S05.E12: The World Council of Churches

[Umbelina]

Some of these later comments have really highlighted some of the problems with this entire season.  Aside from being never-ending bleak, the stories are so forced, not all, but certainly Elizabeth's and Philip's.  This season has been beyond slow, with plot points everywhere but almost no resolve to any of them.  Stan's girlfriend anyone?  The list is long.

1.  Any sane person WOULD transfer Pasha to a different school.
2. They keep implying this greater love Liz has for Phil, but they are telling, not showing.
3. There is no way in hell they would give Pastor Tim a head's up about leaving for the USSR, let alone ask him for advice.  Sorry, it takes way to much fan wanking to swallow that one.  It's ridiculous.
4. As Bannon pointed out, the simple lock they broke would not be how the USA secured a Top Secret plan to poison wheat, aside from the very obvious fact that the USA had lifted restrictions and was now selling wheat again.  Why would they risk a huge export crop by tainting it?  They would lose customers from all over the world, and a hell of a lot of money. Aside from that, we sold them actually processed grain wheat, not plants with bugs in them.
5. At least Philip would know that dragging the kids away from everything they know would be a disaster, especially given the issues he knows the Soviets have not (from Gabe, from William, from Pasha's dad, and from others.)
6. Frankly even Pasha's mom being able to continue to seduce the soon-to-be 2nd in command at the CIA station in Moscow?  That is such a huge position, to even be assigned to Moscow was only allowed for the best of the best, since it was such a difficult posting, watched all the time.  He's just going to spill his guts in pillow talk?  The hell?

Edited May 26, 2017 by Umbelina

[topanga]

15 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think Elizabeth tries to connect with Paige all the time and Paige knows she does. She just thinks that it's important that the kids be strong. And, I think, she's simply not the kind of person who finds it easy to understand people who aren't like her. Once she has something she sees as similar she can get them a bit, but that can take a while. With Paige especially I see Elizabeth as practically desperate to be loved by Paige and make sure Paige feels loved by her. With Henry I think she's just gently amused by him a lot of the time.

That makes sense. Except I'm not convinced that Elizabeth is desperate to be loved by Paige. I think she only tries to connect with Paige when she's doing damage control because Paige is on the verge of flipping out or doing something crazy that would bring unwanted attention to their family.

 

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Philip/Mischa's dad 

Will someone explain the names to me? 

Mischa is Philip's real name, correct? Is that his full name, or a nickname? And is the 'c' pronounced, or does it sound like "Misha"?

Philip's son is Misha. Is that short for something else? Is it a nickname for "Mischa"? In other words, is he named after his dad? 

[Umbelina]

It's short for Mikhail, father and son share the same name.  Misha is the nickname.

Meek-ha-ell is how it sounds.

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Didn't his brother say something about him being smart and why they chose him to be a spy? pls help my addled, conflating, brain.

Iirc, Philip's brother did say he was very smart, but he didn't connect it to his being chosen. Gabriel had earlier said that the Centre was always on the lookout for talented people. And Philip's son did refer to him as "some kind of hero"--but then, the whole reason he said "some kind of" was that he didn't actually know anything about him.  I do think his brother was showing he was proud of him in general. Just made me wish we knew something about their relationship. 

 I do think that in general Directorate-S people are absolutely seen as heroes in the USSR. It's like it's own special thing separate from the larger KGB. It would probably be very unusual for people to not think it was super cool to be a Directorate-S agent. But I don't know that Philip's family had the same kind of intense devotion to the whole thing as Elizabeth's mother. We know she "didn't blink" before telling Elizabeth she should leave home at 16. When she told that story to Philip he just stayed silent and didn't share his own story about leaving home.

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

He's just going to spill his guts in pillow talk?  The hell?

Also he sounds like a really bad choice to send to Moscow if he can't even take a Russian language class for a couple of months without having an affair with the Russian wife of a defector who's teaching it. And wouldn't he get suspicious if she suddenly undefected at the same time he got sent there? Even if he didn't see a set up a mile away he might be just irritated at the idea. He's probably thinking this is a short-term affair with a natural end date when he gets sent to Moscow. Now his mistress is coming along. Surprise!

1 minute ago, topanga said:

Mischa is Philip's real name, correct? Is that his full name, or a nickname? And is the 'c' pronounced, or does it sound like "Misha"?

 

Mischa seems to be the spelling they use on the show--apparently it's a common spelling in the US because many Russians who came to the US were Jewish and so it's a more Yiddish spelling or something? Someone suggested that somewhere. 

