GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Neptune]

did tracy like drew?

[Hater]

37 minutes ago, Neptune said:

did tracy like drew?

Can't really tell.   I mean she thought he was Jason and I don't think TQ ever had much use for the thug. I don't remember exactly but I think she was grateful that he got back the ELQ shares that Nik had taken.  They had a few good moments together here and there.

It would be interesting for her to come back now and see what has happened.  Drew is a better Quartermaine than Jason is at the moment.

Skip to about 1:00, that's where "jason" gives the shares back to the Qs and interacts with Tracy.  Looking back on this just 2 years ago the show had far more heart.  Sad.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Hater

[ulkis]

Well, now I had to watch some clips after the conversation in the main thread:

 

(7:40)

(In the hospital after Nikolas was shot)

Elizabeth: What are you still doing here?

Lucky: I'm waiting for Sarah.

Elizabeth: (pause) You weren't visiting Nikolas on your own, were you?

Lucky: Do you have to know everything?

See? Bromance!

Edited January 1, 2019 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

Oh, I’m already planning another ‘90s binge.

[ulkis]

(8:00)

Nikolas: Helena's a murderer. Whatever you think you're using her for, is it really worth your life?

Lucky: Since when is my life so important to you?

Nikolas: Lesley Lu! If you die because of what I've told you, she loses someone she loves.

Lucky: You told me the truth! Whatever I do with that is my responsibility, not yours.

Nikolas: I don't want your absolution Lucky, I want you alive.

Lucky: Well guess what the world doesn't revolve around you. Maybe I'm working for Helena because I need the money. Or maybe it's because I want to kill her myself or maybe it's because I want to die. Either way, it's none of your business. What I do with my life, is up to me. No one owns me.

Nikolas: You don't get it, do you? If you're working for Helena, your life, whether you're alive or not Lucky, isn't up to you. It's up to her.

[HeatLifer]

20 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Nikolas: Helena's a murderer. Whatever you think you're using her for, is it really worth your life?

Sigh, the real Nik. <3

[ulkis]

 

Lucky: In case you're getting any ideas about the prince and me, this is not a Brady Bunch moment. 

Nikolas: I'm sure our mother has no delusions about what's going on between us.

 

Lucky and Nikolas on a stake-out.

 

@Melgaypet Stefan calls Lucky looking for Nikolas. For some reason it cracks me up that Stefan starts off by telling Lucky it's "Stefan Cassadine" and then telling him "sorry to disturb you." So polite lol.

Edited January 1, 2019 by ulkis

[Asp Burger]

"Remind me to ask you later who the Brady Bunch are." Gawd, Nikolas. Lucky just told you what a search engine is. You're making the youth of 1998 look bad, even if you are actually played by a 26-year-old.  

That clip reminds me again how seemingly one in a million JJ was. He could be such a surly little brat and I still liked him and cared about him and I saw what was under the surface unpleasantness. World of difference from Joss, Oscar, and Kristina when they're mouthing off. 

Tyler never had as much chemistry with any other group of actors as he had with the rest of the OG Scooby Gang, GF and SN, either.  

And JJ really isn't "one in a million," I know. I see actors in their teens and early twenties who are as poised and subtle as he was, but they're in Manchester by the Sea, Call Me By Your Name, Lady Bird or whatever. I guess I'm glad they're in award-winning films rather than playing kids to Sonny Corinthos.  

The news isn't all bad. William Lipton impresses as Cameron.  

Edited January 1, 2019 by Asp Burger

[makelemons]

13 hours ago, ulkis said:

Well, now I had to watch some clips after the conversation in the main thread:

 

 

LnL2 /BH/JJ were so cute. 

 

Still dont understand how Elizabeth/BH has been on this show for 20+ years and they have never given her a story about her parents. 

 

Wish the rumors that that they were going to make her Alexis's daughter had come to be true. 

[TeeVee329]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 8:30 AM, makelemons said:

Still dont understand how Elizabeth/BH has been on this show for 20+ years and they have never given her a story about her parents. 

