GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[UYI]

Since this was 20 years ago around this time of year, here's Lucky's memorial service:

[UYI]

And by sheer coincidence, I just found this. It aired 20 years ago yesterday.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I seem to recall that Laura was around before Stone died. Yet she wasn’t at his memorial. Was Genie on maternity leave?🤔🤔

God. Watching that and seeing all those beloved faces and characters and the wonderful set, just breaks my heart.  Because 99% are gone and the sets today are cheap as FUCK.

[Dr.OO7]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

seem to recall that Laura was around before Stone died. Yet she wasn’t at his memorial. Was Genie on maternity leave

Not exactly. She had asked for some time off to spend with her family.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Camille

[Asp Burger]

I loved that stretch of shows (Lucky's "death") so much. There were times in the Jacob Young years (and to a lesser extent the Greg Vaughan years) when I wished they had just let me have my memories. One kind of sadness had given way to another kind!

Fortunately, there was the brief Katherine Bell appearance to keep me from getting too nostalgic.  

It gets said a lot, but Rebecca Herbst's face really hasn't changed much in 20 years. In some ways I think she looks better now. In those 05/13/99 scenes, the makeup department was overdoing the porcelain-complexion look on her. They made her look doll-like. She was stunning in one of the current week's shows, just attending that dumb school thing when the homophobes complained about the book. Not even a formal occasion. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 5/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, UYI said:

This I agree with. I don't want Michael being the hell demon he was when Chucky played him, but if he were even a bit more flawed I'd be fine with that. 

I guess Morgan being dead is a sign of what being Sonny & Carly's kid can do to you, so there's that, at least. 

Oh but that's all Ava's fault, not Sony's.

[IWantCandy71]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:23 AM, Asp Burger said:

It gets said a lot, but Rebecca Herbst's face really hasn't changed much in 20 years. In some ways I think she looks better now. In those 05/13/99 scenes, the makeup department was overdoing the porcelain-complexion look on her. T

She said once in an interview that she uses Aquaphor face cream. IDK if she still does, but she isn't wrong-that is good stuff. I believe Nicole Kidman and several other actresses have admitted to using it. Very good for dry skin all over, and the delicate skin on your face, neck, hands, around your eyes, your décolletage area, etc. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by IWantCandy71

[UYI]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:23 AM, Asp Burger said:

 In those 05/13/99 scenes, the makeup department was overdoing the porcelain-complexion look on her. They made her look doll-like.

I agree. She looked a little too much like a ghost. The same thing happens when she wears an outfit that's a little TOO white, especially a large jacket. (And yet she always looks perfect in a white wedding dress. Go figure.) 

6 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

She said once in an interview that she uses Aquaphor face cream. IDK if she still does, but she isn't wrong-that is good stuff. I believe Nicole Kidman and several other actresses have admitted to using it. Very good for dry skin all over, and the delicate skin on your face, neck, hands, around your eyes, your décolletage area, etc. 

She used to be the spokeswoman for Purpose face wash, too. Her ads used to appear in Soap Opera Digest a decade ago. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by UYI

[IWantCandy71]

35 minutes ago, UYI said:

She used to be the spokeswoman for Purpose face wash, too. Her ads used to appear in Soap Opera Digest a decade ago. 

Purpose face wash ? I guess I don't know that brand, do they still make it ? If they do, I wonder if she still uses it.

But yeah, she's got great skin. 

[dubbel zout]

Purpose is still around.

[UYI]

10 minutes ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Purpose face wash ? I guess I don't know that brand, do they still make it ? If they do, I wonder if she still uses it.

But yeah, she's got great skin. 

Yes. I used it for a period of time myself.

Here's a link to it:

https://www.cvs.com/shop/purpose-gentle-cleansing-wash-12-oz-prodid-1160144

[IWantCandy71]

Thank you for the information UYI and dubbel zout. I may look for it at the CVS here, or see if they can get it in but I don't think it's the kind of thing I'd order online just to try, though.

[ouinason]

I personally always found it hysterical that after finally recovering from that insane period after his brain damage, Michael has turned into such a nice guy that Sonny sometimes seems severely annoyed by it.  He broke his little asshole chucky doll!!

Morgan was EXACTLY what I expected CarSon Spawn to be.  Joss obviously favors her father.  Kristina... there is a lot of neurotic on the Cassidine side is all I'm saying.  

