Star Trek: The Next Generation - General Discussion

[LilJen]

Both doctors kind of annoyed me. Much preferred the holographic doctor on Voyager (almost nothing else was good about that show).

I've been rewatching beginning with season 1 and I'm thrilled that I've gotten to the Evil Black Sludge episode. Because it means the end of another character that annoys me.

[readster]

I remember when I was younger reading an article around season 4 of TNG, they were talking about what they could push on TV at the time. Sporting Skin of Evil and The Conspiracy as examples. I do remember watching Conspiracy as a kid and it was a bit grossed out by it, but it also had several holes in it. The first was when it was it was revealed the one captain met at the beginning was already under control of the parasites. It shoots the talk of how the parasites didn't have access to long term memories, which was talked in the in-continuity comics as a stable. The reveal was to shock Picard that they had been set up since the beginning. The next was when the Admiral attacked both Riker, LaForge and Worf. He really thought attacking them was a smart idea? Plus, when Dr. Crusher discovered the parasite, she wouldn't have checked Riker too? It was a cheap trick. I also got a kick that the parasites decided to infect the main council and not like: The President of the Federation, Leader of the Klingon High Council, ect. I got why the mother creature took possession of the Commander, because he was sent to all high order officials to interview them. Perfect for infecting them. However, there was a problem with that too. Was the mother creature originally just infecting people as she went or did she possession the Commander since day 1 and he just played dumb during his one appearance? 

  I also liked that their main plan was creating a beacon for them to follow. Especially, when they would have had to possess others to get to Earth to begin with. Because even in the In-continuity comic, it was revealed they were like the Gou'ld from Star Gate. They had to infect others to be able to not be defenseless little bugs. 

[rereader2]

Ah, well, Conspiracy was a sort of rip-off of TOS's Operation Annihilate--and both of them were a pretty strong rip-off of Heinlein's Puppet Masters. I doubt Heinlein would have minded, though, since he famously told David Gerrold (re: tribbles v. flat cats) that ideas are free, it's what you do with them that matters, and that they both owed something to Ellis Butler's "Pigs Is Pigs."

Edited July 24, 2016 by rereader2

[twinkietwin94]

On 7/23/2014 at 4:45 AM, SVNBob said:

And the Mission Log Podcast, which has been doing the same thing but a little slower, should be starting TNG tomorrow.

Edit: Actually, I was off by a week. They start TNG coverage on July 31st.

In case anyone else hasn't checked these out yet, I was so excited to find out about them in this thread and am now listening to them every time I get in the car. Excellent podcast!

[millennium]

On 7/12/2014 at 4:00 PM, John Potts said:

"If you can't take a little bloody nose , maybe you ought to go home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out there. It's wonderous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." from "Q Who", back when both Q and the Borg were scary.

Yup, second that.   It's a shame the series never quite lived up to the hype, but it was a great line.

[millennium]

On 4/12/2014 at 9:57 PM, Kromm said:

Kicking and screaming, because in my opinion back then (and it actually hasn't totally changed) most of the first season was awful.

It was only when some decent scripts popped up, when Picard stopped being so stuffy, and when Data and Worf both truly became interesting that I managed to get on board.

I regard the death of Tasha Yar as the point of departure from the tedium of Season 1.

[questionfear]

While I loved the risks DS9 took in storytelling, TNG is my go-to comfort show, because I can dip in and out of eps and feel like I'm coming home to an old friend. When I was a kid I used to watch the syndicated eps with my dad on weekends...good times. 

[TVSpectator]

4 hours ago, questionfear said:

While I loved the risks DS9 took in storytelling, TNG is my go-to comfort show, because I can dip in and out of eps and feel like I'm coming home to an old friend. When I was a kid I used to watch the syndicated eps with my dad on weekends...good times. 

 

 

TOS has become my go-to comfort show. Although I do still like to watch TNG but TOS has weirdly become a show I would watch. Only because the plot points seem so crazy. 

Edited August 24, 2016 by TVSpectator

[AndySmith]

I sometimes feel I need alcohol or drugs to fully appreciate the crazy of TOS.

[AndySmith]

Such a great scene and episode.

[readster]

Yes one of my favorites. Especially when Q told him he gave him what so many dream of and then saved him when Picard said he rather die the man he was. 

[AndySmith]

Another scene I liked from an episode I liked. Too bad Wendy Hughes' (RIP) character didn't become a recurring one, as the writers wanted. But at least we got a good episode out of it. And the callback to the "The Inner Light" was lovely as well; the tune actually sounds really good played as a piano piece. I always found there was something beautiful and almost sexy when Picard and Daren start playing the tune together, even if it's obvious the characters know nothing about playing instruments in real life.

