S07.E05: Eastwatch

[HolmesUltimateQu]

35 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

BBM?

bolded by me. Lol, I just wanted to point out that I was talking about the bolded part and I bolded it. :D

[FemmyV]

5 minutes ago, Insomnia said:

Except burning to death at the stake is probably a lot worse than being burned to death by dragon fire. When you're burned to death at the stake, all the hot fumes and smoke end up killing you before the fire does and you are incredible pain.  That's why Shireen and Mance were both screaming as it happened, it takes a long time. Dragon breath is hot enough to melt stone - that's what happened to Harenhal.  They were alive for seconds before they were ash. Beheading by sword isn't exactly better either - look at Theon hacking over and over again when he tried it. And hanging? Sometimes the neck doesn't quite break and you can dangle there for hours before you actual die.

 

Dragon fire seems to be one of the more humane ways to kill your enemies. Gruesome, sure, but war isn't exactly gentle.

Additionally, Mance was no threat to Stannis' goals. He'd already surrendered. He wasn't going to offer an army to Stannis' enemies, he just wanted safety for his people.

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

He does have a sexy voice.

That entire final scene had three sexy voices--Davos, Jorah, and Cyclops. Plus I like The Hound's gruffness. And Tormund 's weird accent. Sometimes he sounds Italian!

[egnever]

2 hours ago, LanceM said:

Dany's claim comes from being Viserys's heir. Viserys was crowned King on Dragonstone prior to them fleeing to Essos.

Jon's claim would be that he is Rhaegar's trueborn son.

Whose claim is stronger depends on who you ask.  Look back at the war of the 5 kings and who was supporting Renly and Stannis.

Renly had a very weak claim to the throne. His argument was that he would have made a better/more charismatic king than Stannis, and it was compelling enough to get people to follow him.

By standard rules of succession, Jon now has a stronger claim than Dany. The crown prince's last extant heir jumps ahead of the younger children to the king. It's the same reason why Prince William is ahead of Prince Andrew or Edward.

Dany is still on the line of succession, but her claim is lower than that of Jon's. Under peacetime rules, Jon would have to abdicate and leave no issue in order for Dany to become Queen. But as Robert showed us, you don't have to be next in line to ultimately sit on the throne.

[Ambrosefolly]

Rhaegar sucked and Lyanna was a bitch doing that to Elia. Fuck Lyanna and her fear of Robert keeping to one bed. 

[dragonsbite]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that Gendry is back because they are going to re-establish the House Baratheon. However, it could just be meta and fan servicing.

It could also be setting up conflict for Jon being crowned king as a Targaryen heir:  Gendry is a Baratheon heir. So now we could have a war of kings all over again.  EXCEPT Jon's too smart for that. He'd walk away.

[Oscirus]

6 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Rhaegar sucked and Lyanna was a bitch doing that to Elia. Fuck Lyanna and her fear of Robert keeping to one bed. 

the Dornish men had to fight on the side that made their children bastards and their princess a whore ( and pulled the annulment in their hometown too), and then they  had the sand snakes represent them. The Dornish got no respect in this story.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Oscirus

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, alaynestone said:

And ughhhhhh NO, please god no - NOT another baby for Cersei and Jaime.  I don't even know what the hell the purpose of that is...  Isn't she only supposed to have 3 kids?

Hmm, I didn't think of that. According to Maggie's prophecy, Cersei would have only 3 kids. So I think that baby is not going to be born. Miscarriage, or Cersei dying, or something.

[Oscirus]

6 minutes ago, dragonsbite said:

It could also be setting up conflict for Jon being crowned king as a Targaryen heir:  Gendry is a Baratheon heir. So now we could have a war of kings all over again.  EXCEPT Jon's too smart for that. He'd walk away.

Gendry's a bastard, he's not entitled to jack shit.

1 minute ago, KaleyFirefly said:

Hmm, I didn't think of that. According to Maggie's prophecy, Cersei would have only 3 kids. So I think that baby is not going to be born. Miscarriage, or Cersei dying, or something.

Oh really? 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Oscirus

[FemmyV]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

In her mind, picking Tyrion over her is a betrayal and he's done it numerous times throughout this show. Latest being defending him to her earlier in this show.

