GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[bannana]

No. Tiffany's sister, Cheryl, is the one who had the affair with Julian, and Lucas is her child.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was mighty confused!

[ulkis]

And now there's Nikolas, who is rather a disappointment given the over-wrought schemes and desires of his predecessors. I mean, his romantic choices have been exceedingly common. Sure, Nik has tried to dress them up to fit some semblance of Cassadine flavor... fashioning Emily into a lost princess, stealing Elizabeth away from his half-brother, ... I have no idea how SWMNBN even fits into that mess... I'd like to think even an insane Cassadine would choose better than that... Even if an argument could be made for Britt, she's more a product of a strange match that comes out of a Robert Ludlum Cold War spy book than anything dark and Gothic and Romantic. Nik's just failing on that front... although, to be fair... there aren't any ladies in Port Charles who come close to being a foil for that Cassadine tradition.

 

 

Don't forget about Gia (even though it's hard to think of the guy she was with as Nikolas, imo). I liked the second actress a lot who was there briefly - I remember her name was Andrea Pearson I think and she seemed much more grown-up and mature than Marisa Ramirez' Gia. It's too bad that they never even tried with her and Nikolas. I also liked the actress who played Mary the crazy woman who kept Nik in her house a lot and thought they should have cast her as Lydia - now that could have been a good story/romance for Nik.

[ulkis]

Once upon a time I would've said she had properly moved on to Jax, but that was almost 20 years at this point and later events invalidated it. I do absolutely agree with you about what I thought they'd do with Brenda there, and what we got instead.

 

I think they are probably the loves of each other's lives (I once thought that could be Sarah Brown's Carly and I adored them together, but that iteration of that relationship is long gone), as much as Sonny can love anyone who's not himself. But I think their final big conversation before she left (below) was incredible work both from them and the writers, really excellent stuff, probably MB's best work in a long time, and encapsulated who Sonny really is. I also think those scenes put the lie to any writer bothering to seriously pair him in a romance with anyone else unless you resolve that key issue. I have no idea why anyone has bothered, because this said it all until Sonny chooses to change. The only one you can put him with is a woman who doesn't know him and is a trophy, or someone like Carly who deep down knows exactly what he is and doesn't care because they are too codependent.

 

 

You what's funny? Guza's wife wrote that episode.

[Dandesun]

I remember liking Gia, what little I saw of her since I was so hardcore on The Barge at that point I wasn't even following the boards all that much. The thing about Gia, though, is that she was such a complete break from that dark, Romantic Gothic vibe that the Cassadines wear like cloaks (they all wear cloaks, of course, and are transported via horse-drawn carriage. It is so.) that she either would have been a perfect foil or she would have ground them into the dust and irrevocably changed them all forever.

 

Which, depending on the day, could be a good thing or a bad thing.

 

I think it might have been ideal for Gia to be the one to kill Helena... taking her place in a manner of speaking. Frankly, Helena isn't going to respect anyone that her descendants choose until they go old school and put down the old guard with their bare hands. Helena's old school like that... she's the Alpha and only being replaced by one strong enough to kill her will earn her respect in that last breath.

[Harmony233]

Question - Bobbie was still on the canvas when Bill Eckert was originally running around, right?  What was their relationship like?

THey was pretty close.He lived at the Brownstone and she was upset when he was arrested for nancys murder.

[jsbt]

You what's funny? Guza's wife wrote that episode.

 

Good old Meg Bennett! I haven't forgiven her for that dancing storyline BTW

 

I loved Gia, but AFAIK Marisa Ramirez is still having some success on primetime and cable and is not in a hurry to come back. I don't expect to ever see that character again but I loved her with Nikolas, loved her family (Taggert and Florence, played by Lynne Moody) and felt they didn't give either Gia a fair shot with TC. Of course, there was a point at OLTL where I never expected to see Téa Delgado again - she seemed disconnected from the present of that show at the time - and she came back in force.

 

ETA: Oh, right! Marisa is a regular on Blue Bloods, good for her.

Edited January 9, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

Here's a question - how did Helena get out of jail, post-ENDGAME.  I vaguely recall something about a double, but she was freely wandering around town the next few years.  Why wasn't she rearrested?

