S05.E13: The Soviet Division

[Inquisitionist]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

My big question is:  is this how the show is going to end Martha's storyline?  If it ends here I won't be entirely upset.  Martha The put upon secretary.  Poor Martha is the one who gains some semblance of a happy ending.

You might want to read the interview with the showrunners that I posted in the media thread a little while ago.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

I assume this is going to be part of the story next season, now that Kimmy is coming back into prominence. Philip has kind of been coasting with her, which makes sense given where he's been mentally, and that he was planning to leave. Now that her dad is a much more important target that they'll want to secure access to for the long term, and given that Kimmy's aging is inevitably going to change the situation, I assume Philip will have to make some changes to his approach. It might not actually be the big break he's hoping for.

That's how Philip got in with Kimmy in the first place-by approaching her group of friends and offering first fake IDs, and then pot. They've always known about "Jim". If any of them ever compromised him, Jim would cease to be and the Centre would come up with another way into the house. Kimmy was an unusually young target that required a different approach, but the fundamentals underlying the operation with her are the same as they are across all their work.

It's why I've always thought the kimmie arc was the worst, until Fields of Wheat this year. It's nonsensical. The CIA knows that Kimmie's dad had his identity compromised by a foreign intelligence service. Phil just continues to traipse into the house every couple weeks to swap out tapes in an undiscovered recorder in a brief case, and is now supplying pot to a group of teenagers in the home. 

Yeah, I'm really disappointed that the Kimmie arc is going to play a central role in the final season.

[SlovakPrincess]

14 hours ago, skippylou said:

I'll grade the seasons: 1 A+, 2 A, 3 C, 4 C-, 5 D+. 

I would give seasons 3 and 4 at least a sold B -- but I can't argue with the D+ grade for this season, unless I'm grading on a curve relative to other shows.  I still really LIKE the show, but this season was so disappointing and frustrating.  

Part of the problem is that I found William and the infectious diseases plot from last year far more compelling than ... wheat.  Also, the beginning of the season carried over interesting questions: had William told Stan anything that would later click and make him suspect P and E?  Would Paige dating Stan's kid create risks?  Would there be follow up on Gaad's murder?  Would Oleg and Stan have to keep up some kind of contact?     All of that got dropped or handled in a pretty boring way, and we spent all season watching people brood and mope.  

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I assume Philip will have to make some changes to his approach. It might not actually be the big break he's hoping for.

Yes, it seems significant too that Elizabeth is claiming that she'll handle the spy stuff and Philip will just change the tapes when at the moment the tapes are the most important spy stuff there is. And that relationship requires care and feeding. Philip is also still involved with Deirdre, the show made a point of telling us. Elizabeth's just being naive imagining that she'll just handle all the spy stuff. 

I can't remember if I said this here or not, but Elizabeth even once said to Karen that she wanted the chance to be there for Philip as he's been there for her and she really hasn't. She's been there for him, but he supported her during Gregory's suicide-by-cop, the kidnapping of the CIA guy, he ran to her rescue after he sent her into danger in The Colonel. Then he took care of *all of it* -- kids, travel agency and spy work -- completely on his own for 3 months. Now twice this season she's suggested that she'll just handle the hard stuff, but both times Philip knows that's not how this works.

The truth is, Elizabeth's pattern is that she really doesn't have much experience protecting others or carrying him that way. 

[izabella]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Stan definitely had a suspicious look on his face. Like he told Henry, he is basically suspicious of everyone. I don't think it was a OMG SHE'S AN AGENT suspicion but more like, Is something off or am just getting a different reaction than I expected? Hopefully if he continues to be suspicious he follows through on his hunch this time.

I read his look as confused and disapointed.  He was excited about his decision, and he knows his ex-wife would have loved it if he had made that decision when they were married, so it was unexpected that this woman was encouraging him to stay on the job even though he felt like crap doing it.  He probably thought she would be excited, too, and is disappointed that she's not supportive of his decision.  He might not trust anyone, but I'm not convinced he's suspicious of her yet. 

