S03.E07: The Wolf You Feed

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Desperate for an advantage, Dutch goes AWOL and risks a dangerous procedure that connects her to Aneela's memories.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Ah, the beauty of not bothering to sync the synopsis' with the promos.......  "Dutch goes AWOL", so much so that it seems that the Jaqobis know exactly where she's at - meaning that [most likely] so does Turin & The FAPZ, basically - pretty much the whole time.

Not a complaint based on hatred;  just an amused observation.

[johntfs]

She goes AWOL in the metaphorical, not actually absent, not actually needing leave to go wherever she wants sense.

[Kuther2000]

Khlyen and Aneela are the members of the mysterious 10th Qreshi Family that we first heard about in the 1st season. Dutch is a Queen and not a Princess. Dutch is a memory taken out of the Green. What!!! Where did Dutch's memories of her siblings and parents come from?  Where did Khylen come up with her name? How long has Dutch been in the harem that she knew Yardeen was a shameful name? Who are the Yardeen's? Who is the Lady?

[MostlyC]

Who is the Lady?

 

I hope it's not some Hullen version of a Borg Queen.  

I expect more from the writers of this show.

[thuganomics85]

Well, that was bit of a mind-trip.  Dutch is basically some version of Aneela, who was taken from her memories, due to Aneela having some kind of wacky ability to control and bring memories out of the Green.  I think.  I still don't know what the hell was going.  When Aneela first revealed to Khylen that he was her father, I thought for a second they were going to go down the twisted but normal (for sci-fi) "She somehow took his DNA and grew her in a lab" kind of thing, but this clearly.... different.  So many questions, now.

Loved seeing how she and John first met.  And I love that even before they knew their names, John and Lucy always had a snarky relationship with one another.

Dammit, Turin!  I was warming up to your crusty ass, but then you had to go full-blown paranoid and start rounding up the Clensed/former Hullen, because you don't trust them.  Fancy was right to not trust you!  Glad D'Avin kept his word, and has gotten all the allies backing him, including Fancy.  But I wonder what this means for Turin.  I don't see him being locked up for the rest of the season.

Hey, John and Zep are starting to tolerate each other!  Maybe even enjoy each other's company!

Dutch is now understandably a mess, and more or less is letting D'Avin take over running the show.  Hope she gets it together eventually.  D'Avin has been impressing me more and more, but for this to work, I do think they'll end up needing Dutch to be the one to run the show, with John and D'Avin being their normal, awesome selves supporting her.

Finally, I'm quite happy that killing Khylen last season hasn't stop them from still finding ways to get more high quality Rob Stewart action on the show!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Ok, I can ignore a boat load of bullshit & hand-wave even more in order to get my sci-fi fix, but how in the hells can somebody be created with/by a substance - and started out as nothing more than a non-corporeal memory, to boot - but their biology isn't based on the substance it was created from??   A memory created from Hullen, yet is completely human.  No.  There has to be a line somewhere, even in make-believe fantasy land, and this crosses it.  Now if it turns out later that Dutch is a version of semi-Hullen, then ok, but otherwise its too farcical to just accept at face value.

Did get confirmation in that Aneela is 'defective' or 'special' Hullen in that she still feels emotions too much.

Nice hair doesn't always win the day, Turin.  Shitty move to alienate [possibly] the best weapon(s) in your arsenal.  I can't quite fault his view of Dutch only looking to take on Aneela, but got everything else wrong in the process.

I wouldn't mind or care if D'avin took over as the military 'leader', considering his background and ability to boost morale, but since the show seems to view Dutch as the overall main character, then the 'feel' would just be weird.

This was a good character-build episode for Fancy.  Getting a look at what his new reality is like since he's been cleansed.

The 'origin' of John&Lucy and John&Dutch!  We've been waiting 2 & two-thirds years to witness those moments.  The J&L was snarkfully kismet.  Am I misunderstanding - or not remembering it from past mentions - but did Dutch shoot John in the first meeting?  He was wearing the vest this time, and said [shipper](most importantly) "I love you"[/shipper] but he wouldn't let her shoot him again.  I'm inferring that he tried that the first time and she shot him then too (only he wasn't prepared then).

D/D fans shouldn't have been too thrilled with the end.  Doesn't say much when she can't trust him enough to tell him who/what she really is and what she found out - since it will come out at some point.   Yes, she was put through the wringer just prior, but he's 'friend-like-family' if nothing else, and she says she can't tell him what's going on. 