[John Potts]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 2:20 AM, readster said:

Yes one of my favorites. Especially when Q told him he gave him what so many dream of and then saved him when Picard said he rather die the man he was. 

Great episode - my favourite line is at the beginning when Q goes, "You're dead and I'm God!" only for Jean Luc to reply, "Q! You are not God! The Universe is not that badly designed!"

[VCRTracking]

I always cry in "Family" at Picard's breakdown in the mud over what the Borg did to him.

[VCRTracking]

Quote

Another scene I liked from an episode I liked. Too bad Wendy Hughes' (RIP) character didn't become a recurring one, as the writers wanted. But at least we got a good episode out of it.

She was one of my favorite guest appearances. One I liked her as a person, second, the way she filled out a Starfleet uniform was very to my 14 year old self.

Looking online where fans fight over who Picard should be with: Bev, Vash or Nella Daren makes me hate shipping.

Quote

And the callback to the "The Inner Light" was lovely as well;

Me too. I know they didn't want to that much continuity stuff that often on TNG, which is a shame because I love DS9's later serialized seasons. "The Inner Light" had as great an impact on Picard as what happened with the Borg and it would be strange not to have addressed it after.

Edited October 3, 2016 by VCRTracking

[blueray]

While Inner light events weren't mentioned again, they did at least show the flute in a few episodes afterwards.

[AndySmith]

You mean like the episode that the scene I posted above is from? ;)

Edited October 16, 2016 by AndySmith

[Joe]

Because there's no thread for random amusing internet stuff, Data vs Idioms.

[blueray]

14 hours ago, AndySmith said:

You mean like the episode that the scene I posted above is from? ;)

Oh, I didn't even notice that and yes lol.

[azshadowwalker]

I can't watch Family. I found it very weak as a follow up to The Best of Both Worlds. 

How dare the Trill admit that their species has two biological sexes...

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, azshadowwalker said:

I can't watch Family. I found it very weak as a follow up to The Best of Both Worlds. 

How dare the Trill admit that their species has two biological sexes...

The odd thing being, of course, that the symbiont itself is genderless, which is why it transcends the actual biological gender of any potential host.  It simply takes on the memories, personality, and emotional makeup of the current host while retaining the memories, personality, and emotional makeup of all of its previous hosts.  So if you really want to get technical, the Trill are actually two DIFFERENT species, the genderless symbionts and the potential hosts, which can be either biologically male or female.

Edited October 16, 2016 by legaleagle53

[AndySmith]

Well, the Trills we got on DS9 were like that. The way it is presented here, the host pretty much loses it's personality and the symbiont takes over completely.

[Maverick]

On 10/16/2016 at 3:52 PM, azshadowwalker said:

I can't watch Family. I found it very weak as a follow up to The Best of Both Worlds. 

How dare the Trill admit that their species has two biological sexes...

At least there was a follow up.  Originally, they had no plans to address the aftermath of the Borg incident.   The next episode produced was Suddenly Human, but along the line someone decided that being kidnapped, having your humanity stripped away and being forced to kill the crew of almost 40 ships was worthy of more consideration that Picard staring blankly out a window after having an International Coffee moment with Troi.  It wasn't a great episode, but it wasn't horrible.  I hated Picard's brother and I would have socked too if I had to be around him for more than 5 minutes.  The most annoying thing I was left with after the episode is...why the hell are all these people living in France speaking with a Brit accent?   I'm surprised this episode wasn't banned in France because the notion of any Frenchman speaking the Queen's English would send them into a tailspin.

As for the Trill, I simply to refuse they're the same species as the one seen in DS9.   Bumpy foreheads instead of spots, the symbiot takes over the host, they can't be transported, the Federation has no clue about the symbiot.  Given all the changes, I don't know why they didn't just create a similar but different species.   As for that episode?  Utter garbage.   Beverly rejects the Trill at the end under the guise of not being able to deal with someone changing bodies like we change a suit.  Yet this is the woman who was perfectly willing to screw the body of her friend and superior officer because he was being inhabited by some rando alien who had her hot n and bothered (which, yeah, so the next poker night wasn't awkward or anything ,was it?) AND was acting all giddy about the new host showing up...until it was a woman.  Nice try, Bev, but we're on to you....you don't dig chicks.  It's cool, just admit it.   Everyone joked about Geordi's luck with women, but Beverly dated a slug, got freaky with a ghost that lived in a candle and when presented with multiple opportunities with Picard didn't hit it.  

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

As for the Trill, I simply to refuse they're the same species as the one seen in DS9.

