S05.E08: Guillotines Decide

[Chyromaniac]

On 7/30/2017 at 5:36 PM, seacliffsal said:

I was disappointed as the previews and ads all stated that this episode was so devastating that they could not show snippets from the episode ahead of time.  I think they oversold the episode.

Yeah - I think that promo was a poor choice.  Almost by definition, you can't say that an episode is "so shocking" and then still have it be shocking - at that point the audience is already expecting something to happen.  It's like a movie trailer saying "watch out for the twist ending!"  Well gee, thanks.  I'm not even terribly opposed to spoilers - I just want to be the one making the decision to know, not some promo.  And really, as much as I've enjoyed watching S, I've kind of expected her to bite it at some point anyway (the Sestras - especially Sarah - need to resolve things on their own terms).  So to have her be the one to die here wasn't particularly surprising.  If they really wanted a shock, tease this as the light-hearted "calm before the storm" episode, then bump off a lead character.

Having said that, this was a fantastic episode.  If this had to be S's last stand, taking out Ferdinand feels like an appropriate end.  Otherwise, Rachel continues to grow into a real human being, Helena's story is picking up steam again, and the party actually was a fun moment that felt like a true celebration of these incredible characters.  Plus - it may have been brief, but Allison as Sarah is always a fun clone swap.  Cheers to the show - jeers to the network.

[Captanne]

Leave me Cold:  Kira, Mrs. S, Fernando, Art, any Castor related story character, Clone White Haired Scientist Mom, the entire island of Dr. Moreau (which, I hope had a good contract and agent), Tony the transexual clone, drunken Suddenly Sister.  (More, I'm sure, I just can't think of them right now.)

Makes me check the thermostat because:  Smokin' hot:  Any clone but Tony (but of them both Beth and Sarah leave me lukewarm), Felix, Delphine, neighbour who got strangled by scarf and disposal, DONNIEEEEEEE, Matt Frewer, underworld friends -- both computer geeks and the disco dancehall folks from that part where Sarah has the thing in her cheek and goes dancing, ..... um, I am sure there are more characters I jazzed on but it's hard to separate them from the clones because I keep wanting to just write Helena and keep repeating it.  Oh, almost forgot -- Paul, and Kira's dad Cal.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Captanne

[slaterain]

So I accidentally spoiled myself by clicking in a different orphan black forum before realizing that a new ep had aired. (Completely my bad! hard to keep track since I don't have bbca and have been streaming it). But I am actually grateful and was prepared for it (granted it was fairly telegraphed so maybe it wouldn't have been as bad)!  But it amped up my awareness the whole ep and when/how it would happen - and also made me cherish every gesture and "chicken" endearment. RIP Ms. S :( 

I wanted to shake Sarah as she couldn't give Felix just the evening. Granted she will struggle with not being able to be there to save S and feeling responsible. But how Cosima and Allison came to support him and be his ever changing muse - loved every bit of it! Allison cracked me up when she had to switch into the Sarah persona! It amazes me how many times I have to remind myself that it is all the same amazing Tatiana! Talk about never being type-cast again! 

This ep is everything I want in the final season - random connection to season 1 with the morgue attendant (I identified your body), Sister interactions, FELIX was back!!!, Art was even mixed in well, the comic store dude rapping, Cosima dancing/stomping on Rachel's face, even Felix's real sister who annoyed me at first, the many lives of Ferdinand are over, and even some heartbreak. This was an amazing ep.  

[MaggieG]

On 7/30/2017 at 0:33 AM, HollyG said:

I don't think I've ever seen James Frain in a role other than a psycho villain, killer, etc.  I'm happy that Mrs. S shot him. I wonder what will be next for Rachel. When this is over, I hope the sisters will take her into their clan.

 

On 7/30/2017 at 6:51 AM, NeenerNeener said:

I think the first thing I saw him in was a period drama, The Buccaneers, about American heiresses being courted by impoverished British lords for their fortunes in the late 1800s. Frain was a closeted lord who made his American wife very unhappy with his disinterest in anything but her money. Not quite the balls-to-the-wall evil he's played since, but not a romantic hero either.

