These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[legendinmyownmind]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:34 PM, ahrtee said:

Or are you just insulted in general at the idea of someone getting something you feel he/she doesn't deserve? 

I think it's incredibly insulting to infer that someone is insulted just because they don't want any of the actor's wives on the show.

[SueB]

AU!Michael is the big bad of the second half of the season. At least that was the plan per Bob Singer at Comic Con time.  They can, of course, change their mind but that's the setup they started the season with.  It's a spoiler (of course) but not a well-hidden one.

[Pondlass1]

Too may big bads IMO.  KFC guy, AU Michael, Lucifer, Ketch, plus the weekly MOTWs - and none of them particularly big or bad unless writers step off the usual safe path.  It was all much simpler in the beginning.

I wonder if Mary will join up with the Waywards?  

[catrox14]

I think my definition of Big Bad never matches the show's definition or intention of Big Bad LOL

Lucifer should have been the Big Bad and I still have a silly hope that somehow he's been planning all along to make Jack his minion child and will control the Earth by false kindness (which is what Lucifer did make in s5 and even in s12).  Like I hope we find out that Jack is really evil because of Nature/Lucifer.

Amara was supposed to be the big bad and she was until suddenly she was just misunderstood and lonesome. And they tried to get me to swallow that with Lucifer. 

I mean to me the Big Bad of the entire series is really God LOL. But that's just me.

Fans seem to love Woobie Jack and they better be ready for backlash if they make him the Big Bad. Michael I'm torn about being the Big Bad unless Dean gets into the ring with him. Asmodeus is ridiculous and a terrible big bad thus far. Like the show nerfs Cas all the time but they give a Prince of Hell more power than anyone not named God.  I mean at this point if the boys aren't trying to find a way to kill Asmodeus they are terrible hunters

Obviously, Cas is out of his clutches as of 13.13, but how does he get out? Do he and Lucifer make deal with Asmodeus??? Ugh. I hate that character so much

[ILoveReading]

Quote

He's proved popular so they may not take him full on evil and upset fans. 

Jack doesn't even have a dark side.  I doubt he'll even go beige let alone evil. 

 

7 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I wonder if Mary will join up with the Waywards? 

I doubt this.  They've already established that Mary barely wants anything to do with her own kids.  Since I figure Jody and Donna will be mother figures to the teenage hunter sues, its really going to put Mary in a bad light if she's suddenly on board to be a mom to teenager she barely knows. 

I'm not really sure Dabb and Co. have a clue who the big bad is.  I figure they're using the wall method.  Introduce a bunch a potential big bads and see which ones the audiences responds to the most.  Michael, Asmodeus, Ketch, The Shadim.  I doubt they have a clue what to do with any of these character.  They've already admitted they make it up as they go along.   

I really like Ketch but I'm sure they'll redeem him becasue apparently no one is really allowed to be evil.  I'm sure Lucifer will be a good guy by the end of the season.

Michael with either go to Mary or Sam.   Jack will probably take care of The Shadim and Asmodeus. (Or Sam will).

Dean will...be there I guess. 

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jack doesn't even have a dark side.  I doubt he'll even go beige let alone evil. 

Lol...

[Pondlass1]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I doubt he'll even go beige let alone evil. 

This made me laugh out loud!    And they spend too much budget and time on the boring slow-mo slamming people into objects while Jack holds his arm out like he's hailing a cab. I'd hope for less special effects and more complex and unpredictable Jack next year.  

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

apparently no one is really allowed to be evil. 

Not even Demon Dean.

[companionenvy]

4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Not even Demon Dean.

Hey! Demon Dean was rude to a woman! And sang bad karaoke....loudly! That's totally pure evil!

On the subject of this thread, I don't like the number of characters they're bringing back from the dead. I was expecting (and hoping) for Cas to come back. But as apparently Rowena is back (for the second time, no less), that's three non-deaths from the last two episodes of S12. That's just silly, IMO. 

If you don't want to write characters off the show, stop killing them.  Bringing them back five minutes later is just toying with our emotions. 

[ParadoxLost]

2 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Hey! Demon Dean was rude to a woman! And sang bad karaoke....loudly! That's totally pure evil!

On the subject of this thread, I don't like the number of characters they're bringing back from the dead. I was expecting (and hoping) for Cas to come back. But as apparently Rowena is back (for the second time, no less), that's three non-deaths from the last two episodes of S12. That's just silly, IMO. 