Edited January 10, 2015 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I don't know but all that was damn stupid. I wanted Helena free to get up to no good but I didn't want her just roaming around town ineffectually for years, which is what she did.

[ulkis]

Wasn't there something about penguins in Antarctica?

okay, here is what soapcentral says:

Luke and Stavros fought and Stavros ended up falling into a bottomless pit. Helena nearly escaped before they reached the surface, but she was detained again and arrested once they reached the outside. To ensure Helena's permanent captivity, Stefan cut off her access to money. However, Helena's hopes were raised when Taggert revealed there was little physical evidence to keep her locked up for long. A few months after being captured, Helena feigned illness and was taken to the hospital.

 

While there, she saw Nikolas and told him a riddle before escaping. She hid out in the stables at Wyndemere where Gia happened upon her. She blackmailed Gia into helping her, and Gia agreed in order to protect Nikolas. But as Luke and the cops searched for Helena, Nikolas grew suspicious of Gia's behavior and confronted her as she was giving money to Helena. Wanting to protect Gia and to get rid of Helena, Nikolas let Helena go. But he warned her never to return under penalty of death. When Luke found out he was horrified and Laura was heartbroken that Nikolas chose to help Gia instead of his family. Luke and Roy set out to track her and experienced a few misses before finding her dressed as a homeless person. Luke grabbed her throat, scaring her, as she tried to entice him with the thrill of the chase. Roy showed up before Luke could kill her and they turned her in to the cops. Luke then accompanied Helena to federal prison and later celebrated her capture. But Luke didn't realize that a Helena look-a-like sat in prison while the real one roamed free. He caught on when he went to see Helena in prison and made a remark that "Helena" didn't counter properly. Luke tracked the real Helena to a convent. Laura followed him and together they sent Helena packing to the Arctic Circle under the guise of missionary work.

 

Helena wasn't heard from again until Stefan's funeral in October 2003. She returned to dance on the grave of her second son, a disappointment to her, and to hurl insults at all her old enemies. But Luke made her think when he laughed in her face and told her that she's facing a punishment worse than death: she's fading into obscurity.

 

But Helena returned with a new mission in the spring of 2004 – to destroy Emily and Nicholas.

 

 

And from there commenced the wandering around town pointlessly years.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

In fairness, her exit under McTavish - which I think is everything til she's sent packing til 2003 - was awful.

[TeeVee329]

Wow...that's something.

[UYI]

The first Dominique was so bad. I also thought Paul and Mac were boring as well. That was not a good era for new characters. Ugh and Colin. What a toolbox. 

 

Edited: There is so much awful in that clip. My God. 

 

Wasn't his name actually Connor?

[Cattitude]

Okay I have a theroy about this Flukemess but I needs some background on Helena. Other than being Mikos' wife do we know anything about her family of origin or where she came from?

[ulkis]

No, we don't.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I just started watching again and I have to say it makes me sad that they apparently turned Lucky into a deadbeat dad. His being such a great dad was the only shining thing for me during much of poor PrettyButDumb Lucky's tenure. So sad. Was it a gradual thing or was he just like written like stupid Luke during the last decade or more and hated having family tying him down?

[ulkis]

He had some moments of "I wanna hit the road" when JJ returned but he never said anything about a family holding him back and he was a good dad until when they wrote him off and they just had him leave. (To be fair, he was in a lot of emotional distress.)

[Box305]

Wasn't his name actually Connor?

 

See? He sucked so bad I couldn't even be bothered to remember his name. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

He had some moments of "I wanna hit the road" when JJ returned but he never said anything about a family holding him back and he was a good dad until when they wrote him off and they just had him leave. (To be fair, he was in a lot of emotional distress.)

 

Thanks for the answer. At least they didn't make him as awful as I imagined, which I guess is a victory on this show.

[Harmony233]

See? He sucked so bad I couldn't even be bothered to remember his name. 

LOL He was Seans son with some random woman.I don't really remeber him doing anything other than he had a crush on Dominquie and was pissed when she married scott lol.

[dubbel zout]

Good old Meg Bennett! I haven't forgiven her for that dancing storyline BTW.

