S05.E08: Guillotines Decide

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Mrs. S instructs the sisters to take an evening break from snooping to celebrate the opening of Felix's art exhibition. While Felix tries to impress a famous gallerist with the help of his sisters, Sarah still has the feeling that S is hiding something.

BBC America promo:

Space promo:

[bosawks]

I never thought I'd get a little teary over a tv character saying "chickens".....

[Nordly Beaumont]

Pissed off at S for not listening to me when I yelled "Just shoot him!" when she saw Ferdinand. Also pissed off that Felix's big night went so well and will now be a terrible memory.

[madam magpie]

Whoa boy!

[msani19]

The ending...just nope. Nope!! The chickens will be crushed. I know I am. I don't know what else happened.

[dramachick]

Aww man. I was hoping S would make it to the end.

She went out the same way she lived: as a badass.

Rest in power, Siobhan.

[colorbars]

I've had a feeling that was coming all season, and this past week I knew, but boy, it didn't make it any easier to watch.

Of course she knew it was going to happen, and was prepared. I'm assuming that note we saw her write in between the flower arranging and gun loading was a goodbye of sorts, just in case. I hope we get to hear what it said.

I'm glad she got a good final moment with her kids at Felix's party, that was so very lovely. But heartbreaking, knowing the writing was on the wall there.

Happy to see Rachel's redemption continue, and that Siobhan was able to get through to one last lost girl before she died.

And thank fuck she took Ferdinand out with her. Right through the throat, just as she promised. Even got the satisfaction of watching him die first.

Edited July 30, 2017 by colorbars

[possibilities]

I'm really upset.

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, in one scene, the number of former actors from The Tudors just went down to zero!

Since BBC made a big deal of not showing any previews for this, I figured there was going to be some kind of bloodshed, and as soon as we saw all the moments of Mrs. S. and how important she is to Felix (welcome back!) and Sarah, I had a bad feeling she was a goner.  At least she took Ferdinand out with her (and even managed to outlive him for a few seconds), but this was still sad, I can only imagine how this is going to effect Sarah, Felix, and even the rest of Team Clone going forward.  Farewell, Mrs. S.  Great job with everything, Maria Doyle Kennedy.  Enjoyed Ferdinand as a villain, but I'm glad he's finally done for.  At least James Frain is going to be Sarek on the new Star Trek show, so at least he will be taking a break from his normal Evil James Frain character and gets to play someone different (even if cold and unemotional, due to being a Vulcan and everything!)

Oh, yeah, and Gracie got taken out too, but it wasn't as emotional since I only barely remember her (and Mark) again.  Hopefully Helena will find a way to escape their clutches.  And seeing Maddy/Neolution Cop and her smirk again reminds me how I hope Art is the one to bring her down.

Saw a brief glimpse of the Old Alison, when she reacted to Donnie's outfit.  Come back, Alison 1.0.!

So, not only is Westmoreland exposed as a fraud, but Dyad's dirty laundry just got aired too, right?  But since there is still two episodes left, I have to think there will be a major blowback and Team Clone's victory will be short lived.  And I guess Rachel is still a question mark, but she clearly seems to be more and more on their side.... for now.

What is the over/under, that some of the those paintings that Felix did, will be auctioned off in real life, once the show is done?

[HollyG]

I know this was a predicted outcome for Mrs. S, but I just about lost it when Sarah called her Mum, then gave her that little peck on the cheek. I knew that sealed her fate as Sarah rarely showed that sort of emotion for her. Damn. Now for Westmorland. Since Helena is being taken to the island, I believe she will kill him and Coady right after she gives birth, (maybe before). Couldn't happen to a better pair.

Love seeing Felix so happy. I've never trusted Delphine, but I'm glad I was wrong about her. She makes Cosima happy.

I don't think I've ever seen James Frain in a role other than a psycho villain, killer, etc.  I'm happy that Mrs. S shot him. I wonder what will be next for Rachel. When this is over, I hope the sisters will take her into their clan.

Edited July 30, 2017 by HollyG

[Triskan]

From Felix's big speech, to Cosima's (happy) tearful breakdown, from Gracie's terrible dilemna to Helena's always so eerie and menacing presence and words, from Rachel's pain and choice to Ferdinand's end, from Kira meeting Charlotte to the seestras showing off for the gallery and finally to that beautiful, tragic and breakhearting ending, well that was an epic rollercoaster.

