S04.E08: The Gelato and the Pube

[Ailianna]

7 hours ago, Hannah Lee said:

For example:  I don't buy that Josh would have been to a bar frequently enough that the hot bartender knew his usual drink without him chatting Clare up at least once.

I just figured she noticed what he ordered earlier that night (and he may have ordered more than one--he and Kelsey didn't seem like they were on their first drinks), and noticed he was hot, but didn't actually know him.  And the bar was busy enough she had to do her job and not chase down the hottie.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Hannah Lee said:

blows off when she texts him that she needs to leave, repeatedly (first text was the pre-arranged one, but the rest?)

To be fair, that's pretty common—Charles wanted an out if things were going badly. They weren't, so he didn't need the text. I think he could have told Liza that, but drama.

10 hours ago, Hannah Lee said:

And there is also no way Diana would put up with that, no matter how much she likes Richard.  

I hate how desperate they're making her just to hold on to some guy who's nowhere near awesome enough for her. They have Miriam Shor, FFS. Why are they wasting her so badly? And if Diana and Maggie don't meet by the end of this season, I'll...be really disappointed.

8 hours ago, retrograde said:

I buy they're hot for each other, but I don't buy his declarations of devotion. 

I don't either. And I continue to be squicked out that he's willing to date a very young (as far as he knows) employee.

[gesundheit]

If they're just going to pretend that there are no ethical problems with Charles/Liza that's one thing, but they actually bothered to point out how inappropriate it would be back when she left Empirical and had the mall gig. They can't just ignore it now. Frankly I was embarrassed by his little speech about how she awakened him again after his divorce or something. When he "met" her? Gross. So he started living again the day he met a 26-year-old entry level assistant at the publishing house he runs? Yeah, that happens to a lot of separated men pushing 50 when they meet young women, but it's not really their hearts and minds that are what's livening up.

[bilgistic]

On 8/17/2017 at 3:00 AM, Refresh said:

So nice to see less off the shoulder peasant tops this episode. I know they're the thing now for summer but I'm over them.

Pauline was wearing one at lunch with Liza. At this point, I've decided it's in Patricia Field's contract that she includes at least one per episode.

19 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

To be fair, Liza did offer. He didn't ask her to babysit.

We're supposed to believe that Charles, who undoubtedly has regular evening engagements for work, doesn't have other options for sitters, though?

[HunterHunted]

On 8/17/2017 at 4:04 PM, Claudia Kishi said:

Page 58 was anal. Diana got flustered and said it aloud when Charles interrupted them talking about it. 

22 hours ago, luna1122 said:

it's not edgy, but it is surprising, for Charles. Anal can be.... untidy. Charles seems awfully tidy, like he'd go shower immediately after even regular sex. Maybe they were being just awfully naughty and daring one drunk nite and doing it doggy style and he just....missed. Instant anal. 

I somehow don't see Liza into it either. 

 

22 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I'm not going to google it but didn't it come up with Josh at one point? When he wanted to be her first with something but she ended up getting the tattoo instead? 

 

19 hours ago, rho said:

 

Wait, do we know page 58 was about anal with Charles? Or is it about the guy she ran off with? Or some other story she wrote about? I got the impression that the book was about fighting with Charles and sleeping with other people and/or comparing him to previous exes?

He's hot but I 100% agree with this ^^

 

I've chosen to believe that what is on page 58 is that the Charles character wants anal sex, the Pauline analogue counters that she'll do it if he goes first, and she pegs him. It turns out he's really into it.

[msani19]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I've chosen to believe that what is on page 58 is that the Charles character wants anal sex, the Pauline analogue counters that she'll do it if he goes first, and she pegs him. It turns out he's really into it.

That's far more interesting and I'll join you with that belief. Still nothing to be embarrassed about if that's what it is but it pushes the boundaries a little more. I still wouldn't want the people I employ to know that though, that's a little bit more than co workers like Diane having insight into your personal life.

[Maharincess]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't find Charles attractive in the least. He does nothing for me at all. I'm not into the buttoned up suit wearing kind of guy, but even without that I just don't think he's good looking. 

