S07.E01: Dragonstone

[Nanrad]

This isn no shade towards Sansa, but despite arya being a mass murderer (shrugs), Sansa comes off as the colder one. Aryas murders fueled by revenge and we see glimpses of her humanity still intact. I can't recall the scene accurately, but she talked about her brother as if he was some random (impending) death. I think the most emotion we see from her is when her trauma is brought up and when she returned to winterfell.

Sansa has a reason to be cold tho.

[screamin]

21 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

As King of the North, Jon can easily replace Littlefinger as Robin's Regent or he can kill Littlefinger and that would be the end of. Littlefinger is only alive because he adds tension to Jon and Sansa's story.

LF is in command of an army at Winterfell. Jon would have to be sure to get assurances from the army's lower commanders that they would not attack Winterfell if he kills the regent of the Vale who received Sweetrobin's own mandate to command those forces...not to mention that killing Littlefinger, who was responsible for saving Jon's ass on the battlefield, would look like barbaric, treacherous ingratitude to the uninitiated. Also, he is a guest under Jon's own roof, and I gather that killing your guest is violating an important taboo in Westeros, hm?

And while Jon is gathering those necessary reassurances before he strikes, you may be certain that LF has installed his own sources among the Vale men. If he hears about the plot first, he'll strike first - not a good result. Again, plotting to kill LF isn't likely to be that easy.

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, J----av said:

 Tormund said "don't" after Rickon was already shot. He was saying "don't" because he didn't want Jon stupidly charging at Ramsays men himself AFTER Rickon was already dead. How would that make Sansa a cold bitch for NOT wanting Jon to charge at Ramsay by himself and get himself killed and force his men into Ramsays trap? Jon made an emotional decision AFTER Rickon died and was basically committing suicide (thank god for plot armor). Things like that is why Jon is a bad leader. Rickon was dead, there was nothing more he could have done. He should have rode back to his men and followed the plan instead of leading his men into a trap and getting thousands killed

 

 Then there is the whole Sansa not telling about the Vale that hot thousands killed. Niether Jon or Sansa should be running an army or ruling the North. I am curious what they will do with Bran back now since he is the true heir to Winterfell

The Tormund part is correct, but my part on Sansa would also be correct, because she would have told him Not to do it, she may not have known battles, but she knew the enemy. I think once he got there it was to late to go back, he got caught, Davos had no choice  except to get the men there as quickly as possible.

For the people who like Ned's way she be wrong for not letting him try. There are valid reasons why she didn't, should she, yes ,especially when Tormund and Davos left the tent, would it have changed the result? nope, because Ramsey had the leverage he had Rickon and he used him as bait.

At the parlay when Shaggy's head was thrown down right then I think Sansa thought Rickon already dead or he would be before the battle, hence her you're going to die Lord Bolton.....

When Sansa got there she was sad that Jon got caught in the trap, yet a majority of the viewers said she was sad that Jon was still alive,go figure.

[SimoneS]

8 minutes ago, screamin said:

LF is in command of an army at Winterfell. Jon would have to be sure to get assurances from the army's lower commanders that they would not attack Winterfell if he kills the regent of the Vale who received Sweetrobin's own mandate to command those forces...not to mention that killing Littlefinger, who was responsible for saving Jon's ass on the battlefield, would look like barbaric, treacherous ingratitude to the uninitiated. Also, he is a guest under Jon's own roof, and I gather that killing your guest is violating an important taboo in Westeros, hm?

And while Jon is gathering those necessary reassurances before he strikes, you may be certain that LF has installed his own sources among the Vale men. If he hears about the plot first, he'll strike first - not a good result. Again, plotting to kill LF isn't likely to be that easy.

Killing Littlefinger is one of the easier things that Jon could do right now. Jon doesn't need assurances from the Lords of Vale. They all hate Littlefinger. They aren't attacking anyone for killing him, much less the King of the North. They are not suicidal or stupid. Robin isn't revoking his oath to Jon or ordering his army to attack him because Sansa is his cousin. No one is going blink an eye when Littlefinger dies and he cannot pay his sources when he is dead. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

25 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Did anyone think it was weird how quickly those Karstark kids whipped out their swords to swear fealty to Jon? Does every kid of a minor house in Westeros get lessons in how its done? I thought it would be been a bit more realistic if someone had to nudge them to remind them what to do. I mean, Sansa who is supposedly the expert on courtly manners, couldn't even remember the oath of fealty for Brienne last season. 

 

I didn't think it wierd for Alys, she's old enough to know what's happening, young Umber maybe a bit.

To be fair Sansa knew the words, she fumbled in the middle, she started them herself and ended it herself, just a bit of help for the middle, after jumping from an 80 foot wall ,running to avoid dogs, crossing a frozen stream only to have dogs in your face most of us would not even be able to start some obscure oath we wouldn't have to expect to say until much later in life if at all, hell most Americans can't sing the words to the Star Spangled Banner sober, ask them to say it after what Sansa went through.

I give her a pass on that.

34 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

He does not have a home? Sure he does. Winterfell is home. The Lords 'elected' him King because they recognized him as a Stark, thus it is his home.

44 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

No the King in the North is a separate title he is using WF but it's not his, he's Lyanna's son, not Neds, WF isn't his it's, Bran, Sansa, Arya and if Rickon didn't die his in that order.

[WatchrTina]

25 minutes ago, Strong Belwas said:

Apologies if this has already been brought up, but how did Dany's dragons fly all the way across the Narrow Sea without resting on anything?  Are the ships big enough for them to drop down on if they feel like taking a nap?  I know this is a stupid question, but I would like an answer.

Not a stupid question (or if it is, I'm equally stupid because I thought it too.)  My fan-wank is that there are islands along the way and that the boys would periodically go off from the armada to do some hunting followed by a nap in the smoldering pasture where they helped themselves to a sheep or two.  (I'm hanging on to the hope that they weren't burning down small island communities and snacking on the residents.)

[Gertrude]

38 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

And, annoyingly, we're back to plot dictating character decisions too (i.e. SAM NEEDS TO TELL JON STUFF, THEREFORE SAM IS DETERMINED TO GAIN ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE CONTENT!). TYPICAL of this show, I know but it still grates.