Jeff and No Name have been very busy working for the Doctors Behind Borders Where Teenagers Can't Come program.

[UYI]

On 1/1/2019 at 8:30 AM, makelemons said:

LnL2 /BH/JJ were so cute. 

 

Still dont understand how Elizabeth/BH has been on this show for 20+ years and they have never given her a story about her parents. 

 

Wish the rumors that that they were going to make her Alexis's daughter had come to be true. 

I have always suspected that it was because they only wanted Richard Dean Anderson back as Jeff and wouldn't accept anyone else, even if his fame as MacGyver meant he likely would never return anyway. As a result, it made Jeff and his unnamed wife (or Andrea, if you go along with Wikipedia--I still don't know HOW that became accepted canon, with how many things are corrected after its pages are vandalized every day) worse deadbeat parents than even Frisco Jones could ever HOPE to be.

I mean, I believe it's because Guza didn't care about Liz/was angry she was created when he was off writing Sunset Beach and became popular regardless of that, too, I just don't think that's the ENTIRE reason.

And personally, I'm glad Alexis ISN'T her mother. I can't see that ever making sense with Jeff being her father, especially given the age difference. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by UYI

[ulkis]

Liz wasn't particularly popular until the rape story. I just don't think they ever needed Liz's parents to drum up story for her. I don't think they showed very many of the parents of the popular characters from the 80s either. A lot of the characters now just have parents because they were born on-screen or retcons to parents that were already on screen.

Edited January 5, 2019 by ulkis

[Ambrosefolly]

35 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Liz wasn't particularly popular until the rape story. I just don't think they ever needed Liz's parents to drum up story for her. I don't think they showed very many of the parents of the popular characters from the 80s either. A lot of the characters now just have parents because they were born on-screen or retcons to parents that were already on screen.

 

 

 

Liz wasn't popular? I saw it the other way. TPTB thought Sarah would be a major mover but ReHe proved to be much more adapt at Soaps. While her chem with Lucky wasn't completely unexpected, they really sparked the first time they met (as the power of Jonathan Jackson, who was only 15 year at time playing opposite 20 yr ReHe). One of the worst outcomes of the rape storyline is that Elizabeth lost alot of her moxie and spunk that made her so appealing, and the weird thing is that Cameron seems to be written in a similar fashion. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Ambrosefolly

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Liz was popular? 

During the rape story? Yes.

[Ambrosefolly]

12 minutes ago, ulkis said:

During the rape story? Yes.

Sorry, I meant Liz wasn't popular. The reason she was given that storyline in part because of ReHe growing popularity. 

[ulkis]

I said she wasn't particularly popular. She definitely wasn't pop enought that Guza couldn't have written her off if he had wanted to. Her character was only on the show for 4 months when he had returned.

[TeeVee329]

So how long was Sarah around before they brought in Liz?

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

So how long was Sarah around before they brought in Liz?

I think it was something like a week. They were pretty much plopped wholesale front and center in that inane condom story.

[UYI]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

So how long was Sarah around before they brought in Liz?

Liz first debuted on August 1st, 1997, and I think Sarah did in June or July. 

Becky auditioned for Sarah, and while she didn't get the part, the show was impressed enough to create Liz just for her. Becky herself has told this story.

ETA: Okay, I looked it up: Sarah's first day was June 12th, 1997--nearly two months before Liz, not a week! Here's the proof:

http://general-hospital.wikia.com/wiki/Sarah_Webber_(Sarah_Laine)

Edited January 5, 2019 by UYI

[UYI]

9 hours ago, ulkis said:

I think it was something like a week. They were pretty much plopped wholesale front and center in that inane condom story.

Nope! See above. :) 

[Ambrosefolly]

12 hours ago, ulkis said:

I said she wasn't particularly popular. She definitely wasn't pop enought that Guza couldn't have written her off if he had wanted to. Her character was only on the show for 4 months when he had returned.

