Good Bones - General Discussion

[Soapy Goddess]

18 hours ago, RoxiP said:

TV has been so boring lately that I am looking forward to a new show, even if she sometimes drives me crazy...but I've seen her a lot on Instagram lately and what the heck has she done to her eyebrows?

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks those painted on clown eyebrows look ridiculous. Too dark and too heavy for her complexion.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Soapy Goddess

[pasdetrois]

Those Sharpie eyebrows are this generation's white lipstick.

[RoxiP]

From what little I have gathered on Instagram it looks like this show is coming to an end (I haven't bothered to watch the podcast).  Not sure if there is a final season or not.

Glad I'm not the only one who is bugged by the eyebrows.  She is a beautiful woman naturally - not sure why she feels the need to overproduce her look.

[3 is enough]

Mina was posting some cryptic stuff on her Instagram account about her podcast. I wasn’t interested enough to watch the podcast but in the comments a few people said that 

Spoiler

after this coming season the show is done 

 

[Soapy Goddess]

18 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Those Sharpie eyebrows are this generation's white lipstick.

That's unfortunate because she's starting to resemble Carrot Top...and not in a good way either. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

https://people.com/mina-starsiak-hawk-reveals-new-season-of-good-bones-is-its-last-end-of-an-era-7571493

This confirms everything, show finally ending.   Mina moving to another company as Chief Design and Build Officer for the home improvement brand Character. (apparently they do kitchen and bath remodels). 

Spoiler

I wonder how happy the new company will be with posted topless photos?  

I am getting tired of ads on this page, and other pages for the warehouse for sale, the former HQ/warehouse building.   1628 S East St, they want almost $900k for it.   Too bad it has very little parking, has no elevator, and is a very bad layout.   I have to laugh at the photo of the building, carefully cropping out how close the neighboring buildings are.  It doesn't look accessible either, for ADA purposes. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[pasdetrois]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:56 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Mina moving to another company as Chief Design and Build Officer for the home improvement brand Character.

This is interesting because I would have thought Mina would have stayed with her development business forever, even with Karen gone. She was happy a few years ago when the municipality altered zoning regs and made life easier (and therefore richer) for developers.

Given other clues we saw on the show and elsewhere, I wondered if Mina became overextended and was struggling financially. Building costs skyrocketed due to COVID (supply chain issues). She was definitely showing signs of stress.

Working for someone else is a loss of freedom and control, but I assume they are offering her big bucks, and perhaps her life will be more stable for her young family.

[Angelsmom1009]

52 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

This is interesting because I would have thought Mina would have stayed with her development business forever, even with Karen gone. She was happy a few years ago when the municipality altered zoning regs and made life easier (and therefore richer) for developers.

Given other clues we saw on the show and elsewhere, I wondered if Mina became overextended and was struggling financially. Building costs skyrocketed due to COVID (supply chain issues). She was definitely showing signs of stress.

Working for someone else is a loss of freedom and control, but I assume they are offering her big bucks, and perhaps her life will be more stable for her young family

Exactly this...I listened to some of the podcast, and it sounds like it wasn't her decision for the show to end (8 seasons is a good run though). And even though she has said the show doesn't pay a lot, the loss of that steady income probably led to her decision of taking on this new design position. I think Two Chicks has been struggling for a while now. The past few years she seemed to be throwing whatever she could at the wall and hoping it would stick, plus the endless amount of selling/influencer stuff on her IG. People are struggling to stay afloat in the homes they're in now, let alone buying new homes, so she's probably struggling in flipping these reno houses quickly. She's also expressed how much of a strain the show and the business has had on her immediate and extended family. So yeah...she's giving up the "freedom" of being an entrepreneur, but gaining stability and work/life balance. I'm seeing a lot of fairly recent entrepreneurs pivoting back to corporate work for this reason. I don't think I'll be watching this season...I kind of gave up on it after she had Charlie and it became just like every other phony reality show...but I've always liked her and I'm sure she'll be fine going forward. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

From what I've read, on their website, Mina owns a bunch of short term rentals, and I bet they make a bundle, at least during Indy month.

   Part of the issues came up last season, when they said on the show how much they're paying for renting the numerous shipping containers, that are on their undeveloped properties.   