Every time I look at Josh, all I can think of is the fact that the actor has been married to a lesbian for 9 years and they both sleep with whoever else they want. There's nothing at all wrong with that, but it's just all I think of when I see him. I just wonder how that works. 

I hope Diana finds that spine of hers and kicks Richard's son out. 

[Eri]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:07 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Also the worst: Richard. Your college age son is not a surprise to spring on the girlfriend who was kind enough to let you move in with her because you were so broke that you were living in your office. You don't get to invite sleepover guests to her house, especially without asking her permission ahead of time. And you don't get to act like it's okay for him to leave his sex toys on her sofa either. What made me especially mad was the way he was manipulating her by telling her that she was more compassionate than his ex-wife. GROSS.

Quote

I hope Diana finds that spine of hers and kicks Richard's son out. 

You'll get no argument from me. No empathy, no respect or communication. The moment he told her that he's not going to "shame his son?" and he would've caught my side eye - can this loser just be gone now? I keep waiting for the moment when Diana realises she can do so much better than a narcassistic user with no boundaries and just kick his arse to the curb. Can this be a thing? I want this to be a thing.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Eri

[voiceover]

There's been enough positive feedback on Liza's green shirtdress that I have sworn to pay closer attention during tonight's repeat.  Because I just thought it was bleahh the first time around.

Charles may be buttoned-up old money, but I don't find him prissy, which this suggestion that he looks like he needs to shower right after sex, implies.  If you're gonna go for it up against the bookshelves in your office, then, Purell-ing afterwards, probably not on your mind.

Purcell-ing, sure (rolls on floor laughing at own accidental humor)

eta: 

Weirdness!  Just finished watching the late Friday repeat.  The show was in the same time-allowed slot as Wednesday (36 min), but stuff got cut!!  Sadly, tragically -- Maggie's cooked-chicken threat to the upstairs neighbors: gone!  Charles's speech about his feelings for Liza: gone!

Anyone else notice this, or am I having another stroke?

Edited August 19, 2017 by voiceover

[KLovestoShop]

When I saw Liza in that green dress, all I saw was my old Junior Girl Scout uniform, minus the yellow kerchief and the sash with all the badges.  

Pauline's hair is too yellow and one color.  Totally fake looking. 

I just don't get the whole storyline of the chickens and the pube gelato.   It's like the dialogue was just stuffed in there to take up time.  I love the Maggie character, but I wish she had a better story.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:37 PM, rho said:

Wait, do we know page 58 was about anal with Charles? Or is it about the guy she ran off with? Or some other story she wrote about? I got the impression that the book was about fighting with Charles and sleeping with other people and/or comparing him to previous exes?

Kelsey asked Liza if she had read page 58 and then said that she wouldn't be able to look at Charles the same way. She also said she didn't expect that from Charles because he's so buttoned up.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Outtakes:

 

Clips:

 

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, Eri said:

The moment he told her that he's not going to "shame his son?" and he would've caught my side eye

I think Richard is right not to shame his son for masturbating. However, his son shouldn't be doing on the sofa and leaving his, uh, container in the cushions. That's just rude. Put it in your suitcase or something, dude.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

His son shouldn't be shamed for masturbating, but he should be shamed for his bad hygiene. If you're old enough to use sex toys, you're old enough to clean and store them properly, and also old enough to know you probably shouldn't be masturbating on a stranger's couch where she and others sit on a regular basis. That's what long showers are for. He was also generally messy, she was cleaning up his stuff when she found it. A 20 year old should have better manners when they're a guest. 

 

I hate the Richard storyline altogether. He's a slimeball for getting involved with a patient at all, and he's an even bigger tool for manipulating Diana the way he does. I want her to end the series with someone worthy of her. 

[voiceover]

Diana wasn't Richard's patient.  Her therapist had an office next door.

[HunterHunted]

On 8/17/2017 at 7:20 PM, msani19 said:

It seems that tv and movies (to a lesser extent) are including stories about anal so much more. I don't know how edgy it really is but I kinda just shrug about stuff like that now that I'm older. To each his or her own, if I don't like it, I won't do it. But honestly the way they were over-reacting to "page 58", I said out loud to no one in particular if they are being this over the top and it turns out that the wild side that Charles has is anal sex, this show is going to be super lame. Of course, it was that.