The end of that story is shaping up to be magnificent. 

[Gulftastic]

Shed a tear for Mrs S, gave a cheer for Ferdinand. Sad for poor, naive Gracie. What a shit life she had.

I'm so glad this a good show. On a lesser show all the 'the truth is about to be uploaded....' talk would have been leading to a last minute hitch stopping it happening (I'm looking in your direction, The 100....).

I assume the big conclusion will be centred around rescuing Helena and her miracle babies.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Gulftastic

[Wicked]

I was so worried it was going to be Felix that died I was almost ok with it being S. 

[Ravenya003]

They didn't half telegraph Siobhan's death (I knew it was over the moment Sarah kissed her on the cheek) but if you're going to kill off a beloved female character, then this is how you do it: give her a beautiful last day on Earth, and let her take out her killer with her. So glad to see the end of Ferdinand, especially as I wanted a particularly nasty death  for him after what he did to MK. Gasping for breath, watching the serene Siobhan after mocking her for not having another weapon on her... Yeah, if she had to die, I'm glad it happened like this. 

I liked that the final takedown of Neolution was so understated: they focused on Rachel's decision and Cosima's emotional reaction to it, and it worked beautifully. I also liked the parallel between Delphine/Cosima at the laptop - it seemed a deliberate echo of the two of them discovering Cosima was property back in season one. 

Poor Gracie. Despite everything I don't think she deserved that. This probably means it's curtains for Mark too. 

So the last two episodes will probably be the remaining clones and their allies working together to save Helena. I hope they manage one more clone impersonation swap before the end.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Felix gave that speech, I knew that either he or S was going to die before the series finale. Sarah and Felix are going to be devastated by Siobhan's death, but part of me is glad that S got a good death scene, taking Ferdinand out before she died. As much as Sarah criticized Siobhan and butted heads with her, she knows that EVERYTHING Siobhan has done for the past 30 years has been for Sarah, Felix, and Kira. I'm glad that Siobhan was able to see Sarah's growth over the last few years. As crazy as the clone stuff has been for all of them to deal with, it caused Sarah to become more mature, more responsible, and more empathetic, which I'm sure made S very proud.

Even though Ferdinand creeped me out from day one, I have to give him credit for getting out of that meeting alive. He wasn't completely heartless since he couldn't being himself to kill Rachel, but I'm glad that Siobhan killed him after all of the shit he has put various members of the Clone Club through (even before he stomped MK).

What made me sad was that he was so focused on money while all Rachel wanted was her freedom. She was willing to live simply with the money she had stashed away, but that wasn't enough for Ferdinand. She knew that she betrayed the only person who ever loved her in order to expose PT and Neolution, but she was still willing to do it, thanks to Siobhan convincing her.

I never trusted Adele. From the moment she was introduced, I was convinced that at the very least she was hustling Felix (and potentially spying on him for Dyad/Neolution). I'm fine with being wrong about her though (please don't make her a bad guy in the final two episodes!). It was nice to see Felix include her in his speech about his family, and it was very sweet to see Sarah and Adele hug. I think that they will always be a little bit jealous of each other, but I'm glad that they are moving past naked hostility.

I know that earlier in the episode, Kira went to stay with Art, but who was watching Kira while everyone was at Felix's show? Everyone was there - Sarah, Cosima, Delphine, Alison, Donnie, Scott, Hell Wizard, Art, Siobhan. Maybe Charlotte and Kira were at Alison's mom's house with Gemma and Oscar.

Oh, Gracie. At first I was so mad that she was lying to Helena about Mark being dead and having no family left, but when she told Mark that she hadn't found Helena yet, I thought thank goodness that Helena calling her family got through to her and convinced her not to betray Helena. And then stupid Maddy showed up and shot poor Gracie who deserved better than the shitty life she had.

Hee, I loved when old school Alison peeked through her new persona: "Is that what you're wearing?"

It was a nice moment when Art and Sarah stood together and looked at the painting of Beth.

Tatiana does such different voices for each of the clones, but when Rachel let her composure slip and she told Ferdinand that revenge would be exposing PT and Neolution, her voice sounded a lot like Sarah's.

