These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ILoveReading]

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-10-08/supernatural-season-15-jared-padalecki-jensen-ackles-finale

Quote

Ackles: I feel like this was the version that needed to happen — that needed to exist. There could’ve been other ways of maybe getting to there, but I think the finality of this is right. I also think that this could’ve been done a long time ago.

Jared potentially throwing shade earlier and now Jensen.  He still sounds a little salty about the ending.

[Terese]

7 hours ago, Bergamot said:

 

I don't want to answer for catrox, but I agree that it was a fantastic scene. Obviously not a fantastic thing for Dean, that's not what is meant, but for the show. It was such an intense and meaningful scene. (And well-acted -- I thought Jensen was especially good.) At the risk of being tacky, I will quote my own previous thoughts from here on this.

Billie bringing Dean his death book was an amazing scene that should have been the absolute pivot point of the whole season. The reason it worked so well is that it was an idea that goes right to the heart of what Supernatural was originally about, and that's why I loved it.  It was about a human being facing off with a supernatural being (Death herself!), being confronted with an unalterable and potentially world-ending destiny, and then finding a way to deal with it, no matter what it took. Because that's what it means to be a Winchester.

Instead what you got as the eventual climax to this story in Ouroboros was two immensely powerful supernatural creatures, Michael and Jack, fighting each other with beams of glowing light energy, while the all-too-human Winchesters simply watched from the sidelines.

What was set up in this scene was completely ignored. It was like completely ignoring the fact that it was Sam's destiny to be Lucifer's vessel, and having Season 5 end with Castiel defeating Lucifer while Sam and Dean watched. What a waste. And I have no expectations that the return of Death's library will mean anything for Dean in the end, anymore than it did before.

 

Original Death and Dean had a unique relationship; inspite of viewing Dean as a bacterium, he was gracious, helpful and recognized Dean's and Sam's value. However, he never just showed up. He arrived if summoned. And reapers never concerned themselves with the living.

Since season 12, reapers and Billie are constantly showing up, meddling and spy and threatening. I suppose I didn't see anything positive, fantastic, special, rare, or otherwise, when Billie brought Dean to her Death book room on two occasions. As Billie has an intense dislike for the Winchesters, I was suspicious when she once again tried to interfere. What was her motive? The Malak Box is a horrible fate.

It is not as though Billie brought Sam to the reading room to have a special moment. So, it is not the same thing at all. 

 

[ILoveReading]

Here we go again.  🙄

[gonzosgirrl]

45 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Here we go again.  🙄

I just threw up in my mouth a little. 

[Myrelle]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just threw up in my mouth a little. 

🤮

[ILoveReading]

Quote

Speaking of growth, some of Dean’s is spelled out for him in the most miraculous way by Amara. After Sam and Dean meet up with her and have a conversation about Chuck that’s ultimately a bit of a non-starter, Dean returns to ask her another, more personal question. Her response gave me legitimate chills. It’s a very weighty mic drop and the combination of the level of impact and the level of clarity (it’s entirely airtight, no room for interpretation) feels like the culmination of all the self-actualization work the show has been doing on Dean in the last four years. (I wish I could tell you Sam got a big special moment like this in the episode, but he doesn’t. Amara’s return was always going to be Dean’s thing.) Amara’s speech to Dean… it doesn’t feel isolated, like the idea of it was invented just for this episode. It feels more like concrete evidence of what the show has been trying to prove for ages. And the funny thing is, Amara is the anti-Chuck, right, and all season, we’ve learned about the version of the story Chuck thinks is good, and we’ve been told to root against that. Chuck’s version of Supernatural isn’t how the writers really feel. But I think Amara’s might be. Dean has obviously struggled to see what she tells him, all in one piece, but here it is – this was the point, laid out on the table, from the entity behind the curtain – both onscreen and off. Amara knew what she was doing, and so did the writers. This was always, always the point.

I'm trying to remember this is Natalie Fisher who thinks Dean should be seen and not heard but this sounds so preachy and horrible.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

"Penned by Davy Perez" tells me all I need to know. He is the worst of the new writing crop when it comes to Dean.

You know, before SPN I never paid attention to who wrote a show, never mind who the show runner was. Now, I will go out of my way to make sure I never again watch anything that Badd's group is involved in.