What even grates more is that Sam already knew this information. Stannis told him at Castle Black and no one ever pumped him for info or acted on it. In this episode Sam even says that Stannis mentioned it. *facepalm*

[screamin]

27 minutes ago, J----av said:

  Then there is the whole Sansa not telling about the Vale that hot thousands killed. Niether Jon or Sansa should be running an army or ruling the North. I am curious what they will do with Bran back now since he is the true heir to Winterfell

I kind of get why she didn't want to bring LF in. She was hoping she wouldn't need to owe Littlefinger for help, because she knows how he would collect on those debts. And I would guess that at the time she would have worried that if she volunteered the information that LF would help because he has the hots for her, but she would really prefer NOT to bring him in because he's really good at screwing everyone over eventually and is also jockeying for her hand in marriage in return for his services, she might have been met with an enthusiastic, "Bring him in! So what if he's crooked - we can handle him! And if he wants to marry you - well, you're asking us to sacrifice our lives, here - is it so much to ask of you in return?" She just got back from captivity with Ramsey (who LF had sold her to), she was never that close to Jon and doesn't know him well, and asking your female relative to marry someone to gain an alliance isn't an immoral act in Westeros. JON wouldn't ask her to do it, but Jon is exceptional in that regard and I don't blame Sansa after her trauma having trouble with trust.

[Gertrude]

2 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Not a stupid question (or if it is, I'm equally stupid because I thought it too.)  My fan-wank is that there are islands along the way and that the boys would periodically go off from the armada to do some hunting followed by a nap in the smoldering pasture where they helped themselves to a sheep or two.  (I'm hanging on to the hope that they weren't burning down small island communities and snacking on the residents.)

Yeah. I've always figured that in the books they would cross the stepstones into Dorne because of the dragon limitations. I don't remember any such islands being mentioned anywhere other than the stepstones. It's a boring type of detail though, so I don't mind that it was handwaved away in the show.

[WatchrTina]

So . . . do we think Summer has been reanimated and is now part of the army of the dead we saw marching?  We know horses can be reanimated.

I do NOT want Summer fighting alongside the wights so I'm going to fan-wank that the White Walkers reanimate horses when they want something to ride but other than that they don't reanimate animals because its just too much of a bother.  For the human wights they can send out a mass message to the troops but animals would require a different kind of guidance.  They guide the horses by riding them -- just like living men guide horses.  I'm going to hope that they don't want to bother guiding a zombie dire wolf.

But if they did . . . if zombie Summer shows up . . . do you think Bran could warg inside it?  if he tried, would it hurt him?

And as long as I'm going down this morbid path -- remember that mark on Bran's arm that the White Walker gave him when he touched him during a vision?  That mark made it possible for the wights and White Walkers to enter the cave of the three-eyed raven.  Bran broke the protection that had been in place possibly for millennia.  So what do you suppose will be the impact of Bran taking his marked self through the Wall?  Did he just break the magic of the Wall that prevents wights and White Walkers from passing over/under/through it?

Edited July 19, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Advance35]

Quote

They are not suicidal or stupid. Robin isn't revoking his oath to Jon or ordering his army to attack him because Sansa is his cousin. No one is going blink an eye when Littlefinger dies and he cannot pay his sources when he is dead. 

When did Robin swear and oath.  The Northern Lord did last season but we didn't see the Vale Lords, a separate Kingdom entirely, swear fealty to Jon SNOW.  The Vale only went North because Littlefinger convinced Robin too, after Littlefinger talked Robin into NOT having Lord Royce executed.  For Robin helping Sansa was an afterthought that LF had to guide him too.  Jon Snow has all the importance of a random chamber pot as far as Robin's concerned.

And in terms of BoTB.  Didn't Jon Snow go off script and charge in ahead of schedule.  He came up with the idea of waiting out Ramsay and forcing him to make the first move in hopes that it would give his underwhelming numbers a minor advantage.  But this Leader of Leaders couldn't even stick to his own script.  Despite's what many think, Jon Hailed from Hall of Heroes Snow is not infallible. He's made EPIC fu&* ups.  Just as many as Sansa.

Quote

I kind of get why she didn't want to bring LF in. She was hoping she wouldn't need to owe Littlefinger for help, because she knows how he would collect on those debts. And I would guess that at the time she would have worried that if she volunteered the information that LF would help because he has the hots for her, but she would really prefer NOT to bring him in because he's really good at screwing everyone over eventually and is also jockeying for her hand in marriage in return for his services, she might have been met with an enthusiastic, "Bring him in! So what if he's crooked - we can handle him! And if he wants to marry you - well, you're asking us to sacrifice our lives, here - is it so much to ask of you in return?" She just got back from captivity with Ramsey (who LF had sold her to), she was never that close to Jon and doesn't know him well, and asking your female relative to marry someone to gain an alliance isn't an immoral act in Westeros. JON wouldn't ask her to do it, but Jon is exceptional in that regard and I don't blame Sansa after her trauma having trouble with trust.

It's why Sansa's choices didn't bother me last season and it hasn't bothered me so far this season.  She doesn't want to go back to being powerless.  She went through a long dark period with know say over her own life.  And what Sansa planned for the Karstarks and Umbers would have fit right in with the moving and shaking of Kings Landing.

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Right now, Sansa, Littlefinger, Cersi, and Dany are focused on the little war, whereas Jon, Davos, the Nights Watch and the Wildlings are aware of the much bigger picture.

Cersei, Dany and LF yes, Sansa is focus on both and she doesn't want Jon to loose site of Cersei.

Sansa doesn't want the throne no more then Jon or Davos does, but she lived with and because of them she has a valid fear and reason to keep their back safe, and she knows Jon needs the Vale so she has to find away to rid them of LF with just cause, if and when she finds info she needs he's done, until then she needs to play to keep the Vale in the North.

[KungFuBunny]

Can Arya take the face/body shape of any person or only those who are "dead"?

If she can take the form of someone still alive than she could kill Cersei if she takes the form of Jaime or the creepy scientist who made the MountainBot. It has to be someone Cersei allows to be "physically" close to her being.

I have to re-watch the episode - where's Ghost?

Sansa and her logic regarding punishing the houses who betrayed them, while I agree with John the children shouldn't be punished, John should be questioning the "advisors". Do any of the "old guard" so to speak have the new heirs ears.

[Growsonwalls]

We have to remember that Sansa and Jon had very little relationship growing up. Catelyn was possessive of her children and resentful of Jon and only Arya was close to Jon. Sansa and Jon are really only now getting to know each other.