Loved seeing Cosima cry with relief when the exposing documents were sent. I still fear for her health. When Felix made that comment about how she's bounding up stairs now, it made me worry that he just jinxed her into a relapse.

What I loved about Felix's speech was not just that he expressed his love for his mother and sisters, but seeing the other extended family members like Art and Donnie looking so moved and approving.

Edited July 30, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[NeenerNeener]

6 hours ago, HollyG said:

I don't think I've ever seen James Frain in a role other than a psycho villain, killer, etc.

I think the first thing I saw him in was a period drama, The Buccaneers, about American heiresses being courted by impoverished British lords for their fortunes in the late 1800s. Frain was a closeted lord who made his American wife very unhappy with his disinterest in anything but her money. Not quite the balls-to-the-wall evil he's played since, but not a romantic hero either.

Edited July 30, 2017 by NeenerNeener

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And hey, we finally got confirmation from the characters that they're in Canada!

[Paloma]

36 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Even though Ferdinand creeped me out from day one, I have to give him credit for getting out of that meeting alive. He wasn't completely heartless since he couldn't being himself to kill Rachel, but I'm glad that Siobhan killed him after all of the shit he has put various members of the Clone Club through (even before he stomped MK).

What made me sad was that he was so focused on money while all Rachel wanted was her freedom. She was willing to live simply with the money she had stashed away, but that wasn't enough for Ferdinand. She knew that she betrayed the only person who ever loved her in order to expose PT and Neolution, but she was still willing to do it, thanks to Siobhan convincing her.

I'm not sure that Ferdinand and Rachel really loved each other--it always seemed like two sick people being drawn to each other and meeting each other's needs. I was surprised that he didn't kill her given the rage he showed when killing MK--wasn't he at least partially acting out his rage toward Rachel in that killing?

 

42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know that earlier in the episode, Kira went to stay with Art, but who was watching Kira while everyone was at Felix's show? Everyone was there - Sarah, Cosima, Delphine, Alison, Donnie, Scott, Hell Wizard, Art, Siobhan. Maybe Charlotte and Kira were at Alison's mom's house with Gemma and Oscar.

I thought Art said he was taking them to his ex's house and they would be safe there.

43 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was a nice moment when Art and Sarah stood together and looked at the painting of Beth.

I'd forgotten about Beth and thought it was a painting of Sarah. Thanks for pointing that out. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

On rewatch, there were paintings of other clones not actually in the episode -- Krystal, Tony, Beth, and a 2 piece of MK (one piece with just her sheep mask). There was even a painting of Helena, Kira, and Mrs. S.  Charlotte didn't appear to have a painting, but then again she never really spent much time with Felix.

I like that Krystal's painting has "I Love Me" painted in the corner -- which is spot on.

 

To me, James Frain just seems to make good shows even better -- and is sometimes the lone bright spot in otherwise crappy shows (like 'Intruders' from a couple of years back).

[marceline]

4 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

They didn't half telegraph Siobhan's death (I knew it was over the moment Sarah kissed her on the cheek) but if you're going to kill off a beloved female character, then this is how you do it: give her a beautiful last day on Earth, and let her take out her killer with her.

And shallow as this is to say, she looked fabulous. Her hair was flowing, makeup on point, we even got a little tasteful boob action. She went out like a queen.

I really like the Art and Sarah looking at the painting of Beth. We got some nice nods back to how it all began. It was really nice to see Colin again. Felix deserves somebody good and solid.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yes, the "I Love Me" on Krystal's painting totally cracked me up!

I loved that (1) Felix's portrait of Rachel was on the floor and (2) Cosima's reaction to his instruction to "do whatever comes naturally" was to stomp on Rachel's face.

Edited July 30, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Loandbehold]

5 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

I liked that the final takedown of Neolution was so understated: they focused on Rachel's decision and Cosima's emotional reaction to it, and it worked beautifully. I also liked the parallel between Delphine/Cosima at the laptop - it seemed a deliberate echo of the two of them discovering Cosima was property back in season one.

This.

5 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

So the last two episodes will probably be the remaining clones and their allies working together to save Helena. I hope they manage one more clone impersonation swap before the end.

And this. I loved your entire post RAVENYA003, but especially these two paragraphs. 