More and more, Cersei is treating Jamie less like an equal and more like a soldier. When he finally says, 'enough,' I think that's going to come into play, as well.

[WearyTraveler]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

Gendry's a bastard, he's not entitled to jack shit.

King Jon can fix that in a heartbeat, though

[Ambrosefolly]

Just now, Oscirus said:

Gendry's a bastar, he's not entitled to jack shit.

Not only that, he is an unacknowledged bastard, unlike Jon.

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I think this episode is proving that Sansa is more a kings landing type of leader than a winterfell leader. She plays the game, better then most nowadays. North don't have the time for games so they're straight to the point. 

Well, they might not have time for games, but they are all happy to be played.  It's likely that Arya has been following LF for a long time and he knows it.  Royce and Glover speak against Jon and then we see LF talking to them while Arya watches.  I think we can assume that LF set it up for them to speak against Jon, knowing Arya would hear it and then follow him and see him paying people off or appearing to pay people off.

He also added the "Lady Stark thanks you for your service" for Arya's benefit.

Now is his plan for Arya to kill Sansa so he can then claim Winterfell via making Bran in charge, but really ruling as Bran's regent(since he knows that Bran is not Bran anymore and doesn't want to rule).  Or just have Arya try to kill Sansa, then he swoops in and stops it or saves Sansa and then it's set up for Sansa to have to take Winterfell and appear to be betraying Jon, since he probably won't believe that Arya tried to kill Sansa.

[jeansheridan]

3 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Not only that, he is an unacknowledged bastard, unlike Jon.

More importantly,  he has no training or education to rule. Being a nice guy isn't enough. The show has taken great pains to show Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and Sansa learn their skills. Even Cersei has learned.

She isn't mad . A mad woman couldn't control herself so well. Letting Tyrion come and go. But poor Bronn. Run Bronn, run.

[Shimmergloom]

3 hours ago, gbbarb said:

I think it proves Sansa it smart enough to know not everyone is going to agree with her or Jon's decisions every time.   Disagreements happens, consensus it needed not cutting off heads

It seems like she learned something from Jon.  I don't think the everyone working together idea came from her time in KL or the Vale or with the Boltons.  She had to have learned that watching Jon hold court.  Also, at the end Jon is getting people who don't like each other to work together.  Wildlings hate Mormonts, Gendry hates the Brotherhood, Jon doesn't particularly like the Hound.  But they have to work together.

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I keep reading that Jon is the heir. I don't get where that comes from. In no European monarchy succession (which this story is based on) can the king's nephew claim succession right to the throne over any of his children, male or female. 

Jon is not the nephew, he is Rhaegar's son. Rhaegar was Mad King Aerys' son. So Jon would be next in line for the throne after Aerys and Rhaegar are dead. Maybe what you're thinking of is that Jon is Daenerys' nephew.

[Oscirus]

7 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

Well, they might not have time for games, but they are all happy to be played.  It's likely that Arya has been following LF for a long time and he knows it.  Royce and Glover speak against Jon and then we see LF talking to them while Arya watches.  I think we can assume that LF set it up for them to speak against Jon, knowing Arya would hear it and then follow him and see him paying people off or appearing to pay people off.

He also added the "Lady Stark thanks you for your service" for Arya's benefit.

Now is his plan for Arya to kill Sansa so he can then claim Winterfell via making Bran in charge, but really ruling as Bran's regent(since he knows that Bran is not Bran anymore and doesn't want to rule).  Or just have Arya try to kill Sansa, then he swoops in and stops it or saves Sansa and then it's set up for Sansa to have to take Winterfell and appear to be betraying Jon, since he probably won't believe that Arya tried to kill Sansa.

1. I believe his plan is to separate Sansa from her siblings. Have Sansa get kicked out of Winterfell so she's once again at the mercy of his whims and schemes.

[egnever]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I'm a little confused.  There seems to be some suggestion here that Jon Snow would be clear cut heir to the throne?  Could someone explain why that is?  Is it just because he is male?  Because Daenerys is more directly descended from the mad king.

Also:  How do you think that it will come out that Tyrion is Targaryan, assuming that he is?  Who is there around who would know?  Bran?

