S01.E02: The Course of True Love Never Did Run Smooth

[Meredith Quill]

Quote

With Verona in crisis, Rosaline and Benvolio have no choice but to follow Prince Escalus' decree to marry one another in an effort to restore peace, which Rosaline struggles to accept. Lady Capulet continues to mourn Juliet's death, but unsettled by the way she died, is determined to figure out what or who influenced Juliet's decision. Meanwhile, Livia and the nurse work tirelessly, hiding a secret of their own. 

[SimoneS]

This was a much better episode. I liked Escalus much more in this episode. He was terrifying when he stabbed the obnoxious guy's hand with the fork, ruthless with Rosaline, and determined at the execution. He has finally accepted who he is. He and Rosaline have chemistry. Now I am fully invested in the triangle with Benvolio.

I also like the princess. Isabella is tough.

Damn Capulet is evil as hell and Montague is a schemer.

Who chopped up Romeo's body? Someone trying to inflame the war between the Capulets and Montagues, but who.

The costumes are mostly historically incorrect, but they are beautiful with lush fabrics including stunning silks and leathers. They must have cost a ton.

[Driad]

What if Rosaline entered a convent as she preferred, Livia was declared the Capulet heir, and Livia married Benvolio?  Yes, I know, something would go terribly wrong, but someone could have suggested it.

[Kuther2000]

5 minutes ago, Driad said:

What if Rosaline entered a convent as she preferred, Livia was declared the Capulet heir, and Livia married Benvolio?  Yes, I know, something would go terribly wrong, but someone could have suggested it.

They need to provide us with a reason on why it can't be doe-eyed Livia, who everyone knows is itching for this. However at the moment, she may end up taking home a bigger prize than Montague and Capulet.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Kuther2000
spelling error

[wanderingstar]

I liked this episode better than the premiere. The show and all the characters felt more settled.

I love how Livia's mind immediately went to how Rosaline's marriage could benefit her own prospects. Eyes on the prize, eh?

Benvolio using that kid to get dirt on the Capulet cathedral was clever.

I continue to enjoy Grant Bowler as Lord Montague. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Kuther2000]

Something I don't understand is how you gonna keep one sister as a servant and the other make a Lady again. Hell, I don't even know how they were able to be unmade Ladies anyway. Yeah, they no longer had the money and the clothes; however, they were still seemingly legitimate children.  They still get to keep whatever titles they have i would think. 

Capulet is a terrible uncle anyway. I hope someone calls him out on what he did to his brother's children. How would he feel if his brother had done that to Juliet. He is showing his House's weakness if two noble Ladies of a powerful family/house can be made servants just like that. Having them around gave him more leverage to bargain with for arranged marriages with allies against the Montagues.

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, Kuther2000 said:

Something I don't understand is how you gonna keep one sister as a servant and the other make a Lady again. Hell, I don't even know how they were able to be unmade Ladies anyway. Yeah, they no longer had the money and the clothes; however, they were still seemingly legitimate children.  They still get to keep whatever titles they have i would think. 

Capulet is a terrible uncle anyway. I hope someone calls him out on what he did to his brother's children. How would he feel if his brother had done that to Juliet. He is showing his House's weakness if two noble Ladies of a powerful family/house can be made servants just like that. Having them around gave him more leverage to bargain with for arranged marriages with allies against the Montagues.

You might as well ask how Cinderella went from being the lady of the manor to a slave in her own home at the hands of her stepmother and stepsisters.  And Cinderella's stepmother was just as stupid as Lord Capulet, since like Capulet, she never seemed to realize that marrying off Cinderella rather than her own daughters would be the easiest path to establish the social and financial connections she wanted, since the nobles of the realm would actually be fighting over Cinderella's hand if her stepmother played it right.

My point, of course, is that Capulet is an idiot for NOT recognizing that his nieces' marriages would be an even more powerful asset than Juliet's intended marriage to Paris would have been.  And so is Lady MacCapulet.

[Enero]

12 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

Something I don't understand is how you gonna keep one sister as a servant and the other make a Lady again. Hell, I don't even know how they were able to be unmade Ladies anyway. Yeah, they no longer had the money and the clothes; however, they were still seemingly legitimate children.  They still get to keep whatever titles they have i would think. 