Mina said they owned one absolutely derelict property and they've had it for a long time.   That's plenty of time for squatters to move in, and major vandalism to happen.    All along I thought they were buying homes when they needed more reno houses, but apparently they own a bunch of wrecked homes, put cargo containers next to the house, board it up, and leave them until they want to reno them.   

With the lawsuits by contractors, the vanity projects like the Risky Business homes that were a horrible investment with no parking and no room for events, plus the small margins on past flips, I can see why the business fell apart.    

[bilgistic]

The Two Chicks office building is for sale.

[CrazyInAlabama]

It's also for rent, but apparently it's been on the market for a while without any luck selling or renting.  

I think the close neighbor houses are all 2 Chicks remodels, and some might be short term rentals too.   Having so little parking, and having short term rentals next door, and near by would be a deal breaker for me.  

Edited August 19, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[pasdetrois]

I wonder if buyers don't like how close it is to the next-door property.

[sheetmoss]

Quote

Falling Head Ova Heels in Fountain Square

Mina is helping her friend convert a historic Fountain Square home into a salon for her own beauty business. They plan to add a coffee shop into the renovation, but things could turn ugly ..

Would have been nice to see the ADA compliant restroom

       Did the suites on the 2nd floor have their own restroom?

Hate having to walk through the salon to get to the back deck

Thought the coffee bar garage door was ridiculous

Too bad they neutralized the exterior so now  it's basic/meh

[carrps]

I don't know why I never looked for this thread before.

Just had to come to comment on Mina's eyebrows. You folks didn't disappoint!

And now we see where she got those awful brows. That "friend" (read: client) did them. Not good advertising for the business.

What I think bugs me the most...and I know it's superficial...but why do they take houses with "character" and turn them into the most generic, soulless husks??? That cute cottage was covered in white paint so that none of the detail showed, and the black trim to give it an industrial vibe? What??? I just don't understand it.

12 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Thought the coffee bar garage door was ridiculous

That "business owner" was dumb. She spent all that extra money to sell a few cups of coffee? And Mina didn't know that any time you're have any kind of food being prepared and sold that all kinds of new and more stringent building requirements kick in??? I've never worked in construction, and even I know that.

Sheesh.

We ended up watching the show with the sound turned down every time Karen was on camera. That way I could concentrate on looking at the cute little dog and not have my eardrums shattered by Karen's shrieking.

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I just read on another board that Corey has his own construction company, Tad has his own contruction company and hired Austin, and MJ has his own design company.    The HQ is up for sale or rent, and for quite a while.  Their previous office is a short term rental, and Charlotte hall is for short term rental, or events.   

[KeithJ]

Here's another article on Mina and the end of Good Bones:

https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/star-of-good-bones-show-says-city-officials-hampered-her-work

[pasdetrois]

Ironically, I think some of Indy's development evolution, and Mina's frustration, are due, at least in part, to HGTV influence. There has been a tsunami of "build big blocky houses with minimal character" in many communities, and where I live they sell for big bucks. We see the pattern on many of these design shows (one exception is "Restored" ). The trend is to build to the narrow setback, kill mature trees, and paint everything white or gray.

A few seasons ago Mina was thrilled with Indy's seeming support for this building frenzy and its zoning changes, because they mean bigger more expensive houses and profit for developers. But now it appears that Indy's zoning and use permit folks may be pushing back on developers a bit, perhaps due to community backlash.

As seen on the show, Mina can be impatient and irritable, which doesn't work with bureaucracy. I think she's overextended and projecting her frustration onto the city and perhaps making some excuses for her predicament.

[carrps]

 

Excellent post, @pasdetrois. Mirrors my thoughts pretty closely.

 

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

We see the pattern on many of these design shows (one exception is "Restored" ).

I adore Bret Waterman. I love seeing him spending the time to remove layers of paint over old growth hardwood trim or sitting on the front lawn to scrub a vintage toilet or toiling for hours to clean up antique tile for re-use. I could watch his show over and over (and I often do!).