The younger Davis girls are all Alexis, more's the pity.  Molly would be ruling the world if she could channel her father just a little bit.  Not a lot, cause Ric runs on the crazy side.

[ulkis]

Quote

Some examples are Jason telling Carly he will always find her (she asked "how did you find me" after Ryan left her to freeze to death), Carly mentioning Shiloh as a danger to Sam/Kristina in one conversation and Oscar dying in another conversation and Jason's response both times was that he's concerned about her and her baby and Josslyn.  (So nice of Jason to give a damn that his own mother was about to lose a grandson. And not to be cold, but that should be more important because Joss is only 15 - she will have at least a couple more great loves in the future.) He tells Carly "I love you too" when she says ILY.

What was Jason doing when his wife Sam was pregnant with Danny? Implying she could get an abortion, riding his motorcycle wherever and shutting Sam out, and being passive when she moved out to be on her own in her 3rd trimester since he couldn't tell her he would definitely love the baby. This was when they didn't know whether the baby would be Jason's or Franco's, not that there was no way Jason could be the father.

Jason was feeling guilt and fear over not being able to raise Franco's child. Should he have lied and told Sam he was fine when he could have potentially fallen apart? I doubt Jason would have felt particularly thrilled if he thought Carly was having Franco's child either. And he eventually bucked up and supported her. Sure, it was just because Steve Burton was about to leave the show but you could say he was uncertain about raising Danny because they wanted to pair Sam and McBain just as easily.

[Asp Burger]

Face from the past: Remember JZ's '90s run as Excedrin spokesperson? 

[Bringonthedrama]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:05 PM, ulkis said:

Jason was feeling guilt and fear over not being able to raise Franco's child. Should he have lied and told Sam he was fine when he could have potentially fallen apart? I doubt Jason would have felt particularly thrilled if he thought Carly was having Franco's child either. And he eventually bucked up and supported her. Sure, it was just because Steve Burton was about to leave the show but you could say he was uncertain about raising Danny because they wanted to pair Sam and McBain just as easily.

There is a huge difference between being uncertain about his feelings regarding the child and discussing that with his wife honestly - versus treating his wife like she was this unclean thing he didn't want around and actually verbalizing that she could get rid of the baby. She was trying to connect with him and needed to know he loved her unconditionally (after all, they made vows to each other unlike his relationship with Carly), and his reaction was to behave like those vows never happened/didn't matter. All he cared about was his own anger and disgust, fear and guilt. He wasn't checking up on her at the hotel when she got settled after moving out of the penthouse, out of worry that she was alone during her third trimester. He started to buck up and support her after she'd given birth and Danny had been kidnapped/switched with the dead baby.

I agree that he wouldn't have been thrilled about Carly being pregnant with Franco's child, but with the relationship they've had I have no doubt he would have said, "It's all going to be okay, I'm always here for you, you let me deal with anyone who makes you feel bad about this pregnancy."

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I agree that he wouldn't have been thrilled about Carly being pregnant with Franco's child, but with the relationship they've had I have no doubt he would have said, "It's all going to be okay, I'm always here for you, you let me deal with anyone who makes you feel bad about this pregnancy."

I have doubt.

Exhibit A:

[movingtargetgal]

The reason Carly had feelings for Alcazar was because of her coma dreams.  Her coma was due to Sonny shooting her in the head while she was giving birth to Morgan.  Sonny and Jason could not forgive her for betraying them.

Edited June 2, 2019 by movingtargetgal

[GHScorpiosRule]

52 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

The reason Carly had feelings for Alcazar was because of her coma dreams.  Her coma was due to Sonny shooting her in the while she was giving birth to Morgan.  Sonny and Jason could not forgive her for betraying them.

Shooting her in the...?

Head?🤪

[movingtargetgal]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

55 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

The reason Carly had feelings for Alcazar was because of her coma dreams.  Her coma was due to Sonny shooting her in the while she was giving birth to Morgan.  Sonny and Jason could not forgive her for betraying them.

Shooting her in the...?

Head?🤪

Thanks GHScorpiosrule, I fixed it.  :) 

[Asp Burger]

I watched that whole noxious scene expecting to hear Jason's classic line "How much more do you expect Sonny to take?" As Guza/TBCarly-era lines go, that's almost as notorious as Sonny's "Shut that baby up!" But it must have come earlier in the story. 