Also, in Sansa's life experiences, cruelty has ALWAYS worked. Ned was kind and honest and he got beheaded. Cersei was cruel and ruthless and she's still queen. Ramsay Bolton ass-raped her nonstop. Littlefinger has power because he was literally willing to throw his wife into a well. One of the issues is that Sophie Turner is naturally very tall and mature looking but Sansa is still supposed to be a teen. She's literally had no life experiences that show kindness and mercy pay off.

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The throne on Dragonstone was impressively large, but ugly.  Which isn't to say I'm objecting to the work done by production design people.

I honestly think it's nicer then the IT.

[screamin]

41 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Killing Littlefinger is one of the easier things that Jon could do right now. Jon doesn't need assurances from the Lords of Vale. They all hate Littlefinger. They aren't attacking anyone for killing him, much less the King of the North. They are not suicidal or stupid. Robin isn't revoking his oath to Jon or ordering his army to attack him because Sansa is his cousin. No one is going blink an eye when Littlefinger dies and he cannot pay his sources when he is dead. 

And Jon knows this, how? He has to ask them to know that, doesn't he? And do WE know that ALL the Lords of the Vale hate LF and want him dead? Actually, we know some of them don't.  We know for a fact some Vale lords are LF's secret or open allies. They have benefitted from his patronage and would probably want it to continue. Like, say, Lord Nestor Royce, who was granted his lordship over the Gates of the Moon Keep under Petyr's seal, and would likely lose it if LF fell. More importantly, there is Lyn Corbray, who in the books is a really capable warrior and is publically LF's greatest enemy while privately his ally, informing LF of every conspiracy against him and following LF's directions to foil them. IIRC, there was at least one other lord who LF aided in murdering someone so he could inherit the title. Who knows how many more of those LF has among the Vale Lords and Commanders? Who knows how many others have plans for their advancement and benefit that they need LF for, or are being blackmailed by LF to protect him because he will reveal shameful or fatal information about them in the event of his death? We don't know. Most importantly, Jon and Sansa do not know the full extent of LF's influence over the Vale Lords.

If Jon did slaughter LF outright, any one of LF's allies could rally the Vale troops to attack Jon's forces on the reasonable grounds that Jon has treacherously murdered his guest under his roof, the Regent appointed by Sweetrobin who saved Jon's life and enabled his crowning as the King. It would be violating a serious taboo for Jon to do it, and make him look like an untrustworthy ally (to say the least).  I don't think Jon has it in him to commit such a murder, or the cleverness to murder LF undetected...trying to do it would be fraught with peril.

Edited to note: where does it say that Robin swore an oath of fealty to Jon? I'm pretty sure he didn't, also that the Vale is not under the jurisdiction of the King in the North. Robin is at best an ally, not a subordinate of Jon's.

Edited July 18, 2017 by screamin

[Colorful Mess]

27 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

What even grates more is that Sam already knew this information. Stannis told him at Castle Black and no one ever pumped him for info or acted on it. In this episode Sam even says that Stannis mentioned it. *facepalm*

Christ, then the whole 10 min Sam scene was again wheel spinning when we only have 13 episodes left. I thought he was going to find out something about Azor Ahai, or the children of the forest, or the Long Night, or why magic has increased, or even why the seasons are so wonky. He could find that info AND tell Jon "Hey I found out why our winters suck so hard, which is what fans have been wondering about for 20 years! Also - just remembered - Stannis says there is dragon glass at Dragonstone."

Maybe these dumb scenes continue because D&D were forever scarred and hurt by their pilot. Their friend-watcher didn't even know that Jaime and Cersei were related. So now everything has to be told at a pre-kindergarten level for the audience. Case in point: Jon telling Sansa in this ep "You're my sister but I'm king now..." Well, no shit Jon. Instead of dialogue where we see him emotionally wrestling with his new promotion (because that is once again, a BIG freaking change in his life) we have characters telling not showing, and what they're telling us isnt even revealing about their internal states. Instead we have to have this artificial Jon/Sansa tension (for what purpose? I dont even know). 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Colorful Mess

[benteen]

1 hour ago, J----av said:

 Tormund said "don't" after Rickon was already shot. He was saying "don't" because he didn't want Jon stupidly charging at Ramsays men himself AFTER Rickon was already dead. How would that make Sansa a cold bitch for NOT wanting Jon to charge at Ramsay by himself and get himself killed and force his men into Ramsays trap? Jon made an emotional decision AFTER Rickon died and was basically committing suicide (thank god for plot armor). Things like that is why Jon is a bad leader. Rickon was dead, there was nothing more he could have done. He should have rode back to his men and followed the plan instead of leading his men into a trap and getting thousands killed

The only thing I'll say about Sansa is that moment is that she went from using "they have our brother in chains" to convince Jon to lead an army against Ramsay to telling him on the even of the battle that Rickon was lost.

I read GRRM say a long time ago that the Riverlands is not included as one of the Seven Kingdoms.  As I recall, the Ironborn ruled the Riverlands when Aegon conquered six of the seven kingdoms and that did not include the Riverlands.  He liberated them from the Ironborn when he lit up Harrenhal. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

And, annoyingly, we're back to plot dictating character decisions too (i.e. SAM NEEDS TO TELL JON STUFF, THEREFORE SAM IS DETERMINED TO GAIN ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE CONTENT!). TYPICAL of this show, I know but it still grates. 

But isn't that Sam's character? He was sent to the Citadel to learn everything he can and be a maester.  So of course he's determined to gain access to everything he can and help Jon in every possible way with all the knowledge he can. I'm sorry, but I don't understand your complaint here. 

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

Jon and Sansa's "disagreement" stems from them coming from the point of two different enemies.  Jon see's the enemy as the Army of the Dead from Beyond the Wall which will need ALL northerners to be on the same team hence his building bridges instead of burning them as Sansa would do to the Kalstarks and Umbers.  Sansa sees the enemy as the Lannisters from the South. 

I think Sansa see's both Cersei and the WW as problems, I think she just doesn't want Jon to dismiss Cersei as a minor problem, from the Show we know she is balancing LF, Cersei and the WW, she and Jon are stumbling through it because: 1 different experiences and 2 different forms of traumas the challenge of trust and communications is the hindrance at the moment.