Goodbye Mrs. S. You wonderful. loving, kick ass woman. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know that earlier in the episode, Kira went to stay with Art, but who was watching Kira while everyone was at Felix's show? Everyone was there - Sarah, Cosima, Delphine, Alison, Donnie, Scott, Hell Wizard, Art, Siobhan. Maybe Charlotte and Kira were at Alison's mom's house with Gemma and Oscar.

Art took both to stay w/ his ex-wife and daughter.

[Brn2bwild]

One question: in the very beginning, when Ferdinand had that doctor "fix" Rachel's eye, did they put the eye camera back into her eye socket??

[marceline]

I love how Felix found a way to have each of the sestras get some time to share the night with him and passing it off as a form of performance art was inspired. I'm just sorry Helena couldn't be there. One of my big issues with this season was with the sidelining of Felix so it felt good that he was finally given a real moment in the sun surrounded by family. Not just the Clone Club but also his proverbial brothers in law: Donnie, Art and Scott. I did get a little annoyed with Sarah for once again focusing on the conspiracy at the expense and rather enjoyed when Adele checked her on that. Sister Nature vs Sister Nurture was an interesting dynamic. This ep really highlighted just how far these characters have come since the beginning. When we first met S she was the villain for keeping Kira away from Sarah and now she took a bullet to the heart to protect them all.

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

did they put the eye camera back into her eye socket?

I don't think so.  That was a Westmorland trick and I don't think we have any reason to suspect that Ferdinand would have access to that technology, nor would it serve any purpose now that Rachel's aware of the technology.  I think what you saw going into the eye was gauze.  I assumed they did that (packing the wound) to help the empty socket heal.  And for the record . . . ew.

Well let me add my thoughts to the cacophony of praise over this episode.  Damn, that was good.  I was sure from the secrecy and the fact that we know this is the last season has someone was going to die, but they did a great job keeping us guessing.

3 hours ago, marceline said:

She went out like a queen

Which makes perfect sense since my first clear memory of Maria Doyle Kennedy was her turn as Catherine of Aragon in"The Tudors."  That was a BAMF ending for Mrs. S and I'm so glad the character got the ending she deserved (and that she took that sick MoFo Ferdinand with her.)

I loved so much about this episode but I think my favorite thing was that they give us a plausible way to have multiple clones attend the party and be acknowledged. Tatiana is just remarkable -- it can't be said often enough.  The whole series is a tribute to her talent but it really shines through when you see multiple clones in the same circumstance (being introduced at the party) and watching their different reactions to the attention.

Bravo!

Edited July 30, 2017 by WatchrTina

[marceline]

19 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Tatiana is just remarkable -- it can't be said often enough.  The whole series is a tribute to her talent but it really shines through when you see multiple clones in the same circumstance (being introduced at the party) and watching their different reactions to the attention.

Bravo!

Seriously. Five seasons in and I still have to remind myself that all these characters are played by the same actress. I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

Or thought that the opening credits seemed too short...

[SomeTameGazelle]

I hadn't yet watched the ep when I started seeing tweets about loss accompanied by photos of or emphasis on Maria Doyle Murray, so I figured I knew what to expect. I was therefore less worried about Felix than I might otherwise have been.

I have to say it felt like a bit of a cheat for Delphine to have amassed all of the evidence offscreen while the clones were bumbling around not accomplishing very much. I guess we will see whether submitting it will achieve the results they expect -- somehow it seemed too easy. If it's going to all the regulatory bodies I would have thought they would have to upload it multiple times using multiple different and frustrating methods. 

[UGAmp]

Man. Between S saying "chickens" with her dying breath and the ducks on This Is Us (not trying to spoil anything), who knew poultry would be so devastating on television in 2017? 

[natyxg]

9 hours ago, Paloma said:

I'm not sure that Ferdinand and Rachel really loved each other--it always seemed like two sick people being drawn to each other and meeting each other's needs. I was surprised that he didn't kill her given the rage he showed when killing MK--wasn't he at least partially acting out his rage toward Rachel in that killing?

I'm not sure that Rachel loved him at all, but I think he was supposed to love her for real, in his own twisted way.  I forget the details at this point, lol, but since after his first appearance I think whenever Ferdinand appeared it had to do with Rachel: with finding her, with rescuing her, etc. And the fact that he role played killing Rachel with Mk (*shudders*) but then later couldn't bring himself to kill her AFTER SHE SENT HIM TO HIS DEATH I think shows that he did love her. Again, in his own twisted way.