Now, I've almost always thought Steve Burton was a boring, coast-prone actor in the Jason Morgan period. (I was not around for his Jason Q.) Once in a while, a female costar would wake him up. McCullough, Herbst, and (weirdly) Vanessa Marcil all could do it. However, in that scene above, he appeared to be trying in a way that seems very distant. I've never seen him show that much intensity in the period of Laura Wright's Carly.

On the other hand, I buy affection more between him and the LW Carly. He was more "real" with TB's version, but not necessarily in a good way. It often seemed he couldn't stand her. 

[jsbt]

The way Jason treated Carly during the Lorenzo period made me want to put his head through a wall. It was beyond disgusting. Deep down he's always had contempt for her, at the very least since she slept with Sonny. Their relationship is based in the fundamental belief that he knows better than/for her and is better. He gets off on controlling her, keeping her at bay, managing and judging her.

Edited June 2, 2019 by jsbt

[Oracle42]

I've always felt like he'll drop everything for Carly's children, not because Carly matters so much to him - but because he doesn't trust her with them. I don't know if that's an idea he subconsciously adopted after her PPD with Michael but I'm sure Carly is aware of it. It's why she always uses her children instead of herself when she wants his attention

Edited June 3, 2019 by Oracle42

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

On the other hand, I buy affection more between him and the LW Carly. He was more "real" with TB's version, but not necessarily in a good way. It often seemed he couldn't stand her.  

LW always roots for the home team. TB wanted out.

[HeatLifer]

I’ve always thought Jason couldn’t stand any version of Carly, regardless of who was playing her. SBu frequently looks annoyed, irritated, and mostly had a scowl on his face during his character’s scenes with her. To be completely candid, I only noticed this changing once SBu recently returned, and a part of me wonders if it was because KeMo’s lack of affection. Hence all this lovey dovey Jarly crap, plus the actors’ BFF Tour. Like, SBu would never have done that shit years ago. He was always busy promoting his romantic pairings with either Sam or Liz. 

[statsgirl]

That was a very interesting clip.  "Well if it's physical, you don't have to act out on it; you can choose what you do."

That's quite some hypocrisy, Jason, considering how you excuse Sonny everything.

"I will do anything for you. But I'm not going to lie to Sonny."

So, not anything.

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

The way Jason treated Carly during the Lorenzo period made me want to put his head through a wall. It was beyond disgusting. Deep down he's always had contempt for her, at the very least since she slept with Sonny. Their relationship is based in the fundamental belief that he knows better than/for her and is better. He gets off on controlling her, keeping her at bay, managing and judging her.

I think Jason has contempt for everyone other than Sonny and Spinelli (Michael he protects), and he believes that he knows better than  everyone and controls at will.

I don't know about before the accident but since then, he's judged everyone, from AJ not being a good enough father, to the Quartermaines for wanting him back to random people just because.

His much-praised attitude to Sam of letting her do what she wants has always seemed to me to be more about not caring enough about her to put himself out for her. If he really wanted to be back with her, why isn't he wooing her to get back together, as every other man on the show does, instead of staying distant from more than a year until she is the one to ask him to move back in? And the time when Sam needed him the most, when she was afraid that she was pregnant by Franco, he pushed her away and told her to get an abortion.

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

why isn't he wooing her

Jason doesn't woo. His default is usually, "I'll do it if you want me to." Like a lot of the men in soaps, the women do the heavy lifting in relationships.

[statsgirl]

Right now we have Finn, Peter and Valentin wooing, and Curtis threatening Ryan to save his wife's life. In comparison, Jason looks like a dud.

[dubbel zout]

Jason is a dud. Why any woman would be attracted to him is beyond me. He's a killer, Sonny/Carly/Michael will always come first, and he's an intellectual void.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Jason doesn't woo. His default is usually, "I'll do it if you want me to." Like a lot of the men in soaps, the women do the heavy lifting in relationships.

Except with Robin. Until SheBeast returned from that mental institution and started The Cottage of Hell Saga.

[dubbel zout]

The exception that proves the rule.

[UYI]

17 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Face from the past: Remember JZ's '90s run as Excedrin spokesperson? 

YES I DO! I was 10! 😄 

[UYI]

6 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Now, I've almost always thought Steve Burton was a boring, coast-prone actor in the Jason Morgan period. (I was not around for his Jason Q.) Once in a while, a female costar would wake him up. McCullough, Herbst, and (weirdly) Vanessa Marcil all could do it. However, in that scene above, he appeared to be trying in a way that seems very distant. I've never seen him show that much intensity in the period of Laura Wright's Carly.