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

The company, and I guess Mina personally also have a bunch of short-term rentals.  Indiana law prohibits cities from limiting short term rentals, so especially during Indy month, and the state government sessions, they must make a bundle.  A lot of the remodels and new builds looked like short-term rentals too.  No dining room, every bedroom has a bathroom, and other features are for short term rentals, not permanent residents.   Open shelving is a feature for short-term renters, so the renters have easy access to kitchen items.   

[carrps]

That makes a lot of sense. A lot of her houses don't look like houses people would live in, but for a few weeks or a long weekend? Fine.

The episode last night emphasized the "circling the drain" state of the show. MJ was being especially ridiculous. No, this is a a flip. She doesn't want fancy chandeliers and vaulted porch ceilings. 🤨

[CrazyInAlabama]

District Co. the store and cafe or bar (it was supposed to be a bar at the beginning) is closing down, so that's all that's left except for rentals, and short term rentals I guess, don't know about Charlotte Hall's fate.   Last I heard, the HQ building was still up for sale or rent.   Since the next door neighbors are so close, and there is very little parking, I don't see it as an attractive location for offices.

With District Co. going away, I wonder about walkable restaurants and other activities for short term renters?   I don't know about other things close by that might attract buyers or renters. 

The article bilgistic linked to certainly is eye opening.  If that's true, then the show was phonier than I thought.     So, she barely interacts with her mother, who lives a couple of doors down, not close with the brothers, and doesn't mention the two half-sisters, one who worked at Two Chicks.   

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[satrunrose]

It really seems like Mina is in a bit of a crisis. I feel a bit badly. I cooled on the show once they stopped keeping at least a bit of the historical architecture and transitioned to gray and black boxes with one of Karen's increasingly eclectic art projects, but I still feel badly if things are going belly up. 

[bilgistic]

I glanced over the last few posts on her Instagram, and according to the comments, she's not talking to her family (Karen and...???). I don't know how people got this information, but I assume from her podcast, to which I don't listen.

Finley, the "Chief of Staff" at Two Chicks who had a shared office with Mina next to the playroom for their kids, hasn't been on the show at all this season. Her LinkedIn profile hasn't changed, though. Plenty of people just abandon their profiles, so that doesn't really mean anything.

ETA: I found an "article" about Mina's strained family relationships.

Edited September 30, 2023 by bilgistic

[pasdetrois]

Attacking one's family publicly is a shitty thing to do. I think Mina is selling her soul, piece by piece.

[bilgistic]

Yeah, Mina's only 35. She can't ride her podcast and be an "influencer" forever. She could've scaled down her business and continued to renovate (coughflipcough) houses, cancelled the show, and not felt like she was carrying the weight of so many people's livelihoods. I get that she felt a ton of pressure employing so many people, but blowing everything up and burning every bridge was not the right move.

While Tad is an ass, I'm glad he's coming out of this developing a business for himself. Cory (demo guy) works with him, and he seems like a grounding force for Tad, who is engaged.

MJ has a new design business. It looks like Cory (contractor that works with Mina on plans) is working as a general contractor.

I swear I have a life outside of this show and forum.

Edited October 2, 2023 by bilgistic

[CrazyInAlabama]

After reading the awful article about what Mina said about her estragement from her family, I think it's pretty obvious that they were all presenting a storyline.  Apparently we were sold a fake family closeness.   Everyone who was in the 'family' business either left a long time ago (like the sister Kelsey), or was really not an employee except for the TV show. 

I dislike airing dirty linen for no reason except to get publicity.  I don't like that the relationships are so troubled, and that it was publicized so widely.   I don't see how telling the world that everything on the show was faked makes anyone in this look good.   

Tad has his own contracting business, and Austin works for him, Corey has his own business and was a hired project manager, DJ the designer left to have his own design business. Apparently, even though Karen and Mina live within a house or two of each other, they have no relationship.  Mina is estranged from everyone apparently.      

I remember the house built for the producer's family, claimed to be their family home, when it hit the market right after the show aired about it.  It was obvious that many of the 'remodels' were actually for short term rentals, and investments, not homes for families the way they were portrayed.

Edited October 3, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[RowdyCam]

I fail to understand Mina's need to overshare every perceived wrong publicly. Her social media and podcasts are full of ego-centric whines and she seems to think she is so fascinating and amazing that folks can't get enough of her. The best outcome for her would involve no longer mixing work and extended family and putting all the resentment behind and (privately) starting fresh.

