S02.E03: Robin

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Sam gets a new friend.

[Adultosaurus]

I said I was out - then saw Henry Thomas in the preview.  Swoon - right back in!

[scrb]

Ok this guy may be better looking.

But how was  he not more annoying than the guy last week?  The whole thing about Red Roof Inn was ridiculous.

Sam mocked the other guy for being too sensitive, questioned his manhood several times.

Is she going to continue with this guy?  Well she left her home and daughters as fast as she could for this weekend.

[Adultosaurus]

3 hours ago, scrb said:

Ok this guy may be better looking.

But how was  he not more annoying than the guy last week?  The whole thing about Red Roof Inn was ridiculous.

Sam mocked the other guy for being too sensitive, questioned his manhood several times.

Is she going to continue with this guy?  Well she left her home and daughters as fast as she could for this weekend.

Just want to put this here if you don't know - this guy is Elliot from ET.  I won't forgive this show if they hurt him :)

3 hours ago, scrb said:

Ok this guy may be better looking.

But how was  he not more annoying than the guy last week?  The whole thing about Red Roof Inn was ridiculous.

Sam mocked the other guy for being too sensitive, questioned his manhood several times.

Is she going to continue with this guy?  Well she left her home and daughters as fast as she could for this weekend.

RedRoof Inn?  Where'd that come from?  It was the Redwood Inn.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Adultosaurus

[TVForever]

10 hours ago, Adultosaurus said:

I said I was out - then saw Henry Thomas in the preview.  Swoon - right back in!

I spent so much time trying to figure out where I had seen him before. Holy cow, now I feel ancient! He has gray in his beard!

Also, are we going to be subjected to Sam on the toilet regularly now?

Edited September 29, 2017 by TVForever

[DoubleUTeeEff]

5 hours ago, Adultosaurus said:

Just want to put this here if you don't know - this guy is Elliot from ET.  I won't forgive this show if they hurt him :)

Whoa! Thanks for the info.

45 minutes ago, TVForever said:

Also, are we going to be subjected to Sam on the toilet regularly now?

I took them to be metaphors. She had to plunge her toilet, like she had to get rid of the turd that was Arturo. This time she felt the relief of finally peeing, like she had to deal with Robin's anger, silent treatment and finally the relief of his apology.

[Adultosaurus]

3 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Whoa! Thanks for the info.

I took them to be metaphors. She had to plunge her toilet, like she had to get rid of the turd that was Arturo. This time she felt the relief of finally peeing, like she had to deal with Robin's anger, silent treatment and finally the relief of his apology.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing - I hadn't though of it that way, was just having flashbacks of Hannah on Girls and how often we had to go pee with her.

[BeckyThatcher]

This was an usually gentle episode. I enjoyed the unfolding path of early dating with its meandering yet testing " do you get me?" conversations, mistakes, and reveals.  I liked the conflict of their individual perceptions regarding two hotel rooms. 

Bolting out of her home filled with children, many moms have that unacted -upon - fantasy (Calgon, take me away!) so it was jolting to see it actually happen on a show. Sam must have turned her ringer off. The silence that embraced their trip made it seem otherworldly.

 

Henry Thomas. Wow.

[Jodithgrace]

Where was Duke when Sam took off for the weekend? Last episode was all about finding various sitters for the kids..this week she's out the door with hardly any arrangements at all. Strange.

I watched one episode of this last season because i heard how great it was. i had no urge to watch a second episode. Now, a friend emailed me, saying that I had to watch this wonderful show, so I've watched these three episodes. I still have no urge to watch more.  But unlike Sam, who slept 10+ times with a guy she couldn't stand, I will bail out if I still feel this way after next week. 

At least now i know why Robin looked so familiar. 

[bilgistic]

I figure the kids can't get into a whole lot of trouble when their grandmother lives across the street. She's always in everyone's business.

