Season 3 Discussion

[Bort]

Olivia suddenly becoming way more interesting led me to believe she'd be the ultimate Big Bad. I loved that the logical conclusion to Ethan's failure to create the timeless red forest (or whatever that was) was: " Well, shit, if you want something done right…" Who knew she had a sense of humor? Of course, as it turns out, SHE'S the true Witness, so joke is on her.

And to backtrack, I absolutely loved the sequence of Cole and Cassie in Victorian London with him teaching her petty thievery and her teaching him to dance. It was hilarious. 

[supposebly]

Episode 5 was fun!

Not that I need to be even more annoyed by Cassie but there was no good reason for her to tell Gale when and how he would die. That's just cruel and pointless. 

Well, that didn't end like I thought it should. And of course, the show now wants me to be afraid for Cole and Cassie because Jones and Deacon are coming after them and their creepy kid. I guess they tried to make the kid a bit more human after episode 6. Still kind hard to forget the mass murdering he did. Does it make me a bad person for rooting for Jones and Deacon? I just like them better.

Lately, TV shows seem to be throwing around the word FAMILY as the be all and end all of motivations and I'm kinda getting sick of it.

[Cthulhudrew]

Is it just me or does Hannah's writing seem to be all over the place? One second, she's Jones' conscience, the next she's holding a knife to Jennifer's(!) throat? The woman who willan-on be her adoptive mother?

[Cthulhudrew]

The season ended up much better than I first thought it would. I really enjoyed Ethan. I hope they continue Deacon's quest for relevance next season, as I felt it got dropped a bit after they introduced it back in episode 5 or 6. 

BTW, I forget now, but have they ever answered the question of who the original "patient zero" corpse they retrieved the plague from in season 1 was? Or is that a mystery that they still need to answer?

[surfer]

I liked how after Olivia's long con Athan's all "BTW, you know you're the witness right?" Good luck with that.

Athan going dark because of the loss of his one true love was a bit unoriginal. And he certainly went from bad guy to sacrificing himself for his parents pretty quickly. I guess Jennifer set him straight when she was nursing back to health. I did like that the mausoleum ended up belonging to Eliza. And that she was wearing a plague mask during her first meeting with Athan. Those were nice touches.

The show does a really good job of breaking up the dreary darkness of a post-apocalyptic sci-fi drama with comedy bits. The dance lesson scene was great and anytime Jennifer appears is a hoot. She's really one of the best characters on TV.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

{Skipping to the end of the thread just to reply, to avoid potential spoilers for the rest of the season, so apologies if rehash comments & whatnot...}

3.1 Mother;

•  Jennifer rocking out to '99 Red Balloons' in her head as the Germans executed the French military men in the trench = absolute gold.  "I like her!" - quit stealing words out of my mouth, German murderer dude.
•  Cassie trying to commit suicide to prevent The Witness/Aot12M/etc was noble (sorta), but did she really think the 12M would really let it happen?  Why let you get pregnant just to let you kill the baby??
•  And among the new list of "people on TV to hate", we welcome Magdalena.  Enjoy your stay, you red-headed psycho.
•  "Greetings, Asshole.  I'm Future Asshole!" 
•  "... except for that kick to the nutsack, shoulda known that one was comin'."

3.2 Guardians;

•   I digress.  Jennifer Goines = Absolute Gold.  Total one-woman show on the stage.
•  Wonder how they're going to solve the 'portable splinter machine' problem.  They really are unstoppable if they can always plan ahead and reset time to their advantage.  The whole "thanks for your service"='death by splinter overload' is a bit overkill, but gotta avoid those paradoxes by any means necessary, eh?
•  Nice short death cameo, adult!Sam.  Death by The Witness and your own father.  The daily double.
•  Was it just me, or was the hairstyle worn by Jennifer in the later half of the episode just really good?  She's an attractive woman to start with, but the hair and how it framed her face in those scenes made me go "wow!".
•  "I've been fatally wounded - even though its not played off as such - and I hear my baby crying, that I don't know is my baby for a couple episodes yet!  Must, touch, the, paradox box......."

3.3 Enemy;

•   Damn Jones.  Torture-by-Splinter Process.  Yikes.  Note to self: Don't piss off the person who runs the show with a time machine!
•  Part of me wants to believe that Olivia is playing the Timestream Team for her own gains (or The Witness'), but allowing yourself to suffer like that just to let them think they have the 'upper hand'?   Not sure that she's that much of a lunatic.
•  Deacon!  It's ok to be funny, but not always ok to be such a cut up.  Or be so funny that you yourself are the one that ends up in stitches.
•  Well, we got the backstory as to why Deacon is (was?) such a super hardass bastard.  Dear old Daddy.
•  Powder inside of a light bar + piss + a spark = fire.  Who knew?!  Well, Deacon, obviously.
•  "James Cole, always creating the problems he sets out to prevent."  Damn lady, that's Arctic cold shade right there.