The line of succession follows the eldest children. In male-preference primogeniture, it means the eldest male heir is ahead of all the female heirs even if they are older (e.g. Bran being rightful Lord of Winterfell ahead of Sansa). But even in gender-neutral primogeniture, it continues to follow the eldest's line all the way down before it jumps to the next nearest descendent.

E.g. let's accept that Jon is King of the North, and as of right now, Sansa is the next heir. If Jon were to have children, those children would jump ahead of Sansa's claim, because they are the legitimate children of the King of the North. If Jon's children have children, they would jump ahead of Sansa too.

You see this already with the current line of succession to the British throne. Prince Charles is the Crown Prince. He has three younger siblings: Anne, Andrew, and Edward. Andrew and Edward (in that order, by birth), jump ahead of Anne, because they are male. (Male-preference primogeniture was removed in 2011, but this line of succession was grandfathered in from before).

However, Charles has children: William and Harry. By rule, William and Harry now jump ahead of Andrew, Edward, and Anne.

However, William has children: George and Charlotte. By rule, George and Charlotte now jump ahead of Harry, Andrew, Edward, and Anne.

It's pretty simple really, the "main" branch of the tree is the most important. Follow the eldest child's family all the way down, then traverse back up (one generation at a time) if there are none left.

Edited August 14, 2017 by egnever

[FemmyV]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

I don't understand. Pics with them smiling (from years ago at that) doesn't say anything about their on screen chemistry now.  I feel nothing when they are on screen together.

Of those who say they don't see the chemistry, I have to question exactly what kind of chemistry are you looking for? Sexual? When Jon was with Ygritte, she was trying to get into his pants on their first night of acquaintance. It was there right away, because it was written that way. In current terms, neither Jon nor Dany are looking for sexual partners: she's looking for a possible marital alliance, but he doesn't know that. He's trying to walk the line of getting the help he needs for the North, without bending the knee and without getting killed. The chemistry I see with the characters is that they're being open with each other about their goals, and who they are, and they are showing each other some amount of vulnerability. Think back to their meeting, when Dany got off of the throne and walked straight up to him and gave him the list of what she'd been through. How many other Westerosi leaders do you think she would have been drawn to as much, to do that?

Spoiler

Give it two weeks and we will see their relationship take a turn toward the sexual. With EPIC BOATSEX!

Edited August 14, 2017 by FemmyV

[screamin]

Samwell is dead to me, he has crossed the line, he has committed an unforgivable crime. He stole library books. There is no lower that he can sink.

Not to mention it was kind of dumb for him to gather those books in complete darkness, without even a candle to see if they were really the ones he wanted. (Of course they WILL turn out to be, but it's that kind of sloppy shortcut that spoils the illusion.)

Another bit that kind of annoyed me, when Davos said he had business in Flea Bottom, I thought we'd hear about his wife, or at least verify if he still had one. Instead, it was just Gendry.

[GrailKing]

57 minutes ago, rachel is awesome said:

bolded by me. Lol, I just wanted to point out that I was talking about the bolded part and I bolded it. :D

Well you had me scratching my head with the Urban Dictionary answer. LOL

[HolmesUltimateQu]

2 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Well you had me scratching my head with the Urban Dictionary answer. LOL

Oh no. I'll have to go look! How embarrassed should I be? You know what, it's okay if I don't know. Lol

[Shimmergloom]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

I don't disagree that there's plenty of potential for them to have conflicting views, but this particular conflict is incredibly forced and makes Arya look really dumb, which she isn't.

It wouldn't be HBO's version of game of thrones if these writers weren't making one Stark or another look like an imbecile nearly every episode.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

Backstroke!

Actually, Bronn dragged Jamie out . . . all the way on the opposite side of the lake . . . without surfacing first . . . he's a right champion swimmer our Bronn is. . . . didn't even make Jamie drop his golden hand or any of his armor along the way.

OR Widows Wail.

[Happy Harpy]

My baby is baaaaack! (Don't you kill him off.)  He's got a warhammer and he knows how to use it! Badass. Three years, I've been waiting for his return. Gendry/Davos, yay! As an introduction, "Hi, I'm Robert's bastard!" sounded very much like "It's Jon Snow, he's King in the North", it was a nice touch showing their Flea Bottom similarities.  Jon/Gendry, Team Good Bastards is ON! It was cute when Jon smiled. He's never at ease with people's deference, I could see how he liked Gendry's direct ways. I'd tend to think that if Gendry were to die before meeting Arya again, she'd have been mentioned for maximum angst, in prevision. I can fanwank at least three reasons why there was no mention of Arya there, but we'll see.

