S02.E04: Viktor

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jesse pursues a lead and dives deeper into his search for God with Cassidy and we discover more about Tulip's secret past.

[AimingforYoko]

Hitler as a sympathetic figure? Nice try, Preacher. I gotta side with the douchebag on this one. (What's he in hell for?)

That fight was the second best use of "Uptown Girl" to this:

[TigerLynx]

I love that the 180 year old vampire seems to be the sane one of the group.

Also, I have an answer to Tulip's question, "Who would want to shoot at us?"

Me, "Seriously, with the way you and Jesse behave, I'm sure the line is at least a mile long."

Edited July 11, 2017 by TigerLynx

[WatchrTina]

I want to like this show.  I love Graham MacTavish and I'm delighted the show has gone to my home state of Louisiana.  So I really want to like it. But it's just so gratuitously violent.  I played Candy Crush all through the fight scene so I wouldn't have to look.  

And Hitler's the nice guy in hell?  Mmmmmkay.  I'm guessing that the girl in the restaurant in his "worst memory" is going to reject him and he's going to misdirect his anger and feelings of inadequacy at all Jews because of the guy in the yarmulke who bumped his table.  

Yeah, I think I may be done now.

[Lantern7]

"This week on Preacher: Eugene befriends Hitler; Jesse and Cassidy watch God's audition tape; Jesse gets into a fight scored to 'Uptown Girl'." This show, man. This show.

Nice that the residents of Hell wear indicators of when they lived. Caveman in a prison jumpsuit? Niiiiiiiiiice. He probably gets called "Captain Caveman" all the time. Apparently, Hell doesn't have the bureaucracy to figure out that Eugene was a good person and didn't actually die. I had an anime geek moment: seeing the entrance to "The Hole," I thought of Freeza and King Kold waiting there. That was in Dragon Ball GT, so that's not common knowledge.

I like Jesse whipping out The Word to save Tulip . . . or at least trying to save Tulip. If this was HBO, I'd imagine him walking in on Tulip and Viktor having explicit sex. I know that's how Garth Ennis would have handled it.

Frankie Muiz cameo for the win. Horrifying PSA that you can pull off on a show this irreverent. I kinda knew something was up when the lady was gnawing on a bone. I didn't know if that was in the PSA or if the world this show occupies is that fucked up.

Heh . . . the Saint is walking in the bike lane.

[thuganomics85]

So, Hitler is actually a wimp and pushover in Hell?  I guess he isn't as menacing and threatening without his army of Nazis to back him up.  It feels strange though seeing the show trying to make him of all things, somewhat sympathetic.  He's fucking Hitler!  I'm guessing they're going to reveal the end of his "worst day" eventually.

Holy shit, Frankie Muniz!  While he's obviously older, it still crazy how much he looks the same in some ways.  Fun cameo.

Viktor is actually Tulip's husband (and played by the always good Paul Ben-Victor)?  I do not want to see how Jesse handles this reveal.

Cassidy dropping obvious hints to Jesse that he needs to check in on Tulip and Jesse ignoring it, was cracking me up.  Cassidy is somehow the sane one of the trio.

The Saint of Killers has finally strolled into town.  Took him long enough.  

[Snookums]

Called the erstwhile bride bit! Dang, Tulip, have you ever made a good choice?

Glad that they're moving on the various pieces of the "Where is God" mystery without dragging too much ass on it. And how Jesse figured out right away that Fake God had to die to get into Heaven and prepare for the Role of a Lifetime.  Wonder why Heaven had to use a human? Is it blasphemy or something for any of the Heavenly Host? I guess they could ask Elijah to do it but he probably only speaks Aramaic.  

I assume they aren't subtitling Dennis for a good reason--any French speakers on the boards?

Cassidy trying to get Jesse to care what the hell Tulip's up to and Jesse being all "no no must focus on figuring out whose hand that is" bit was great, as was Jesse just Genesis-ing left and right to get to her. Aw, he does care. Plus the whole "my follicles just gave up" was a great little bit. These people do have lives outside their jobs, y'know.