 

No one should. My GOD, that was a dreadful story. Poor KeMo.

[OnceSane]

Poor us too.

No one should. My GOD, that was a dreadful story. Poor KeMo.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I just can't get into any character's past being held against them until the end of time when they have obviously changed and doing something different now. And as I think you said one does not negate the other. Just b/c Dante wasn't hard and douchie to his own father for being a criminal doesn't mean he can never ever and forever not be that way towards other criminals, especially ones that pose a danger to his loved ones including his own son.

 

I swear I'm gonna stop drawing comparisons after this, but once you strip away all of Sonny's excuses, he shot Dante for the same reason he murdered AJ. He saw both of them as trespassers into his life and his world, and AJ in particular was a threat because he was "stealing" Michael's love and affection. Never mind that had Sonny not stolen the kid first, or rather had him handed to him by his morally insane mother, AJ would likely not be dead. Dante threw attitude at AJ too, and he didn't even know the man. I like Dante most of the time, but when he's doing his "Hypocrite says what?" thing, I think its legitimate to make note of it. I'm willing to say that he can hate whoever he wants, including his father's last victim, but I don't think its always a good look on him.

[SlovakPrincess]

That clip of Sonny and Brenda's last break up actually made me feel for him. A little.

And then in comes Carly, clacking around in her stupid loud shoes, all "what? She's really leaving you because of what you did to Jax?!" Like that's somehow petty of Brenda. And then Sonny starts making excuses about how Brenda just couldn't handle his life. And then I give up on him again. Sonny and Carly really bring out the worst in each other.

And then they show Robin and Brenda, having a normal friend moment, and I'm just filled with rage over what they've done to the Robin character the last three years or so. Just - ack.

[LeftPhalange]

Why does Helena hate Stefan?

[MSquared]

In my more creative periods when I enjoyed writing Cassadine and GH fanfictions, I like to spec that Helena snared Mikkos away from another woman (Kristin, Alexis' mother) and, claiming he got her pregnant, gave birth to Stavros.  Afterwards, when he had his heir, he ceased to have relations with her, but she got pregnant again, this time with Stefan.  Knowing this kid was not his, he got suspicious of Stavro and, running a blood test on him, learned the truth and kicked Helena and her bastard out.  Thus, Helena blamed Stefan for losing Mikkos.

 

I also went on to say that, after killing Kristin, Helena threaten Mikkos with Alexis' life to get back with him and have Stavros named his heir again.

[Melgaypet]

In contrast, I used to speculate that Stavros was Helena's child with a dead "true love" and she married Mikkos for his money and power and thought it was an excellent joke that her bastard son would be the Cassadine prince, and she resented Stefan, who WAS Mikkos' child and thus a threat to that. Maybe Mikkos forced her to have Stefan (to get an "heir and a spare") and she hated them both for that.

 

But that's all speculation. No one really knows. I will say there's always been a strong undercurrent of sexual energy in scenes between Helena and her sons, whether love for Stavros or hatred for Stefan, which I can only assume is deliberate. So...there's that.

[ulkis]

Yeah, that was always my favored theory/fanwank too Melgaypet. I liked the idea of the hated son actually being Mikkos'

Edited January 10, 2015 by ulkis

[dubbel zout]

I thought Helena hated Stefan because she considered him "weak." He was shown to be more sensitive than Stavros—not that that bar was set very high—as well as less mercurial. Helena seems to need a certain level of crazy in her men, whatever their relationship to her, and Stefan didn't provide it. Plus, he was a younger son. She seemed to resent him for that, though it's not as if he could do anything about it.

[ulkis]

She did, but I think a part of her just made up bullshit too I think to justify it in her head cause she's, well, crazy. Stavros certainly isn't strong at all, especially since the first time he popped up again during the endgame era.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ulkis

[GHScorpiosRule]

I just can't get into any character's past being held against them until the end of time when they have obviously changed and doing something different now. And as I think you said one does not negate the other. Just b/c Dante wasn't hard and douchie to his own father for being a criminal doesn't mean he can never ever and forever not be that way towards other criminals, especially ones that pose a danger to his loved ones including his own son.