 

Guza is an idiot. He knows nothing about human nature or what the audience wants. If a certain character, pairing and/or actor is catching on, writers will at least show some pragmatism and write to promote it, but if Guza hates he will do his best if it doesn't respond to his tastes.  He couldn't write her off the first time because Wendy Riche was there and despite all of WR's faults, knew what a soap was and he tried to do it a second and received a huge backlash. The moron thought he could train the audience to accept his bullshit (he said as much) and that boring ass Steve Burton and Maurice Bernard sans Vanessa Marcil could somehow be interesting. Guess what, they aren't.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

Nope! See above. :) 

Shows what an impression Sarah made lol.

[dubbel zout]

Sarah and Elizabeth were tied to Jeff and ? so that they could live with Audrey. A decision Audrey probably regrets to this day and takes out on her poor car horn.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Sarah and Elizabeth were tied to Jeff and ? so that they could live with Audrey. A decision Audrey probably regrets to this day and takes out on her poor car horn.

Apparently Sarah was written off in 1998 to go off and visit her parents in Europe (where, I'm not sure). Liz was invited too, but obviously her romance with Lucky was starting to take off so she stayed behind. I guess her parents felt slighted and responded by ignoring her forever after that, heh.

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

Shows what an impression Sarah made lol.

Jennifer Sky had to wait until Cleopatra 2525 to get a memorable role. ;)

(In fairness, I haven't seen much of her as Sarah. It's possible I might actually like her, I don't want to judge.) 

[Sake614]

Wrong thread.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Sake614

[makelemons]

21 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

 

 He couldn't write her off the first time because Wendy Riche was there and despite all of WR's faults, knew what a soap was and he tried to do it a second and received a huge backlash. The moron thought he could train the audience to accept his bullshit (he said as much) and that boring ass Steve Burton and Maurice Bernard sans Vanessa Marcil could somehow be interesting. Guess what, they aren't.

Has it ever come out exactly why Guza didn't want the character of Liz around?

Liz has ties to one of the main  core families and should have been an obvious heroine for many years  (IMHO)  

i mean BH can act and seems to have at least some sort of chemistry with whomever they pair her with (not counting JYs shouty horribly miscast version of Lucky). 

[UYI]

43 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

@UYI oops! I’m easily confused these days lol! Thanks for the heads up, I’ll move it now.

No problem! I was terrified I came off as insensitive given the subject matter, but I just wanted to make sure.

Next up: Robin hates broccoli! 

[ulkis]

@LexieLily

Transcript of Jason wanting to shoot Dante:

Dante: Thanks, appreciate all right. Let's get the hell out of here.

Jason: I don't think so.

ason: Michael should have been able to get on with his life after Sonny's trial, but that didn't happen, because of you.

Dante: Consider the consequences if Claudia died at the cabin. What's the follow-up for Michael if you kill me that kid needs to move on with his life, not deal with another--

Jason: You're the reason he went to prison in the first place! For what happened to him there. What he had to go through. What he's going to have to carry for the rest of his life; the permanent damage that was done to a kid who didn't deserve it because you were arrogant! You were wrong, Dante, but you wouldn't listen. You blew Michael's life apart. Why shouldn't I kill you right now?

Dante: You kill me, there are two ways this could go-- you're apprehended, do maximum prison time for killing a cop, or you take off, spend the rest of your life on the run. Either way, you're gone. No way you go back to the life or the people that you--

Jason: You know what, I thought about that. And guess what? I've decided it's worth it, as long as you pay for what you did to Michael. The people I care about will be better off if you're not around.

Dante: You're going to kill me because you want to. Right now, you don't give a damn who would suffer from it. You need to be thinking about Michael.

Dante: Michael would blame himself. Not only for my death, he'll go all the way back to Claudia's. Isn't that enough guilt and misery for one kid to carry around? Add to that whatever messed up thing happened to him at Penton--

Jason: Don't talk about that!