All the conflicts during the Eastwatch jail scene made me think, there are so many "I know people you know", they could get a miniseries spinoff out of it. I would love to see Tyrion's face if Arya revealed she was cup bearer to his father, for example. I would have loved if someone told Tywin he actually saved Robert's son, LOL.

Lena Headey is fabulous but I'm over Cersei. She peaked with blowing the Sept, she had her revenge for Myrcella and Joffrey, I'm past love to hate and she annoys me now. Her paranoia, her delusion, her drinking her own Kool-Aid and believing she's the reincarnation of her father, her self-satisfied smirk...I can't anymore. And one more reason for Jaime to stay, ugh.

Jon and the dragon was as cool as I imagined. I have a soft spot for Jorah and Dany, and I loved their reunion. I know it's weird, but I was kind of glad that Jorah got to see Jon being "jealous"  before he realized he was friendzoned again. Dany's reaction to Jon going beyond the Wall was a call back to her waiting for Daario's return back in S3, Jorah couldn't miss it. I do like how the Jon/Dany relationship develops, including in its glorious lack of subtlety toward a romantic direction, and I'm definitely on board.

I don't have a problem with how Dany dealt with the Tarlys, although I feel sorry for this incarnation of Dickon. I appreciated how they showed the different reaction among the soldiers. Some bent the knee at once, most of them probably out of pragmatism, yet the camera showed at least one that seemed to believe what Dany said, and the last surrendered out of fear.  I'm glad that for now, Tyrion and Varys are more worried about what Dany could be, than about what she is and they don't think of betraying her.  It was a very nice scene, with Varys admitting to his regrets, and I laughed at Tyrion's reaction when Varys took his wine glass.

For me, the foundations of the Sansa/Arya antagonism are logical and fit the characters. Their childhood gave Arya ground to distrust her sister, since Sansa did betray Arya for the new shiny thing and her  friend died; moreover Sansa's choice involved not telling the truth. Sansa getting haughty and annoyed at her little sister who "doesn't get it" and her ambition is also reminiscent of who she was as a child. Since they didn't see each other since, they grew up without growing out of it. Of course, they changed. Sansa had a point about the reality of the Northern alliance, and the risk of a Karstark-like secession. Arya had one about the importance of loyalty, especially with Lord Glover whose actions were akin to treason, and Janos Slynting a traitor can be efficient. BTW, if the writers and directors wanted it to be clear that Arya was wrong about part of Sansa wanting the North (she accused Sansa of being tempted, not of actively trying to take Jon's place) they'd have make it clear onscreen. Nevertheless, the way the conflict unrolls gets more clunky as soon as it involves Littlefinger. Maybe it's because I'm over him and I don't feel a sense of danger coming from him anymore. He failed with Jon, he failed with Bran, Sansa keeps him around to play her Iago, but ultimately his success depends on her decision to surrender or not to temptation. He seems so out of his depth. I can see Arya's distrust blinding her at first, and if she doesn't interact directly with LF, but I'll call BS if she falls for it hook and sinker.

I'm not sure that whoever has a legit claim truly matters anymore, especially between Jon and Dany. If there's still an Iron Throne, the last one or the last couple standing will sit on it imo.  If they set up Jon as the legitimate son of Rhaegar, it will matter at one point but I wonder if it could play in another way than in the succession. I found it interesting that they kept the mention of Dorne. IIRC, they didn't say where the ToJ was last season. It sounds like adding insult to injury that Rhaegar went there to marry Lyanna, and maybe it was. But I feel a discrepancy, and I hold on to my crackpot theory that it had something to do with the prophecy or dragon eggs.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Happy Harpy

[jeansheridan]

Drogon looked especially large this ep. And his wings when he fluffed them up to impress Jon were more detailed than I have ever seen before. 

Kit played that so well. His shaking hand, his need to touch. Risking his hand too. Drogon could have nipped it right off

Davos wins for his grumbling, "I have only lived to an old age, don't listen to me" comment. And be a coward for a minute isn't so bad either. Davos, Bronn, and Sam are sensible people.