But it's pronounced Misha and it's a short form of Mikail, which is both Philip's real name and his son's name. Mischa in Russia's full name is Mikail Mikailovitch Semenov. Mischa (Misha) for short. Apparently, according to IMDB, he has Philip's last name as well. So Philip's real name is Mikail Something-ovitch Semenov.

[Umbelina]

That would mean Philip's dad's name was also Mikhail.  The patronymic "ovitch" tells us that.

I seriously doubt anyone outside of a relative few in the KGB in the USSR knows about directorate S.  ;)

Edited May 26, 2017 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

That would mean Philip's dad's name was also Mikhail.  The patronymic "ovitch" tells us that.

I meant that Philip's son's patronymic would be Mikailovitch since we know Philip's real name.  No clue what Philip's dad's name or patronymic is. But having a last name is quite a feat!

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I meant that Philip's son's patronymic would be Mikailovitch since we know Philip's real name.  No clue what Philip's dad's name or patronymic is. But having a last name is quite a feat!

Ooops, sorry, I misread that!

Have we ever heard Philip's patronymic? 

[Eulipian 5k]

Some of this season's storylines are pointing out the ridiculous, paranoid thinking of the Centre. There was no plot to poison Russian wheat so the  R&D farm was not secured. There was no plot to weaponize the Lassa(?) virus, that was the KGB's own plot. Those have already borne fruit in breaking Phil's faith ie. the virus revelation, (but I don't know why Claudia knew that or even told them). Remember, the Soviet Union is dying, bigly.

Also, given that Pastor T, knew about P&E for a while, and took a job to work with a KGB infiltrated org in South America, he's knee deep in espionage, to a paranoid FBI interrogator. They've honey trapped him without the honey.

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Have we ever heard Philip's patronymic? 

I don't think we ever have. Or Elizabeth's. 

[FormerMod-a1]

Please take the in-depth discussions of Philip, Elizabeth, and their relationship to their respective threads.

[RedHawk]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't get why no one has suggested a transfer for Pasha either. It's so obvious. I think we learned his mother did talk to a teacher/principal, but nothing happened. Not surprising, given the era. The issue of bullying wasn't taken all that seriously back then. 

There were lots of foreign students in the DC area at that time, so it is a bit off that they haven't thought of just transferring him to a school with a more diverse student body. He could go to a private school also.  Maybe we can say that for a while with Tuan as his friend Pasha was doing ok, and now right at the end of the school year he's having this trouble so it's sort of too late to transfer him until next fall.

[SunnyBeBe]

Deleted and moved to Elizabeth thread. I couldn't locate one on relationships.  

Also, there are bullies at all schools.  And, he may not want to leave Tuan, who he thinks is his friend. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[millennium]

I find I have zero to little empathy for the secondary characters in this show.  Pasha and his parents, Tuan, Sofia and Jacko, Philip's Russian son, Philip's Russian brother ...

They're all just filler.   I'd like to see more FBI, more Stan, more Jenningses ... even Oleg is more interesting than the second string. 

One episode after another of going through the motions.  This season seems interminable.

[SunnyBeBe]

I must have a penchant for boring, but, it hasn't bothered me that much.  Maybe, I'm just used to shows that move along without a lot of fanfare. 

[TaurusRose]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

He didn't actually suggest suicide. He suggested faking a suicide attempt so his parents would take him back to Russia. 

And that makes it better, how?  It's been pointed out by P/E and here how easily that could go south.

[Clanstarling]

10 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

  4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

He didn't actually suggest suicide. He suggested faking a suicide attempt so his parents would take him back to Russia. 

10 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

And that makes it better, how?  It's been pointed out by P/E and here how easily that could go south.

Better in that he's not actually suggesting Pasha kill himself. Just fake it. Tuan lacks the ability to think things through to all the ways things could go south - not to mention his inability to care. He's a cold assed kid.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Clanstarling

[TaurusRose]

9 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Better in that he's not actually suggesting Pasha kill himself. Just fake it. Tuan lacks the ability to think things through to all the ways things could go south - not to mention his inability to care. He's a cold assed kid.

We will have to agree to disagree. "Faking" it doesn't make it any better for reasons already pointed out. And it certainly doesn't make Tuon less repulsive to me.

[Clanstarling]

15 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

We will have to agree to disagree. "Faking" it doesn't make it any better for reasons already pointed out. And it certainly doesn't make Tuon less repulsive to me.

We can definitely agree that he's repulsive.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I must have a penchant for boring, but, it hasn't bothered me that much.  Maybe, I'm just used to shows that move along without a lot of fanfare. 

