A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

One thing that I've noticed about S6 is the lack of gif-ing that's going on in the fandom.

Choosy mothers choose gifs for the Final Battle!

[Free]

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

What differentiates Season 6 from even the depths of 3B and 4B is the lack of moments.  Forget an enjoyable arc, it is difficult to find enjoyable scenes in the entire season.  On top of that, there were further damaging retcons.  It is only now in the final 6 episodes where the plotline actually has a focus, that being "the final battle".  Of course, we have no idea what "the final battle" actually means, but this season's standards, that's already huge.  

On top of an anti-climatic set up to a final battle that feels more like a rehash of S3a.

[Dianthus]

People like watching stories about...people; especially if those people are likeable/relatable. Plot, plot, plot isn't really about people. Sure, Emma and the gang are running around reacting to things and solving crises, but it's not nearly as satisfying as it could be, because they're not allowed to react to stuff in a relatable way. They're basically just pawns. The action figures almost seem redundant, since that's how A & E treat them anyway.

[tennisgurl]

Would it really be so terrible to have just one villain on this show who is just an asshole? It seems like every major villain we have ever gotten ends up being a person who started out as basically a good person, who ends up becoming evil because they were corrupted by power, they had good intentions that went wrong, or they had something bad happen to them to make them evil. Then they often turn good, and then everything's cool. Its like A&E saw Wicked on Broadway one night, and thought "That's such a cool idea! A bad guy who had good intentions and is misunderstood! Lets do that in our show! Actually, lets do it OVER AND OVER AGAIN!"

The only main villains who don't really fit that are Cruella and Hades, and I thought that made them more interesting as villains. I can understand wanting to write a complex bad guy, but they cant all have the same damn story arcs!

[Inquirer]

31 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Would it really be so terrible to have just one villain on this show who is just an asshole? It seems like every major villain we have ever gotten ends up being a person who started out as basically a good person, who ends up becoming evil because they were corrupted by power, they had good intentions that went wrong, or they had something bad happen to them to make them evil. Then they often turn good, and then everything's cool. Its like A&E saw Wicked on Broadway one night, and thought "That's such a cool idea! A bad guy who had good intentions and is misunderstood! Lets do that in our show! Actually, lets do it OVER AND OVER AGAIN!"

The only main villains who don't really fit that are Cruella and Hades, and I thought that made them more interesting as villains. I can understand wanting to write a complex bad guy, but they cant all have the same damn story arcs!

I think that Pan and Jafar worked well too because starting off good and going evil/corrupted with power was never used to redeem them or even remotely excuse them or make the viewer feel sorry for them in the present.  Their sad backgrounds explain why they became so despicable, but the fact that they are now despicable is always emphasized and they end their runs as the villains that they are.  Personally, that's the best happy medium between what you're talking about.  It's frustrated to have the kind of villain you're talking about all the time, but having too many villains who are "just assholes" doesn't work either since then they come off as lame, one-dimensional baddies just there to cause conflict and angst for the heroes.

Think of it this way: cut all tragic backstory and sympathetic qualities from Gideon, and make him "just an asshole".  Does that make him any more entertaining and interesting, or the villainous actions he undertakes to create angst between Emma and Hook any better written?  No, it does not.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Inquirer

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I don't. At this point we have over-dosed on villains. This show is so obsessed with villains and delving into their psyches that it ignores the other characters. We never get any meaningful scenes with Emma and her parents or Emma and Hook, everything seems to happen off screen and even if they're together all they do is talk about the latest villain and how they're going to defeat them. I don't see how A&E don't understand how stale the formula is and how frustrated the viewers are with it. 

I actually don't mind the "defeat and repeat" formula, but the focus always goes all over the place. Stopping the villain should not be the sole driving conflict. I won't go into positive vs. negative goals because that's been talked about already in detail, but the issue connects to the overdone villains. Look at 6B. There is no overall plot that affects all the characters until the Black Fairy shows up. Other than Rumple and Belle, no one is emotionally invested in that drama outside of being scared she might started killing people they love. That danger is generic and has been in place for every single Big Bad there ever has been on the show. It's not the Black Fairy that matters, but [insert murderous villain here]. 