[WaltersHair]

"What's in your boat?"

An intergalactic transporter, because, damn they are whizzing across continents at light speed this season.

[Shimmergloom]

57 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Gendry's a bastard, he's not entitled to jack shit.

Remember that Kings or Queen's can legitimize bastards.  Jon can make Gendry legitimate. 

 

Also, remember as book readers, many for a long time have felt that Elia and Rheagar had a loveless marriage and it was possible that her children, were not his children and we would find that out when Aegon tried to tame one of the dragons.  That he's not a Targ.

 

58 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I didn't think of that. According to Maggie's prophecy, Cersei would have only 3 kids. So I think that baby is not going to be born. Miscarriage, or Cersei dying, or something.

 

I think it would be interesting if after all this time wondering who would be the one who killed Cersei, if it turns out that the Younger, more Beautiful woman turns out to be her own daughter and Cersei dies in childbirth.  It would be a Martin thing to do, for Cersei to die, but not in the way that people expected or wanted.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Shimmergloom

[Insomnia]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Then Dany is the heir. Brings me back to  why are so many people claiming Jon is?

Dany is a woman. Targaryen rule has always been patriarchal. The one time there was a female heir a whole lotta dragons died.

[jeansheridan]

But he has silver hair and purple eyes in the book. Tyrion notices the blue hair dye is covering up the real color.

I think he is legit. And I like Jon Connington too. 

But they will never make it to the show clearly.

1 minute ago, Insomnia said:

The one time there was a female heir a whole lotta dragons died.

What book is this from?

6 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

and Cersei dies in childbirth. 

I love this idea!  Can Jaime raise her with Bronx and Tyrion?

[Blonde Gator]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

Davos is an absolute treasure.  The writers love him and I do too.  "I thought you were still rowing somewhere."  

Sam needs to not be so damned impatient and listen.  Arya also needs to be more perceptive.

Cersei is super irritating and I'll be happy if a Dracarys comes her way.

I think Sam was listening, only it didn't appear to be that way, because he quoted the exact number of stairs, only as "shits".  He heard exactly what was said, and will remember it.  Only in the current context, he had exactly zero reason to pay attention, the circumstances of Jon's birth are currently not known to him.

I also loved this scene, because when Sam decided "this maester crap is just bullshit"....and got up to leave, he gave Baby Sam a treasured old book to play with.  That made me  happy.  Grama Tarly would be proud of her son.

Drogon close-ups, and his particularly expressive spines waving around like a gigantic happy kitten, and his chirpy noises....brilliant special effects, as was his huge blinking eye.  Dragons know!  It is known.

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

That Eastwatch squad assembly was straight out of Joe Abercrombie. He needs to write a fan fic so I can make it my head canon!

I'm a big fan of Joe Abercrombie too. I wish they'd make some of his books into movies/TV shows...I really liked Red Country and also the Shattered Sea series – Half a King, Half the World, and Half a War.

[Minneapple]

3 hours ago, Willowy said:

Sure, but I'm saying he wouldn't be all 'chip on shoulder' about it, especially once he knew the circumstance. He'd hear Dany offered the knee or death, and his stubborn dad wouldn't take it even though he'd changed allegiancies before, so... crispy Tarly. And I'm sure a warlike soldier rigid dude like Randyll would've provided a will of sorts for his wife and daughter. 

What I'm saying is, Sam has way bigger problems and his abusive asshole dad that humiliated him in front of his gal the last time they were together ain't priority one. 

Maybe. But there's a reason they made such a big deal over roasting the Tarlys and a big deal out of not telling Sam yet. I think this will be an issue in the future.

So, upon rewatch I realized that Jon and Gendry have way more chemistry than Jon and Dany, plus they don't have the icky incest factor, so now I am shipping Jon/Gendry. 

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

They  swam clear across to the other end of the lake, away from Danny, in full gear no less.

caught up, rewatch time.

Jamie swam across a lake in heavy armor and with a gold hand? Humph. 

[Neko]

Loved the way nonchalant way Davos introduced Gendry to Tyrion after Gendry hammered two men to death.  "This is Gendry."  Oh, Davos, you better survive this thing.  If you don't, I will be heartbroken.