I'm not opposed to slow-burn dramas.   But this season doesn't want to get off the couch.   Remember the excitement of the Martha arc?   I can't recall when or if the show has ever come close to that again.

I blame Paige for everything.   That storyline has tanked the show.   There was a scene a couple weeks ago, where Paige is in her bedroom and Philip and Elizabeth knock on the door to have a heartfelt chat.    It was like bad Brady Bunch.   Then it occurred to me just how many scenes like that we've been subjected to in the past two seasons.   Enough already.   I know this is awful but this week when Paige threw the rope over the beam in the garage ... 

Anyway, I can't come up with a reason for tuning in next week let alone next season.   I know I will, if only out of habit or obstinacy because I've come this far, but those are lousy reasons to watch a show.

Edited May 26, 2017 by millennium

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, millennium said:

I'm not opposed to slow-burn dramas.   But this season doesn't want to get off the couch.   Remember the excitement of the Martha arc?   I can't recall when or if the show has ever come close to that again.

I blame Paige for everything.   That storyline has tanked the show.   There was a scene a couple weeks ago, where Paige is in her bedroom and Philip and Elizabeth knock on the door to have a heartfelt chat.    It was like bad Brady Bunch.   Then it occurred to me just how many scenes like that we've been subjected to in the past two seasons.   Enough already.   I know this is awful but this week when Paige threw the rope over the beam in the garage ... 

Anyway, I can't come up with a reason for tuning in next week let alone next season.   I know I will, if only out of habit or obstinacy because I've come this far, but those are lousy reasons to watch a show.

Okay. I agree with you on several points.  Poor writing, I do find annoying. And, I do agree that this entire Paige storyline was the downfall, imo.  I've never bought anything about it.  I think that I would have rather locked her in the garage, rather than what they did.  Brady Bunch scene? Yeah.  i buy that too.  I guess I have the hope that patience will pay off and things will make sense, eventually, even if it's in a nonclimatic manner. 

[Chaos Theory]

If anything Claudia is treating P&E the way Philip treated Martha.  They are useful to her so she gives them just as much as they need to do their job.  At that moment they needed her to be accepting of their idea to move back to Russia.  If she had done anything but nod her approval they would have dug in their heals.  This way she looks like a friend and she can dissuade them later. But at that moment they needed her to give them a tentative yes.  So she did. 

[RedHawk]

I can agree with the above comments about the Paige story line tanking this season although I still have enjoyed watching the other parts of it. I've disliked Paige's story and Pastor Tim just never gelled for me as a character. The actor is ok but his story has been poorly written, as some have said writers who have little religious background rarely get the tone right. But at least we had Martha and other interesting developments. For me, Philip going to EST has been so intriguing while the religious story was a total dud from when Paige first met the girl on the bus. 

Paige trying to look surprised at Pastor Tim's news that he was leaving, telling P&E she'd finally slept well, throwing the cross in the trash, working out with the punching bag  -- I didn't buy into her behavior in any of the scenes. Very little of the Paige-Pastor Tim story line has been compelling TV. I was all for Elizabeth's setup of Tim and Alice and wish it had happened because at least Paige's freakout and suspicion over their sudden deaths might have held my attention.

I so wish the writers had found another way to deal with most of the teenaged kids in the series, including Jared because I thought that whole story line sucked, too. And boring Matthew. Kimmy has been really interesting for me, because the character is written believably and the actress holds her own with Matthew Rhys. The actors who play Henry and Misha are strong, too, but they've underused a strong teen actor by giving Henry so little to do for 4.5 seasons. I actually hope for Henry scenes and start to glaze over as soon as Paige appears.

Yes, dumb Paige, of course you have to continue wearing your cross and hanging out with Tim, Alice, and Claire Louise (really? when they could have pulled the huge in-joke of naming her Martha?) for another two months. If she was trying to show something like rebellion or passive-aggression toward her parents or that she was trading in Jesus for Marx, it was not apparent to me.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

I blame Paige for everything.   That storyline has tanked the show.   There was a scene a couple weeks ago, where Paige is in her bedroom and Philip and Elizabeth knock on the door to have a heartfelt chat.    It was like bad Brady Bunch.   Then it occurred to me just how many scenes like that we've been subjected to in the past two seasons.   Enough already.  

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

...And, I do agree that this entire Paige storyline was the downfall, imo.  I've never bought anything about it.  I think that I would have rather locked her in the garage, rather than what they did.  

17 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I can agree with the above comments about the Paige story line tanking this season although

And I, too, agree with the comments about Paige and feel that the emphasis on her storyline has tanked the season. I've never bought anything about it. The actress may not be up to the task but the writing isn't doing her any favors. I find myself completely irritated by every aspect of it.