The first thing I ever saw him in was Where the heart is. He played kind of a mopey romantic dude who was totally in love with Natalie Portman's character. He wasn't creepy or psycho, so every time I see him play a Ferdinand type I always think "Forney, what happened?!" (His character's name was Forney in WTHI)

[Haleth]

25 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

 

The first thing I ever saw him in was Where the heart is. He played kind of a mopey romantic dude who was totally in love with Natalie Portman's character. He wasn't creepy or psycho, so every time I see him play a Ferdinand type I always think "Forney, what happened?!" (His character's name was Forney in WTHI)

Holy moley!  I've seen that movie countless times and never realized that was James Frain!  He looks so young and... sweet.  And furthermore, until today I never knew Jordan G was not British.

Anyway, between Siobhan and

Spoiler

GoT's Olenna Tyrell

it's been a bad week for badass women.  At least both went out with a parting shot.

Had I been a guest at the exhibition I might have thought it was a bit squicky that almost all of the paintings were of the artist's sister in various incarnations.

[colorbars]

Siobhan's death was telegraphed, but I don't always find that a bad thing. I don't think the show was trying to go for a shocking death - despite how BBC America chose to advertise the episode - and I appreciate that. I'd much rather have an episode that is kind of a tribute to a character, give them a great last episode with meaningful and satisfying moments and development, that is obviously leading to their death, than to just kill a random character at the end of an episode for shock value. Not only is it better after the fact, that the character got to go out on a high note, but it also makes everything in that episode more effective to me. Like Felix's speech was already really great, but knowing Siobhan was totally gonna die that night made it even more touching to me.

But it was after this episode that I really realized how few major characters this show has killed off. Other than Mrs. S, the only other regular character they've killed off was Paul, and I don't think a majority of people really cared all that much about him, and the characters really didn't by then. Anyone else that has died has just been recurring side characters.

Edited August 3, 2017 by colorbars

[Willowy]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

 

The first thing I ever saw him in was Where the heart is. He played kind of a mopey romantic dude who was totally in love with Natalie Portman's character. He wasn't creepy or psycho, so every time I see him play a Ferdinand type I always think "Forney, what happened?!" (His character's name was Forney in WTHI)

Was gonna say this exact thing. I loved Forney.

[partofme]

I was so happy to see Mark and Grace again.   Really sad that they killed her off.  

Helens is my favorite I haven't liked the way she's been sidelined this season, hope she and her bebes will be okay. 

[Willowy]

I was not sad to see Gracie offed (although I despise that woman who shot her). She always makes the worst decisions possible, and every time she shows up there's horrific trouble. She's a millstone around everyone's neck. Good riddance.

Helena's my favorite, too. According to the previews we get to hear her *skree skronk* theme once more.

It's the little things. :P

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/29/2017 at 9:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

What is the over/under, that some of the those paintings that Felix did, will be auctioned off in real life, once the show is done?

The show is already auctioning off a bunch of props from the show on ebay. I haven't seen any of the sestra paintings yet though.

[HollyG]

On 7/30/2017 at 11:26 AM, marceline said:

Seriously. Five seasons in and I still have to remind myself that all these characters are played by the same actress. I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

I know! Last year Tatiana was on an episode of "After the Black". And when I first saw her I thought 'too bad the other actresses aren't there too, esp one that plays Helena'. Really glad I didn't say it out loud! She really does lose herself in those characters and each one is a marvel. She really is remarkable.

[madam magpie]

21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The show is already auctioning off a bunch of props from the show on ebay. I haven't seen any of the sestra paintings yet though.

I saw that Graeme Manson said on Twitter that a couple of the paintings went to special people: the real Cosima has Cosima's, and John Fawcett has Helena's. So maybe they all have been claimed? Cosima Herter posted a photo of hers hanging in her house. Also, they were real paintings done by an artist named Fabrizio Sclocco.

Edited August 2, 2017 by madam magpie

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, madam magpie said:

I saw that Graeme Manson said on Twitter that a couple of the paintings went to special people: the real Cosima has Cosima's, and John Fawcett has Helena's. So maybe they all have been claimed? Cosima Herter posted a photo of hers hanging in her house. Also, they were real paintings done by an artist named Fabrizio Sclocco.

