Fix The Show

[Guest]

They said the food rations are half this season.  Hmm.  

I would love jumbles and crosswords but I think the average viewer dislikes that stuff except in small doses.  They do have jumbles sometimes but the viewer can't even play along because they give the solution during the spiel.  

I think they listen to feedback, just we're not the typical group they poll.  I think they want that 18-49 joe average non-Survivor-viewer's opinion, and we're on average smarter, older, more invested, more educated and more female.  And not going anywhere.  

They listened to last season's TAR audience enough to follow it up with a nearly all-BB season.  

[LadyChatts]

The whole reason they cut down on the food rations is they wanted to make being a provider a bigger role.  Essentially, they wanted to make it harder to vote off the Ozzy's of the show so this was to make their role more useful.  Except I don't recall ever seeing anyone step into that position this season.  I don't even remember seeing anyone fish. 

Probst also made up some kind of chore chart for each camp so they could keep track of who was doing what around camp.  I'm guessing that was used either as a table top or thrown into the fire.

Ultimately, I don't think Probst cares what the longtime fan or even casual fan thinks if it's not in line with him.  Some of this may be CBS, but some of it is probably Probst. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

Food rations were reduced...but everyone who went to Ghost Island made a big pot of rice for only themselves.  Things probably balanced out because of that.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, phlebas said:

That works.  I would add:

4. No "we're going to let them draw rocks, Jeff." Pick someone to go and own it. If you can't agree, there are consequences. 

I’d say to the winning team - come to a consensus or majority decision on who’s going to GI, or Y’ALL are the ones who will be drawing rocks.

 

49 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

Food rations were reduced...but everyone who went to Ghost Island made a big pot of rice for only themselves.  Things probably balanced out because of that.

That, plus nearly every RC having a monster food component as part/all of the reward.

[MissEwa]

On 19/05/2018 at 6:44 PM, KimberStormer said:

I would say the important things for me would be:

1. Always have a game (and you have to play?)
2. More interesting games
3. No idols outside of Ghost Island.

I agree with 1 - and yes, they should have to play. It makes sending an ally more of a risk. The problem then becomes that you have even more potential advantages in the game, which could be countered by making them time-limited. I can't even remember - have they done that this season? Last season there were a few advantages that were like 'you can play this at the next TC only' but I feel like other than the legacy advantage being limited to F13 or F6(?) that hasn't come up this season. 

Definitely 2, although I think this might just be time. We already have a RC and a IC in each episode, I guess keeping it a simple game means they're not jamming another mini-challenge in there (and they're not potentially replacing the RC, which was one of the worst aspects of Redemption Island). But it could definitely be more than just 'pick a box'. 

The thing that worries me about 3 is that it potentially puts the opportunity for idols in the hands of a small group, and it also means everyone knows who possibly has any idols. I kind of like the idea that anyone could find an idol (although it should definitely be harder and there should be less of them) - but then again wasn't this the case for a few seasons when Exile was first introduced? And those are some of my favourites, so it could work. I think this would also (mostly) eliminate them letting it go to rocks as to who to send, because it would make it more important to control. 

Overall I haven't hated this season as much as some and I haven't found it particularly boring (especially post-merge), but Ghost Island has been either an annoyance or a non-factor. With a few tweaks it could be great. 

[Wings]

This is radical but stay with me here.  Start with 2 tribes, and stay that way until the merge plus one bag of rice for each tribe to ration. 

ETA.  Then, of course, rewards are fishing gear and some comfort items before the big food rewards.  Maybe a coffee and a donut with the fishing gear. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Wings

[SVNBob]

8 hours ago, MissEwa said:

The problem then becomes that you have even more potential advantages in the game, which could be countered by making them time-limited. I can't even remember - have they done that this season?

JT's pocket idol that Chris got at the merge was time limited, and Chris even played a game to increase the time limit.  He just didn't play it and it went home in his pocket.

And I guess technically the challenge advantage Wendell got was time limited, since it only applied to that one specific IC that occurred right after he claimed said advantage.  And the Legacy had the same rules as before, so it was time-activated.  Dom was just the first person to use it on the first window instead of the second.

[Lamb18]

I think a season called Super Fans vs. Recruits would be very entertaining. People who've watched every season and know all the moves vs. people who've never or barely watched.

[Lantern7]

Andy from Reality Blurred makes suggestions. They won’t be heeded, but reading it is worthwhile.

[kikaha]

* Drop blindfold challenges where the contestants crash into hard, immovable objects. 

* Fewer idols.  I thought it absurd that after the F5 TC, Wendell and Dom were guaranteed F4.  

* No more fire-making challenge at F4!  This season that pretty well guaranteed that once Dom and Wendell got to F5, they would both get to F3.  

* Make advantages private.  Ghost Island guaranteed the whole tribe knew whoever went there might have picked up an advantage.  That helped turn the advantage into a disadvantage.  

* Go back to the old-style FTC format.  It gives each juror more say, more power, and his/her own voice, instead of getting influenced by the consensus. 