I don't believe that Cersei is really preggers, but if she is...it would be even more of a statement or whatever for Jaime to be the one who takes her out.  Extinguishing the Mad Queen and their unborn baby as a capper after all the shit they've caused by being incestuous assholes and putting their offspring on the throne?  Goddaman.  That's heavy, as Marty McFly would say.

Don't really care about the Sansa/Arya conflict.  I guess Sansa is a huge bitch by sleeping in their dead parents' quarters, and Arya doesn't trust her at all because murder is the solution for every problem?  I dunno.  I just want to see Littlefinger die at the hands of a Stark.  That's all I want for Christmas this year.

Kind of wondering what the hell happened to Yara, Grey Worm, and Theon.  I guess time will tell.

[Colorful Mess]

Important questions:

-When did Gendry find out about his dad? I can't remember

-Why was he so gung-ho to go North?

-Why did his warhammer look so obviously fake?

-Why are Jon and Gendry so cute together?

31 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I'm a big fan of Joe Abercrombie too. I wish they'd make some of his books into movies/TV shows...I really liked Red Country and also the Shattered Sea series – Half a King, Half the World, and Half a War.

YESSSS give us an Abercrombie series, HBO. Preferably The First Law, but Shattered Sea could be good too. Red Country was a fantastic fantasy Western. He's so good at not taking fantasy too seriously, audiences will love it. He'll probably get picked up at some point after the networks realize fantasy selllz. 

[Goatherd]

Why are all those northern lords still gathered at Winterfell? Don't they have their own houses to manage? Or is that some bi-weekly council meeting?

Count me in for thinking the Wight-on-a-leash plan is ill-conceived. Which of those brilliant strategists really thinks that evidence and logic are the ways to sway Cersei into unselfish actions?

[Cherpumple]

7 minutes ago, Goatherd said:

Count me in for thinking the Wight-on-a-leash plan is ill-conceived

Yeah, it's very strange and really took me by surprise. Why can't Dany do a quick fly-by dracarys of the wight army to weaken their immediate threat, then deal with Cersei, then give her full attention back to defeating the Night King for good? Based on the insane transportation timelines we've seen this season, she could fly beyond the wall, roast a few hundred zombies, and be back in time for tea.

[Happy Harpy]

48 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Important questions:

-When did Gendry find out about his dad? I can't remember

-Melisandre told him on the boat to Dragonstone.

[arjumand]

6 hours ago, mac123x said:

My eyes rolled out of my head, across the floor, and into the dog's water bowl with that one.  Just kidding - I don't own a dog.  At this point I have to completely lay aside any characterization of Jaime from the books because other than being a blond Lannister, Show!Jaime bears little resemblance.  He's never going to turn on Cersei now.

Yeah, my eyes were rolling, too. And that's what my first thought was - no redemption for you, show!Jaime!

 

5 hours ago, Kanner said:

I was ok with the fast pace until this episode.  There were so many good pairings I wanted more time with each of them. Maybe there will be some good convo during the hunt. Jon/Jorah about their dads, Gendry/Jon/Hound about Arya, Hound/Tormund about Brienne, Gendry/Jon about Mel, Beric/Jon resurrection, etc.

Jon and Drogon was awesome. And Jon is legitimate. Wow!

The talk with Tyrion and Varys wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, I still don't agree with them though.  I can see Varys' issue with her burning people as just a really bad memory from his time with The Mad King. 

The burning was not that bad either. She gave them a choice and Lord Tarly rejected the Wall option. Dickon basically walked into the fire on his own. It's war. All will suck.

As usual everything Davos is great. 

I love it when Jon is kingly and he had great moments tonight.

Loved the scenes at Eastwatch. Great mix of characters. Can't wait for more of them next week.

The Winterfell scenes didn't bother too much. Finally after so long Littlefinger is being his Littlefinger self.  I definitely think he was somehow behind the unrest of the Lords. I am not crazy about the Sansa/Arya tension but it is more realistic then them holding hands and braiding each other's hair.  I have no doubt though that they will come out on top.