Seriously, writers, the internet could have easily suggested things that are edgy but not inappropriate for network tv if you needed some suggestions. That was lazy. 

I'm so confused about Charles and Liza. What's he all in on? Flirting, making eyes, and not having sex with her? 

One clarification, Younger is a cable show and isn't bound by the same decency standards as broadcast network tv. That said, I'm going to disagree a little bit.  I don't think that there are many sexual kinks that the writers could give Charles to seem edgy, while still remaining a viable romantic lead. BDSM and role playing are so common that they are routinely mentioned on broadcast tv. Others, like foot fetishism are considered not particularly edgy. Things like golden showers are still considered edgy, but they work against Charles still seeming like a romantic prospect. My point is that anal with Charles being the receiver would be edgy, but not necessarily so out there that you couldn't still see him as the romantic lead.

[soapygal]

On 8/18/2017 at 10:46 PM, voiceover said:

 

Weirdness!  Just finished watching the late Friday repeat.  The show was in the same time-allowed slot as Wednesday (36 min), but stuff got cut!!  Sadly, tragically -- Maggie's cooked-chicken threat to the upstairs neighbors: gone!  Charles's speech about his feelings for Liza: gone!

Anyone else notice this, or am I having another stroke?

I bet they sold (advertising) the longer episode for Wednesday but not for the repeat. I bet they didn't have the extra time so they trimmed it. 

[soapygal]

19 minutes ago, soapygal said:

I bet they sold (advertising) the longer episode for Wednesday but not for the repeat. I bet they didn't have the extra time so they trimmed it. 

Yep. Here is an article I found about first tun episodes being longer.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/younger-season-4-premiere-darren-star-1202479023/

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/18/2017 at 1:27 PM, gesundheit said:

If they're just going to pretend that there are no ethical problems with Charles/Liza that's one thing, but they actually bothered to point out how inappropriate it would be back when she left Empirical and had the mall gig. They can't just ignore it now. Frankly I was embarrassed by his little speech about how she awakened him again after his divorce or something. When he "met" her? Gross. So he started living again the day he met a 26-year-old entry level assistant at the publishing house he runs? Yeah, that happens to a lot of separated men pushing 50 when they meet young women, but it's not really their hearts and minds that are what's livening up.

I just got back from vacation and wow, this board is amazing this week!

What I have to say about the way Charles is acting is some old "wisdom" from back in the SATC days - That Liza is the woman that will get him over his divorce and ready for the REAL love of his life.  There's no way he's living in reality with being so into her at this point as to say those kinds of things.  He's confused and not over his ex yet.  He's leading her on but watch out Liza, he's going to pull a 180 on you!!  I saw that right away!  I never trust men that profess disproportionate love and devotion to you after what is technically not much relationship at all.  Plus there's the fact that he thinks she's so much younger than him AND she's a subordinate.  What I would say is that he's thinking with his "little head" at this point.  I wouldn't put it past him to run back to his ex somewhere along the line.  He just showed me he's not ready for a relationship AT ALL yet, which is too bad because I rather liked him and Liza together. 

I also hate the fact that the show is making Charles so boring.  Even page 58 is not enough to make him interesting - Does Darren Starr think the audience is all a bunch of sexually inexperienced/frustrated old housewives that would find that "racy"?  Geez, does he even have a CLUE what most of us were doing 40 years ago???  I guess he also thinks we're losing our memories and wouldn't catch the lame SATC "roof chicken" plot regurgitation either.  That didn't even fit with the rest of the show.  SATC was more tongue-in-cheek than this show so it fell flat.