3.4 Brothers;

•  Adler's just mad because Jennifer had the balls to make the splinter chair into a bed before he did.
•  "Just when it's yeast expected." + "You guys got some guns in the oven." + "This plan certainly went a-rye."
•  "I'm not running faster, you're just getting slower."
•  Yeah, still not clear on Olivia's end-game.  One half believes her vendetta against The Witness & Ao12M, but other half thinks she's playing everyone there (including the audience, IE me).
•  I'm blanking on his name, but dude in Titan who helped Cassie & Deacon...... plant for other group or just a rogue 12M?  Something to keep an eye when watch rest of season.
•  Later Ramse.  Despite all the reasons not to, I liked you... until the end, that is.  We had another good ride, KA.  I'll keep an eye out for ya in the future out there in TV-dom.
•  Ah, finally.  C&C back together again.  I know it won't happen, but I'm craving a scene with Cole telling Cassie "Look, I love you and you're hot AF, but seeing as how our first kid's (gonna) turn out, I'm'a just gonna keep it in my pants for the time being.  I'd say 'no hard feelings?' but I can't guarantee that, at least for myself;  like I said, you're hot AF."

Edited May 22, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[coppersin]

Okay, just started binge-watching so lumping things together by night instead of episode is tricky, but the basics:

Cole: Cole Needs A Hug may as well be the synopsis for every. single. episode. If he's dead at the end of the series I'm gonna be so pissed.

Cassie: kudos to you, for looking slim and trim and fitting into your skinny jeans right after giving birth

Deacon: poor guy gets ripped apart protecting Jennifer, gets put back together roughly, gets haunted by his dad for a year, and when he finally gets his reunion scenes? 
Cassie: Hi! Also, where's Cole?
Cole's face: Oh... It's you....

Jennifer: I get secondhand embarrassment really easily, so her theatre run was a bit much for me, but the meta bit about building an audience and advertising more was wonderful. 99 Red Balloons was also an awesome way to look inside her head, because it was so colorful and fun while the balloons full of glitter are bursting when real Jennifer is seeing headshots. Simultaneously funny and sad, like all the best Jennifer scenes are.

Olivia: I just love her. I love competent female villains. I will continue to love her until she succeeds in killing any of my favorite characters.

Witness: so when Jennifer referred to baby-in-a-box as a "weapon" was that just because they hadn't revealed the baby twist yet, or is there the slightest hope that the Witness is playing everyone and somehow the C&C baby and he are not the same person? I mean, the Witness is definitely playing everyone, I'm just curious what the big twist (probably in the season finale) will be.

[justmehere]

Well, I was groaning when it seemed like Athan would sacrifice the world because of one person. Third time/person thinking that way wasn't the charm. So I loved that they turned it around to where he really had nothing at all to do with the plague (hated that they made a child gas all those people).

The twist with Olivia was fantastic. She actually let herself down when she was disappointed in the Witness. But now, there will be no divided loyalties in eliminating her/the Witness. -Also, so long to the Pallid Man. Kind of anticlimactic at this point though.

At first, I felt sad to lose Athan/James Callis. He was superb. To be a new character coming in and commanding most of one episode is an accomplishment. But I believe he did say he'd see them again. With time travel, (and all his traveling), he could well turn up again. He would already know if he'd seen them other times. I hope so.

Ended up loving the binge and really couldn't stop watching. A fantastic season. And now a horrendously long time to wait for the final one.

[Triskan]

Okay, not reading anything yet cause I've just finished the first episode only, but damn, this season is shaping up to be beautiful ! Love this show ! 

Okay, now on to episode 2 ! 

And it was kinda hard to find the forum for the show, I had to go through Google to find it, couldnt do it searching on the site itself... 

[bethy]

I feel like I missed something when it comes to the Witness being named Athan. Cassie told Cole she wanted to name the baby that, and then Sebastian called him that, but how did the Guardians know that was his name? Did we see Cassie tell them what she wanted to name him? Why would they honor that desire of hers anyway?

[Thriftykins]

That was one heck of a twist in the 10th episode.  It makes Cassandra and Cole seem less villainous in hindsight.

I'm glad they've definitively said that the 4th season will be the last.  It sucks to wait a whole year to see how this all wraps up.  But at least they won't be spinning their wheels avoiding a conclusion.

That Ethan (or was it Athan?) couldn't save Eliza after trying hundreds of times does not bode well for the team's attempts to stop the plague.

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, Triskan said:

Okay, not reading anything yet cause I've just finished the first episode only, but damn, this season is shaping up to be beautiful ! Love this show ! 

Okay, now on to episode 2 ! 

And it was kinda hard to find the forum for the show, I had to go through Google to find it, couldnt do it searching on the site itself... 

Did you try looking at the full list of titles under the "#" symbol?  The title starts with a number, so that's the list above "A".  It's the 11th title down on the list, since it's listed numerically.  (would've been cool if it was the 12th title down...).

[Chaos Theory]

Wow that was a fun twist.

This show really is a snake eating its own tail but in the best way.  Jones going all militant and working with Olivia backfiring in some seriously major ways. 

Of course Olivia is the true Witness. 

I really liked the scenes where Athan went to see early versions of Cassie and Cole.  It made me think that Cassie has always been one step away from the edge.  

The best scenes though were Cole teaching Cassie petty thievery and Cassie teacher Cole to dance.  Didn't the last time Cassie take Cole to a swanky party he try to kill a dude?  

Edited May 27, 2017 by Chaos Theory
Editing

[Thriftykins]

It's starting to seem like the past is immutable.  Everything that appears to be happening as a result of time travelers is actually stuff that already happened.

[tv echo]

I originally thought that the son's name was Ethan because Cassie told Cole that's what she was going to name their son, and then Cole told his son that that was his name.  