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

The 'origin' of John&Lucy and John&Dutch!  We've been waiting 2 & two-thirds years to witness those moments.  The J&L was snarkfully kismet.  Am I misunderstanding - or not remembering it from past mentions - but did Dutch shoot John in the first meeting?  He was wearing the vest this time, and said [shipper](most importantly) "I love you"[/shipper] but he wouldn't let her shoot him again.  I'm inferring that he tried that the first time and she shot him then too (only he wasn't prepared then).

You're assumption that she shot him the first time seems correct. That's what I also gathered from that conversation. The origin story was great, especially, the dialog between Johnny and Lucy (Monosyllabic words or grunts, & Thief!) and Johnny and Dutch (blow another hole in you so that you can talk with yourself!) were classic.  I like my Syfy with humor.  I must say, Zeph has grown on me. She's still weird, but her answer to Johnny when he asked her what Dutch said, "No, she was talking all foreign. I'm sorry, is that racist?  I think I get racist when I'm bleeding out." was hilarious and she immediately earned a spot on the team. Good episode, but really confusing as far as Dutch's origin story. Aneela seemed to imply that Dutch is a test tube baby made from her own genetic material and Khlyens' and created from her memories? How the Hell does that work?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

You're assumption that she shot him the first time seems correct. That's what I also gathered from that conversation. The origin story was great, especially, the dialog between Johnny and Lucy (Monosyllabic words or grunts, & Thief!) and Johnny and Dutch (blow another hole in you so that you can talk with yourself!) were classic.  I like my Syfy with humor.  I must say, Zeph has grown on me. She's still weird, but her answer to Johnny when he asked her what Dutch said, "No, she was talking all foreign. I'm sorry, is that racist?  I think I get racist when I'm bleeding out." was hilarious and she immediately earned a spot on the team. Good episode, but really confusing as far as Dutch's origin story. Aneela seemed to imply that Dutch is a test tube baby made from her own genetic material and Khlyens' and created from her memories? How the Hell does that work?

At first it got icky by her saying Khlyen was the father, but then I immediately thought she got his DNA - hair/skin/etc sample- somehow to do it.

But then they showed her just submerging herself in her green bath and (to me) it was heavily inferred that pre-Hullen!child Aneela [aka Dutch] was 'born' of just willpower and Aneela's ability to manipulate the Hullen to do her bidding, create a being based off just memory in this case.  Which is why I need some more backstory & factual evidence there, as using Hullen to create a non-goo'd human just rends belief all to hells (imo).

[UNOSEZ]

So I guess we don't get Dutch & Aneela's mom until next season.. Ima just throw out Rachel Crawford.. She's a good actress... Canadian... Black... Age appropriate and has done genre work before. 

[AngelKitty]

I always thought Dutch was some sort of copy of Aneela but I thought Khlyen had reproduced her. Instead it was Aneela herself. We need way more information about, well, everything. How did Khylen get mixed up with the Hullen in the first place? Was Aneela special from birth or was it just that the Hullen "infection" went wrong? My head is exploding with questions and I hope at least some of them will be answered by the end of the season.

[Jacks-Son]

27 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

So I guess we don't get Dutch & Aneela's mom until next season.. Ima just throw out Rachel Crawford.. She's a good actress... Canadian... Black... Age appropriate and has done genre work before. 

You're implying that Dutch and Aneela are sisters and have the same mother. I got the impression that Aneela is Dutch's mother and made her from the genetic material of Aneela and Khlyen using her own memories as a child and the Hullen green to create her.

[AngelKitty]

I think Dutch is a copy rather than a sister, but more a sister than a daughter.

[Princess Lucky]

I've been watching the show from the start, and I've been lurking here, but I just had to write something about this episode.

Dutch and her identity was such a trip. Like all of us, I had considered all the theories. I was still kind of shocked when this episode implied Aneela was her mother. Then, when Zeph shot that down, I figured Aneela had used the green to clone herself. But the truth was much more shocking. Somehow, she was able to manifest a memory? To turn a memory, using the green, into an entire biological organism? Dutch is not exactly an Aneela clone, she's Aneela "herself" but with different experiences. What does that mean? Doesn't it mean that, in a way, Dutch isn't real? Isn't human? Isn't a real person? (I don't know how else to put this)

Aneela created Dutch. Dutch is Aneela. Like... Dutch shouldn't exist. She's some sort of an aberration. The philosophical implications are staggering, should the show choose to dwell on them.