[Snarklepuss]

19 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

One clarification, Younger is a cable show and isn't bound by the same decency standards as broadcast network tv. That said, I'm going to disagree a little bit.  I don't think that there are many sexual kinks that the writers could give Charles to seem edgy, while still remaining a viable romantic lead. BDSM and role playing are so common that they are routinely mentioned on broadcast tv. Others, like foot fetishism are considered not particularly edgy. Things like golden showers are still considered edgy, but they work against Charles still seeming like a romantic prospect. My point is that anal with Charles being the receiver would be edgy, but not necessarily so out there that you couldn't still see him as the romantic lead.

They wouldn't have to give him a sexual kink to make him seem more interesting.  He could secretly play in a metal band at night or have a polyamorous past, or even just have a very different non-work personality that he doesn't let out of the box unless he's off and trusts the person.  Or he could have written a racy book with lots of forbidden love and sex that he never lets anyone see (until now), or that he published under a pseudonym.  He could own a hangar full of Cessnas or a garage full of Porsches and Lamborghinis, or volunteer his weekends at a soup kitchen.  Or how about that classic porno magazine collection he could have hidden in a secret closet in his apartment?  Anything would make him more interesting at this point!

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/17/2017 at 11:05 PM, Hannah Lee said:

So disappointed in Richard, and for Diana.  There is no way letting his adult son crash in Diana's apartment with no warning is appropriate, no way a therapist didn't see the fleshlight being left in Diana's sofa as a passive aggressive protest of Richard being with someone other than creepy son's mother.  Also, he was acting like his son was a 15-year old hot house flower, not a 20 year old young man.  And there is also no way Diana would put up with that, no matter how much she likes Richard. 

Yeah, I agree completely with you and everyone on this, but I think it's unfortunately not unlike a lot of parenting today to treat a 20 year old son like a 15 year old hot house flower, which is what is wrong with parenting today, IMHO, and why the son is acting more like a rebellious teenager than a 20 year old.  I also don't believe Diana would put up with that, but if she's that into Richard she may suppress her normal reactions to things like that, only I hope it's only a temporary lapse and she'll come to her senses soon.

[voiceover]

2 hours ago, soapygal said:

Yep. Here is an article I found about first tun episodes being longer.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/younger-season-4-premiere-darren-star-1202479023/

Thanks guys.

I know about "1st run/longer" eps, but what threw me off this time is that my DirecTV blocked out the same amount of time as the premiere of the ep.  Guess it was filled with more ads.  How could they leave out chixmageddon, though?

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

They wouldn't have to give him a sexual kink to make him seem more interesting.  He could secretly play in a metal band at night or have a polyamorous past, or even just have a very different non-work personality that he doesn't let out of the box unless he's off and trusts the person.  Or he could have written a racy book with lots of forbidden love and sex that he never lets anyone see (until now), or that he published under a pseudonym.  He could own a hangar full of Cessnas or a garage full of Porsches and Lamborghinis, or volunteer his weekends at a soup kitchen.  Or how about that classic porno magazine collection he could have hidden in a secret closet in his apartment?  Anything would make him more interesting at this point!

My point isn't that the show had to give Charles a sexual kink to seem interesting. My point is that the show did give him one and that it was anal sex. Our discussion was about whether anal sex or any other fetishes were significantly titillating that it would make everyone at Empirical aflutter. My point was that there are a limited number of sexual kinks that would allow Charles to remain a romantic lead, while still presenting Charles as edgy.

[Snarklepuss]

19 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

My point isn't that the show had to give Charles a sexual kink to seem interesting. My point is that the show did give him one and that it was anal sex. Our discussion was about whether anal sex or any other fetishes were significantly titillating that it would make everyone at Empirical aflutter. My point was that there are a limited number of sexual kinks that would allow Charles to remain a romantic lead, while still presenting Charles as edgy.

I got that, I know that the show is intent on giving him a sexual kink, not you.  I think they could have chosen any number of things to make him more interesting or even shocking, which was the point of my comment.  I wasn't commenting at you so much as commenting near you about them, LOL. ;-)

[dubbel zout]

Richard is recently separated from his wife, right? So him being overaccommodating to his son is pretty standard, IMO. Of course, he could also be a terrible parent. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. And as a therapist Richard should know that, but physician, heal thyself and all that.

[luna1122]

is anal sex a kink?