Vanessa Marcil is probably the show's most famous chemistry magnet ever (romantic or otherwise), so that actually makes sense to me. 

[UYI]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Jason is a dud. Why any woman would be attracted to him is beyond me. He's a killer, Sonny/Carly/Michael will always come first, and he's an intellectual void.

And also--YMMV, of course--he's not hot. At all. I've used two terms to describe his looks in the past--Cigar Store Indian, and human pencil. 

How ANYONE could prefer Jason, especially when BW played AJ, I'll never fully understand. But again, mileage varies. 🙂 

Edited June 3, 2019 by UYI

[Oracle42]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

And the time when Sam needed him the most, when she was afraid that she was pregnant by Franco, he pushed her away and told her to get an abortion. 

 to be fair to the jasebot, I don't actually think that was in character for Jason*. I think it was primarily due to the fact that RC wanted to do the Sam/McBain relationship and Jason/Sam were too popular to be broken up without a lot of damage.

*His reaction was actually too human to be in character, while also being void of the guilt/self-blame that would've at least given color to an OOC reaction

[Oracle42]

10 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Like, SBu would never have done that shit years ago. He was always busy promoting his romantic pairings with either Sam or Liz. 

KeMo should've  asked him for tips on maintaining two warring fanbases without getting shat on for playing the character in the middle of the triangle.

[Hater]

9 hours ago, UYI said:

And also--YMMV, of course--he's not hot. At all. I've used two terms to describe his looks in the past--Cigar Store Indian, and human pencil. 

How ANYONE could prefer Jason, especially when BW played AJ, I'll never fully understand. But again, mileage varies. 🙂 

This.   It really distracts me in scenes when his face looks like its melting off.   But women lost their mind for years over that.  Ok.

Not to mention the wardrobe that he uses in real life too. But yea this is GH's leading male!  

Edited June 3, 2019 by Hater

[jsbt]

I thought Jason's reactions to Sam's pregnancy and John McBain were refreshing and interesting in that they were human and flawed. I still slammed him for his behavior, but I thought they suited the obtuse, criminal character who has not faced being compromised emotionally on a family level,* or with losing a woman to another man, since Carly in the '90s. Everyone and everything since has been on his terms, and Carly has become subservient to him and subject to his judgment as penance. Sam's maybe-rape, Sam's pregnancy possibly by another man, and Sam entertaining a close friendship with another man and wanting a life outside of Jason's scope of reference, were all things beyond his control. Jason had not been wrong or irrational in over a decade. When something challenged his world, he used his power to try to make it go away.

The day to day writing for Jason/Sam/John may have been poor, especially early on. But the emotional/character beats I had little complaint with. Because if he'd stayed in 2012, that reunion in November would either not have lasted or would not have happened at all. Ron Carlivati loved to give couples false reunions and then deconstruct them completely. Jason/Sam would likely never have been over per se, but he would've lost his wife to McBain for a time at some point.

(* - and, as sick as it is, I do believe there was a sexual/cuckold element to the crisis Jason faced with potentially raising Sam's baby by another man/his worst enemy, even by rape.)

Edited June 3, 2019 by jsbt

[Asp Burger]

I think Jason as played by Burton has become more robotic and aloof with the years. There was the mention above of McCullough/Robin as the exception to his usual, but I also think that in the early days of Liason (when Burton was about to leave the show, and in his brief returns in 2000 and 2001), he was less passive than he is now. He was doing more of his part (both the actor and the character) to convince that there was a mutual connection, rather than just standing there and letting the woman flutter around him like a pigeon to a statue. I can't remember much about how he acted with SWSNBN, because...well, you know, the mind sets up defense mechanisms. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did more to sell that too. 

I think the reason I dislike Burton and Monaco together so much is that he absolutely needs a woman who is willing to bring a lot of the energy to the scenes, because he and the writers, in concert, have boxed the character in so much. And who's his one true indestructible love on the show? Sam, played by the sleepiest, lowest-energy, most indifferent actress in the cast...who now doesn't even want to be paired with him, and so is giving even less in their scenes together than usual. Riveting! 