If you don't want to write characters off the show, stop killing them.  Bringing them back five minutes later is just toying with our emotions. 

I still think all the "deaths" at the end of S12 were just a cover to limit the blowback of actually killing off Crowley.

They aren't just toying with emotions, they are manipulating them.

Edited December 22, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I still think all the "deaths" at the end of S12 were just a cover to limit the blowback of actually killing off Crowley.

That may have been their thought process behind it, but for me it had the opposite effect.  They cheapened the death of a great character for no reason.  The episode could have ended with Crowley making one last play on behalf of TFW, and it would have been a fitting end for a very popular character.  Or better yet, they could have actually come up with something interesting for him to do, and not killed him off at all.  That would have been my preference.  Asmodeus makes my teeth hurt.

[shoetingstar]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:51 AM, ILoveReading said:

Jack doesn't even have a dark side.  I doubt he'll even go beige let alone evil. 

LOL - this cracke me up! He gave a couple side-eye looks. That's about it!

On 12/21/2017 at 4:02 PM, companionenvy said:

Hey! Demon Dean was rude to a woman! And sang bad karaoke....loudly! That's totally pure evil!

On the subject of this thread, I don't like the number of characters they're bringing back from the dead. I was expecting (and hoping) for Cas to come back. But as apparently Rowena is back (for the second time, no less), that's three non-deaths from the last two episodes of S12. That's just silly, IMO. 

If you don't want to write characters off the show, stop killing them.  Bringing them back five minutes later is just toying with our emotions. 

Hilarious!! Well, he also had - the sex! That's totally different from Normal!Dean! It cracks me up that said sex was with like one chick in a few weeks period, if I'm remember correctly. How EE-VIL of him!

I'm with you - the deaths are just annoying at this point. Cheap Tricks are better as a Band than a constantly used TV Writing device.

Edited December 26, 2017 by shoetingstar

[MysteryGuest]

13 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

Hilarious!! Well, he also had - the sex! That's totally different from Normal!Dean! It cracks me up that said sex was with like one chick in a few weeks period, if I'm remember correctly. How EE-VIL of him!

Well, there was that reference to triplets that Crowley mentioned.  I think we were supposed to assume that Dean was hitting on just about everything.  There was the strip club scene, too, which added to that impression.

[shoetingstar]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, there was that reference to triplets that Crowley mentioned.  I think we were supposed to assume that Dean was hitting on just about everything.  There was the strip club scene, too, which added to that impression.

Forgot about that - I have to rewatch that eppy. But it's hilarious because Normal Dean had a threesome with the twins in Season 3.  Triplets are totally new ground according to the Writers!

(btw, This only adds to my bitterness over the potential wasted -  if they just had to have Dean be a Demon....Which also adds to my personal bitterness about the wasted potential of Vampire!Dean...)

Edited December 27, 2017 by shoetingstar

[MysteryGuest]

2 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

Forgot about that - I have to rewatch that eppy. But it's hilarious because Normal Dean had a threesome with the twins in Season 3.  Triplets are totally new ground according to the Writers!

(btw, This only adds to my bitterness over the potential wasted -  if they just had to have Dean be a Demon....Which also adds to my personal bitterness about the wasted potential of Vampire!Dean...)

I'm in total agreement about the wasted potential.  If they were going to "go there", then they needed to go all the way.  Not that I wanted to see Dean running around killing innocent people, but we needed to see more of his dark side.  They gave us brief glimpses, such as his confrontation with Crowley, and his explanation to Sam about why he didn't just kill Cole outright.  We needed to see more of that side of Dean.  I mean, he was a demon.

[Pondlass1]

They definitely chickened out when it came to Demon Dean.   The CW kept promoting "Year of the Deanmon".  We got three measly weeks of karaoke and beer.  Still, there were some shivery dark moments with Dean.  Jensen is kinda brilliant when it comes to portraying scary.  Those pretty green eyes can turn dark and threatening in a flash.

And teen Jack will probably remain beige (love that description) now that he's been accepted into fandom.

It's a shame.

[catrox14]

17 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, there was that reference to triplets that Crowley mentioned.  I think we were supposed to assume that Dean was hitting on just about everything.  There was the strip club scene, too, which added to that impression.