Many fans agree with you.  Which led to the fanwank that the species seen on TNG are called "Tryll".  Same pronunciation, different spelling.

[yeswedo]

Note: I've edited the topic title to remove spoiler info. Feel free to suggest a better one!

[AndySmith]

Quote

Which led to the fanwank that the species seen on TNG are called "Tryll".

Some novels have tried to expand on the inconsistencies between the 2 different types of Trills. From Memory Alpha's page on Trills:

Quote

The inconsistencies between TNG and DS9 Trill were dealt with in the novels by suggesting that ridged Trills and Trills who could not be transported were subgroups of Trill society; both were mentioned or shown during the scenes on Trills, and the inability of some Trills to be transported was a plot point. In the DS9 Relaunch novels dealing with Trill, the ability or inability to be transported is shown as simply a difference between various Trill ethnicities.

The comics took a far different course, such as the Star Trek: Divided We Fall mini-series, where the fact is completely ignored. In fact, both Odan hosts are shown, without facial ridges but with spots. All Trills in the series are shown with the spots instead, no reasoning given.

In another novel, Forged in Fire, the ridged Trills are said to result from a strain of the Augment virus that managed to infect a Trill colony through visiting Klingon traders. However, those Trills did not seem to be interested in working on methods of restoring the original Trill look, with this "sub-group" having recently (at the time the novel was set) being re-accepted back into Trill society. This division among the groups possibly explains why Odan was so different from other Trills encountered in the series. The novel also notes that the Trill avoidance of transporters was actually a means of avoiding the nature of the symbiote being disclosed rather than the process being dangerous to the symbiote.

Of course, some inconsistencies are harder to wave away, such as nobody on the Enterprise knowing what a Trill was...but, if you followed DS9, Curzon Dax had spent decades working as an ambassador and had a decades long friendship with Sisko. Unless, of course, nobody was aware of Curzon's true nature?

Interestingly enough, they were planning on using the original TNG look of the Trills for DS9 as well. Here is a pic to Terry Farrell modeling the original look:

 

Quote

The most annoying thing I was left with after the episode is...why the hell are all these people living in France speaking with a Brit accent?

Didn't the actor playing Picard's brother not have a British accent? It isn't impossible, I'm Arab but I speak English with a neutral American accent. Maybe Picard and family grew up in the UK, or he went to boarding school there, or something along those lines.

With regards to Beverly and Odan...it wasn't a horrible episode, but yeah, the resolution was weak. It would have worked better I think had she been very confused and unsure of what to do after her night with RikerTrill, and been somewhat disappointed as well, and seeing Odan as a woman make her realize that a relationship with a Trill would have just been too weird for her.

Edited October 18, 2016 by AndySmith

[legaleagle53]

18 hours ago, AndySmith said:

Didn't the actor playing Picard's brother not have a British accent? It isn't impossible, I'm Arab but I speak English with a neutral American accent. Maybe Picard and family grew up in the UK, or he went to boarding school there, or something along those lines.

Nope.  If memory serves, Picard and family grew up just outside of Paris.  That's why it's always bothered a lot of viewers (including yours truly) that Picard speaks English with a British accent rather than a French accent.  Evidently, Sir Patrick Stewart just couldn't pull off a French accent, so the show just went with his native British accent and hoped that nobody would know the difference (and even if Picard did attend boarding school in England, he wouldn't necessarily have learned to speak English with a British accent -- there would still be a discernible trace of a Gallic accent, just as my former boss, who was born and raised in Berlin, still speaks English with a pronounced German accent even though she herself thinks that she sounds more British than German).

Edited October 19, 2016 by legaleagle53

[wknt3]

On 10/17/2016 at 9:46 PM, Maverick said:

The most annoying thing I was left with after the episode is...why the hell are all these people living in France speaking with a Brit accent?   I'm surprised this episode wasn't banned in France because the notion of any Frenchman speaking the Queen's English would send them into a tailspin.

 

On 10/18/2016 at 8:20 AM, AndySmith said:

Didn't the actor playing Picard's brother not have a British accent? It isn't impossible, I'm Arab but I speak English with a neutral American accent. Maybe Picard and family grew up in the UK, or he went to boarding school there, or something along those lines.

This actually could be one of the more realistic parts of the show. Accents change over time. 2/3rds of Shakespeare's sonnets don't rhyme when read with modern pronunciations. So we don't know what a French accent would sound like in the 24th century. And there is always the possibility that France surrendered early in the Eugenics Wars and there was an influx of English invaders that greatly changed the language. Turnabout for 1066 if you will.