Thanks for sharing that. I'm glad I was wrong in thinking they were digitally edited photos. I watch on an iPad Mini; maybe it was obvious that they were paintings on larger screens?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Behind the scenes: Siobhan's death

[Isazouzi]

On 02/08/2017 at 9:12 AM, madam magpie said:

I saw that Graeme Manson said on Twitter that a couple of the paintings went to special people: the real Cosima has Cosima's, and John Fawcett has Helena's. So maybe they all have been claimed? Cosima Herter posted a photo of hers hanging in her house. Also, they were real paintings done by an artist named Fabrizio Sclocco.

I had no idea there was a real Cosima, so I was like: "One more person of who forgets Tatiana plays all the clones". And now I'm off reading about Cosima Herter!

[Captanne]

For me, the death of Mrs. S was anticlimactic and a kind of "meh" because I never really liked her and I never really liked Ferdinand so -- yeah.  Anyway.

The most interesting bit of death in this episode was Helena's response to Red Headed Shaker girl.  I was fascinated to see the gentle side of the Ukrainian assassin come out -- in the middle of craziness, Helena treated RHSG so gently.  Helena knew her death was inevitable and happening right then and there and she gently caught her eye and shshshshed her to calm her.  It was as if she had a prize heifer who was being bolted in the forehead.  That was an amazing moment for Maslany's performance and for a side she gave us of Helena.  Very revealing.  And RHSG responded to the calming effect if only for that nanosecond that Helena gave her peace.  

Nice job on Maslany's part and the RHSG's actress to respond.

[Lucky Thirteen]

I sorta hoped that she would somehow live. I'm so sad now. 

[Akenta]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:00 AM, HollyG said:

I know! Last year Tatiana was on an episode of "After the Black". And when I first saw her I thought 'too bad the other actresses aren't there too, esp one that plays Helena'.

Be neat to see "After the Black" with each of the characters talking about their experience working on the show and having to deal with each other.  Maybe a DVD extra.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I sorta hoped that she would somehow live. I'm so sad now. 

I had a brief glimmer of hope when Mrs. S said that line about how you never know because women survive more than men do, so she might get lucky... I was like, yes please, save Mrs. S. Alas... not to be.

As others have said, I take comfort in the fact that she took out Ferdinand first, like the badass she is. 

[possibilities]

I did notice that Sarah seemed to feel it when S went missing, and it struck panic in her. It isn't like her to be clingy, and I took it to mean that she felt it when S died, which I found interesting because she had earlier in the season been talking about how she doesn't feel the connection to everyone the way Kira feels. And though S isn't blood or clone, she is family. So it implies that sensing connection may not actually be nature, but nurture, and Sarah suddenly having it is because she's opened up to it, not because of a medical condition but because of her emotional development.

[Katesus7]

Great episode. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to "well, this was obviously going to happen" stuff, so while I thought Siobhan was going to kill other people with the whole gun/note/flower montage, it never occurred to me that she would be the one to die. She was actually one of my favorite characters on this show. Such a calm, matter of fact, badass woman. Loved her and will miss her. You know, for these last two episodes.

One thing I really missed this episode? How epic would it have been for Helena to be part of Felix's show. I mean, I get that she has to have this whole other plot going for her, but seriously, can y'all imagine? Felix: "Just do what comes naturally" Helena: starts eating everything in sight while beating the crap out of someone who looked at her wrong.

[AfterwardsTV]

-We open on a framed photograph of Felix/Sarah. I'm sure that won't come into play.

-Glad to see it not being PT's cronies trying to stick Rachel's eye back in.

-Sarah cheek kissing S, how far she's come with her emotional maturity.

-Why did Art and his ex separate?

-Can someone nuke that board so we get to some more climactic confrontations?

-Helena eating a muffin while interrogating.

-Little bit awkward for Gracie to bring up the father they both escaped from as a reason why Helena probably doesn't trust her. Clunky way to jog memories.