Dante: I won't say anything about that to anyone. Look, I get that you hate me! I hate myself for what happened to Michael. But this isn't about you and me! What do you think happens to Michael if you kill me? Is your own satisfaction and need for revenge more important than his well-being? If it is, then shoot me right now.

-

Jason struggling to not want to kill a man but he wasn't terrible because, he, um, cuddled with Sam? Oh Guza.

[dubbel zout]

33 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Jason: You're the reason he went to prison in the first place!

Right, because it's not like Sonny, Jason, and Carly refused to consider a self-defense plea and decided a coverup was the way to proceed. Oh, wait...

[ulkis]

It was crazy writing. 

[dubbel zout]

Right? The ONE TIME those ding-dongs really had a legit reason to claim not guilty, they totally blow it. There was no doubt about it. Oof.

[TeeVee329]

Today's scenes about Gail's will left me with questions.  I'm certainly not an expert on their history, but from what I saw of them on "General Hospital" and "Port Charles", I got the impression that Lee and Gail had money, were certainly comfortable, but were not like super rich.  But the way Gail's will was being discussed made it sound like they had Q money.

Can anyone shed some light?

Edited January 17, 2019 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

I didn't get the impression Gail is endowing a new wing or anything of that magnitude, but who knows.

[ulkis]

Quote

Wading through the complete trash pit that was Laura's return (AKA let's show how noble and awesome Lucky and Luke are and why doesn't delusional stupid Laura get that Luke has a big sad over raping her since it's all about him), I'm reminded of why I saw promise in Tyler Christopher back then. That promise has been gone a very, very long time, and I doubt it's coming back, but he really had so much.

@Pete Martell I don't think the show presented Laura that way at all; one of the reasons being because she was inhadeed sympathetic to him. 

The episode right after this one Lucky came by the house to drop off money to repay Laura and Nikolas asks him why he's acting so hostile to Laura when Lucky is the son she chose. Elizabeth repeatedly tried to get him to be less aggressively towards her. This wasn't a Sonny and AJ storyline, it was one, imo, where everyone was sympethatic and had their faults.

Here's the dialogue (which i found quickly because I had already posted it in this thread, heh)

Nikolas: Your mother just left, it sounded like it had something to do with you.

Lucky: Yeah. Yeah I saw her. Mommy had to pay for my bad behavior. Yeah. I guess she likes to do that though. All right. I thought I'd pay her back. Go. [Pause] So, you moved into my room yet?

Nikolas: I don't want to fight with you right now, Lucky.

Lucky: You're paranoid, man. I'm just saying, you know, we may not have our own lake, our own stables, our own guards, but if your uncle's going to be having his mail forwarded to Attica, you may need a new address, too.

Nikolas: He's in jail because your father put him there Lucky.

Lucky: Really? My dad framed your uncle? Oh! Well, you don't see me arguing, do you? Well, you see, this whole Sherlock Holmes power of deduction thing, I don't think it's going to do you any good, 'cause you see, charges don't stick to my dad. So I know you got something up your sleeve.

Nikolas: Why do you blame Laura for what your father did to her?

Lucky: Well, he couldn't have gotten away with it if she didn't say it was okay. What do you care, really?

Nikolas: I mean, really. Ok. All right. So you're the one she picked. You're the one she made room for in her life, but because she's not in excruciating pain, you want to hurt her. Is that how the logic goes, something like that?

-

I think TC returned to GH too soon. Genie Francis said she thought he left too soon but I don't know that staying would have helped him.

Edited January 18, 2019 by ulkis

[Asp Burger]

It would have kept Stephen Martines from ever getting his mitts on the role, so it would have helped me.  

I don't know when GF expressed that opinion, whether it was at the time Tyler Christopher was leaving or retrospectively, but maybe she just thought he wasn't well established enough after three years to have the kind of career he hoped for. Even some multiple-award winners like Sarah Brown struggled with that transition. TC did rack up a lot of credits on high-visibility TV shows in the years between his first and second GH stints, but they were one-offs; he didn't land a series or anything. Catfish in Black Bean Sauce didn't launch a big-screen career either.  