[readster]

8 hours ago, wknt3 said:

 

This actually could be one of the more realistic parts of the show. Accents change over time. 2/3rds of Shakespeare's sonnets don't rhyme when read with modern pronunciations. So we don't know what a French accent would sound like in the 24th century. And there is always the possibility that France surrendered early in the Eugenics Wars and there was an influx of English invaders that greatly changed the language. Turnabout for 1066 if you will.

Plus, also in DS9 it was established that the Federation President's office was in France and also in Star Trek 6 there was a reference of being in Europe. So, I don't find it that hard to believe that Picard and Rober had English accents. 

[kingshearte]

On 10/14/2014 at 7:12 AM, Snarklepuss said:

How about "All hands abandon ship, all hands abandon ship!" from my very favorite episode?

I've now seen it I don't even know how many times, and that teaser still gives me chills every time.

And just to add a quote of my own: "Now would be a good time, Mr. O'Brien."

Edited October 26, 2016 by kingshearte

[kingshearte]

On 10/16/2016 at 3:52 PM, azshadowwalker said:

I can't watch Family. I found it very weak as a follow up to The Best of Both Worlds. 

The episode could definitely be better, but the plot with Picard and his brother has grown on me as I've grown older. I started to look at it as the older brother knowing that his baby brother has some serious trauma to work through, but has bottled it up so he can continue to be the strong stoic captain he's supposed to be. Robert, knowing at least a little something about how to push Jean-Luc's buttons, therefore proceeds to do his best to push all of them as hard as he can, specifically with the intention of breaking him, not to be an asshole, but because he needed the catharsis. When you start looking at it that way, the whole thing becomes rather more palatable.

Realistically, of course, he'd need a heck of a lot more than just one good cry to get past it all, but as someone upthread pointed out, at least it's some kind of acknowledgement that it was more than just a shrug-and-move-on-with-your-life kind of incident.

[BigBeagle]

From "The Survivors"

WORF: That was an act of unmitigated gall. (beat) I appreciate gall."

[huahaha]

On 3/30/2014 at 9:53 AM, Gilmel said:

Q: "How can I prove to you that I am mortal?"
Worf: "Die."

Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?

[John Potts]

I agree with kingshearte - I think Robert was using a form of "tough love" on Jean-Luc to get him to admit his pain/guilt and the fact that he got to bully his little brother was just an added "bonus". I do like the episode for showing that there is a limit to how much a guy can take before he needs a break (TV contracts/ratings aside, they really should have done the same after Chains of Command).

[VCRTracking]

I'm going to chalk up the crew members most of the time being able to be back to work after incredibly traumatic events as if nothing happened to Deanna being actually good at her job.

[John Potts]

...despite all the evidence to the contrary!

[wanderingstar]

Just popping in to say how much I love the episode "Timescape." It's an episode I could watch all day long. I loved when the show did time-related stories, and I really love the teamwork between Picard, Geordi, Troi and Data - though I don't like that Geordi gets sidelined midway through.

[readster]

20 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Just popping in to say how much I love the episode "Timescape." It's an episode I could watch all day long. I loved when the show did time-related stories, and I really love the teamwork between Picard, Geordi, Troi and Data - though I don't like that Geordi gets sidelined midway through.

That is a favorite of mine as well. I see why they did with Geordi as dramatic. However, the way it was, the whole cause/effect and what really was going on was pretty cool from story to special effects. I still love the warp core breach and Picard drawing the smiling face on it. Because it went from such a series moment to a WTF to very scarey in less than 5 minutes. 

[AndySmith]

I always liked Cause and Effect. The teaser scene of the Enterprise's destruction was great, as were the poker scenes where the crew was starting to figure out something was wrong.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by AndySmith

[readster]

Yes, Cause and Effect was one of those episodes that could have gone wrong, but went pretty well acted and filmed. I do remember they said they filmed the destruction of the Enterprise from 8 different cameras and angles. Because they wanted to just blow up one model up. However, each time it looked like a different destruction of the ship, but from different angles. Poor Beverly though, no matter what she did, she just couldn't keep her glass from breaking. The only problem was when the USS Bosman almost hit the Enterprise. It was like they were on instant inertia. I mean I get the Enterprise couldn't get out of the way, but why the hell was the Bosman just going forward so when Kelsey Gramer said they almost hit them. I wanted to say: "Why the hell didn't you hit your thrusters or try to alter course?" They just kept going. 

[kassygreene]

As I recall the loop for Enterprise was about a day long, but the loop for the Bozeman was measured in seconds.