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

I like the idea of Martha raising spies or training spies as a spin-off. Watching her try to explain the American way of life and American culture to Soviets would be fantastic.

I would totally watch that.

Edited May 31, 2017 by izabella

[Valmarmar]

12 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

When Stan tells his gf that he wants to leave his dept. and she tries to talk him out of it - how are y'all interpreting the look on his face?  Surprise?  Sadness that she's not supporting him?  Suspicious?

My gut reaction to his reaction was that he was 1) flattered 2) "maybe she's right, they NEED me to carry on"

[Dev F]

42 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Then why start having that interaction now? It's reckless and stupid, even if you think you'll being going back to the USSR.

I could see it being part of Philip's plan to disengage from the op -- to break the news of his departure to Kimmy in a big group of friends, so she's less likely to think that he's leaving her all alone and unloved. There's still certainly an element of risk to it, but unlike a "throwing regular pot parties" scenario, I don't think it's so out there that the kids are definitely going to be spreading it up and down the neighborhood or anything like that.

Quote

I cannot understand why a KGB illegal would supply pot to a group of American teenagers, all but one he has no ability to effectively manipulate, in the home of an important CIA officer, whom the CIA knows has had his identity compromised by a foreign intelligence service. It's just beyond stupid.

The CIA has no particular knowledge that Breland has been compromised. They know that at one point his underling Ted Paaswell was being tailed by someone, but it wasn't until after they shook CIA surveillance that P&E followed Ted and Kimmy to Breland's house.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Dev F

[Mrs Shibbles]

15 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Question: Did anyone else think Elizabeth was rethinking leaving? She was looking at all the trappings of an American life (the tv, the nice kitchen, the closet full of clothes and awesome 80s boots). . . was she realizing she wouldn't have those things back in mother Russia and maybe thinking life in America . . not SO bad . . . 

 It crossed my mind that the promotion of Kimmie's father was not the only reason she told Phillip she couldn't go back now. 

Random musical observation, but in addition to "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road",  we also got R.E.M.'s "So. Central Rain (I'm Sorry)" playing in the background at Kimmie's pot party.  Haven't heard that one in a while!

 

Regarding this season in general, in a way I feel like the writers wanted the audience to feel the same groaning despair all of the characters on the show seemed to be feeling .  Do we really want to still be doing this any more?  I hope the final season is worth it!

Edited May 31, 2017 by Mrs Shibbles
Spelling and words

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Dev F said:

I could see it being part of Philip's plan to disengage from the op -- to break the news of his departure to Kimmy in a big group of friends, so she's less likely to think that he's leaving her all along and unloved. There's still certainly an element of risk to it, but unlike a "throwing regular pot parties" scenario, I don't think it's so out there that the kids are definitely going to be spreading it up and down the neighborhood or anything like that.

The CIA has no particular knowledge that Breland has been compromised. They know that at one point his underling Ted Paaswell was being tailed by someone, but it wasn't until after they shook CIA surveillance that P&E followed Ted and Kimmy to Breland's house.

They shook surveillance by a hit and run car accident. The paranoid people that work in this craft would strongly suspect it was executed by a foreign service, and not a coincidence. They would assume that the ids of the entire Afghan group, including Kimmie's dad, was blown.

[SusanSunflower]

One "use" of an older guy, like Jim, is to keep the younger suitors at bay.  Jim has already demonstrated  that he has qualms, limits, issues, so Kimmie (probably) can (realistically) trust him a lot more than some stoned and horny peer ... I had a number of platonic relationships with older men when I was her age (well 3) and like Kimmie & Jim, I saw them rarely and our "special relationship" probably would have withered and died if it had "gone anywhere" and it never did .... and yes, it involved dope smoking and wine drinking (in moderation) ... Actually in high school, the word was that I was shacked up in Topanga with some gnarly motorcycle dude ... which explained why so few guys hit on me, until I started going out with my first boyfriend. (They had obviously glimpsed me with my long-haired and bearded stepfather or my scary looking radical brother ... (who, in fact, were about the same age, mommy robbed a cradle) 

[SunnyBeBe]

28 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

My big question is:  is this how the show is going to end Martha's storyline?  If it ends here I won't be entirely upset.  Martha The put upon secretary.  Poor Martha is the one who gains some semblance of a happy ending.  