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

You're implying that Dutch and Aneela are sisters and have the same mother. I got the impression that Aneela is Dutch's mother and made her from the genetic material of Aneela and Khlyen using her own memories as a child and the Hullen green to create her.

Technically, Dutch is Aneela. Genetically, if you exclude whatever effect the green/Hullen shit had on her, she does have the same mother as Aneela. Because she is Aneela. Kind of. It's almost as if Aneela had time-travelled and plucked Little Aneela from the timeline and raised her (i.e. herself) in another timeline. Genetically they should be the same. Except for the green. That's why Aneela said Khlyen was the father. I don't know exactly how Aneela did it, and we do know she's into scientific experiments, but if she had used her own Hullen DNA, I don't see a) why she'd need Khlyen's DNA at all and b) how she would produce a human (assuming Dutch is human). I think she genuinely created Dutch out of a memory, somehow. Dutch is the younger, human, pre-Hullen version of Aneela. So Khlyen is the father and they do share a mother.

I think, heh.

Turin stabbed Fancy in the back, and he also stabbed me in the heart. I was rooting for you, Turin! This can't be forgiven.

D'avin has turned into the most relatable character, somehow. The one you can root for. When he stood up for Fancy I cheered (somebody had to!). And when he asked for Fancy's loyalty, and immediately said "and you have mine"? Such a great moment for him and Fancy. Fancy deserved to hear that. And I liked how the episode showed us that D'avin really is a natural leader, when it comes to the military. Tit Whisperer or no, D'av can really be a charming son of a bitch.

6 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

I wouldn't mind or care if D'avin took over as the military 'leader', considering his background and ability to boost morale, but since the show seems to view Dutch as the overall main character, then the 'feel' would just be weird.

I thought that last scene was very smart, and necessary. Dutch can be a leader of a trio of people who worship her (Johnny, D'av and Zeph) but can she really command an army? Does she even want to? She's too much of a lone wolf, too much of a wild card for that. A leader doesn't take off, with no regard for her own life, just to get "answers", leaving everyone else behind. And she really is fighting a personal war, on a different level than everyone else. D'avin is the best choice for a day-to-day commander. Dutch is the special weapon. The one who'll tip the scales with her badassery. But she is not relatable (because she's too special) and, while she can inspire loyalty, she's kind of... better than you. You should look up to a leader, but you should also be able to relate to them. The other fighters (including Fancy) can see themselves in D'avin. There's a camaraderie Dutch can only achieve with those closest to her, and again, only with those who worship her (like Alvis). D'avin is a more traditional leader. Someone you can trust and someone you can listen to and someone you can question. He's more normal. Again, more relatable. I like the fact the show pointed out that difference, and demonstrated how D'avin won them all over by being loyal and keeping his word.

Do I almost ship Johnny and Zeph? Yes, but not as much as I ship Johnny and Lucy. Although I still think Zeph should keep talking about D'avin nipples, because that's hilarious.

It was great to finally see the Johnny/Dutch first meeting. I've never shipped Dutch with either brother (or Alvis, for that matter. Delle Seyah was my Dutch ship of choice before Aneela swooped in), but I think she does trust Johnny more on an emotional level, and D'avin more on a "mission" level. She and Johnny are too alike, in some ways, too emotional, while D'avin seems to be more of a soldier. I enjoyed the different way in which she treated them. It was consistent with the very different relationship she has with each of them, and also consistent with their individual strengths.

I must admit, when I sat down to watch the episode, my first thought was "ooh, I can't wait to see what is happening to Delle Seyah!" I didn't even realize she wasn't shown at all until the episode ended. That's how good it was.

[MissLucas]

Well, another freight-train of backstory coming our way. That was quite something. I liked the reveal about Dutch being from the 10th family (I had forgotten about them). Of course there's still plenty of stuff missing. How did Aneela manage to place Dutch in that harem? And obviously who's the Lady? I don't mind the magic that makes memories materializes - this show has already crossed the line between science and magic so many times.

D'aving being in command of the rebel army makes a lot of sense. Dutch is definitely not a military leader - but as she said herself that's not her part.  I don't think it'll pull focus from Dutch since she's clearly key to the whole fight.

Zeph is definitely growing on me, not that I disliked her but her first appearances were too one-note. Now that the character has been developed a bit I hope she'll stay on Team Lucy.  Not just because she's quirky and fun but also because she brings something to the table this show has been missing: another female character for Dutch to interact and more importantly to like. Dutch's antagonism towards Pawter always rubbed me the wrong way (and now knowing what we know about Dutch's family tree her snarky attitude towards the 'princess' is quite ironic).