However, the Syfy website's episode recaps list the son's name as Athan. For example:

http://www.syfy.com/12monkeys/episodes/season/3/episode/8/masks

Quote

The Witness (Athan) and his Teacher (Sebastian) hide out in 1879 and living without technol-ogy is exhausting them. Athan is having a lot of troubling visions, so Sebastian suggests that he sit down and draw a map of what he’s been seeing. And that, friends, is where we got "The Word of The Witness." Cassie and Cole have been looking for their son throughout time, and Hannah and Deacon are hot on their trail. On a train in 1945, the pair is able to escape, and Cole begs with his former friends to stop following them. But Jones, who believes that she can find them and take them down for their betrayal, is NOT giving up. They lied to her and they were unable to kill their son.

So now my head canon is that, after his father told him his name, the son misspelled it as a child. Or maybe Sebastian taught him to spell it that way.

ETA: According to Wikipedia, Athan "is a Greek male given name, which means 'eternal life' or 'immortal'"

Edited May 22, 2017 by tv echo

[Zoe]

2 hours ago, Thriftykins said:

That Ethan (or was it Athan?) 

Athan according to the CC's

[caws 727]

Glad they are finally going to bring in Cole's Mom, they hinted at it in S1 and then never talked of her again.  Loved this season!  Was great to watch it so quickly, b/c sometimes after a week, especially with a show like this and all the twists and turns, you can forget what is happening...I think the format really helped with that.  I mean the Deacon centric episode alone could have turned off viewers if this was airing week to week (just my opinion).  I felt bad for Deacon, that he wanted to be more important, hopefully he will be. Loved that he figured out Olivia's game before splintering, he's one smart cookie. 

And was I the only one that screamed ITS GAIUS BALTAR!! when Athan first appeared?  LOVE me some James Callis.  He is such a great actor and was able to really make you like him in one episode.  His whole story is so tragic and sad, glad he redeemed himself in the end.  Sad that fixing the world and ending Olivia will mean he is never born (or will he?) - I still have hope there will be a way for Cassie and Cole with the world fixed.  Can't wait to see how they will sum this all up.

And shout out to Jennifer Goines, she is amazing and fun to watch and I'm so happy that what they have written for her is so compelling and integral to the story.  Can't wait to watch her figure out the symbols and what that all means in the end....

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Okay, I finally finished watching the first four episodes so I can tiptoe into the Night 1 thread (I have been a total spoilerphobe ever since Buffy).

As always, Jennifer is a delight. From the 99 Luftballoons video in her head to the plays she did of E.T., Alien, Charlie Chaplin, Jaws, and the 12 Monkeys, she was hilariously enthusiastic.

I also really loved that she spoke up when Cole and Jones finally showed up in Paris and just wanted more info. I get that they are trying to save the world and all, but she's right - she's not just a Primary full of information. She's a human being who was a prisoner of war and lived in Paris by herself for several years trying everything she could think of to signal to Jones about her location. Not only did they take much longer than she thought they would to find her, but they didn't even ask how she survived WWI. As soon as they showed up, they treated her like a human version of google, asking questions about Cassie and Ramse. How about saying hello first, guys? I think at this point, she has earned her spot on the team but they just take her for granted. I'm glad that Cole took what she said to heart and when the guardian people reset the timeline, his approach was totally different.

I know that not everyone at the facility has the exact same loyalties so I liked seeing that although Hannah and her sisters (hee!) are willing to stay at the facility, Hannah was reluctant to babysit Cole. I totally laughed when he stabbed her with the tracker and sent her back, but I also laughed when he came back and she punched him in the face.

I'm confused by some of the Titan stuff. Why was Ariana taken from another time to live on Titan? I know they can splinter Titan to any time and place, but why would they need to kidnap a child to become one of their believers?

And what's up with the multiple versions of Magdalena incinerating herself every time she splinters back in time to give herself information about how to "fix" things? Do they have multiple versions of her on standby so she can send herself whenever necessary? If not, why can't she just go back to the timeline she came from?

The splinter suits and their "we'll just go back in time and change things" method makes them seem both unstoppable and also pretty stupid if they're still having this many problems.

I was pleasantly surprised at Cassie's strength of conviction when she decided that she'd rather commit suicide than let them have her son to mold into the Witness. It must have been so terrible for both her and Cole to discover that something borne out of their love for each other became something so horrible.

Cole meeting Future Asshole was both fun and intriguing. It was a great contrast to see the two of them side by side. Present Cole is beaten down, emotionally and physically exhausted. Future Cole is practically tap dancing in comparison. It will be interesting to see why, especially after seeing Cassie come out and Future Cole saying he had to give him hope.

Loved seeing Jones and Jennifer interact with Olivia. I was not surprised that Jones was willing to torture Olivia, but it was an unexpected twist when Cole echoed what Hannah said ("This isn't the way") only to reveal that he was going even darker with his version of torture. Unfortunately, I suspected from the time that Ramse brought her to the facility that it was all a set up. She seemed entirely too at ease in her new cage. Loved when Jennifer finally figured Olivia out and she was bouncing off the walls about the lies and the schemes and the map/timeline. I imagine that being Jennifer is similar to when you are trying to think of a particular word you know and it just eludes you - that frustrating feeling of trying to take information that you know is in your head and put it together so that it makes sense. Seeing her draw all those pictures and then berate herself for not figuring out what it meant gave us a glimpse of that.