If it's the villain that drives the plot just by existing, than naturally more time is devoted to let them do just that. Their backstory matters more because they are the only thing holding the arc together. It's that two-dimensional thinking in a three-dimesionally formatted show that creates the problem.

[jhlipton]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Lets do that in our show! Actually, lets do it OVER AND OVER AGAIN!"

And over and over some more.

The best shows don't have "heroes" and "villains" -- they have "more sympathetic but flawed" characters and "less sympathetic but even more flawed" characters.  One of the best shows on right now is The Expanse and while Errinwright and Mao are far from sympathetic, the major antagonist isn't a person, but a thing (the proto-virusmolecule).  Conflict comes from people (and planets) having different agendas that aren't Eeeeeeeeeeeeevil, just mutually unattainable.

[Shanna Marie]

I was thinking about Snow talking about how the town needs this wedding to give them hope, and I have to wonder why. How long has it been since there was a villain who actually affected the town beyond just the main people?

The Queens of Darkness weren't any kind of threat to the town, though I guess there was that AU experience. Dark Emma didn't do anything to anyone other than one of the dwarfs, Merida, and Zelena. The guest Dark Ones only marked a few of the regulars, and nothing actually happened to them. I doubt anyone in town was even aware Hades was around. The Evil Queen only targeted the Charmings. Otherwise, all she did in town was patronize local businesses. The Black Fairy hasn't really done anything to anyone.

So, why does the town need hope? And will they really care about Emma's wedding? How many people actually know Emma all that well? She was gone for 2A and 3A, was apart from them for the missing year, then was gone in Camelot, with being all dark and aloof, then was gone to the Underworld. It's not like she's been hanging out and making friends. Hook came to town later, was gone during 3A, was separated from everyone else during the missing year, then was in Camelot and then was dead. Even if the town needed hope, would the wedding of two people they sort of kind of have seen around town really do the trick?

[Camera One]

This is the same town that couldn't care less Snowing isn't ruling them.  

I think the Evil Queen did force everyone in town to come watch Snowing's heart be ripped out.  Even if they didn't do anything, I'd imagine you would be wary walking around if the EQ or The Black Fairy was around town.

The last villain that scared people... Ice Monster by Elsa?  Shattered Sight Curse with Ingrid?  The entire population of Storybrooke disappeared in the 4B finale, so presumably, Isaac put them all inside his book, so there's that.  And considering how many Dark Ones there were, it makes no sense that only our main characters were marked for death.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

35 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Even if the town needed hope, would the wedding of two people they sort of kind of have seen around town really do the trick?

But it's the Savior and.... that guy...  ya know, the one with the cool ship in the harbor

[Arnella]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:46 PM, Shanna Marie said:

The Evil Queen only targeted the Charmings. Otherwise, all she did in town was patronize local businesses.

LOL!  But it was EVVVILLLL shopping!

[KingOfHearts]

The Evil Queen only targeted the Charmings. Otherwise, all she did in town was patronize local businesses.

Reminds me of when Glory bought something in Giles' shop, in front of all the heroes. She used her credit card and walked out, the heroes not knowing she was the hellgod. Even villains have to shop.

[Camera One]

Why is it the "final" battle?  Everything is going to be unicorn kisses and unicorn stickers after this?  If so, why would there be a Season 7?  

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why is it the "final" battle?  Everything is going to be unicorn kisses and unicorn stickers after this?  If so, why would there be a Season 7?  

I just want to say, prophecies make for poor plot devices. The final battle is all about shoving characters into certain roles just to fulfill a fantasy. Want to see Emma fight the Black Fairy to the death? Instead of giving her the motivation to, let's force her to using destiny. Yeah, that sounds organic.

Edited May 4, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

It gets even better with this show though because if they decide they don't like the prophecy, they create a random item that can sever a character from that prophecy. So when there's a prophecy that all Saviours must die and they want to have some Saviours meet or have another regular long lived character as a surprise Saviour, they just bring out the Prophecy Killing Shears of Destiny and suddenly the prophecy only applies to one character. And of course, it would be completely wrong for that character to use the shears because reasons (aka the plot requires it to be so) .