It may come down how much Alison Wright is available.  

Alison Wright carried this episode for me.  She conveyed a story with only using her facial expressions and look in her eyes for a few seconds.  Thanks to her and Gabriel, I have a little something great to take away from the season.  

I just didn't get that from anything else.  I mean, Renee and Stan....oh my....she's pretty cold.  Her response was just odd.  I couldn't tell if Stan thought so too or not.  I've read upthread that others did think he was taken aback.  If P was really that curious, he could have gone over to her apt to personally check out what caused that water leak.  Hmmm........was it done intentionally? I think it was pretty itty of the writers to not reveal is Renee is a spy this season.  

[Eulipian 5k]

Isn't more the case that teenage, Wash. DC suburban, kids in the 1980's might more notice who brought the Molly or the ecstasy than who brought the weed or beer to the hang out at Kimmy's dad's place?

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Isn't more the case that teenage, Wash. DC suburban, kids in the 1980's might more notice who brought the Molly or the ecstasy than who brought the weed or beer to the hang out at Kimmy's dad's place?

What they would notice was that it was an out of place old guy.

[Eulipian 5k]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

What they would notice was that it was an out of place old guy.

Who? the "All right, all right, all right" guy that they always need to get access to the alcohol?"

[Chaos Theory]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I just didn't get that from anything else.  I mean, Renee and Stan....oh my....she's pretty cold.  Her response was just odd.  I couldn't tell if Stan thought so too or not.  I've read upthread that others did think he was taken aback.  If P was really that curious, he could have gone over to her apt to personally check out what caused that water leak.  Hmmm........was it done intentionally? I think it was pretty itty of the writers to not reveal is Renee is a spy this season.  

The only weird vibe I got was the same ones Philip got.  The convient "burst pipe" and hey they are living together.  And didn't Philip use a similar speech on Martha to get her to keep her job?  Do I think Stan is suspicious?  Honestly I think he was more surprised that she would want him to keep his job where his wife would have jumped at meer idea of him leaving.  That surprise may eventually lead to suspicion if she is not careful.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Who? the "All right, all right, all right" guy that they always need to get access to the alcohol?"

The old guy who brought the pot and gives the teenage girls backrubs.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

The only weird vibe I got was the same ones Philip got.  The convient "burst pipe" and hey they are living together.  And didn't Philip use a similar speech on Martha to get her to keep her job?  Do I think Stan is suspicious?  Honestly I think he was more surprised that she would want him to keep his job where his wife would have jumped at meer idea of him leaving.  That surprise may eventually lead to suspension if she is not careful.

Yeah, because, I can't imagine how Stan could ever explain his way out of having a live-in girlfriend AND two best friend/neighbors, who are all KGB.  That's weird.  And the way he pleads a case for Oleg's mercy....I don't know.  Odd. 

ALSO, when Stan said that some kind of assignment was a long game, was he referring to Oleg OR the new recruit and her hockey player fiance?  

Did anyone notice the hockey poster over Pasha's bed?  Who was the featured player?

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

One thing that I didn't understand is why P & E kept saying to Tuan that Pasha could have died.  Well, unless there is some kind of policy that prohibits the killing of a minor in KGB spy work, then, so what.  Why would two spies be more concerned with Pasha dying than their mission?  Yes, I know that they explained to Tuan that if he died, then the mother could become so distraught that she would be rendered useless, due to her grief, but, that's not really what I picked up on.  To me, it seemed like they really were concerned over the boy and had genuine feelings for his parents, should they lose him.  I suppose that is what Tuan referred to as bourgeoisie.  ? ( Though, that seems to refer to property than affection for family. )  I also thought that P & E stressing concern that Alexi's family had to be destroyed was odd.  The important thing is the mission.  Why this big focus on the family's welfare?  It just seems odd to me.  Like Claudia said....I can tell The Center, but, it won't matter.  I guess P & E think that with their clout, they get to have some people given special treatment. 