No, Richard shouldn't 'shame' his song for jerking off, but yeah, be polite when you do so as a guest in someone else's house. Leaving a used sex toy on a sofa is pretty creepy, and he SHOULD be made aware that it's not cool.

[Snarklepuss]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

is anal sex a kink?

No, Richard shouldn't 'shame' his song for jerking off, but yeah, be polite when you do so as a guest in someone else's house. Leaving a used sex toy on a sofa is pretty creepy, and he SHOULD be made aware that it's not cool.

IMO, Anal is not a kink, and ITA that Richard should tell his son it's not cool away from Diana.

What I don't understand is why Richard isn't worried about how Diana will feel about it and just expects her to accept the son and his "toy" in her house and on her furniture.  It just felt creepy to me and even fresh separation guilt is not enough to explain it.

[dubbel zout]

13 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

What I don't understand is why Richard isn't worried about how Diana will feel about it and just expects her to accept the son and his "toy" in her house and on her furniture.

Because he thinks he's being super sex-positive. But he's confusing that with good manners.

[Snarklepuss]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Because he thinks he's being super sex-positive. But he's confusing that with good manners.

It's not just about being "sex positive".  It extends to the fact that he just assumed she should accept the kid in her house in general without even asking her, not just the sex toy thing.  He can be sex positive without being rude and not caring about Diana's feelings about something going on in her own house.  That I just don't understand.

[dubbel zout]

Yeah, I meant "good manners" to cover the entire situation, not just the masturbation stuff.

[MoBee]

Well my picker says Charles is full of it. I suspected that when he arrived home super late looking disheveled there was more than marital woes discussed.  Upon second viewing, seems like Kelsey agrees. 

Even his whole declaration of love looked (and sounded) strange. Why I don't remember Charles showing that many back teeth while speaking?  

Lastly, Liza stating Josh's best qualities (genuine, loyal, kind) could very well continue the exhausting foil between his character and Charles.  Forgive me I know I'm using the word wrong. 

Or maybe I'm just reaching for a more provocative storyline DS!

[Refresh]

On 8/20/2017 at 8:27 PM, Snarklepuss said:

What I have to say about the way Charles is acting is some old "wisdom" from back in the SATC days - That Liza is the woman that will get him over his divorce and ready for the REAL love of his life.  There's no way he's living in reality with being so into her at this point as to say those kinds of things.  He's confused and not over his ex yet.  He's leading her on but watch out Liza, he's going to pull a 180 on you!!  I saw that right away!  I never trust men that profess disproportionate love and devotion to you after what is technically not much relationship at all.  Plus there's the fact that he thinks she's so much younger than him AND she's a subordinate.  What I would say is that he's thinking with his "little head" at this point.  I wouldn't put it past him to run back to his ex somewhere along the line.  He just showed me he's not ready for a relationship AT ALL yet, which is too bad because I rather liked him and Liza together. 

Here's a theory, "26 year old" Liza helps him get over his divorce. The real 40 year old Liza is the real love of his life. 

[Snarklepuss]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:38 PM, MoBee said:

Well my picker says Charles is full of it. I suspected that when he arrived home super late looking disheveled there was more than marital woes discussed.  Upon second viewing, seems like Kelsey agrees. 

Even his whole declaration of love looked (and sounded) strange. Why I don't remember Charles showing that many back teeth while speaking? 

I hear you - I felt the same way about Charles in both cases.  There's something off about it like he's not telling the truth plus he's grasping and his declarations seem out of proportion because he's confused and being pulled in two directions. 

It could be very similar to what just happened to a friend of mine.  Her boyfriend was divorced but said he still has a "work relationship" with his ex writing books.  Then it became apparent to my girlfriend through suspicion that he had more than just a work relationship with the ex.  This is after the guy very strangely and suddenly professed his undying love to my friend out of NOWHERE, told her he wanted her to help him write his book with him, and the kicker, that he was trying to taper off his business relationship with his ex.  Next thing you know, he goes away on a "business trip" with his ex that my girlfriend is SURE is not just business given some of the clues she found, plus the fact that the guy didn't call her for 3 weeks.  No call, no email, no text, etc.  When he got back and finally called her, she told him he was full of it and wanted to know what was really going on.  He got angry at her and hung up and never called her back.