[Camera One]

34 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

It gets even better with this show though because if they decide they don't like the prophecy, they create a random item that can sever a character from that prophecy. So when there's a prophecy that all Saviours must die and they want to have some Saviours meet or have another regular long lived character as a surprise Saviour, they just bring out the Prophecy Killing Shears of Destiny and suddenly the prophecy only applies to one character. And of course, it would be completely wrong for that character to use the shears because reasons (aka the plot requires it to be so) .

The plot possibilities are endless.  Season 7, Fiona was actually a Savior!  Season 8, Dorothy was a Savior!  Season 9, Zelena was a Savior!  Wasn't Anna the Savior of Arendelle?  Better add that in.  Merlin was probably a Savior too.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Olivia Y]

3 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

It gets even better with this show though because if they decide they don't like the prophecy, they create a random item that can sever a character from that prophecy.

When Tiger Lily went to the drawer to get out the shearers I just had to laugh. Here's this amazingly unbelievably powerful tool that can alter destinies and change the course of history and it's just...sitting in a drawer, no safeguard of any kind, and anyone will know how to use it. She may as well be fetching her sewing kit to repair a button it was that mundane. 

[Arnella]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

The plot possibilities are endless.  Season 7, Fiona was actually a Savior!  Season 8, Dorothy was a Savior!  Season 9, Zelena was a Savior!  Wasn't Anna the Savior of Arendelle?  Better add that in.  Merlin was probably a Savior too.

Next episode of Oprah Winfrey:

"You're a savior!  You're a savior!  YOU'RE ALL SAVIORS!!!!"

[Camera One]

The more I think about the retcon in "The Black Fairy", the less it makes sense.

So this retcon means Blue would have known about the "Savior would die" clause long before the visions Emma had.  

Why would The Black Fairy's "wand" be so powerful?  Didn't she just steal Tiger Lily's?

Why did Blue need Belle to save the baby in Changeling?  Look at the dialogue:

BLUE: Rumple is trying to use [the baby] to lure [The Black Fairy]
BELLE: But why?  What could possibly be so important that he'd want from her?
BLUE: I wish I knew.  But right now, you just need to get get free so that you can save that child.
BELLE: What?  Me?  But I don't have magic.
BLUE: Well, that's precisely why it has to be you.

Huh?  

Edited May 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Arnella said:

"You're a savior!  You're a savior!  YOU'RE ALL SAVIORS!!!!"

As much as they steal from Buffy, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled something that made the solution be turning all the good guys into Saviors so they can fight the Final Battle together and dilute the dying to each one getting a minor scratch -- especially since that's basically how they resolved the sleeping curse.

At any rate, for a Final Battle worthy of capital letters, this seems awfully weak and anticlimactic:

• For one thing, shouldn't anything "Final" be, you know, final? At the very least, it should thoroughly alter the status quo, regardless of outcome. When C.S. Lewis wrote a "last" battle, it was basically Armageddon for his world. The stakes should be world-altering stuff -- Storybrooke changed to a different town or kind of town, Storybrooke destroyed and the people left in the World Without Magic without their weird little enclave, Storybrooke moved to a different world, Storybrooke destroyed and the people sent to another world/moved back home. If you can fight the "Final Battle" and then go, "So, celebrate with dinner at Granny's?" it's not much of a Final Battle, and there are no indications that there's anything all that epic at stake.
• Speaking of stakes, what are they? So far, it seems like only Emma is potentially affected, and then an indirect effect on her loved ones who'll miss her, but most of the town might not even know this is going on. What happens if Emma loses? What does the Black Fairy get if she wins? So far, the only reason given that this is even taking place is Because Prophecy, but generally, a prophecy predicts that there will be a conflict of some sort. The conflict doesn't happen just because of the prophecy. And shouldn't a Final Battle being predicted hundreds of years ago, and being big enough to be a prophecy, involve more than a couple of people in a small town in Maine?
• And speaking of big, it seems weird for the Final Battle that's been mentioned since season one to be this random, out-of-the-blue encounter with a character we only just met who hasn't actually done much that's all that awful and who hasn't had that much effect on the lives of the characters. Yeah, she created the Dark Curse, but it was Regina who cast it. Shouldn't the Final Battle involve maybe all the villains teaming up, or at least the villain who defeated the other villains? Looking at writing theory/screenwriting structure, the big, climactic conflict of a story should really represent two warring world views, and the outcome will show which one is right. Good vs. evil is too broad and generic. Ditto "dark magic" vs. "light magic." What does the Black Fairy vs. Emma represent? Selfishness vs. Selflessness? I feel like we need a lot more setup here, like we'd learn that the Black Fairy had been the one pulling the strings behind everything all along -- really, more like the revelation in season one about Rumple and him manipulating the curse to be cast. But unless they pull something out of their nether regions in the season finale, I doubt we'll learn that Fiona not only severed Rumple's Savior destiny, she also sent the pixie dust to Malcolm so he could get to Neverland and become Pan, then started the ogre wars so that Bae would be drafted and Rumple would be forced to take action, then sent the Dark One to tempt Rumple into killing him and becoming the Dark One himself, then was impersonating Blue to give Bae the bean to travel between worlds so that Rumple would then manipulate Regina into casting the Dark Curse, and meanwhile sapping magic from Neverland so that Pan would take Henry, and giving Ingrid ice magic so she'd be forced to look for her magical family, and setting up Cora, and so forth, and so forth.

Instead, it's all coming across like, "Well, um, there's this prophecy that says we're going to fight, so I guess we will."

[KingOfHearts]

There's not even a point to Fiona being a fairy, other than to fill the "Black Fairy" position. Her backstory had little to do with fairy lore. She could easily just be the crazy lady who learned magic. 

[jhlipton]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:44 AM, Shanna Marie said:

As much as they steal from Buffy, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled something that made the solution be turning all the good guys into Saviors so they can fight the Final Battle together and dilute the dying to each one getting a minor scratch -- especially since that's basically how they resolved the sleeping curse.

And how they beat the Wraith.

[KingOfHearts]

Watching 6A is like eating a rice cake. You know it's something, but it still tastes like you're eating nothing. It's as if it's not even there. You could describe it as, "The Evil Queen running errands in Storybrooke."

Quote

Was just about to say the same thing, @KITTICUP. Don't bother binge-watching this season because most of the episodes are super random and don't even matter in the grand scheme of things. If anything, you could start at Charming's centric "Murder Most Foul" and do a mini binge of the second half of the season and skip most of the flashbacks. 

The only relevant episodes to watch: "Changelings", "Mother's Little Helper", and "The Black Fairy". You don't need anything else to understand what's going on.

Edited May 6, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

I actually don't think the "younger character comes back aged up and dark" is a terrible idea. But a random Rumpbelle baby? Really? I've actually wanted to see Henry leave and return as a dark mage adult, reminiscent of his adoptive mom and grandfather. It makes more sense than Gidiot. If he was trapped in another realm for years and had given up hope, turning to the magic he once wanted to destroy would be poetic irony. He doesn't even have to be evil, just jaded. Make him and the Black Fairy got at it for years. Since Henry is her great-grandson, that Stiltskin dynamic would still be there.

Edited May 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

In honor of what's likely going to be the last episode of this show in its current form, I'd like to do a Charming Family focused rewatch before Sunday. Obviously I don't have a lot of time, so I'm thinking at the very least, I'll watch the Pilot, Snow Falls, A Land Without Magic, Broken, Going Home, and Snow Drifts/There's No Place Like Home. Snow and Emma had some good scenes in 2A and I loved watching Charming fight to get them back, so maybe I'll add some of those in (also, bonus!Hook). Sadly, besides certain scenes throughout the later seasons, I can't really think of another strong Charming Family focused episode to watch. Maybe Shattered Sight? For Charming and Emma, I suppose White Out is pretty good even though they're barely together in it, but at least I'll see one of my favorite guest characters, Elsa. Maybe I'll watch Heartless even though the long-haired, non-flashback Regina is in it. How sad that I can't think of more. 