 

11 hours ago, anamika said:

This is my problem with the character exactly. Everyone is calling her some genius who knows all about politics because she spend some time with Cersei and Ramsay, but her so called 'advice' is useless. What does she want him to do with regards to Cersei? Like does she want Jon to go attack Cersei? Send men south? Hire security guards to protect against Cersei's ninja assassins? Send men to the Neck? Say something useful Sansa!! Dammit.

What more can she tell him except she goes after people who displease her, until she wins, she hates the Starks, she hates anyone who takes her children from her etc. as far as I saw the North didn't hear about the Sept yet, Arya heard it was gone, but no one pinned it on Cersei.

I mean when she was at Castle Black, they both spoke of what happened to them she should not have to come up with any more reasons.

She doesn't want him to loose sight of her in his rear view mirror.

 

11 hours ago, Francie said:

And poor servant girl. I sure hope she just happened to die and Arya took her face. And not that Arya just stone cold killed her to get her face. 

It was implied in season 6 that a person doesn't have to be dead to wear a face, when Jacquin took the poison and Arya was removing face after face until she came upon her own .

[AshleyN]

Well, I can see the Sansa vs. Jon fan wars are going to get tiresome really quick. Hopefully this power struggle storyline doesn't last too long.

Personally, I thought the most interesting part of the disagreement came when they revealed that both of the heirs were just kids. I can't imagine it was a coincidence that Alys Karstark even looked a little like Sansa, while Ned Umber could have easily been a young Bran or Rickon. It's hard not to see those kids and compare it to how the Stark kids were made to pay for the mistakes of their parents (even if in this case the punishments may lack the sheer brutality of what they've been through).

I also think part of the problem here is that the show has, whether intentionally or not, skewed the morality of the series. I hate to sound like a bitter book reader, but this is honestly the thing that frustrates me the most in a show that I generally love. Martin can be brutal and unforgiving to his characters, but he goes out of his way, particularly the last two books, to show that there are benefits and drawbacks to both the Ned Stark "honourable" method of ruling and the Tywin Lannister scorched earth style. The show on the other hand has heavily tilted the scales in the direction of the latter (particularly with how they've chosen to adapt the Northern storyline and the fallout, or lack thereof, from the Red Wedding) to the point where Ned's own daughter is calling him stupid. So now they have an audience that's been trained to believe that acts of mercy will almost always be punished and ruthless pragmatism is the only effective way rule in Westeros, and it's hard to reverse course on that.

 

Anyways, a few other thoughts on the episode:

- The guy playing Euron does not have enough charisma to pull of the swaggering pirate king act they're going for there. And since I really don't think they're going to introduce the dragonbinder horn at this stage, his "gift" for Cersei is 100% going to be one of her enemies, right?

- I too found the Ed Sheeran cameo distracting, mostly because I spent the whole scene half-expecting Arya to kill him. The fact that I knew that he was cast because Maisie Williams is a fan only increased this expectation.

- Speaking of Arya, she's clearly taken over the Lady Stoneheart role on the show, and given that I've always thought that Stoneheart was created as the ultimate example of the ongoing theme of how ultimately destructive the need for revenge is I'm not sure how I feel about that. Also, I'm assuming she doesn't know yet that Jon and Sansa are back in Winterfell and I'm hoping that she'll change her mind and head North when she does find out.

- I've never been as big a fan of The Hound as some fans, but I really liked those scenes tonight. Rory McCann did some nice work in this episode, and he can still deliver a one-liner with the best of them ("It's my fucking luck that I end up with a band of fire worshippers").

- The fact that Tormund is headed to the stronghold that The Hound saw in his vision strengthens my prediction that he's just the right level of "popular, but not too important" character whose death will up the stakes as we approach the endgame.

Edited July 18, 2017 by AshleyN

[Mya Stone]

I have dubbed Arya's Frey massacre as "Winter's Toast."

[kieyra]

I had to look up who Ed Sheeran was. I guess I don't care too much, because I loved it when members of one of my favorite metal bands (Mastodon) got to play Wildlings in S5, but maybe if I already knew who he was I would have been more annoyed. Both CNN and Forbes are treating it like some big deal. 

[stillshimpy]

40 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

If she can take the form of someone still alive than she could kill Cersei if she takes the form of Jaime or the creepy scientist who made the MountainBot. It has to be someone Cersei allows to be "physically" close to her being.

And just like that, my dream of Cersei being killed by Joffrey, or Tywin, or Tommin, or Myrcella (whatever her name was) was born.  

I would love it if the end for Cersei is being fucked with by everyone she claims she loved only to be backed across a room by a March of dead Starks, accusing her of her crimes, driving Cersei absolutely batshit before killing her as Arya Stark.   I want the parade of the dead to come for Cersei.  

 

Small problem of the Mountainstein and everything but I'm betting on the Hound being the one to take him the fuck out at long last.  

 

Not really speculation, by the way, just fond, fond wishes.  I love Lena Headey but Cersei needs a hell of a death scene and sure, I remember the hand round her throat and everything, but here's hoping Maggie had a blind spot.  If anyone has earned the right to kill Cersei, it's a Stark.  

[GrailKing]

9 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am not talking about her reasoning (which is suspect). She just seems to have always made excuses for her kids. I personally did not see Tommen as a traitor.

Nah, he was a young likable person, being used by his mom and wife and a dubious septon.

He wasn't made for this world, maybe the next one.

[SimoneS]

52 minutes ago, screamin said:

And Jon knows this, how? He has to ask them to know that, doesn't he? And do WE know that ALL the Lords of the Vale hate LF and want him dead? Actually, we know some of them don't.  We know for a fact some Vale lords are LF's secret or open allies. They have benefitted from his patronage and would probably want it to continue. Like, say, Lord Nestor Royce, who was granted his lordship over the Gates of the Moon Keep under Petyr's seal, and would likely lose it if LF fell. More importantly, there is Lyn Corbray, who in the books is a really capable warrior and is publically LF's greatest enemy while privately his ally, informing LF of every conspiracy against him and following LF's directions to foil them. IIRC, there was at least one other lord who LF aided in murdering someone so he could inherit the title. Who knows how many more of those LF has among the Vale Lords and Commanders? Who knows how many others have plans for their advancement and benefit that they need LF for, or are being blackmailed by LF to protect him because he will reveal shameful or fatal information about them in the event of his death? We don't know. Most importantly, Jon and Sansa do not know the full extent of LF's influence over the Vale Lords.