Just because I know Jason is going to remain focal, and that this time Burton is probably going to stick around in the role until the lights get shut off, I wish they would put him with anyone else. Carly. Hayden. NuNina. Aunt Stella. I'm not picky here. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Asp Burger

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Carly. Hayden. NuNina. Aunt Stella. I'm not picky here. 

I don't want to wish that on my girl, but I have a hunch she could wake him up. They did do a What If episode together. Granted, that was as Greenlee, but still.

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

 I can't remember much about how he acted with SWSNBN, because...well, you know, the mind sets up defense mechanisms. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did more to sell that too. 

He did not.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I think Jason as played by Burton has become more robotic and aloof with the years. There was the mention above of McCullough/Robin as the exception to his usual, but I also think that in the early days of Liason (when Burton was about to leave the show, and in his brief returns in 2000 and 2001), he was less passive than he is now. He was doing more of his part (both the actor and the character) to convince that there was a mutual connection, rather than just standing there and letting the woman flutter around him like a pigeon to a statue. I can't remember much about how he acted with SWSNBN, because...well, you know, the mind sets up defense mechanisms. But I wouldn't be surprised if he did more to sell that too. 

I think the reason I dislike Burton and Monaco together so much is that he absolutely needs a woman who is willing to bring a lot of the energy to the scenes, because he and the writers, in concert, have boxed the character in so much.

I don't think that Burton wants a love interest who will wake him up and unfortunately like with Geary and MB, they're giving him what he wants rather than what makes a good story.  It seems like SBu's favourite scene partners are Sonny, Spinelli, and Carly when he's being her saviour. Jason the Hero rather than Jason the complex human being.

The scenes with Monaco suit him perfectly. Their fans are happy, the rest of us fast-forward and tptb don't care beyond that.

[HeatLifer]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I don't think that Burton wants a love interest who will wake him up

It still shocks me that he even wants a love interest, or cares about JaSam, but then I remember he cares about his popularity in the fanbase, so here we are.

[statsgirl]

Yeah, he is the most reluctant romantic hero ever.

A love interest may be mandated. Has there ever been a major character on a soap opera who wasn't in a romantic relationship?

[Hater]

16 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

It still shocks me that he even wants a love interest, or cares about JaSam, but then I remember he cares about his popularity in the fanbase, so here we are.

He cares about money. His cash cows are jasam fans. 

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Yeah, he is the most reluctant romantic hero ever.

A love interest may be mandated. Has there ever been a major character on a soap opera who wasn't in a romantic relationship?

Hmm, I don’t think so. But I do think there is a difference between being defined by a pairing vs. being defined as your own character, if that makes sense. Most major characters should also be able to standalone.

[statsgirl]

1 minute ago, HeatLifer said:

Most major characters should also be able to standalone.

I agree. But it also seems that everyone who is a major character has a romantic interest, even Stella, Max and Milo. Only the nurses seem to be in an off-screen bubble.

The stars of the show, Sonny, Carly, Ava etc. are almost never either in a romantic relationship, getting into one or ending one.

[ulkis]

I remember Burton acting in the break up with Courtney on the docks in the rain. But they were breaking up. I . . . can't remember ANYTHING from their actual relationship. I know they got married. That's it.

[jsbt]

They were the entire show for a year (it felt like five). It was all-consuming: Sonny, Carly, Jason, Courtney. Then as Frons took his eye off the ball at GH - and Kelly Monaco became available - Courtney swiftly became more and more marginalized going into late fall and winter, IIRC.

Even the wedding, I think, was kind of at the beginning of the end in those late months, tossed off like they had to. I believe it was November sweeps '03, but it was not feted like Luke and Laura Part II. It was like 'oh yeah, we did that.' Guza never wanted Courtney around/with Jason, and Guza wanted creative control. He got it. A matter of weeks after the wedding, Courtney was written increasingly 'unsympathetically' re: the mob and Jason's ties to it. By February or March 2004, after the hotel fire, they were basically over IMO.

Edited June 3, 2019 by jsbt

[HeatLifer]

28 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I remember Burton acting in the break up with Courtney on the docks in the rain. But they were breaking up. I . . . can't remember ANYTHING from their actual relationship. I know they got married. That's it.

I remember way too much. They started her with AJ just to fuck him over (again) and have Courtney be “saved” by Jason, literally carried her stripper-self from the pole. Then they got married in FRANCE. Uhhh, OK, I’m sure that wasn’t sticking it to JnR at all. RME.