What ever happened with the younger sister who was on the show a few years back and the other sister with the 2 small daughters? Is there no one she gets along with?

[pasdetrois]

I should add that, in Mina's defense, it's possible her family that depended on her for the show and income got greedy or pressured her to continue. Also, she mentioned a specific family event. Perhaps they ganged up on her or were drinking and inappropriate around her children.

[buttersister]

They can all go away now. 

[pasdetrois]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:01 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

Horrible mistakes, multiple stop work orders So many stop work orders.   

I stopped watching when I gave up cable, but continued reading here. I recently watched a couple episodes on FUBO (which I only have for SEC football). I understand that Mina buys some properties at auctions and therefore can't inspect them before purchase. But post-sale inspection she should have a plan that conforms to codes and permitting. She's always had these "oops" moments that have given me pause about her capabilities. Now it's clear that she's subbing out work without supervising and it's a runaway train.

Also, it's clear that her remaining crew is only in it for the HGTV money. They are weirdly pushing Austin on us, perhaps hoping a Karen/Austin spin-off would work. (ETA: I guess this is the gardening show.) They are all performing monkeys.

I also notice little digs aimed at historical preservation folks and county officials, including remarks by her sycophants. That's what greedy developer assholes do.

Mina's a developer chasing dollars, and right now that means short-term rentals. Perhaps this is one reason HGTV decided the original charming premise had run its course. I suspect they are not sad to let the series go.

Edited October 9, 2023 by pasdetrois

[absolutelyido]

I can understand why Indianapolis started to push back against developers like Mina who were building huge houses completely out-of-character for the neighborhood. Exhibit A is her personal home which I think is ugly AF and, at 3 stories, towers over the neighbors story-and-a-half house. 

https://www.hgtv.com/shows/good-bones/mina-starsiaks-family-focused-forever-home-pictures

[CrazyInAlabama]

It's right next to her previous house, and I think a couple of doors down from her estranged mother and her half brother.  

[carrps]

3 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

I can understand why Indianapolis started to push back against developers like Mina who were building huge houses completely out-of-character for the neighborhood. Exhibit A is her personal home which I think is ugly AF and, at 3 stories, towers over the neighbors story-and-a-half house. 

https://www.hgtv.com/shows/good-bones/mina-starsiaks-family-focused-forever-home-pictures

I've always thought her own house was hideous. And the inside is not much better than the outside. You walk directly into this massive overbearing kitchen with this tiny squished little living "room" off to the side. I can't imagine living there. Ugh.

 

[Andyourlittledog2]

So this final season is the big free advertising for new businesses and personal expenses tax write off season, right?  Because just about everything is being done for themselves (you can write a bunch of those expenses off as part of the show, right?) and/or to promote the new businesses that the non-Minas are starting out.  Friends and employees and relatives have been the theme of most if not all of this season's episodes. Tonight, it's siblings and employees!

[Andyourlittledog2]

 I am so glad this show is almost over. I realize I could just stop watching but you know....

You can tell Mina and Karen don't like each other at this time (episode) because they just stand next to each other and talk to the camera and don't look at each other. Karen looks manic and pissed and artificially cheerful. It's a big change from the way they were at the start of the show. And do we ever see them interacting other than in passing?  Karen films with the others and mostly stays outside.

I loved that Tad and Amy (?) and Kelsey all kinda shut Mina down when she started 'designing' her usual colors and tiles and layouts in their homes. No thanks, sis. We have our own ideas. Mina seemed uncomfortable in those scenes. She almost twisted Kelsey's arm to tear down that kitchen wall and do an entire kitchen redo of what looked to me like a very nice kitchen most people would have loved. But it wasn't an open floor plan!  I didn't have a giant ass island!  Oh noes!  This cannot stand!!! lol  Mina just covered  by admitting her usual design was stuff as many bedrooms and bathrooms in a house as physically possible at the expense of public living space in order to increase the sale price.  Kelsey and Tad weren't doing it. Although Tad's house is so big that he wound up with four 'living' room areas throughout the house and lots of bedrooms. I will never understand that whole 'loft second story living room' ridiculousness these HGTV designers insist are necessary. It's just a waste of space to me. No wonder people are so lonely nowadays, they can't even sit in the same living room anymore while they stare at their phones. 