16 hours ago, Refresh said:

Here's a theory, "26 year old" Liza helps him get over his divorce. The real 40 year old Liza is the real love of his life. 

I really like your theory!!!

[Refresh]

5 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

21 hours ago, Refresh said:

Here's a theory, "26 year old" Liza helps him get over his divorce. The real 40 year old Liza is the real love of his life. 

I really like your theory!!!

Thanks! So to expand on it ... they can't have a truly honest relationship while there is still The Lie . But once that's revealed and worked through their real compatibility would come through. Liza holds back with him, for obvious reasons. He holds back with Liza because he thinks she's so young and wouldn't understand his parental duties, separation, responsibilities or 40 year old stuff. Which obvs. she does but can't tell him.

There's then the issue of the employer relationship but to me that's a manageable situation you figure out with an HR person advising. They wouldn't be the first to meet their spouse at work and continue to work with them.

I feel like i talk about them like they're real. I know they're not.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think Richard is right not to shame his son for masturbating. However, his son shouldn't be doing on the sofa and leaving his, uh, container in the cushions. That's just rude. Put it in your suitcase or something, dude.

I think Richard entirely missed the bigger picture in that conversation.  The issue was not that his son was masturbating.  It's that his son had zero respect for Diana or her home. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 7/27/2017 at 8:08 PM, Texasmom1970 said:

I effing love Debi, her cutting the painting with the switch blade best part of this episode.

Never really cared for Josh but I am glad he told Maggie. Hope this is the end of Amy/Montana. She could not even draw a decent outline of the state of Montana!

They really should make everyone else close to Liza aware of her real age and then have them all working to keep it a secret because of their imprint. Something to move the story in a different direction.

 

It could possibly work.  But since Liza lied to the company and produced fake documents, it means a whole lot of stuff has to overlooked if management knows. 

In real life, she would have just made herself seem younger to get the job (people don't even have to go back past 10-15 years on a resume) and then given her real ID to the HR department.  My bosses have never seen my license or known my exact age unless I told them. And if she was supporting her husband's company all this time, then she could have easily said she was an office manager for that company and just not state all the years that she worked for the company (which has now gone out of business). This would put her at about 30ish with recent work experience and no one would need to know her exact age. No one at my job knows mine. It's never come up. 

But then, I'd have no silly summer show to watch. 

On 7/27/2017 at 7:46 PM, Moxie Cat said:

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who thinks the show is coasting. In my mind, they need to:

- Make progress with Liza and Charles. For two years in a row, we've had finales that tease something is really going to happen only to return to episodes that basically only have a meaningful glance or two. Enough! 

- Consider how the main plot of the show could evolve without it simply being about Liza lying to her co-workers about her age. Why can't she be a 41-year-old working with millennials and for the Millenial imprint? And explore how she can do that and the foibles along the way without the ongoing age ruse? 

And finally, romance novels are huge and have been for decades. There are way worse and more embarrassing ways to make a living. Why anyone except the most stuck-up writers would be ashamed to publish one is beyond me. I think the show was wrong on this point.

 

Totally agree that penning a romance novel is honest work. 

This show is so extreme about everything. Like why 26? Why not 30? Or early 30s? I feel like Liza has proven herself so her age doesn't matter - just her work. 

 

On 7/27/2017 at 9:14 PM, interesting said:

I kind of understand why Josh did what he did, maybe he doesn't really like confrontation until it's absolutely necessary?  But, I agree about him being spineless, not wanting to confront Montana/Amy is one thing, but being wishy washy about telling Maggie or not really brings him down in my eyes.  But I'm not that crazy about Josh as a character anyway.

And Sutton Foster makeup is declining, and her wardrobe isn't helping her to look like someone in their late 20's.  I think they may use way too much foundation on her face, I really think she looks young when she and Kelsey were at that retreat with no cellular.  And the clothes they wear are kind of hideous, that lolita-inspired pink dress Kelsey had on was pure straight up ugly, it doesn't matter for me if Marc Jacobs name is on it, it's still pretty horrible.