 

EXCEPT that Dante WAS hard against that midgety moobster for being a fucking mobster/murderer (killing his (Dante's) mentor, Lt. Polletti, which is one of the reasons Dante became a cop, and all that changed after he learns that piece of self-absorbed shit was his sperm donor? Please.  And if I recall correctly, Dante hadn't told the PCPD who shot him when Robin* came to see him, about what "GRRRREAAAAT GUY" Sonny was.

 

*I was SO ANGRY with Robin for a long time for pulling out that prom picture of her and Stone and for her being such a midgetymoobster apologist. And I'm one of her number one Fans. As y'all already know. Ugh. Hated her in this whole storyline.

I swear I'm gonna stop drawing comparisons after this, but once you strip away all of Sonny's excuses, he shot Dante for the same reason he murdered AJ. He saw both of them as trespassers into his life and his world, and AJ in particular was a threat because he was "stealing" Michael's love and affection. Never mind that had Sonny not stolen the kid first, or rather had him handed to him by his morally insane mother, AJ would likely not be dead. Dante threw attitude at AJ too, and he didn't even know the man. I like Dante most of the time, but when he's doing his "Hypocrite says what?" thing, I think its legitimate to make note of it. I'm willing to say that he can hate whoever he wants, including his father's last victim, but I don't think its always a good look on him.

PREACH!

Edited January 10, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[ulkis]

 

EXCEPT that Dante WAS hard against that midgety moobster for being a fucking mobster/murderer (killing his (Dante's) mentor, Lt. Polletti, which is one of the reasons Dante became a cop, and all that changed after he learns that piece of self-absorbed shit was his sperm donor? Please.  And if I recall correctly, Dante hadn't told the PCPD who shot him when Robin* came to see him, about what "GRRRREAAAAT GUY" Sonny was.

 

Actually Dante was much more anti-Sonny after he got shot than he was before he got shot. Maybe for like his first month he was totally anti-Sonny but very quickly he was all "well he's not so bad after all" and the whole reason Dante was shot when and where he was shot was because he wanted to give Sonny one last good day before he arrested him. He let Sonny skate for shooting him but he was pretty much telling him off in every scene they had together for a long time. Probably around when Brenda returned is when it really started to cool off, because they wanted to build that bullshit triangle.

[dubbel zout]

I didn't mind Dante wanting a relationship with Sonny after the shooting, but Dante had to do all the work. Sonny pulled his usual "Why you be hatin'?" and "I didn't know you were my son!" bullshit. He never took responsibility—it was all Olivia's fault. Of course Dante and Sonny would eventually reconcile, but Sonny did nothing. Typical.

Edited January 10, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

There was a nice conversation they had once when Sonny gave them a check for a wedding present and Dante went to return it. It's amusing because it's like Dante's the audience and Sonny's Guza. (or Garin, since that's who was writing at the time)

 

Dante: I don't think of you as my enemy.

Sonny: Guess that’s progress.

Dante: And I know you regret what you did to me.

Sonny: Every day of my life.

Dante: What I-I don't think you get is the fact that you--you would have been wrong even if I hadn't turned out to be your son. You don't shoot an unarmed man, you know. You don't shoot a cop.

Sonny: You were raised by good people who taught you to see the world in a certain way--right, wrong, good, bad. I see the world, you know, differently.

Dante: Profit and loss.

Sonny: Survival.

Dante: Survival--Sonny, you--you're way past survival. You could retire right now and live--live a life of comfort and leisure. You--you'd never have to break another law, never have to pick up another gun.

Sonny: Yeah, I could retire and leave the country, leave my--my children. It doesn't sound appealing to me.

 

I love how Dante's you don't get the point!!! and Sonny goes all Obi-Wan on him and is all "truth is a point of view". 

[dubbel zout]

Sonny's obtuseness is as amusing as it is irritating.

[UYI]

From 1997: Lucy finds out that Scott and Serena are returning to PC! This shortly before Port Charles (the show) premiered. Note the Lee Baldwin sighting, too. 

