S02.E05: Forgive Us Our Trespasses

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

As the boys put the megachurch heist in motion, Craig has second thoughts; Javi surprises Smurf with a visit.

[patty1h]

I looked away for a minute and missed why Smurf was brought to the middle of nowhere.  I heard about Smurf paying $ so her family would be left alone and about a guy "leaving" after a job and that guy getting pissed at those words.  I'm at a loss after that - what'd I miss?

Edited June 28, 2017 by patty1h

[Joimiaroxeu]

Pope better hope there weren't security cameras recording and pointed toward the congregation after the way he kept looking back at Baz and J during the service. That'll seem suspicious to the cops, especially when they determine who he is and who he's related to.

And of course high AF Craig shows up to ruin everything. Guess he now has a sure alibi for the time of the robbery since he'll probably be arrested.

What was "the database" Baz was referring to in reference to J's blood and DNA?

Church lady is a freak. Given how religious she claims to be, it's interesting how she doesn't consider what they were doing to be sinful. It may not have been sex per se but it was definitely sex-adjacent.

[Shriekingeel]

The database referred to is presumably CODIS, the national criminal DNA database. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

I looked away for a minute and missed why Smurf was brought to the middle of nowhere.  I heard about Smurf paying $ so her family would be left alone and about a guy "leaving" after a job and that guy getting pissed at those words.  I'm at a loss after that - what'd I miss?

I think that she is to Javier what the guy she murdered in the first season was to her. The surrogate mama that left his family.

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Pope better hope there weren't security cameras recording and pointed toward the congregation after the way he kept looking back at Baz and J during the service. That'll seem suspicious to the cops, especially when they determine who he is and who he's related to.

And of course high AF Craig shows up to ruin everything. Guess he now has a sure alibi for the time of the robbery since he'll probably be arrested.

What was "the database" Baz was referring to in reference to J's blood and DNA?

Church lady is a freak. Given how religious she claims to be, it's interesting how she doesn't consider what they were doing to be sinful. It may not have been sex per se but it was definitely sex-adjacent.

I guess Baz doesn't watch cop drama's J might not be in the database but the familial DNA of  Pope, his uncle and possible father probably is.

I would say Church Lady is sex adjacent, but the hook is set with. Not knowing that Pope killed his sister in law during sex she has to think she holds the inside position on a man trying to live the Christian life but like most will ultimately fail to get rid of all sin. 

[Artsda]

Craig's a dumbass, he picked that moment to want back in? The rest better not give him any money or even let him on a job again until he cleans up. 

I liked Jay being welcomed to the family by Deran and Baz officially. The 3+Pope of them working together I enjoyed. 

So where is Lena supposed to be with Baz in a heating vent, Pope with church lady, and Smurf out in the middle of nowhere?  

I laughed at Baz and Jay trying to act like they were church members with their hands in the air. LOL

[Texasmom1970]

Ellen Barkin says baby in a way that it conveys so many different things. Sometimes contempt, affection, implies your a dumb ass or fuck you so well!

Craig is really going past hitting the floor he is in the damn basement now. He is still hot but he needs to get his shit together a bit.

[Raja]

8 hours ago, Artsda said:

Craig's a dumbass, he picked that moment to want back in? The rest better not give him any money or even let him on a job again until he cleans up. 

I liked Jay being welcomed to the family by Deran and Baz officially. The 3+Pope of them working together I enjoyed. 

So where is Lena supposed to be with Baz in a heating vent, Pope with church lady, and Smurf out in the middle of nowhere?  

I laughed at Baz and Jay trying to act like they were church members with their hands in the air.  LOL 

Well Nikki was home planning her future.  Me thinks that Smurf and J gives the proceeds to Javier ultimately 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Raja
autofill is fighting me again

[sugarbaker design]

9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Pope better hope there weren't security cameras recording and pointed toward the congregation after the way he kept looking back at Baz and J during the service. That'll seem suspicious to the cops, especially when they determine who he is and who he's related to.

Especially after the security guard realizes Pope was alone in the building jamming up the keyhole.

So the church puts all the money, uncounted and unsorted, still in the envelopes, in the safe at night.  I would think it would go to a room where money and checks are taken out of the envelopes and sorted.  And wouldn't long term members of the church use checks for tax purposes?

Edited June 28, 2017 by sugarbaker design

[topanga]

8 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

 

Ellen Barkin says baby in a way that it conveys so many different things. Sometimes contempt, affection, implies your a dumb ass or fuck you so well!

 

This! And the way she says it to J sometimes sounds so skeevy. As if she's talking to a lover. Speaking of which, I liked watching J train at the shooting range (even though I really don't like guns). But when Smurf sensually stroked his arm to help him squeeze the trigger? Gag. I don't know if she went lower and don't want to know-- I'm glad the camera cut away. 

And that non-sex scene with Pope and the Bible lady was weird--but still kinda hot. And how could she NOT consider that sex, even though there was no penetration? And how could either of them tolerate not finishing the deed?

9 hours ago, patty1h said:

I looked away for a minute and missed why Smurf was brought to the middle of nowhere.  I heard about Smurf paying $ so her family would be left alone and about a guy "leaving" after a job and that guy getting pissed at those words.  I'm at a loss after that - what'd I miss?

I couldn't figure out what Javier was accusing her of or what was on those tapes. Did Smurf kill his dad? And if so, he's willing to accept 300K to forget about it? Or so he says. 

I actually felt sorry for Smurf when the guys were threatening her in the wildernesses. I didn't think they'd actually kill her, but I thought they might harm her. 

And then she was alone walking and hitchhiking because none of the boys would answer her calls. I loved the look on the truck driver's face when she climbed out of the cab. I don't know what Smirf had been saying or doing, but he looked at her like she was a slightly deranged woman.

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Especially after the security guard realizes Pope was alone in the building jamming up the keyhole.

So the church puts all the money, uncounted and unsorted, still in the envelopes, in the safe at night.  I would think it would go to a room where money and checks are taken out of the envelopes and sorted.  And wouldn't long term members of the church use checks for tax purposes?

I think it was counted because Church Lady's bible study knew the goal had been exceeded.  But cash does seem weird. About the only cash collected is from kids given money by their parents to be taught to give. They just needed the cash to move the plot along

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, Raja said:

I think it was counted because Church Lady's bible study knew the goal had been exceeded.

I don't think it was counted because the church would've found the tracking device that Baz put in an envelope.

6 minutes ago, Raja said:

cash does seem weird. About the only cash collected is from kids given money by their parents to be taught to give. They just needed the cash to move the plot along

Right, kids and visitors use cash.

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, topanga said:

This! And the way she says it to J sometimes sounds so skeevy. As if she's talking to a lover. Speaking of which, I liked watching J train at the shooting range (even though I really don't like guns). But when Smurf sensually stroked his arm to help him squeeze the trigger? Gag. I don't know if she went lower and don't want to know-- I'm glad the camera cut away. 

And that non-sex scene with Pope and the Bible lady was weird--but still kinda hot. And how could she NOT consider that sex, even though there was no penetration? And how could either of them tolerate not finishing the deed?

I couldn't figure out what Javier was accusing her of or what was on those tapes. Did Smurf kill his dad? And if so, he's willing to accept 300K to forget about it? Or so he says. 

I actually felt sorry for Smurf when the guys were threatening her in the wildernesses. I didn't think they'd actually kill her, but I thought they might harm her. 

And then she was alone walking and hitchhiking because none of the boys would answer her calls. I loved the look on the truck driver's face when she climbed out of the cab. I don't know what Smirf had been saying or doing, but he looked at her like she was a slightly deranged woman.

Smurf didn't go lower she might be a child molester but knows how to cover up for the public, the range safety officer/firearms instructor was right behind them.

The near distance phone sex for Pope would be against orthodox Christianity but as in other areas there is drift. I heard one guy, well he was Jewish, teaching trying to avoid intercourse saving at least that for the marriage with the understanding that in today's world stuff is bound to happen.

Just coming off of Claws and Smurf's doctrine, which Church lady seems to share, that the ultimate prize can get men under control I can easily imagine a cut scene where Smurf offered some enticement to the trucker.

[lazylou]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Pope better hope there weren't security cameras recording and pointed toward the congregation after the way he kept looking back at Baz and J during the service. That'll seem suspicious to the cops, especially when they determine who he is and who he's related to.

 

What was "the database" Baz was referring to in reference to J's blood and DNA?

In addition to the national database, California maintains a database of everyone convicted of a felony since 2004 and in many cases of those arrested for a felony but not convicted.  That may include all the brothers, but especially of Pope, who is an ex-con.

Perhaps J's DNA will lead the police to family members, who won't be a match but may lead the cops to look for other family members. Maybe we are about to find out whether Baz is actually J's father.  It may cause the police to take note of Pope's presence at the church and his behavior during the service.  I do not know enough about DNA to know the likelihood of J's DNA being a close enough match to Pope's to bring attention.

Someone above missed why Smurf was kidnapped.  Javi is trying to blackmail her because Manny made a tape on which he accused her of murdering Javi's father and then laying the blame on the father for hijacking the proceeds of a big heist.  We saw him following her in the previous episode in his plumbing panel truck.

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, lazylou said:

Perhaps J's DNA will lead the police to family members, who won't be a match but may lead the cops to look for other family members. Maybe we are about to find out whether Baz is actually J's father.

Aha!

[lazylou]

I just did a little further research.  California is one of the few states that does do familial DNA testing and matching...but it is rarely done; since no murder or rape occurred here, J is safe.

In any case, California, even when it does conduct such research, does so only on a state level.  The state protocol rules out everything but DNA samples sharing the Y chromosome. So unless Pope is actually J's father, his DNA would not link up with J's given the methodology used.

So, the DNA issue is moot unless J is later arrested on a felony charge.

[iMonrey]

I don't understand what those little gadgets were - the ones they were sticking up under the seats in the auditorium and in the toilets. Were they just to measure the level of sound from the jackhammer? Or were they supposed to muffle the sound somehow? I also don't get what Pope's job was here other than to be there in the church at closing and jam the keyhole. Seems like J should have done that part, it was the simplest of all the roles. I don't know why Pope would have had to spend so much time infiltrating the bible study group either (his brothers don't know about his relationship with that lady).

I also didn't understand the ending with Smurf in J's room asking him where his gun was. Did he misplace it? What did I miss? Have to go back and watch again.

I was afraid for a minute there they were going to kill off Craig. I hope they don't. He's definitely in a downward spiral, and it looks like even Nikki is over him. J is going places, and Craig isn't.

Quote

Given how religious she claims to be, it's interesting how she doesn't consider what they were doing to be sinful. It may not have been sex per se but it was definitely sex-adjacent.

Well, masturbation is also a sin, so it's compartmentalization at it's finest. 

Quote

I couldn't figure out what Javier was accusing her of or what was on those tapes. Did Smurf kill his dad?

Smurf told J that she, the dead guy from the wake, Javier and Javier's father all pulled a job together, and Javier's father ran off with the entire take. Javier seems to think that isn't the real story and that she and/or the old guy who just died actually killed his father. We don't know which story is true. 

The guy who died (can't remember his name) was the guy who first took her in when she was just a teen and on her own, and taught her how to be a criminal. Apparently, towards the end, he became obsessed with remembering things and started making a bunch of tapes about his reminiscences. Obviously, anything he said could be potentially damaging to his criminal cohorts (it's a wonder none of them burned the tapes during his wake). So Smurf has good reason to fear what's on them, although she downplayed the significance as "the ramblings of an old man high on oxy." 

Still, they showed all those tapes in the dead guy's bedroom and I wondered why she would just leave them there if they could potentially be used against her. 

[topanga]

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I was afraid for a minute there they were going to kill off Craig. I hope they don't. He's definitely in a downward spiral, and it looks like even Nikki is over him. J is going places, and Craig isn't.

Yes. Craig, has become an even bigger loser, but I like his character and is easy on the eyes. 

The show seems to be foreshadowing a J--Nicky reunion, which I'm not exactly thrilled about. J is too good for Nicky, though he's becoming a true bad boy like his uncles. And did he shower with the bathroom door open? People in this family know nothing about boundaries.

[Dowel Jones]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Were they just to measure the level of sound from the jackhammer? Or were they supposed to muffle the sound somehow?

The aerosol stuff that they sprayed all over the inventory room was to muffle the sound of the jackhammers, so I assume that the decibel meters were installed for that reason, so that the drilling wouldn't start until it was ready.  I don't get the placement of a device in the auditorium; no one was there to check it.

Maybe the brothers should invest in some safecracking skills.  Opening the safe on site seems a whole lot faster than smuggling in tons of gear and hinging your entire breakout on the hope that every single thing will go exactly right.  But that's what television is built on, I guess. 

For the first time, Smurf looked disconcerted after Javi laid that threat down and dumped her out in the wilderness.  In real life, there was probably some freeway just out of camera range.

For that size of a heist, detectives would be all over that church, looking at all the CCTV (there were several cameras).  If they notice the guys acting oddly during the service, then they have faces to go by.  If they can even match a face and investigation leads to a name, just looking at the house will raise suspicion.  All those cars and toys and an upscale house with no income?  Hmmm.  Looks like more investigation is needed.  Not good, guys. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Dowel Jones

[iMonrey]

Quote

The show seems to be foreshadowing a J--Nicky reunion, which I'm not exactly thrilled about. J is too good for Nicky, though he's becoming a true bad boy like his uncles. And did he shower with the bathroom door open? People in this family know nothing about boundaries.

It was no accident that Smurf moved J into Deran's old bedroom, which has an adjoining bathroom with Nikki's room. There wasn't even any reason to move him in the first place, I wonder why he didn't even ask her why he should change rooms. I can't see anything better about Deran's room than Pope's old room, where he was before.

Quote

All those cars and toys and an upscale house with no income? 

Rental properties. That's their "legal" business. They own a bunch of properties and the boys are salaried as "property managers."

The costuming on this show continues to baffle me. We constantly see them wearing long-sleeved jackets. It's San Diego. Unless it's raining and it's in the middle of February, it can't be less than 70 degrees outside.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Well, masturbation is also a sin, so it's compartmentalization at it's finest.

Some Protestant denominations don't really care about that--in a lessor of two evils kind of way--but I'd think activity involving other people's genitalia would seem to be closer to a dancing with the devil, leading unto temptation thing. Pope is no innocent but Church Lady certainly does seem to be acting like a classic tease. It's unclear to me whether she's deliberately trying to entice him or if she's just that lacking in self-awareness.

Quote

So, the DNA issue is moot unless J is later arrested on a felony charge.

Now they can't afford to have J in on any more jobs for fear he'll get injured again or leave hair or skin behind. Plus, what if he's a victim of someone else's crime and the cops run everybody's DNA to sort out suspects?

Quote

The show seems to be foreshadowing a J--Nicky reunion, which I'm not exactly thrilled about.

Especially since it'll probably lead to a WTD? situation between J and Craig. One way or another, J's DNA is likely to blow up the family.

[Raja]

22 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Some Protestant denominations don't really care about that--in a lessor of two evils kind of way--but I'd think activity involving other people's genitalia would seem to be closer to a dancing with the devil, leading unto temptation thing. Pope is no innocent but Church Lady certainly does seem to be acting like a classic tease. It's unclear to me whether she's deliberately trying to entice him or if she's just that lacking in self-awareness.

 

I was thinking that the Church Lady was ready to do the full deed when Pope stopped her by pulling the God card to stall in the office until the other couple left. So plan B.

[Laurie4H]

You all call Craig a loser but aren't they all kind of losers considering they are criminals?  That being said....it's a great show and I wish more people knew about it.

[iMonrey]

That's the genius of the show, Laurie4H. Pope is an actual damn murderer but we consider Craig "the loser." LOL. As far as I know, Pope is the only one who has actually murdered anyone. Besides Smurf, obviously. But - within the context of their own morality (or lack thereof), Baz, Pope, Deran and J all seem to have their shit together. Craig is just an out of control hedonist. Last season it seemed like Pope was going to be the wildcard that endangered them all due to his bipolar disorder, but now it's Craig who's potentially the most damaging. 

[lazylou]

Smurf moves Deran out of his room just to let him know he is out of her life.  Moving J to Deran's room not only moves J closer to Nikki, but it makes the point to Deran that he is out.  Was she just outside his bar when she is taken by Javi?  And if so, what happened, I wonder, to all of Deran's trophies and other treasured possessions?

J knows better than to argue with Smurf about his room.  

Why does she have his gun in the final scene? I am a little confused...  and was Nicki babysitting for Lena?  It is a nuisance for the writers to have to account for her whereabouts!  Maybe she is about to be whisked off to Mexico to live with Lucy and Lucy's son.

[sugarbaker design]

I could be wrong, but I thought Smurf was making the point that J should know where his gun is at all times.  The 'keep shooting' part is because shit is about to go down between Javi's posse and the Cody's.

51 minutes ago, lazylou said:

Maybe she is about to be whisked off to Mexico to live with Lucy and Lucy's son.

Anywhere would be better than with Baz, Pope or Smurf.

Edited June 28, 2017 by sugarbaker design

[Chaos Theory]

On 6/27/2017 at 11:43 PM, patty1h said:

I looked away for a minute and missed why Smurf was brought to the middle of nowhere.  I heard about Smurf paying $ so her family would be left alone and about a guy "leaving" after a job and that guy getting pissed at those words.  I'm at a loss after that - what'd I miss?

Javier alluded to a job that his father, Smurf and the guy she was giving money to each month to leave her alone.  Smurf claimed Javier father ran off with the entire score but the guy dying and high on meds started to ramble on about how Smurf was the one who stole the money and killed Javier's father.   Of course there is no proof to this but Smurf is hoping she can pay her way out of it because she is "probably" guilty.   And Javier claims to have a tape of either her doing something bad or the now dead guy ramblings which he will give to police which even if they are unsubstantiated ramblings of a dead criminal hopped up on dying mans drugs would put the police right back on Smurf's ass.      Hell it doesn't really matter if this is true or not.  We all know there are plenty of other skeletons in Smurf's closet that if anyone sniffed out she'd be up shit creek with a paddle. 

 

17 hours ago, iMonrey said:

That's the genius of the show, Laurie4H. Pope is an actual damn murderer but we consider Craig "the loser." LOL. As far as I know, Pope is the only one who has actually murdered anyone. Besides Smurf, obviously. But - within the context of their own morality (or lack thereof), Baz, Pope, Deran and J all seem to have their shit together. Craig is just an out of control hedonist. Last season it seemed like Pope was going to be the wildcard that endangered them all due to his bipolar disorder, but now it's Craig who's potentially the most damaging. 

Pope is also showing signs of remorse and doubt.  When watching shows like this you do need to let go of black and white morality.  If Pope went to prison for his murder his story would be over and what fun would that be?  So feeling guilty and being genuinely concerned about Lena amounts to a sort of developing moral code and need to be enough or "enoughish".    Plus it is entertaining to watch him develop feelings for someone his family is in the process of robbing.    Craig is just a hot mess and seems to be ok with that.  No he hasn't done anything remarkably bad except maybe letting his drug dealing girlfriend in season one OD without actually helping.  When she asked him to find the guy who robbed her (he robbed her) he beat up an innocent guy.   Besides some random crimes that is the worst thing he has done.   And yet I would say he is the most messed up.  He is the one I am the most worried about because he is out of control while everyone else has some sort of thing at least tying them down.  Even Baz who is walking Douchebag has the girlfriend.   And Deran has the bar.  Craig has nothing holding him together which is a problem.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[MrWhyt]

6 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

You all call Craig a loser but aren't they all kind of losers considering they are criminals?  That being said....it's a great show and I wish more people knew about it.

There is a difference (at least to me) between a bunch of criminals who have their shit together (mostly) and a criminal who's a drug addicted fuck up.  Craig is the latter.

[Artsda]

3 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

You all call Craig a loser but aren't they all kind of losers considering they are criminals?  

They may be criminals, but they are working. We see them smart working to achieve goals. Jay still goes to school, Deran and his bar etc..

All Craig does is have sex with a teen, do coke and drugs, burn his house down. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Artsda

[Raja]

8 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

You all call Craig a loser but aren't they all kind of losers considering they are criminals?  That being said....it's a great show and I wish more people knew about it.

I can think of a few movies, but not a TV series that was given a full run and time to finish the story where the criminal did win. Not being on ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC or the WB makes it more likely that a show will have the time for the criminal, who didn't spend time as a wage slave and who had all the sex with multiple partners that he can stand,  will eventually go down, probably in a horrible way. But one day on one of these series the criminal will walk away in the end as happened occasionally on Law & Order episodes.

[lazylou]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I can think of a few movies, but not a TV series that was given a full run and time to finish the story where the criminal did win. Not being on ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC or the WB makes it more likely that a show will have the time for the criminal, who didn't spend time as a wage slave and who had all the sex with multiple partners that he can stand,  will eventually go down, probably in a horrible way. But one day on one of these series the criminal will walk away in the end as happened occasionally on Law & Order episodes.

Watch Peaky Blinders...another crime family is allowed some wins...on Netflix.  Also with Finn Cole.

[Chaos Theory]

With a lot of shows morality is a bit of a moving target.  I am a lot more forgiving of shows where you are watching criminals be criminals and then occasionally find some moral Center then I am with a cop show where the cops go rogue all the time.

[iMonrey]

Everyone on this show is amoral. It's just within the context of their functionality that Craig is the "loser" of the bunch. 

[MaggieG]

On 6/28/2017 at 1:39 PM, iMonrey said:

The costuming on this show continues to baffle me. We constantly see them wearing long-sleeved jackets. It's San Diego. Unless it's raining and it's in the middle of February, it can't be less than 70 degrees outside.

Did you also notice when J was complaining that it was freezing inside the vent, Deran said "it's unusually hot today" yet he was wearing a hoodie.

On 6/28/2017 at 0:42 PM, iMonrey said:

I was afraid for a minute there they were going to kill off Craig. I hope they don't. He's definitely in a downward spiral, and it looks like even Nikki is over him. J is going places, and Craig isn't.

 

I'm normally extremely annoyed by Nicky but I actually liked her when she yelled at Craig and told him to basically get his shit together.

Showing some shallowness here but I kinda hope Javi sticks around because he is hot

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Showing some shallowness here but I kinda hope Javi sticks around because he is hot

Same here, but unlike the brothers Cody, I hope Javi dresses fittingly to the high temps of San Diego.

[wait.what]

I kept waiting for Lucy and her brother (yes I know he wasn't there, but I thought maybe he was hiding !) to rob Baz in that scene. Wouldn't that be a twist? Lucy knew Baz was working on a big job. All she had to do is wait for him to return with his loot and steal it!!!!

isnt Lucy's family a similar family of thieves  in Mexico?

[tennisgurl]

Oh Craig. You totally fuck up of a human being. Thank God your pretty. I mean, damn, when even his coke snorting underage girlfriend is telling him to get his shit together, you know things have gotten bad. He is just turning into a huge liability to the family business, I'm not surprised that they ditched him for J.

It was weirdly sweet seeing Deren and Baz finally welcome J into the family, and show some actual concern when he got hurt, even if it was after doing something that they got him to do in the first place. I mean, its awful that J is getting dragged into his family's criminal lifestyle (and his creepy grandma), but its welcome to see people actually being nice to him.

I totally think they might have Nikki and J get back together, but I hope they don't, because, for one thing, they seem to be in a good place, for a second thing, Nikki doesn't need more screen time, and for a third thing, even while going further into his uncles criminal world, he is STILL too good for her.

I wasn't too worried for Smurf, she is pretty damn quick to talk people into joining her side, or at least not hurting her. She continues to be SO creepy with J, especially when she calls him Baby. It really sounds like something you would call a lover, not a grandson. Also, the opening credits, with shots of female flesh, a mom kissing her young sons cut, and touching his face, becomes SO much more creepy in the context of this show.

So, Popes new girlfriend is...something, isn't she? Big fan of the technical virgin thing.

[iMonrey]

Quote

isnt Lucy's family a similar family of thieves  in Mexico?

I've never been clear on the whole Lucy thing. She's got a son, and last season I got the distinct impression she was either married or was in a committed relationship with some other guy, much like Baz was with Catherine. They have never explained how Baz knows her or how he knows her brother. It sounds as if they used to pull some jobs together but how they ever met, we don't know.

[MaggieG]

On 6/30/2017 at 1:27 PM, iMonrey said:

I've never been clear on the whole Lucy thing. She's got a son, and last season I got the distinct impression she was either married or was in a committed relationship with some other guy, much like Baz was with Catherine. They have never explained how Baz knows her or how he knows her brother. It sounds as if they used to pull some jobs together but how they ever met, we don't know.

I may be way off base but I got the feeling during season 1 that Baz may have fathered Lucy's son as well?

[leighdear]

On 6/29/2017 at 10:38 PM, tennisgurl said:

Also, the opening credits, with shots of female flesh, a mom kissing her young sons cut, and touching his face, becomes SO much more creepy in the context of this show.

It took me until this episode to realize that the names of all of Smurf's kids are in the border of that tattoo. 

Jay was talking about being freezing because the ductwork they were in was for the air conditioning system.  If it was hotter than normal outside, they would have the AC cranked UP in that church to compensate.  So more and colder air where J & Baz were. 

I'm actually ok with Nicki.  I think she & J can keep the brother/sister thing going, as J never really seemed very attracted to her anyway.  But she definitely needs to stop hooking up with Craig.  

[sugarbaker design]

This episode was aired again last night, I had to re-watch the scene with Smurf and Deran.  It still chilled.

[NN99]

On 6/28/2017 at 10:10 AM, lazylou said:

I just did a little further research.  California is one of the few states that does do familial DNA testing and matching...but it is rarely done; since no murder or rape occurred here, J is safe.

In any case, California, even when it does conduct such research, does so only on a state level.  The state protocol rules out everything but DNA samples sharing the Y chromosome. So unless Pope is actually J's father, his DNA would not link up with J's given the methodology used.

So, the DNA issue is moot unless J is later arrested on a felony charge.

Wow, thats some good research. Nice job !

[NN99]

I'm glad and a little surprised they brought back Adrian for the bar opening. Maybe, he will forgive Deran ?

[leighdear]

Poor Adrian.  I just can't un-see the little boy from "Gladiator" that worshiped Maximus....But in all fairness, Russell Crowe was extremely hot back then, so he got a lot of worship. 

"Are you NOT Entertained"?  ROFL!

[topanga]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

Poor Adrian.  I just can't un-see the little boy from "Gladiator" that worshiped Maximus....But in all fairness, Russell Crowe was extremely hot back then, so he got a lot of worship. 

"Are you NOT Entertained"?  ROFL!

That's him? I totally see it now. It's those eyes..

I hope Adrian and Deran get back together. Although Deran treated Adrian like crap last season. But he seems to have matured a lot.