I can't imagine why E told P that she would like to take Tuan with them (when they were planning to return to Russia).  He was a real jerk imo, even before he unloaded about his report.  Making him part of your family?  Odd. 

They didn't seem to whisper with the water on in the kitchen when they were having that discussion with Tuan. Did they they have no fear that the cover house was bugged?

Elizabeth could have told Tuan that he is too young to appreciate what it's like to have a family and one of your children gets into real life threatening danger.

I don't think he would have really appreciated just how serious that could be. But at least he might get an inkling that what he did could be considered very wrong by adults and "the Center" just might view it much more seriously than he did. At least he might then give it a second thought and realize he didn't really appreciate the nature of the harm he did.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The old guy who brought the pot and gives the teenage girls backrubs.

Only when asked. Important distinction.

[SlovakPrincess]

I wish I could get excited about the Renee-as-covert-agent speculation, but so far she's been barely onscreen and incredibly boring.  

The "alright, alright, alright" guy in Dazed and Confused was at least an alumni of the school.  In this scenario, "Jim" went from randomly being at a teen party and (the teens probably assumed) peddling drugs ... to Kimmie's friend who comes to her house all the time.  That is going to seem weird to Kimmie's friends, and drive gossip.   

Edited May 31, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Elizabeth could have told Tuan that he is too young to appreciate what it's like to have a family and one of your children gets into real life threatening danger.

I don't think he would have really appreciated just how serious that could be. But at least he might get an inkling that what he did could be considered very wrong by adults and "the Center" just might view it much more seriously than he did. At least he might then give it a second thought and realize he didn't really appreciate the nature of the harm he did.

I've tried to consider all options. I just don't see why The Center would be worried of how extreme you have to be to get a mission accomplished.  And that sacrificing some lives is a part of the job.  Why is Pasha's life more valuable than other lives that have been lost, like Hans? I mean, he was doing everything right, but, for the cause, he had to go. Collateral damage. They've always been fine with it before.  I don't buy this change in them regarding Pasha.   But, with Pasha, they really seemed to reguard his life with much more value.  I'm not saying that it was wrong, but, that it just wasn't characteristic of them and not what I would expect. Showing so much concern about Pasha to Tuan, just seemed out of character.  Hard for me swallow.  

[Bannon]

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

You have posted several times that P&E (as well as other characters in this show) cannot possibly behave in the way they do if they are supposed to be as skilled as they are and as adept at their jobs as they are.

You make your arguments very well and I can't recall any time that I've ever substantially disagreed with what you've said.

I'm interested in trying to understand why this has happened. Is it possible that as the writers create situations that are increasingly more complicated and as P & E have to juggle more and more of these situations concurrently, that it's just too difficult to write them anywhere near to the level of realism they would be if they were actual real life agents?

I also wonder if there are any other factors beyond the two in the above paragraph that make it increasingly difficult on the writers to maintain the same level of excitement as they did in the first two seasons?

After all, as I recall, both of the showrunners have worked in this field and so they probably understand the effect of managing more and more cases simultaneously and having to deal with what happens when one or more of them blows up in some unexpected direction.

I'd be interested in asking your opinion why P&E appear as if they've turned off much of their brain power? Do you think the writers have just gotten to the "burn out" stage themselves or are they just getting lazy or have they just run out of good story lines?

This seems to me to be a real puzzle - for sure!

