S05.E12: Tattoo You

[Cranberry]

Boo dabbles in blackmail, Nicky promises to help Lorna, Doggett makes a discovery, and Piper comes to a realization about Alex.

[Lady Calypso]

So, Maria broke the inmates out to get a lesser sentence? She screwed over Gloria for it, that's for sure. Also who screwed over the inmates? Taystee, all because she had to demand for more than what they could have gotten at that time. Like, I get why she wanted justice for Poussey and that it was important to her, but she didn't consider that the offer wouldn't just still be there and that they'd probably stop giving in at some point. But for her, she thought that with the hostages, they'd be safe. Until the hostages got out, of course, but even then, Nita was considering going in regardless.

So, Piper/Alex are engaged? I knew that they couldn't resist some sort of engagement/wedding, and if that means we stop the bullshit drama with Alex/Piper for a while, then that's cool with me. 

So, Pennsatucky is at the guards' place, waiting for Coates. I truly hope it blows up in her face. Girl, he's not worth it. 

So, Lorna's pregnant and Nicky helps get Vinnie and her back together. Hopefully this is the end of Nicky/Lorna so that Nicky can move on and be happy. 

Man, I feel for Bayley. I totally get that he doesn't know what else to do and that he really is trying to find a way to feel better. Him going to see Poussey's dad was very brave, and I applaud her dad for being brutally honest. I wonder what will happen to Bayley now. 

Ouija and her friend are super dumb, and I genuinely want them to get off my screen. Way too much of them; them and the meth heads have taken up way too much screen time. 

[kathe5133]

Ok.  That prison is filled with shit for brains fools.  I need a break before I tackle the last episode.  I can't imagine this will end well.

[Willowy]

You shoulda listened to Fig on this one, Taystee. BIG mistake.

[DrSpaceman73]

Alex - Piper just are not believable as a couple.  They work as nothing more than friends, that is it. 

Piper is doing nothing more than reliving her more exciting youth briefly while she is in prison.  Nothing more.  That relationship ends the moment she gets out of prison and Alex is still in there. 

SO stupid by Taystee.  They basically gave them everything they wanted.  Likely he would have been arrested once the investigation took place. 

The whole season is a play out of two things :

1.  The Standford Prison Experiment :   Guards become inmates and vice versa

2.  The trolley problem mentioned earlier in the season, playing out over and over again with multiple inmates

[Helena Dax]

Damn, Taystee... Yeah, she made a big mistake. Fig was right for once: MCC can't send Bayley's to prison.  Otoh, I don't understand why Poussey's dad wouldn't want to sue everyone.

The relationship between Fig and Caputo is absolutely horrid and I can't get enough of it. What's wrong with me?

Loved that Nicky called Lorna's husband. I didn't quite understand his reaction when Lorna told him she was pregnant and tbh, I never considered the possibility that he might be thinking she was lying or delusional. I'm glad to see he's willing to do the right thing. At the same time, Nicky's take on Lorna was a bit, well, idealized.

[plurie]

18 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Damn, Taystee... Yeah, she made a big mistake. Fig was right for once: MCC can't send Bayley's to prison.  Otoh, I don't understand why Poussey's dad wouldn't want to sue everyone.

The relationship between Fig and Caputo is absolutely horrid and I can't get enough of it. What's wrong with me?

Loved that Nicky called Lorna's husband. I didn't quite understand his reaction when Lorna told him she was pregnant and tbh, I never considered the possibility that he might be thinking she was lying or delusional. I'm glad to see he's willing to do the right thing. At the same time, Nicky's take on Lorna was a bit, well, idealized.

Fig is representing the governor and the state dept. of corrections, not MCC. But even the governor doesn't control the court system.

[tivofanatic]

They were all doomed no matter what. Hump is still dead.  

I was happy to see Piper's mom.  Piper, don't invite your dad to the wedding.  He's already written you out of the will.  Probably the brother too.  Where is he?

Where is Chang?

[DietCokeJunkie]

I fast forwarded though the guard torture scene in the chapel, but wasn't Maria the leader of that?  Why in the world would she think she could get away with stealing Gloria's deal with the governor? Once the guards start talking, she is going to have so much time added to her sentence.  There is no coming back from that. 

[ExplainItAgain]

It's much more obvious when people are missing when everyone is involved in the same story. Soso's been missing for a few eps. Allison and Ruiz missed an ep or two. Even Linda was MIA for an episode. And lucky us, the meth heads weren't in this episode. The cast is way too large - I can see why they can't have everyone in every episode ($$ and time). But IMO they've focused way too much on some people.

That was an awful tattoo of the kool aide man.

Taystee seems like the new lead of the show.

I'm afraid of a casualty with the storming of the prison...dare to dream it's one of the meth heads...or one of Ouija's gang.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 2017-6-14 at 6:52 AM, plurie said:

Fig is representing the governor and the state dept. of corrections, not MCC. But even the governor doesn't control the court system.

I have no idea how prisons in the US work, but if Litchfield is a Federal prison, why is the Governor of NY and his people trying to negotiate with the  rioters?

Impressed with Natasha Lyonne, because when she was in the pharmacy, the make up job they did on her made her exhaused and look like shit (which Nicky would have been). Seriously, she looked like Steve Buchemi in a wig.

[possibilities]

On 6/16/2017 at 3:46 AM, tivofanatic said:

Where is Chang?

I really want to see more of her. I find all her scenes riveting, even if it's just her walking by and snarking as she goes.

[questionfear]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:19 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I have no idea how prisons in the US work, but if Litchfield is a Federal prison, why is the Governor of NY and his people trying to negotiate with the  rioters?

Impressed with Natasha Lyonne, because when she was in the pharmacy, the make up job they did on her made her exhaused and look like shit (which Nicky would have been). Seriously, she looked like Steve Buchemi in a wig.

My only guess is that the gov is acting on behalf of the federal govt, because it's taking place in his state? It's an odd one for sure, but there's a lot of odd things going on with this storyline (and IIRC several of the prisoner backstories don't show why they ended up in federal and not state prison). 

[Guest]

I think they kind of ignore that it's supposed to be a federal prison.  A lot, maybe all, of the crimes we've seen (except Piper and Alex's) wouldn't be federal issues.

I think too that prisons in the real world probably have some blanket policy that they will never negotiate with rioters because it encourages riots.  To think prisoners can just grab hostages and actually get better food, conditions, etc. is pretty far-fetched.  Every prison would be like a Hilton if that's all it took.  I just assume that even if Taystee's plan worked out, the authorities would've laughed in her face about fulfilling their end, when it was all over.  

[red12]

On 6/11/2017 at 7:28 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

SO stupid by Taystee.  They basically gave them everything they wanted.  Likely he would have been arrested once the investigation took place. 

Even she knows his being arrested or even indicted means nothing when no one cares enough to convict. 

There will never be justice for Pousee or anyone else this has happened to.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The best moment of this episode was when Fig told Taystee that the governor had agreed to their demands and Caputo jumped up and down with excitement and told Taystee, "You did it!" He is no saint and he has made mistakes, but his happiness over that was genuine. It wasn't because he wanted the standoff to end. He knows that things are fucked up and that he alone doesn't have the power to change everything. His hands were tied with the budget because this isn't like trying to send a bunch of kids to soccer camp where you have some bake sales to raise money. On his own, he didn't have the money or authority to do most of the things that Taystee and the others demanded.

I understand that Taystee wants justice for her friend. Poussey shouldn't have died, and that's what matters to her. But everyone in that prison would have benefited from all the demands that the governor agreed to, and now everyone is going to suffer the consequences when the authorities storm the castle. They aren't going to stop to ask each person, "Hi, did you do anything illegal or violent over the past two days?" They're just going to take down every prisoner they see, even the ones who were just sitting around doing non-riot things like watching tv or sitting outside. I hope Taystee can live with herself when her friends and fellow prisoners are injured when the SWAT team (or whoever it is they sent in) comes in swinging and they don't end up with better food, an education program, or higher wages. As much as I understand her need for justice for Poussey, Fig and the governor were not lying when they said they can't just throw Bayley in prison. He still has to go through the legal system like everyone else.

The sad thing is that Bayley has tried to turn himself in, to kill himself, and to have Poussey's father have whatever revenge he wants and he has been turned away every time. I know that being sorry won't bring Poussey back, but I wish that Taystee and Brooke knew that he was at least trying to find a way to have justice served for what he did. Taystee thinks that he's like Piscatella - unrepentantly evil with no regret for the violent things he has done. She thinks he's skipping around happily in the outside world. Nothing will lessen her grief or her loss, but knowing that he isn't blithely going about his life is something that I think she should know.

If the show is trying to sell me on the Piper+Alex=twu wuv story, they really need to stop reminding us what assholes they have been to each other. Alex turned Piper in to save her ass and to make her suffer. That's not true love. That's a selfish asshole killing two birds with one stone so she can avoid federal prison and get back at someone who hurt her. These are two people who get tattoos out of SPITE. That's a sign of immaturity, not love. I mean, on the other hand, I guess they deserve each other.

Larry's Kook-Aid man tattoo was terrible!

[Misstify]

Why did this show put Larry back on my screen again?

[tennisgurl]

Taystee seriously screwed up on this one, making a choice that was both stupid, and rather selfish. She had a once in a lifetime chance to make a real change and make everyone's lives better (what she said to Black Cindy basically) and she threw it away. All for something that doesn't even make a lick of sense. Fig and Caputo were 100% right that they cant just have Bayley arrested and thrown immediately in jail. There needs to be an inquiry (which is already happening) and an arrest and a trial, there is a reason there's a system. You cant just throw people into jail because one person says so. She's right that the system doesn't always work, but that doesn't even really apply here. What Bailey did was clearly a tragic accident, and if he stood trial, he would probably be convicted of involuntary manslaughter at the worst, likely not even that. Taystee through away everything that has happened over what wasn't even a murder. I get that she's horrified by the senseless death of her best friend, but forcing people to admit they treated the prisoners horribly and getting them to fix what they did is a far bigger victory than throwing some guy in jail. It was MCCs fault Poussey died, not Bayley.

I know I've already said this, but I feel like it was a mistake to make Bayley the one who killed Poussey, at least in the context of what I think they're trying to do. I think they want us to see what Taystee is doing as her fighting for justice, pulling it into the Black Lives Matter movement and finding justice for the injustice black people suffer at the hands of cops and in the legal system, but, considering all the time spent on Bayley's horrible guilt and showing us that the death was CLEARLY not out of racism or malice, it comes off as Taystee being unbearably short sighted and self centered. if she was trying to get one of the psycho guards sent to jail for their crimes, I think it would be easier to get behind her. This is so clearly more of a Violence Inherent in System kind of issue, and you can easily tie that into institutionalized racism if that's the story you want to tell, but its just not fully connecting.

[Paloma]

On 7/6/2017 at 8:08 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The best moment of this episode was when Fig told Taystee that the governor had agreed to their demands and Caputo jumped up and down with excitement and told Taystee, "You did it!" He is no saint and he has made mistakes, but his happiness over that was genuine. It wasn't because he wanted the standoff to end. He knows that things are fucked up and that he alone doesn't have the power to change everything. His hands were tied with the budget because this isn't like trying to send a bunch of kids to soccer camp where you have some bake sales to raise money. On his own, he didn't have the money or authority to do most of the things that Taystee and the others demanded.

I understand that Taystee wants justice for her friend. Poussey shouldn't have died, and that's what matters to her. But everyone in that prison would have benefited from all the demands that the governor agreed to, and now everyone is going to suffer the consequences when the authorities storm the castle. They aren't going to stop to ask each person, "Hi, did you do anything illegal or violent over the past two days?" They're just going to take down every prisoner they see, even the ones who were just sitting around doing non-riot things like watching tv or sitting outside. I hope Taystee can live with herself when her friends and fellow prisoners are injured when the SWAT team (or whoever it is they sent in) comes in swinging and they don't end up with better food, an education program, or higher wages. As much as I understand her need for justice for Poussey, Fig and the governor were not lying when they said they can't just throw Bayley in prison. He still has to go through the legal system like everyone else.

The sad thing is that Bayley has tried to turn himself in, to kill himself, and to have Poussey's father have whatever revenge he wants and he has been turned away every time. I know that being sorry won't bring Poussey back, but I wish that Taystee and Brooke knew that he was at least trying to find a way to have justice served for what he did. Taystee thinks that he's like Piscatella - unrepentantly evil with no regret for the violent things he has done. She thinks he's skipping around happily in the outside world. Nothing will lessen her grief or her loss, but knowing that he isn't blithely going about his life is something that I think she should know.

If the show is trying to sell me on the Piper+Alex=twu wuv story, they really need to stop reminding us what assholes they have been to each other. Alex turned Piper in to save her ass and to make her suffer. That's not true love. That's a selfish asshole killing two birds with one stone so she can avoid federal prison and get back at someone who hurt her. These are two people who get tattoos out of SPITE. That's a sign of immaturity, not love. I mean, on the other hand, I guess they deserve each other.

Larry's Kook-Aid man tattoo was terrible!

Thank you, ElectricBoogaloo, for that excellent summary! I know Taystee meant well, but I was practically shouting at the TV for her to stop putting her own need for justice ahead of the broader needs of all the inmates.

I have been sick of the Piper/Alex story for a while, and especially in the context of the riot it seems out of place or at least irrelevant.

[Paloma]

On 7/13/2017 at 0:41 PM, tennisgurl said:

Taystee seriously screwed up on this one, making a choice that was both stupid, and rather selfish. She had a once in a lifetime chance to make a real change and make everyone's lives better (what she said to Black Cindy basically) and she threw it away. All for something that doesn't even make a lick of sense. Fig and Caputo were 100% right that they cant just have Bayley arrested and thrown immediately in jail. There needs to be an inquiry (which is already happening) and an arrest and a trial, there is a reason there's a system. You cant just throw people into jail because one person says so. She's right that the system doesn't always work, but that doesn't even really apply here. What Bailey did was clearly a tragic accident, and if he stood trial, he would probably be convicted of involuntary manslaughter at the worst, likely not even that. Taystee through away everything that has happened over what wasn't even a murder. I get that she's horrified by the senseless death of her best friend, but forcing people to admit they treated the prisoners horribly and getting them to fix what they did is a far bigger victory than throwing some guy in jail. It was MCCs fault Poussey died, not Bayley.

I know I've already said this, but I feel like it was a mistake to make Bayley the one who killed Poussey, at least in the context of what I think they're trying to do. I think they want us to see what Taystee is doing as her fighting for justice, pulling it into the Black Lives Matter movement and finding justice for the injustice black people suffer at the hands of cops and in the legal system, but, considering all the time spent on Bayley's horrible guilt and showing us that the death was CLEARLY not out of racism or malice, it comes off as Taystee being unbearably short sighted and self centered. if she was trying to get one of the psycho guards sent to jail for their crimes, I think it would be easier to get behind her. This is so clearly more of a Violence Inherent in System kind of issue, and you can easily tie that into institutionalized racism if that's the story you want to tell, but its just not fully connecting.

Also agree with this 100%. Maybe if an evil guard like Humps or Piscatella had killed Poussey (and if it had been more clearly murder rather than manslaughter), it would have been more understandable that she and other inmates would accept nothing less than justice. But even in that situation, it would have been wrong for Taystee on her own to say no to all of the concessions if the demand for immediate jail for the guard was not granted. At least she should have given the other inmates a vote on whether to accept the offer on the table.

[ganesh]

On 7/16/2017 at 5:24 AM, Paloma said:

Maybe if an evil guard like Humps or Piscatella had killed Poussey (and if it had been more clearly murder rather than manslaughter), it would have been more understandable that she and other inmates would accept nothing less than justice.

But I think it was a better dramatic choice because it's too easy in a sense if the "bad guy" is a real bad guy. Having it play out like this injects some real tragedy into the story. We know Taystee wasn't going to take that deal. 

I was surprised that there were no inmates there to overrule her. 

I did like Caputo's genuine sentiment. 

[gymratgrandma]

Stupid Stupid tasytee Just stupid. That decision put you right alongside the meth heads stupidity. I hope season 6 is better

[tashoseery]

On 6/18/2017 at 6:49 AM, possibilities said:

I really want to see more of her. I find all her scenes riveting, even if it's just her walking by and snarking as she goes.

chang is one of the most underrated characters on oitnb :(

[HariboPeach]

Super late to the party, but I just finished this one last night. I loved Piper and Alex in Season 1, but ever since then, they've been a hot mess. This marriage proposal felt so forced and out of left field that I was more annoyed than happy when it happened. They would barely last 1 day outside prison at this point.

[possibilities]

On 7/6/2017 at 8:08 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The sad thing is that Bayley has tried to turn himself in, to kill himself, and to have Poussey's father have whatever revenge he wants and he has been turned away every time. I know that being sorry won't bring Poussey back, but I wish that Taystee and Brooke knew that he was at least trying to find a way to have justice served for what he did.

He could always go to the media. They'd surely tell his story. Or he could make a video confession and send it around. Guaranteed it goes viral. He feels bad, but he's not really doing anything to make amends, either. He could do something constructive, to either rehabilitate himself, help others, or publicly get the message out. But he's just wallowing. It's not helpful. It's not Poussey's father's job to fix it for him. He needs to do the best he can to fix it even if the justice system won't. He can't bring Poussey back, but he can do better than he is right now.

 

On 7/6/2017 at 8:08 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

on the other hand, I guess they deserve each other.

Heh, yes. That's how I feel about them.

I like the idea of a vote, but at the same time, I think the basic premise of the show is that everybody is a fuck up and things never get handled well. I bet if there had been a vote, it would have just become another form of chaos. Really, whatever anyone did, it was always going to end badly. I also seriously doubt any agreements were going to be honored, so in a way she was right to stick to principle, so when they were backstabbed by the admin reneging on the agreement, they couldn't be smeared with "it was never about Poussey, they were just using her death because they wanted better snacks".