Okay, I get presenting Hitler as a weenie and a wimp who had his good things in his earthly life--that is, fulfilling the wimp's wildest ambitions to force all to fear him--and now he's paying for it, of course, but: I don't feel sorry for Adolf friggin' Hitler, okay? He is literally getting what he deserves and the idea of using the rest of the Infernal Damned to do it is frankly simple logic. Who wouldn't want to beat up Hitler? I am sad that Eugene is being corrupted through no fault of his own; Jesse sent him to hell and there's no way out that he knows of.  Finding out that your personal worst day on eternal repeat is only the basic package and there's no bottom to the pit would scare anybody onto the path of heartlessness.

And now to hum Uptown Girl until I am driven mad.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Snookums

[terrymct]

I think the outcome of Eugene's Hell experience is that he's going to change into a nasty piece of work to avoid The Pit, then once he's finally rescued from Hell he'll be a substantially different person.   Jesse will have to interact with Eugene, dealing with his guilt at having caused Eugene's change as well as dealing with Eugene's actions.

 

(edited because I typed Cassidy but meant Jesse)

Edited July 11, 2017 by terrymct

[ghoulina]

I really don't care for the Hitler/prison story bit. I don't mind catching up with Eugene, but it just feels like a lot of filler, to me. 

I'm nervous about the Cassidy-Jesse-Tulip dynamic. Cassidy clearly still has a thing for her, and I can see him getting all bitter when he thinks HE'S more concerned about her whereabouts than Jesse. I just always remember how jealous Carlos felt, and what transpired because of it, and I worry. I just love the 3 of them together so much. 

I love the story line of fake God being an actor. I had just assumed he was one of the angels. Cassidy claiming to be from Game of Thrones was perfect. 

Not surprised Viktor is Tulip's husband, I saw that coming the minute she wouldn't marry Jesse. Just how many years were those two apart after the Carlos thing???

I did love the fight between Jesse and the torturer, with the dead body getting in the way. It was really silly and fun. 

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, Snookums said:

I don't feel sorry for Adolf friggin' Hitler, okay?

I think this is potentially one of the more fascinating stories in the show.  Preacher is rooted in Judeo-Christian mythology/theology and can be expected to play with a lot of those concepts.  One of the central tenets of Christianity is that God can forgive any sin no matter how bad if sinner has genuine repentance in his heart.  The idea of being "born again" means truly turning away from one's old evils and accepting God's love and forgiveness.  So, what if the tortures and experiences of Hell ending up bringing Hitler to that point?  What if he's really, truly no longer the evil madman that we all know but another person, a person born again?  One thing to note is that Hitler stuck up for both Eugene and the gypsy woman.  

In real life, Hitler despised Gypsies and held the deformed in contempt, so this is a very clear sign that the Hitler in Hell is very different from the one on Earth.

If we accept that Hitler can change, can repent of his sins, doesn't that mean that others in Hell could also repent?  If so, should their punishment still be eternal or is that yet another sign of a universe and a God far less perfect than it (and He) is supposed to be?  Add to that the idea that the punishments in Hell are also fallible, that the system is overtaxed and possibly breaking down.  We've already seen that the forces of Heaven are willing to murder just to get a decent actor to portray God.  What else is breaking down in the machinery that runs reality?

As far as feeling bad for Hitler, consider the idea that this was just some normal-looking guy who was in the episode and did what he did for Eugene and the gypsy woman.  Would we feel bad for him considering what happened?  Probably so.  In which case, if we're going with the idea that this Hitler is a changed person from the one we know, I guess that yeah, I kind of feel bad for Hitler.  This Hitler, anyway.