Demon Dean didnt give shit what he did and he didn't care about anyone or anything which to me was the scary part. He could flip on a dime as we saw with the stripper and then with Lester which is what I found so interesting about Demon Dean. He was predictable in that he went to strips clubs and had random sex but he was kind of chaotic, IMO.  Regular Dean IMO, cared TOO much about everything which lead him to some dubious decisions (Gadreel possession and selling his soul for Sam) whereas Demon Dean was all about himself regardless.  It still irks me that he had finally taken on Crowley and was going to win, when they destroyed demon!Dean. They could have written a half season of Demon Dean screwing up Crowley's  order just because he could. Just because he was sick of Crowley, cause he felt like screwing it up. Instead they gave frakking Lucifer the "muck up the universe and break things because he could plot". Ugh.

I just don't care about Jack at all. I don't care about him being good or bad. Jack annoys me.

I hate that Michael is going to be the big bad and is being portrayed as worse than Lucifer now. And yes it's the AU Michael, but the Regular Michael wasn't shown to be that kind of character. And once more it's all in service of Lucifer. UGH

I hate that Jack is not being given any darkness thus far. I'm sick of his Cinnamon Roll act. Give me some evil Jack please.

I do want to know what is going to be the fallout from destruction of The men of letters bunker in Wichita and Jody shooting Hess in the head.Right now that is a big plot hole IMO. How does a huge facility like that blow up and the fire department not investigate it? It wasn't in Sioux Falls so unless Jody has ties to the Wichita police and fire why isn't that being dealt with at some other higher level? 

How much time passed between the end of 12.22 when Mary kills Ketch and his showing up as his "twin brother" and working for Asmodeus?  Ketch claimed he was a mercenary hunter but it's only been like a couple of weeks between the end of 12.23 and when eh showed up again. Why would the mobile bunker being destroyed not come up at all? So stupid IMO

ETA: What about the mention of Hess wanting a portal to be opened for her? Where is that portal going?  How is being opened?  Could there be a link between the BMoL and dreamwalkers? And maybe that is how they opened portals?

Seems like something the BMOL would want to know about.

Edited December 27, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

I was rewatching Swan Song early s6 and a few things struck wrt to the current situation with AU Michael, Castiel and Lucifer

 I'm kind of annoyed with what they've done with AU Michael thus far but I'm still on his team because he tortured Lucifer. I just wish he would have killed him, but oh well. Mary got herself in that mess in the first place by taking on Lucifer one and one without apparently telling the boys her plan. That said,  I'm not sure why he's torturing Mary other than angst for Dean and Sam to be all MUST SAVE MARY and kill Michael. It's a dumb storyline for AU Michael. side bar: I thought it was really strange when Sam said to Dean "Mom knew what she was doing" in 13.3. Did she really think she would end up in the AU with Lucifer because she decided to punch him with the Enochian brass knuckles? I'm side-eying Sam on that still. Weird.

Castiel said in s6 that he spent a year as a multi dimensional wavelength of Celestial Intent which IMO means he can cross multiple dimensions in time and space, or he could until he lost the use of his wings, probably the same for the other angels as well. That ability along with Ash mentioning that he could use string theory to track beings in Heaven, leads me to think there is one universal Heaven for all universes and dimensions and each universe has a portal to the shared Heaven. Of course, maybe that is just my hope that Dabb is going to do something like that since he wrote the episode that created Ash using string theory to cross space and time in Heaven. Just sayin it's there in canon that it's a thing. 

Anyhooo, at the end of Swan Song, Castiel said he was going back to Heaven given Michael being in the Cage now as it was, probably chaos in Heaven, implying that Michael was leading Heaven at that time. I still think he wasn't the one making Zachariah do the stuff he was doing on Earth.  Michael's goal was killing Lucifer but it was never said by Michael that he wanted to usher in Heaven on Earth nor that he wanted to destroy humanity intentionally.  He saw humanity as the casualty of his war with Lucifer. It's cold yes but IMO not the same thing as what the others were attempting.YMMV that's my opinion.

Right now, AU Michael has fully functional wings as we saw, so why does it take rift opening for him to cross dimensions? Lucifer could still teleport even after losing some of his grace which I guess is because archangel power. But Cas is different because he still has tattered wings and still can't teleport. Regular!Michael should still have his wings as well if no mental capacity because he was in the Cage when they angels fell.