One could argue that he had been well positioned on GH circa 1999 to be the young leading man, if he'd chosen to renew. He was well liked by fans. Jonathan Jackson was gone, but the female members of the Scooby gang were still there. They were trying to make Juan happen as the newcomer to the group. Once they realized TC was unlikely to stay, they did back-burner Nikolas, but the character did get a lot written for him after the recast. Much of it was by Megan McTavish, so it certainly wasn't kiss-the-pages greatness, but he was in a lot of front-burner material with Gia, Stavros and Helena, Endgame and all that. 

I was really happy for a few minutes when TC returned in '03, but...well, we all remember what the material was like. So much of it was bad, right up until the end.

[ulkis]

@Asp Burger the interview where she says that she thought Tyler left too soon, chapter 3, part 2:

https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/genie-francis#interview-clips

Edited January 18, 2019 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I didn't get the impression Gail is endowing a new wing or anything of that magnitude, but who knows.

It just seems to me that once you're talking about funds going into a trust that has to be managed, that's a big ol' chunk of change.  But maybe Lee and Gail invested well.

Relatedly, Serena is supposed to be loaded, right, from Dominique?  So while it's a super nice gesture, she probably doesn't need the cash to send any kids to medical school.

[dubbel zout]

A trust is just a financial instrument to manage assets. Given that Gail is now dead, it makes sense she wants whatever money she's donating to be managed in a way to maximize its value. And since GH hasn't exactly been financially stable, a trust is a good way to ensure that.

That said, I don't expect to find out she's left less than, say, $50,000 for the program. If it's more than a million or so, I hope we get some sort of explanation, because as you noted earlier, Lee and Gail were very comfortable, but certainly not at a Q or Barrington level of wealth. But maybe we'll find out they were friends with Warren Buffett.

[UYI]

8 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Relatedly, Serena is supposed to be loaded, right, from Dominique?  So while it's a super nice gesture, she probably doesn't need the cash to send any kids to medical school.

Yes. That's the reason why Katherine Bell came to town in late 1993, a few months after Dom's death--she pretended to be an old friend of hers who didn't know she was dead and used that to get to Scott and Dom's money. Lucy found out about this and stopped their wedding cold. Scott left town shortly after that and Serena's birth (which is also when Kin Shriner left the show; he wouldn't return until 1997 for the launch of PC). 

He was still in town when L&L came back, though, which resulted in this. Actually, it was right before his non-wedding to Katherine:

Edited January 19, 2019 by UYI

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, UYI said:

That's the reason why Katherine Bell came to town in late 1993, a few months after Dom's death--she pretended to be her sister and used that to get to Scott and Dom's money. Lucy found out about this and stopped their wedding cold. Scott left town shortly after that and Serena's birth (which is also when Kin Shriner left the show; he wouldn't return until 1997 for the launch of PC). 

He was still in town when L&L came back, though, which resulted in this. Actually, it was right before his non-wedding to Katherine:

She actually wasn't pretending. She really was Dominique's illegitimate half-sister. She'd been pretending to merely be an old friend of hers who supposedly didn't know Dominique was dead. Lucy found proof that she'd known all along and therefore from Day 1 was planning to scam Scott out of the money he'd inherited from her.

It's a good thing Scott left town after Luke and Laura came back. It would have been incredibly awkward to not acknowledge the "You dumped me for your rapist" elephant in the room.

[UYI]

9 minutes ago, Camille said:

She actually wasn't pretending. She really was Dominique's illegitimate half-sister. She'd been pretending to merely be an old friend of hers who supposedly didn't know Dominique was dead. Lucy found proof that she'd known all along and therefore from Day 1 was planning to scam Scott out of the money he'd inherited from her.

It's a good thing Scott left town after Luke and Laura came back. It would have been incredibly awkward to not acknowledge the "You dumped me for your rapist" elephant in the room.