Rachel, on the other hand, has never really seemed that into him beyond the sex games they had going, unless memory fails me. Even in this episode,she acknowledged that he was probably the only one who ever loved her, but she didn't speak about loving him, nor did she hint it, I thought.

[omgsowicked]

I don't know if it was special effects editing or if Maria Doyle Kennedy somehow managed to do it but at the end of that long shot of Siobhan's death scene, I swear you could see the light actually leave her eyes. Incredible.

[seacliffsal]

I was disappointed as the previews and ads all stated that this episode was so devastating that they could not show snippets from the episode ahead of time.  I think they oversold the episode.  I am probably the only one, but Mrs. S's death was not as devastating as others had been throughout the series.  Sarah will really stumble without her, but I was really expecting non-stop, edge of the seat suspense or loss due to the promotions.

[TrininisaScorp]

I needed the night to process all of this.  Good grief, what a freaking episode!  

RIP, Mrs. S.  Way to go out like a G and thanks for killing that dick Ferdinand.   She looked beautiful at the party and really resigned to her fate, but I am going to miss her terribly.  (OT) I have to wonder if James Frain is the nicest guy on the planet b/c he gets all the demons out playing these terrible evil and sadistic assholes. (/OT)

Mannnn, I missed Felix.  He brings a warmth to my heart whenever he's around and I LOVED the show he and girls put on for his art.  I love the "different faces" and goddesses he chose for each sister and their reactions, as well as his different cute relationships with each gal.  His speech at the end really got me too.  There is so much love in his heart.  Bless Jordan G for doing such great work!

Like a few of you mentioned, I keep forgetting that we have 1 actress playing these clones.  All these years and I still catch myself wondering whether they get along or have as much fun filming this as it looks.  The party was a nice reason to have a majority of the main cast and supporting players we love (Scott's dancing was adorable) together in a jovial atmosphere.  I hate they are all going to look back at it with a sense of sadness b/c it is last time we see Mrs. S.

I'm so worried for Helena's babies, but they keep underestimating Helena herself.  I can't wait to see her kick some Neo ass.  Poor Gracie too!

I'm a little sad there are only 2 episodes left; I love this show!

[possibilities]

I don't remember Felix's boyfriend at all. What episodes was he in before?

I honestly hate that they killed S. Not thrilled with killing Gracie, either. I'm still traumatized by how MK was murdered.

If they kill Helena, I will never get over it.

I just don't subscribe to the glory of dying. I'd rather see them triumph without martyrs. It's fiction, so it's possible. S should have armed Rachel, in case F came back. S should have been more careful; why did she waltz right in there and let him shoot her? They can come up with all kinds of weapons, but no kevlar vests? Why does TV think murder makes things better? They knew Ferdinand was brutal and dangerous. They should have had a better plan to deal with that.

Disappointed that Mark was basically heartless. Seems like Ira was the only decent Castor.

[Ailianna]

Felix's boyfriend  Collin has actually been around since the pilot.  He is the assistant coroner that Felix met when he went to identify "Sarah's" body (really Beth's) and who Felix hooked up with later.  He was also seen when Felix brought Vic to confirm Sarah was really dead.  He's been seen in several episodes at Felix's place either pre- or post-coital, and I think leaving once or twice.  They were clearly trying to remind people who forgot him, since a lot of the time when he was onscreen he was more dressing for Felix (pardon the pun) than contributing to the plot or being developed.  However, he has been sweet and kind and loving toward Felix whenever we've seen him.  During his introduction to Alison, he pointed out that he had helped Felix identify her--he clearly recognized the face.  And there were a couple arch moments between them on the sestras topic throughout.  I think Collin is going to have some part to play in then end of the series, as he unwittingly was part of the plan which put the whole Clone Club into action.

My sister--who is not enlightened enough to watch this show-kept texting me about bread while I was watching.  It took all my patience not to yell at her for interrupting since I know she didn't know that is what I was doing.  

I think Rachel's story is going where I thought it should after last week--she doesn't want power over others anymore, she just wants power over herself.  Unfortunately, her power seeking was part of what Ferdinand loved.  I think he really truly twistedly loved her, but that doesn't make him good for her.  That last line to Rachel was telling--"I would have spent forever twisting under your heel."  But he never saw her changing or realized that she wanted freedom more than control.  Because for him he liked the power games too much.  I was surprised Rachel thought the guards at the board would be enough to take him--there were only two.  But Siobhan knew better.  I just wish she hadn't given him quite so much open space.  Was there a reason for her to need him or need him to talk?