[Aeryn13]

56 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm trying to remember this is Natalie Fisher who thinks Dean should be seen and not heard but this sounds so preachy and horrible.

 

So apparently Amara won`t "possess" Sam, at least not here, and Jared really says the most random things on the planet. 

As for Dean`s "growth", well, he has been more diminished under Badd but apparently Amara tells him something positive if that wordy article is to be believed. His personal question is probably why she brought Mary back for him. Which was in no way a good thing for him but will be made into one? And what is his growth supposed to be from that? Getting to know her as an ice-queen so he could let go of his grief? 

The only other possible question could be if he (and Sam) are really just Chuck`s little playthings. And she would say "no". Which would fit into the theme of this Season but really has little to do with Dean specifically in the last four years. 

I think the moment will be underwhelming and confusing and probably stupid.     

[PAForrest]

Sounds incredibly awful - I mean, even worse than I was expecting. I intended to just dvr and FF to the Dean and Sam parts, since I have no interest in the "adorable bean" (and yes, don't read that with food in your mouth) and his walking wet nurse.

But given the hatred Dabb, Berens, and Perez have for Dean - and possibly Jensen - sounds like Amara trashes Dean, for his own good, doncha know. I definitely won't be watching live - wasn't going to anyway. But now I really don't know if I should bother even dvr'ing the episode. What a waste of one last precious week.

[ILoveReading]

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

As for Dean`s "growth", well, he has been more diminished under Badd but apparently Amara tells him something positive if that wordy article is to be believed. His personal question is probably why she brought Mary back for him. Which was in no way a good thing for him but will be made into one? And what is his growth supposed to be from that? Getting to know her as an ice-queen so he could let go of his grief? 

I'm not sure this will be about Mary.   The person who wrote the article thinks she was the bees knees and Dean was the problem.  She loved his 'growth' in The Raid.  So I don't see anyone admitting Mary was flawed.  

What makes me worried is that 'no room for interpretation.  They've been pushing this Dean is abusvie/John narrative since Jack showed up.  It can see Amara flat out telling Dean, he's just like his father.

[Casseiopeia]

22 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the moment will be underwhelming and confusing and probably stupid

So in other words S12-S15. Remember when we used to be so excited to watch an new episode. Now the anticipation is just dread.

[Aeryn13]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm not sure this will be about Mary.   The person who wrote the article thinks she was the bees knees and Dean was the problem.  She loved his 'growth' in The Raid.  So I don't see anyone admitting Mary was flawed.  

What makes me worried is that 'no room for interpretation.  They've been pushing this Dean is abusvie/John narrative since Jack showed up.  It can see Amara flat out telling Dean, he's just like his father.

While I have no faith in Badd, Perez or even the writer of this article, the way she worded it makes me think it is at least something akin to positive. It doesn`t say Amara calls him out or tells him hard truths or something which is how I think it would be worded.

Fisher probably makes a LOT more out of it than it actually ends up being but I think it is some variation of "you determine your own destiny" aka you are not a tool of your father, Chuck, whomever.      

[Myrelle]

11 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

So in other words S12-S15. Remember when we used to be so excited to watch an new episode. Now the anticipation is just dread.

Yup.

Because of Badd and his crew. 

Dread is the feeling that I'm getting for this one now, too.

And I have little doubt that this one will involve the dissolution of even the very nebulous bond that Dean has had with God's sister since she was introduced in early s11-and that will be so that she can be free to possess Sam when she returns. 

I don't think that was random from JP and I think it's still going to happen and it's going to be what Dean will have to "learn" to accept so that Sam can be the sole big damn hero again and save the world again and bring us full circle back to the s5 finale yet again and some more.

IOW, I think that Amara is going to tell Dean...wait for it...that he has to learn to let go of the people he loves so they can do what they have to in order to save the world while he only needs to watch and support them while they do that.

Yeah, can't wait for that...🤮

[Myrelle]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

While I have no faith in Badd, Perez or even the writer of this article, the way she worded it makes me think it is at least something akin to positive. It doesn`t say Amara calls him out or tells him hard truths or something which is how I think it would be worded.

Fisher probably makes a LOT more out of it than it actually ends up being but I think it is some variation of "you determine your own destiny" aka you are not a tool of your father, Chuck, whomever.      

I really, REALLY! hope you're right, Aeryn.

I'm just afraid that that particular blogger would see that same stupid message as "growth" for Dean and that's why she framed it sort of positively. 