Anyone have any suggestions for other strong Charming Family episodes?

If I have time, I'll probably throw in Good Form and NYC Serenade for my CS loving heart. Maybe The Other Shoe too. They have good scenes in some other episodes, of course, but the point of this isn't really to get bogged down in the plot and angst that seemed to encompass later CS and Charming Family scenes. I really don't know if anything can top the hope I felt at the end of Season 1 when Emma kissed Henry and Snow and Charming found each other again. 

Even though they're my favorite family on television, I didn't really think I'd be this sad to see the Charming Family potentially leave my screen for good in a few days. I think I'm mostly sad over the wasted potential. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by InsertWordHere

[RadioGirl27]

43 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

I think I'm mostly sad over the wasted potential. 

This perfectly summarizes everything about this show. So much wasted potencial. 

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, InsertWordHere said:

Even though they're my favorite family on television, I didn't really think I'd be this sad to see the Charming Family potentially leave my screen for good in a few days. I think I'm mostly sad over the wasted potential. 

It's heartbreaking... as you pointed out, there really has been nothing substantial for the core Charming family of Emma, Snow and Charming since 2A.  Yet it's STILL sad to see them officially exit the canvas even though they're a pale shell of who they were in Season 1-2.  Emma/Charming did continue to have a few more moments, but even that stopped by 4B-ish.  We tune in week after week, hoping and hoping.  The ones without the happy ending are the viewers who tune in for the Charmings.

[InsertWordHere]

15 minutes ago, Camera One said:

We tune in week after week, hoping and hoping.  The ones without the happy ending are the viewers who tune in for the Charmings.

The real Dark Curse. 

[KAOS Agent]

Parts of 3A had Charming family stuff. There was at least a glimmer anyway. I remember hoping they'd deal with some of their issues. It's obvious the writers know that they were there or they wouldn't have had Ingrid enumerate them in 4A. Sadly, Emma has just accepted that she deserved it all because heroes and prophecy. Forever bitter.

[daxx]

4 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Anyone have any suggestions for other strong Charming Family episodes?

Heart of the truest believer and Lost Girl. I'll throw in Talllahasee since that is where I'm at in my season 2 rewatch.

[SamofSherwood]

Hi Oncers, new here, so I was thinking, with the future of the show now uncertain with Jennifer's departure, don't you think it would be fun for Colin to have his own show? The tales of the infamous Captain Hook pre-Storybrooke, I think that could be a lot of fun! 
I've created a petition for ABC, Colin has thousands, probably millions of fans out there, we just need to reach them. 
I wish nothing but the best for Jennifer but it seems unfair to me his fate is so tied with her departure, he is still so keen about his character & he said at SDCC he loves playing the old bad boy Hook so, let's help him get what he wants. 
So many people are saying they won't watch a show without Emma & that probably means cancellation & the character of Killlian Jones lost to TV history & he is just too good for that. 
If ABC are watching for fan reaction to Jennifer's news then I'd say this is not hopeful. 
Sign my petition, let's give Colin his own show, they already have the sets, they can bring back young Baelfire, Smee, Adam Croasdell said it sounded cool, Peter Pan (loved Robbie Kay) ~ there's Tiger Lily now. 
What do you think? want to help me out? C'mon Oncers, let's rally behind our Captain! 
Killian is so much more then just Emma's love interest. 

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disne ... s-own-show 

Sam

[Rumsy4]

Your link doesn't work.

Sounds interesting, though I'm not sure if abc will bite. Besides, with A&E at the helm, it is probably not a good idea. It will an endless stream of Hook betraying people and angsting over it. The ship has sailed on Neverbacks, IMO. If Colin is eaten up by an abc sitcom, that might be more fun.

[superloislane]

5 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

For Charming and Emma, I suppose White Out is pretty good even though they're barely together in it, but at least I'll see one of my favorite guest characters, Elsa.