I thought Helena might be more than the Neos had counted on, but her pregnancy threw her off.  She did fight a lot more than they expected, though.  I felt bad for Gracie, and am pretty sure Mark just lost his reason for caring about the cure, which may give them someone on the inside for Helena's rescue.  Though, knowing her, she will save herself.  And her babies.  I think Gracie and Mark were in their own world of subsistence and celibate love, but then they realized that Mark was getting sick, and they acted out of desperation when Coady threw what seemed to be a lifeline.  I think they were emotionally distanced from the clones, including Helena.  But Gracie seeing Helena and being brought into the family was all it took for her to remember why they chose the sestras in the first place.  

Overall, though I yelled "NO!" at the screen, it was a great episode and while I can't wait for the next two episodes, I also can't believe there are only two episodes left.  

[Ravenya003]

10 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Art took both to stay w/ his ex-wife and daughter.

Which is pretty weird when you think about it. Imagine your ex-husband turning up out of nowhere with two little white girls you've never seen before and being asked to take care of them. It's a pity they didn't utilize Cal - even if the actor wasn't available, they could have shown Sarah or Mrs S talking to him on the phone. 

[colorbars]

7 hours ago, marceline said:

Seriously. Five seasons in and I still have to remind myself that all these characters are played by the same actress. I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

During the Krystal episode, when Tatiana's real life boyfriend ended up being the guy she invited over, I remember my first thought being "Oh, her boyfriend is on the show but he doesn't have a scene with her" before I realized, duh. I think I've always just defaulted Tatiana as being Sarah, since she's the main clone.

 

5 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I have to say it felt like a bit of a cheat for Delphine to have amassed all of the evidence offscreen while the clones were bumbling around not accomplishing very much. I guess we will see whether submitting it will achieve the results they expect -- somehow it seemed too easy. If it's going to all the regulatory bodies I would have thought they would have to upload it multiple times using multiple different and frustrating methods. 

Any other time, I'd assume that wouldn't be enough, but with two episodes left, I'm thinking it probably worked. Especially since Mrs. S died for that. I don't think they'd want her death to be for nothing and have it not even work. But that was only half the battle after all, they still have to deal with getting Helena back and actually physically dealing with Coady and PT still. And I hope they deal with all that in a timely manner, because I want to see some nice clone scenes after it's all said and done.

 

4 hours ago, natyxg said:

I'm not sure that Rachel loved him at all, but I think he was supposed to love her for real, in his own twisted way.  I forget the details at this point, lol, but since after his first appearance I think whenever Ferdinand appeared it had to do with Rachel: with finding her, with rescuing her, etc. And the fact that he role played killing Rachel with Mk (*shudders*) but then later couldn't bring himself to kill her AFTER SHE SENT HIM TO HIS DEATH I think shows that he did love her. Again, in his own twisted way.

Rachel, on the other hand, has never really seemed that into him beyond the sex games they had going, unless memory fails me. Even in this episode,she acknowledged that he was probably the only one who ever loved her, but she didn't speak about loving him, nor did she hint it, I thought.

I'm not sure Ferdinand loved Rachel, as much as he was obsessed with her. In his twisted mind, love and obsession are probably very much the same thing, though. I agree that Rachel's "feelings" for him were much more about him being the only one that really showed her any attention or affection. He was all she had, really.

 

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I was disappointed as the previews and ads all stated that this episode was so devastating that they could not show snippets from the episode ahead of time.  I think they oversold the episode.  I am probably the only one, but Mrs. S's death was not as devastating as others had been throughout the series.  Sarah will really stumble without her, but I was really expecting non-stop, edge of the seat suspense or loss due to the promotions.