 

[SlovakPrincess]

I usually don't care for Lucy but that was a nice scene and I like her yellow outfit. And I always like a Lee Baldwin sighting.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 I mean regardless of what they've done they ARE his parents who raised him. I think he did too much too soon by changing his name and cutting all ties and he feels isolated and misses them. As much as some people want him to be a Q the Qs just don't have a big enough part in GH anymore to make that very interesting long term. I think long term the interesting story is Michael crafting a new and different relationship with Carly and Sonny and for me that is far more soapy and interesting than just cutting them off forever. Despite the bad things done to Michael by Sonny he has also helped him several times and while killing AJ is an extremely negative thing covering up Michael killing someone to keep him from prison is an exteme in the other direction too.

 

While it's certainly true that Carly and Sonny are the ones who raised Michael, I'm not sure I'm willing to say that they actually did him any favors. I'm strongly biased, as I've disliked/resented Michael since pretty much the moment he was conceived and everyone even remotely involved in that storyline immediately lost their fucking minds over who was going to "get" him, as if he was a Christmas ham that was being raffled off. Chad Duell's Eeyore Edition is only slightly less obnoxious to me, if only because he's no longer trying to order hits on people who annoy him. Conversely, he can still be an entitled little turd-blossom who inserts himself into situations he shouldn't, and he trashed his relationship with Morgan over stupid Kaka, the worst of all possible reasons. Watching Sonny betray Morgan for The Golden Child's benefit was bad enough. Watching everyone else act as if Morgan was the bad guy because he wouldn't, I guess, step aside and let Michael have Potato Head was worse.

 

In the present, maybe he can forge a new relationship with them, but that, IMO, would require work on their part as well, not just his. I think, on some deep down, atavistic level, Sonny is aware of his personal toxicity, that he knows he's bad for those around him. His refusal to admit that is another matter, but I'll give him a sliver of credit that in the back of his lizard brain, he knows he's a piece of shit. Carly? Well, Carly hasn't applied normal logic since she got to Port Charles, and that was nineteen years ago. If anything, her level of self-awareness has actually decreased with the passing of time, and that's why she's yucking it up (in more ways than one) with Jakeson. I'm sure that Michael will cave. His real father is dead, Monica is hardly ever seen, and Bobbie is back on Carly-propping duty. When it happens, I'll be reminded of exactly why I've never liked him. YMMV.

[Cattitude]

 

Chad Duell's Eeyore Edition is only slightly less obnoxious to me, if only because he's no longer trying to order hits on people who annoy him. Conversely, he can still be an entitled little turd-blossom who inserts himself into situations he shouldn't, and he trashed his relationship with Morgan over stupid Kaka, the worst of all possible reasons. Watching Sonny betray Morgan for The Golden Child's benefit was bad enough. Watching everyone else act as if Morgan was the bad guy because he wouldn't, I guess, step aside and let Michael have Potato Head was worse.

 

 

Not exactly laughing at you, but you do realize that THIS is totally why he will forgive his "parents". If this truly is his personality, I'd say he IS his parents' child. LOL

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Not exactly laughing at you, but you do realize that THIS is totally why he will forgive his "parents". If this truly is his personality, I'd say he IS his parents' child. LOL

 

Oh, well, sure. It's an interesting case of nature versus nurture, if nothing else, that A.J.'s basic goodness despite the alcoholism could be canceled out by growing up in the middle of Sonny and Carly's toxic relationship. But if it's true, then isn't Michael upset about the wrong thing? Not so much that his biological father is dead, truncating the relationship when they were just getting to know one another as adults, but that a lifetime of ass-kissing accustomed him to thinking that he was the exception to the rule, that he was the one person they would never screw over?

 

As a side note, I'm aware that we don't agree on very much, and certainly not on Sonny. I hope you know that it isn't you I'm attacking, but the terrible writing that centers around making the Moobster, and those who support the Moobster, unquestionably right at all times, at least within the narrative. We, as viewers, may have the opinion that he's at best a sociopath, but Ron - and Guza before that - always try to make everyone else be in the wrong so that he can remain the star of the show. If nothing else, being able to vent my spleen about it keeps my blood pressure down. :-)

[KerleyQ]

Despite the bad things done to Michael by Sonny he has also helped him several times and while killing AJ is an extremely negative thing covering up Michael killing someone to keep him from prison is an exteme in the other direction too.