I'm confused by this as well. Unless the brother himself was in some way illegitimate and what little status he had only extended to his children while he was alive. Once he was dead the titles and the money went with it? Because otherwise this doesn't make sense. I'd think Uncle Capulet would be the executor of his nieces estate until one or both married and their money would be passed on to their husband as a dowry. But, Rosalind did mention last week that Lady Capulet would not marry her father because she wanted a title.  So who knows why the girls ended up poor and being servants to their uncle. 

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 

Who chopped up Romeo's body? Someone trying to inflame the war between the Capulets and Montagues, but who.

I'm calling it now. It was Isabella. She's ruthless behind that sweet smile and sees the bigger picture. She did it to keep her brother on task and to make him abandon that ridiculous idea of marrying Rosalind. It would certainly explain why the King/Prince was strangely notified first, before anyone about Romeo's mutilated body and not his own father. The mutilation was for the Escalus' eyes only. 

I like that Lady Capulet is questioning how her daughter knew what to take to kill herself. She is right in her thought. Where would she get the poison from? Where would she get such a thought? That Friar needs to be exiting stage left now because when the truth inevitably comes out he is going to be done. Possibly Rosalind too since she had some part in the scheme even though she didn't intend for Juliet to die. 

Still don't understand why Juliet's betrothal remains hidden in the basement and why no one from his family has come looking for him. 

Liked Escalus coming into his own too, which in large part is due to his sister. 

I still felt, like the premiere, too much might've been going on with this episode and there are a few things that remain a mystery, but overall an entertaining episode.  

Edited June 6, 2017 by Enero

[Kuther2000]

14 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

You might as well ask how Cinderella went from being the lady of the manor to a slave in her own home at the hands of her stepmother and stepsisters.  And Cinderella's stepmother was just as stupid as Lord Capulet, since like Capulet, she never seemed to realize that marrying off Cinderella rather than her own daughters would be the easiest path to establish the social and financial connections she wanted, since the nobles of the realm would actually be fighting over Cinderella's hand if her stepmother played it right.

My point, of course, is that Capulet is an idiot for NOT recognizing that his nieces' marriages would be an even more powerful asset than Juliet's intended marriage to Paris would have been.  And so is Lady MacCapulet.

I get what you are saying about the Cinderella comparison however there are many differences. The stepmother didn't have the nobility, name, and bloodline of Cinderella to fall back on unlike Lord Capulet. In episode 1, when he is talking to Lady Capulet, it seems like he doesn't want them to be servants. Yet Lady Capulet pushes it. It tells me that he is a weak hearted man.

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, Kuther2000 said:

In episode 1, when he is talking to Lady Capulet, it seems like he doesn't want them to be servants. Yet Lady Capulet pushes it. It tells me that he is a weak hearted man.

True.  Even in the play, Lady Capulet is the one pushing for Juliet's marriage to Paris.  Capulet himself is reluctant to commit to it because he thinks that at 13, Juliet is too young to be getting married (even though Lady Capulet reminds him that she herself was only a couple of years older than Juliet when Juliet was born).  He doesn't actually come on board regarding the marriage until after Tybalt's death, after which he pushes it as a way to cure Juliet of what he thinks is her depression over Tybalt's death.

[ihavenoidea]

I'm having a hard time separating Escalus from that awful character he played on Pretty Little Liars (yes I used to watch that mess too).

 

Quote

Still don't understand why Juliet's betrothal remains hidden in the basement and why no one from his family has come looking for him. 

Me either.  It's very weird.  

[SimoneS]

Capulet making his nieces servants was idiotic, shortsighted, and hard to believe. He could have traded on the Capulet name and married Rosaline and Livia off to wealthy minor aristocrats or wealthy merchants who wanted to climb the social ladder. Even now he could arrange a beneficial marriage for Livia since Rosaline is marrying a wealthy Montague, yet he lets her remain a servant. It all makes no sense.