Also: cuddling puppies is indeed a great coping mechanism!

[wanderingstar]

I'm tiring of this Aneela storyline. I need it to move along to the confrontation between her and Dutch. Also, where was Delle Seyah? Nice to see Rob Stewart again.

Johnny having to decode Zeph's lockout was cool. Aaron Ashmore is just fun to watch.

I also loved D'Avin and Fancy's scenes. They have a cool and interesting bond.

And how about Alvis telling off Turin ("You're not a soldier, Turin. You're middle management. Give it a rest.")

Next week looks good - I always love a good heist.

[Terrafamilia]

Parthenogenisis, baby! Green catalyzed parthenogenisis. But where did all that extra biomass come from? Aneela didn't exactly pack on the pounds before the stork dropped by.

[marinw]

So the green goo can clone people? Or something? Ok then. 

More Fighting Fancy please. And more of Pree's adorable bartender/boyfriend. 

7 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

But where did all that extra biomass come from? Aneela didn't exactly pack on the pounds before the stork dropped by.

Maybe the green goo is like sourdough starter. Just feed it a little bit and it will self-replicate.

[NorthstarATL]

So Dutch is Wonder Girl? Or Wonder Tot? Basically, back in the Silver Age of comic books, since Amazons were not having contact with males, Wonder Woman was without junior versions, unlike her male counterparts, so the writer/editors had WW's mother magically pluck younger versions of her out of the memories (like home movies) and have them have their own adventures contemporaneously with the adult version! Groovy! Dutch is basically Little Aneela plucked out of HER memories through the Green is what I understood. Wild!

  The rest of the cast is so much fun I often resent the trips into Inner Dutch. This episode was no exception.

[tessaray]

I liked this more than I expected to from initial comments after the episode.  2 thumbs up for Dutch/John meeting, Dutch/Zeph friendship and most especially D'av stepping up to lead the cause. I have no problem with him being the general, leading the troops.  Dutch seems more like the type to lead a rag-tag group of guerrilla fighters than an organized military.  I've never been more pro-D'avin than when he was sticking up for the Cleansed/Fancy. 

I had more problems wrapping my head around Aneela using the goo to make the memory of her younger pre-Hullen self corporeal.  I kind of would have preferred her plucking her younger self from the timeline/AU style with all the necessary scifi technobabble but by the end of the episode, I just decided to roll with it. I'm easy like that with this show. (Any other and I would have been merciless. I know, I know... hypocrisy is alive and well in my corner of the world.)  

About the worst thing I can imagine now is the show not getting renewed. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

With the new direction of D'avin assuming leadership of the 'army', I wonder if they will take a 'divided' path in regards to the war effort.   IOW, set up a big elaborate plan of attack.

IE, D'avin+rebel KJ/Ferran/Scarbacks/hackmods army will be the main frontal assault (and distraction) squad while Dutch+Johnny & The FAPZ will 'sneak in the back door' to go after Aneela & DSK and the higher ranking officers.

Would make sense from a tactical point of view (imo), but I'm no writer or battle-engagement planning specialist.

Edited August 14, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[CaptainTightpants]

What the hell happened to Turin? He used to be a good leader, now it is just yelling and blame. He is absolutely terrible for morale. I'm really sad and disappointed with the direction the character has taken. "War crimey" is a sadly apt description of his actions this episode. I'm glad that Alfred got his ass tossed into the brig.

On the other hand I was very happy to see Rob Stewart again. I am secretly hoping that they figure out how to make a Khlyen-clone out of the green goo.

Although he definitely loses dad points for locking Aneela in solitary until she went completely crazypants. Watching her repeatedly stab herself in the spinal cord to hemorrhage herself a green bath was disturbing. He should have taken a page out of the bartender's book and at least left her with a  couple of puppies. Then she probably wouldn't have been driven to giving birth to herself for some company. 

It does make me very curious to know what she did to merit beeing locked up in the first place. I bet it was awesome ! 

"Sassy britches" is an an outstanding nickname for Lucy, probably the best one ever. 

I guess now we know what the Yardeen's did to bring shame to the family name. Although if it was stricken from the records when Aneela and Khlyen went to play for team green, why would Dutch even have the name? You would think the harem people would have just killed her out of hand. 

Only 3 episodes left this season! It is enough to make me weep into my cornflakes. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by CaptainTightpants

[tessaray]

Does anyone outside Aneela's ship know that DSK is alive (and Hullen)?  