 

 

But that wasn't really helping Michael, since the cover up was what got Michael sent to prison.  Not to mention, the person Michael killed had gone off the rails because of Sonny.  But, helping him in that situation would have been getting good legal representation who could handily wrap up the "in defense of others" aspect of the case and kept Michael out of prison.  Sonny, Carly, and Jason engaged in a big old cover up, it pissed off the judge, and, to teach all of them a lesson, he sent Michael to prison.  

[Cattitude]

But that wasn't really helping Michael, since the cover up was what got Michael sent to prison.  Not to mention, the person Michael killed had gone off the rails because of Sonny.  But, helping him in that situation would have been getting good legal representation who could handily wrap up the "in defense of others" aspect of the case and kept Michael out of prison.  Sonny, Carly, and Jason engaged in a big old cover up, it pissed off the judge, and, to teach all of them a lesson, he sent Michael to prison.  

 

I get that but still his he was "trying" to keep him from prison. Really though I was talking about him killing that goon Fluke sent to his apartment a few months ago, but same difference. Killing him was self defense but with his history they were too afraid of what might happen, when telling the truth then would have been better too.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I posted about characters'  motivation mattering not too long ago and I stand by that opinion. But that only applies to me as a viewer who is omnipresent and emotionally detached from the outcome. Character's don't have to consider motivations to react because well, emotions and logic don't miss. There is also pieces of information they are not privy to as we viewers.

 

It'll be absolutely justified if Michael were to hate Sonny for being indirectly responsible for every bad thing that happened to him while he was growing up. It doesn't matter that Michael excused and forgave them, there is always a breaking point. Killing AJ and lying to Michael's face about it was Michael's breaking point with Sonny. It shouldn't matter to Michael what Sonny's motives were, in the past Michael loved Sonny so he took into consideration that diving to protect Kate while leaving Michael to take the bullet that put him into a coma was purely a split second decision but that didn't mean Sonny loved Kate over him. Or that they were being shot at in the first place because of Sonny's business. Those are just the tip of the iceberg of how Michael's life was shitty due to being Sonny's child and the decisions Sonny made regarding Michael.

 

Michael reserves the right to reassess each and every one of these things and conclude that Sonny didn't love him as much as he thought he did, therefore he'll withdraw his generous forgiveness for those things. I personally don't think Michael would be right but there is a good argument to be made in Michael's favor. It is all a matter of what one considers love to be.

 

I have to give Ron credit here, he did not narrowed Michael's anger to just the death of AJ. AJ's death was what broke the camel's back. I'd be more worried about Michael crawling back to his mommy and daddy sooner rather than later if RC had centered all of his hurt and anger on AJ's death alone. He did the uncharacteristic thing, by making Michael's anger deeper than that.

 

If only he hadn't drooped the fallout after two weeks for what seemed like months. Aside from the poor pacing, Michael/AJ and S&C's fallout is the only storyline I can say I like about current GH.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I get that but still his he was "trying" to keep him from prison. Really though I was talking about him killing that goon Fluke sent to his apartment a few months ago, but same difference. Killing him was self defense but with his history they were too afraid of what might happen, when telling the truth then would have been better too.

 

Wait...Michael killed a goon that Luke sent to his apartment, or Sonny did? Because if it's the latter, watch me be amazed at the idea that Sonny killed the right person for once.

 

As for the Claudia cover-up, I'm sure it will not amaze you when I say that Sonny and Company "trying" to keep Michael out of prison is not adequate. I'm aware that, at best, The Unholy Trinity could be pathologically dishonest, the three of them coming together to form a mushroom cloud of lies and deceit, and it backfired on them. Regardless, they were the ones who manufactured the cover-up, and Sonny was the one who broke the truce with crazy Papa Z once Michael was behind bars, leading to Jason "volunteering" to go to prison, because I guess Sonny's claustrophobia was still bothering him back then, at least too much to do it himself. That it isn't bothering him now is just another bit of ridiculousness from Ron, since for years all we heard was "Sonny can't go to prison, his claustrophobia will kill him!" If only.

 

 

Michael reserves the right to reassess each and every one of these things and conclude that Sonny didn't love him as much as he thought he did, therefore he'll withdraw his generous forgiveness for those things. I personally don't think Michael would be right but there isa good argument to be made in Michael's favor. It is all a matter of what one considers love to be.

 

While this is maybe true, you could also argue that Liesl loves her kids too. It being a weird, freaky kind of love is perhaps more important, though. Sonny's love is the kind that gets you shot in the head (Carly), or sent to prison (Michael). I'm gonna leave out the other stuff for a change, but I don't think saying "It was an accident" or "He tried to do the right thing" is adequate explanation for why everything he gets within ten feet of turns into a fuck of clusters. He should have stopped fucking up a long time ago, not continue to do the same things over and over again, and with good writing he would have.

[Cattitude]

 

Wait...Michael killed a goon that Luke sent to his apartment, or Sonny did? Because if it's the latter, watch me be amazed at the idea that Sonny killed the right person for once.

 

No Michael killed him in self defense, but due to his past they were afraid to call the police and Sonny covered it up for Michael.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

 

Wait...Michael killed a goon that Luke sent to his apartment, or Sonny did? Because if it's the latter, watch me be amazed at the idea that Sonny killed the right person for once.

 

As for the Claudia cover-up, I'm sure it will not amaze you when I say that Sonny and Company "trying" to keep Michael out of prison is not adequate. I'm aware that, at best, The Unholy Trinity could be pathologically dishonest, the three of them coming together to form a mushroom cloud of lies and deceit, and it backfired on them. Regardless, they were the ones who manufactured the cover-up, and Sonny was the one who broke the truce with crazy Papa Z once Michael was behind bars, leading to Jason "volunteering" to go to prison, because I guess Sonny's claustrophobia was still bothering him back then, at least too much to do it himself. That it isn't bothering him now is just another bit of ridiculousness from Ron, since for years all we heard was "Sonny can't go to prison, his claustrophobia will kill him!" If only.

 

 

 

While this is maybe true, you could also argue that Liesl loves her kids too. It being a weird, freaky kind of love is perhaps more important, though. Sonny's love is the kind that gets you shot in the head (Carly), or sent to prison (Michael). I'm gonna leave out the other stuff for a change, but I don't think saying "It was an accident" or "He tried to do the right thing" is adequate explanation for why everything he gets within ten feet of turns into a fuck of clusters. He should have stopped fucking up a long time ago, not continue to do the same things over and over again, and with good writing he would have.

 

I agree. Liesl's love for Nathan is different from the kind she showed for Britt but she loved them in her own way.

 

Same as Sonny's love for his children. It just that whatever kind of love he has for them is not enough for him to sacrifice his lifestyle over. Or prevent him from accidentally shooting them.

[KerleyQ]

Same as Sonny's love for his children. It just that whatever kind of love he has for them is not enough for him to sacrifice his lifestyle over. Or prevent him from accidentally shooting them.

 

 

Or almost blowing them up. 

[dubbel zout]

Same as Sonny's love for his children. It just that whatever kind of love he has for them is not enough for him to sacrifice his lifestyle over. Or prevent him from accidentally shooting them.

Or almost blowing them up.

 

Or forgetting he has more than one kid.

Edited January 14, 2015 by dubbel zout

[magnolia11]

Or forgetting he has more than one kid.

 

Or screwing their girlfriends.

[SlovakPrincess]

Sonny and Liesl are similar in that they both think the people they deign to care about are important, while other people can be treated like dirt and even be killed.

Which is why I loathe both of them.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Sonny and Liesl are similar in that they both think the people they deign to care about are important, while other people can be treated like dirt and even be killed.

Which is why I loathe both of them.

 

Except those two things are pretty interchangeable. Liesl started out using Britt to "get" Patrick for reasons that are still unclear to me, and she only seemed to care at all because she was Faison's kid. Had Britt refused to do what her mother wanted, Liesl likely would have pulled a Helena and killed her.

 

And then there's Sonny, and....well...even Michael, who he supposedly loves best, has discovered that Sonny will, in fact, lie to his face for however long he can get away with it, and when he's caught, he's only sorry because he hurt Sad Panda. It's like a kid being sorry because he broke the picture window in the living room  and now he has to face the consequences of it. That's what Sonny's "love" looks like.