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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

S04.E03: Odysseus

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in You're The Worst [V]

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Traveller519

Traveller519

Holy Crap! New Title/Opening Credits! I do like the Wanted/Do Not Serve posters, but kind of miss the old ones. They felt strangely authentic.

Jimmy's lack of empathy telegraphed where we were going, but that fight was one of the more real moments the show has had. I'm glad they didn't chose to go full sarcastic through it. They're not letting their emotional  crutches shield them. And I feel like we could certainly use some honesty from these two in this confrontation.

I am feeling a little like D'Angelo Barksdale, though. "Where's Honey Nutz, Sam??? Where is he?!?!?!?"

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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I'm glad that the show decided to remind us just how fucking annoying Ty is (especially since so many people were asking who he was last week).  When Gretchen was standing next to that water feature while everyone else did Saturday morning yoga, I found myself wondering what kind of artisanal water he had in there. The water bar episode was the height of Ty's Tyness!

I loved that when Jimmy showed up at Lindsay's apartment and he suggested waiting for Gretchen to come home, she said, "If you don't leave her alone, I will murder you! I've done it before!" It's moments like those when you find out who your true friends are. Lindsay can be selfish and self-absorbed but she loves Gretchen and rarely has to get so fiercely protective of Gretchen. It sickened me when Lindsay told Jimmy that Gretchen was devastated and he started to relax and smile. FUCK YOU, JIMMY.

Gretchen's reactions to Jimmy were perfect. When she stormed into his house, stood on something to make herself taller, and then yelled, "HEY! DOT DOT DOT!" and then stormed out, I wanted to high five her. He thought that he was being so cool when he sent her that generic text. As soon as he said, "But you did say 'family,'" I knew that she was going to do something to crush him. Mr. EB immediately said, "Uh oh, she's going to stab him for that!" I loved her fake out. Her only mistake was leaving his book on the ground. I was hoping she would set it on fire or pick it up and smack him in the head with it.

Loved the guys getting excited while they remembered how good the mushroom polenta was.

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Deanie87

Deanie87

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It sickened me when Lindsay told Jimmy that Gretchen was devastated and he started to relax and smile. FUCK YOU, JIMMY.

Ha, it was one of my favorite parts LOL!  Nobody wants to hear that their ex's life is 100x better after a breakup, at least this soon, even if they are the responsible party.  In general, I think that Jimmy is the more...empathetic/kind/sensitive(?) of the two (giving Arlo the money to fly, his romantic and elaborate murder scheme proposal), but his pomposity and self-righteousness always get him in the end.  I thought his apology was very sincere, if woefully adequate given what he did.

I also loved Gretchen's "HEY! DOT! DOT! DOT!" and the looks on both her and Jimmy's face during their confrontation.  I also loved Edgar's "Ohhhhh shit!"  I am looking forward to the antagonism between Jimmy and Gretchen, but I am also rooting for them to eventually get back together, as horrible as they are for one another.  Also, I am missing the brother-in-law, whose name I can't remember.  I hope we get a glimpse into that gang soon.  Though, if I never see Paul again, I'm good.

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luna1122

luna1122

I think Jimmy's apology was sincere, and I also think he smiled, not because he takes pleasure in Gretchen's pain, but because it indicates that she still cares about him. But none of that really matters, because what he did was so beyond the pale. Of course, she should never forgive him, but she also shouldn't be too surprised. He's come thru for her when she needed him, sure, and he actually does love her, in his limited way, but like the song/fable says, she knew he was a snake when she brought him in. (and vice versa, mostly. It just as easily could have been Gretchen bailing on Jimmy in this scenario).

Edgar being all hurt and pissed at Jimmy but not being able to NOT ask about the jazzy car in the drive and wanting a future ride in it was funny. I liked Lindsay's feral reaction about Gretchen to Jimmy too.