* Concentrate on casting.  More than anything else, that IMO makes or breaks each season. 

[ProfCrash]

There needs to be a total of one hidden idol per camp and that is it. So no rehiding the hidden idol. Once it is found and played, it is gone. 

[LadyChatts]

Personally, I'd like to go back to a 16 person season, final 4 finale that ends with a final 2.  But I know that ain't happening, so:

-No more than one tribe swap, and not so early in the game.  What's the point of a theme and starting tribes when they are only going to be together for 6 days?  Given time Naviti probably would have thrown a challenge anyway to get rid of someone, giving Malolo a win.

-One idol at each camp, one merge idol, and that's it.  Have to be played by the final 6

-Only one extra advantage in the game

-Casting worked this season because we didn't see a bunch of castaways we'd already seen before.  Try not to duplicate contestants from the past and stick them into some stereotype

-Show more relationships forming and dynamics at camp

-Less endurance challenges

Edited May 24, 2018 by LadyChatts

[MissEwa]

As much as I liked the result of this season and it would mean it didn't happen, the fire-making challenge is still bad. BUT since they're determined to keep it, idols/advantages should cut out at F6. There needs to be one 'straight' tribal everyone needs to get through to make it to the end. 

[TVFan1]

Show the entire intro when the show starts. This way, people will remember who is who with names, and what tribes they were/are on.

Get rid of the fire making challenge.

Go back to a final 2 instead of final 3. Hey, mix it up every season.

I don't mind the HII, but don't make it so easy to find. It seems there is always a player on every season that the same person keeps finding it. 

Limit the advantages.

No more tribal switches. The players expect it to happen at some point. Besides, it happens too early in the game. Keep everyone on the same tribe until the merge.

Have an actual reunion at the end where the players ALL get to speak about their experience no matter what place they get voted out.

Edited May 24, 2018 by TVFan1

[peachmangosteen]

40 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

As much as I liked the result of this season and it would mean it didn't happen, the fire-making challenge is still bad. BUT since they're determined to keep it, idols/advantages should cut out at F6. There needs to be one 'straight' tribal everyone needs to get through to make it to the end. 

This! If they are going to keep the F4 fire-making thing (and they obviously are) then it's utter bullshit that the idols still last through F5.

31 minutes ago, TVFan1 said:

Show the entire intro when the show starts. This way, people will remember who is who with names, and what tribes they were/are on.

I like this idea, but then there'd be even less time in the episodes so we'd like get even less tribe dynamics than we do now.

[LadyChatts]

Quote

Have an actual reunion at the end where the players ALL get to speak about their experience no matter what place they get voted out.

I get the contestants can laugh all the way to the bank with the $10k they get just for showing up, but I'd be annoyed at the same time that half the reunion show is still spent on the actual finale, and another 15 minutes spent talking to former Survivors (especially when it's absolutely pointless) and a new game show host (I'll give Probst that one as that was clearly CBS interference).  There was a lot Probst could have touched on this season.  I think we had one of the better casts in recent memories, and definitely some things that could have been touched on in more detail. 

[Oscirus]

Ironically enough the survivors were starved enough that they traded in their shelter for more rice this year. Happened around the time of the Michael/jenna boots apparently.

I like the fire challenge as the seasons go on, it will inspire interesting gameplay /betrayals as we move on.  My only real suggestion is that Jeff moderate  the final tribal better. Advocates should not be so loud that they don't allow the finalists to get their points across.

Also bring back voting confessionals and give us an hour for the actual reunion. We want to do more then hear blurbs from your favorite contestants.

[KimberStormer]

I love the new FTC format in general, but this one was bad, or badly edited.  I know they love Michael more than anything but there was way too much of him and so many people left mute.  I want them to debate it out -- having each other fact checking together is great IMO -- but everybody should get a chance to speak.  On TV.  I don't want it to be another chance to further unbalance the edit.

Final 4 fire challenge has to go.  It's not Survivor, it's some other game.

[MissEwa]

50 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I know they love Michael more than anything but there was way too much of him and so many people left mute.

I was a Michael apologist until the FTC and now I think he's a self-important ass so whatever they were doing backfired. 

I hated the idea of the FTC format but I actually like it - when, as you say, everyone gets to speak. The editing has been so lopsided this season but that it extended to the FTC was ridiculous. The outwit-outlay-outlast divisions are still BS, but other than that, I'm okay with it. 

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, maybe it's more just the editing that makes me think the new FTC format sucks. But that's kinda the thing, this way they can completely edit out people speaking. They couldn't do that with the old FTC format.

[Nashville]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:18 AM, Lamb18 said:

I think a season called Super Fans vs. Recruits would be very entertaining. People who've watched every season and know all the moves vs. people who've never or barely watched.

Isn’t this every mactor-loaded season ever?  ;>

 

On 5/24/2018 at 7:59 AM, ProfCrash said:

There needs to be a total of one hidden idol per camp and that is it. So no rehiding the hidden idol. Once it is found and played, it is gone. 