If Jon did slaughter LF outright, any one of LF's allies could rally the Vale troops to attack Jon's forces on the reasonable grounds that Jon has treacherously murdered his guest under his roof, the Regent appointed by Sweetrobin who saved Jon's life and enabled his crowning as the King. It would be violating a serious taboo for Jon to do it, and make him look like an untrustworthy ally (to say the least).  I don't think Jon has it in him to commit such a murder, or the cleverness to murder LF undetected...trying to do it would be fraught with peril.

Edited to note: where does it say that Robin swore an oath of fealty to Jon? I'm pretty sure he didn't, also that the Vale is not under the jurisdiction of the King in the North. Robin is at best an ally, not a subordinate of Jon's.

Jon doesn't have to ask the Lords of the Vale anything, this is the kind of thing that armies gossip about and would have been confided in Jon when the Vale's army was at Winterfell.  Plus, it unbelievable that any of Littlefinger's allies attack the King of the North and all his allies on behalf a dead rich man who cannot pay them. Littlefinger will be dead soon enough and the fall out will settle this debate one way or the other.

I was sure that I saw several Lords of the Vale raising their swords to Jon in the hall at the end of last season. I thought they were doing so on Robin's behalf, but I could be wrong.

Edited July 18, 2017 by SimoneS

[Mooncake76]

My favorite line from the episode: "If he's all-powerful, why doesn't he just tell you what the fuck he wants." - Sandor Clegane, on the Lord of Light

I need to rewatch the episode, or the Hound scenes at the very least; I forgot he had been to that farm house before with Arya, so the emotional impact of the scene escaped me. 

I realize this is the first episode of the season and they need to set up the pieces, but it felt slow moving to me. They only have 6 more episodes and I don't know how they're going to manage to tie everything together in a satisfying way. As much as I like Arya getting her revenge, the way she dispatched Walder and the rest of the Freys felt too easy and abrupt. I hope they'll do more justice for the other events they spent seasonsss setting up. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Mooncake76
Analness

[Colorful Mess]

13 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But isn't that Sam's character? He was sent to the Citadel to learn everything he can and be a maester.  So of course he's determined to gain access to everything he can and help Jon in every possible way with all the knowledge he can. I'm sorry, but I don't understand your complaint here. 

I agree that that's his mission, but to me, it's boring to watch characters do things that someone else told them to do, so that someone can execute the next bullet point of the plot. That's why I think some folks found the episode tedious at this stage. Plus, what he learned so far isn't really even that revelatory, because he already knew that Dragonstone had glass there. Similarly, Bran - instead of a living human with thoughts and feelings we just get a camera on the scary stuff. Why do other shows have characters that are real people first and not just plot generators? I've often seen critiques that the show is too on the nose which suggests that the writers seem to care about plot above all else. Am I'm watching a powerpoint outline of GRRM's story, or a story about real people? I don't blame the writers completely for this because they are adapting the endgame on their own, but they seem to take artistic licence when they choose, so I guess it would be nice to see more scenes like with the Hound and the Brotherhood (good character arc, character dictates the plot instead of other way around, interesting because you don't know what they're up to, and storyline is very open ended).

[Alapaki]

2 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Yeah, it looked like Wun wun but he died in Winterfell, could be another giant.

Well, I was thinking that might've been a vision of the future, after the White Walkers have (presumably) breached the Wall.  In that case, it would suggest that they make at least as far as Winterfell.  And that Jon is too dumb to burn the dead from that battle.

But it sure did look like Wun-Wun.

28 minutes ago, AshleyN said:

- The guy playing Euron does not have enough charisma to pull of the swaggering pirate king act they're going for there. And since I really don't think they're going to introduce the dragonbinder horn at this stage, his "gift" for Cersei is 100% going to be one of her enemies, right?

I'm assuming it's going to be either Ellaria, Olenna or Tyrion.  And since I can't see a Tyrion/Cersei reunion happening that way, my guess is Ellaria and/or Olenna.

I'd be surprised if they introduce the other horn at this point.  But, then again, with a single clunky expository scene they could probably make it happen.

[Growsonwalls]

Side note: wow Gilly is beautiful. I think she's easily the most beautiful woman on the show.

[screamin]

25 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Jon doesn't have to ask the Lords of the Vale anything, this is the kind of thing that armies gossip about and would have been confided in Jon when the Vale's army was at Winterfell. 

All the armies know all about how Lyn Corbray publically declared his loathing for Littlefinger before the Lords Declarant but privately conspired with Littlefinger to screw the Lords Declarant - somehow only the Lords Declarant didn't know about it, and thus got screwed by LF, who ended up with the Regency of the Vale? Citation needed.

The fact is that you're stating that ALL the Lords of the Vale hate LF and want him dead, when I actually named you two important Vale lords who are his allies and DO want him alive. So it's just not true that killing LF would be simple for Jon and with no repercussions. Not to mention you don't address the problem I brought up of whether Jon would have the stomach to murder his guest under his own roof after that guest DID save his life and his army - regardless of his evil motivations for doing so.

If it could be proven that LF engineered Ned's death in KL - a fact that Jon and Sansa are STILL not aware of - then yes. Jon would kill LF, because he would consider it a just execution. Without that? It would seem like cold-blooded murder to Jon, to kill LF just because he is dangerous. I don't think he could bring himself to do it (he even spared Melisandre after she burned a little girl to death). If he did make up his mind to do it, I don't think he could do it well enough to get away with it without nasty repercussions. He just doesn't think like that. Sansa might want to, but feel she doesn't have the expertise to kill someone undetected and get away with it, like LF has...and she would likely feel that LF, knowing from the inside how such murders are done, would ALSO have safeguards to prevent such things from happening to him.

Edited July 18, 2017 by screamin

[GrailKing]

8 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Oh, and speaking of Sansa and her wanting to reward loyal families, there is an empty castle and land to be lead over at the Dreadfort.  I'd like to think that Jon's not going to let that stay in Bolton hands (provided there's some distant Boltan heir somewhere).  I mean really, that would be just a little too much, dontcha think?

Technically it's Sansa's as the widow, but I'm sure she want to burn it down or give it to a loyal party. 

[Potanical Pardon]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

What I find fascinating is all of the kids we've seen grow up you can tell that they are older, but the actress playing Lyanna looks no different from last season.  Why is she not growing up?