Rocky Road is one of my favourites from 4a and has quite a bit of Charming/Emma in it. It also has Hook and Elsa being fun together and what I thought would be the start of some good Emma and Will scenes. Plus it has the big Captain Swan kiss at the end. 

[Spartan Girl]

You know even though there are plenty of pairings on this show that the writers ruined in some way or another, Snow and Charming weren't one of them. True they got off to a bad start in season one because of the curse and what not, but once that was over with, they had a pretty good relationship since then. Barely any of the usual drama and angst that happens with other TV couples. Quite refreshing!

[Souris]

30 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

You know even though there are plenty of pairings on this show that the writers ruined in some way or another, Snow and Charming weren't one of them. True they got off to a bad start in season one because of the curse and what not, but once that was over with, they had a pretty good relationship since then. Barely any of the usual drama and angst that happens with other TV couples. Quite refreshing!

That's because the writers didn't care enough about them to give them a storyline, let alone any interpersonal drama!

[Spartan Girl]

True. But with all the other dysfunctional couples on the show, it was nice to have at least one couple with a healthy relationship.

[Shanna Marie]

On 5/10/2017 at 0:20 AM, InsertWordHere said:

In honor of what's likely going to be the last episode of this show in its current form, I'd like to do a Charming Family focused rewatch before Sunday.

I'll be doing my rewatching this summer as part of preparation for a writing project (and because I'm super-busy right now, so can't fit it in before this weekend). But in thinking about this, with the talk about the Charming Family story being wrapped up, what would you consider to be the Charming Family story arc, and what is its resolution?

If it's the breaking of the curse, getting their memories back, and being reunited with each other and with Emma, that happened at the end of season one. If it was dealing with the aftermath of all that and building a relationship with their daughter, I guess you could kind of squint and imagine that the wedding wrapped that up, showing that she'd found the kind of love they had and was going to be okay, except they skipped over a lot of steps in between. They never really addressed what Snow and David did to Emma and how it affected her, just sweeping it aside and acting like it was no big deal, so then they had to contrive new conflicts like fearing her magic, the eggnapping evilectomy, or the missed chance to save her when she was a child in order to have issues, and then those were swept aside and solved with a hug. That makes looking at the wedding as the resolution of any kind of family story rather dissatisfying. Coming to some kind of reconciliation with Regina would have made a good arc, except any actual reconciliation moment must have happened offscreen. What she did to them was huge, and yet there was no process toward reconciling them. The story jumped straight from her trying to kill them after having spent decades trying to destroy them to her being part of the family. It was "resolved" before the halfway point in the series/arc, so this ending doesn't really seem like a natural ending point for the Charmings. There's been nothing specific that they've wanted, have been striving for, and didn't have until now. Really, there hasn't been any kind of story for the family or the characters, so it's hard to see any natural ending point that isn't all about contracts.

Even individually rather than as a family, they talked about Snow being Snow again, but then she was doing Mary Margaret stuff and acting like that was her real passion. They seem to have forgotten that she's a princess and actually the rightful ruler of their kingdom, that she and Charming also took over George's kingdom and were ruling a larger united kingdom after Regina's defeat (and yet needed a ship to get to Regina's castle in the kingdom they were also ruling?), so there's been no arc about her coming into her own as a good ruler, after all those flashbacks about her as a child/teen learning to be a good ruler. They skipped over all the transition between farmboy and prince for David, so there's been no arc about him finding his place. He even just fell into his current career, not that we see him doing much of it. There's been no sense of what he wants and him trying to get it.

So, with both of them and with them as a couple and as part of a family, it's more like they're just disappearing because they serve no point in the story than like they've had any kind of story that's been resolved.

[Camera One]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Even individually rather than as a family, they talked about Snow being Snow again, but then she was doing Mary Margaret stuff and acting like that was her real passion. They seem to have forgotten that she's a princess and actually the rightful ruler of their kingdom, that she and Charming also took over George's kingdom and were ruling a larger united kingdom after Regina's defeat (and yet needed a ship to get to Regina's castle in the kingdom they were also ruling?), so there's been no arc about her coming into her own as a good ruler, after all those flashbacks about her as a child/teen learning to be a good ruler. They skipped over all the transition between farmboy and prince for David, so there's been no arc about him finding his place. He even just fell into his current career, not that we see him doing much of it. There's been no sense of what he wants and him trying to get it.