Black house and chicken coop:  Sure, Nordic. In Scandinavia they don't worry about cooling during summer so much. Is Indiana so cool that a black dwelling and chicken coop won't be baking in the sun in the summer? The coop especially. Seriously, does anyone know if that's a concern there?

 

ETA: Oh, and Karen and that little dog she carries everywhere and on job sites drives me nuts. I am full on pro-dog and bringing dogs places but carrying that little dog everywhere to construction sites just irks me beyond reason.  YMMV

Edited October 11, 2023 by Andyourlittledog2

[KeithJ]

I’ve noticed for a few episodes now that when Cory and Mina are in the car together he doesn’t look at her when talking or even at the camera.  He stares out the window and talks.  That’s kinda weird.

[CrazyInAlabama]

My opinion is Mina designs for short term rentals, bathroom for every bedroom, extra tiny living spaces for office space, and no thought to anything designed for a family or private home.   Since the business is basically gone, the others are simply performing for the paycheck.  

Edited October 12, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[carrps]

I really noticed how dead-looking Karen's and Kelsey's faces were when Mina was going on and on about how wonderful that open kitchen was. My sister thinks they're pissed because they decided against the wall coming down, but Mina did it anyway. And it looked bad! We though maybe make the doorway wider but pulling down the wall made the whole space feel off-kilter.

And the marble backsplash! Couldn't Mina see how it didn't go with the green cabinets and those grey-ish floors? Some designer. And she had the nerve to call Kelsey's tile cheap. What looked cheap was that missing wall. Like they didn't have the funds to finish building.

So happy Tad and Anna held out for what they wanted. Anna was making the weirdest faces when Mina was describing their en suite as she wanted to design it. I think she (Anna) was trying not to scream or laugh hysterically.

What a sh*t show.

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm guessing stunts like taking down the wall even though the homeowner (Kelsy the half sister) said no, explains a lot of why Mina and everyone else are not speaking.   

[Andyourlittledog2]

The wall thing was odd. They started out (Mina and Cory I think) talking about just checking to see if the studs were something something in case the wall did come down. And they kept pulling off drywall until it was down to the studs entirely. So Kelsey was left with a torn down wall regardless. She did a short little talking head about yeah, the wall should come down but they didn't have time or money but I didn't buy that for a minute. She wasn't happy. And it did look weird. Personally, I never liked the open floor plan where kitchens are concerned. They look great - in magazine layouts. But real life is messy and so are used kitchens. If someone is so needy that they cannot so much as cook a meal without the entire guest list surrounding them at all times then perhaps the problem isn't closed kitchens.

There was a Washington Post article recently whose author pointedly said that HGTV was responsible for way too many people being obsessed with designing for the latest trends for resale and not for their own happiness in actually living in their own homes.  I was glad Kelsey and Tad seemed to have clear ideas about what they wanted and pushed back on Mina's boring go-to design ideas. Mina has not a clue about good design, it's like she is simply paint by numbers.  So when the box said the color is supposed to be grey and someone paints it yellow she cannot deal with it. It simply doesn't register as a legitimate choice in her head.

 

[carrps]

1 hour ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Mina has not a clue about good design, it's like she is simply paint by numbers. 

I love that they say they hired MJ as a design consultant. But every time he and Mina "consult" together, she ends up dictating all the choices, and MJ just nods his head and says "Yeah."

 

[Angelsmom1009]

On 10/9/2023 at 1:42 PM, carrps said:

I've always thought her own house was hideous. And the inside is not much better than the outside. You walk directly into this massive overbearing kitchen with this tiny squished little living "room" off to the side. I can't imagine living there. Ugh.

 

OMG this! I thought her first house was adorable, this "dream" home is obnoxious. I live in an urban area like Indy, where the houses are close together, and I know something that size is absolutely engulfing the surrounding houses in shadows and blocking any type of views they may have had. Her neighbors must hate her for that. I know she pushed any city ordinance to the limit to build it, and it's so out of character for a neighborhood like that.