-Why did Bonnie never try to capture Helena? She'd have the motive to avenge her husband and finish his work.

-Funny how Felix doesn't want any sestra shenanigans at an art gallery composed of just paintings of sestras. Felix not self-aware.

-Alison not being able to help herself from lambasting Donnie's clothing is all we get out of that subplot today. 

-Can Adele get drunk and wobble off the screen? The actress must be really cheap to keep paying for no reason.

-Cophine have an understanding, but I still can't understand.

-Colin is back, but with barely any questions because Felix needs an easy prize for all his time sacrifice.

-That Helena journal is getting me seriously pressed that her babies might make it, but not her.

-Gracie caught inbetween two abominations. Surprised she chose her gal pal over the one she can make out with. I don't see why Coady jumped to thinking she's lying considering she came through on a betrayal for Mark before.

-"Identity is a social construct". This live art thing is so up its own ass.

-S always working with Sarah's foes with no second thought.

-Ol' Daddy Greedinand.

-I think that's the first non-flashback Beth reference in Season 5, after Season 3/Season 4 tried to nail this "doing it for Beth" angle into our skulls to focus the sisterhood.

-"Clean floor, dirty heart". Well now we know who Helena scolds as being her family. I'm guessing that was Gracie's first cell phone, and she'd have been better off never having one. :(

-Cold dump Rachel. But credit for not running back to "daddy" just because your other replacement daddy didn't share his eyepad with you.

-Oh come on Ferdinand, you had a perfect chance to put holes in all of them.

-Ambush. Enger knows she can't take Helena herself. Slunt bucket.

-"You're forgiven". That doesn't sound like forgivene-*bang* I'd flinch and close my eyes too. We didn't need another reason to want Enger's guts spilled. >:( RIP Gracie, great personal growth arc. I'm going to riot if your parallel Mud takes your happy ending. They should swerve and let Mark live, but with you dead, he's a goner since there's simply not enough time to cure the Castor line, and the show only seems interested in saving the female clones due to Castor backlash.

-Cosima laugh crying was moderately impactful. Dyad just went boom? How much does the public know? Did the clones just give up their secrecy and normal life?

-London urchins. Your galaxy of women is about to decrease in mass. ;(

-"You can't hurt me". MK said that too, but you got the luck of the draw with that phrase. Even Ferdinand has limits.

-Hell Wizard's rap worked better as noise for the Space promo. At least they remembered to give this minor character a tiny niblet.

-"Not going to make much of a difference in the throat". "She just wasn't that into you". Savage. Noticed on this watch that she did have a back-up plan with the shelf gun.

-Even Sarah felt that shot.

-"Not on your life". How about on yours? Thanks for getting it close enough to her! :D

-Urchins. Chickens. Urchickens. Whichever animal.

-Chilling pause there at the end with her dead eyes. At least she took the bastard that beat her old acquaintance to a bloody pulp down with her.

-Next Time: S funeral, time to see if Clone Club can stop being petty wads and take in Orphan Rachel, Helena stabs her own wrist and has fish knife nightmare flashbacks, and PT is a sarcastic douche about the future being female.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

And seeing Maddy/Neolution Cop and her smirk again reminds me how I hope Art is the one to bring her down.

Oh yes. Please let this be so. I cannot stand her attitude or her smirk. She needs to be taken down. She's cold as ice (which we saw in stark color with how she's treated Art, and now with how she killed Gracie - wow.)

[WatchrTina]

On 8/3/2017 at 4:56 AM, Isazouzi said:

I had no idea there was a real Cosima, so I was like: "One more person of who forgets Tatiana plays all the clones". And now I'm off reading about Cosima Herter!

Here's a link to the story about her:

http://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/orphan-black/video-extras/season-2/episode-01-nature-under-constraint-and-vexed/insider-meet-the-real-cosima

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 8/4/2017 at 10:48 PM, possibilities said:

And though S isn't blood or clone, she is family.

As Kendall's biological daughter, isn't Siobhan related to the clones by blood? 