Now, now, now.  Don't forget we still have the season finale to explore all that.

[Camera One]

20 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Originally, Snow was supposed to go in the wardrobe while pregnant with Emma and go find cursed Charming. I always thought it would be interesting if this happened and Charming and Snow were reunited with her aging 28 years while he did not.

Taking this from the dread thread.  

I always thought that the show would, in its final season, do an episode showing that alternate reality, where middle-aged Snow and Emma together come to Storybrooke to break the Curse.  This is the type of thing that I feel we're being deprived of, by not having a proper final season.  But then again, we DID get the "What if Emma grew up in the Enchanted Forest and the Curse never happened" and it became that horrible Wish Realm where Emma had zero courage and Snowing were idiotic and it was all about getting Robin Hood back.  So it's not like these Writers would have done anything good with it, but still, so much we COULD have seen but never will.  

The other thing I thought might happen was a "Lost"-type final season where we would have flashsideways of how all the supporting characters' from Season 1's lives would have gone if the Curse hadn't happened.  So we would revisit Red's story one last time, Grumpy/Nova, Aurora/Philip, etc.  

Edited May 12, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

6 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Unless you mean a storyline where Zelena forced him to use Neal for the curse? Yes, that would have been fantastic. Although I think being forced to kill his own son with his own hands would be something he could never let go (when they got to 4B).

 

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

This was my pet theory for 3B. Too bad we got the dreck we did instead. 

I wonder if that would have made it harder to bring Zelena back to be redeemed.  Probably not, I guess.  At the end of the day, the Writers just wanted Neal gone.  It's not like Rumple has thought about it since.  When he talks about Baelfire, I don't think he's ever referring to Neal.

[KingOfHearts]

Zelena forcing Rumple to kill Neal would have made so much more sense in the grand scheme of things. It would have rendered her as a sadistic murderer, and there would be an actual price for the second curse. Of course, she would need a reason for going to Storybrooke, but that's easily fixable. The writers probably went the contrived route in order to give Neal a "heroic" sendoff and to make the curse caster (gasp) Snow White. If Zelena cast the curse, it would be too predictable for A&E's "gotta keep em' guessing" strategy. 

We could spend weeks just discussing the hundreds of better paths 3B could have taken. 

[KAOS Agent]

Neal was too strong of a leash on Rumpel. Belle was much easier to put to sleep or otherwise deceive until the next time she could pretend his good heart was totally there and he wouldn't screw everyone over again. One slip and Neal would've noped out of there. It's hard to have Woobie!Rumpel with Neal and his realistic sensibilities around. Rumpel essentially denied Neal after his death. Bae was his son. Neal was the product of his failure and we can't have any memories around that that human existed.

It's ridiculous how little they cared about that relationship since Rumpel getting to Bae was the entire reason for the curse. Having Zelena force Rumpel to kill Bae to cast the curse would have been an excellent twist and a neat flip on how the original curse was cast. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Having Zelena force Rumpel to kill Bae to cast the curse would have been an excellent twist and a neat flip on how the original curse was cast.

It would have given Rumple a real consequence for creating (*ahem* borrowing) the curse. It would be really awesome if the curse meant to reunite him with his son ended up separating them forever. It's delicious irony you'd expect from a fairy tale. If Henry had never gotten his memories back, then that would have doubled it. Regina used the curse to start a new life for herself, and her son always represented that. There just needed to be consequences, negative or positive, for each of the characters. After all, it was the biggest reset the show has had to date.

Edited May 14, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Of course, she would need a reason for going to Storybrooke

Zelena always wanted to be the one to cast the Dark Curse. She was so jealous Rumple picked Regina instead.  Forcing Rumple to cast his own Dark Curse would've been delicious irony. It would even serve to explain why Rumple backslid so fast and so hard. 