I'm wondering if AUMichael is Regular!Michael who escaped the cage and made his way to the other world and fought Lucifer leading to the Apocalypse World? I think it's weird that AU Michael recognized Lucifer as his brother but Lucifer didn't recognize him. What's up with that given angels are supposed to be able to recognize each other upon sight which AU Michael did but Lucifer didn't.

Why would AU Michael want to cross over to Earth via a rift if he could just go back to Heaven through a portal.

He did arise  from the ground vs coming down from Heaven? Is he currently running Hell instead of Heaven? Or does everyone live underground now because of the war?  Does he just want Earth resources?

Or could he have been banished from Heaven and his goal is to get back to Heaven to make things right in Heaven and get control of Heaven again? He seemed upset that the portal was for one person and he ordered AU Kevin to fix it. Could AUMichael be Michael who escaped the cage and made his way to the other world and fought Lucifer leading to the Apocalypse World?

I would love to see him be as "misunderstood* as Lucifer and maybe he wants to save what's left of humanity in the AU by taking them to Our!Earth. If Lucifer is getting a redemption arc as is being implied thus far, why can't Michael, who is not nearly the monster that Lucifer has been.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

  Michael's goal was killing Lucifer but it was never said by Michael that he wanted to usher in Heaven on Earth nor that he wanted to destroy humanity intentionally.  He saw humanity as the casualty of his war with Lucifer. It's cold yes but IMO not the same thing as what the others were attempting.YMMV that's my opinion.

I think both... that he's cold and that he wanted to usher in heaven on earth (more on this in a minute), however, I don't necessarily think that Michael thought that that was necessarily a bad thing. He likely thought that heaven on earth would be a good thing. That doesn't necessarily mean that it actually was a good thing, though, nor does it make Michael good in my opinion. Lots of villains think they what they are doing is for everyone's own good, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily true. For me Michael potentially falls into that category. Although it could also be that Michael just wanted to accomplish what he thought was God's plan and that he didn't care what that necessarily meant for humanity, and doing it because he thought that it would be good didn't enter into it. However, for me, either of those would still fall into the bad category.

The reason why I think Michael knew about the heaven on earth thing and either thought it was good or didn't care was because of the prophecy. If Castiel knew of the prophecy and what it meant, then I would think Michael would also have to have known about it and what it meant. And if Michael knew the prophecy was false or exaggerated or what have you, I think he would have - or should have - told Dean that. What better way to convince Dean to say "yes" than to let Dean know that the prophecy wasn't as it appeared, that earth wouldn't be half destroyed, and that the apocalypse really wasn't going to happen? If he just wanted to kill Lucifer, Dean - and Sam, too - would have been on board with that. The main - likely only - reason that Sam and Dean weren't on board with the say "yes" plan from the beginning was because of the consequences... so my conclusion is that the apocalypse was going to happen and Michael knew about it and didn't lie about that point. If there weren't these horrible consequences of him killing Lucifer, then, in my opinion, why wouldn't Michael say so? What would be the point of the prophecy? And Sam and Castiel not going along with Dean's say "yes" plan would just make them look stubborn and unsupportive - which I don't believe was the intention of the narrative.

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I would love to see him be as "misunderstood* as Lucifer and maybe he wants to save what's left of humanity in the AU by taking them to Our!Earth. If Lucifer is getting a redemption arc as is being implied thus far, why can't Michael, who is not nearly the monster that Lucifer has been.

In my opinion, even if Michael isn't the monster Lucifer is - which even that could be debated, I think - his nature might make redemption less likely. If either of the reasonings above are the case - that Michael was just cold and didn't care much about humanity because he was doing what he thought God wanted (especially this one) or if he thought he was doing the right thing and was doing so stubbornly and Dean couldn't convince him otherwise - I think Michael is less malleable than Lucifer. Lucifer's flaws actually make him more easy to manipulate  into doing the right thing, in my opinion. Lucifer is arrogant, so convincing him he'd be admired if he did the right thing might be enough to get him to do so... but Michael would be more likely to stick to his opinion and do what he thought was right, even if it really wasn't.

Just my opinion on that.

For me though, Michael was a villain from the start, mostly because he had the ability to stop what was happening and he chose not to... and even ordered the resurrection of Adam to make sure that it would happen, not caring about the consequences as long as he accomplished his goal of killing Lucifer. For me, that's not remotely good, and the chances for redemption are less.