She was put into cryogenic stasis at the end of last season and just recently released. 

 

2 hours ago, Francie said:

 On rewatch, I have this strange feeling about Arya. I think she killed those Lannister soldiers, after all. 

I think she did too. I kept going back and forth in my head during the scene if she would, but after it, I'm thinking that she's lured them into a state of ease. At the point when she said that she was heading to KL to kill the queen, is something she would say if she expected her next move to be offensive. That they laughed and didn't take it seriously shouldn't make her changer her mind about killing them.

[Advance35]

Also isn't Sansa in a dicey place considering the role she played in everything that went on in the Vale.  I mean she did help LF cover up the murder of Lysa Arryn, crazy as she was.  The Lords Declarant gave her a chance to out LF but she didn't know or trust them so she stuck with the devil she knew, much to her current regret.  If her role in the Lysa's murder were to come out, it could make things awkward around Winterfell.

I agree with those that say Jon and Sansa are the produce of their experiences and I ultimately think Jon is going to be the hero of all this.  I just don't think Sansa owes him blind obedience.  I'll even go so far as to say, on certain levels, I think Jon might be a better person then Sansa.  And by that I mean, I think he's more likely to feel for others and is more susceptible to compassion whereas, I don't think Sansa by instinct feels for anyone anymore.  And I don't think she wants too.   She's not Cersei or Ramsay, but I think she does view compassion and mercy as weakness and folly.

Jon's seen and experienced horrible things as well but he's also seen heartfelt heroism and altruism from surprising places.  I think this allows him some optimism where people are concerned and to be fair, he's been proven right in some instances.  There have been surprising heroes among the Wildings.  The Nights Watch is regarded as being made up of the down and outs of society, the undesirables for the most part, yet we've met Grenn, Pyp, Edd and Sam.

The closest Sansa came to decent people in Kings Landing were Margaery and Shae, and both disregarded any kind of connection they may have felt for Sansa when it became convenient to do so.  And to be fair again, it was a 2 way street.  During her testimony in The Vale after Lyssa's murder, she stressed that she had "no friends in Kings Landing" and I think she mean't it.  I  think she would visit horror on ANYONE else before she'd let herself suffer it.   A complicated outlook, but watching her story, I think it's an understandable one.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Advance35

[GrailKing]

8 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Me too!  Peanut butter chocolate...

If it makes you feel any better I was eating a chocolate chip canolli(?).

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

It was implied in season 6 that a person doesn't have to be dead to wear a face, when Jacquin took the poison and Arya was removing face after face until she came upon her own .

I think that was meant to be a hallucination as the faces' poison struck her blind, not an expression of how the faces work normally.

Indeed, last season reneged on a lot of what that scene seemed to imply even before it went all hallucinatory. Whereas that scene suggested that the Faceless Men were interchangeable, with the original Jaqen dying and the Waif taking off her face and revealing another Jaqen, the following season suggested that Arya's teachers were actually two distinct people, Jaqen being the higher-ranking one who's sympathetic to Arya, and the Waif being a lower-ranked one who's resentful of her. And whereas the earlier scene seemed to indicate that the Waif was just a persona from the Hall of Faces, when Arya kills the Waif and returns her face to the hall, it's all bloody, as if she had to cut it off the Waif's head instead of just peeling it off -- as if it were the Waif's original face.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Dev F

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I think that was meant to be a hallucination as the faces' poison struck her blind, not an expression of how the faces work normally.

Indeed, last season reneged on a lot of what that scene seemed to imply even before it went all hallucinatory. Whereas that scene suggested that the Faceless Men were interchangeable, with the original Jaqen dying and the Waif taking off her face and revealing another Jaqen, the following season suggested that Arya's teachers were actually two distinct people, Jaqen being the higher-ranking one who's sympathetic to Arya, and the Waif being a lower-ranked one who's resentful of her. And whereas the earlier scene seemed to indicate that the Waif was just a persona from the Hall of Faces, when Arya kills the Waif and returns her face to the hall, it's all bloody, as if she had to cut it off the Waif's head instead of just peeling it off -- as if it were the Waif's original face.

They seem to have a problem conveying certain ideas in the show.

[ParadoxLost]

2 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

I agree with those that say Jon and Sansa are the produce of their experiences and I ultimately think Jon is going to be the hero of all this.  I just don't think Sansa owes him blind obedience.  I'll even go so far as to say, on certain levels, I think Jon might be a better person then Sansa.  And by that I mean, I think he's more likely to feel for others and is more susceptible to compassion whereas, I don't think Sansa by instinct feels for anyone anymore.  And I don't think she wants too.   She's not Cersei or Ramsay, but I think she does view compassion and mercy as weakness and folly.

Jon's seen and experienced horrible things as well but he's also seen heartfelt heroism and altruism from surprising places.

A lot of the time I think its a lot simpler than this.  I just think that Jon takes after Ned and Sansa takes after Catelyn.

[tennisgurl]

I finally got to see the episode (I was waiting to watch it with my sister) and oh my GOD it was hard to both wait and avoid spoilers! Before I read all of these responses( I did read a few), I have my first thoughts:

This was a really good start of the season, even if it was clearly laying the groundwork for what will be happening the rest of the reason, without a lot of huge dramatic moments. Of course, with the exception of the opener, which started off as super confusing (wait, didn't he die?) followed quickly by (ohhhhh its Arya!) understand, and some rather dark cheering. Arya as Walder specifically mentioned that she/he only invited the closest Frey's who were directly involved in the Red Wedding, so I don't think she killed random Freys, so much as the guys who specifically wronged her and her family. She was fine chatting with those friendly Lannister soldiers, its not a Lady Stoneheart thing where she just kills anybody who is connected with the bad guys. I was actually saying to myself "Oh yeah, you all killed a bunch of half drunk in armed men at a party, an old lady, and a pregnant woman. What a bunch of badasses" when Arya basically said the same thing. It was messed up, but it was also pretty satisfying. Stupid Frey's and their stupid Frey hats. I did like that she met some nice people on the road, and they were soldiers on the opposite side of the war even (and one if randomly a pop star for some reason), and she got to be kind of normal for a minute. I kept waiting for something to go wrong!