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Zelena forcing Rumple to kill Neal would have made so much more sense in the grand scheme of things. It would have rendered her as a sadistic murderer, and there would be an actual price for the second curse. Of course, she would need a reason for going to Storybrooke, but that's easily fixable. The writers probably went the contrived route in order to give Neal a "heroic" sendoff and to make the curse caster (gasp) Snow White. If Zelena cast the curse, it would be too predictable for A&E's "gotta keep em' guessing" strategy. 

We could spend weeks just discussing the hundreds of better paths 3B could have taken. 

I think Zelena using Rumpel and Neal to cast the Curse would've been perfect, but I never minded what actually happened either? I always thought it was rather--what would be the right word?? lol--interesting/sweet that the Charmings were sharing half of one heart and that they made a sacrifice to get back to Emma and Henry.

But I already thought Zelena was a murderous psycho in 3B. I guess that's also the reason the 4B twist didn't feel out of nowhere to me either, considering the rapey-stalkery vibes between Zelena and Rumpel in the Storybrooke part of 3B. Well, everything about villain Zelena read crazy stalker. (I think it's a bit funny her True Love ended up being a guy with similar stalkery vibes directed at her...)

[Kktjones]

Given the season is over tonight, I thought I’d post my Top 10 moments from Season 6. Yes, it’s heavily Captain Swan, but I did find it interesting that I couldn’t find 10 moments of theirs that I really loved. After I eliminated any that took place while they were lying/keeping secrets, there weren’t all that many left. So here’s my list and I don’t anticipate it changing unless there is some sort of “true love across realms” moment or the Emma & Hook sheriff/deputy moment in the bug is really awesome…

1.     Emma & Hook get interrupted by a dirigible

2.     Emma says she “would have done the exact same thing”

3.     Everyone reacts to Regina & Rumple’s “chemistry”

4.     Story time with Captain Hook

5.     Snow & Charming communicate despite the curse

6.     Charming & Hook team up on potions/Bond in the jail (tie)

7.     Emma saves Hook from Neverland and he proposes “the right way”

8.     Emma & Hook make pancakes

9.     Zelena runs down the Black Fairy

10. Emma & Hook celebrate their Happy Beginning with their family & friends

[Camera One]

The planning for 6B was atrocious for a "final arc".  

Even the Black Fairy seemed to have no freak'in idea what The Final Battle entailed, until she decoded Henry's gibberish.

Speaking of which, what happened to this:

Isaac: His Author powers are taking over. He thinks he controls them, but he doesn't. They are more powerful than you know.
Regina: Well, what's going to happen to him?
Isaac: Those trances they'll become more frequent, more intense. He might even end up in a cell right next to me. 

--

Maybe Older Henry in Season 7 will experience hand tremors and there will be a prophesy that he will die.  

[AudienceofOne]

53 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The planning for 6B was atrocious for a "final arc".  

Even the Black Fairy seemed to have no freak'in idea what The Final Battle entailed, until she decoded Henry's gibberish.

Actually I thought that Henry's note was not about the Final Battle at all but was about [insert whatever the season I'm pretending won't exist will be about].

I kept waiting for somebody to find the note at the end and go, "ZOMG! We're still in danger from...."

But it's possible I missed something.

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

Actually I thought that Henry's note was not about the Final Battle at all but was about [insert whatever the season I'm pretending won't exist will be about].

I kept waiting for somebody to find the note at the end and go, "ZOMG! We're still in danger from...."

But it's possible I missed something.

This is the dialogue where it was explained, I think.

Black Fairy: You may think that you can stop me, but that doesn't mean the Final Battle is over. After all, I'm not the one who's going to kill the Savior. That's what I learned from the runes. Darkness can't snuff out the light. It's not strong enough. Only light can snuff out light.

Rumple: Gideon. 

[TheGreenKnight]

I'm not confident enough to make a list, but the very few things I liked about S6 were Hyde, Hyde-Jekyll's backstory episode, the Snow-Charming curse where one had to sleep while the other was awake, the Evil Queen realizing the person she hated most was herself, the Black Fairy's actress, Zelena running over the Black Fairy, and the musical episode. I was bored out of my mind for the majority of this season.