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yup.

Because of Badd and his crew. 

Dread is the feeling that I'm getting for this one now, too.

And I have little doubt that this one will involve the dissolution of even the very nebulous bond that Dean has had with God's sister since she was introduced in early s11-and that will be so that she can be free to possess Sam when she returns. 

I don't think that was random from JP and I think it's still going to happen and it's going to be what Dean will have to "learn" to accept so that Sam can be the sole big damn hero again and save the world again and bring us full circle back to the s5 finale yet again and some more.

IOW, I think that Amara is going to tell Dean...wait for it...that he has to learn to let go of the people he loves so they can do what they have to in order to save the world while he only needs to watch and support them while they do that.

Yeah, can't wait for that...🤮

I don’t think they will throw Jackie-poo out of the saviour role. And if this was the message, they would have to since Dean is utterly fine with Jack going off and jumping into plot holes.

He is also squishy-mcbouncy with Jack since the last episode so an "abuser"-truth also wouldn't feel relevant right now.

Something that has been a Dean-theme over the course of the show and recently with this Season is "how much am I my own man".

I still think his personal question to her will be why she brought Amara back. And the answer will be sonething like "the actual gift wasn't her but bla bla".

[Myrelle]

I also think that his personal question will be why did she bring Mary back for him when he's just had to mourn her death all over again.

But I think that her answer is going to be so that he again has to "learn" to not hold on so tightly to his family and loved ones.

It's the "lesson" that, IMO, all of the Supernatural showrunners have just refused to let go of from S5 onward.

And we have that teary-eyed Sam spoiler from one of the earlier promos wherein he's referring to Dean always having his back and being his protector-likely just before he tells Dean to let him do whatever it is must be done so that Sam can do his part and "sacrifice" himself in order to save everyone/the world.

Geez, I SO! hope that I'm wrong about it only being another iteration of that stupid S5 finale, but I can't shake the feeling that Dabb had nothing original up his sleeve other than the addition of the NougatBabySue to TFW and that only for the purpose of being the red herring in the end.

[ILoveReading]

19 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

ut I think that her answer is going to be so that he again has to "learn" to not hold on so tightly to his family and loved ones.

This is where I'm leaning too. This is a big theme with and a big go to with Dabb and co. 

I'm still leaning toward Sam sacrificing himself.  This last ep, which gave Sam a last birthday. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Wouldn't it be nice:

Dean: Why did you bring my mother back when all she did was shatter any illusions I had of ever being loved unconditionally by even one of my parents?

Amara: My bad. Hey, even I didn't know my brother was douche enough to write that particular scenario into existence. Here's an unlimited, lifetime gift card to Biggerson's instead.

[Aeryn13]

It`s certainly possible that it will be something along those sucky lines. I`m not expecting much (if anything) from Badd and his crew.

Other things from the article:

- limited screentime for the brothers and the bulk of the episode is Cas and Jack, though Fisher says the Cas/Jack part is less weighty for the Seasonal plot than the parts with Amara (and that it looks like Amara will be back in the Finale) - don`t know about the last part, if you have her, why do you need Michael and Lucy

- what Cas wants to tell Dean (and Sam) isn`t about his Empty deal but something "super-important" that can be gleaned over the course of this episode - that seems to contradict the first part about how Cas/Jack isn`t that important for the long game, if Cas learns something "super-important", it would have to be, wouldn`t it?

The parts from the trailer about "you were always there, bla bla" from Sam to Dean are obviously super-fishy but I`m not entirely sure if they don`t somehow just play into whatever nonsense happens in the flashback episode

Then the one after that has Dean babysitting Jack on his trial and Cas and Sam ending up in Death`s library, maybe finding out Billie = Empty there. 

I have the lowest expectations but I find it hard to really piece it together right now conclusively. I still am undecided on why Jensen hated the ending. Was it that they died rather unceremoniously? One of them dying?    

 

[Myrelle]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The parts from the trailer about "you were always there, bla bla" from Sam to Dean are obviously super-fishy but I`m not entirely sure if they don`t somehow just play into whatever nonsense happens in the flashback episode

Then the one after that has Dean babysitting Jack on his trial and Cas and Sam ending up in Death`s library, maybe finding out Billie = Empty there. 