It was good to see Gretchen so calmly taking Jimmy down. Her way of handling what he did: hibernating, eating junk, drinking too much, sleeping with randos....not healthy, but relatable (tho so much the crack)...but she's coming out the other side. Sort of. In her own Gretchen way. I do think they'll wind up together again, eventually, but maybe Jimmy will actually have to work for it.

Are Aya Cash's eyebrows more...prounounced...this season?

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arc

arc

I'm on Twitter all the time and yet it still didn't register for me that the final moment, hat and all, was a total reference to the dog sitting in the middle of a fire, saying "this is fine."

It was obvious from the moment Jimmy said "but you did say 'family'" that Gretchen would take it very badly (and she was absolutely justified!) but even so, her fake-out went so long I started to lower my defenses by the time she deliberately didn't catch the book.

Ty is the woooooooorst.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

This is just about how I figured the reunion of Gretchen and Jimmy would go, complete with Gretchen trying to get taller than Jimmy after his ever so cool "Hey..." text. I am glad that they went sincere with Jimmy's apology, and I do think he is sorry about how he handled things, but I am also glad that Gretchen told him where he can shove his super pretentious book. I know that Gretchen should probably never forgive him, but, honestly, she knows Jimmy, and she should probably expect this from him. He stuck with her during the height of her depression and he does love her (as much as he is capable), but the guy is a total mess whos pretentiousness and his fear of vulnerability is always going to catch up with him. She is pretty similar, and, honestly, she could have very easily been the one to screw everything up, even if she didn't here. Thats why I still root for them to get together. They're made for each other, dysfunction and all. 

25 minutes ago, arc said:

was a total reference to the dog sitting in the middle of a fire, saying "this is fine."

Oh my God how didn't I catch that? I thought it was hilarious in a reference to Jimmy's life being a literal Dumpster Fire, but that just adds an extra level to the hilarity. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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whiporee

whiporee

I find myself siding with Jimmy more than I thought I would. He made the best effort he could, and I do think he's grown a bit. Also, he didn't slide into bed with the first girl he had a chance to slide into bed with -- I think he acknowledged he loved Gretchen. it would have been more upfront to tell her he had things to work out instead of just leaving, but I don't think that would have played out any better. I love the character of Gretchen, but she's a pretty destructive force, and I don't think any sign of weakness or second thoughts would have gone over any better than leaving did. And I also find it interesting that over the three months, Gretchen hadn't figured out why he left -- any of us would have replayed the conversation a million times, and she certainly would have figured out if she understood him even a little --  what her family comment would have meant to him. Not to rationalize or justify his leaving her on the hill, but she had to understand, at least a little, where he had been coming from, or she should have over the three months. 

I did think the screenshot of the texts she sent him were very true and very accurate. 

I'm sympathetic towards Gretchen, but ... she did know he was looking for her, and then went and fucked a rando. I'm sure you could say he had it coming, but she knew he was looking for her and fucked the rando before even knowing what he was going to say. Perfectly within her rights, but still. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

I'm not sure how to feel about Edgar. On the one hand it's kind of funny how he was projecting himself into Gretchen's situation and was clearly upset that Jimmie had abandoned him. But  . . . at the end of the day, Edgar is still mooching off of Jimmy, living at his house for free, and even has a job now. I don't think Jimmy really owes him anything and whatever affection Jimmy might have for Edgar is largely in Edgar's own imagination. Makes it hard to side with Edgar.

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Blakeston

Blakeston

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure how to feel about Edgar. On the one hand it's kind of funny how he was projecting himself into Gretchen's situation and was clearly upset that Jimmie had abandoned him. But  . . . at the end of the day, Edgar is still mooching off of Jimmy, living at his house for free, and even has a job now. I don't think Jimmy really owes him anything and whatever affection Jimmy might have for Edgar is largely in Edgar's own imagination. Makes it hard to side with Edgar.

Edgar has been nothing but a loyal friend to Jimmy, even when Jimmy has treated him horribly. I'd be furious if my closest friend (and roommate) disappeared for three months without giving me any indication that he was alive.

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starriepie

starriepie

34 minutes ago, arc said:

What was Gretchen licking in that box of stuff at Ty's? A baseball?

It was a giant jawbreaker. About the size of a baseball, for sure.

Also? HELLO, MAYTAG MAN!

I have more thoughts on the episode, but those will come later.

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AlliMo

AlliMo

Colin Ferguson will always be Sheriff Carter to me, and I was delighted to see him. I hope it's not just a one off, actually.

I loved this episode, and I love this show, as nutso as it is. Everyone on it is just so, so good.

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starriepie

starriepie

12 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

Ha, it was one of my favorite parts LOL!  Nobody wants to hear that their ex's life is 100x better after a breakup, at least this soon, even if they are the responsible party.  In general, I think that Jimmy is the more...empathetic/kind/sensitive(?) of the two (giving Arlo the money to fly, his romantic and elaborate murder scheme proposal), but his pomposity and self-righteousness always get him in the end.  I thought his apology was very sincere, if woefully adequate given what he did.

I also loved Gretchen's "HEY! DOT! DOT! DOT!" and the looks on both her and Jimmy's face during their confrontation.  I also loved Edgar's "Ohhhhh shit!"  I am looking forward to the antagonism between Jimmy and Gretchen, but I am also rooting for them to eventually get back together, as horrible as they are for one another.  Also, I am missing the brother-in-law, whose name I can't remember.  I hope we get a glimpse into that gang soon.  Though, if I never see Paul again, I'm good.

I agree. He's always had a weird, almost romantic way with words to Gretchen (I mean, he's a writer after all)... going back to the S1 finale speech he gave her in the apartment when he was trying to give her a key, his speech on the mountain in S3, etc. Underneath the big words and pomposity of them, there's some genuine emotion there. But, it always has to be tempered somehow so as not to appear completely sappy because he can't let himself be THAT vulnerable. But, really, the only one that he will be that vulnerable to is her. He also can't leave well enough alone - had to just poke that bear that she was in the wrong too (to him, anyway). 

And that BOOK. Seriously, he admitted in the fight episode last year that their relationship was the inspiration for the book. He disappears for three months and then asks if she wants to see the damn book?! No kidding she let that shit fall to the ground HARD. 

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Cherry Cola

Cherry Cola

4 hours ago, butterbody said:

I adore Kether Donohue and it is awesome to see a fellow plus sized gal being so free and unapologetic about her body and sexuality. 

I agree.  She is gorgeous!! 

Gretchen thinking she is alone in bed and farting was hilarious.  

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

I adore Kether Donohue and it is awesome to see a fellow plus sized gal being so free and unapologetic about her body and sexuality. 

I don't know that I would even consider her "plus-sized" if I met her in person. She's really only plus-sized by TV standards. I bet she's pretty tiny in real life.

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Ottis

Ottis

(edited)

Enh, I forgot  how much this show maddens me. I was reminded when Ty's friend, whose name I didn't catch, seemed so normal and well adjusted in his interactions with crazy Gretchen ... until he banged her. Meanwhile, IMO Jimmy has grown significantly and his apology was sincere, and Gretchen, who knew he was back and looking for her first banged that guy (so she is moving on?) and THEN went to see Jimmy and yell in his face (OK, so she wants to confront him?) and THEN she runs off back to her shared apartment and THEN listens to him long enough to hear his apology and says OK and THEN she just leaves and THEN she comes back because he says family and THEN she takes the time to fake acting understanding just so she can then hurt Jimmy. She is exhausting. He isn't perfect at all, has limitations and she knows it, however ...  I guarantee you if Gretchen had run off and then come back and said "family" freaked her out and her dad had died, etc., she would totally expect Jimmy to not only understand that but to kiss her feet for deigning to return. 

Edited by Ottis
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arc

arc

By my lights, his initial apology was sincere but his tacked on "but you did say 'family'" was impossibly smug.

And then he buys it when Gretchen says -- and you can hear the barely hidden sarcasm -- "you got scared, because you asked me to be your wife, and I said yes, and then I used the word 'family'?" I mean, it's blindingly obvious how ridiculous and unacceptable what he did was when she frames it like that, but he's just "yeah, so you do understand why I ran." Her dropping the book wasn't remotely sufficient revenge.

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biakbiak

biakbiak

1 hour ago, arc said:

my lights, his initial apology was sincere but his tacked on "but you did say 'family'" was impossibly smug.

Also, after what he did it would take more than one apology no matter how sincere to move past it and have even a slightly constructive conversation.

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Ottis

Ottis

(edited)
17 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Also, after what he did it would take more than one apology no matter how sincere to move past it and have even a slightly constructive conversation.

And this is where I can't get on board. What he did was, after finally getting to a place where he could ask someone to marry him, was get a yes from Gretchen, and then run away and disappear for 3 months. Apparently leaving his house and most possessions behind, evidence that he would be back ... eventually. Leaving aside the fact that anyone who proposed to that mess would have second thoughts, Jimmy is clearly damaged and it's not a surprise that he would then run away after finally expressing a desire for commitment. The fact he disappears is further proof (vs. plays games via phone, etc.). He isn't well and needs help, but at least he doesn't jerk people back and forth every 20 minutes.  If I were Gretchen, and I actually loved Jimmy, I would be more interested in talking and understanding why he left (and where the hell he was) then immediately ramping it up to even worse levels.

19 hours ago, arc said:

By my lights, his initial apology was sincere but his tacked on "but you did say 'family'" was impossibly smug.

Exactly. He's an insecure twit who needs to justify his insecurity, and he couldn't just apologize and leave it at that. Gretchen didn't help by saying "OK" and then leaving behind a gate, vs.  giving some idea of what's next ("we can talk later," or 'I'll think about it," or something). Which is consistent, I guess, with her inability to talk to Jimmy about her depression a season or two ago, and instead to lock him out and then blame him when he fumblingly tried to help.

In other words, Jimmy has big flaws, and yet underneath there is a clear indication that he is trying, and trying to get to the right place even as he takes steps backward. Gretchen lashes out at almost everything, and you never know really whether she intends anything except destruction. You can believe in Jimmy, even as he flakes out. With Gretchen, even if she finally did say she would marry Jimmy, there is also an expectation that her yes comes with a lot of strings, and I don't know if Jimmy can quite get there. 

I get that the show is called, "You're the Worst," and that these two people (and their roommates) are not supposed to come across as well adjusted.  I'd choose good-hearted but pompous Jimmy and his disappearing act as a friend long before drug using, lashing out, crappy decision-making Gretchen. 

Edited by Ottis
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arc

arc

If this wasn't a TV show, "what's next" (after just the initial apology) would be that Gretchen would probably never talk to Jimmy again, not willingly. (I felt so much for her in the second half of the season premiere when she said "what if I run into him and then I die???")

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biakbiak

biakbiak

14 hours ago, Ottis said:

Apparently leaving his house and most possessions behind, evidence that he would be back ... eventually.

Or that he was dead or was never going to come back, he wasn't in contact with anyone, I don't know why they would assume he was coming back. Then in his first outreach to Gretchen wasn't even a phone call but a completely generic text.

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Ottis

Ottis

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Or that he was dead or was never going to come back, he wasn't in contact with anyone, I don't know why they would assume he was coming back. Then in his first outreach to Gretchen wasn't even a phone call but a completely generic text.

Because pompous, self-centered people who think highly of themselves always come back.. If they don't, then it can't be about them. You can't build up a character based on these traits, and then assume they would act the opposite of those traits. Gretchen's behaviors might have led her to an accidental death or a suicide. Not Jimmy's. And if Gretchen believed he were dead, or never coming back, then she didn't know Jimmy.

 

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Then in his first outreach to Gretchen wasn't even a phone call but a completely generic text.

In a world where people their ages find each other, hook up and communicate all by text, the fact it was a text wasn't unusual at all. And the fact it was "generic" was his attempt, a thoughtful one actually given how self-centered Jimmy is, to recognize what he did would have affected Gretchen, and he didn't want to act like it was no big deal. Texting, "I'm back!" would have been thoughtless. "Hey ..." was a tentative attempt to reach out to someone who Jimmy knew was as likely to burn down his house as be glad he was alive. BTW, if she did care about him, and did think he could be dead as you noted, I would think one of her reactions (maybe the main one?) would be that she was glad he was alive and reaching out. But she was more interested in "making him pay!" then anything normal.

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AlliMo

AlliMo

Oh, come on. When your boyfriend proposes to you, then immediately leaves you stranded on a hill and disappears for three months, anger is a completely normal reaction. I'd go so far as to say that any "normal" person would never want to speak to him again.

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Ottis

Ottis

1 hour ago, AlliMo said:

Oh, come on. When your boyfriend proposes to you, then immediately leaves you stranded on a hill and disappears for three months, anger is a completely normal reaction. I'd go so far as to say that any "normal" person would never want to speak to him again.

Of course. And if Gretchen had chosen to do that, it would be understandable. But she didn't. She saw his text he was back (and alive), screwed another guy, drove to Jimmy's home and shouted in his face, drove off, listened to his apology outside her place and said "OK," left without further comment, then came back out and purposely messed with him before heading off on another rampage with Lindsay. What is Jimmy to make of that? Either she's crazy (my viewpoint), or she's so angry that she's destructive, in which case Jimmy should run far away.  Either way, Jimmy is right to be cautious and understandably confused.  Don't get me wrong - what he did was beyond the pale and he must own it and his behavior. I don't excuse his action. I'm just pointing out that he came back, thought about how to reach out and then apologized. That seems like a good first step, as opposed to what Gretchen is doing, which is scorched earth.

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arc

arc

(edited)
4 hours ago, Ottis said:

What is Jimmy to make of that? 

That his initial apology had not in fact fixed things nearly enough to start both-sides-ing, much less assume that they were back together and she would want to see his galley? That the three month abandonment was not forgiven and forgotten?

Edited by arc
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Ottis

Ottis

1 hour ago, arc said:

That his initial apology had not in fact fixed things nearly enough to start both-sides-ing, much less assume that they were back together and she would want to see his galley? That the three month abandonment was not forgiven and forgotten?

I guess I don't get as upset (at TV shows, or IRL) at people acting badly when it is more a matter of who they actually are and which you need to accept at some point to be in their lives (Jimmy), vs. people who act badly in a calculated matter to punish others (Gretchen). That's a key difference for me.

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

If Gretchen didn't go "scorched earth" there would be no show, or at least not one I'd want to watch.

Totally get that, and  I agree we need the drama for the show to exist. Within that context, I don't understand excusing and/or justifying Gretchen's behavior, as noted above in this post. YMMV of course.

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kieyra

kieyra

Yeah, have to agree to disagree. The show is about both of them being awful, such as Jimmy stringing Gretchen along for a lot of season 3 with his pro/con list and whether Gretchen would make the cut after he re-evaluated everything in his life. (BEFORE the giant proposal mindfuck.) If we go down the "which one of them is worse" rabbit hole, then the threads become Saul V Chuck (a "who is worse" thing that makes the Better Call Saul forums very tedious). It's not how I watch the show, and I don't think it's what the showrunners intend. But obviously people are free to watch it any way they want. :)

All of which, I suppose, is a roundabout way for me to say that I think Gretchen's response was 1) 100% proportionate, 2) completely in character, both for her and for their dynamic as a couple. 

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festivus

festivus

Oh shit I died when Gretchen yelled "Hey" in Jimmy's face. That was so damn perfect.  Colin Ferguson is a great addition to the show, Jimmy who?

I thought Edgar and Lindsay together would get on my nerves but so far it's not. They're writing Lindsay better and Edgar is not coming off as a lovesick wet mop. I'm sure it will be ruined soon.

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