Edited July 11, 2017 by johntfs

[Eulipian 5k]

I don't see the relevance of the how-many-ever-weeks we will now spend in Hell with Eugene. They can cut to when he gets out now that we know he has to change to survive. And why doesn't Hitler have TONS of supporters in Hell? Half the Aryan Nation dead & Breitbart should be there ready to wash/lick his balls for him.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Eulipian 5k
F! the alt-right

[that one guy]

13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Hitler as a sympathetic figure? Nice try, Preacher. I gotta side with the douchebag on this one. (What's he in hell for?)

I don't know, this is interesting to me as a concept. Hitler's been in Hell for 72 years at this point, I don't believe he lived to be 72. So, if Hell has made him a nicer person? It worked, maybe? This is the second time Noah Taylor has played Hitler as an art student in 1918. He played the same role in Max back in 2002. Obviously he was more age appropriate for the role then, here he's an older man trapped in his youth.  It's interesting that he's playing him more like his beaten-down scientist in "Edge of Tomorrow" than like his sadistic thug Locke in "Game of Thrones."

But it's not really Hitler I'm concerned with . . . it's Eugene. Part of what makes Hitler worse than most people is precisely the treatment of prisoners, isn't it? It's not just the killing of civilians (the US did plenty of that in WWII), it's slaughtering people in villages that had surrendered, shooting, hanging, gassing people who were in camps, in other words in custody, prisoners, helpless. Millions of them. When someone is in your custody it is incumbent upon you to treat them humanely. This is why many people oppose torture and capital punishment but not necessarily war in all cases. It's one thing to harm someone who's trying to kill you or threatening others, and quite another to harm someone who is powerless in your custody.

So it's interesting that Hell subjects people to their own memories rather than tortures them like, say, the New Orleans mob guys. People put themselves in Hell, I guess. Is it an eternal sentence? Or do they let you out once you understand why you're in there? Or reincarnate you? But if it's making Hitler better (and it could hardly make him worse, could it?), for some reason the warden wants it to make Eugene worse? I didn't get the impression that he's the type who would normally kick someone when they're down, although I did get the impression he's a "go along so people will like me" kind of person.

Could Hell make "bad" people better but "good" people worse? I don't know, in my middle age I'm coming to the conclusion that "good" people are a myth anyway. We all have it coming, which is why whether Hitler deserves to have the shit kicked out of him isn't really the point. Eugene shouldn't do it.  I don't feel sorry for Hitler, but I'm worried about Eugene.

What about the mob, though? Jesse just rushed in and killed a guy, not understanding the situation with Viktor, but that guy had just killed guy, etc. But having used his power he knows the cowboy's coming to that location. Does he warn them? Or just bug out and let them all get killed by the Saint?

And what's up with Denis? My guess is, Cassidy knew him 40 years ago or something, and doesn't notice that he's gotten old? All this setup, there's gotta be a punchline. I wish the closed captioning would display the French! I suspect there have been some funny lines aimed at our friends in Quebec.

[nah, I asked Uncle Google. From last ep: ""It's not Denis, it's Denie. What do you want now? You always want something don't you. Perhaps it's nothing, or it'll be different this time. After you come in to my home, you turn my apartment into a pig sty, you eat and drink like crazy and you party all night. And, where are your other prostitutes? I'm too old for this [...]" So, doesn't seem to know he's a vampire, thinks Tulip is a prostitute.  From this one:  "Why all these people in my apartment? Your so selfish. You have been selfish your whole life haven't you? Any why should I endure it?"... so, no clues there. Still hoping he'll turn out to be something, as in "The only bad thing about living in Santa Clara is all the goddamn vampires."]

Edited July 11, 2017 by that one guy

[johntfs]

43 minutes ago, that one guy said:

But having used his power he knows the cowboy's coming to that location.

Actually, he doesn't.  As of two episodes ago Jesse thinks the SoK has been called off.  It's likely one reason he's been relatively free with the use of Genesis lately.