[For Cereals]

21 hours ago, BeckyThatcher said:

Henry Thomas. Wow.

I. Feel. So. Old.  Thank you show.  How does that happen?

Loved her speeding up as she passed her mother.

[scrb]

Maybe if Robin stays on for a few more episodes, Sam could do an ET imitation (since she is a professional voice actor) and reach out with her finger to touch him.

[butterbody]

I'm still only watching this show because the reviews are making me feel like I have to. 

I still don't like it. I still don't understand why she's so mean to her mom. Her daughter's are assholes but poor Phyllis is just trying to bring her a plant and she barrels past her.

I also thought it was interesting that Robin is traditionally (mostly, usually, imo) a female name, while the females on this show are Sam, Frankie, Duke, etc. Wonder if that was intentional or just this new weed I got.

[Jeanne222]

I just found this show this second season.  

I think Sam acts on all the desires other single parent women would like to do!

I don't this k grandma keeps a watchful eye on the girls.  Didn't Sam come home to quite a mess after her last getaway.

How old is the oldest girl?  They just threw that mother that went on vacation to Germany in jail for leaving four kids home alone!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

How old is the oldest girl?

She's 16.

[TVbitch]

I can't get into this show. It comes off like it wants to be "real" and show the small moments and frustrations of an average middle aged life, but (except for a couples scenes here and there) Sam does not act like any middle aged woman I know. Just like Louie didn't really act like any middle aged man I know.  

[pasdetrois]

I liked this episode better than the first two. Very funny to watch Sam escape her whiny spoiled brats. I have memories of taking a new mother to the beach while her husband watched a toddler and infant, and how my friend didn't even look back - just cranked the radio up to max and bounced all the way there.

I didn't catch the name of who would look after them, but she did name someone. Maybe it was her mother.

It was wonderful to see a grown-up Elliott. Very cute.

[Nessie]

I thought this was much better than the first two eps.  I found it interesting that she didn't sleep with this guy that she actually liked, and went so far as getting separate hotel rooms, after spending 3 weeks sleeping with a guy she didn't like.  Maybe she actually learned a lesson from that.  But my God...how presumptuous of Robin to not even offer to get her her own room.

THAT was Henry Thomas?  Damn...I feel very old now...

This episode almost made me like Sam again, and bought this show another week with me.

[xwordfanatik]

On 10/1/2017 at 11:51 AM, butterbody said:

I'm still only watching this show because the reviews are making me feel like I have to. 

I still don't like it. I still don't understand why she's so mean to her mom. Her daughter's are assholes but poor Phyllis is just trying to bring her a plant and she barrels past her.

I also thought it was interesting that Robin is traditionally (mostly, usually, imo) a female name, while the females on this show are Sam, Frankie, Duke, etc. Wonder if that was intentional or just this new weed I got.

I enjoy the show, and your last comment didn't occur to me, but it is interesting.  I have known two men named Robin, and believe it or not, one was named Robin Hood!  I like the (usual) female spelling Robyn better, for girls.  Many names (Aubrey, Beverly, to name two) were usually male, but now are more female.  

I myself have an either/or name, and I used to hate it.  A former supervisor told me he thought it was a classy name, and I started liking it more.  I went with a traditionally female name for my daughter, though.  

Sam, Max, and Frankie are OK IMO, but Duke?  Not so much.  I think of John Wayne, or a large dog, when I hear it.

[Nessie]

50 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I enjoy the show, and your last comment didn't occur to me, but it is interesting.  I have known two men named Robin, and believe it or not, one was named Robin Hood!  I like the (usual) female spelling Robyn better, for girls.  Many names (Aubrey, Beverly, to name two) were usually male, but now are more female.  

I myself have an either/or name, and I used to hate it.  A former supervisor told me he thought it was a classy name, and I started liking it more.  I went with a traditionally female name for my daughter, though.  