Edited June 6, 2017 by SimoneS

[Kuther2000]

8 minutes ago, Enero said:

I'm confused by this as well. Unless the brother himself was in some way illegitimate and what little status he had only extended to his children while he was alive. Once he was dead the titles and the money went with it? Because otherwise this doesn't make sense. I'd think Uncle Capulet would be the executor of his nieces estate until one or both married and their money would be passed on to their husband as a dowry. But, Rosalind did mention last week that Lady Capulet would not marry her father because she wanted a title.  So who knows why the girls ended up poor and being servants to their uncle. 

With Rosaline's words, I think it's about Lady Capulet rather having the heir than the spare. Anything that Rosaline's father would have would dwarf in comparison to be The Lord Capulet, Head of his House. Second sons are known to get less although he may have gotten a dowry from Rosaline's mother if she came from money. It's possible that by the time he died that he was skating by on his family name. Hopefully we will find out.

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Capulet making his nieces servants was idiotic, shortsighted, and hard to believe. He could have traded on the Capulet name and married Rosaline and Livia off to wealthy minor aristocracy or wealthy merchants who wanted to climb the social ladder. Even now he could arrange a beneficial marriage for Livia since Rosaline is marrying a wealthy Montague, yet he lets her remain a servant. It all makes no sense.

Tywin Lannister used every single family member that he had legitimate and illegimate to elevate the Family Firm.

[luckyroll3]

24 minutes ago, doram said:

Meanwhile, can someone clarify just how much of the "Romeo and Juliet" story is common knowledge in this story? Because I took it for granted that it was known that Romeo and Juliet were wed by Friar Lawrence... But then we had that scene where Friar L was flat-out lying to Lady C's face about never knowing Juliet. So what is the truth here?

Well common knowledge to us.  No one, except those who were present knew that Friar Lawrence officiated the wedding.  The Friar knows good and well that if either family found out he preformed a wedding between the two that they would kill his ass. 

[legaleagle53]

57 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Well common knowledge to us.  No one, except those who were present knew that Friar Lawrence officiated the wedding.  The Friar knows good and well that if either family found out he preformed a wedding between the two that they would kill his ass. 

Oh, I don't know.  Didn't Lord Montague say that he had been secretly hoping that Romeo and Juliet would hook up as a way to put an end to the feud and give the Montagues access to the Capulet power base?  That is, until it backfired so horribly. It was only then that he couldn't blame "that Capulet whore" fast enough for making his secret plan go off the rails.

Edited June 6, 2017 by legaleagle53

[AzureOwl]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Who chopped up Romeo's body? Someone trying to inflame the war between the Capulets and Montagues, but who.

Venice is being name dropped an awful lot. So much so that I'm starting to think that the Doge has an agent provocateur in Verona pouring gasoline into the feud. Considering that Shakespeare has not one but two plays set there, I wouldn't be surprised if Iago or Shylock was acting as the Doge's agent. 

10 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

Capulet is a terrible uncle anyway. I hope someone calls him out on what he did to his brother's children. How would he feel if his brother had done that to Juliet. He is showing his House's weakness if two noble Ladies of a powerful family/house can be made servants just like that. Having them around gave him more leverage to bargain with for arranged marriages with allies against the Montagues.

Lord Capulet has already made it clear that the only reason he did that was because he wouldn't stand up to his wife. The way he brought it up made it seem like a recurring argument he's had with his wife several times. 

1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

Well common knowledge to us.  No one, except those who were present knew that Friar Lawrence officiated the wedding.  The Friar knows good and well that if either family found out he preformed a wedding between the two that they would kill his ass. 

Not both families.

Lord Montague not only knows, but was behind everything. But the Friar has no less to fear from him. The Capulets would kill his ass as revenge for Juliet's death, but for Lord Montague the good Friar is a loose end that needs to be tied up. 

Then again, the fact that the Friar is still breathing might be an indication that Lord Montague isn't as ruthless as we have been assuming. 

[Guest]

I thought the Lady Capulet knew what the Friar had done and he was about to pay. She is pretty intense.  I held my breath for that scene.

[Kuther2000]

2 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

Lord Capulet has already made it clear that the only reason he did that was because he wouldn't stand up to his wife. The way he brought it up made it seem like a recurring argument he's had with his wife several times. 