The clothes are ridiculous and Sutton is attractive but I wouldn't assume she's 26 if I saw her. 

On 8/17/2017 at 9:49 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This especially bothered me because in the previous episode, she talked about how she felt trapped and unfulfilled so to me it sounded like it was more than just "I want to write a book to show my daughters that there's more to life than marrying well." And really, it's okay if you felt unhappy. Being a wife and mom isn't the be all, end all for everyone. You're allowed to want more and you're allowed to do more. Clearly she and Charles were not hurting for money so they could have hired help - a nanny, a cook, a housekeeper, etc. - which would have given Pauline more time to herself so she could write. The kids aren't toddlers so she didn't need to be around 24/7. She could have written during the day while they're in school. She could have rented a work space so that she could write outside the house without the kids coming in every five minutes with something that needs her immediate attention. She could have gone to a writers' retreat for a week or two of solid uninterrupted writing (or just gone out of town to write for a week or two). If her real objective was just to write, she had options (unlike other moms who don't have the luxury of the kind of money that she had access to so they have to work full time, take care of their kids, and then write in the wee hours of the night when everyone is asleep). But that's why I think her "I'm doing this for my girls" excuse is just that - an excuse. She was unhappy with her entire life and she wanted a change so she left. Don't get me wrong - I think everyone should pursue their dreams. I just think that she could have done it in a way that was less hurtful and confusing to her kids, who she claims to be doing this for.

Ditto all of this. Even a summer writing retreat while the kids are at camp. She made it sound like she was doing so much charity work, yet I don't see Charles doing any of those things.  

On 8/17/2017 at 11:04 AM, HunterHunted said:

Kelsey and Liza's fight was in Diana's closet. You can tell because there is a wall of shoes behind them. There is actually an apartment tour. It's really not that big.

 

Lauren was dead right when she called Kelsey a doppelbanger.

I actually liked some of the things Liza wore tonight. ?

I get why Pauline had to unplug from her life to write this book. I also get why just renting a workspace or going to a week long writer's retreat wouldn't have been enough. She's been with Charles for 20 years and in this role of UES wife and mother for 20 years. Her feelings on her life were complicated and twisted up. It's quite likely that it took a month or two just to get her head on straight. That said, she could have rented a place in Sag Harbor, Provincetown, the Berkshires or outside of Philly so that she could come back to the city on the weekends to see the girls. Yes, people from the city visit those places, but when it's not summer they can feel really quiet and like a small town. However, those places are still close enough that Pauline could get back to the city in 4 or 5 hours.

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I get what you're saying about her needing to get into her own life. But I think she still had more options. And I think it still doesn't explain why she'd choose to write a tell-all when she's got kids who will be reading that in a few years. And why her return is all about getting Charles back.  The character is pretty odd, if you ask me. Seems they didn't think this one through. 

On 8/17/2017 at 7:25 AM, Aulty said:

When Charles told Liza that nothing will change between them, I surely expected him to finish it off with asking her out. He wants her badly enough and if he is serious it is about time they spend some quality time with each other.

All of the storylines were a bit weird this week, weren't they?

Richard's son and his sex toys, I mean who leaves something like that lying around on a living room couch? - Richard putting it back because he doesn't want to embarass his son was a nice dad gesture, but inappropriate regarding Diane.

The rooftop douchebags - I second that it was inappropriate to invite them and let them pay what is a hefty bill. The whole scenario was quite forced considering it was for episode only? So the chickens, lying bucketloads of eggs, and a perfectly vibrant garden just sprang up on the rooftop over night? At least we got a great Maggie moment from it.

Not too keen on the irish girl. At the moment the show does not know what to do with their secondary plots while hardly moving Liza's story forward?

and one more thing: Charles having his crush babysit while he meets with his ex? that, to me, was the pinnacle of weird for this episode.

I think it was inappropriate for her to babysit even if he wasn't going to meet his ex. Hire somebody who doesn't already work for you. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 9/8/2017 at 1:52 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

think it was inappropriate for her to babysit even if he wasn't going to meet his ex. Hire somebody who doesn't already work for you. 