[tennisgurl]

That was so weird, but I totally loved it. Dutch, as it turns out, IS Aneela, just she's an Aneela from an earlier time on her life. Or she's a living memory from the green slime. I think. I'm still not totally sure how this works, but its super interesting. Aneela was so obsessed with her memories, and had so much power with so few outlets for that power, that she made her memory manifest. Definitely a more interesting story than them just being clones or something we have seen a million times in science fiction.

Loved getting the Johnny/Dutch and Lucy/Johnny backstory! Honestly, I'm not trying to let the shipper goggles cloud my vision, but Dutch and Johnny meeting up seemed to be a pretty classic Meet Cute scene, plus we get Johnny telling Dutch he loves her, AND the head-butt of love that almost looked like a kiss! I would be alright with them being just super close friends, I suppose, but damn it, someone tell Hannah and Aaron to stop giving each other Heart Eyes if they don't want me to ship them!

D'Avin has really come into his own as a leader in this one. Loved him standing up for Fancy and the other Cleansed, and seeing all the other factions siding with him. I usually like Turin, but he really crossed a line here. I hope he can have a moment of redemption before the end of the season. He is certainly an asshole, but he's usually a more fun asshole. Its also cool seeing everyone coming together for the big battle. I'm super pumped!

Aneela is still scary and evil and all, but I do feel a bit sorry for her. She is clearly deeply unwell, and being kept in isolation for years probably hasn't helped.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 8/13/2017 at 8:46 PM, CaptainTightpants said:

It does make me very curious to know what she did to merit being locked up in the first place. I bet it was awesome ! 

Don't hold me to this, but I believe it was after Khlyen found her lab full of dead Scarbacks and he reprimanded her for doing it.   Also, I believe it was the same time that she told him that the "[she] green talks to me".  It was after these revelations that he - first cut out her memories - then locked her away to "keep her safe". 

But now I wonder if the memories shown/viewed were out of sequence.  Because if Aneela created her baby self before the memory lobotomy, then why would Khlyen take her back to the same facility as the dead Scarbacks to remove said memories?

I've confused myself thoroughly, but I believe its because of the original things I mentioned that led to imprisoning her in the cube.  And then she bled her bath and created her younger self for company.
 

On 8/13/2017 at 10:38 PM, tessaray said:

Does anyone outside Aneela's ship know that DSK is alive (and Hullen)?  

TAF, Turin, Pree & Gared do.  D'avin saw her, with the experiment he & Zeph did with the green goo and using his memory of DSK to 'spirit walk' to her location, back in 3.4 (TL, TW & TW).  He told D & J about it at the end of episode.  Also, they found out she survived after reviewing that back alley security cam footage [w/ Gared] - which led to the 'spirit walk' attempt(s).

Edited August 15, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Loved getting the Johnny/Dutch and Lucy/Johnny backstory! Honestly, I'm not trying to let the shipper goggles cloud my vision, but Dutch and Johnny meeting up seemed to be a pretty classic Meet Cute scene, plus we get Johnny telling Dutch he loves her, AND the head-butt of love that almost looked like a kiss! I would be alright with them being just super close friends, I suppose, but damn it, someone tell Hannah and Aaron to stop giving each other Heart Eyes if they don't want me to ship them!

Yes, this. 

For supposedly never wanting to go Dutch/Johnny, they [ML/crew] sure go out of their way to make almost every emotionally charged D&J scene extremely shipper-friendly.

Edited August 14, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Adira]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Don't hold me to this, but I believe it was after Khlyen found her lab full of dead Scarbacks and he reprimanded her for doing it.   Also, I believe it was the same time that she told him that the "[she] green talks to me".  It was after these revelations that he - first cut out her memories - then locked her away to "keep her safe". 

But now I wonder if the memories shown/viewed were out of sequence.  Because if Aneela created her baby self before the memory lobotomy, then why would Khlyen take her back to the same facility as the dead Scarbacks to remove said memories?

I've confused myself thoroughly, but I believe its because of the original things I mentioned that led to imprisoning her in the cube.  And then she bled her bath and created her younger self for company.
 

TFA, Turin, Pree & Gared do.  D'avin saw her, with the experiment he & Zeph did with the green goo and using his memory of DSK to 'spirit walk' to her location, back in 3.4 (TL, TW & TW).  He told D & J about it at the end of episode.  Also, they found out she survived after reviewing that back alley security cam footage [w/ Gared] - which led to the 'spirit walk' attempt(s).