I just don't know. It would have made a lot more sense to have P&E grasp early on that the wheat thing was benign, but have the stupid bureucracy (and all bureaucracies are stupid) of The Center push them to go forward. Then, when innocents are harmed (and it would not have to be yet another homicide when somebody stumbles upon them), they would have their noses rubbed into the pointlessness of the harm, while it was happening  followed by disgust when they proved the wheat thing wss benign.

Same thing with the Nazi hunt. Why not have P&E be smart, put the Nazi in a secure location, but have the likely outcome play out, it being ambiguous whether she was being truthful? I think the writers decided to kill off the innocent husband, to heighten internal conflict, so they contrived yet another murder.

Eh, the show's just likely not for me any longer. It happens with almost all shows I watch eventually.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I wish I could get excited about the Renee-as-covert-agent speculation, but so far she's been barely onscreen and incredibly boring.  

It kind of just seems silly, really. Three of the KGB's top agents huddled around this one guy who's already throwing a wrench in CIA plans to turn Oleg Burov and not wanting to lean to hard on this Sophia woman. Not the best use of resources, it seems to me. Especially when you could have just kept Nina there, for goodness' sakes. If they'd found some way to give her a second chance that would have been useful.

[Bannon]

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Only when asked. Important distinction.

Not so much to someone who typically wants to avoid bringing attention to himself, in a group of people.

[jrlr]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I have to admit that in that scene at Kimmy's......Jimmy looked really good, imo. When he got up to go follow Kimmy into the kitchen.....I thought he looked exceptionally sexy.  Mod hair, glasses and all! lol I don't think I've ever seen his jeans look any better. 

I thought he looked like Jim Jones.

[Razzberry]

I was actually disgusted by Philip's plan to tell his children only at the last minute that they would now be living in Russia and their life as they'd known it was essentially over.   Especially since they didn't need to go back, they were choosing to, because of...job stress, I guess?   His chest-pounding "This family will stick together!" is serving his needs, not theirs.   Tough it out for a couple more years and let the kids decide for themselves.

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I wish I could get excited about the Renee-as-covert-agent speculation, but so far she's been barely onscreen and incredibly boring.  

The "alright, alright, alright" guy in Dazed and Confused was at least an alumni of the school.  In this scenario, "Jim" went from randomly being at a teen party and (the teens probably assumed) peddling drugs ... to Kimmie's friend who comes to her house all the time.  That is going to seem weird to Kimmie's friends, and drive gossip.   

Exactly.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Not so much to someone who typically wants to avoid bringing attention to himself, in a group of people.

Didn't see him bringing much attention to himself in that group by doing that. 

Quote

The "alright, alright, alright" guy in Dazed and Confused was at least an alumni of the school.  In this scenario, "Jim" went from randomly being at a teen party and (the teens probably assumed) peddling drugs ... to Kimmie's friend who comes to her house all the time.  That is going to seem weird to Kimmie's friends, and drive gossip.   

No he didn't. There's no random appearance at a teen party and then they know he's always at her house. They know this guy as a friend of hers.

Edited May 31, 2017 by sistermagpie

[SusanSunflower]

Quote

.I thought he looked exceptionally sexy.  Mod hair, glasses and all! lol I don't think I've ever seen his jeans look any better. 

Rhys is truly a magician / shape shifter with the body language 

[Chaos Theory]

12 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've tried to consider all options. I just don't see why The Center would be worried of how extreme you have to be to get a mission accomplished.  And that sacrificing some lives is a part of the job.  Why is Pasha's life more valuable than other lives that have been lost, like Hans? I mean, he was doing everything right, but, for the cause, he had to go. Collateral damage. They've always been fine with it before.  I don't buy this change in them regarding Pasha.   But, with Pasha, they really seemed to reguard his life with much more value.  I'm not saying that it was wrong, but, that it just wasn't characteristic of them and not what I would expect. Showing so much concern about Pasha to Tuan, just seemed out of character.  Hard for me swallow.  

Hans would have died anyway.  He is a special case.  They didn't just kill him to be mean.  They killed him because the alternative was actually worse.  