[catrox14]

From spoilers
 

Quote

 

@sueb said Jodys  line to Claire will be

"Sam and Dean are on a hunting trip and they haven't been home in a few days"

 

It's literally those same words? I thought it would be a variation on the theme. Ugh that irritates me to no end. I'm petty that way..  the Trek intros for their spinoffs altered their intros a little bit when the next generation came about. Of course that was 20 years after Star trek had gone off the air so it was an appropriate call back to the original but SPN is still on the air and back door pilot is coming out of the currently running show, which itself still uses that phrase and  they still show it in flashbacks.  It feels like it's just coopting all the classic SPN stuff from a show that still running.

I mean if SPN was off the air I would think aww that's cool. But doing it this way now just rankles.

[SueB]

I think it's cool.  I think THEY think it's cool and not remotely disrespectful but an homage.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think it's cool.  I think THEY think it's cool and not remotely disrespectful but an homage.

You may think it's cool. THEY may think it's cool. I, for one, do not which is why I'm griping about it here in the bitterness thread.

[Diane]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think it's cool.  I think THEY think it's cool and not remotely disrespectful but an homage.

 

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You may think it's cool. THEY may think it's cool. I, for one, do not which is why I'm griping about it here in the bitterness thread.

It's a homage, i would not consider them co opting to me.  We are in the 13th season, it's been a long time since it started the series.  

[ILoveReading]

IMO, there is homage and there is literal copying and pasting.

I feel like these writers do the latter. 

Some things should be iconic and not repeated.

[DittyDotDot]

Eh, I've never really thought of it as an iconic line anyway, not like "We've got work to do" or "Saving people, hunting things; the family business" or "Family don't end with blood". I might be able to get worked up about it if the show itself had turned into an iconic line, though. As it is, I think it will be a nice tribute in honor of the show they were spawned. At least they're planning to acknowledge Supernatural.

And, TBH, all this angst may be for nothing because Wayward may not even get picked up for series. My meter has shifted down over the last week or so, and just when I was starting to be somewhat optimistic on this front.

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, Diane said:

 

It's a homage, i would not consider them co opting to me.  We are in the 13th season, it's been a long time since it started the series.  

 

For me this is why it rankles so much:

That line had HUGE emotional weight in s1 and for the entire show. Sam, Dean and John had not spoken for 2 years. That's a long ass time. Jensen's line delivery expressed just how serious it was. IMO in that instant, it was clear that Dean and Sam had years of baggage between them. It showed the gravity of Dad going missing which forced them to resume contact after 2 years, never mind that it was bringing Sam back into the hunting life that he wanted out of in the first place. He was not happy about it. It showed that Dean was kind of desperate to have to call upon Sam in that moment

Claire is already hunting. She isn't being drawn back to something she doesn't want to do anymore. AFAIK, it's not been a 2 year no contact separation between Jody and Claire nor that they parted ways on horribly bad terms. There is no evidence of years of lingering resentments and animosity which was all at the root of  "Dad's been on a hunting trip. And hasn't been home in the few days". The context and significance of that original line is diluted by using it for Wayward Sisters. And I am pissed off that I even have to say, "Original Line" now because other one will exist that makes people say Original Line. I mean I guess I'll just have to say  OGSPN or something now LOL

Why not give them their own iconic opening line?  ."The boys have been missing for a few days. We need to find them Claire, you need to come home. Your family needs you." Something like that reminds of family doesn't end in blood, reminds of the "dad has been gone for a few days" and is more specific to Wayward Sisters without literally repurposing the original phrase.  I'm gonna be bitter about this for some time LOL. YMMV 

26 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Eh, I've never really thought of it as an iconic line anyway, not like "We've got work to do" or "Saving people, hunting things; the family business" or "Family don't end with blood". I might be able to get worked up about it if the show itself had turned into an iconic line, though. As it is, I think it will be a nice tribute in honor of the show they were spawned. At least they're planning to acknowledge Supernatural.

And, TBH, all this angst may be for nothing because Wayward may not even get picked up for series. My meter has shifted down over the last week or so, and just when I was starting to be somewhat optimistic on this front.