I’d say - something close to that:

1. Allow one, maybe two rehides per season - but no more.
2. NEVER hide an idol immediately at the start of the game, and NEVER do an idol rehide immediately after its play.  I’d suggest a minimum two-TC gap - but under no circumstances let the contestants know WHEN an idol has been hidden/rehidden.
3. Continue to ALWAYS have Peachy make the “If you have an immunity idol...” statement at TC pre-vote-count, even if no idols are currently in play.

Yeah, I’m mean - but I find the notion of entire tribes trashing their camp and surrounding environs looking for idols which aren’t there amusing in the extreme....  ;>

 

22 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

Go back to a final 2 instead of final 3. Hey, mix it up every season.

Mixing up F2s and F3s works for me - but not alternatively.  Randomize it so the players don’t know which final position they should be playing for at a minimum.  Hell, maybe even throw in an occasional F4 for flavor.

 

22 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

No more tribal switches. The players expect it to happen at some point. Besides, it happens too early in the game. Keep everyone on the same tribe until the merge.

I’ve been wanting for a no-tribe-swap season for AGES.

 

And I can take or leave the F4 firemaking challenge - but if TPTB intend to keep it, then for God’s sake set the last idol play deadline as at least two TCs before.  Give us a guarantee of at least ONE unpolluted TC immediately before F4.

[SVNBob]

A "fix" I just saw proposed on Reddit.  Might be a little OP, but still sounds kinda cool.

Take an HII, but attach a "bottle" to it.  Small glass bottle, narrow hollow bamboo piece... just some sort of container.  This HII only becomes complete once a blank vote parchment is put inside the bottle.  So the holder loses a vote to power up the HII.  But the blank parchment can still be used as a vote if removed from the bottle. 

So it becomes a choice: do you need the extra vote or immunity more at any given vote?  How do you use the "Message in a Bottle" idol?

One important factor.  If used as an idol, this would be re-hidden with an empty bottle, starting the process anew.

[LanceM]

Here are some of my thoughts.

Get rid of the stupid fire making challenge at F4,  I absolutey hate it.  I'd prefer they go back to a final 2 but I can accept a final 3.

Only have one swap (if any) pre-merge and wait until atleast the 4th episode to do it.  

More balanced editing. Stop focusing on only a handful of players and ignoring everyone else. There is no excuse whatsoever for the edit Chelsea got especially when you hear some of the end game players like Wendell, Dom and Kellyn praising her as someone who was playing the game hard.  So she doesn't give the most exciting confessionals. So what.  Not everyone has to be a big character.  build up these characters so people have  a reason to root for them. It also ruins the suspense during an episode where once you hear some of these "invisible" people speak you know they are getting voted out that night. I am only focusing on Chelsea here because her edit was the worst but this applies to Angela, Sebastian, Libby  and Jenna as well.

Limit the mount of advantages and idols. It takes away precious time that could be used to solve the editing problem I described above. I say one idol at hidden at each camp. That is it. Once you use it is gone.

If you need to have a double boot episode on a season please do it in the pre-merge. Why they wait to do it post merge is beyond me as they could better use that time to build up the end game players. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by LanceM

[Daisy]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:12 PM, LadyChatts said:

Personally, I'd like to go back to a 16 person season, final 4 finale that ends with a final 2.  But I know that ain't happening, so:

-No more than one tribe swap, and not so early in the game.  What's the point of a theme and starting tribes when they are only going to be together for 6 days?  Given time Naviti probably would have thrown a challenge anyway to get rid of someone, giving Malolo a win.

-One idol at each camp, one merge idol, and that's it.  Have to be played by the final 6

-Only one extra advantage in the game

-Casting worked this season because we didn't see a bunch of castaways we'd already seen before.  Try not to duplicate contestants from the past and stick them into some stereotype

-Show more relationships forming and dynamics at camp

-Less endurance challenges

 

wait why?
Endurance challenges are fun!
(actually imo i just want it to be like this)

the massive puzzle
the "how well do you know your tribe"
"final endurance for as LONG AS IT TAKES". i do not care if it takes all day.

those should be staples. 

 

ooh and one more

memory. because that's always fun. (much more fun than survivor puzzles)

[LadyChatts]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

wait why?
Endurance challenges are fun!
(actually imo i just want it to be like this)

the massive puzzle
the "how well do you know your tribe"
"final endurance for as LONG AS IT TAKES". i do not care if it takes all day.

those should be staples. 

 

ooh and one more

memory. because that's always fun. (much more fun than survivor puzzles)

It's not that I mind endurance challenges, I just think there are too many.  I like a balance.  If they are trying to make it fair, there are other challenges they can do that don't rely on pure physical strength that can be equal for everyone. 

I still miss the auction and the coconut style pecking order challenges.  One challenge in Vanuatu was a RC that was trivia about Vanuatu.  Every time someone answered right they could snuff out a flame of an opposing player.  Once that person had all 3 of their flames snuffed they were out.  Eliza wasn't happy she was the first female taken out and got butt hurt thinking she was at the bottom of the ladies pecking order.  And the pecking order challenge totally turned Marquesas around.