Promos that hype stuff up like that always set people up for a disappointment. But I honestly can't think of any other death on this show that has impacted me at all, let alone more than Siobhan's. Other than MK's, just due to how violent it was, nobody else I cared about at all has died. Paul? Could've gone sooner. All the Castor clones? Never wanted them anyways. Susan? I feel like she "died" about three times before she finally did. Ainsley? Meh. Kendall? Barely knew her, mostly just cared about the others pain. Even Beth, I didn't really care about until her flashback episode. For me, Mrs. S is the one that held everyone together, she was this mother figure to all of them, on a show that puts so much emphasis on mother/daughter relationships. I think her dying was more of a punch to the gut for me than any of the remaining characters would have been. But I know everyone's mileage will vary.

[madam magpie]

9 hours ago, marceline said:

Seriously. Five seasons in and I still have to remind myself that all these characters are played by the same actress. I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

I always think that the actresses playing Sarah and Cosima have great chemistry...

[LittleIggy]

I think Mark will go after Virginia when he finds out about Gracie.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I was disappointed as the previews and ads all stated that this episode was so devastating that they could not show snippets from the episode ahead of time.  I think they oversold the episode.  I am probably the only one, but Mrs. S's death was not as devastating as others had been throughout the series.  Sarah will really stumble without her, but I was really expecting non-stop, edge of the seat suspense or loss due to the promotions.

Considering the bulk of the episode was Felix parading around the sisters at his art showing, Mrs. S's death was very anticlimactic. Gracie's as well, since I doubt many were invested in that character.

[Isazouzi]

17 hours ago, marceline said:

Seriously. Five seasons in and I still have to remind myself that all these characters are played by the same actress. I can't tell you how many times I've thought something like, "At least the actress playing Helena gets to have some downtime" or "I wonder if the actresses who play Sarah and Krystal get along in real life." :D

 

8 hours ago, madam magpie said:

I always think that the actresses playing Sarah and Cosima have great chemistry...

During the episode, seeing Rachel with greasy hair, I thought "Wow, Rachel looks a lot like Sarah, I never noticed that". DUH!

 

So did I hear correctly? They wanted to sell the stuff to be immortal to the 1% so they could live forever (and grow tails if the wanted to) and make the 99% sterile?? Tell me I heard wrong!

[Captanne]

Honestly, when Mrs. S died I said to my television, "Bye.  I never liked you that much."  

I never really understood the redheaded girl (name?) or Fernando.

(Growing a tail was a nice touch -- harkening back to that Tail Guy from first season, no?)

Edited July 31, 2017 by Captanne

[MissLucas]

Mrs S Death was so heavily telegraphed that I spent the whole episode waiting for it to happen. It was beautifully written and acted but I must admit that Paul's death had me more upset.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I think Mark will go after Virginia when he finds out about Gracie.

Hey, if Mark can take out Coady while sacrificing himself, I'll be impressed. I don't even care who takes her out at this point. It could be Charlotte, for all I care. 

I thought the whole episode was very well done. Not only did Felix get to be somewhat focused on with his art, but the clones got to be a part of it in some way. I think that having him get them all to swap in and out as his presentation was a neat idea of having them all there. 

I think that they handled Siobhan's death with style. She really went out like a badass. She got to kill Ferdinand first before she died, and that's all I could ever ask for. It was surprisingly heartbreaking, how she asked for her children's picture and got to see that before she went. What a sad death scene, and I bet both Sarah and Felix will be utterly heartbroken when they find her. 

Gracie was far from a favourite character and I didn't like her throughout most of the series, but I do think that she had a very hard life and didn't deserve to go out the way that she did. I remember liking Mark a whole lot more than Gracie, so I feel for him a lot. He clearly loved her and now hasn't had the chance to say goodbye. His choice to turn on the clones (specifically Helena) seemed to be for his love for Gracie, so he could take the cure and have no worries about their future being doomed. Except now Gracie's dead and Mark has no reason for the cure now. 

I do think they overhyped the episode as well through the American promo. The Canadian promo showed the Felix/clones scenes, which didn't give a hint at the ending, while the American promo made it seem like the whole episode was going to be shocking and action-filled. 

I never like Ferdinand or Rachel together, as I never thought that Rachel had any sort of feelings for him while he had a twisted way of loving her. It was clearly doomed from the very beginning. He seemed to love her as much as he could; with him unable to kill her several times and only being able to kill her through her clone, I do think this was the best fitted ending for them. 

I can't believe there's only two episodes left. With Dyad and Neo being exposed, they have to wrap up the endings of the characters themselves, villains included. 