I agree with everything, especially Tormund's wistful "the big woman?" Seriously, Brienne, forget about Jaime. Useless, Cersei-whipped prick. And maybe it's 'too soon' for Jaime, but can't he see the fricking difference between a Queen who defeated him and his men with the weapons available to her, and a Queen who accuses everyone of betrayal, and wants to punish the guy who pushed him out of the way of a dragon? Whatever, Jaime.

 

5 hours ago, Willowy said:

Why would Sam be angry or feel butthurt by his ragingly abusive father being roasted? He's seen and endured far worse and he's made far better/stronger relationships with Jon and Gilly than he ever had with that stiff-necked thistle-head. He may feel a twinge for his brother but it seems Dickon never really protected Sam from his mean dad... so fuck 'em.

[snipped for length]

Beric Dondarrion's voice makes me feel all melty.

Love the rag-tag band of not so merry men, but what is the plan exactly? To sneak up on the dead, then grab one and hightail it outta there? I don't understand their plan but if they pull it off I want them to turn it loose in Cersei's bedroom and watch her smug-ass face FREAK THE FUCK OUT before they charge in and rescue her. 

Tormund Giantsbane is an adorable force of fearless nature Greek god Zeus made flesh. AND he's hilarious. "Did you bring the big woman?"

I was floored... like actually gasped at the beauty with which they are rendering Drogon. He is magnificent, and the way they are framing the shots of him are breathtaking. He had better NOT die. I'm now not so worried about there being poison on the spear as I was before, because Cersei would've gloated about it if there had been.

I'm so angry I have to wait a week for more. So much happened tonight, yet I'm like a bingey Netflix child screaming for the next episode. 

Re. Tarly and son: yes. They made a choice, Dickon didn't have to join his father. The men Jon hanged in Season 6 (on short ropes - so they choked to death instead of a quick neck break) suffered longer than the Tarlys did. Yes, maybe she shouldn't have given them a public ultimatum which she couldn't have walked back, but that's Daenerys's way (I think it's the Dothraki way - she's at least got them to the stage where they're taking prisoners). As she pointed out to Jon, his armies killed thousands when they retook Winterfell. Stannis massacred the wildlings and burned Mance Rayder, yet he was still being called 'Stannis the Mannis' by his fans.

Also, Sam's dad forced him from his home on his 18th birthday, threatening to kill him if he didn't leave and renounce his title. The man threatened to kill him. The only reason he went back there was to try and find a home for Gilly and baby Sam, not because he had any affection for his father.

Oh man, that Drogon scene was fricking amazing. I can't think of anything else to say. Wow.

Re. the mission beyond the Wall. I don't know if it's a good idea or not - I can't decide. I mean, sure, Dany probably needs to see it with her own eyes. Cersei will absolutely not care, even if a wight can be taken South and still be all undead: who's to say that removed from the North it doesn't just fall to pieces? Also, the music over the end credits was White Walker / Night King music, which added to the general "I have a bad feeling about this" atmosphere.

Edited August 14, 2017 by arjumand

[KaleyFirefly]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

YESSSS give us an Abercrombie series, HBO. Preferably The First Law, but Shattered Sea could be good too. Red Country was a fantastic fantasy Western. He's so good at not taking fantasy too seriously, audiences will love it. He'll probably get picked up at some point after the networks realize fantasy selllz. 

I still have to read the First Law series! Especially since Red Country is in a way a sequel to it. I also want to read Best Served Cold. Abercrombie's books are dark but there is so much humor in them, and great dialogue, page-turning plots, and he writes great battle scenes. HBO needs to start on that after Game of Thrones is over, but everyone is missing their weekly fix.

[Miles]

Count me among the people who think Arya should see through Littlefinger's schemes immediatly and kill him before the end of the next episode. Everything else seems OOC at this point.

5 hours ago, vesperholly said:

We are on the same page. I could buy Jon/Gendry sooner than Jon/Daenerys.

I certainly would be on board for that one! Hottest possible pairing left, really.

5 hours ago, Oscirus said:

No he didn't, Rhaegar died before Aerys did.

Doesn't matter. Jon is still in direct line, no matter who died first.

5 hours ago, LanceM said:

Dany's claim comes from being Viserys's heir. Viserys was crowned King on Dragonstone prior to them fleeing to Essos.

Jon's claim would be that he is Rhaegar's trueborn son.