[Daisy]

On 6/1/2018 at 1:36 PM, LadyChatts said:

It's not that I mind endurance challenges, I just think there are too many.  I like a balance.  If they are trying to make it fair, there are other challenges they can do that don't rely on pure physical strength that can be equal for everyone. 

I still miss the auction and the coconut style pecking order challenges.  One challenge in Vanuatu was a RC that was trivia about Vanuatu.  Every time someone answered right they could snuff out a flame of an opposing player.  Once that person had all 3 of their flames snuffed they were out.  Eliza wasn't happy she was the first female taken out and got butt hurt thinking she was at the bottom of the ladies pecking order.  And the pecking order challenge totally turned Marquesas around.

 

me too. i honestly think Jeff (and I swear it has to be jeff),  does not like these type of games, but those are the ones where a lot of drama happens. 

[SVNBob]

On 6/1/2018 at 12:36 PM, LadyChatts said:

I still miss the auction and the coconut style pecking order challenges.

 

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

i honestly think Jeff (and I swear it has to be jeff),  does not like these type of games,

I don't think it's that TPTB don't like these challenges; it's that they're "broken" and they haven't figured out how to "fix" them yet.

Mike broke the Auction in Worlds Apart.  I think most people remember what happened there.

And after eliminating the opposition, the SJDS majority alliance broke the Coconut Chop by discussing how to rig the result so that the person of their choice won the challenge and the reward...during the challenge and in front of Peachy.  He called them on it, and when they said that was what they were doing, he called the rest of the challenge off and declared their choice the winner by default.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, SVNBob said:

 

I don't think it's that TPTB don't like these challenges; it's that they're "broken" and they haven't figured out how to "fix" them yet.

Mike broke the Auction in Worlds Apart.  I think most people remember what happened there.

And after eliminating the opposition, the SJDS majority alliance broke the Coconut Chop by discussing how to rig the result so that the person of their choice won the challenge and the reward...during the challenge and in front of Peachy.  He called them on it, and when they said that was what they were doing, he called the rest of the challenge off and declared their choice the winner by default.

I always thought what broke the auction was them throwing advantages in there.  Of course people are going to accumulate their money and wait until that pops up.  I don't see why they can't just go back to what they did before: food, both good and bad items, and a letter from home or something.  Lord know they have enough opportunities to give them idols and clues and advantages elsewhere in the game.  And I never thought that what Mike did was worth them cancelling the auction over.  I thought Probst lived for those kind of moments.

I had forgotten about that during SJDS.   

Edited June 3, 2018 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

2 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I always thought what broke the auction was them throwing advantages in there.

Same root cause.

Because they had thrown advantages into the auction, three of the WA cast were saving their money for it; Mike because he needed it, Carolyn because Mike needed it, and Dan because he thought he was going to be the star of the season and wanted that much more on his highlight reel.  But when the letters came up first and everyone present had the opportunity to buy theirs for the minimum bid, everyone made a "gentleman's agreement" to buy the letters, leaving the above 3 with equal funds still.  Mike still tried to balk, given a good opportunity by Dan blathering on (in another imagined spotlight moment) about his "greatest love in the world."  But Peachy caught Mike moving to sit back down sans letter (and sans paying), and questioned him about it, which led to the cluster.  Eventually Mike paid for his letter, and the Second Vote advantage went to a tie-breaker, and thus to Dan...and then on to Ghost Island (not that we actually saw it there).

Now, I don't think Peachy did what he did on purpose, nor did he realize he was blowing someone's game there.  He saw the agreement and was just making sure that everyone did in fact get their letter as they planned.  Same as a cashier at a fast-food joint making sure that everyone in a large group got their orders.  Nor did Mike technically do anything wrong.  He was playing Survivor properly; tell everyone you agree with them, even when you're planning to do something else.

But that moment made TPTB see a flaw in the auction, one that they introduced.  And since they haven't figured out a "fix" yet, they're not doing auctions anymore.   So Mike gets "credit" for "breaking" the auction, because he was the one that forced the exploit wide open.

[kathyk24]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:37 PM, Wings said:

 I remember higher weight losses. They used to fall face first into reward food and moan.  Now they put napkins in their laps and say please pass the cheese.  Okay so I exaggerate a tad but they definitely had higher losses in early seasons.  Jeff would offer food to lure them down from a balancing challenge, too.  The food auction was spirited because they were very hungry.  They had to stop that because their desire for food was trumped by a game advantage.  It could be reworked. 

And yes it is time for some quiz challenges.   I have thought of new ones that haven't been done.  Crossword puzzles and word scramble are two.  

They did?  I didn't notice. 

No one has mentioned the obvious none of the contestants had extra weight to lose. None of the men looked like Rupert and I can't remember the last time Survivor cast an overweight woman.

[Lamb18]

I liked the matching challenge where they had to uncover objects and remember where the matching one was or else they were overturning tiles that had an image on the bottoms side.