[terrymct]

58 minutes ago, that one guy said:

I don't know, this is interesting to me as a concept. Hitler's been in Hell for 72 years at this point, I don't believe he lived to be 72. So, if Hell has made him a nicer person? It worked, maybe? This is the second time Noah Taylor has played Hitler as an art student in 1918. He played the same role in Max back in 2002. Obviously he was more age appropriate for the role then, here he's an older man trapped in his youth.  It's interesting that he's playing him more like his beaten-down scientist in "Edge of Tomorrow" than like his sadistic thug Locke in "Game of Thrones."

But it's not really Hitler I'm concerned with . . . it's Eugene. Part of what makes Hitler worse than most people is precisely the treatment of prisoners, isn't it? It's not just the killing of civilians (the US did plenty of that in WWII), it's slaughtering people in villages that had surrendered, shooting, hanging, gassing people who were in camps, in other words in custody, prisoners, helpless. Millions of them. When someone is in your custody it is incumbent upon you to treat them humanely. This is why many people oppose torture and capital punishment but not necessarily war in all cases. It's one thing to harm someone who's trying to kill you or threatening others, and quite another to harm someone who is powerless in your custody.

So it's interesting that Hell subjects people to their own memories rather than tortures them like, say, the New Orleans mob guys. People put themselves in Hell, I guess. Is it an eternal sentence? Or do they let you out once you understand why you're in there? Or reincarnate you? But if it's making Hitler better (and it could hardly make him worse, could it?), for some reason the warden wants it to make Eugene worse? I didn't get the impression that he's the type who would normally kick someone when they're down, although I did get the impression he's a "go along so people will like me" kind of person.

Could Hell make "bad" people better but "good" people worse? I don't know, in my middle age I'm coming to the conclusion that "good" people are a myth anyway. We all have it coming, which is why whether Hitler deserves to have the shit kicked out of him isn't really the point. Eugene shouldn't do it.  I don't feel sorry for Hitler, but I'm worried about Eugene.

What about the mob, though? Jesse just rushed in and killed a guy, not understanding the situation with Viktor, but that guy had just killed guy, etc. But having used his power he knows the cowboy's coming to that location. Does he warn them? Or just bug out and let them all get killed by the Saint?

And what's up with Denis? My guess is, Cassidy knew him 40 years ago or something, and doesn't notice that he's gotten old? All this setup, there's gotta be a punchline. I wish the closed captioning would display the French! I suspect there have been some funny lines aimed at our friends in Quebec.

[nah, I asked Uncle Google. From last ep: ""It's not Denis, it's Denie. What do you want now? You always want something don't you. Perhaps it's nothing, or it'll be different this time. After you come in to my home, you turn my apartment into a pig sty, you eat and drink like crazy and you party all night. And, where are your other prostitutes? I'm too old for this [...]" So, doesn't seem to know he's a vampire, thinks Tulip is a prostitute.  From this one:  "Why all these people in my apartment? Your so selfish. You have been selfish your whole life haven't you? Any why should I endure it?"... so, no clues there. Still hoping he'll turn out to be something, as in "The only bad thing about living in Santa Clara is all the goddamn vampires."]

 

I was thinking that Hitler was being tortured with the memory of who he once was and could have been.   Someone mentioned in an earlier comment that maybe this woman rejects him and the rest is history.  I'm not sure if it's her, but something will happen to change him from being a fairly decent guy sitting in a cafe with a lovely woman with whom he might have a future.  His torture is imaging the happy life he could have had with her instead of what he chose to do and the repercussions of that.

[Snookums]

Quote

So, if Hell has made him a nicer person? It worked, maybe?

But isn't the point of Hell to separate the damned soul from God and the chance of salvation, because of the choices they made with their life/soul on Earth? Although I suppose actually feeling regret and shame would be the worst torture of all for someone like Adolf Hitler. So in that sense it worked. And of course a "good person" in Hell would have no hope of their good qualities doing them any, well, good, so all fineness and holiness in a soul would be corrupted and blow away like dust. But in that case why is Hitler still retaining any compassion or empathy, no matter where he attained them? 