Pretty sure Khlyen must've cut out Aneela's memories after he discovered Dutch.  Otherwise those memories wouldn't have been available for Dutch to view.  Plus I think Khlyen was trying to protect both Aneela and Dutch by cutting out the memories from Aneela so that "she" wouldn't know about Aneela's abilities or the existence of Dutch.

[MissLucas]

Yeah, Aneela's memory-wipe took place after Khlyen found Dutch - otherwise Aneela would remember who/what Dutch is (AFAIK she doesn't). Aneela's actions with regards to the Scarbacks would also not have disturbed the Lady as the Hullen seem to be okay with Aneela performing cruel experiments. They are even willing to sacrifice their own in order to keep her entertained. Apparently using the green goo as Replicator is one taboo too far.

[Princess Lucky]

17 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

What the hell happened to Turin? He used to be a good leader, now it is just yelling and blame. He is absolutely terrible for morale. I'm really sad and disappointed with the direction the character has taken. "War crimey" is a sadly apt description of his actions this episode. I'm glad that Alfred got his ass tossed into the brig.

Quoting because it can't be said enough. The earlier instance of him not opening the door to let Fancy go, a few episodes ago, that was the perfect level of "asshole". And Turin even looked remorseful afterwards. But this? This is too far. He'll need to do a hell of a lot if he wants to be redeemed (and I kind of want him to be redeemed, because I used to like him, and even in this episode he made me laugh with "I feel hydrated as shit").

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, Aneela's memory-wipe took place after Khlyen found Dutch - otherwise Aneela would remember who/what Dutch is (AFAIK she doesn't). Aneela's actions with regards to the Scarbacks would also not have disturbed the Lady as the Hullen seem to be okay with Aneela performing cruel experiments. They are even willing to sacrifice their own in order to keep her entertained. Apparently using the green goo as Replicator is one taboo too far.

Wow, that actually didn't occur to me. Aneela doesn't know who or what Dutch is to her. That's (part of) why she's so fascinated (that, and perhaps a bond she feels with Dutch?). That'll be a fantastic reveal. Especially now that we have official proof that Aneela can still feel, unlike the rest of the Hullen.

Aneela and Dutch have been trying to kill each other, but they are the same person. That's... intense.

[marinw]

20 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Aneela and Dutch have been trying to kill each other, but they are the same person. That's... intense.

Consider my mind f*cked.

I don't think the child actress playing Dutch/Aneela looks anything like the adult versions, but she is so adorable I'll allow it.

[tessaray]

21 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

 

TFA, Turin, Pree & Gared do.  D'avin saw her, with the experiment he & Zeph did with the green goo and using his memory of DSK to 'spirit walk' to her location, back in 3.4 (TL, TW & TW).  He told D & J about it at the end of episode.  Also, they found out she survived after reviewing that back alley security cam footage [w/ Gared] - which led to the 'spirit walk' attempt(s).

Ah, I remember now. Thanks. So much going on I completely forgot.  I think I need a flow chart to keep all the pieces of the plot straight.  

[BkWurm1]

On 8/12/2017 at 10:18 PM, NorthstarATL said:

So Dutch is Wonder Girl? Or Wonder Tot? Basically, back in the Silver Age of comic books, since Amazons were not having contact with males, Wonder Woman was without junior versions, unlike her male counterparts, so the writer/editors had WW's mother magically pluck younger versions of her out of the memories (like home movies) and have them have their own adventures contemporaneously with the adult version! Groovy! Dutch is basically Little Aneela plucked out of HER memories through the Green is what I understood. Wild!

  

 

 

Yes!  This is what it has to be.  The green goo didn't create Dutch, because as others rightly pointed out, then Dutch would be Hullen or have some trace of it in her.  But the green goo was like the portal or veil that Aneela stepped through to reach her memories that were so real that she could step back through the veil WITH an exact duplicate of the child she'd been in the memory.  

For all we know the green goo as manipulated by Aneela IS letting her go back in time or to a parallel universe where she plucked the normal, flesh and blood girl out of the timeline.  Or just a perfect copy of the real world. 

Now my question is if the child they've implanted in Dele Saya is another wee Aneela (perhaps minus the crazy that the Hullen can then raise and control, thus no longer having to keep Aneela around) or just a way for the Hullen to have offspring without taking hosts?  I'm thinking more to the later.  Then they would no longer have to worry about conquering the Quad and instead could just sanitize it for their occupancy.    