And poor Cole. First he suspects his best friend of lying to him (which is confirmed), then he finds out that it's because his son is the Witness, and then he has to shoot Ramse, the person who protected him and saved him numerous times, who was like a brother to him. I loved that when Ramse tried that "sacrifice one person to save seven billion people" argument, Cole wasn't having any of it. I am not a big fan of the hypocritical kind of logic people like that use ("hey, I totally did this and it was WRONG so you shouldn't do it!"). You know that if Ramse had the opportunity to go back (heh, AGAIN) and change things, he would still do everything he could to save "MY BOY!!" including letting seven billion people die of the plague, so he can STFU.

Poor Deacon. He sacrificed himself to let Jennifer get away and then he tortured himself with visions of his asshole father so that he could save Cassie. And what does he get for his thanks? "Is Cole with you?" Damn, Cassie, that is COLD! But he took that (and seeing Cassie and Cole reunited) pretty well. He said last season that he knew his days would be numbered once Cole was back and he was right. I know that doesn't make it hurt any less, but he took it more stoically this time.

[Zoe]

1 hour ago, caws 727 said:

And was I the only one that screamed ITS GAIUS BALTAR!! when Athan first appeared?  LOVE me some James Callis.  

No, you were not :)  Though for me it was more, "Hey! It's that guy! You know, from BSG! Uh... <frantically brings up Wikipedia> Gaius!!"

[Doyounot]

Only saw the first two so far but olivia's jennifer impression was seriously amazing (deacons ramse impression too)!!! Popping their heads up scoobie doo style and the security guards made me die of laughter! Alot of comedy this season and i think it improves this show which was already one of my favorites before! Egg Jennifer smiling and laughing at her father locked up made me also smile! 

Time after time!!!!

Im glad Cole and Cassie had some moments to talk things through and also to bicker like real people (these are my steps James was awesome). Cassie having to tell some of her truth to doc brown while cole was listening was great and getting scenes of them buring the injections and having it be her idea to give him the watch was beautiful and satisfying that some things are already being answered/ensured.

[CrystalMoon]

I have mixed feelings about the binge format. On the one hand, it made it easier to watch eps like the Deacon-centric ep and the one that was all about Athan. On the other hand, my head is spinning and I feel like I have a 12 Monkeys hangover.

This is one of the few shows where I love all of the characters, especially now that Ramse is gone. He was the worst one of all for being sneaky and hypocritical. They all are to some extent--except for Jennifer who is a true innocent--but he was the worst, especially with his holier-than-thou attitude.

My favorite scene in this last night was Cole teaching Cassie to pick pockets while she taught him to dance. As funny as Jennifer is, this is the scene that cracked me up the most this season. Sometimes I think Jennifer is a little too over the top and I kind of roll my eyes.

Does anyone else think she is Cole's mother?

[Whimsy]

18 minutes ago, CrystalMoon said:

Does anyone else think she is Cole's mother?

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips:

S3.E1:

 

S3.E2:

 

[coppersin]

Binge-Watching Pro: getting through Athan's storyline in a few hours. Children of destiny tend to test my patience, so I don't think I would've loved this season as much if it was dragged out over 10 weeks.

Binge-Watching Con: we just got the new season and now it's already gone and now we have to wait another year to see how it ends and I am not a patient person, Syfy! (end rant.)

I'm kinda torn on how I feel about Athan. Yes, his storyline became predictable. But to be fair, a personal connection was bound to set him off eventually because he thought he was haunted by an inevitable destiny. I had hunches that he wasn't guaranteed to become anything, and I was certain when it was "the end" at the house and his first concern was for his parents to leave.

The writers could've had a lighter hand with the familial similarities: a man out of time falling in love with a woman of medicine, her father's timepiece, a death by embolism. But in the end, gunning down the bad guys, side by side with his parents - that was a great scene. I love their family, even though all of them are probably doomed.

I'll probably have something more substantial to contribute once the final episodes marinate, but for now.... I love this show. I just adore it. Next season is going to be awesome. And it's going to break my heart. And I can't wait.

[Bort]

The '80s episode was easily my favorite of all of them. So much levity and I love the continued well-usage of Olivia. As has been recounted many times upthread, her Jennifer impersonation was priceless. The exact opposite of all her monotone monologues of episodes past. Her getting electrocuted by the fence was the cherry on the cake. Also hilarious was Deacon's glee when Jennifer launched her plan in the first place.

Best line we didn't really get to hear? Jones to Jennifer: "Don't fuck up," capped by Cher's time-travel-and-era-appropriate song, If I Could Turn Back Time.

Also, did anyone notice that Cole was kind of wearing Marty McFly's 80's outfit? The white-checkered button-down shirt, to be specific.

[Bort]

6 hours ago, lora said:

I loved that Cassie didn't blink when Jones was stabbed, while Cole was shocked.

Cassie goes a lot darker than Cole does. Cole always seems to always have hope, while Cassie will let despair get the best of her. Ethan (Athan, whatever) doing the same when he kept failing to save Eliza is definitely a trait he inherited from his mother.

[bethy]

I'm rewatching season 1 (don't judge me), and I'd forgotten that in "The Keys" Cassie teaches Cole the hold-onto-your partner-and-sway dance. What a sweet callback, then, to have her teach Cole the waltz. 

[dirtydi]

21 hours ago, supposebly said:

Episode 5 was fun!