 

Yea. I know. I talked about his arguments with his wife upthread and him not being able to stand up to her about this very important issue. 

[Scarlett45]

It was my understanding that Rosalind and her sister aren't "technically" servants- they are very much Cinderellas. They still have the name/bloodline but are treated like servants and socially ostracized, probably because whatever cash their father could've left them (as a second son he wouldn't have had much on hand and the Capulets have been going broke) is now under Lord Capulets control- rather than use that money to keep them dressed well/pay their dowaries and servants he has followed his wife's lead and is exploiting them for their labor until he needs to marry one off. But yes WHY NOT Livia?!! She is just as much a Capulet. 

[meep.meep]

The show is fine, and everyone is good looking.  But the woman who plays Rosaline is the least graceful person I've ever seen.  Is it natural or is she being directed to clomp around the set?  Thank goodness they didn't ask her to dance.

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, doram said:

So technically, Verona doesn't know that Romeo and Juliet were husband and wife? They know that they were probably secret lovers, and Juliet committed suicide because Romeo was exiled, and he subsequently killed himself but not that they were actually wed?

That's what I'm thinking. 

Also I think Lady C is keeping Paris alive is going to have something to do with verifying Juliet and Romeo were married.....how that's going to be relevant later I don't know. 

[AzureOwl]

6 hours ago, doram said:

I got the vibe that Shylock was Lord C's creditor in that scene.

Could be. The fact that he decided to forgo the interest may be a hint that the creditor was meant to be Antonio.

Wasn't that his shtick in the play? Lending money without interest and thus bringing the rates down for everyone? 

"I hate him for he is a Christian;    
But more for that in low simplicity    
He lends out money gratis, and brings down    
The rate of usance here with us in Venice."   

4 minutes ago, doram said:

Ah. Suddenly hiding that Paris is still alive now seems so important. Because he's the only one who can talk now.

But I wonder that neither Benvolio or Rosaline have come forward with what they know. 

All Paris can confirm is that they were wed. Who officiated the ceremony  and bore witness is another matter.

[Kuther2000]

2 hours ago, doram said:

So technically, Verona doesn't know that Romeo and Juliet were husband and wife? They know that they were probably secret lovers, and Juliet committed suicide because Romeo was exiled, and he subsequently killed himself but not that they were actually wed?

Does Verona not know about the marriage or did Rosaline only tell Livia because they had an argument about that secret in episode 1 ?

[LydiaMoon1]

That hour went by fast! I had just decided that Lord Montague was gansta because he seems to really enjoy thugging his way through aristocracy, when Escalus stabbed that guy with a fork  and Lord Capulet.......well.  Let's just say that the citizens of Verona are not to be trifled with.  The people of Venice, Milan, and Florence are worse than this?  Okay, then.  

I understand why Escalus had a change of heart, but he needs to stop making impulsive promises to Rosaline.  He was brutal to her.

God help Rosaline and the Friar when Lady Capulet puts two and two together.

Yay that Livia saved Paris, but I had to laugh when he called Livia "Juliet". I thought, "Dayum!  His abdominal injury made him damn near blind!"

Speaking of color, I LOVE the color-coding the show uses for the characters and their costumes; Lord Capulet, Livia, and Rosaline in blue, Lord Montague in red, Isabella and Escalus in shades of royal purple, Lady Capulet in black, and Benvolio in black and brown.  The clothes and hair are stunning, and everyone looks magnificent.  Bravo.

Edited June 7, 2017 by LydiaMoon1

[Destiny74]

The costumes are fabulous!  Maybe not accurate but really stunning.  Even the maids dresses are beautiful.

I was wondering also why Capulet didn't marry off Olivia.  She was willing to marry just about anyone to get back to her old station.  And, with the Capulets needing money, he could have made a nice deal for those girls.  He was just too much of a wimp to stand up to his shrew of a wife.  She's terrible.  Was awful to this girls before Juliet even died.  I don't know why they wouldn't let Rosaline go to the nunnery.  They probably didn't need her as a servant and that would be one less mouth to feed.

Escal-ass would've never been allowed to marry Rosaline.  His Dad told him no and even sent him away.  Now that tensions are that much higher, he think he can be with a Capulet girl?  Dumbass!  I did cheer when he stabbed the Lord at dinner.  Finally taking control.  