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, readster said:

Yes, Cause and Effect was one of those episodes that could have gone wrong, but went pretty well acted and filmed. I do remember they said they filmed the destruction of the Enterprise from 8 different cameras and angles. Because they wanted to just blow up one model up. However, each time it looked like a different destruction of the ship, but from different angles. Poor Beverly though, no matter what she did, she just couldn't keep her glass from breaking.

It was probably one of Jonathan Frakes best episodes as a director. The repeated scenes could have gotten boring, but they are all shot differently enough to keep it visually interesting and as it progresses there are more long shots and fewer cuts so things move quicker and you get a sense of urgency and momentum from the faster pace. And definitely one of the greatest teasers in the Star Trek franchise - kaboom! roll credits...

[readster]

On 3/2/2017 at 5:02 PM, kassygreene said:

As I recall the loop for Enterprise was about a day long, but the loop for the Bozeman was measured in seconds.

Pretty much. As they said: "We noticed a temporal anomaly and then you appeared." From how I can even give the Bosmon a pass for almost hitting the Enterprise. Basically they were just on their merry way and then they saw clouds and when they came out there was the Enterprise. Like a car that backs out suddenly from the driveway and doesn't see the car coming down the road. 

[blueray]

On 3/2/2017 at 6:02 PM, kassygreene said:

As I recall the loop for Enterprise was about a day long, but the loop for the Bozeman was measured in seconds.

That was something that confused me about that episode. That actually makes more sense. Because I kept thinking if they were reliving the same day for like 50 years, won't have someone noticed? They wouldn't have Data to send a message through, but even on the enterpise everyone was having dej-vu. Unless it just became something normal to have.

[readster]

3 hours ago, blueray said:

That was something that confused me about that episode. That actually makes more sense. Because I kept thinking if they were reliving the same day for like 50 years, won't have someone noticed? They wouldn't have Data to send a message through, but even on the enterpise everyone was having dej-vu. Unless it just became something normal to have.

Yes, I agree. Why the Bosmon didn't have more experience was because they were in seconds. As I said earlier, it gives the Bosmon a better pass in why they couldn't get out of the way in time. They basically had a few seconds to react and I doubt it was: "PULL UP, PULL UP!"

[AndySmith]

Plus, it's possible if they had the same issues as the Enterprise was having, they wouldn't be able to alter their course either...their inertia might have kept them going with dead engines.

Edited March 12, 2017 by AndySmith

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, blueray said:

That was something that confused me about that episode. That actually makes more sense. Because I kept thinking if they were reliving the same day for like 50 years, won't have someone noticed? They wouldn't have Data to send a message through, but even on the enterpise everyone was having dej-vu. Unless it just became something normal to have.

Did you ever see the movie Groundhog Day?  The people who lived in that temporal loop never noticed that they were constantly reliving the same day, because every time the loop started over, their memories were re-set to the beginning of the loop.  Only the from-out-of-town weatherman (Bill Murray's character) recognized it as a time loop which he relived for 34 years before he finally figured out that the only way to break it was to stop being an arrogant, selfish, and self-centered dick and actually try to make a difference in the lives of the townspeople by putting their needs ahead of his own.

Edited March 12, 2017 by legaleagle53

[blueray]

I have seen Groundhog's Day but that isn't the case in the episode. In the episode, everyone on the Enterpise is experiencing Deja-vu. Crusher even is able to call the cards of their game in one loop. In the following one they are all able too.  Gordi remembers having his medical exam before and so on. And of course this eventually leads to them using Data to send a message. I was wondering about the other ship, however if what KassyGreene said was right, then they didn't have time to realize it as to them only seconds go by and therefore very little time passed and no one deja vu long enough to notice. Now if they did completely remember everything as Phil did in Groundhogs day, that would be more horrible and they'd probably all go crazy.

Edited March 13, 2017 by blueray

[AndySmith]

The Last 10 Seconds of Every Episode of the First Season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Thank God Tasha died and broke up the monotony of it all.

Also, I love how Geordi switches from piloting the ship to Engineering, like overnight, when season 2 starts. Was that ever explained?

[readster]

16 hours ago, AndySmith said:

The Last 10 Seconds of Every Episode of the First Season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Thank God Tasha died and broke up the monotony of it all.

Also, I love how Geordi switches from piloting the ship to Engineering, like overnight, when season 2 starts. Was that ever explained?

 

No, I mean when the second season started, there was the comment from Riker about how Geordi was Mr. Engineer now and Wesley was now the helmsman. Worf going from Red to Gold made sense because by then the transition was complete as head of security. Then again when Geordi went from senior LT to LT Commander in season 4, that was never explained either, just he got a promotion sometime after Best of the Both Worlds Part II.