Even if it doesn't get picked up to series, I'll forever be annoyed that they re purposed it. LOL YMMV

[companionenvy]

My problem is a lot more literal.  The line in the pilot made sense because Dean couldn't be totally open in front of Jess. Otherwise, Dean would never have said "Dad's on a hunting trip." He would have said "He was on a hunt, Sam" or possibly even something more direct. It was a great line, too, because Sam's reaction immediately made it clear that "hunting trip," in this case, meant something different and more serious than hunting deer with his buddies. 

Repeating that language out of context is just weird. When does anyone on this show ever talk about hunts as "being on a hunting trip?" "Sam and Dean are missing" would be way more natural, IMO.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

My problem is a lot more literal.  The line in the pilot made sense because Dean couldn't be totally open in front of Jess. Otherwise, Dean would never have said "Dad's on a hunting trip." He would have said "He was on a hunt, Sam" or possibly even something more direct. It was a great line, too, because Sam's reaction immediately made it clear that "hunting trip," in this case, meant something different and more serious than hunting deer with his buddies. 

Repeating that language out of context is just weird. When does anyone on this show ever talk about hunts as "being on a hunting trip?" "Sam and Dean are missing" would be way more natural, IMO.

That's a great point. I kind of forgot that it was almost a surreptitious line. Dean couldn't say "Dad is missing and I'm worried that the demon has him " Lol.

And really , does Jody even know they were in a hunting trip? She knew they were looking for Jack. Does she know Jack is the archangels spwan of Satan? At this point that is really the only way I can see that line working. That Jody doesn't want to say that they are looking for Satan's spawn and she doesn't want Claireb to know that's why she has to come home. And even if she did know what would she say it that way to Claire who already knows all about Angels. Is she trying to say it in front of a person who is not in the know? 

I can't think of a good context for it practically, storywise, or emotionally.

[Myrelle]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:41 PM, catrox14 said:

I'm wondering if AUMichael is Regular!Michael who escaped the cage and made his way to the other world and fought Lucifer leading to the Apocalypse World?

I don't like this idea at all, but would love it if Regular!Michael was still in the cage and was offered redemption if he would rid both worlds of AUMichael by taking on his own True Vessel AKA Dean Winchester(including convincing said True Vessel of the importance of this) to do so. The story could practically write itself, IMO.  It's already been more than set up via previous writing, again IMO.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Myrelle

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 1/6/2018 at 3:10 PM, catrox14 said:

I can't think of a good context for it practically, storywise, or emotionally.

Just spit ballin' here, but if it's Jody's line to Claire, maybe Claire is undercover on her own hunt when Jody goes to get her and so Jody doesn't want to say too much in front of 'civilians'?  That would parallel how and why Dean had to use the line in front of Jess.  Not saying it will or won't happen like this: just giving an example of how I think it could happen. 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Just spit ballin' here, but if it's Jody's line to Claire, maybe Claire is undercover on her own hunt when Jody goes to get her and so Jody doesn't want to say too much in front of 'civilians'?  That would parallel how and why Dean had to use the line in front of Jess.  Not saying it will or won't happen like this: just giving an example of how I think it could happen. 

Unless she's infiltrated a werewolf pack or vampires or is friendly with demons if Jody said the name of Sam and Dean in front of any of them  surely they will know who Sam and Dean they would be happy to kill Claire and Jody to keep them from saving  those denim wrapped nightmares. If it's anything else then she could just take Claire aside and tell her privately.

IMO it kind of only works for WS to completely redo that scene frame for frame and contextualize it as Claire and Jody had some falling out and that Clair has left hunting and told Jody to stay away and is hiding her life from someone important to her. And that is perilously close to being a complete ripoff of the original scene which takes us full circle back to the problem I have with using it at all. I will resent it more than seeing it as an homage. JMHO

[bozodegama]

I think we should be prepared for a lot of supernatural lines being co-opted by Wayward sisters.  I'm pretty sure they'll use the "hunting trip" line and I really wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of the Wayward sisiter episode or the pilot if it gets picked up, we will see the girls from behine their car, throw a shotgun in the trunk and say, "we've got work to do."  I think they have to pull as many spn viewers in as possible.  I just hope they make the new show more like Supernatural and less like Riverdale or one of those teen shows on the cw.  Apparently, the president of the CW is not sure viewers will tune in to Wayward Sisters if the boys aren't on and neither am I.  I hope the show is successful and i'll watch it,.  But i'm a little skeptical.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

35 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Unless she's infiltrated a werewolf pack or vampires or is friendly with demons if Jody said the name of Sam and Dean in front of any of them  surely they will know who Sam and Dean they would be happy to kill Claire and Jody to keep them from saving  those denim wrapped nightmares. If it's anything else then she could just take Claire aside and tell her privately.