Not that I need to be even more annoyed by Cassie but there was no good reason for her to tell Gale when and how he would die. That's just cruel and pointless. 

Well, that didn't end like I thought it should. And of course, the show now wants me to be afraid for Cole and Cassie because Jones and Deacon are coming after them and their creepy kid. I guess they tried to make the kid a bit more human after episode 6. Still kind hard to forget the mass murdering he did. Does it make me a bad person for rooting for Jones and Deacon? I just like them better.

Lately, TV shows seem to be throwing around the word FAMILY as the be all and end all of motivations and I'm kinda getting sick of it.

I thought he didn't do the mass murdering after all.  He wasn't really the witness.

[fireangel]

9 hours ago, CrystalMoon said:

Does anyone else think she is Cole's mother?

Is anyone else a little squicked out by that?  I recall Jennifer tried to kiss Cole?  And some other inappropriate conversations if she actually is his mother...

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And what's up with the multiple versions of Magdalena incinerating herself every time she splinters back in time to give herself information about how to "fix" things? Do they have multiple versions of her on standby so she can send herself whenever necessary? If not, why can't she just go back to the timeline she came from?

The splinter suits and their "we'll just go back in time and change things" method makes them seem both unstoppable and also pretty stupid if they're still having this many problems.

Once she gives info about how to fix things, there is no timeline to go back to. Having told the Aot12M what they need to do to avoid disaster, it's probably not a good idea to have multiples of a person running around time.

It seems like they are fairly conservative in their use of the splinter suits -- only to avoid things that directly impact the safety of the Witness. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

3.5 Causality;

•  Just like Deacon, before Jennifer got going --  "here.. we.. go!" *hand motions and all*. 
• Seeing people through Jennifer's mind is a priceless treasure in this series.  And gotta say, 'Olivia' nailed the mannerisms and speech-patterns.  Despite all the drama and darkness that I love about this Show, EH's Jennifer Goines has to be the MVP.  You're going along, and the tone of the show is all grim & serious, but then all of a sudden I'm wanting to laugh my ass off.  Its like a big strong ray of sunshine bursting through a devastating storm.
•  The whole shenanigans with the security guys was funny, but started get pretty old towards the end of the whole thing.
•  Cole's deadpan "nice plan, but..." during the mental walkthrough of Jennifer's plan to "borrow" the 'Word of The Witness' and then his eye-roll after they entered the Emerson, and they were all 80s'd up?  I smiled at his consistency in being a stick in the mud.
•  Nice to see Leland again, and watching him have to play the fool.  And how frigging cute was 4-year old Jennifer?!  Best part was her laughing at Daddy when he tells her to "open the damn door, Jennifer!".  And love the foreshadowing of her trying to hide behind her dad when Olivia waved at her.

3.6 Nature;

•  "Hi Time.  Long time listener, first time caller."
•  Doctor Emmett Brown!  You got old.  Seriously though, what's a time-travel series without an appearance by Christopher Lloyd?
•  Not so Tall Man.  Even doing the whistle as a kid.  Creepy little f*er... that turns into a creepier not so little f*er.
•  Agent Gale!  Sucks it took so long to see you again - and here's to hoping there's a travel to see you again between this episode's mission date and when you get holey in Berlin, in '61.
•  "Looks like Santa got me Cole for Christmas after all."
•  Its weird, in both ways (depending on the individual), watching dead people be not so dead.
•  Tiny little production/editing nitpick;  but before the commercial break, C&C were on the left of the main aisle in the tent.  After the break (Cass inside/Cole outside), they were on the right side (Cole inside/Cass outside).

3.7 Nurture;

•  "God will not forgive us because we are going to murder a child, but it must be done.... yes, I am talking like I am pulling the trigger too, because I'm the important one since its my time machine and all."
•  Yeah it was a big secret and the truth had to come out at some point, but where's the trust?  Using the machine to spy on your 'heroes'??  Great misuse of power there, lady.
•  "You and I are going to stay locked in this room until the end of time, Dr Railley."  Well wtf good is that gonna do you, Jones, they already made &  popped the ApocalypseChild out!  And not remembering it was there nor thinking that Cassie wouldn't go for the splinter vest?!  Oi vey.
•  So, in the end, Cole couldn't do it.  Couldn't stare his child in the eye and put a bullet between them.
•  What is with the 'bad guys with a conscience' trope thing going on with some of these 12M?  First the guy who helped C&D in the first few eps and then this younger guy who was trying to do good by 'Ethan'... well, before Cole capped him, that is.
•  Despite the cold and snow, Magdalena had a bad case of the hot flashes.  "Mind yourself", indeed.
•  Even though Jones deserves some bad after earlier events, hope Hannah makes it.  (unless she's turned against C&C later, then she can go ahead and pass now)

Edited May 23, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[thuganomics85]

Finally got time to watch the first four episodes!  They kind of blended in a bit, but I did thing this actually was a pretty solid binge, since it ends on arc (Cole and Cassie reuniting, Ramse dying, etc.), and setting up more later on.

First things first, Faran Tahir!  Between him appearing on Once Upon A Time, Prison Break, and now this, I'm all for this new trend of him showing up on shows I watch!  He is always awesome to watch.  I find his character intriguing in that he is part of the 12 Monkeys, but is helping Cassie (and Deacon) for some reason, so I wonder what the story is there.  That said, I suspect it will only be a matter of time for The Pallid Man figures out his game, and it won't be pretty.