Sam, Max, and Frankie are OK IMO, but Duke?  Not so much.  I think of John Wayne, or a large dog, when I hear it.

Ashley, Shirley, and Whitney are 3 more...I think you probably hear these names on men more in the South then anywhere else these days.

It is interesting that all the females in Sam's family have names, or at least nicknames, that are traditionally masculine.  Even Sam's mom is called "Phil".  I agree about Duke.  I can't even think what that might be a nickname for, if it's a nickname. 

[Kelly]

I liked this episode...but I have to say that I thought Sam went about the whole hotel thing rather weirdly.  Why not talk about this BEFORE you set off together?  And of course, HE was weird with his need to expose these 'surprises' to her on the trip.

I hadn't realized that the actor was the actor that played Elliot from the ET Movie, all grown up.  I must be dead inside, because I thought he was gross.  Ha! 

[Ottis]

On 10/3/2017 at 5:10 PM, Kelly said:

I liked this episode...but I have to say that I thought Sam went about the whole hotel thing rather weirdly.  Why not talk about this BEFORE you set off together?  And of course, HE was weird with his need to expose these 'surprises' to her on the trip.

Dammit, Sam. You're becoming the kind of person I can't stand. You agree to a weekend trip with a guy, which he planned and which he clearly, while respecting it was a tough decision for you, also is almost certain to assume that your going means your relationship is headed to the next level. But you go *knowing* that wanting separate rooms is going to at the very least confuse the guy and more likely upset him, and *you don't bother making that clear before you go.* What's worse, when you tell him and he reacts exactly the way anyone would expect, you respond as if it's his problem. It isn't. He's allowed to be confused by your mixed signals.

As for his need to surprise her, guys (and I assume, some women) do it all the time, and the ones who do it well plan it with aspects of their date's preferences/likes in mind. Which he seemed like he would do, based on what little we know of him. Though he doesn't seem to know her that well, honestly.

I get that Sam is unapologetically her own person, tired of putting up any kind of front for the world, and I respect that. But there is a bare minimum of respect you also need to give others when you know that your preferences won't align with those of people who like you. If you can tell the other dude in a parking lot that you hated sleeping with him, you can tell this dude, "Hey, I'd love to go, but please I'll get a separate room, because .... etc."

On 10/3/2017 at 3:37 PM, Nessie said:

But my God...how presumptuous of Robin to not even offer to get her her own room.

Seriously? A guy dating a woman asks her to go away for the weekend, and there is much back and forth about whether to go by the woman, and she decides yes, she wants to go. In what universe would any guy think of getting two rooms? Did Sam ever say it was to be platonic? Are they coworkers? What signal existed that indicated that the woman he is dating, who carefully considered whether to go and then said yes, would need a separate room? Yes, he could have asked while he was making his plans, as weird as that would be because no one expects this. But then so could Sam have made it clear that was what she wanted. She has no trouble shouting at other men in parking lots that she didn't like sleeping with them. She isn't shy. She is at minimum as much at fault as he is, for the misunderstanding.

And this ignores the solution of them sharing a room but one sleeping on a couch or hotel cot, as a compromise. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ottis

[Nessie]

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

Seriously? A guy dating a woman asks her to go away for the weekend, and there is much back and forth about whether to go by the woman, and she decides yes, she wants to go. In what universe would any guy think of getting two rooms? Did Sam ever say it was to be platonic? Are they coworkers? What signal existed that indicated that the woman he is dating, who carefully considered whether to go and then said yes, would need a separate room? Yes, he could have asked while he was making his plans, as weird as that would be because no one expects this. But then so could Sam have made it clear that was what she wanted. She has no trouble shouting at other men in parking lots that she didn't like sleeping with them. She isn't shy. She is at minimum as much at fault as he is, for the misunderstanding.

And this ignores the solution of them sharing a room but one sleeping on a couch or hotel cot, as a compromise. 

I guess where I was confused was if they were actually dating.  It looked like they met in a bar, sort of through knowing a person, talked that night, had a couple more phone conversations, and boom, he spontaneously asked her to go away for the weekend, she thinks about it a little, and says yes.  I don't think we even saw them meet face to face again.  So yes, she should have made it clear to him when she said yes that she expected a separate room, but on the other hand, I don't think he should have automatically assumed they would have shared a room, either.

Even if they were dating, it had to be very early in the relationship, and I just don't think a woman ever has to sleep with someone she doesn't want to, and vice versa.

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Nessie said:

guess where I was confused was if they were actually dating.  It looked like they met in a bar, sort of through knowing a person, talked that night, had a couple more phone conversations, and boom, he spontaneously asked her to go away for the weekend, she thinks about it a little, and says yes.  I don't think we even saw them meet face to face again. 

That's a good point. I don't have a clear sense of how time passes on the show. I had assumed they went out a few times, and that's why he asked her about a weekend. But that's my interpretation.

1 hour ago, Nessie said:

Even if they were dating, it had to be very early in the relationship, and I just don't think a woman ever has to sleep with someone she doesn't want to, and vice versa.

Agree, and I never suggested she had to. My point was that when two people who clearly have a dating-type relationship (given scenes shown with them, even if there were few dates) "go away for the weekend," the vast majority of the time both people will assume that it will involve one room. It may not mean sex, or even sleeping in the same bed. But for costs and logistics reasons alone, most people would presume that being together (regardless of activity) is the point of the trip, vs. at 10 p.m. everyone goes to their own rooms. And less cost is likely preferred - who wants to pay more? 

[Palomar]

21 hours ago, Kelly said:

I liked this episode...but I have to say that I thought Sam went about the whole hotel thing rather weirdly.  Why not talk about this BEFORE you set off together?  And of course, HE was weird with his need to expose these 'surprises' to her on the trip.

I hadn't realized that the actor was the actor that played Elliot from the ET Movie, all grown up.  I must be dead inside, because I thought he was gross.  Ha! 

And who played the younger brother in Legends of the Fall.

Yeah, I've probably watched too much ID lately, but I also got some bad thoughts when Robin brought up "surprises".  Glad he appears to be a good guy.

[Kelly]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

My point was that when two people who clearly have a dating-type relationship (given scenes shown with them, even if there were few dates) "go away for the weekend," the vast majority of the time both people will assume that it will involve one room. It may not mean sex, or even sleeping in the same bed. But for costs and logistics reasons alone, most people would presume that being together (regardless of activity) is the point of the trip, vs. at 10 p.m. everyone goes to their own rooms. And less cost is likely preferred - who wants to pay more? 

ITA

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, Nessie said:

It looked like they met in a bar, sort of through knowing a person, talked that night, had a couple more phone conversations, and boom, he spontaneously asked her to go away for the weekend, she thinks about it a little, and says yes.

That's how I interpreted it too.  I didn't get the sense that they had been out on an official date.

It would have been better for both of the to clarify the sleeping arrangements ahead of time but I don't think either were wrong for not doing so right away.  Sam deciding to go was spur of the moment.  And Robin knows himself.  Whether or not they had sex, he probably knew he'd respect her choice whether they were in the same room or not.  Sam doesn't know that about him.

And that's kind of the way it played out.  She said she wanted to get another room.  He became withdrawn which Sam (and viewers) interpreted as kind of angry.  (Which would have been a jerkish reaction).  But at the dinner, we find out he was kicking himself for not realizing that he should have not just assumed that sharing a room would be no big deal. 

[Ottis]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And that's kind of the way it played out.  She said she wanted to get another room.  He became withdrawn which Sam (and viewers) interpreted as kind of angry.  (Which would have been a jerkish reaction).  But at the dinner, we find out he was kicking himself for not realizing that he should have not just assumed that sharing a room would be no big deal. 

I agree with all of your post except my point is Robin's "jerkish" reaction would have been understandable given the context of a weekend away, and the way Sam communicated her preference. Also, I actually am not totally sure that Robin really believes what he said at dinner. That may simply have been an attempt to save the weekend, which they are already on and presumably he paid for. Driving off in a huff, leaving Sam, would have been more than jerkish. That said, if he never calls Sam again upon returning from the trip, it wouldn't surprise me. From what we have seen, Robin is getting to know a single woman with three kids who says she loves murder shows, dreams of getting murdered as a release and doesn't communicate what she wants until it is awkward. Speaking as someone who once called 911 on a girlfriend determined to hurt herself, and who hid the knives at night, I don't think Sam is especially appealing so far.

[possibilities]

She asked him where they were staying, and he refused to tell her. To me, that was jerkish in the extreme. She tried again, telling him she didn't like surprises, and he insisted that surprising her was important to him and continued to refuse to tell her where they were staying. To me this ups the jerkishness to a whole other level.

Finally, because he was being an asshole and rebuffing her attempts to be tactful, she told him she wanted to reserve (at her own expense) a separate room just in case-- she said she wanted them to be able to decide whether to share or not share after seeing how things were going, and to not need to share just because there was no alternative. SHe further reassured him that she was interested in him, and not offended by his assumption that they would be sleeping together, but she just likes to have the option as an insurance policy since it was their first time spending this much time together.

This is one of those times when I thought Sam was behaving very sensibly, and was in fact trying to do what she was doing in a polite way.

If things went well, he would never have known about the extra room. If things went badly, they would both be relieved it existed.

[Ottis]

On 10/5/2017 at 11:14 PM, possibilities said:

She asked him where they were staying, and he refused to tell her. To me, that was jerkish in the extreme.

He refused to tell her ... because it was a surprise he thought she would like. There is nothing jerkish about that. It happens all the time. Not knowing is the definition of surprise.

On 10/5/2017 at 11:14 PM, possibilities said:

She tried again, telling him she didn't like surprises, and he insisted that surprising her was important to him and continued to refuse to tell her where they were staying. To me this ups the jerkishness to a whole other level.

And you're missing the most important point: timing. She asked this second time, while actually on the trip, still without telling him *why* she wanted to know where they were staying, or her perspective on their time together that evening. A guy asked her on a trip away for the weekend, planned a surprise for her, and she is insisting he tell her the surprise *without* explaining why. She is the jerk here, IMO.

Only after her two attempts to have him spill a surprise that obviously meant something to him didn't work did she bother explaining why she wanted to know. And at that point, he immediately told her.

Another approach, upon accepting his invitation for the weekend: "Hey Robin, I hope this doesn't cause a problem, and if it does, I get it, but ... I like to have my own room on weekend trips. That way we can be together and do whatever we want, vs. if we have one room then there is an understanding that we do one thing. So I'd like to make my own reservation for a room - can you tell me where we are staying?"

That way no one is a jerk, and everyone knows what expectations are. I must be living in a different reality, because I don't see any way to view Robin as being a jerk given what Sam did and how she did it. It's important to note that I agree Sam can desire any arrangement she wants, that isn't the point. The point is that if what you want is unusual in the context of the situation, and Sam clearly seemed to understand it was, then be up front. Otherwise, be ready for a wide range of reactions.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Ottis

[BeckyThatcher]

I learn life through The Bachelor, thus "if you choose to forgo your respective hotel rooms..." means the option is there, usually just for the politeness factor. I am close their ages, and would expect a weekend stay to have two bedrooms reserved. Different ages, different budgets, different experiences can lead viewers to various opinions, just like the two characters had different expectations and perceptions. They both seem to be bumbling into their new relationship, trying to get things right, but still alone in their mindset.