[Kaboom 2.0]

On 7/29/2017 at 11:03 PM, bosawks said:

I never thought I'd get a little teary over a tv character saying "chickens".....

Oh I know, same here. I'm still upset at her death two days later, my consolation is that she took Ferdinand out like a boss and did everything she could to protect those she loved. 

I've felt bad for Gracie in the past and I was sorry to see her killed but all I could think about was how pissed off that bitch partner of Art has made Helena. Even carrying twins she's far more dangerous than ever.

[tennisgurl]

*sniffle* Chickens...

RIP Mrs. S. I was pretty sure that she was going to die at the end of this episode (with her reaching peace with her kids and seeing Felix and Sarah happy at last), but it was still heartbreaking to see. At least it was a great ending for her character, with a lot of great moments with her family, and still going out like a badass, shooting Ferdinand in his stupid throat even after being shot. She even managed to outlive him by a minute or two! Its going to be heartbreaking seeing everyone dealing with that. In many ways, Siobhan was the heart of the Clone Club, and losing her will be a big hole in everyone's hearts. She might have been a bit sketchy at times, but her heart was in the right place, and she loves her family more than anything.

It also really sucks that, after this big success, Felix will probably just remember this as the night his mom died. His art show was so cool, it was so awesome seeing how he used his clone family as his inspirations, even the clones we don't see as much, or ones that have passed away. It was also really nice seeing so much of the cast hanging out and having fun together, and being supportive of Felix. The Clone Sisters and their mom and their various brothers in law. It made me so happy! Felix has been put on the backburner for so long, it was great letting him have his moment in the sun before the show ends. He even gets to reunite with Paul!

Delphine is never someone I have fully trusted, but I'm glad that she is seemingly on the side of good (more or less) now. She and Cosima seem really happy together, and Cosima deserves happiness. I also wasn't sure to trust Gracie, and it turns out, for good reason. I don't really blame her though, she had such a crap life and basically had the spine metaphorically ripped out of her, so its hard to be that pissed off at her. She definitely didn't deserve to die. Mark will probably die soon than. I wish Ira had lived instead.

[shapeshifter]

These last two episodes have made me glad I didn't quit this show. I've quit several shows that had long gaps between seasons or other scheduling hassles that were too great for the narrative and quality of the show to overcome. I never watched the last season of Haven, and I have yet to watch most of this season's 12 Monkeys. So, to anyone still reading this and not watching: Go for it! (IMO) However, reading here it seems that being spoiled kind of saps the impact of this episode, so…

 

ON JULY 29, 2017 AT 11:18 PM, THUGANOMICS85 SAID:

What is the over/under, that some of the those paintings that Felix did, will be auctioned off in real life, once the show is done?

I'm guessing they are actually posters printed from digitally manipulated photos made to look like paintings, which  could mean that the reproductions could be a lucrative fund raising mechanism that we pleblians could support.

 

23 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Which is pretty weird when you think about it. Imagine your ex-husband turning up out of nowhere with two little white girls you've never seen before and being asked to take care of them.

Ha! This reminds me of my then-recent-ex-husband calling me at work for advice when his baby with his new wife was sick. We were still married when she got pregnant, which contributed to my friend/boss's outrage on my behalf that he would dare to ask such a thing — but I was happy to demonstrate my superior parenting knowledge.
Anyway, it's way better than those countless shows on which kid characters never have their off-screen lives explained until they reappear, which is probably done in case they never return.

 

13 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

So did I hear correctly? They wanted to sell the stuff to be immortal to the 1% so they could live forever (and grow tails if the wanted to) and make the 99% sterile?? Tell me I heard wrong

That's what I heard too! Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, that's a pretty accurate metaphor for the excesses of the filthiest of the filthy rich.

[madam magpie]

Psst, @shapeshifter, 12 Monkeys is awesome!! 

Edited August 1, 2017 by madam magpie

[Cranberry]

On 7/30/2017 at 1:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

What is the over/under, that some of the those paintings that Felix did, will be auctioned off in real life, once the show is done?

When I read this, I thought, "I bet each actress will want to keep hers." It's been five years. I'm never going to remember that they're all Tatiana.

[Captanne]

OT:  The movie 12 Monkeys is amazing.

I'm surprised how some characters in this show really lured me in -- and others left me absolutely cold.  It's honestly about half and half of the cast and characters.