I was thinking more along the lines that Claire was pretending to be FBI (or something more appropriate to her age - maybe pretending to be a campus security cop or something) and it was in front of witnesses who wouldn't automatically know who Sam and Dean were.  Again, just spit balling - but if Jody came up and said, excuse me, I really need to talk to you and Claire responded that she was busy, in a minute, that would give the opening for Jody to use the line.  But like I said, I'm just giving an example of how I could see it play out.  Not that it will or won't.  If you don't think it would work, that's fine too. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by RulerofallIsurvey

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

I think we should be prepared for a lot of supernatural lines being co-opted by Wayward sisters.  I'm pretty sure they'll use the "hunting trip" line and I really wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end of the Wayward sisiter episode or the pilot if it gets picked up, we will see the girls from behine their car, throw a shotgun in the trunk and say, "we've got work to do."  I think they have to pull as many spn viewers in as possible.  I just hope they make the new show more like Supernatural and less like Riverdale or one of those teen shows on the cw.  Apparently, the president of the CW is not sure viewers will tune in to Wayward Sisters if the boys aren't on and neither am I.  I hope the show is successful and i'll watch it,.  But i'm a little skeptical.  

They need to pull in some SPN viewers but Co opting / homageing dialogue and scenes is not a great way to do it. And if they do too much homageing then it will just seem like Supernatural but gendered swapped. it needs to have its own identity.Creating the world around SPN is one thing, duplicating it won't.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I was thinking more along the lines that Claire was pretending to be FBI (or something more appropriate to her age - maybe pretending to be a campus security cop or something) and it was in front of witnesses who wouldn't automatically know who Sam and Dean were.  Again, just spit balling - but if Jody came up and said, excuse me, I really need to talk to you and Claire responded that she was busy, in a minute, that would give the opening for Jody to use the line.  But like I said, I'm just giving an example of how I could see it play out.  Not that it will or won't.  If you don't think it would work, that's fine too. 

Even then I can't see why Jody wouldn't just wait that minute. If Jody took the time to drive to wherever Claire was, waiting an extra five minutes to speak with her. She could pull her aside after waiting and still say the line. For me, it's all context and significance of the original line being diluted no matter what, it's annoying and I wish they were not doing it.

[gonzosgirrl]

For me, a new show has to have either a) at least one actor who I will watch 'just because', or a premise that seems new, or at least a fresh approach to an old genre. Example: medical dramas = done to death, but The Good Doctor has a new and interesting twist. I watched both Hellcats and The Secret Circle on the CW 'just because' Gale Harold was cast in them, and TSC was about witches/magic, which is a big yes for me. On its face, WS has neither of these things (for me). The possible exception is Briana, who I do enjoy. I have always liked Jody, but if the version we got in Patience is a signal for the direction they are taking her, then no, thanks anyway. I won't say 'never' until the pilot episode(s) have aired, but right now, it doesn't appeal to me at all.

Edited January 8, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

This one is even worse then the last one.  And of course its Dean's whose taken out easily.

[gonzosgirrl]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This one is even worse then the last one.  And of course its Dean's whose taken out easily.

The cheese factor is way over the top. I'm surprised she didn't say "The name is Novak, Claire Novak." Yeesh. At least they took out the 'once' from 'they saved me once'.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The cheese factor is way over the top. I'm surprised she didn't say "The name is Novak, Claire Novak." Yeesh. At least they took out the 'once' from 'they saved me once'.

Why is it so hard for them to come up with decent promos. That was a terrible voice over, terribly written. She doesn't have the voice for that.

And seriously, no one talks that way to other people. They just don't. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there will be a scene of Claire sitting in a hotel room, writing in her journal and it's her reading her own words because that all sounds like something someone is writing to someone else.

It's not even a good "Hello, my name is Oliver Queen" voice over intro.

I really hate the line of "There are men AND women" Can't they just say there are people in the world who kill those monsters called hunters. My name is Claire Novak and I am a hunter and I am going to save Sam and Dean Winchester".  See how easy that was? LOL

Ugh that was SOOO BAD.