Jennifer Goines continues to be the best.  The scenes in 1921 France where some of the best, especially her stage plays of future famous movies.  Emily Hampshire continues to be a revelation in this role and has made it her own.  I really can't see anyone else pulling it off like she has.

Damn, it's always harsh to remember that despite being one of the "good guys", Jones is capable of some dark shit.  She really is the scariest person on this show.

Olivia really is one of the classic antagonists, who seems to always be ten steps ahead and whose back-up plans have back-up plans.

Knew Cole was going to be onto Ramse's deceit, but I was still surprised that it ended with him killing him.  Not sure what to think, really. As much as I like Cassie, I can see the logic behind her dying if this means more can live.  At the same time, I remember last season and all the deaths Ramse was responsible for, just to save Sam.  But I guess this is what the show is showing: that despite their noble intentions, these characters will still throw away the greater good for their own.  Ramse did for Sam, Jones did for Hannah, and now Cole for Cassie.  That said, this being a time-traveling show, I'm sure this is not the last we'll see of Ramse.

Glad Deacon is still around.  Can't wait to see him interact with the rest of the cast.  I especially hope we get some more Jennifer/Deacon scenes, because those two were golden last season.

Dr. Alder's exasperation with Jennifer was hilarious.  He's one of my favorite side characters.

Glad the show is back.  Not sure when I'll get around to the next ones, but I'm glad they're available On Demand since watching them live over the weekend was not going to work out. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

39 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

As much as I like Cassie, I can see the logic behind her dying if this means more can live.  At the same time, I remember last season and all the deaths Ramse was responsible for, just to save Sam.  But I guess this is what the show is showing: that despite their noble intentions, these characters will still throw away the greater good for their own.  Ramse did for Sam, Jones did for Hannah, and now Cole for Cassie.  

The practical side of me was wondering why they don't just send Ramse back to 1959 and have him tell Cole to use a damn condom. No murdering, no violence, no bloodshed, and no Witness!

Edited May 23, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The practical side of me was wondering why they don't just send Ramse back to 1959 and have him tell Cole to use a damn condom. No murdering, no violence, no bloodshed, and no Witness!

That, or try convincing Cassie to "take it like a man".

[UNOSEZ]

As much as I loved this season.. And I'm happy Olivia is back to being a bad.. As I could never totally trust her being on the right side of things... I do feel like the show let Cassie and Cole off the hook... And tried yo turn Jones into more of a Gray character than I felt she really was... Yes she wanted to go back and save her kid.. But in the context of stopping the witness... Ramse was gray and at times selfish but his son was a casualty of a world gone mad at the hands of the witness.. But until the last episode.. Cassie and Cole turned their backs on everyone for a man who it turns out was ready to destroy the world... Just because he couldn't doesn't change anything...He killed ramse.. She shot deacon... They betrayed Jones.. She pointed a Gun at jones' daughter and all of that was to protect someone who had told them he was going to destroy the world... Now season 4 will come and ppl will prob have to work together again.. But if I'm deacon Hanna Whitley or Jones I'm doing it with a stink face all season 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Scenes from S3.E5

Planning the heist:

 

Strange encounters:

Edited May 23, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Episode 5 deserves an A+ for the scene where they plan the heist, especially the shot of the four of them popping their heads up as Jennifer talked about tiptoeing through the warehouse Scooby Doo style. I love how Deacon just wanted to go on a mission and kick some ass. Jennifer's pop culture references always crack me up and this time was no different, from the heist movies she reeled off to the SNL "making copies" and the Clue reference.

As is often the case with people who were too young to remember much about a specific time/year, Jennifer miscalculated terribly with their 1989 outfits (and where in the hell did she get that stuff anyway?). Her Cyndi Lauper look and Deacon's Miami Vice look were about seven years too late. Cassie and Cole definitely fit in better. Cassie's blazer with a big pin was a little more 1987 than 1989 but it was more in tune with 1989 than Jennifer's ridiculous red outfit. Her blue dress at the auction was of the time, but it's something that would have been worn at night to a party, not in the middle of the day. But I blame that on Jennifer trying to be an over the top version of her mom (and maybe too many Dynasty reruns). Props for Cassie's big hair too. Bonus: "If I Could Turn Back Time" by Cher (which was released in 1989 so high five to the music person who chose this timely song). Hilarious!

This episode had some great moments. Loved when Deacon kept going on and on about Ramse at the bar which led to him and Cole almost beating the crap out of each other but as soon as Cassie showed up and asked what was going on, both of them were like little kids caught with their hands in the cookie jar. We weren't doing anything, I swear! Deacon's whispery imitation of Ramse was hilarious. I'm also glad that Deacon pointed out to Cole that Ramse was selfish for wanting to destroy the world just to save a kid who he barely knew.

I also loved the conversation that Jennifer and Cassie had in the car. They might not have sleepovers at the facility and braid each other's hair, but it's obvious that they care about each other and want to ease the other's pain if possible. I liked that Cassie suggested trying to keep Jennifer's mom from drowning her in a few years but that Jennifer declined saying that it was a defining moment in her life and that she didn't know who she would be without it.

Jennifer and Deacon with the security guards was funny. Between the cotillion business and then the guys later talking about pooping, I was just shaking my head.

But possibly my all time favorite moment in the episode was Deacon telling little 4 year old Jennifer that her dad is an asshole and to never forget that.