Cersei didn't really learn anything from Tywin, did she? She alienated pretty much everyone except the Greyjoys, who even she knows are traitorous, and would have to marry pirate king Euron, and you know she wouldn't be too into that, even if Eurons new haircut is pretty sweet. I really wish Jaimie would just realize how awful his sister is. They made a big mistake keeping him in Kings Landing, and not allowing his character to develop elsewhere, away from Cersei. It makes him a pretty passive character, which he has never been before. He spent the whole episode looking like he's on the verge of smacking himself in the head with his golden hand out of frustration.

The further adventures of Sam Tarley: Unpaid Intern! A bit pointless, but I got something of a laugh out of his obvious boredom and annoyance at his crappy internship. I've been there, Sam. I've been there. Lets just get to him giving the information to Jon and getting this show on the road! Also, Gilly looked absolutely stunning in her one scene. Oldtown really agrees with her.

I really liked everything in the North, Jon is really a great leader, I thought his whole scene with the lords was awesome. Gender equality through zombie invasions! He handled things very well, and I think giving the Umbers and Karstarks another chance with younger leaders was a solid call. That being said, Sansa wasn't wrong to offer dissent, I could totally see her point. But, in the future, they should REALLY make sure they're both on the same page when they're going to speak in front of all the lords. By disagreeing with him in public, Sansa made them look weaker, and Jon and Sansa are stronger as a united front. If they can figure out how to work together, between Jon's military leadership and Sansas experience with intrigue (plus her understandably harsh outlook), they could make a great team. I'm just so glad that stupid flayed man is off of Winterfell.

The guy who plays Euron looks so much like Theon, its kind of creepy. Great casting.

It is pretty ironic that Sandor ends up with a bunch of fire worshippers. I'm glad they had a call back to him and the poor family, considering how controversial (and, to me, uncalled for) that scene was, and they had him show remorse and try to do some right by them, even if its too late.

I knew Sam would find someone we knew in those cells (quarantine?) but I didn't see it being Jorah! Everyone is coming together. Even Dany and company have finally shown up! That throne was pretty cool, although I do wonder why the castle was just left to rot for years. No one wanted it? Not even as an Air BnB or something?

[benteen]

Sam's character has gone deeper and deeper into wish fulfillment fantasy on the show.  The Night's Watch and The Citadel don't allow you to bring women but Sam get to have it.  Sam's father is a deadly serious man who threatened to kill his son if he didn't join the Night's Watch and give up his claim to Horn Hill.  So Sam steals his sword and the greatest soldier in Westeros, who hates his son, does nothing about it.  For a grim show, Sam's character lives in a bubble of wish fulfillment fantasy.

[Blonde Gator]

On 7/16/2017 at 10:36 PM, larapu2000 said:

Arya!! Girl, slayyyyyyyyyy.  Slayyyyyyy!

Little Lady Mormont for the feminism win!  (Please please please make Sansa want to also train to fight and Lady Mormont gets to help.....)

Sassy Sansa is the best Sansa.  Jon is being a condescending dick to her.  Period.  It wasn't just her "undermining" him in front of others, it was him dismissing her very valid opinion and stance on the treacherous assholes that betrayed their families.  Ugh.  And then him not listening about Cersei.  Jon Snow, you fucking tool.

I have to totally disagree.  Sansa is still a stupid little girl.  She has personally known two kings, Robert and Joffrey.  Would she ever have confronted either one of them as she did with John?  Or would she have confronted The Queen (either as wife of Robert, Regent, or Queen Mother) Cersei.  Not on your life. 

The only reason she did it at Winterfell is because Jon is her bastard brother, she was clearly out of line and should have been yanked up short.  Remember, this is a feudal society, and the King is always right.  There are very few strong women, on their own in this world, and Sansa is nothing without a man at her side.  She's lucky Jon didn't totally humiliate her in front of all of the Northerners for her temerity and stupidity.

[Macbeth]

5 hours ago, that one guy said:

So while it wasn't her intention, my guess is Arya has saved thousands of lives here by making a huge battle unnecessary.

I have to disagree with your assessment.  Unless those bodies were burned - The Night Prince will have a large reinforcement waiting for him at the Twins.  And for once those Frey men will be effective killing machines.

On the other hand Cersei unknowingly aided Jon Snow's fight against the dead when she took out the entire Sept (including all those tombs) with wildfire. 

[Clawdette]

I saw Neil Fingleton listed in the credits last night. He is a former NCAA basketball player (at my alma mater, UNC-goheels) and was in an episode in Season 4. 

So I decided to check out IMDB and Ian White, who played Wun-Wun, was given a credit for last night's episode, too (Giant Wight #1.). So Wun was present in Bran's dream but perhaps not in actuality. 

[paramitch]

I could have gone the rest of my life without watching that shit-vomit-grossout montage for Samwell. Thanks, show. But oh, poor Jorah.

I shivered when Bran entered through the Wall with the Night's Watch. I'm petrified that his connection to the Night King will bring it down (the foreshadowing was pretty constant in this ep, what with the constant references to the Wall standing for 8,000 years etc). (But on a lighter note, I was just so glad poor Meera didn't have to lug Bran around for one more second. That poor girl deserves a rest and a bath.)

I thought Arya's opening scene was fun -- at least it's canon now that the masks are straight-up magic, and allow the person to don the entire persona and voice of the object, not just the face. It was interesting that she spared the women (it reassured me that she's not too far gone <YET>, since I find Arya's arc so tragic), and I also liked her meetup with the Lannister soldiers. I actually enjoyed the scene, and wish the show had tried for a little more of this complexity earlier on --it's been so tiresome that every freaking soldier or group has been nothing but an incipient band of thieves, rapists or evildoers, when in reality even in the worst of worlds, there would be the occasional group of good guys just trying to keep the peace.

For this reason, I loved everything about The Hound's scenes -- they were funny, moving, and ultimately heartbreaking. It was also great to see Thoros and Beric again (and my weird crush on Beric continues).

Meanwhile, I'm so bummed at the frequent refrain that Sansa just wants to be a "pretty princess," or that she feels superior to Jon, or that she's an unfeeling bitch, etc. Why? Because she disagreed with Jon? Because she was impatient and dared to speak up? Because she was frustrated, scared, and speaking from her own fear of betrayal or worse?

It doesn't make her evil. It makes her a scared young girl trying to act tough. Was she right? No, I don't think she was. But I understood where she was coming from, and I do think she conveyed a valuable point of view that needed to be addressed, or it would have festered among several at the council and come out later.