Oops! Thanks, I'll fix it. :)

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That said, I don't expect to find out she's left less than, say, $50,000 for the program. If it's more than a million or so, I hope we get some sort of explanation, because as you noted earlier, Lee and Gail were very comfortable, but certainly not at a Q or Barrington level of wealth. But maybe we'll find out they were friends with Warren Buffett.

Scott said something about a boat and a house. I don't know what house prices are like where she lived but I'm thinking at least a couple of million dollars. Gail was a doctor and Lee a lawyer so there was the potential for a very comfortable sum.

[TeeVee329]

But, I mean, a lot of people retire to Florida and have a house and a boat, but they're not setting up trusts for programs at hospitals.

I should stop nitpicking this because GH gonna GH, it's just annoyed me, they breezed through most of the emotional beats about Gail's death to get to this will nonsense.

[dubbel zout]

Well, "a boat" could mean anything from a Sunfish or a small outboard to a gigantic yacht. I have to admit I don't see Gail and Lee putt-putting around on the water at all, but whatever, Show. Scott blustering about the material property was a bit much coming from a lawyer, even accounting for the fact that he's personally involved/affected here. Ugh, this fakakta show.

12 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

this will nonsense

I don't mind Gail setting up a mental health program at the hospital—she was a shrink, after all—but what was the point of bringing Scott, Laura, and Monica together only for them to have to assemble later on for something else to be revealed? I know the show is trying to synch up this story with the Kevin/Ryan stuff, but hold off on Gail's will until then. FFS. It's not hard.

[TeeVee329]

I imagine Lee had some kind of average fishing boat.  I don't know how much it came up on "General Hospital", but fishing seemed like a thing with Lee, Scotty, and Serena on "Port Charles".  And recall that Serena brought a tackle box with her to give to Scotty when she allowed within the city limits last time.

About the will - if my guess is right that Gail wants Kevin to ruin the thing, that's a tiny bit shitty to do to Scotty, given Gail must know of the fraught history between the two.  Then again, Gail and Kevin were colleagues and friends as well.

[TeeVee329]

This creatively bankrupt pregnancy story for Carly and Sonny has me counting back the number of times Carls has been pregnant, but I feel like I'm missing one.

There was Michael, Morgan, and Josslyn.  There's the Sonny baby she lost in the accident (yes, Carly and Sonny, ACCIDENT) at the Quartermaine mansion.  And then there's a Jax baby she miscarried prior to Joss.  Am I forgetting any?  I feel like there must have been another Sonny baby.  And didn't she have a pregnancy scare with Alcazar?

[nilyank]

7 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

This creatively bankrupt pregnancy story for Carly and Sonny has me counting back the number of times Carls has been pregnant, but I feel like I'm missing one.

There was Michael, Morgan, and Josslyn.  There's the Sonny baby she lost in the accident (yes, Carly and Sonny, ACCIDENT) at the Quartermaine mansion.  And then there's a Jax baby she miscarried prior to Joss.  Am I forgetting any?  I feel like there must have been another Sonny baby.  And didn't she have a pregnancy scare with Alcazar?

There was one time that she thought that she was pregnant and didn't know if Jax or Sonny was the father and was going to ask Jason to say he was the dad. She was not pregnant. She never had a pregnancy scare with Alcazar.

[Neptune]

does jax have shared custody of joss?

do the mothers always get primary custody of kids on this show?

[ouinason]

I believe that they do have joint custody, but Jax moved to another country which complicated things as far as how much time he gets to spend with her.  Like, because of school and her own social life, as a teen, she hasn't been to Australia as much as she did when she was younger.  It's reasonable that the parent she lives with generally gets to make decisions about her care, so that's probably why it seems that Jax has been cut out.  

[teenj12]

After hearing about the Lori Loughlin-college bribery case, I see the whole "Kristina drops out of Yale because of Sonny/Alexis" story very differently.