And now Jennifer is in on The Big Secret that the Witness is Cassie and Cole's kid! It was very sweet to see the looks the three of them exchanged when Jones was looking through the Word. On the other hand, DAMN IT, I wish they would have just told Jones the truth.

Edited May 23, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Bort]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Bonus: "If I Could Turn Back Time" by Cher (which was released in 1989 so high five to the music person who chose this timely song). Hilarious!

I liked that they used the song intro to underscore the scene of Jennifer getting into the machine. For that whole part, I was catching just enough of the tune to find it familiar, but not enough to place it, not until Cher actually started singing. It was an awesome scene, fantastic use of the song, for the exact year they were traveling to. You know they were just waiting for the perfect moment to use it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Totally worth waiting three years for it!

[Doyounot]

Thanks for everyone pointing out it was if i could turn back time and that it came out in 89 i donno why i thought it was time after time ...stupid since i really enjoyed the use of the song and then forget which song they used ha!

Just watched 7th episode man shit got serious quickly such a bloody episode and i was surprised when the "chosen" were all shot by deacon and his ya well im not was so casual. He had a plan to kill everyone and he executed (no pun) it. Him and jones teaming up together could be a serious problem for cole and cassie.

I liked cassies scenes with her mother and the fact that it wasnt just a selfish trip to see her again but it was to ask her for expertise about the mind of her son.

Cassies fight with his other mother was great and im glad she and cole are fighting together to change the witness. Again jennifer was great telling cole about how it seemed for sure she was gonna end the world but didnt because someone got to her changed her mind. Also jennifer and the witnesses little sidebar was good stuff.

I hope hanna makes it even though im rooting against her mother. And i feel dumb for thinking cassie killed deacon saving cole and her son. Of course he lived to share their secret and to be one member of the team (not incuding jones) that will have no problem treating them like the enemy. Like i said him and jones together are a scary team.

[coppersin]

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

As much as I loved this season.. And I'm happy Olivia is back to being a bad.. As I could never totally trust her being on the right side of things... I do feel like the show let Cassie and Cole off the hook... And tried yo turn Jones into more of a Gray character than I felt she really was... Yes she wanted to go back and save her kid.. But in the context of stopping the witness... Ramse was gray and at times selfish but his son was a casualty of a world gone mad at the hands of the witness.. But until the last episode.. Cassie and Cole turned their backs on everyone for a man who it turns out was ready to destroy the world... Just because he couldn't doesn't change anything...He killed ramse.. She shot deacon... They betrayed Jones.. She pointed a Gun at jones' daughter and all of that was to protect someone who had told them he was going to destroy the world... Now season 4 will come and ppl will prob have to work together again.. But if I'm deacon Hanna Whitley or Jones I'm doing it with a stink face all season 

To me, Cassie and Cole didn't run from the others for the man, they went rogue for the child. Little Athan hadn't been making his own choices, so it's fair that they didn't want to kill him and believed that their grown son wasn't pure evil either. They were seeing a person instead of a monster. If there was a chance of talking Adult Athan down from the ledge and saving the world without killing their son, why not? Had they not been able to get through to him, I actually think both of them were capable of killing him. Cassie is harder than she used to be; and when they were at the house and Athan sorta lunged at Cassie, Cole didn't hesitate to aim his gun at his own son. I do think that it would've been harder on Cole than Cassie, because she accepts that nurture may win out over nature while Cole could only see his own blame in this.

As for Jones going gray, I think that time has worn her down a little and growing closer to the people around her has complicated matters. Certainly Jones of season 1 wouldn't've let Cassie see her mother just because they "owed" her. But when it mattered, when she was aiming at Athan and Cassie was aiming at Hannah, Jones made what she thought was the necessary choice at her daughter's expense.

[bethy]

19 minutes ago, coppersin said:

I think that time has worn her down a little and growing closer to the people around her has complicated matters.

It was interesting to me that Jones said she knew what it was like to lose a child and now be betrayed by one. A lot of her anger over Cassie and Cole's actions were about being hurt that Cole had lied to her and not trusted her, I think. Yes, it was about wanting to save the world and thinking Athan needed to be destroyed to do that, but her love for Cole and that feeling of betrayal certainly had an impact on how she reacted. 

[Bort]

I agree that there's a big difference in what Ramse did vs what Cole and Cassie were doing. Ramse perpetuated the plague because his son wouldn't exist without it. Cole and Cassie's son was forcibly taken from them and raised to be a monster (and luckily removed from that situation by his parents' actions when he was a boy, so good on them for saving him from further brainwashing). They weren't trying to save him so he would be able to destroy the world/time, they still wanted to prevent that. I also believe that they'd have taken him out if they had to, they just wanted the chance to try an alternate solution first and that's why I give them a pass.

I also understood why they couldn't tell Jones because I've seen her extremes. She would've had them killed where they stood as soon as they told her -- or at the very least, thrown in the cage with Olivia. Yes, Jones felt betrayed by their silence, but she's a scary-ass woman and I don't blame them for being afraid of her.

[bethy]

I agree that Jones is scary and can certainly understand why they decided not to tell her. I don't believe that she would have had them killed. Lock them up, yes. Be totally, justifiably freaked out and enraged, yes. But I believe she loves Cole like a son and that she cares a lot about Cassie. So while I think there would have been a lot of yelling and chaos for a while, I think they would have eventually been able to work together. The uselessness/danger of secrets came up a few times, I think. 