What is the opposite of Florence Nightengale Syndrome?  I don't know if Paris will fall for Olivia but she's already a goner for him.  

[jhlipton]

Lord Capulet can't get money for Rosalind or Olivia -- the family of the bride pays a bride-price or dowry to the family of the groom.  Once Romeo and Juliet's marriage was announced, be very sure Lord Montegue would be asking for his payment -- one of the reasons he wanted the marriage.

On 6/5/2017 at 5:11 PM, hummingbird said:

Costumes are all over the place regarding historical period but really well done 

I had thought that Dr. Joseph-Ignace Guillotin invented the device that bears his name, but it was around since 1280 or so.  I doubt it was used in Verona, though.  That seemed anachronistic to me.

9 hours ago, doram said:

I got the vibe that Shylock was Lord C's creditor in that scene.

I like that idea.

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, doram said:

So technically, Verona doesn't know that Romeo and Juliet were husband and wife? They know that they were probably secret lovers, and Juliet committed suicide because Romeo was exiled, and he subsequently killed himself but not that they were actually wed?

Exactly.  They found them together, so they can assume there was a relationship, and maybe suspect that they wed.  Definitely fodder for the rumour mill.

[jhlipton]

One more thing:  [O]livia can't wed until Rosalind is accounted for, either by marriage or nunning (this is the plot of The Taming of the Shrew -- Katherine's sisters want to marry, but can't until the one that doesn't want to marry is taken care of).

[Destiny74]

I realize the bride's family pays the dowry but if the marriage was to a good family with money, they may have been able to get some funds for the cathedral through the new in-laws.

[thuganomics85]

Romeo's body getting dismembered wasn't anywhere close to the most violent thing I ever saw on television, but for ABC, I was surprise it went as far as it did.  Definitely think the person won't be either a Montague or Capulet, so I'm guessing it is either a third party who wants to keep this feud going or Isabella wanted to get Escalus scared and back onto the game plan.

I'm guessing that they have to marry Rosaline first since she is the oldest and this is the reason the Capulets can't just ask Livia to marry Benvolio, who would probably be like "Oh, hell yeah!" about it, and this entire conflict would amount to nothing.

Not sure whose performance of the "older actors" is my favorite: Grant Bowler sleazing it up, Zuleikha Robinson dialing it up to 11 with the "mourning, crying, vengeful, angry mother" act, or Anthony Head being under the impression that this is legit Shakespeare and playing it straight.  Either way, it's so much fun!

Did think this was a sizable improvement from the pilot.  Still very silly, but I'm finding the characters more interesting (or fun), the cast is overall good, and, if nothing else, I want to see how this plays out.  And for a summer show, that works for now. 

[Cigale]

"I will not take the fall!"

Ha ha ha ha!

I saw it coming from a mile away.  

Edited June 7, 2017 by sisterspoon

[Irlandesa]

43 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Romeo's body getting dismembered wasn't anywhere close to the most violent thing I ever saw on television, but for ABC, I was surprise it went as far as it did.

I cracked up at how red the blood was.

[peachmangosteen]

I don't care, I'm already obsessed with this stupid show.

Escalus was better this week, but the actor is the worst of the bunch and he doesn't have enough charisma to make up for it. I wish I liked him more because I fear that he/Rosaline is endgame and that will disappoint me because I think Rosaline/Benvolio is a much better ship.

Super down for Livia/Paris. The ships here are ticking all my boxes with the tropes and I am feeling it.

The costumes really are stunning. I'm surprised this show had the money for them.

Does anyone know what the ratings are like?

Edited June 7, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Jazzy24]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't care, I'm already obsessed with this stupid show.

Escalus was better this week, but the actor is the worst of the bunch and he doesn't have enough charisma to make up for it. I wish I liked him more because I fear that he/Rosaline is endgame and that will disappoint me because I think Rosaline/Benvolio is a much better ship.

Super down for Livia/Paris. The ships here are ticking all my boxes with the tropes and I am feeling it.

The costumes really are stunning. I'm surprised this show had the money for them.