I have the lowest expectations but I find it hard to really piece it together right now conclusively. I still am undecided on why Jensen hated the ending. Was it that they died rather unceremoniously? One of them dying? 

Oh, it could come from the flashback episode! I forgot about that one. I hope so.

And hopefully my spec is just paranoia. 

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully. 

And I'm truly starting to think that he might have been unhappy with what you mention here-that they both die or one of them die-in which case, I'd rather they both die or just Dean, if it's only one of them.

[Myrelle]

I did see a spoiler photo that Jensen held up on his phone in a recent interview concerning the last 2 episodes. 

Dean's face was a bloody mess in the photo, but his face was a bloody mess in that stupid s5 finale, too, so who knows.

[Aeryn13]

30 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I did see a spoiler photo that Jensen held up on his phone in a recent interview concerning the last 2 episodes. 

Dean's face was a bloody mess in the photo, but his face was a bloody mess in that stupid s5 finale, too, so who knows.

There was this bit from the latest trailer/BTS where someone wearing a mask was applying bloody make-up to Jared's face. So obviously the shooting the last two episodes. Maybe Chuck smacks them around a bit? Would be ridiculous because he could easily kill them with one glance.

Badd also said it wasn't gonna be a big punchy God-fight but an "emotional confrontation" (here he referenced 5.22). So what, they speechify at Chuck till he gives in?

Edited October 14, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This is where I'm leaning too. This is a big theme with and a big go to with Dabb and co. 

I'm still leaning toward Sam sacrificing himself.  This last ep, which gave Sam a last birthday. 

Maybe but Dean told Sam to keep fighting when he went to Hell.  Sam told Dean to go live his life after he jumped in the pit.  Maybe this time Dean will tell Sam to go live his life with Eileen. Kind of both scenario's.  Sam gets to have a relationship and keep on fighting while Dean does???? 

Supposedly E19 is the end of the season arc. The next ep is the end of the series. The world should have already been saved or Jack does couples counseling with Chuck and Amara and because they are all family they all live happily ever after. Sam and Dean shouldn't have anything to sacrifice for.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Casseiopeia

[Aeryn13]

20 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Maybe but Dean told Sam to keep fighting when he went to Hell.  Sam told Dean to go live his life after he jumped in the pit.  Maybe this time Dean will tell Sam to go live his life with Eileen. Kind of both scenario's.  Sam gets to have a relationship and keep on fighting while Dean does???? 

Supposedly E19 is the end of the season arc. The next ep is the end of the series. The world should have already been saved or Jack does couples counseling with Chuck and Amara and because they are all family they all live happily ever after. Sam and Dean shouldn't have anything to sacrifice for.

This random romance storyline they`ve introduced for Sam this Season and picked up again in the last episode could be his "living happily ever after". I mean, if they wanted it done, they could have used their little "break-up" after Chuck kidnapped them. 

I mean, since it`s Sam, it`s not just thrown in for nothing. 

Before, I didn`t think they would go the offscreen-timeskip in the final episode where you see them do some goodbye tour and then they die of "old age" but you never see their lifes, you only get to see them meet up in the afterlife. Maybe this is exactly what happens. I think Jensen could have found that stupid and weird. 

[Bergamot]

8 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I'm trying to remember this is Natalie Fisher who thinks Dean should be seen and not heard but this sounds so preachy and horrible.

Yes, I tend to take what this writer says with a grain of salt. Part of this is because she and I are obviously watching different shows – I mean, this is someone who once claimed that Season 13 was the “Golden Age” of Supernatural. But there is also her sometimes florid and overripe style of writing, which can make what she says sound inflated and "preachy".

I think that she just has a habit of overstating things. I remember in her review of "Lebanon" how she talked about both brothers being “permanently changed for the better” by their encounters with John in that episode.  I honestly didn’t know what she was talking about. That’s why I am skeptical when she says, for example, that Castiel says something that is “SUPER important” at the end of the episode. I think it probably has something to do with what she mentions earlier, where Castiel “chooses to share” with a church group the story of his journey so far and “verbalizes his own growth”. Castiel's “super important” line is probably something about how he now realizes his self-worth and his place in the universe, or something like that.