As for everything else...yeah, I think the writing has been on the wall for a while. She recently said that she doesn't have an steady income anymore since the show is ending. She said half of their rental properties are empty, and she can't flip houses as quickly as before, and her husband's business doesn't bring anything steady. God knows if Charlotte Hall is bringing in any income (people are not spending crazy amounts of money on weddings and other big events and venues anymore post COVID and inflation) and now D-Co is closing. I know is Indy is cracking down on these developers flipping houses and selling them for triple and making it more unaffordable, and at the end of the day, that's exactly what Mina is. But I'm truly not sure about her business acumen, because it seems like she's been throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks, and really didnt consider that the show would end. That maybe she would reach some sort of Chip and Joanna level. I know Good Bones is a popular show, but that Magnolia fanbase is rabid. That being said, I hope she figures it out.

The whole situation with her family I think is a classic case of they weren't as close as they portrayed on TV. She's been very open on her podcast about her family dynamic, upbringing, past drama with her parents and siblings, etc and it completely contradicts the "We're all family and we LOVE working together!" image that comes off on the show. I applaud her for being honest but I would imagine her family hasn't been too happy with her airing out all of their issues on such a public forum. Combine that with just the stress of working together, blurring the lines between boss and sister/daughter , there's a lot of resentment.

[CrazyInAlabama]

What I hate is the true family relationships and business practices vs. what was claimed on the show.    

[chessiegal]

There was a cooking show on FN years ago with a married couple, the Neeleys(?), who acted all lovey dovey on the show when in reality they hated each other. That's show biz.

[Gam2]

I don’t understand why anyone feels the need or the justification to air their dirty family laundry. Just shut up and keep your own counsel. Don’t trash your family in public.

[buttersister]

Good riddance.

[katenm]

The difference between her and the Magnolia cabal is they worked hard to develop a broad base of fans with varied interests, not just renovations. They developed a business, including books, products, and other shows. For all her talk of being a business person, Mina never looked at the big picture or took the long view. Even some of her projects were ill-thought-out. Charlotte Hall? who plans an entertainment venue with no parking? Mina.         

I am not Magnolia fan, but I admire their work ethic. 

[Barlowe]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:19 PM, katenm said:

The difference between her and the Magnolia cabal is they worked hard to develop a broad base of fans with varied interests, not just renovations. They developed a business, including books, products, and other shows. For all her talk of being a business person, Mina never looked at the big picture or took the long view. Even some of her projects were ill-thought-out. Charlotte Hall? who plans an entertainment venue with no parking? Mina.         

I am not Magnolia fan, but I admire their work ethic. 

I’m interested to see how the Napiers and Marrs end up in a few years. I feel like they’ve both built up little empires (books, brand deals, brick and mortar stores, the Airbnb) especially the Napiers and what they have is what Mina wanted to accomplish. 
 

But the difference is that they seem to come from money and have family and friends who are business partners. The Marrs seem to have Dave’s brother as a business partner and Ben and Erin have the two other couples that are co-owners in their businesses. Plus they have a strong brand as wholesome young couple with kids that’s easier for people to latch onto versus Mina whose husband isn’t part of the brand. 

In the case of the Napier’s, they have a good in with the city because they’re on the downtown redevelopment team or something like that. Plus unlike Mins who wanted District Co to be frequented by locals, they embrace the fact that these businesses are catering more to tourists/fans of the show.

 

*Side note but I read Tamara Day of Bargain Mansions had to close her store and now just maintaining an online store. Which makes me think again that you need a strong brand and financial backing like that Napiers/Marrs.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Barlowe

[satrunrose]

The Napiers have done some short term places, but I think their original goal to revitalize the town pushes them more towards building the population base. I also feel like their houses aren't quite as cookie cutter as Good Bones has become (the tiny living room, small but fancy kitchen, as many beds and baths as you can stuff in). They also learn more towards respecting the historical detail, although I've noticed this shifting as they've started to do more 70s-80s ranchers that never had charm to begin with. 

In other words, I really like the Napiers and I hope they don't go down the Good Bones or Windy City Rehab implosion route.

[izabella]

I'm so grateful the Napiers never gave us travesties like the hideous "chop and pop."