Does anyone know what the ratings are like?

I'm like 99.99% that Rosaline and Benvolio are endgame. 

[peachmangosteen]

I hope you're right. But honestly I'm sure this show will be canceled after this season anyway.

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I'm like 99.99% that Rosaline and Benvolio are endgame. 

I think Rosaline and Benvolio are endgam as well.  I like Rosaline with Escalus, but I find the Benvolio pairing intriguing and watching them fall in love and beginning to root for them (if the show lasts long enough) as their actual alliance wrecks havoc on their respective uncles' plans could be a thing of beauty.  Also, watching Escalus's head spin when he gets what he asked for -- a union of Rosaline and Benvolio.  Their pairing could be the ultimate case of be careful what you wish for.

[LydiaMoon1]

I completely agree with the above.  The whole game will change when Ros & Ben fall for one another, not only for the two scheming Lords but for Escalus as well.  Maybe even for Escalus most profoundly.  Yes, Escalus is trying to save Verona.  Yes, as the oldest, Ros is the appropriate sister to marry off, and this union returns her nobility and secures her financial future.  Still, I think the main reason Escalus is willing to have Rosaline marry Benvolio is because he doesn't for one minute believe that she could ever fall in love with a Montague. He's never considered the possibility that he could lose her love.  The second he realises that might happen is the moment the real phuckery begins, because he won't take it well.

[truthaboutluv]

23 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does anyone know what the ratings are like?

Not great. Especially for a major network like ABC. Variety reports 0.5 rating share and 2.1 million viewers in the 18-49 demographic. Slightly good news is that those numbers stayed even for the second episode. So it didn't gain but it didn't lose either. But yeah, doubtful ABC keeps this show. My understanding is there was a lot of negative reviews and feedback before it even aired and ABC actually pushed it back from when they originally intended to air it.

Then they pulled back on much of the promotion so the consensus is they're just looking to get it over with. But who knows, maybe some good word of mouth will build enough buzz that might give it life. Because I have been seeing much of the same reactions here on other sites. Basically that many people are surprised at how much they are enjoying it. 

 

3 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 Still, I think the main reason Escalus is willing to have Rosaline marry Benvolio is because he doesn't for one minute believe that she could ever fall in love with a Montague. He's never considered the possibility that he could lose her love.  The second he realises that might happen is the moment the real phuckery begins, because he won't take it well.

I completely agree with this. The whole basis of the triangle will be the unexpected love story between Rosline and Benvolio. And like others I'm definitely shipping Rosaline and Benvolio more.

 

15 hours ago, Jazzy24 said:

I'm like 99.99% that Rosaline and Benvolio are endgame. 

And the show is called Still Star-Crossed. If you tie it to the theme of the continuing war between the Montagues and the Capulets, it would fit Rosaline and Benvolio being together. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[xtwheeler]

On 6/6/2017 at 5:56 PM, luckyroll3 said:

Exactly.  They found them together, so they can assume there was a relationship, and maybe suspect that they wed.  Definitely fodder for the rumour mill.

If I'm not mistaken, in the play the Friar reveals their marriage while summarizing the entire plot. Since he has a different motivation here (being paid off) I think it is safe to assume this detail is up in the air.

[peachmangosteen]

@truthaboutluv When I saw a notif that you had quoted a post of mine I just assumed it was on The Bachelorette forum lol!

5 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

My understanding is there was a lot of negative reviews and feedback before it even aired and ABC actually pushed it back from when they originally intended to air it.

 

Yea that seems to be what happened, which is sorta weird to me. I don't think the show is that bad. It definitely is more of a summer show though so I think them pushing it back for negative reasons actually ended up helping it.

I don't have any doubt the show will be canceled after this season so my only hope is that Rosaline and Benvolio make out before the end.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

@truthaboutluv When I saw a notif that you had quoted a post of mine I just assumed it was on The Bachelorette forum lol!

lol, understandable. 

[peachmangosteen]

I haven't read the books so I know nothing and I'm gonna need to see everything you just talked about @doram .

I just realized that there's a chance that ABC could cancel this even before they air the whole season, which would cause me great pain. Don't do me like this, ABC!