One of the things I really like about this show is that I find pretty much all of the characters compelling and sympathetic in their own ways. 

[coppersin]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:24 PM, CrystalMoon said:

Does anyone else think she is Cole's mother?

So long as it isn't Olivia trying to ensure her own becoming, I'm happy. Anyone else. Literally any other person. Jennifer would be squicky, but at least she's a decent person. I don't remember what we learned about his mother back in season 1 so I'm not sure who is a possible candidate. Maybe some time travel twist so that we get Madeline Stowe again? I'm 80% certain it isn't Olivia, but I'm 100% certain I won't be able to handle poor Otter Eyes' face while trying to deal with the latest mindfuck that is his life.

[CrystalMoon]

I think Cole's dad said he loved Marion (?) but she didn't stick around, obviously. So not sure if she loved him back. To me, that cuts out Olivia. I don't see Cole's dad falling for someone like her. But on the other hand, could it be possible she'd want Cole born so he could create the witness who then forces her to become the real witness? How many generations back do the Monkeys try to influence fate? OR, maybe it's someone who knows Cole can save the world and makes sure to meet Cole's dad and sleep with him and have baby Cole. Thus ensuring the human race is okay. Ultimately.

My head is spinning.

[bethy]

I'm trying to decide how I feel about who is Cole's mother. 

Jennifer - at first I didn't want that because I kind of ship them, honestly. They have a sweet relationship. Yes, she's crazy, but crazy like a fox, and Cole is so kind and gentle with her. Most of the time. :) If she is his mother, I don't think she knows it, at least not as young Jennifer, because she has said things that indicate she's attracted to him. But she hasn't - I think - kissed him or anything. Right?* The more I think about it, though, the more I might be on board. It makes his sweetness with her and her desperation/longing to connect with him more meaningful.

Madeline Stowe's character - I like this. I've wondered about her, too.

Olivia - I hadn't considered her at all, and just NO.

* Whoops. She did kiss him (he didn't kiss her back at all), but right after she looked at him and said "no." Hmm.

Edited May 23, 2017 by bethy

[Chaos Theory]

On 5/22/2017 at 10:41 PM, fireangel said:

Is anyone else a little squicked out by that?  I recall Jennifer tried to kiss Cole?  And some other inappropriate conversations if she actually is his mother...

Nothing Star Wars hasn't done.  Plus if Jennifer is Cole's mother we can get a. "Luke I am your father" line.

The way this group travels in time it is possible that Jennifer gets stuck and falls in love only to get "rescued" just in time to abandon Young Cole 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Go ahead and laugh, I am thinking about doing it myself (at myself), but crrrazy theory! time:  Olivia will end up being Cole's mother, or will have a hand in deciding who is.  Think about it.  They made sure to hammer home how much this whole season (& show to date) is based on everything being a on 'closed time loop', or 'snake eating its own tail'.  Cole and Cassie were the parents to The (Supposed?) Witness, events happened and/or were manipulated to place them in the 'house of cedar and pine' to create said person.  I don't really have an idea or theory on the mechanics of it, but would it be so weird to think that Olivia (thinks? she) has to manipulate time/lives to make sure events in this big 'closed loop' occur and to ensure James Cole exists & is born?  I mean, he seems to be the bright focal point to the beginning of this whole story.  Him and the time machine [his first trip through time, in 2044 - even though it had already happened via Cassie's message] started the whole thing.

Love how the ending ensured everyone [Jones/C&C/Deacon/Hannah/Jennifer] will be back on the same page again.  No trying to kill each other... well, maybe Deacon will still lose his cool and try to maim someone.  He's a bit of a wildcard.

As much of a god-like super villain that Ethan/Athan was set up to be, his ending was actually quite sad.  Wonder if they'll use time to go back and get his help in the past.  Also wonder if we'll see Christopher's Lloyd character again next season.

Tall man gutted by his sister.  Bet he didn't foresee getting siblicided (yes, I made that up).  Also, something I caught, it seems that the flower thing (lavender & ?) was ingrained into Ethan's upbringing.

Not so crazy or wild theory, but sticking with my original guess that the M5-10 remains are Cole.  First referenced by his seeming painful (IE, paradoxical) reaction to it in 1.5 The Night Room, and then in 3.6 Nature, Jennifer mentioned that "there is something about the eyes" of the remains and she's always going on about Cole's eyes; pretty sure that scene about him calling her out for always calling him "otter eyes" (& her answer about knowing people through their eyes) was in this same episode. 

ETA - I skipped the comments and posts to post before reading the rest, but still stand by own comments made [re: Cole's mom].

Edited May 24, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Triskan]

Night Two Done ! 

I love it so far ! Emily Hampshire is a tremendous actress (they all are, but damn, she shines !), the story, although convulted sometimes, makes sense, the plot is thrilling, the twists and turns pay off, the direction is great (some great visuals) and an increidible atmosphere that plunges me straight back in the show with no trouble at all ! The ambiance is so unique there is no mistaking what show I'm watching and I love it !  

Episode 8 tonight ! 

ETA : oh, yeah, that scene with Jen and Athan : "but I believe someday you'll be the best of us all" (paraphrasing)... that send shivers down my spine ! A great moment between those two and opening a lot of interesting horizons ahead for Jennifer ! Cant wait to see that and hope to more encounters between the two Primaries ! 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Triskan