Oh well, I suppose looking for logic in Hell is a fool's errand. (One thing I do wonder about though: who decided to organize the place into its present, overcrowded form, and why? "Old School" damnation of darkness, pain, and sexual assault by demons is clearly still around in the Hole, so why bother with anything else? If Hell is the ultimate and perverted democracy, with Eugene, regular-flavor bully assholes, Japanese warriors and Gypsies all on one floor, what's with the layers of personalized punishment?)

[Eulipian 5k]

3 minutes ago, Snookums said:

But isn't the point of Hell to separate the damned soul from God and the chance of salvation, because of the choices they made with their life/soul on Earth?

This. Hell (for Christians) isn't rehab, it's damnation. Forever. Jesus won't be coming back to free the damned from Hell, only from Heaven.. I think that's the whole point of having a Bible and a Jesus.

But of course, the comic "Preacher" is not "gospel" in that, or any sense.

[Rockfish]

To me, the direction they went with Hitler and Eugene in hell is interesting and unexpected (I haven't read the comics). When I realized we were going to see "Hitler's worst day," I had my fingers over my eyes because it would have to be beyond horrific, right? But it wasn't. It seemed banal and reminded the audience that Hitler had been an aspiring artist with talent, who was always bitter about the art world's rejection of him; my memory is his work was considered to have no humanity or emotion, and that's why he didn't make it as an artist, which can be confusing because I believe he mainly did architectural paintings and/or drawings. Anyway, what if the whole point is because he was such a horrible person, all of the torture, murder, slaughter, and destruction of families, communities, and countries, etc. that he was responsible for--atrocities so extreme that they're basically incomprehensible--actually meant nothing to him. No, his worst day wasn't the mass starvation and execution of people nor the horrible experimentation done on Gypsy children and others but the day his artwork was rejected and possibly ridiculed in front of a young lady he fancied.

Also, what if he's beginning to groom Eugene into following whatever his evil intentions are? After all, Hitler couldn't have created the whole Nazi machine if people hadn't believed in and followed him.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Rockfish

[TigerLynx]

I thought all the stuff in Hell was about Eugene.  As in how long would it take Eugene to join in on the bullying, and it didn't take long.  I thought everything was staged with Hitler, the other prisoners, the guards, etc.  Hitler couldn't have murdered millions of people if thousands hadn't been willing to follow him.  And Hitler's followers were monsters to.  They were more than willing to kill and torture, and enjoyed it.  It also wasn't the first or last time in history that mass genocide was committed.

I wonder if Viktor and Tulip were talking and getting along before Jesse showed up.  In the beginning, Viktor told Tulip to walk around, and then talk to him again.  It seemed Viktor didn't like/accept Tulip apologizing to him, but when Tulip started smacking the guards around, Viktor liked her again.

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Rockfish said:

Also, what if he's beginning to groom Eugene into following whatever his evil intentions are?

 

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I thought everything was staged with Hitler, the other prisoners, the guards, etc.

I see where people would think this, but I think it's too easy.  Really, I think it's too comforting.  It lets us fall back onto familiar tropes and beliefs.  Hitler=Evilest  A good person being tempted.  It's all a conspiracy to corrupt Eugene and damn him for real and if he'll just stay good and strong, Jesse and company will save him in the end.

No, I like the story they're telling better.  So, Hitler is "born again" in Hell as a person of compassion and courage attempting to defend the weak.  And God doesn't care.  Or perhaps doesn't notice.  Likewise, a living human has been sent to Hell and again God/Heaven don't care/notice.  What kind of system is that?  What kind of God is that? 

The answer to the first question is, among other things - a system that's falling apart.  If we accept/recognize that what Eugene experienced/learn is right/real, Hell has been deteriorating for a pretty long time.  The "personal Hells" have been going on the fritz more often and for longer.  So, what happens when things break down in other ways?  What happens if the inmates end up taking over the prison?

And if Hell is somehow far worse than we thought it was, what's Heaven like at this point?

I think Eugene is going to end up being our viewpoint character for the metaphysical situation.  Through him we see how bad things are getting in Hell.  It wouldn't surprise me if he somehow ends up getting "rescued" and sent to Heaven only to find that things up there are somehow even worse than they were in Hell.

[Zaku]

3 hours ago, Rockfish said:

It seemed banal and reminded the audience that Hitler had been an aspiring artist with talent,

Virtually every critic says that it was a quite mediocre painter.

[johntfs]

22 minutes ago, Zaku said:

Virtually every critic says that it was a quite mediocre painter.

I remember "The Collection" in Justified Season One where Robert Picardo played a collector and art expert who extremely familiar with Hitler's work and showed certain works thought to be Hitler's were forgeries because the forger "did too good a job on the faces" and was generally poor with the people in his paintings.  The ending to that was really cool, too.

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

I see where people would think this, but I think it's too easy.  Really, I think it's too comforting.  It lets us fall back onto familiar tropes and beliefs.  Hitler=Evilest  A good person being tempted.  It's all a conspiracy to corrupt Eugene and damn him for real and if he'll just stay good and strong, Jesse and company will save him in the end.

I don't expect Jesse and Company to save Eugene, or for Eugene to stay strong.  Like I said, it didn't take very long at all for Eugene to join in on the bullying.  Hitler was evil, and I don't doubt that there are thousands of very evil people in the world.  However, very very few people are as good as they think they are.

I'm still more interested in Tulip/Viktor and Cassidy, than Jesse's search for God.

I hope they show that Hitler's daydream/hell vision is not accurate.  That he sees himself as not being that bad, and whatever happened that day is at fault, not him.  Which might lead to Eugene's memory not being accurate either, they never accept responsibility for what they did which means no atonement/real remorse or forgiveness so they stay in hell forever thinking they don't belong there.

Edited July 11, 2017 by TigerLynx

[ganesh]

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I like Jesse whipping out The Word to save Tulip . . . or at least trying to save Tulip.

I'm not really interested in Tulip's side plot at all even though they cast the awesome PBV for Viktor, and because I feel like this is something that could have easily been avoided; i.e., the tropey characters don't really talk to one another so plot can move. I get that Tulip was handling it herself, but she was in possession of her phone when Cassidy texted her, so I think she could have said she was dealing with something and it's all right. But that was a good voice sequence and the fight in the room with the body was really good. Although SoK pinged him easily now.

Hell is interesting but I didn't think we needed that much time devoted to it. Though it only dragged a little. I'm getting the feeling the show is throwing too much in and then nothing is going to advance at a decent pace at all. 

I do like that they got lucky with the hilarious infomercial which led them to the fake god. How did the casting directors know that the actor would go to heaven? I guess if they had a phone they could check. Which begs the question, how many people did they kill to finally get one up there?

[SoSueMe]

The Hitler thing is intriguing, you guys have some interesting theories.

I am missing Fiore already, though and I wish there was a little more Cassidy happening.

[Sandman87]

The "Hitler has changed" bit didn't really surprise me. I'd seen it before in Larry Niven's Inferno, which did the exact same thing with Mussolini. I wonder if he's going to end up playing the same role.

Poor Eugene. He was going to stick up for Hitler in the holding cell, but then he remembered that the surveillance cameras were watching. Maybe forcing people do evil things that are against their natures is part of the Hell package.

I'm guessing that Ellie is Tulip's daughter.

SoK walked all the way from Texas? I guess he's too cool to hitchhike.

 

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 7:13 PM, TigerLynx said:

Also, I have an answer to Tulip's question, "Who would want to shoot at us?"

Me, "Seriously, with the way you and Jesse behave, I'm sure the line is at least a mile long."

Maybe what she should have said was "Who would want to shoot at us that we haven't already killed?"