Edited June 8, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Last Time Lord]

Okay. I'm hooked. I am now in love with this stupid, cheesy show that I just cannot get enough of.

I think the pilot suffered from the Ludicrous Speed retelling of Romeo & Juliet, and because of that, the show's characters got shortchanged, and are just now starting to get the necessary development that they should have gotten, previously.

This episode made me care about every character.

I'm really interested in Paris. In most adaptations, he's either omitted completely, or he's there, but they cut his death by Romeo in Juliet's crypt to make Romeo more sympathetic. Yet, even when omitted, they never cut the Prince's line that he lost "a brace of kinsmen", which just makes no sense.

So... yeah. Loved this episode.

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea that seems to be what happened, which is sorta weird to me. I don't think the show is that bad. It definitely is more of a summer show though so I think them pushing it back for negative reasons actually ended up helping it.

Never underestimate the fragility of white egos.  "It's too BLACK!!!!!"  The reviewers may not say that, but I'm sure more than a few are thinking it.

[Last Time Lord]

3 hours ago, doram said:

Well they kinda said that with the emphasis on how the color-blind casting was 'distracting' or 'gimmicky', 'irritating', or just plain 'weird'. I remember reading a comment on a TVLine article that went: "it took a while to get used to black people talking like these characters, but once I did I enjoyed the show." Translation: "I would LOVE this show if it was acted by a whiter cast." 

Which is just a disgusting attitude to have in 2017. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, doram said:

I remember reading a comment on a TVLine article that went: "it took a while to get used to black people talking like these characters, but once I did I enjoyed the show." 

 

Oh wow. 

I do think at first the color blind casting made it kinda difficult to figure out who everyone was/who they were related to simply because I'm not used to seeing it, but I figured things out by the end of the pilot.

[Last Time Lord]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh wow. 

I do think at first the color blind casting made it kinda difficult to figure out who everyone was/who they were related to simply because I'm not used to seeing it, but I figured things out by the end of the pilot.

I won't lie. Seeing Romeo and then Lord Montague did give me a moment of "Huh. "

Got over it pretty damn quickly, though. It wasn't even my first time seeing that, though. In 8th grade, when we went on a school field trip to see Hamlet, Hamlet was played a white actor, and Claudius was played by a black actor. 

I still applaud the show for hiring who they thought was the best for the roles, skin color be damned. 

[jhlipton]

On 6/9/2017 at 10:32 AM, doram said:

Well they kinda said that with the emphasis on how the color-blind casting was 'distracting' or 'gimmicky', 'irritating', or just plain 'weird'. I remember reading a comment on a TVLine article that went: "it took a while to get used to black people talking like these characters, but once I did I enjoyed the show." Translation: "I would LOVE this show if it was acted by a whiter cast." 

These are, of course, the same "I am not a racist"s who will happily quote King's "not being judged by the color of their skin" -- almost always when its whites being "oppressed" -- but nothing else.

[ihavenoidea]

Are they skipping a week for basketball?  If so, bummer.  

[ursula]

On 6/5/2017 at 5:11 PM, hummingbird said:

Costumes are all over the place regarding historical period but really well done 

 

On 6/5/2017 at 10:59 PM, SimoneS said:

The costumes are mostly historically incorrect, but they are beautiful with lush fabrics including stunning silks and leathers. They must have cost a ton.

Shakespeare was anachronistic. Doublets existed in Ancient Roman and Scottish men dealt in dollars before that currency was invented. So this oddly makes this adaptation more true to Shakespeare's spirit than one striving for historical accuracy. lol.

On 6/8/2017 at 6:19 PM, doram said:

I wonder if we can start a wish-list thread for this, especially for people who've read the books?

I for one want to see:

  Reveal hidden contents

The near-death experience when Rosaline falls off the cliffs, Benvolio thinks she's dead for like a minute, and when he finally hurls her up, he plants a big one on her then proceeds to act like it never happened.

Basically the whole adventure with them running off on horses and camping out in the woods, and seeking shelter in monasteries, convents and garrisons.

I really want Rosaline's plans to be a nun to become a big plot point. 

Add me as someone who would love to see that! This story is full of all the best tropes.