He obviously has someone who watches the kids after school and the evenings (since we have seen him at various events at night and working long after everyone else has left the office), so why not ask his regular nanny/babysitter to be there instead of having Liza do it? I don't think that asking a subordinate at work to babysit your kids is appropriate, and that goes double when you're clearly interested in that person. It's all kinds of wrong. 

[Hanahope]

I laughed when the women were walking into the bar and the bouncer asks for ID and Maggie says "really?  Look at my neck."  For the rest of the episode (and the 2 after), I kept looking at the womens' neck.  All of the older women, it was pretty obvious, but Sutton Foster really has a great neck that doesn't show her age at all.  course, it will eventually...

[bilgistic]

Debi Mazar is a miracle in the flesh, though. She hasn't aged in 30 years. She used to hang with Madonna and the club kids back in the 1980s.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I laughed when the women were walking into the bar and the bouncer asks for ID and Maggie says "really?  Look at my neck."  For the rest of the episode (and the 2 after), I kept looking at the womens' neck.  All of the older women, it was pretty obvious, but Sutton Foster really has a great neck that doesn't show her age at all.  course, it will eventually...

When I was in high school, my mom casually mentioned, "Always do the same thing to your neck as you do to your face: moisturizer, sunscreen, toner, everything. When you get older, your neck will show your age even if your face still looks good." My mom is not the kind of person who is obsessed with beauty products so it really stood out to me that she said something like that. A few years later, someone mentioned that the backs of your hands reveal your true age too. 

[Hanahope]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When I was in high school, my mom casually mentioned, "Always do the same thing to your neck as you do to your face: moisturizer, sunscreen, toner, everything. When you get older, your neck will show your age even if your face still looks good." My mom is not the kind of person who is obsessed with beauty products so it really stood out to me that she said something like that. A few years later, someone mentioned that the backs of your hands reveal your true age too. 

Yes, this is true.  I've had people comment about I look younger than I am, but I can see my age in my neck and the backs of my hands (even though I treated them as well, after a certain age, there's not a whole lot you can do to stave off the aging process absent surgery).  I recall one early episode of Younger where an older woman mentioned to Liza about the back of her hand showing that she was not 27, but really 40.

[Gothish520]

On 8/17/2017 at 4:11 PM, allonsyalice said:

Forgive me for being crass, but Charles is six straight minutes in the missionary position, then falls asleep on top of you while you have to finish yourself off.

And im still attracted to him. They do need to flesh him out a lot. Give the man a hobby or something  please 

OMG this is hilarious! 

I just finished the season four finale. I've finally started to warm up to Charles, just a bit. I don't find him all that attractive though. I think it's his mouth. I get a Green Goblin vibe, probably because he reminds me a bit of Willem Dafoe.

[aradia22]

What was that speech about? It's not like Charles started off the series like Mr. Rochester and Liza brought the light back into his life. He's always been a sweetheart.

This Pauline thing is one of the more mature storylines they've done in a while.

It's not as bad as some of the things they wear but I legitimately wondered why Kelsey was wearing her pajamas out to the bar with Josh before I realized it was a dress.

Is it mean if I think Liza picked a girl who isn't much competition? You've got tall, beautiful Sutton Foster and then this little gamine pixie.

Liza was in a normal pretty green dress. So of course Diana's cleavage was ridiculous. Never change, Younger costumers. 

[aradia22]

Quote

This especially bothered me because in the previous episode, she talked about how she felt trapped and unfulfilled so to me it sounded like it was more than just "I want to write a book to show my daughters that there's more to life than marrying well." And really, it's okay if you felt unhappy. Being a wife and mom isn't the be all, end all for everyone. You're allowed to want more and you're allowed to do more. 

I think I'm still on board because the writing has been a little confusing. To me, I still believe her early explanation and my sense was that she just decided to write the book to win Charles back later. That is, she left and then decided to write the book later. Of course, none of this matters because I'm sure they're going to do some character assassination on her soon to clear the way for Liza/Charles.