I feel nothing but pity for Sansa. I do think she's going to make a ton of mistakes right now, because she has no idea where she actually is, I think, emotionally. It's why people who still don't forgive her for the death of the butcher's boy or the death of Lady just floor me. Sansa has spent years now -- years in which she was:

• Held against her will, berated, mocked, beaten, threatened with rape, forced to look at the rotting head of her father, attacked, and otherwise abused by the boy (and family) that killed her father and destroyed her family
• Forced to marry the brother of her abuser (even as mockery, threats, etc. continued)
• Framed for the murder of her brother-in-law by the creepy uncle figure who had betrayed her father
• Forced to marry a sadistic stranger who repeatedly raped and abused her night after night

That's why I have so much empathy for Sansa right now feel she's worthy of pity and understanding. She's riddled with PTSD and has suffered almost unimaginably for years now, and is just now even attempting to come to terms. It's no surprise to me that she's wearing Cersei's hairstyle, that she's trying to harden herself, to become someone who cannot be hurt. It breaks my heart because she cannot feel safe, and she'll do whatever she can to attain that feeling. I'm sure it was lovely to reunite with Jon, but she's also terrified he's just going to repeat the mistakes of Ned and Robb. And then the Lannisters will get her again. And this time they'll finally kill her -- or worse.

Meanwhile, she's got Uncle Creepy sliming around, and perhaps nothing showed the immensity of Sansa's journey than her cool dismissal of Littlefinger (with the witty, sharp-as-knives, "I'll pretend you said something clever") followed by her dry comment to Brienne, "I know what he wants." And her voice was just filled with every bit of contempt for men that she could muster. Poor Sansa knows all too well what men want at this point.

Speaking of which: I have to hope and think that Jaime is simply processing his abhorrence of Cersei at this point and that at some point he's going to have to act against her. I was really hopeful his final appalled look at her in the finale last season was the end of his love of her. I'm really looking for him to simply go, "Nope. I'm done." At which point I truly think he'll be repeating his actions against the Mad King... but against the Mad Queen he once loved. 

Last but not least, I thought that final scene at Dragonstone was stunning, the score was beautiful, and I loved the decision to keep it wordless. The first images of Dany's dragons flying overhead to the castle gave me chills, as did the slow walk up to the Keep. Just gorgeous, right down to that final moment and pronouncement: "Let's begin."

It was a great premiere overall, and I'm excited to see where we go next!

[Nanrad]

Sansa actually dismissed the night king as a minor threat because "there's a wall between them." So, she doesn't understand the seriousness of the night king and thinks that cersei's the bigger threat. She's really not telling him "don't lose focus of the south." She wants him to bring his focus to the south. 

[screamin]

33 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

She's not Cersei or Ramsay, but I think she does view compassion and mercy as weakness and folly.

Not so much that, as maybe that they are luxuries she might no longer be able to afford much of.

[Nanrad]

Here's the thing about Sansa: if she's afraid, has ptsd, etc, she shouldn't be projecting those fears onto Jon and trying to influence his decisions. I can understand why she is, but then there are those trying to validate why it's okay for her not to tell the commander that there is another emu near or to argue with him as he's declaring x, y, z. Not many are saying she can't or shouldn't do certain things, but that she's choosing the wrong times and places or she shouldn't make unilateral decisions when she's not the one in charge. We can saying "she it from her pov" rather than understanding why Jon may not heed her warnings, which is because she's vague. 

Lastly, it has also been mentioned that last season LF has tried to instill in her that she deserves to be the ruler and not Jon. Sansa didn't seem to reject this notion either. 

[Advance35]

Quote

That's why I have so much empathy for Sansa right now feel she's worthy of pity and understanding. She's riddled with PTSD and has suffered almost unimaginably for years now, and is just now even attempting to come to terms. It's no surprise to me that she's wearing Cersei's hairstyle, that she's trying to harden herself, to become someone who cannot be hurt. It breaks my heart because she cannot feel safe, and she'll do whatever she can to attain that feeling. I'm sure it was lovely to reunite with Jon, but she's also terrified he's just going to repeat the mistakes of Ned and Robb. And then the Lannisters will get her again. And this time they'll finally kill her -- or worse.

Definitely have to do a rewatch.  I didn't notice the hair style.  Though Jon's comment and your observation will probably give the whole scene a new flavor for me.  I never thought of her emulating Cersei.  

[Alapaki]

Can't vouch for it myself, but my wife read on a blog that Sansa's hairstyle this week was identical to Cersei's pre-walk-of-shame styling.

I do think Sansa is playing from the "what would Cersei do" playbook.  The problem is that, while I think many of her fuck-ups are explainable given her situation, "what Cersei did", by and large, was fuck things up!

[stillshimpy]

49 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

That they laughed and didn't take it seriously shouldn't make her changer her mind about killing them.

Except Arya doesn't want to kill people because she's a sociopathic killer, she wants to kill the enemies of her family, the people who murdered her family.   She's not a serial killer, she wanted to kill those who had made her suffer but this is the girl who got into all sorts of problems because she didn't really understand the peril in playing with the butcher's boy as the lord's daughter.   Micah would always be the person to pay the worst price and she knows that.  

Sansa talked about how their father never wanted them to see how ugly the world was, but both Arya and Sansa have, in lurid, sanity-breaking detail.    

The Hound was always on Arya's list because of Micah.   I know she's come a very long way and done a lot of horrible things, but Arya cared about people and injustice.  She admired knights and soldiers and those soldiers were acting like the men her father wanted her to believe soldiers were, at heart.  Simply doing a job, but not what the Hound claimed, not all men were born killers because they liked it.  Even good men.   Yes, I know that the Hound said most of that to Sansa, but Arya and the Hound hung out for kind of a while and she got to hear all about his life philosophy.  In the previously was the visit to the farm and she was horrified that the Hound had taken their silver, etc.  I take he hadn't killed them, as they were in a different location.  

But Arya has been viewing anything Lannister related as being like the Lannisters.   I do think she changed her mind about killing them.   I don't think Arya was going to deny the (hoped for) daughter of that man the possibility of ever even meeting him.  Or that he'd never know one way or the other.   I doubt she killed them, very much, she'd have been violating the guest right's in the other direction.  They invited her and treated her as their guest.   She can't kill them if her speech meant anything. 

She tested the good men and they passed. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by stillshimpy