Whose claim is stronger depends on who you ask.  Look back at the war of the 5 kings and who was supporting Renly and Stannis.

Not really. Jon is the legitemate son of the crown prince, so in direct line and a man. Dany is not in direct line, since she is the third born and she is a woman. She would only have a claim when all male heirs are gone.

In the end it really only matters who has the bigger army, but according to the laws Jon's claim is a loooooot stronger than Dany's.

[Constantinople]

The line of succession isn't handed down by God from on high.  There are numerous times in English history where the younger sibling or that sibling's descendants became King or Queen.

It also does no good to point to the current British royal family to prove what should happen in Westeros.  If the line of succession had been followed, the Hanovers/Windsors would never had inherited the throne

There's also no guarantee that the annulment of Rhaegar's marriage would have been accepted as valid by Aerys or society in general had it been disclosed at the time

[Oscirus]

10 minutes ago, Miles said:

Not really. Jon is the legitemate son of the crown prince, so in direct line and a man. Dany is not in direct line, since she is the third born and she is a woman. She would only have a claim when all male heirs are gone.

In the end it really only matters who has the bigger army, but according to the laws Jon's claim is a loooooot stronger than Dany's.

 Night's watch vows, he gave up his right when he took them. His coming back from the dead doesn't put him back in the front of the line.

[KaleyFirefly]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

The line of succession isn't handed down by God from on high.  There are numerous times in English history where the younger sibling or that sibling's descendants became King or Queen.

It also does no good to point to the current British royal family to prove what should happen in Westeros.  If the line of succession had been followed, the Hanovers/Windsors would never had inherited the throne

There's also no guarantee that the annulment of Rhaegar's marriage would have been accepted as valid by Aerys or society in general had it been disclosed at the time

The Iron Throne seems to go to whoever can take it, anyway. Robert Baratheon had no real claim either, and Cersei certainly doesn't, but they took it anyway. And even further back, Aegon the Conqueror took it (well, created it actually) from whoever was ruling Westeros at the time. 

[Oscirus]

13 minutes ago, Miles said:

Doesn't matter. Jon is still in direct line, no matter who died first.

Debatable since he wasn't even born when they both died. 

[Misplaced]

Hi Gendry!  *waves*

Was that "Kneel for No Man" (from Season 5) sorta playing over the end-titles?  

[Miles]

5 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

 

There is that saying that people who have great chemistry on screen have shit chemistry off screen and vice versa. Considering how bad their ceminstry is on screen, they better be f*cking in real life.

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Actually, all the rules of drama suggest that when Dany finds out the LAST thing she'll do is yield because of all the delicious irony of her talking smack about the usurpers all these years and then she ends up one herself. I don't think ANY writer could resist that twist... just just too delicious.

There probably will be some squabble for one episode, but then they'll figure out that they can both have the throne if they just marry and share it.

4 hours ago, Moya the Leviathan said:

Gendry fans: works for us! That is a sexy warhammer.

Dickon fans:  Well, not an awful second choice.

Podrick fans: Booo!

You can be a fan of Gendry and Tripod!

In fact, I said Jon and Gendry were the hottest possible couple left above. I take that back and chaning it to Podrick and Gendry.

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Gendry's a bastard, he's not entitled to jack shit.

Do we forget Ramsay Snow and how fast he became Ramsay Bolton?

26 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

 Night's watch vows, he gave up his right when he took them. His coming back from the dead doesn't put him back in the front of the line.

The Night's Watch vows specifically state that members only serve till their deaths, with all the restrictions that apply. Jon died. He is free and has all his old titles back (and some new ones).

25 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Debatable since he wasn't even born when they both died. 

Not debatable. They could have died a 100 years before he was born and he would still be the heir to the throne.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Miles

[Tesla]

6 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I could be wrong on the scroll since I was watching in real time, not freeze framing. But I swear I saw "Jon" "poison" and Lyssa's signature. 

I didn't pause either, but I saw Sansa's signature.  Waiting for the interwebs to capture it for me in detail. 

[Miles]

4 minutes ago, Tesla said:

I didn't pause either, but I saw Sansa's signature.  Waiting for the interwebs to capture it for me in detail. 

It's the letter Sansa was forced to write way back.

Screenshot none the less: