S07.E01: Dragonstone

[Tikichick]

Just now, GrailKing said:

Maybe the fisherman's son.?

If that were the case it would be ironic to complain about the casting as a distraction if you cannot point out the correct person.  However I didn't get that sense from what they wrote, I simply think they remembered the hair incorrectly.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod note:

Some folks will find ES's appearance jarring, some won't. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and while you may respectfully disagree, it's time to stop flogging this particular dead direwolf and move on.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

It was a good scene, to me better then Euron and Cersei scene.

The Euron and Cersei scene was worth it just for that one handed crack. LOL Though I don't care for Euron he won some points for that one. The rest of the scene was kind of pointless because Euron should have shown up with the "gift" already instead of wasting time chatting with Cersei. Maybe he thought he'd win her over with his questionable charm?

[GrailKing]

Just now, Mabinogia said:

The Euron and Cersei scene was worth it just for that one handed crack. LOL Though I don't care for Euron he won some points for that one. The rest of the scene was kind of pointless because Euron should have shown up with the "gift" already instead of wasting time chatting with Cersei. Maybe he thought he'd win her over with his questionable charm?

I would have at least like to see a skeleton, or dead figure on the front of the ship to show he's a dangerous person, he didn't come off that way to me, more snark then dangerous. 

Jamie won't be a happy camper soon.

[Mabinogia]

13 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I would have at least like to see a skeleton, or dead figure on the front of the ship to show he's a dangerous person, he didn't come off that way to me, more snark then dangerous. 

Yeah, he doesn't come off as terribly threatening. If Cersei wasn't completely desperate at this point I think she would have laughed him out of the Throne Room immediately. Even with only one hand I have a feeling Jaime could take him in a fair fight. But I dought Euron is the type to fight fair, so I suppose he's got that going for him.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, he doesn't come off as terribly threatening. If Cersei wasn't completely desperate at this point I think she would have laughed him out of the Throne Room immediately. Even with only one hand I have a feeling Jaime could take him in a fair fight. But I dought Euron is the type to fight fair, so I suppose he's got that going for him.

Would have been a good call back if he had the sea priest from the Kingsmoot tied up on it, then many viewers would know he may be worst than Joffery or Ramsey.

Fair, not if they give him magic or something.

We wait to see.

[Tikichick]

22 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I would have at least like to see a skeleton, or dead figure on the front of the ship to show he's a dangerous person, he didn't come off that way to me, more snark then dangerous. 

Jamie won't be a happy camper soon.

From what we've seen on the show so far my take is that Euron is a whole lot more talk than action.  Considering the age and physical condition of Balon the fact he was able to send him over the bridge didn't really convince me Euron's got the goods to back up the mouth.  

No matter how far around the bend Cersei may be at this point the last thing I see her being taken in by is some man attempting to woo her.  Girlfriend has made it clear she's waited her whole life to be taken seriously and she put up with more than enough from Robert to be likely to marry again unless she thought it was her only option to stay in power.

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Would have been a good call back if he had the sea priest from the Kingsmoot tied up on it, then many viewers would know he may be worst than Joffery or Ramsey.

Fair, not if they give him magic or something.

We wait to see.

Was the priest on the show brother to Balon and Euron?  That wasn't clear to me from the show, even though I know the Iron Islands story is vastly different from the books.

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Was the priest on the show brother to Balon and Euron?  That wasn't clear to me from the show, even though I know the Iron Islands story is vastly different from the books.

They never stated it, made it look like just Balon ,Yara,Theon and Euron.

[Mabinogia]

10 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

No matter how far around the bend Cersei may be at this point the last thing I see her being taken in by is some man attempting to woo her.  Girlfriend has made it clear she's waited her whole life to be taken seriously and she put up with more than enough from Robert to be likely to marry again unless she thought it was her only option to stay in power.

Yeah. I see her more likely to kill him and take his fleet than to marry him and risk anyone choosing him as King over her. Technically, more likely to have Jaime kill him than do it herself. I can't wait until her little lapdog finally turns on her.

[Macbeth]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Even if he didn't, shouldn't  Davos know?

That's a good point.  Davos should be pointing Jon towards Dragonstone.  However I believe that plot line is being reserved for the Jorah and Sam show.  That's the plot that will bring them together (Sam as a hostage of course) as Jorah drags him to Dany with all of Sam's intel.

If Jorah thought Tyrion could talk - he is about to meet the Maester of Gabbing.  Tyrion is about to meet the one individual who can out talk him.

[thegreathoo]

Cersei is actually in control for the first time, free of emotions and family bs.

Euron was godsent.  He will reel in the dragons for her.

The unexpected dagger in her plans will be Arya who is headed that way to kill her.

 

Loss of dragons may force the alliance of Daeny and the North, loyalty for dragonglass.  Then we will have the three Targs together, Daeny, Tyrion and Jon.  The three riders against the wights.

Thry will have to free the dragons first.

 

This was a great episode

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

Girlfriend has made it clear she's waited her whole life to be taken seriously

I disagree, I think people took Cersei seriously; Jamie, Twyin, Tyrion, they never underestimated her (Robert did, though). What she's waited her whole for was to be the one in power and dealing the cards, which, of course, has everyhing to do with being a woman in a patriarcal society.

 

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

If Jorah thought Tyrion could talk - he is about to meet the Maester of Gabbing.  Tyrion is about to meet the one individual who can out talk him.

If the writing on this show was better, that would make some great scenes.

[KungFuBunny]

The scene with Arya and the Lannister soldiers hasn't necessarily "ended". We don't see her go riding off and saying thanks so much for sharing the food. More may come and if she does get attacked, it's a good way for her to acquire a soldier's uniform. Did she call Cersei the Queen? Did the Lannister soldiers say it too? They have to be on some sort of mission. I do also wonder if she has been traveling wearing a "male" face for her own safety.

I have a question about the WW. Do they age? There was a scene where the NK took a Craston baby and made it into a WW. So does it grow up?

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

I disagree, I think people took Cersei seriously; Jamie, Twyin, Tyrion, they never underestimated her (Robert did, though). What she's waited her whole for was to be the one in power and dealing the cards, which, of course, has everyhing to do with being a woman in a patriarcal society.

 

If the writing on this show was better, that would make some great scenes.

She absolutely was overlooked by Tywin, they even had a spitting match about it onscreen.  Despite the fact he recognized she had some intelligence it seemed he could not get past the fact she was a female and therefore never bothered to really teach her what he would have if she were male.  I think were she not his daughter he would have both recognized and respected her intellect more.  Loathe as he was to admit it, he gave more credit and deference to Tyrion's intelligence(which admittedly is to be admired) despite the fact his very existence as "the son of Tywin Lannister" pained him even more than the fact that Jamie had placed himself in a position unable to be heir to Casterly Rock.  

All Tywin saw when he looked to his daughter was the ability to make a marriage strategic to Lannister interests.  Once he secured that he needed her to provide heirs to insure that there would be a dynasty.  (If nobody was around to hear it I think Tywin would probably admit that he was secretly glad that the heirs she produced to take the throne were in fact all Lannister.)  If Cersei had been literally any other female in her father's orbit she would have at least been recognized for her intelligence.  Heck, if she were his cupbearer he probably would have asked her input.  It seems only the fact she was merely the daughter made him blind.

Cersei was given no choice but to marry Robert Barratheon.  I honestly think she made a reasonable attempt at the start with Robert.  He proved himself a cruel buffoon who ruled by a bit of brute strength and more than a little good fortune -- wasting his life away mooning over his great lost love. 

All of this helped create the Cersei we met at the start of the series.  Girlfriend is DONE listening to anybody else's opinions. 

[screamin]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah. I see her more likely to kill him and take his fleet than to marry him and risk anyone choosing him as King over her. Technically, more likely to have Jaime kill him than do it herself. I can't wait until her little lapdog finally turns on her.

Jaime will turn on her eventually, but it won't be over killing Euron - if Cersei told him to, it would be one of her few orders that he'd still follow with joy.

[Francie]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Even if he didn't, shouldn't  Davos know?

I'm new to the Game of Thrones forum, but where I come from (mainly a daytime thread -- judge away!), it's customary to propose to someone who has made it insight this awesome. So, in that vein, will you marry me?*

I fear here that may mean that I have homicidal intentions. Trust that that's not the case. Or trust not, as the case may be.

In any event, wicked awesome observation! 

* We also put slogans on t-shirts, theoretically. And have a barge for those who need a hiatus from the show.  

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, screamin said:

Jaime will turn on her eventually, but it won't be over killing Euron - if Cersei told him to, it would be one of her few orders that he'd still follow with joy.

Have to admit, I was a little thrown by Jamie hanging in there with Cersei after Tommen and the Sept.

[whateverdgaf]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Have to admit, I was a little thrown by Jamie hanging in there with Cersei after Tommen and the Sept.

I think Jaime probably doesn't have many options. If you look at things from his perspective, Daenerys isn't going to be all that appealing either. He's got no reason to trust her more than Cersei.

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Have to admit, I was a little thrown by Jamie hanging in there with Cersei after Tommen and the Sept.

Seriously! It's bad enough she just murdered a bunch of people basically to kill a couple, she called her son, who just killed himself after mommy killed his wife and half the people he knows, a traitor. I would have rammed my sword through her right then. Not Jaime. He's just mildly turned off.

[Francie]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

Seriously! It's bad enough she just murdered a bunch of people basically to kill a couple, she called her son, who just killed himself after mommy killed his wife and half the people he knows, a traitor. I would have rammed my sword through her right then. Not Jaime. He's just mildly turned off.

She took out the entire faith militant, nearly all of the opposing family that was trying to destroy her, a condescending uncle, and a tattletale cousin. 

 It was a rather targeted and effective strike, all told. 

[Tikichick]

4 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

I think Jaime probably doesn't have many options. If you look at things from his perspective, Daenerys isn't going to be all that appealing either. He's got no reason to trust her more than Cersei.

I guess his real preference is permanently out of the question.  Even if he is unaware of her whereabouts he knows Brienne was sworn to Sansa and determined to find and serve her.  No doubt Jamie is well aware he's permanently persona non grata in that circle. 

3 minutes ago, Francie said:

She took out the entire faith militant, nearly all of the opposing family that was trying to destroy her, a condescending uncle, and a tattletale cousin. 

 It was a rather targeted and effective strike, all told. 

Strategically it was brilliant in the moment.  Long-term I think there will be a hefty price to pay.

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

It was a rather targeted and effective strike, all told. 

That is true, but Tommen didn't see it that way. And Tommen is Jaime's last remaining child. And Cersei doesn't show any sign that she cares that he is dead. I'd have expected Jaime to have more of a reaction then just kind of looking mildly irritated at her. I'm sure Jaime didn't give much of a shit about anyone who died, other than his son, who I think did die as a result of what his mother did.

I'm fine with the people she took out. I hated the faith militant idiots so good riddance. But her cold disinterest in her last dead child, the end of her possible legacy shows just how much of her humanity she gave up to get what she wanted. Honestly, I see Arya, not Sansa, as more Cersei like in her blind determination to reach her bloody goal. There is still hope for Arya, she still has her family if she bothers to go looking for them but I think Cersei is now far beyond hope with the loss of her last hope for a legacy, or as normal people would call him, child.

[Francie]

I don't read Cersei as disinterested.  Rather, she's resigned. The prophecy, as it was important to her, has come true. It was worth fighting, so long as any of her children lived. 

Now, nothing matters. She's going through the motions, waiting for her own death. 

As Oberyn told her in season four, all that is left for her now is vengeance. 

[screamin]

I think basically Jaime's made up his mind that he's love's bitch, and that he's fool enough to die that way. Even though he's fully aware that his love for Cersei is unappreciated, and he probably HAS had second thoughts about maybe it might have been worthwhile to love Brienne, he's built his whole life around the idea that Cersei is his One True Love - and also kind of glorifying himself as a sort of lonely Byronic hero martyr, unique among humankind for the singularity of his love (IIRC, didn't he pretty much brag to Catelyn or somebody that he was different from all other men because of it?) It's hard to give up a lifelong habit of thought like that and exchange it for feeling like a chump, for no good payoff. If he still had a child of his own to fight for, he'd probably oppose Cersei to do it, reasoning that if Cersei were in her right mind she'd want him to.

But in his mind he now has no one left to love but Cersei. Even if he realizes she's unworthy of that love, he doesn't have anything else left he loves enough to fight for. Yes, she's going to fight a pointless war and get more people killed, but even if he took Cersei down there's going to be wars fought anyway, so he might as well fight for her and Byronically die at her side when she loses because of the odds against her. Whoever wins, the war is an ordinary human war that will eventually be over and life will go on as it always does.

I think his mind may change when he realizes that the war to come is not going to be an ordinary war, and that life will not go on at all if the wrong side wins....

Quote

 

I don't read Cersei as disinterested.  Rather, she's resigned. The prophecy, as it was important to her, has come true. It was worth fighting, so long as any of her children lived. 

Now, nothing matters. She's going through the motions, waiting for her own death. 

 

If she were really resigned, why are the motions including such a vicious battle for survival? Why shouldn't the motions just be sitting down and drinking gallons of Arbor wine while taking bets on which enemy will break through the gates first before she sets KL on fire? She's lost all her loves - except herself. She still has that left, and still one more challenge to face - the younger, more beautiful queen. If she can't beat the odds on THAT part of the prophecy, she sure as hell will try.

Edited July 20, 2017 by screamin
hell ain't well.

[kieyra]

4 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'll admit to being a wee bit dense - I thought the opening scene was a flashback at first.  It didn't hit me that it was Arya until she started to make the speech about killing a pregnant woman, and then I knew right away that the wine was poison (before they started keeling over).

I can top this: I'm usually the one figuring these twists out and slapping my hand over my mouth so I don't spoiler my BF with correct guesses. But it was flipped this time; he started with an immediate outburst, stopped himself, and I had absolutely no clue what was going on until Arya pulled off the mask. I thought it was a very weirdly placed flashback. Derrrrrrp.

(But last season was sooooo long ago and I'm not usually on the boards in between seasons.)

[Minneapple]

16 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Have to admit, I was a little thrown by Jamie hanging in there with Cersei after Tommen and the Sept.

Well, this is part of the problem of Jaime's character since the writers have chosen to keep him with Cersei rather than breaking from her like he does in the books. Now it just seems like why? He finds out that she killed a whole lot of people and her actions led to their son's death and his response is to look like he's wondering what kind of sandwich he's having for lunch.

Not sure if Arya killed the Lannister soldiers. But the whole scene was written like "Here, Have An Anvil" (OMG that should be the title of Ed Sheeran's next song.) I HOPE I HAVE A GIRL BABY GIRLS ARE AWESOME ALSO WE ARE NICE LANNISTERS ALSO HERE BE OUR GUEST SEE YOU SHOULDN'T KILL EVERYONE INCLUDING NICE LANNISTERS.

Reading the thread, I get the impression that there is some kind of Jon vs. Sansa debate. Awesome. 

[Francie]

17 minutes ago, screamin said:

 

I think his mind may change when he realizes that the war to come is not going to be an ordinary war, and that life will not go on at all if the wrong side wins....

If she were really resigned, why are the motions including such a vicious battle for survival? Why shouldn't the motions just be sitting down and drinking gallons of Arbor wine while taking bets on which enemy will break through the gates first before she sets KL on fire? She's lost all her loves - except herself. She still has that left, and still one more challenge to face - the younger, more beautiful queen. If she can't beat the odds on THAT part of the prophecy, she sure as well will try.

It's more a suicide by cop type of resignation, or even depression.   Watch that scene with her and Jamie again. She doesn't think she's going to make it out of this alive. But she's going to take down as many of the bastards that she can before she goes.  And to her right now, anyone else is a bastard.  

Edited July 20, 2017 by Francie

[Raachel2008]

36 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Seriously! It's bad enough she just murdered a bunch of people basically to kill a couple, she called her son, who just killed himself after mommy killed his wife and half the people he knows, a traitor. I would have rammed my sword through her right then. Not Jaime. He's just mildly turned off.

I think it is a matter of Cersei being the only family Jamie has left - because apparently  every single other Lannister in the universe has been killed. Tywin always repeated that family is everything, that what matters is the family, the Lannister name, their legacy. Cersei is his sister, twin, lover, everthing, all he has in the world, and she is part of his life as he has always known it. Maybe Jamie thinks Cersei is just going through a phase because he saw how she was after Joffrey and Myrcella died.

Jamie  doesn't have many options either; he killed Aerys, he is the kingslayer, he is not trusthworth. Dany knows her father was a nutcase, but that doesn't mean she would forgive Jamie for killing him; Dorne, and the North hates the Lannisters, Arya just killed the Freys, and he encarcerated Edmure Tully and killed the Blackfish, so the Riverlands are not real friends either.  Jamie is an accomplished swordman and a general/leader in battlefield, but he is 40, doesn't have two hands (tsk tsk Euron), his House is broken. How many options do you think he has? The future is not that brilliant for Jamie right now and I can see the war to come as giving him a purpose in life, assuming he ever takes part in the fight against the WW.

And I'm probaly alone on this, but IMO Jamie is the valonqar and the one who will kill Cersei. 

17 minutes ago, screamin said:

he probably HAS had second thoughts about maybe it might have been worthwhile to love Brienne

I don't chose who you love, you just love people and then decide what to do with it. Jamie didn't love Brienne, not in a romantic sense, will never will.  Sure, in Jamie Lannister's world Brienne made his top 10 favorite people, but I think what she sees in Brienne is the kinda of man he could have been if his life had been differently or if he had been a different man. Jamie's love has always belonged to Cersei.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Raachel2008

[WindyNights]

On 7/17/2017 at 7:19 PM, stillshimpy said:

And just like that, my dream of Cersei being killed by Joffrey, or Tywin, or Tommin, or Myrcella (whatever her name was) was born.  

I would love it if the end for Cersei is being fucked with by everyone she claims she loved only to be backed across a room by a March of dead Starks, accusing her of her crimes, driving Cersei absolutely batshit before killing her as Arya Stark.   I want the parade of the dead to come for Cersei.  

 

Small problem of the Mountainstein and everything but I'm betting on the Hound being the one to take him the fuck out at long last.  

 

Not really speculation, by the way, just fond, fond wishes.  I love Lena Headey but Cersei needs a hell of a death scene and sure, I remember the hand round her throat and everything, but here's hoping Maggie had a blind spot.  If anyone has earned the right to kill Cersei, it's a Stark.  

While it might be cathartic, I don't think GRRM writes like that.

 

It seems like he's setting up Cersei's end to be tragic not cathartic and you can also expect Jaime to die after he kills her. It's probably Robert Strong that does him in too who is basically a mockery of Jaime.

 

RS is a Lannister henchman in KG garb that Tywin and Cersei empowered(also fitting that she shares Robert's name) Also there's been too much focus on how RS immediately reacts to any seeming threat to Cersei even in this episode. 

 

Anyways it has to be Jaime that does her in because it's the only way to shatter Cersei right before her death. (And we all know how GRRM wants to shatter POVs when they die like Jon, Cat, Quentyn and Ned). It's the ultimate betrayal. 

 

Arya killing her doesn't emotionally devastate her the way Jaime would.

 

And I think GRRM like Tolkien thinks that vengeance is corrupting not badass.

 

Now the show could take it this route but I don't think they're setting that up. Even in this episode, you can see that while Jaime and Cersei have their little convo, Jaime is standing on the Fingers and Cersei is standing on the Neck.

[screamin]

9 minutes ago, Francie said:

Dammit, I had to unlike your post. I like everything you said until you edited to respond to me!

Sorry, Francie. I shall defiantly like your post anyway, so there.

Quote

And I'm probaly alone on this, but IMO Jamie is the valonqar and the one who will kill Cersei. 

Actually, I think that's a pretty common viewpoint, even though Jaime doesn't have two hands to crush out Cersei's life with, unless Qyburn does a transplant...

[whateverdgaf]

I disagree with the sentiment that Jaime is going to die immediately after Cersei does. The fact that Cersei herself has said she expects them to die together leads me to believe in the exact opposite, when is Cersei ever right? 

And I do think that Jaime's relationship with Brienne is going somewhere, there has been too much set up for it not to be. I don't know where it will lead, but there will definitely need to be some sort of closure. I just can't see why they would include otherwise pointless scenes, like Jaime staring longingly at Tarth in Season 5, unless it's leading up to something, whatever that is.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

The scene with Arya and the Lannister soldiers hasn't necessarily "ended". We don't see her go riding off and saying thanks so much for sharing the food. More may come and if she does get attacked, it's a good way for her to acquire a soldier's uniform. Did she call Cersei the Queen? Did the Lannister soldiers say it too? They have to be on some sort of mission. I do also wonder if she has been traveling wearing a "male" face for her own safety.

I have a question about the WW. Do they age? There was a scene where the NK took a Craston baby and made it into a WW. So does it grow up?

Their mission was to keep the peace/ the Twins incident.

Cold preserves, they probably age much slower then the humans.

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

She absolutely was overlooked by Tywin, they even had a spitting match about it onscreen.  Despite the fact he recognized she had some intelligence it seemed he could not get past the fact she was a female and therefore never bothered to really teach her what he would have if she were male.  I think were she not his daughter he would have both recognized and respected her intellect more.  Loathe as he was to admit it, he gave more credit and deference to Tyrion's intelligence(which admittedly is to be admired) despite the fact his very existence as "the son of Tywin Lannister" pained him even more than the fact that Jamie had placed himself in a position unable to be heir to Casterly Rock.  

All Tywin saw when he looked to his daughter was the ability to make a marriage strategic to Lannister interests.  Once he secured that he needed her to provide heirs to insure that there would be a dynasty.  (If nobody was around to hear it I think Tywin would probably admit that he was secretly glad that the heirs she produced to take the throne were in fact all Lannister.)  If Cersei had been literally any other female in her father's orbit she would have at least been recognized for her intelligence.  Heck, if she were his cupbearer he probably would have asked her input.  It seems only the fact she was merely the daughter made him blind.

Cersei was given no choice but to marry Robert Barratheon.  I honestly think she made a reasonable attempt at the start with Robert.  He proved himself a cruel buffoon who ruled by a bit of brute strength and more than a little good fortune -- wasting his life away mooning over his great lost love. 

All of this helped create the Cersei we met at the start of the series.  Girlfriend is DONE listening to anybody else's opinions. 

Tommen,Mycella maybe; Joffery he bitch slap him worst then Tyrion did.

[Raachel2008]

6 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Tommen,Mycella maybe; Joffery he bitch slap him worst then Tyrion did.

I'm pretty OP meant they looked like Lannisters (blond, fair eyes) and not like Baraethons. 

And Joffrey deserved a thousand more bitch slaps.

[GrailKing]

52 minutes ago, Francie said:

She took out the entire faith militant, nearly all of the opposing family that was trying to destroy her, a condescending uncle, and a tattletale cousin. 

 It was a rather targeted and effective strike, all told. 

1 septon, a septa, a SIL aka Queen, an uncle,father inlaw, a brother inlaw,a cousin, a dozen sparrows or so.

What about those other few hundreds innocents who were just viewing the trial?

collateral damage?

Not to targeted..

[Francie]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

1 septon, a septa, a SIL aka Queen, an uncle,father inlaw, a brother inlaw,a cousin, a dozen sparrows or so.

What about those other few hundreds innocents who were just viewing the trial?

collateral damage?

Not to targeted..

 Just a dozen of sparrows?  Oh my child of summer. It was an entire movement and uprising that she quashed. Do you think they really could've taken over the entire city with only one dozen in their ranks.

I'll stand fast on this. Cersei  took out no more than she needed to, to get out of the situation she was in  and ensure the death of the High Sparrow and all of his followers. The collateral damage was about as minimal as it could be, under the circumstances.

As to the lords and ladies that she took out there, don't go to a shit show unless you're willing to get hit with feces.  It was a kangaroo court, and anyone who attended who didn't have to was there to watch Cersei fall.

Keep in mind that Tywin took out every man, woman, child, and servant who served the Castemeres. Mothers died holding their babies. And yet he remained respected and feared. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Francie

[isiscloud]

On 7/16/2017 at 10:05 PM, SeanC said:

That was probably the longest Peter Dinklage has ever been onscreen without saying anything.

I get why they wanted the Dragonstone sequence to be wordless until that point, cinematically, though the nitpicker in me was thinking that the idea of that castle sitting vacant for years is kind of absurd.

So, had those guards with the fire lights inside the door been there since Stannis left? And, please clean the map table! We know what's been done on it! 

[WindyNights]

34 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

I disagree with the sentiment that Jaime is going to die immediately after Cersei does. The fact that Cersei herself has said she expects them to die together leads me to believe in the exact opposite, when is Cersei ever right? 

And I do think that Jaime's relationship with Brienne is going somewhere, there has been too much set up for it not to be. I don't know where it will lead, but there will definitely need to be some sort of closure. I just can't see why they would include otherwise pointless scenes, like Jaime staring longingly at Tarth in Season 5, unless it's leading up to something, whatever that is.

Cersei is right that the Tyrells are traitors and that they helped kill Joffrey. So she's not always wrong.

The twist isn't that she's wrong but that she's tragically right since they both end up killing each other. Jaime kills Cersei and Cersei through Robert Strong kills Jaime.

I think whatever GRRM has set up between Brienne and Jaime is going to be resolved once his time with LS is done(where he then heads to KL). I'm sure the show intends to resolve Jaime's relationship with Brienne in a different way but I doubt it's going to end in some romance.

[kieyra]

I mostly just felt bad for Tyrion having to walk up what looked like a mile of stairs. It's like when you're leaving one of the Orlando theme parks and you realize just how far away your car really is. 

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Francie said:

I have a feeling it's for the  cinematic dramatic effect when snow covers it.  But still.  Not a smart move when winter is here

Most likely this, or it's the only room with enough light, or the symbolism shot.

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

I mostly just felt bad for Tyrion having to walk up what looked like a mile of stairs. It's like when you're leaving one of the Orlando theme parks and you realize just how far away your car really is. 

We know that feeling.  

[Macbeth]

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Now the show could take it this route but I don't think they're setting that up. Even in this episode, you can see that while Jaime and Cersei have their little convo, Jaime is standing on the Fingers and Cersei is standing on the Neck.

That's a great observation.  I believe Jaime will end up killing Cersei as well.

And they spent a lot of time with the Hound this episode.  He was reborn last season.  And the way that he could see the future in the flames - which he did not flinch from - I think the Hound is really Azhor Ahai.  Which means Melissandre has it wrong.  Once again, 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

The faces aren't infused with magic. And even if they were, did Arya bring this magic with her from Bravos? 

Why not?

In this universe we accept dudes being brought back to life by the Lord of the light, dragons, a woman who is impervious to fire, giants, an army of the dead, franken-mountain ... but the faceless assassin stuff being magic related is a bridge too far?

Quote

I believe Jaime will end up killing Cersei as well

Me too. I just wish he'd do it already.I much prefer Jaimie far away from Cersei.

[WindyNights]

8 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

 

Me too. I just wish he'd do it already.I much prefer Jaimie far away from Cersei.

Well that's the thing. You're probably not going to get that afterwards.

 

Jaime's story ends when he ends Cersei's story. Tywin's golden twins killing each other off because he drilled "a Lannister always lay his debts" is too poetic. 

[FemmyV]

19 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

That's a great observation.  I believe Jaime will end up killing Cersei as well.

But will it be Jaime, or will it be Arya, with Jaime's face?

[Constantinople]

Jorah and Sam had their first scene together in this episode

Jorah has greyscale

Sam is reading about dragonglass and Dragonstone

Dragonstone is littered with dragonglass

Shireen had greyscale but was cured or partly cured

Shireen spent almost her entire life on Dragonstone

[Stephanie1216]

On 7/17/2017 at 0:31 AM, BitterApple said:

Hell, if teenage Arya was able to make it to Riverrun on her own, a few well-trained assassins could probably shlep up to Winterfell with minimal trouble.

Yes because all it took to bring down Stannis (who was considered the best military commander in Westoros) was that idiot Ramsey Bolton and "20 Good Men" 

 

thats as as good as the writing has become in GoT unfortunately.

along with Euron  making Dick jokes to Theon last season and a long montage of Sam carrying bowls of runny shit.  And the Freys are gone but the Twins and the ever important Bridge is currently unmanned. 

Too many plot holes

[Stephanie1216]

Davos knows there is Dragonglass at Dragonstone Sam needs to find out HOW to make more of it.

Jorah needs info on how to stop Greyscale from spreading like Princess Shireen.

Sam needs to find proof of Jon Snows parentage and record of his birth and of R and L marriage.

it makes no sense for Jon Snow to become Jon Blackfyre.

why go through all that to go from being one mans bastard to another mans bastard.

unless Sam sees one of those three things, I don't care what he does at The Citadel 

[JustCrazy]

On 7/16/2017 at 9:09 PM, saoirse said:

Euron kind of took me out of the episode. He seemed a bit trashy to me. I'd be fine if he just went away.

He looked to me to be doing a very bad captain jack sparrow impersonation. 

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, JustCrazy said:

He looked to me to be doing a very bad captain jack sparrow impersonation. 

Nah, Jack Sparrow is charming. Euron is a playmobil on steroids. Serious, look at the hair and round head.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Ambrosefolly]

On 7/19/2017 at 8:54 PM, Francie said:

 Just a dozen of sparrows?  Oh my child of summer. It was an entire movement and uprising that she quashed. Do you think they really could've taken over the entire city with only one dozen in their ranks.

I'll stand fast on this. Cersei  took out no more than she needed to, to get out of the situation she was in  and ensure the death of the High Sparrow and all of his followers. The collateral damage was about as minimal as it could be, under the circumstances.

As to the lords and ladies that she took out there, don't go to a shit show unless you're willing to get hit with feces.  It was a kangaroo court, and anyone who attended who didn't have to was there to watch Cersei fall.

Keep in mind that Tywin took out every man, woman, child, and servant who served the Castemeres. Mothers died holding their babies. And yet he remained respected and feared. 

 

 

 

It looked about several blocks of people living around the Sept, which probably number into the hundreds and she drove her youngest to suicide. But that fucking bitch doesn't get to suffer for the shit storm she created! Lot more than the minimal amount of collateral damage. And for her temporarily getting out her current enemies, she not only created or severely pissed of a number of people, she has effectively starved the city now that the Reach won't be sending any more food. The Mother of Dragons will be looking awfully tempting to city dwellers and the remaining peasants once she marches into the city. And for all she knows, she might have created brand new movements now that she has turned the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant into martyrs. Just like putting the High Sparrow in power in the first place, this new fix will quickly crumble. 

When Ron Paul campiganed in 2008, he get telling the neo cons if they didn't want to keep getting attacked, they should stopped bombing the shit out of countries and pissing off their people.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[Gertrude]

3 hours ago, Francie said:

 Just a dozen of sparrows?  Oh my child of summer. It was an entire movement and uprising that she quashed. Do you think they really could've taken over the entire city with only one dozen in their ranks.

I'll stand fast on this. Cersei  took out no more than she needed to, to get out of the situation she was in  and ensure the death of the High Sparrow and all of his followers. The collateral damage was about as minimal as it could be, under the circumstances.

As to the lords and ladies that she took out there, don't go to a shit show unless you're willing to get hit with feces.  It was a kangaroo court, and anyone who attended who didn't have to was there to watch Cersei fall.

Keep in mind that Tywin took out every man, woman, child, and servant who served the Castemeres. Mothers died holding their babies. And yet he remained respected and feared. 

I have to strongly disagree. Yes, Cersei had enemies. It might be acceptable to kill them for survival - I don't agree, but I will concede that.

That tattle-tale cousin - he turned state's witness to a crime committed by her and him. Cersei conspired to kill the King. If she hadn't done that, there was no need to seduce Lancel for his help, nothing for him to tattle about. And her Uncle was condescending? Oh no.

The Tyrells were adversaries, but Cersei never even tried to work with them once. She was the one upping the aggression level at every turn. But it was a personal matter and not truly a threat. A threat to her power and influence, sure, but it wasn't threatening her survival like Ned did. So Cersei escalated this because she's power-hungry. Not a noble reason.

You're just hand-waving the collateral damage of the lords, ladies and like 30 city blocks because they were in the wrong place and probably deserved it anyway because they looked forward to seeing justice brought to Cersei, who was accused of some very vile crimes, amongst them the killing of a King. I'm sure Robert had no friends who might have wanted to see Cersei brought to justice for that.

And the High Sparrow himself, I'm pretty sure Cersei herself gave him the power he had. She backed him way before Tommen backed him. She was too giddy to put in motion her clever plan to take down the Tyrells to even think about the consequences even a little. She knew Lancel was one of the zealots around the High Sparrow and she should have shut that shit down as soon as she realized that.

So no, I can't look at this as a clever strike against her enemies. It's a war crime. A monsterous way out of a situation she got herself into because she is too short-sighted and bitter to think things through. She's not clever, she's a cornered animal acting out of vicious instinct. The fact that Jaime hasn't turned away from her yet in the show undermines the very core of him and it makes me extremely sad and glad the books still exist.

And by comparing her favorably to Tywin Lannister, I think we have very different ideas of what acceptable tactics are. Tywin was feared, yes. Respected? Truly respected in a positive way? Probably not. Fear can look like respect when you don't want to cross a cruel, murderous bastard who could have you, your family, your family's family, fifth cousins and old neighbors wiped out with a word.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Gertrude