Edited August 16, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:51 AM, Princess Lucky said:

I've been watching the show from the start, and I've been lurking here, but I just had to write something about this episode.

I, for one, am glad you did. I always enjoyed reading your well thought concise posts, like in the Person of Interest thread, and here is no different. I usually agree with what you post and therefore it saves me from having to do so. Except to say thanks :)

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

On 8/12/2017 at 9:51 AM, Princess Lucky said:

I've been watching the show from the start, and I've been lurking here, but I just had to write something about this episode.

I, for one, am glad you did. I always enjoyed reading your well thought concise posts, like in the Person of Interest thread, and here is no different. I usually agree with what you post and therefore it saves me from having to do so. Except to say thanks :)

Seconded. I enjoy your snarky yet enthusiastic comments on Designated Survivor.

Back to the episode: A woman giving birth to herself is usually one of those time-travel paradoxes that threatens to destroy the Universe.

Here’s a general question that’s bugging me and I don't know what thread to put it in: Is the “J” a single Star System al la Firefly? Or a whole quadrant of space? Because the technology needed to get from planet Star to Star instead of from Planet To Planet is very different, especially if your star system is Trappist 7:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/science/trappist-1-exoplanets-nasa.html?mcubz=1

(This question may be answered in another thread but I can’t find it.)

Edited August 16, 2017 by marinw

[HDJulie]

If Khlyen knew that Yala was Aneela & how she came about then why did he make her kill for him, especially as a child. 

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Here’s a general question that’s bugging me and I don't know what thread to put it in: Is the “J” a single Star System al la Firefly? Or a whole quadrant of space?

 

According to Syfy the "J" is a massive star cluster with "tons" of inhabited planets and moons. Most of the show takes place within the Quad - one dwarf planet (Qresh) plus three moons (Westerley, Leith and Arkyn) but we know about places beyond the Quad: Johnny and D'avin are from Telen (a planet), the Ferran inhabit Ohron (a moon), the planet where The Remnant was hidden never got a name, same goes for the moon where Dutch/Yalena was raised.

As for the technology required to space-travel I've got nothing except some good old fashioned handwavium to offer.

[marinw]

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

handwavium

You should paten that substance! They mine it on the J's many moons.

So the J is a bunch of stars close together? Ok, that works for me. This show is not the "The Expanse".

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, marinw said:

This show is not the "The Expanse".

He! No it isn't hard Sci Fi which means it can play fast and loose with science as long as it sticks to the rules established in-world. Dutch's existence is of course a great challenge - we'll have to see if the show provides more info on the underlying mechanics. I guess it will as it's definitely a huge deal.

[CaptainTightpants]

1 hour ago, HDJulie said:

If Khlyen knew that Yala was Aneela & how she came about then why did he make her kill for him, especially as a child. 

If I'm remembering the conversation correctly, Khlyen purposefully forced Dutch into killing so that she would learn to be emotionless and still keep her own personality intact. I think the description from I-don't-remember-who was "Khlyen broke you in the cradle". 

All this to say that Khlyen expected Dutch to be taken by the Hullen at some point and exposed to the green goo. And he wanted her to be prepared for the destruction of her emotional centres and still be able to function and perhaps maintain some autonomy. So he forced her to become a killing machine without friends or attachments. All in an effort to save her from the invasion of Hullen that he knew was coming to the J. 

[Princess Lucky]

On 17/8/2017 at 0:12 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

I, for one, am glad you did. I always enjoyed reading your well thought concise posts, like in the Person of Interest thread, and here is no different. I usually agree with what you post and therefore it saves me from having to do so. Except to say thanks :)

 

On 17/8/2017 at 1:13 AM, marinw said:

Seconded. I enjoy your snarky yet enthusiastic comments on Designated Survivor.

Aw, thanks guys. Your posts perfectly encapsulates my strange taste, by the way. Person of Interest and Designated Survivor. One might say there's a certain disparity in quality between those two shows (/understatement), and yet here I am, posting about them with the same enthusiasm, heh.

Killjoys would be somewhere in the middle, but it's a full-on genre show which puts it near the top (in my heart, at least).

[The Companion]

On 8/13/2017 at 2:15 PM, tessaray said:

I liked this more than I expected to from initial comments after the episode.  2 thumbs up for Dutch/John meeting, Dutch/Zeph friendship and most especially D'av stepping up to lead the cause. I have no problem with him being the general, leading the troops.  Dutch seems more like the type to lead a rag-tag group of guerrilla fighters than an organized military.  I've never been more pro-D'avin than when he was sticking up for the Cleansed/Fancy. 