[gonzosgirrl]

The narration itself is cheestastic, but delivered by Kathryn/Claire it borders on ridiculous. Neither the actress or the character has the gravitas to make a speech like that anything but laughable, IMO. It sounds like a kid declaring "By the power of Greyskull!!!". Shades of 'kneel before Todd.".

[AwesomO4000]

It definitely lacks that Morgan Freeman gravitas.***

*** As South Park tells us, Morgan Freeman can explain anything or make anything crappy sound good... and whenever he does, he gets a freckle.

Edited January 11, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The narration itself is cheestastic, but delivered by Kathryn/Claire it borders on ridiculous. Neither the actress or the character has the gravitas to make a speech like that anything but laughable, IMO. It sounds like a kid declaring "By the power of Greyskull!!!". Shades of 'kneel before Todd.".

That kid had more gravitas than Claire. LOL

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This one is even worse then the last one.  And of course its Dean's whose taken out easily.

Ugh. You know, they have the premise and the characters, you'd think they could come up with a decent promo. That narration is sooooo bad, I don't even have words for it. And, they're continuing to bank on Kathryn Newton's hot factor and ignoring the other characters. So disingenuous to what they've sold the show as.

24 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

It definitely lacks that Morgan Freeman gravitas.***

*** As South Park tells us, Morgan Freeman can explain anything or make anything crappy sound good... and whenever he does, he gets a freckle.

Hee!!

[Casseiopeia]

I was having trouble clicking on the video so for anyone else who was having issues....

 

 

Now I need to go wash my brain out with bleach....blech!!

[Pondlass1]

I couldn't see the video so thanks.  But now I wish I hadn't.  It's a joke, right?  They're pulling our leg.  

Edited January 12, 2018 by Pondlass1

[gonzosgirrl]

Synopsis for 13x13

Quote

SUPERNATURAL 13.13 “Various & Sundry Villains”: Dean (Jensen Ackles) falls victim to a couple of witches, sisters Jamie (guest star Jordan Clair Robbins) and Jennie Plum (guest star Elise Gatien), who manage to steal a powerful book of spells from the Winchester brothers. When Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean go after the book, they get help from a powerful and surprising ally when Rowena (guest star Ruth Connell), back from the dead, intervenes to assist them. Amanda Tapping directed the episode written by Steve Yockey.

Anyone want to bet Dean 'falls victim' to the witch sisters because he's being a horndog and/or drunk? And he loses the book to them?

I weep for my Dean Winchester, I really do. Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe Andrew Dabb?

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Synopsis for 13x13

Anyone want to bet Dean 'falls victim' to the witch sisters because he's being a horndog and/or drunk? And he loses the book to them?

I weep for my Dean Winchester, I really do. Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe Andrew Dabb?

yup.  That was my first thought as well.  Dean gets to mess up and lose the book because...reasons. 

To bad, Yockey was the last hope but he seems to have drunk the koolaide.

[catrox14]

42 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Synopsis for 13x13

Anyone want to bet Dean 'falls victim' to the witch sisters because he's being a horndog and/or drunk? And he loses the book to them?

I weep for my Dean Winchester, I really do. Have I mentioned lately how much I loathe Andrew Dabb?

Was literally coming here to say that.

And I will be woefully disappointed because Steve Yockey was my last hope for Dean :(. 

[AwesomO4000]

It may not be as bad as it sounds.

And after so many seasons of Sam messing up (usually in worse ways) for... reasons, to me this sounds like a fairly minor thing. Sam himself lost the Book of the Damned previously to Rowena, because Rowena got the better of him. If the writers have to have it happen, I personally am not going to hate Andrew Dabb for spreading the "plot stupid" around a little bit. Sam gets hit with the idiot stick enough in that regard.

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I personally am not going to hate Andrew Dabb for spreading the "plot stupid" around a little bit.

A little bit? Under Dabb Dean is practically the court jester. Despite the bad decisions that one may think that Sam makes in comparison to Dean the writers sure don't shy away from making Dean look like a jackass in comparison to Sam. But YMMV.

Edited January 12, 2018 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

ETA: There was a video of filming that day, that I posted somewhere here in the forum.  Dean has the book and was maybe going to give it to them. Sam draws down on them, Dean runs over and pushes the gun away.