I thiink that what Amara says to Dean must be something about Mary, because of what Fisher says about how “Amara knew what she was doing" when she did whatever it was. It sounds as if their private conversation is about something she did in regard to Dean in the past, and what else could it be besides bringing back Mary? As to what great “self-actualization” truth Amara supposedly lays on him, I really don’t know. For all we know it could turn out to be like the brothers supposedly being changed forever by their conversations with John in the "Lebanon" episode, where I end up saying, "Yeah, sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about". I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

[ILoveReading]

12 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Dean must be something about Mary,

I wonder if Amara tells Dean he's been too hard on Jack and Cas over the death of someone who wanted nothing to do with him.  I could see him struggling that to himself.  I fully expect a scene of Dean grovelling before Jack. 

[Terese]

I have not heard of this person, nor do I understand why she is allowed to prescreen episodes, then reveal her take on them in advance of the airing.

However, based on this season, I would say everything has been reduced down to whatever would fit in a nutshell. If there was an epiphany that Amara would share with Dean, it would be of single note, steering the character towards a plot point. "I told you so, not because I know or know the truth; but, because I said so. Therefore, it is."

This is the same circular logic that has been employed for the last two years. It has justified glaring retcons of characters, canon and lore. 

 

 

[Bergamot]

4 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Supposedly E19 is the end of the season arc. The next ep is the end of the series. The world should have already been saved or Jack does couples counseling with Chuck and Amara and because they are all family they all live happily ever after. Sam and Dean shouldn't have anything to sacrifice for.

This is a good point! I guess the implication then would be that whatever happens to save the world, through Jack's actions or whatever, has dire consequences for Dean and Sam, which we then see play out in the final episode.

My current guess is that these consequences, which they are forced to agree to or even to help bring about, mean that they will be permanently separated from each other. Jeremy Adams said something about the reset button being significant; if he was talking about the finale, maybe it means that Dean and Sam grow up differently, without having a bond between them or maybe even not knowing each other. Kind of like having "What Is and What Should Never Be Redux" instead of "Swan Song Redux".

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

This is a good point! I guess the implication then would be that whatever happens to save the world, through Jack's actions or whatever, has dire consequences for Dean and Sam, which we then see play out in the final episode

Yes.

I'm pretty certain of this.

And I would further guess, as someone else here mentioned before IIRC, that one of the brothers(likely Dean) is again having trouble "letting go"/accepting those dire consequences in the finale and that will be at the heart and the crux of the finale.

 

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Bergamot said:

This is a good point! I guess the implication then would be that whatever happens to save the world, through Jack's actions or whatever, has dire consequences for Dean and Sam, which we then see play out in the final episode.

My current guess is that these consequences, which they are forced to agree to or even to help bring about, mean that they will be permanently separated from each other. Jeremy Adams said something about the reset button being significant; if he was talking about the finale, maybe it means that Dean and Sam grow up differently, without having a bond between them or maybe even not knowing each other. Kind of like having "What Is and What Should Never Be Redux" instead of "Swan Song Redux".

For me this would affect my desire to rewatch the series if it ends that way. My problems with Sam notwithstanding the show is ultimately about the Winchesters and an ending like this would erase everything that made me a fan in the early years.

[tessathereaper]

57 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

For me this would affect my desire to rewatch the series if it ends that way. My problems with Sam notwithstanding the show is ultimately about the Winchesters and an ending like this would erase everything that made me a fan in the early years.

That's been what Dabb's been after all along.  Erasing everything that made the show great to begin with.

[Terese]

21 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

That's been what Dabb's been after all along.  Erasing everything that made the show great to begin with.

You are absolutely right. I feel so cynical and would prefer not to think this way. It has been an obvious sabotage. Unveiled and in your face, a,systematic destruction of every aspect of the show, it mocks with cheap imitations of past struggles and glories.

Chuck, who prepared to sacrifice himself, found renewed faith in all beings, in particular with Sam and Dean, to whom he showed nothing but love and respect is now this crazed usurper of free will!?

Those ghosts running down the street in broad daylight with obvious costume and theatrical makeup was not a budget issue or poor direction. It was a deliberate attempt to insist how silly the early Kripke years were.

Heroes Journey was nothing but a reminder of actors emoting whatever the script demands, while writers control the stage, as the puppets literally danced.

It isn't even about Jack, they never developed him well enough to make him the believable hero. They have shown him flawed and naive, stupid and childish. They even ridiculed the very idea of it when he learned how to blow bubbles. And yet, they show Sam and Dean literally sitting in the background accepting it. 