 

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Lantern7 said:

I had an anime geek moment: seeing the entrance to "The Hole," I thought of Freeza and King Kold waiting there. That was in Dragon Ball GT, so that's not common knowledge.

Made me laugh. Now I'm going to imagine the Hole as being a nauseatingly saccharine magical unicorn land full of singing elves and fairies.

Had my own anime moment during the fight scene in the torture room when Jesse was using the severed arm. Reminded me of Nagi from Deadman Wonderland fighting Hibana.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 7/11/2017 at 2:20 AM, Snookums said:

Who wouldn't want to beat up Hitler?

Someone who admires his work? Hell should be full of those:

On 7/11/2017 at 9:49 AM, Eulipian 5k said:

And why doesn't Hitler have TONS of supporters in Hell?

Maybe Hitler was purposely put in a unit with people who don't admire him as part of his punishment.

Wonder what Tyler and the others are in for.

Interesting how the voice of the Hell supervisor shifts back and forth.

Wouldn't it be more of a punishment for a resident of Hell sent there for his violent ways to not be permitted to engage in acts of violence? Except for reformed Hitler and normally non-violent Eugene, they all seemed to be enjoying themselves.

On 7/12/2017 at 0:19 AM, Sandman87 said:

I'm guessing that Ellie is Tulip's daughter.

I doubt it. Tulip seemed pretty detached from her. Also, I can't believe that a women who was so distraught about a miscarriage would have no problem leaving behind her daughter. More likely, her step-daughter is furious at having been abandoned, and at the pain she knows Tulip caused her father.

Edited July 17, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Snookums]

Quote

Interesting how the voice of the Hell supervisor shifts back and forth.

I really liked that bit. How under the grey, institutional appearance Hell is still the Pit.

[Rockfish]

On 2017-07-11 at 4:45 PM, Zaku said:

Virtually every critic says that it was a quite mediocre painter.

I just have a cursory knowledge of art and probably even less artistic ability, so I guess I was looking at his architectural paintings through that lens, thinking, "That's better than what I could do." I also thought I remembered reading that modern critics thought he had had some raw talent, but I could be wrong. I do find it interesting to wonder the whole "what if" he'd been accepted into art school, even though that's going down a senseless rabbit hole.

[ganesh]

Maybe he just didn't meet the right people. Someone with influence might have liked him had he met the right people who got him the right introductions, then he could have gotten some mentorship who could figure out his talent, etc., it's timeless. Maybe regardless, he always had internal anger and that would have surfaced eventually. 

[Dirtybubble]

On July 12, 2017 at 9:00 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

Maybe Hitler was purposely put in a unit with people who don't admire him as part of his punishment.

Wonder what Tyler and the others are in for.

Wouldn't it be more of a punishment for a resident of Hell sent there for his violent ways to not be permitted to engage in acts of violence? Except for reformed Hitler and normally non-violent Eugene, they all seemed to be enjoying themselves.

I was thinking along these lines as well.  Hell for Hitler would him behaving in a passive way--something the exact opposite of what he was alive, maybe he is forced to behave in a manner he hated.  I don't think it's the writers/directors intention to make us feel sorry for Hitler but maybe to give us a different version of hell.  That's what I like about this show, it makes me think what if; it challenges all my ideas of heaven and hell.

[Bruinsfan]

Hitler didn't have much of a talent for depicting people or a sense of movement, but his more detailed landscapes and building paintings were competent enough. I'd guess he could have done well enough for himself illustrating someone else's plans for an architectural firm if not for the whole genocidal lunatic demagogue thing.

[Captanne]

For me, the Ass Face plotline drags.  Too much Hell.  Blah.  Otherwise, I really enjoy this show.  It's campier than Banshee (I bailed on the last season there, refused to pay for it) and I do like comic books.  I'm an old collector and haven't watched any of the films (although, well done, Stan Lee.  Kudos to you!)

So, this is fun comic book entertainment in the comfort of my living room.