 Their communication and faltering together is the beginning process of their dating. For me, it was just human fraililty on both their parts, and the resolution showed maturity.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, BeckyThatcher said:

I learn life through The Bachelor, thus "if you choose to forgo your respective hotel rooms..." means the option is there, usually just for the politeness factor. I am close their ages, and would expect a weekend stay to have two bedrooms reserved. Different ages, different budgets, different experiences can lead viewers to various opinions, just like the two characters had different expectations and perceptions. They both seem to be bumbling into their new relationship, trying to get things right, but still alone in their mindset.

I would expect that too--especially since they hadn't slept together yet.

 

On 10/5/2017 at 9:16 AM, Ottis said:

I agree with all of your post except my point is Robin's "jerkish" reaction would have been understandable given the context of a weekend away, and the way Sam communicated her preference.

I disagree.  She eventually explained why she wanted to know (although I think he should have been able to figure that out) and acting angry just because she wanted to give herself the option of not spending the night in the same room with him would have been a jerk move. 

[possibilities]

Her saying she doesn't like surprises IS a reason to stop insisting on surprising her. Why should she have to provide more reason than that? For him to override that and decide it's not reason enough to me makes him obnoxious. His desire to surprise her isn't because she'd like it, it's because he wants to do it even if she told him she doesn't like it. He doesn't get to decide if her reasons are sufficient, like she's a child and he's in charge.

[Jeanne222]

Anybody ever worry about STD's with these 'casual dates'?  Just wondering.

[Ottis]

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

Her saying she doesn't like surprises IS a reason to stop insisting on surprising her. Why should she have to provide more reason than that? For him to override that and decide it's not reason enough to me makes him obnoxious. His desire to surprise her isn't because she'd like it, it's because he wants to do it even if she told him she doesn't like it. He doesn't get to decide if her reasons are sufficient, like she's a child and he's in charge.

I can see that, but again, missing the point, which is timing. Robin is allowed to be first surprised and then disappointed that Sam doesn't want his surprise. He was both, and then he was upset for a bit. He didn't understand Sam's initial request, given the context of their trip together, and then when she said she didn't like surprises, he was confused (is she serious?) and yeah, upset because who communicates that way? It's like asking a friend to be your date at a wedding, and then after she buys a dress and comes with you, telling her to stay in the room because you're not a couple. Can you do that? Sure you can. But you're an asshole for doing it that way. And despite all of that, he seems to have worked through it, gotten to the right place and they are both good now. In my book, Robin is the hero here, and Sam was a jerk not because of her preferences (which she can have), but for her horrible, duplicitous way she communicated them. 

That's about all I have to say on this I think. It's clear cut to me, and I hope no one ever treats me that way nor would I ever treat others the way Sam did. Be honest, up front, and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ottis

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I find it creepy and disturbing that if a man and woman have two different expectations of how a date or a weekend or whatever you want to call it will go, the woman is horrible for speaking up for herself because she doesn't do it before the date or she insists on communicating her preference even if it's different from what her date is expecting. What the actual heck. How dare a woman say no to something she is uncomfortable with if it take's away a man's enjoyment? So what if Robin planned a surprise or wanted to share a hotel room? If Sam is uncomfortable participating in those things, then Robin doesn't get to experience them. Too fucking bad, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

I do find it ridiculous to expect to share a hotel room with someone you have previously spent exactly one evening with. You might hope but you don't know for sure unless you actually ask. But ok, it's no big deal to expect one or the other. When one person tells the other that no, I don't want to do that, the only appropriate response is OK we won't do that then. It really doesn't matter when he or she says it. You are allowed to say no to something you don't want to do at any time. Even while it is already happening. And you are not a jerk for doing so.

Some people expect that the third date is when you have sex. Because some people have that expectation, are you supposed to a) read their mind that that is what they are expecting b) tell them before you go on the third date that you don't plan on having sex with them and c) if you don't do either of those things you are a jerk for saying no, I'm not going to have sex with you at a later time in the date?

