it in real time.

[Asp Burger]

That 2000-01 revival of Deception, pitting Laura against Carly, wasn't told very well, I agree. I'm not sure who got it rolling, whether it was Guza or the Korte/Val Jean interim team, but whichever was the case, Megan McTavish showed no interest in running with that particular ball when she took over. Shortly after the Gia/Liz rivalry over the modeling job ended (anticlimactically), Sonny handed all of Carly's shares over to Laura, explaining that there was a clause in the contract that if Carly left him or "betrayed" him, she forfeited her stake in the company. Her plotting with Roy to make Sonny an FBI informant counted as betrayal.

I remember the day the TB Carly showed up at the Deception office expecting to pick up where she'd left off, and getting so angry when Laura told her she was no longer part of Deception. And as much as I hate Carly, what a typical dick move from Sonny, letting her find out that way. 

With Carly gone, it just petered out. We stopped hearing about it. Gia's stories started to be about things other than modeling, mostly her supporting role in the Stavros/Endgame story. There may have been a half-assed scene of Laura telling Scott she didn't enjoy running a cosmetics company anymore.

It could have been a good story, but it ended up just being one that kept some characters busy for a few months with things that weren't important at all in retrospect. 

[Harmony233]

The original creation of deception was a better build up although Lucy did leave for awhile then they had Scotty and Julia Barrett and Dominique working together to run it of course this was when Scotty and Dominique fell in love.

[UYI]

I just found this and had to share it:

This tornado watch from 1979 is from WTVW-TV, channel 7 in Evansville, Indiana (then the ABC affiliate, now the FOX affiliate; WEHT-TV channel 25 is Evansville's ABC affiliate today). At the very end of the clip, it goes back to regular programming...GH's June 29th, 1979 broadcast, in the middle of the scene where Luke, wearing some very ugly glasses for reasons I can't explain, congratulates Scotty & Laura on their engagement (or they might have already gotten married by then, I'm not sure).

(And yes, I AM the kind of the person who likes watching random old local TV station clips, shut up!)

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by UYI

[GHScorpiosRule]

39 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Me too!!  Even the beginning, when Nik and Britt show up, looking for, what was then, baby Ben.  Then  Nik finds Robin.  Man, that was just awesome.  Kim and Tyler brought it.  And as much as I don't hate Marcus' version of Nikolas, there really is no comparison.  TC really is Nikolas Cassadine.    The Britt/Faison scenes were excellent too.  I miss that with the dreck we see now.  

 

 

 

When I see this Nikolas, the real Nikolas? This guy wouldn't take SHIT from Mooby. Wouldn't try and justify his actions to that little thug.

That said, it irked me a bit that he was more concerned about finding Britt, then taking Robin with him; that she had to argue that she wouldn't be left behind.

12 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

And then there was Maxie finding out Robin was alive....

 

GOD. I miss Robin so damn much.

[perkie1968]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

When I see this Nikolas, the real Nikolas? This guy wouldn't take SHIT from Mooby.

That was my first thought when I rewatched that scene, last night after having watched the Nik/Sonny scene yesterday.  If the writing forced Nikolas to not say anything, Tyler would have at least given one of his smirks as he stormed off.  Poor Marcus's direction was to accept what was being said and how it was being said to him, and then slither out with his tail between his legs because he's been told by the almighty one.  

[Asp Burger]

Of course, Tyler spent much of his last six months on the show as a punching bag for Jason. (Really, "Drew," although that wasn't what they were writing at the time.) They enjoyed putting him in that situation so much that they did it three times, and each was a more brutal and humiliating beat-down than the last.