P&E dont just kill people because it's the path of least resistance.  Even with the woman in Fo Mail Robots Dream of Electrical Sheep which was Elizabeth killing a civilian who had nothing to do with nothing she did it because she felt she had no other choice.

i am not saying she is right.  I am saying Tuan went too quickly for the easiest answer where P&E were trying to talk both parents into going voluntarily.  

[Bannon]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

Didn't see him bringing much attention to himself in that group by doing that. 

If you think it is considered normal, by teenagers, to have an old dude sitting around with the teenagers in a parent's living room, smoking pot, giving a teenage girl a backrub, you have had different experiences with teenagers than I.

[Eulipian 5k]

19 minutes ago, Bannon said:

30 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Who? the "All right, all right, all right" guy that they always need to get access to the alcohol?"

The old guy who brought the pot and gives the teenage girls backrubs.

Actually this is a standard character in a lot of "Hollywood" writing, from the Jeff Bridges older guy in the Last Picture Show, to Donald Sutherland as teacher in Animal House, to the Matthew McConnaghy character quoted above in Fast Times..., there's always one of them at the party, in the "movies", for decades going back. The real creep factor is when there's a 13 yr old girl at a party of old folks ie Roman Polansky.

[jrlr]

29 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, because, I can't imagine how Stan could ever explain his way out of having a live-in girlfriend AND two best friend/neighbors, who are all KGB.  That's weird.  And the way he pleads a case for Oleg's mercy....I don't know.  Odd. 

And don't forget that Martha was his secretary.  Poor old Stan is just a spy magnet!  

ALSO, when Stan said that some kind of assignment was a long game, was he referring to Oleg OR the new recruit and her hockey player fiance?  

Did anyone notice the hockey poster over Pasha's bed?  Who was the featured player?

I thought the hockey poster looked like the autographed picture that Sofia's hockey-player/lie detector b.f. gave to Stan and Adderholt.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If you think it is considered normal, by teenagers, to have an old dude sitting around with the teenagers in a parent's living room, smoking pot, giving a teenage girl a backrub, you have had different experiences with teenagers than I.

I think it's well within something that could believably happen in 1984 and I didn't catch any of them looking horrified or giving each other secret looks about it. Seemed like these were teens who were enjoying the fact that he was an adult and had accepted that this was Kimmy's friend--maybe her boyfriend, and it was fine with them if she was sleeping with an older guy since that's her preference. When one  girl wanted attention by begging for a back rub and whined when he stopped he continued without being creepy about it. Since he hadn't pushed himself into the group or onto the girl I didn't see any reason for any of them to be uncomfortable. 

ETA: Basically, since none of the teenagers in the scene were acting like they thought this was a big thing, I went by their reactions.

Edited May 31, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Bannon]

College relationships, between students and old people in the real world, are a completely different thing. This is a story about a KGB illegal who is seeking to avoid notice by authorities, and adults in general.  Modeling after standard characters in Hollywood writing doesn't seem like a good idea to me, in the context of the universe being portrayed, or in terms of dramatic structure. If we don't agree, that's ok.

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Matthew McConnaghy character quoted above in Fast Times...

Dazed and Confused.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

38 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone notice the hockey poster over Pasha's bed?  Who was the featured player?

I noticed it right away and wondered if indeed it's Sophia's boyfriend (Gennady, is that his name?)

Also, crazy question, but does anyone here happen to know if all of the Moscow-based scenes are actually filmed there? I only wondered because the scene with Martha and the child looks SO EXACTLY like where my grandparents used to live that it made me wonder (I know some scenes that allegedly take place in DC are actually filmed in Brooklyn ... my grandparents lived in Riverdale, which is a neighborhood in the Bronx where there were a TON of Russian immigrants, not that that matters in this case). 

[Eulipian 5k]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

12 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Matthew McConnaghy character quoted above in Fast Times...

Dazed and Confused.