About the worst thing I can imagine now is the show not getting renewed. 

I agree. I have been getting a little tired of the story-heavy episodes. However, I thought this was a good episode, and I am enjoying watching everything come together.

I would be heartbroken if this show didn't get renewed. It is the right mixture of silly and sci fi for me. 

On 8/12/2017 at 0:43 PM, Terrafamilia said:

Parthenogenisis, baby! Green catalyzed parthenogenisis. But where did all that extra biomass come from? Aneela didn't exactly pack on the pounds before the stork dropped by.

I suppose the biomass could have also regenerated given the green. 

On 8/12/2017 at 7:51 AM, Princess Lucky said:

Do I almost ship Johnny and Zeph? Yes, but not as much as I ship Johnny and Lucy. Although I still think Zeph should keep talking about D'avin nipples, because that's hilarious.

It was great to finally see the Johnny/Dutch first meeting. I've never shipped Dutch with either brother (or Alvis, for that matter. Delle Seyah was my Dutch ship of choice before Aneela swooped in), but I think she does trust Johnny more on an emotional level, and D'avin more on a "mission" level. She and Johnny are too alike, in some ways, too emotional, while D'avin seems to be more of a soldier. I enjoyed the different way in which she treated them. It was consistent with the very different relationship she has with each of them, and also consistent with their individual strengths.

They definitely threw something in there for the Johnny/Lucy shippers (Johnny said he would kiss her if she had a body, heh). Personally, I don't ship Dutch and Johnny. I appreciate that we have a man and woman who can have a relationship without going there. I kind of liked Dutch and D'av, but I far prefer the team as a unit rather than pairing them off. 

[johntfs]

I kind of "ship" Zeph and D'avin's nipples.

[MissLucas]

That's the ship I'm secretly pulling for - except not just his nipples but the whole man. It could be an interesting pairing but they had to flesh out Zeph a bit more for it to really work. And then there's also the remote possibility that this show is going to pull a 'Legend of Korra' right at the end. Putting all shipping talk aside I think the addition of Zeph to team Lucy was a very good idea because it brought some great new dynamics: the tech-bio antagonism between her and Johnny, the hilarious warrior-nerd exchanges with D'avin and her and Dutch passing the Bechdel test - now don't kill her off!

Edited August 26, 2017 by MissLucas

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

13 hours ago, MissLucas said:

That's the ship I'm secretly pulling for - except not just his nipples but the whole man. It could be an interesting pairing but they had to flesh out Zeph a bit more for it to really work. And then there's also the remote possibility that this show is going to pull a 'Legend of Kora' right at the end. Putting all shipping talk aside I think the addition of Zeph to team Lucy was a very good idea because it brought some great new dynamics: the tech-bio antagonism between her and Johnny, the hilarious warrior-nerd exchanges with D'avin and her and Dutch passing the Bechdel test - now don't kill her off!

Which would be?   (sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I am in the dark as what that refers to)

[MissLucas]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Which would be?   (sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I am in the dark as what that refers to)

Kicking the classic love-triangle established earlier to the dust in favor of a relationship with another female character by the end of the show. Legend of Korra had carefully crafted that relationship which had started as friendship so that it wasn't coming out of the blue.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Kicking the classic love-triangle established earlier to the dust in favor of a relationship with another female character by the end of the show. Legend of Korra had carefully crafted that relationship which had started as friendship so that it wasn't coming out of the blue.

I don't really see anything like that with Zeph and Dutch.  I could see Zeph with either of the Jakoby brothers before I see her with Dutch.  Hell, I could see Delle Seyah Kendry with Dutch, before I saw Dutch with Zeph (since we actually have seen a version of that already).

[Ceindreadh]

On 26/8/2017 at 5:47 PM, johntfs said:

I don't really see anything like that with Zeph and Dutch.  I could see Zeph with either of the Jakoby brothers before I see her with Dutch.  Hell, I could see Delle Seyah Kendry with Dutch, before I saw Dutch with Zeph (since we actually have seen a version of that already).

Sure they could always just have a foursome! 

[Jacks-Son]

8 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Sure they could always just have a foursome! 

What happened to the traditional Boy/Girl; Girl/Girl; Boy/Boy? Now we have Bob, Carol, Ted, and Alice?  Ain't love grand!  Glad I sewed my oats when I turned 90.  ;-)