[Paloma]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:05 AM, Isazouzi said:

So did I hear correctly? They wanted to sell the stuff to be immortal to the 1% so they could live forever (and grow tails if the wanted to) and make the 99% sterile?? Tell me I heard wrong!

That may be what they said, but it doesn't make sense. If the 99% are sterile, who is going to provide all the services that the 1% need after the 99% die without having children? Everything from the food supply to maintaining the infrastructure to little stuff like drycleaning clothes...you need a significant population to do all the jobs that the 1% need to have done  in order to live in comfort or even survive. Not to get too political, but it reminds me of the current anti-immigration sentiment--they want to deport all illegal immigrants and build a wall (and now they also want to cut way back on legal immigration), but most Americans at any income level don't want to pick crops in the hot summer sun or do other difficult, dirty, but necessary jobs.

[possibilities]

5 hours ago, Paloma said:

hat may be what they said, but it doesn't make sense. If the 99% are sterile, who is going to provide all the services that the 1% need after the 99% die without having children?

Clones of the 1%?

6 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

As Kendall's biological daughter, isn't Siobhan related to the clones by blood? 

Thanks for the reminder; I forgot about that connection.

[Paloma]

32 minutes ago, possibilities said:

6 hours ago, Paloma said:

hat may be what they said, but it doesn't make sense. If the 99% are sterile, who is going to provide all the services that the 1% need after the 99% die without having children?

Clones of the 1%?

That's possible, but would the 1% really want to see people who looked just like them doing menial jobs?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A closer look: Felix's art show:

[AudienceofOne]

Talk about bringing it home, OB. That episode was amazing. It's been a long time since I cried because of a TV show but Felix's speech made me tear up and then Siobhan's badass exit pushed me over. So powerful. So emotional. More importantly, this show is giving us such a strong and amazing message about empowerment and just refusing to be the victim no matter how hard the world tries to make you one. You may end up dead but at least you didn't compromise. Such an awesome message for a show about women struggling to control their own autonomy. I just love it. 

On 31/07/2017 at 10:05 PM, Isazouzi said:

So did I hear correctly? They wanted to sell the stuff to be immortal to the 1% so they could live forever (and grow tails if the wanted to) and make the 99% sterile?? Tell me I heard wrong!

Only sour note in the episode for me because that plan is so fucking ridiculous that I'm not sure how we're supposed to take it seriously. I can't believe an entire board of investors gave their money to that screwball off-the-wall Illuminati bullshit. But I guess if they really believed PT Westmoreland was 170 then they're just gullible enough. There's another subtext of this show which is a serious analysis of what the world would look like if there were 1000 Donald Trump's. No wonder we're all fucked.

[Blue Plastic]

On 7/30/2017 at 8:01 PM, possibilities said:

I just don't subscribe to the glory of dying. I'd rather see them triumph without martyrs. It's fiction, so it's possible. S should have armed Rachel, in case F came back. S should have been more careful; why did she waltz right in there and let him shoot her? They can come up with all kinds of weapons, but no kevlar vests? Why does TV think murder makes things better? They knew Ferdinand was brutal and dangerous. They should have had a better plan to deal with that.

Yeah, I feel like they did that for shock value.  It just seems like there were at least a few options for Mrs. S to deal with Ferdinand that could have at least lessened her risk even if not completely eliminate it.  She basically went in there planning to die like there was no way to even try to avoid it.  Maybe they just wanted to show her accept her fate with dignity but IMO it was for shock value.

I got mad at Mrs. S at times but it's really sad that she got killed and yes I cried.  Dammit!

On 7/31/2017 at 5:03 PM, tennisgurl said:

I wish Ira had lived instead.

Me too but oh well.

On 7/31/2017 at 7:05 AM, Isazouzi said:

So did I hear correctly? They wanted to sell the stuff to be immortal to the 1% so they could live forever (and grow tails if the wanted to) and make the 99% sterile?? Tell me I heard wrong!

That seems like a poorly thought out plan on the part of the 1%.  Who is going to serve them once the 99% die out because of not being able to replenish their numbers?!

[possibilities]

14 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Who is going to serve them once the 99% die out because of not being able to replenish their numbers?!

Clones?