Thx, "Hazed and Conflated"

[SlovakPrincess]

I can only speak to being a suburban high schooler in the 90s, but I do recall one girl who claimed to have a 30-year-old boyfriend and we were all like "whaaaaaaaatttt????"  Thirties seemed super old to us back then and we couldn't even imagine how you'd meet someone in that age group socially.  I can't imagine 1984 was too much different in that regard.

Anyway, while everyone is different and Kimmie and friends may be unfazed by the age of her good pal Jim, it would be smarter of Philip to assume the other teens might find it odd and limit his exposure.  Of course, it may be that he couldn't tell Kimmie keep him secret from her friends without that getting suspicious and so here we are.  

Anyway, at some point Kimmie may want to come clean to her dad, or news of Jim may get back to her dad, at which point Philip will have to be all "ok, I'm moving to Japan for real this time!"

Edited May 31, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's well within something that could believably happen in 1984 and I didn't catch any of them looking horrified or giving each other secret looks about it. Seemed like these were teens who were enjoying the fact that he was an adult and had accepted that this was Kimmy's friend--maybe her boyfriend, and it was fine with them if she was sleeping with an older guy since that's her preference. When one  girl wanted attention by begging for a back rub and whined when he stopped he continued without being creepy about it. Since he hadn't pushed himself into the group or onto the girl I didn't see any reason for any of them to be uncomfortable. 

My experience with teenagers is they are frequently very gossip prone, and an old guy supplying the weed, giving backrubs, possibly being Kimmie's lover, is prime fodder for gossip. KGB illegals would not wish to be prime fodder for gossip. Maybe the teenagers you have been around have been circumspect in their indulgence of gossip, and would not have thought 40 year old lovers to be a worthy topic of much gossip. That hasn't been my experience

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Bannon said:

My experience with teenagers is they are frequently very gossip prone, and an old guy supplying the weed, giving backrubs, possibly being Kimmie's lover, is prime fodder for gossip. KGB illegals would not wish to be prime fodder for gossip. Maybe the teenagers you have been around have been circumspect in their indulgence of gossip, and would not have thought 40 year old lovers to be a worthy topic of much gossip. That hasn't been my experience

No, I see your point. But that was a risk they embraced when they sent Philip in. The whole point was that this girl wanted a father-aged boyfriend so they sent one in, and they did it in the open. His relationship with her has never been completely secret. She had him pick her up at two parties where kids saw him, they've walked in public after school. Certainly this could inspire some gossip, but in my experience, at least at that time, there was tons of gossip that never got anywhere near the adult world. That seemed to be the world that Kimmy was living in. It was established early on that where Philip didn't want to be caught at the house by Kimmy's father, the relationship itself was never a secret from every other teenager. The other kids at the party treated him just the way Kimmy and her friends did the first time they met. The weed and the back rubs both seemed more expected than something they'd discuss afterwards as weird. I think Kimmy had established all the context before the party.

[Eulipian 5k]

A KGB illegal would have moved out by Episode 2 of Season 1 as soon as they realized they were living across the street from an FBI Counter Intelligence Officer. But that's TV, and we've been buckled in for the ride.

[teddysmom]

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The reason this season was so less interesting to me is that the writers started including P & E in the habit of having characters turning their brains off, so the plot would go in the direction desired. Suddenly, P & E aren't bright enough to see that there isn't a damned thing about the midges and wheat that remotely resembles an American top secret plan to attack the world's other nuclear superpower, but we get the killin' couple to rub out another poor slob with irregular work habits, so Phil's internal conflict grows. Ugh. Phil and Liz suddenly are so clueless that they do a home invasion on Miss Nazi Collaborator with Venereal Disease of 1942, and then interrogate her in the home, not bothering to grab a picture from early on in her arrival as a refugee, so as to make sure the innocent husband can be yet another homicide victim by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Internal conflict mounts! Ugh. This episode, they have Phil so confident in his predictive abilities with regard to American teenagers that he is willing to be the creepy middle aged guy who hangs out, supplies pot, and gives back rubs to a crowd of them in the home of his CIA target. Why not have a billboard put up on the beltway put up which sez "Hey, teens of parents with highly classified jobs, free pot and backrubs next Tuesday! Call KGB-USSR! But don't tell the grown ups!" Let's not forget the same stunt, stupidly overestimating the ability to predict future behavior of targets, with regard to the good pastor, in telling him of the plan to relocate to the USSR, with Paige and Henry in tow. Ugh.