[Guest]

I saw some tv interview with Shii Ann who said she thought the edits were pretty fair and there weren’t many producer shenanigans but she thought they peppered their beach with squid sometimes because when they’re too hungry they’re lethargic and boring.  They don’t move or even talk much.  

[Daisy]

On 6/3/2018 at 3:00 AM, LadyChatts said:

I always thought what broke the auction was them throwing advantages in there.  Of course people are going to accumulate their money and wait until that pops up.  I don't see why they can't just go back to what they did before: food, both good and bad items, and a letter from home or something.  Lord know they have enough opportunities to give them idols and clues and advantages elsewhere in the game.  And I never thought that what Mike did was worth them cancelling the auction over.  I thought Probst lived for those kind of moments.

I had forgotten about that during SJDS.   

 

I remember the SJDS one. Jeff was maaaaaaaaad about that one LOL

but i always think really, you "fix" the auction by having the advantage with the food. and just be like "it's just food y'all." so if you buy it and get it yay, and i know some people never spend their money to begin with. 

 

and i think really if someone figures out how to break the game, that doesn't mean it will ALWAYS be broken. i mean heck it took from Marqueas four to SJDS to break coconut chop and that was because i think Missy didn't have any rewards or she was like "the ma" (i think this was before the ankle break too)

[Daisy]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:10 AM, Lamb18 said:

I liked the matching challenge where they had to uncover objects and remember where the matching one was or else they were overturning tiles that had an image on the bottoms side.

 

I think (and I know this is repeating myself coz i must have said it). these are what you have to do. 

1: Quest for Fire. I don't even remember when this stopped but having the whole elaborate set-up to get fire was always like. "Okay GAME ON." 

*2: Getting to know you ice-breaker kinda game. (First seen (officially) in Amazon). I really liked this game because i think you get to see the personalities more. you also see this type of goofy hahaha stuff during Trivia Quiz with the blocks. i think removing this from every season was bad - it's a perfect way for us to continue to know people, especially with all of the swaps. 

*3: Coconut Chop OR Some Game where you have to rank your tribemate. (and. how you "fix it") you don't make this a reward. (though it should) you make this an immunity challenge. There is no way (even if you were secure in your alliance) would you throw it then. 

 

*4: Memory. (my favourite ones was Fiji (probably because of the Lisi bellyflop) but the Amazon "memorize the village then answer questions" was also awesome). and really THAT would be so cheap to set up.... 

 

5: "Gross Food Challenge" i'm glad they started to bring this back to be honest.

*6: Let Me Tell You A Story. (Jeff's storytime quiz) why this stopped, I will never know. this was always so much fun and a "play along at home" type of game. 

7: Giant Puzzle Maze Race: (Usually final four but has been seen in other versions). this was ALWAYS my favourite challenge because you knew it was game time. 9 remains my favourite, but Cagayan had the amazing one with the turnstiles too. honestly, if this meant scraping all the puzzles just to have the GIANT PUZZLE at the end - do it show. DO IT NOW

*8: Fallen Comrade Memory Game:  I know exactly why this one stopped Tom v. Lex re: Lindsey v Kelly- but honestly, i think by now you can come up with questions that can avoid that yah?

9: Temptation Endurance: Jumping for Peanut Butter? Stripping for Peanut Butter? Negotiate for a Boat Ride in? Again. it lets us know (and care more) about the players, and it shows some stragey if you are playing attention

10: Auction Time!! Like i said if the point is to "unbreak" it. you do it by hiding the advantage in food. it can be in the first item, in the gross food item etc if people don't wanna eat it or whatever, fine their perogative but it gives us something fun to see, and it's fun to do (also. in this i'd let them share money etc. that's the best part, sharing money and bidding for food together. again. it shows more character. (He's a JEW! HE CAN'T HAVE THE HAM!!)

9: FIGHT TO THE DEATH Endurance Challenge: like I said I don't care that Tom and Ian Broke it. That was the point. and I honestly don't think it should have stopped. i think so many storylines have come out of this challenge (Rich stepping off, Tina/Colby fighting for it, Lexheria, Amber pleading with Rob to step down (and then touching the pole, and Jenna's whinging that she didn't move her foot), Lil's "I do squats Jon." retort, the arrow stances in Vanuatu, the Tom/Ian Show down. like. at this point. there is no way you're gonna buckle, unless you know you're safe (and do you even risk it really? - i mean the only one who had to was truly Rich because Rudy would take him (and he'd lose), he'd lose if he Took Rudy and he knew he'd lose Rudy's vote, and kelly made the most sense, and he still almost lost. 

 

 

and the ones i have starred.. I think those are what make the show amazing. We can "play" along. we can try to figure out where things are, you can remember how much you remember about the contestants, they're not just the same blob of people for the most part. 
 

[Hanahope]

They really need to drop or at least severely limit idols/advantages.  I was listening to a podcast where one person mentioned that since idols were introduced, they are found by men 81% percent of the time.  And that's after  25 seasons since idols were introduced into the game.  The person mentioned that this occurs because generally men are out gathering wood in the jungle for building and fire, where the idols, or at least their clues, tend to be hid, while the women generally remain back at camp weaving palm fronds and cooking food.  So something should be changed, either fewer idols or find a way to try and make it more fair/even for women to find as well, or preferably both.

I'm also not a fan of the F4 fire making challenge.  Both times it has favored an alpha male, who then ends up winning.  And it makes the 'person taken' by the immunity winner, seem weaker then they were, imo.

[LadyChatts]

So with Survivor on hiatus I'm going  back to binge watching some old seasons until the fall.  I never finished Vanuatu and just got through the car reward challenge (aka the car curse challenge) and it made me realize that Ghost Island missed the ultimate opportunity in reversing a curse by not bringing back the car reward and everyone whose downfall it led to.  I know they haven't had a sponsor in many years, but it would have been a fun blast from the past.  

It also made me think about the challenges, since I'm often a critic of how I think they've gotten boring and are too similar.  In the earlier seasons the challenges seemed just as basic and simple, but something about them still feels better than the challenges we have today.  Maybe it's just a variety or that they had more elements to them.  

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, Hanahope said:

They really need to drop or at least severely limit idols/advantages.  I was listening to a podcast where one person mentioned that since idols were introduced, they are found by men 81% percent of the time.  And that's after  25 seasons since idols were introduced into the game.  The person mentioned that this occurs because generally men are out gathering wood in the jungle for building and fire, where the idols, or at least their clues, tend to be hid, while the women generally remain back at camp weaving palm fronds and cooking food.  So something should be changed, either fewer idols or find a way to try and make it more fair/even for women to find as well, or preferably both.

Or... women with any desire to be the least bit competitive in the idol-finding process should, you know, opt in to the firewood-gathering and other out-of-camp activities which yield greater opportunities to find idols/clues.  There’s absolutely zero gender specificity about such associated chores; the only limiting factor is personal initiative.

 

9 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I'm also not a fan of the F4 fire making challenge.  Both times it has favored an alpha male, who then ends up winning. 

In a similar vein: please point out to me exactly which part of the process of making fire carries any gender bias whatsoever, else I’m compelled to call complete and total bullshit.  The only persons “favored” by the firemaking challenge are the contestants who bothered to learn how to make fire - be they male, female, or freaking blue emu.  

Firemaking has been an integral symbolic AND functional component of Survivor since S1Ep1, both at camp and in competitions - so IMHO if you know you’re going on Survivor and STILL step off that boat without having bothered to learn what you already know will be one of the most significant fundamental skills you will need in the game, then by Burnett you DESERVE to get your ass booted ASAFP.

[ProfCrash]

Going off shoddy memory here. The first fire making challenge involved two women, who sucked at making fire. I think Probst ended up handing them blow torches by the end of it to see if anyone could start a fire and they struggled with that...

The second fire making challenge was two men.

The third fire making challenge was co-ed and both women flat out said they did not know how to make fire. We saw Dom trying to teach Angela how to make fire.

Fire making is 100% on the individual to learn how to do on their own. It is something that they could be doing while they are at camp. They could be helping to make fire or set up a small area and practice making fire. They knew this season that fire making was going to happen at the final four. I have no idea why people did not start practicing regularly when it got down to 8 or under. That is bat shit crazy.

As for the idols, I suspect that part of the reason they are found by so many men is that more alpha men feel like they have to have an idol and go out looking for them because they know they have a target on their back. I think that the people looking for idols are the people who feel the most threatened and the people who are most threatened are the challenge beasts and those tend to be men. That said, there is nothing preventing women from going out and looking for or finding idols. The idols are not hidden in places that a women cannot find them or get them down.

I still think that the solution is one idol per beach per tribe and that is it. No replacement after the thing is played. Make people think about using it and flaunting it.

[NutMeg]

On 5/31/2018 at 3:22 AM, LanceM said:

Here are some of my thoughts.

Get rid of the stupid fire making challenge at F4,  I absolutey hate it.  I'd prefer they go back to a final 2 but I can accept a final 3.

Only have one swap (if any) pre-merge and wait until atleast the 4th episode to do it.  

More balanced editing. Stop focusing on only a handful of players and ignoring everyone else. There is no excuse whatsoever for the edit Chelsea got especially when you hear some of the end game players like Wendell, Dom and Kellyn praising her as someone who was playing the game hard.  So she doesn't give the most exciting confessionals. So what.  Not everyone has to be a big character.  build up these characters so people have  a reason to root for them. It also ruins the suspense during an episode where once you hear some of these "invisible" people speak you know they are getting voted out that night. I am only focusing on Chelsea here because her edit was the worst but this applies to Angela, Sebastian, Libby  and Jenna as well.

Limit the mount of advantages and idols. It takes away precious time that could be used to solve the editing problem I described above. I say one idol at hidden at each camp. That is it. Once you use it is gone.

If you need to have a double boot episode on a season please do it in the pre-merge. Why they wait to do it post merge is beyond me as they could better use that time to build up the end game players. 

Regarding the bolded part, I understand they're keeping the option of a double boot in one tribal for late in the game in case there are no medical evacuations. It seems to me though that we've gotten double tribal councils episodes pre-merge, either this season or/and? last, but I may be misremembering. These are two episodes condensed to the length of one. Which is always a good way to speed up the obvious votes, like any pagonging, which I realize happens post merge, so my memory is indeed faulty and these were most likely not pre-merge.

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Fire making is 100% on the individual to learn how to do on their own. It is something that they could be doing while they are at camp. They could be helping to make fire or set up a small area and practice making fire. They knew this season that fire making was going to happen at the final four. I have no idea why people did not start practicing regularly when it got down to 8 or under. That is bat shit crazy.

Exactly.

 

Quote

As for the idols, I suspect that part of the reason they are found by so many men is that more alpha men feel like they have to have an idol and go out looking for them because they know they have a target on their back. I think that the people looking for idols are the people who feel the most threatened and the people who are most threatened are the challenge beasts and those tend to be men. That said, there is nothing preventing women from going out and looking for or finding idols. The idols are not hidden in places that a women cannot find them or get them down.

Exactly: The Sequel.

In either case, I am of the firm and unwavering opinion (a) the issue (if there IS one) is one of personal motivation, not gender bias, and (b) the solution (if any) is for individual players to step up their game - NOT to dumb down the game further to accommodate players who can’t be bothered to learn the fundamentals, or occasionally walk their ass outside camp.

[ProfCrash]

I don't like the fire making challenge, I want to see it gone. I don't think it is going any where, which annoys me. All that means is that people who want to win need to learn how to make a freaking fire. One would think that is a skill that people who are going to through the application process for Survivor would be working on. Go to REI or Cabellas or Amazon and buy a freaking fire starter and practice in your back yard. They are not expensive.

There are changes that could be made to the game that would improve it but Probst and comp do not want to go back to the original concept, they think that the viewing audience will be bored. They keep trying to add excitement and encourage big moves and other things that are going to cause a temporary ratings burst.

[Hanahope]

The issue with the F4 firemaking challenge isn't so much knows or doesn't know how to make fire.  Its the fact that the winner of the challenge has also won the game.  By making the fire in front of the jury, the jury gets to see the person prevail.  Being able to actually SEE the challenge, as opposed to just hearing about it, tends to hold more weight in the decision making process of the jurors.  As was pointed out last season, Ben didn't seem to have all that many friends, but the jurors being able to SEE his idol plays appeared to trump Chrissy's winning multiple challenge immunities out of the jurors' view.  

So maybe if they are going to keep that firemaking challenge at F4, it should be done before the jury gets there.

 

As for idols, I still would like the producers to do some changes that make idol finding more random.  More placing clues in one of X number of food packages, or under one of the food challenge plates, or seats, or the sit out bench again, or at the treemail site, just mix it up more.  Hiding the idol or clue in the tree niche is getting old.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Hanahope

[TVFan1]

The fire-making challenge is stupid. Like I said before, this game is based upon VOTES. If a person can't save himself/herself at the F4, then that's on them. Votes determine who is out of the game. Why did they even put this at the F4 anyway?

[Guest]

I like it.  It favors the underdog who isn't going to be brought to F3 by the alliance that lands on its feet at the end.  

Though there must be a reason people don't practice, like the show doesn't give them enough flint to waste, maybe.  I still wonder about the firewood and kindling supply, too.  They must be shipping it into that island.  It's a tiny resort island they keep using over and over and probably aren't allowed to be deforesting.  There could have only been so much dried wood lying around naturally.  Keeping home fires burning at multiple camps for 39 days is going to use a lot.  

[Daisy]

58 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't like the fire making challenge, I want to see it gone. I don't think it is going any where, which annoys me. All that means is that people who want to win need to learn how to make a freaking fire. One would think that is a skill that people who are going to through the application process for Survivor would be working on. Go to REI or Cabellas or Amazon and buy a freaking fire starter and practice in your back yard. They are not expensive.

There are changes that could be made to the game that would improve it but Probst and comp do not want to go back to the original concept, they think that the viewing audience will be bored. They keep trying to add excitement and encourage big moves and other things that are going to cause a temporary ratings burst.

I hate the fire making challenge, because it completely eliminates the whole premise of the show.I don't usually tweet at Probst (or anyone famous what's the point) but when I read the reasons behind this it drove me insane. It was basically set up to save "the strong person" and eliminate goats. then quite frankly, if that's the reason - then you might as well have fire making challenges at every tribal. why bother even have votes at all. just fire challenge them out. 

i honestly think the #1 thing that could help this show is if a really strong goat won. then it's really look anyone can win, deal with it and move on. 

36 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I like it.  It favors the underdog who isn't going to be brought to F3 by the alliance that lands on its feet at the end.  

Though there must be a reason people don't practice, like the show doesn't give them enough flint to waste, maybe.  I still wonder about the firewood and kindling supply, too.  They must be shipping it into that island.  It's a tiny resort island they keep using over and over and probably aren't allowed to be deforesting.  There could have only been so much dried wood lying around naturally.  Keeping home fires burning at multiple camps for 39 days is going to use a lot.  

 

isn't that the underdog's fault? 

like make your move so you're not the underdog. you shouldn't be given a bone to save your life.

[Guest]

Usually, you're the underdog solely because the person who won the last IC knows they'll lose to you because you're technically the one who played best, I think.   

Underdog might not be the best term.  I think the fire making challenge is likely to remove a second goat and award a feared competitor.  Though I wouldn't call Devon a goat.  And I would've preferred Chrissy winning over Ben.  But I do think this season was better with Wendell in FTC and winning than the alternative of Dom/Laurel/Angela at FTC, with Dom winning.  And in both seasons I think it upped the suspense at the end.  

Edited June 8, 2018 by Guest

[ProfCrash]

The premise of the show is to get to the final tribal by surviving being voted out by your tribe. You have a shot each week to save yourself, by winning immunity. Heck, you even have a chance to find a hidden idol to keep yourself safe.  You fail to do that, you go home and you do not win.

Ben failed to prevent himself from being out, he should have gone home. Same for Wendell.

The fact that Production felt the need to create some ridiculous mechanism in order to try and get their favorites to the final is insulting. Production was not happy with the results that they were getting from the game so they changed the game so that more of Probst's precious crushes could win.

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Usually, you're the underdog solely because the person who won the last IC knows they'll lose to you because you're technically the one who played best, I think.   

Underdog might not be the best term.  I think the fire making challenge is likely to remove a second goat and award a feared competitor.  Though I wouldn't call Devon a goat.  And I would've preferred Chrissy winning over Ben.  But I do think this season was better with Wendell in FTC and winning than the alternative of Dom/Laurel/Angela at FTC, with Dom winning.  And in both seasons I think it upped the suspense at the end.  

 

 

no i got what you mean - but in my mind so what? 

like before it was final 2 then they had a final 3 so they'd "stop the goat" (which changed nothing quite frankly, because very rare does the third place person get any votes. they get obliterated. - quite frankly depending on the 2nd place winner they get obliterated too). 

Now they want to have a fire challenge at 4 to "give the 2nd strong person a chance."
so when that doesn't work and they start picking them off at 7-6-5, then what's the answer? 

there are a lot of people who take a "tough people to the end" mentality. 
there are a lot of people who want the "weak" person.

and i will argue you could be anyone and the thing you still have to do is convince a jury you've pissed off that you deserve to win. Just because the "tougher opponent" got voted out doesn't mean they would have won. and Jeff using the fire challenge as a reason "to make it fair" just spits in the face of the entire premise of the show.

I can only speak for myself. I knew Wendell was winning the minute Dom won immunity. the only reason why that wavered (even a little) was because his final tribal sucked bananas. and he still won. and to me it doesn't matter if it was by 1 or a landslide. he won. the whole point of winning the last immunity challenge is to choose the right who you want to sit with for a million dollar chance. Dom earned that right and he couldn't even take the person out that cost him a mill (to which i said, hey bitter or not, you gotta convince 1 more than the other guys next to you). and I can't say if Dom was flying solo if he wins in a sweep. (i don't see Laurel winning regardless but she's getting votes).

if they want to change it (hey it's their show change whatever) - then i personally feel they need to change the entire format because why is the guy at day 36 worthy to fight for his life with fire, and the person who gets booted 2nd and no-one knows him yet, doesn't? that player could EASILY be someone amazing in training but got the short end of the straw in immunity and got booted out. but hey they could know how to make fire and save their life but oop, that olive branch only gets extended to the final four. it just doesn't sit well with me. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Daisy

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

The premise of the show is to get to the final tribal by surviving being voted out by your tribe. You have a shot each week to save yourself, by winning immunity. Heck, you even have a chance to find a hidden idol to keep yourself safe.  You fail to do that, you go home and you do not win.

Ben failed to prevent himself from being out, he should have gone home. Same for Wendell.

The fact that Production felt the need to create some ridiculous mechanism in order to try and get their favorites to the final is insulting. Production was not happy with the results that they were getting from the game so they changed the game so that more of Probst's precious crushes could win.

I keep going "Who the hell is Ben?" then i remember. lolol
and yes. yes. he should have. ditto. Wendell. 

[MissEwa]

6 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

And in both seasons I think it upped the suspense at the end.  

To me it did the opposite, because in both seasons it was one competitor who was getting a clear winner/hero edit vs. someone we'd seen on screen hardly at all. Devon got a little more screentime than Angela but in both cases you knew they weren't making F3 over Ben/Wendell. 

I was thrilled Wendell won and he would have been out if not for the fire-making challenge, but I still hate the idea of it. It also lowers the stakes of the F4 immunity challenge - if you feel confident in your firemaking you're actually better off losing that now. I do think it can produce more interesting results - and sometimes better ones - but for me these wins will always have a feint asterisk next to them.