Let's take sex out of it. They went to a wine tasting, right? Let's say you agree to go to a wine tasting but once you're there you don't feel comfortable drinking. The person you go with will probably not have as fun a time than if you were both drinking but if you don't want to drink, you don't want to drink. That's it, you don't have to do it just because someone else will have more fun. It's not an ideal situation but you aren't a jerk for not participating in something you are not comfortable with.

It might be considered rude to expect Robin to pay for two hotel rooms, but Sam was planning on paying for her own so I don't see an issue there.

[bilgistic]

Thank you, @DoubleUTeeEff!

[Anna Oblomova]

Hhmm, last season I found Sam very relatable and sympathetic, but now begin to find her more and more irritating. She is not the sort of woman to be this naive. If a guy you're dating asks you to get away for the weekend, we all know the implications of that. Not that you're obliged to have sex ofcourse, but that you are at least open to the idea of spending time and sleeping together in one room. If not, she should have refused it all together or make it clear in advance it's only under the condition of having separate rooms. Just my opinion.

[Granimal]

Robin's feelings over (what I see as) a small issue, are so minuscule in comparison to Sam's (IMO) legitimate feelings about the separate bedrooms. I don't care if she forgot to ask ahead of time, it's a safety issue. Safety is more important than feelings. Meh.  Robin was silent way too long for him to not be angry and just plain lying during dinner. Red flags going off everywhere. If someone I had never had sex with asked me to a vineyard for the weekend, I would not expect them to get one hotel room. I've never been with a man who didn't offer me a separate room. In fact, I found it downright creepy and presumptuous that Robin thought Sam WOULDN'T want her own room.  This may very well just be generational differences.

[auntiemel]

On 10/9/2017 at 11:43 AM, possibilities said:

Her saying she doesn't like surprises IS a reason to stop insisting on surprising her. Why should she have to provide more reason than that? For him to override that and decide it's not reason enough to me makes him obnoxious. His desire to surprise her isn't because she'd like it, it's because he wants to do it even if she told him she doesn't like it. He doesn't get to decide if her reasons are sufficient, like she's a child and he's in charge.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 8:45 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I find it creepy and disturbing that if a man and woman have two different expectations of how a date or a weekend or whatever you want to call it will go, the woman is horrible for speaking up for herself because she doesn't do it before the date or she insists on communicating her preference even if it's different from what her date is expecting. What the actual heck. How dare a woman say no to something she is uncomfortable with if it take's away a man's enjoyment? So what if Robin planned a surprise or wanted to share a hotel room? If Sam is uncomfortable participating in those things, then Robin doesn't get to experience them. Too fucking bad, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

I do find it ridiculous to expect to share a hotel room with someone you have previously spent exactly one evening with. You might hope but you don't know for sure unless you actually ask. But ok, it's no big deal to expect one or the other. When one person tells the other that no, I don't want to do that, the only appropriate response is OK we won't do that then. It really doesn't matter when he or she says it. You are allowed to say no to something you don't want to do at any time. Even while it is already happening. And you are not a jerk for doing so.

Some people expect that the third date is when you have sex. Because some people have that expectation, are you supposed to a) read their mind that that is what they are expecting b) tell them before you go on the third date that you don't plan on having sex with them and c) if you don't do either of those things you are a jerk for saying no, I'm not going to have sex with you at a later time in the date?

Let's take sex out of it. They went to a wine tasting, right? Let's say you agree to go to a wine tasting but once you're there you don't feel comfortable drinking. The person you go with will probably not have as fun a time than if you were both drinking but if you don't want to drink, you don't want to drink. That's it, you don't have to do it just because someone else will have more fun. It's not an ideal situation but you aren't a jerk for not participating in something you are not comfortable with.

It might be considered rude to expect Robin to pay for two hotel rooms, but Sam was planning on paying for her own so I don't see an issue there.

Yes, to both of these, a MILLION times. YES!