We could chalk it up to lazy writing, or maybe the writers think this shows how burned out (burnt out?) P&E are. That they're not using good judgment, making sloppy mistakes, etc.   The problem is that they waited until the last two episodes to explain it, so that the viewer thinks, "man this show I used to love is getting to be a hate watch".   I used to empathize with P&E for the predicament they were in, but now I find myself yelling at the tv "THE US didn't sabotage wheat!!" "What about the shit Stalin did after WWII? To your own people?" 

But at least Elizabeth does realize that going back to Russia means giving up her super sweet wardrobe and appliances. 

And please for the love of God, someone explain the homes they live in.  The exteriors DO NOT MATCH THE INTERIORS! Hire better location managers!!! 

[SlovakPrincess]

1 minute ago, Eulipian 5k said:

A KGB illegal would have moved out by Episode 2 of Season 1 as soon as they realized they were living across the street from an FBI Counter Intelligence Officer. But that's TV, and we've been buckled in for the ride.

Except Stan is an idiot, so it's worked out fine for the Jennings!

[teddysmom]

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A KGB illegal would have moved out by Episode 2 of Season 1 as soon as they realized they were living across the street from an FBI Counter Intelligence Officer. But that's TV, and we've been buckled in for the ride.

 Don't forget mailbot!!  And Martha!  That was a sad/sweet scene with her and the little girl.  You lost your fake husband, and got to move to a country that is basically political hell on earth, but here's a super cute kid you can have? Are we square then? 

If the GF isn't  KGB I am really going to be pissed.  Speaking of, whatever happened to Tai Chi Guy? I thought they told Elizabeth she had to keep going back there for something.   Fuck it I don't even care anymore. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by teddysmom

[kokapetl]

There was an even older looking guy at Kimmie's party. 

Tuan reporting the Jennings for having "petit bourgeois concerns" seems right. They are petit bourgeoisie. 

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Except Stan is an idiot, so it's worked out fine for the Jennings!

I still loved the show when Stan and a few others were the only idiots! At this rate, by next season, nobody in D.C. will be able to feed themselves!

[Knuckles]

55 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone notice the hockey poster over Pasha's bed?

I did. I am not sure if it was the Wings of the Soviet, or the Red Army...both great hockey teams in the 80s. Both were employed full-time by the Soviet Government, and that led to plenty of arguments with the Olympic Committee at the time, since the amateur rule was still in play. The Canadians especially were incensed by this, but the Russians usually got away with it. That's why the Miracle on the Ice at the Olympics at Lake Placed was such a shock...the US, with a bunch of amateurs, mostly college students with a few weeks practice together, bested the Soviets.

[teddysmom]

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At this rate, by next season, nobody in D.C. will be able to feed themselves!

So they're doing a time jump to 2017?  Paige gets a job as an intern at the White House?  Elizabeth becomes press secretary? Now we're talking! 

[SlovakPrincess]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I still loved the show when Stan and a few others were the only idiots! At this rate, by next season, nobody in D.C. will be able to feed themselves!

Oh, Paige is already there.  I think the writers think Paige is coming into her own ... but I see a girl who shut off her brain and any natural skepticism, and now just accepts whatever Elizabeth tells her without question.

I hate that Elizabeth ended up being right about this, for some reason.  Maybe because I find Elizabeth insufferable when she's going on about how great "the cause" is, when she clearly knows by now it's got a lot of problems.  Also, 'cause they totally lied to Paige about that frickin' wheat.