They know exactly what they are doing.

[Aeryn13]

2 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

That's been what Dabb's been after all along.  Erasing everything that made the show great to begin with.

I've long since decided that, baring a miracle, I will let the show end at Season 11 for me. Not the best but acceptable.

[Castiels Cat]

12 hours ago, Bergamot said:

This is a good point! I guess the implication then would be that whatever happens to save the world, through Jack's actions or whatever, has dire consequences for Dean and Sam, which we then see play out in the final episode.

My current guess is that these consequences, which they are forced to agree to or even to help bring about, mean that they will be permanently separated from each other. Jeremy Adams said something about the reset button being significant; if he was talking about the finale, maybe it means that Dean and Sam grow up differently, without having a bond between them or maybe even not knowing each other. Kind of like having "What Is and What Should Never Be Redux" instead of "Swan Song Redux".

Yes... I thought something like this could happen.

If it ends up with Chuck undoing his "help" ... the timeline changes... 

How does that affect the present. 

[Aeryn13]

While I'm rather pessimistic about Amara's "reveal" today for some reason, I don’t think they will retcon the entire show. How even would that work if Chuck is dealt with in ep 19? What purpose would it serve if they "defeat" him?

I had hoped the press release for 18 would tell us something but it was just a vague "things happen".

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:52 PM, ILoveReading said:

This is where I'm leaning too. This is a big theme with and a big go to with Dabb and co. 

I'm still leaning toward Sam sacrificing himself.  This last ep, which gave Sam a last birthday. 

Or Chuck intervened which is why Sam was born or didn't die in the fire before he had his first birthday...

If that's a hint it can mean a lot of things especially when a petty vengeful Creator can change things with a snap of his fingers.

 

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:06 PM, Aeryn13 said:

I don’t think they will throw Jackie-poo out of the saviour role. And if this was the message, they would have to since Dean is utterly fine with Jack going off and jumping into plot holes.

He is also squishy-mcbouncy with Jack since the last episode so an "abuser"-truth also wouldn't feel relevant right now.

Something that has been a Dean-theme over the course of the show and recently with this Season is "how much am I my own man".

I still think his personal question to her will be why she brought Amara back. And the answer will be sonething like "the actual gift wasn't her but bla bla".

I don't know. In that episode in which Sam was stupidly caught by God and tied to a chair and tortured and tricked and played the fool and lost all hope... Dean came in and Dean stood up to God and challenged him. Dean refused to follow Chuck's script... AGAIN.  Didn't Chuck say how can you still be like this? He was speaking specifically about Dean. This is all about Dean. I think it has to come back to the two of them.

I am reminded a bit of s 13 when Lucifer and Dean were circling each other warily and finally in the Vampire Cave Debacle episode Dean makes it clear that Lucifer is on his radar. From that point on I knew Dean would kill him. It didn't matter that Jack was his son or Sam had the history... Dean had laid down the gauntlet.

Dean was the one to lay down the gauntlet to Chuck's face and Dean happens to be the one that Chuck has always been interested in. Dean is his firewall.  Dean changes his story. He answers when Dean calls... sometimes.

Dabb is a comic book guy. I think that a laying down the gauntlet moment is no accident.

To me they have set Jack up on this paint by numbers quest that's as wrong as any of the other quests he has been on AND every one of Jack's quests has been wrong because he either follows the wrong mentor or because he lacks judgement, knowledge, true morality. He parrots these things because he wants to be like his fathers but he has never been shown to have developed these qualities as of yet be6he is too young and supernatural.

[ILoveReading]

Now, granted I'm not a script writer, but do people actually write stuff like this in their scripts that you made yourself sad.  Actors need to know what the characters are supposed to feel.  Not you.

No wonder the episodes come across as a 12 year old's fan fic.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Now, granted I'm not a script writer, but do people actually write stuff like this in their scripts that you made yourself sad.  Actors need to know what the characters are supposed to feel.  Not you.

No wonder the episodes come across as a 12 year old's fan fic.

 

 

She wrote that into a professional script that actors and department heads got to read? Yikes. I would accept this as an in-story note from an immature, overexcited 12year old in their first fanfic. Before it is beta-read.

[gonzosgirrl]

She is an embarrassment.

[ukgirl71]

Oh dear, I just read that while eating dinner - not me best idea!

[gonzosgirrl]

Even money says it's a woobie Sam scene. I'd have said woobie Jack but this is the WeeChesters episode, right? So only about 60/40 that it's Jack.

[ahrtee]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Even money says it's a woobie Sam scene. I'd have said woobie Jack but this is the WeeChesters episode, right? So only about 60/40 that it's Jack.

Probably Dean being mean to him.  Leaving Sam alone to go chase after a girl, either at home (where he only has a can of soup to eat) or at Chuck E. Cheese.  

ETA: of course, that assumes she knows that version of canon, so never mind.  Something else entirely.  

Edited October 21, 2020 by ahrtee

[Aeryn13]

35 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Even money says it's a woobie Sam scene. I'd have said woobie Jack but this is the WeeChesters episode, right? So only about 60/40 that it's Jack.

I would bet it`s the scene from the trailer, the "you always protected me" scene. From the promo pics there is not only the Weechesters but two other kids and they all seem involved in the case of the witch-y thing. The one boy will die.

And the girl, now grown up into the female guest star, finds them to tell them that they didn`t really defeat It back then...oops, did I say It? Because I bet dollars to donuts that is largely the plot. I wonder if Stephen King also wrote "I just hurt my heart" somewhere in his first draft of the novel.

It will end with some emotional "we only have us" declaration at the end. Likely the one we saw in the first trailer that aired for the final episodes returning.    

Edited October 21, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Smad]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

She wrote that into a professional script that actors and department heads got to read? Yikes. I would accept this as an in-story note from an immature, overexcited 12year old in their first fanfic. Before it is beta-read.

She went to the Benioff&Weiss school of script writing. If you have ever read their scripts, you'd think they were juvenile idiots. And considering their scripts won multiple Emmy awards, I think the entire industry is run by dumb children. So this woman is just more of the same.

[ILoveReading]

The Dean/Amara scene in the last ep seems a perfect set up for Amara to possess Sam.

Because Amara will either be mad at Dean because he lied to her and she wants nothing to do with him, or because, he didn't and doesn't want to hurt her so he steps aside and lets Sam do it. 

Every ep seems to contain 'character growth' with Dean letting go of something.

It just seems to random a thing for Jared to toss out. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by ILoveReading

[Casseiopeia]

38 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

The Dean/Amara scene in the last ep seems a perfect set up for Amara to possess Sam.

But why would she need to possess Sam? She already has her own body. Chuck never possessed anyone. Not that I'm putting it past Dabb to do something like that but why introduce totally new canon/lore this late in the season/series?

[Myrelle]

38 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

The Dean/Amara scene in the last ep seems a perfect set up for Amara to possess Sam.

Because Amara will either be mad at Dean because he lied to her and she wants nothing to do with him, or because, he didn't and doesn't want to hurt her so he steps aside and lets Sam do it. 

Every ep seems to contain 'character growth' with Dean letting go of something.

It just seems to random a thing for Jared to toss out. 

Sadly, I have to agree.

He did not just throw that out there, IMO either.

My greatest concern is with what Dean will be doing.

If he's just cheerleading again, well, fuck that.

 

3 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

But why would she need to possess Sam? She already has her own body. Chuck never possessed anyone. Not that I'm putting it past Dabb to do something like that but why introduce totally new canon/lore this late in the season/series?

If Chuck possesses Dean, at least that would be better than strictly the cheerleader role.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

He did not just throw that out there, IMO either.

2 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

But why would she need to possess Sam?

LOL! canon.  I still remember Jared at comic con saying, 'If Sam was alive or dead, or if he was possessed by Amara,'  Why would he throw out something that random? 

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

He did not just throw that out there, IMO either

Jared also pretty much described the last ep with the exact same words he descibed Swan Song. 

Swan Song- Now that I know how it ends, I love it.

Finale- Now that I know how it ends, I couldn't be more proud.

[Myrelle]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

LOL! canon.  I still remember Jared at comic con saying, 'If Sam was alive or dead, or if he was possessed by Amara,'  Why would he throw out something that random? 

Jared also pretty much described the last ep with the exact same words he descibed Swan Song. 

Swan Song- Now that I know how it ends, I love it.

Finale- Now that I know how it ends, I couldn't be more proud.

Yeah, his ever overblown love for it, is actually what worries me the most about it.