5 hours ago, topanga said:

That makes sense. Except I'm not convinced that Elizabeth is desperate to be loved by Paige. I think she only tries to connect with Paige when she's doing damage control because Paige is on the verge of flipping out or doing something crazy that would bring unwanted attention to their family.

And I have to agree with this as well. I don't see Elizabeth as "desperate" to be loved by Paige. She wants Paige to accept her ideology and see the world as she sees it.

46 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

If anything Claudia is treating P&E the way Philip treated Martha.  They are useful to her so she gives them just as much as they need to do their job.  At that moment they needed her to be accepting of their idea to move back to Russia.  If she had done anything but nod her approval they would have dug in their heals.  This way she looks like a friend and she can dissuade them later. But at that moment they needed her to give them a tentative yes.  So she did. 

Excellent observation. Claudia is way too clever and goal-focused. Two weeks ago she told them that their Topeka operation would have to continue for an extended period of time. Are we to believe that she suddenly says, "Sure. I'll just slot two other deep cover agents into this operation. Go home and have fun?"  I'm a bit surprised that P&E haven't considered that "going home" may not be that simple for them.

[Razzberry]

Looking through the Jenning's trash for an interesting scrap to chew on.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't trust Claudia, but, didn't she save Elizabeth's life in Season one, when she figured out something was awry and sent P to rescue E from a trap. (Stan shot her.)?   Anyway, I still don't trust her, but, I don't think she was blowing smoke up their butts about it being time to return home.   I do think that she will respond with whatever the Center says, whether it's yay, nay or maybe, but, down the road.   Recall that early on, The Jennings emergency plan was to run for Canada?  Is that still an option?  I haven't heard much about that in awhile. 

[ahpny]

Quote

I've been mulling last night's episode over in my head. I think the fact that Pasha is so unhappy that he was easily led to at least try to commit suicide, will shake P and E to the core with fear of how unhappy Henry will be in Russia. I can see the thought running thru their minds that this could be their family in Russia.

Nice parallel plot regarding the potentially terrible effect moving teens between the US and USSR can have. Pastor Tim of course stated this directly. Philip and Elizabeth have to connect the plight of Pasha to what might be in store for their own children in a potential reverse move, though that connection was never directly voiced. It doesn’t need to be. Some the few times we’ve seen Phillip or Elizabeth reject an option of hurting a mark had to do with projecting that mark onto their children. As here, and with Kimme, when Philip balks at sleeping with her because she’s too close to Paige’s age.

Quote

Tuan is a creep. Yeah, yeah...he has had a rough time of it...along with everyone else on this show. He gets no passes from me for instructing another teen on how to "fake" suicide. I'm surprised that Phillip didn't put him thru a wall.

All true, but at least his plan had intent and a component aimed toward Pasha surviving. “He’ll bleed out slowly.” Real charmer there. But Philip and Elizabeth have done far worse.

[Ellaria]

4 minutes ago, ahpny said:

All true, but at least his plan had intent and a component aimed toward Pasha surviving. “He’ll bleed out slowly.” Real charmer there. But Philip and Elizabeth have done far worse.

Its not an "either or" situation for me. P&E have done worse, yes. That doesn't make Tuan's actions better by comparison. All of these people can be incredibly ruthless and cold-hearted. It is sickening.

[Dowel Jones]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He's just going to spill his guts in pillow talk?  The hell?

CIA's Lebanon station chief William Buckley (not the author) began an affair with a Lebanese woman almost as soon as he arrived on station.  She was a spy for Hezbollah, and what he didn't give up to her, he gave up to them after he was kidnapped and tortured to death.  It seriously impacted the CIA's network in Lebanon.

[Macbeth]

On 5/25/2017 at 0:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

I know that it doesn't really connect to the main plot with P & E, but I'm totally invested in the story of Oleg and his family, and I find it to be the most interesting part of the season. And I don't think its just my massive crush on Oleg...or at least not just that.

Oleg's story is the most interesting part of the season for me too.  It was such a nice moment when he checked in on the woman he kept out of jail - while those higher-ups, who arethe real crooks, would never see jail.  I like his supervisor too.  As soon as the higher up was not going to see jail time - I know he took Oleg's advice and worked to get the woman out of jail.  Why should she pay when others are protected and won't.  He knows how it works as well.

For me Oleg's character has shown real growth over the past few seasons. 

I know I may be reaching, but all of that talk of corruption and pigs at the trough - while it is about the 1980s Soviet Union - it feels very relevant to 2010s US.  IMO

[Chaos Theory]

I am incredibly invested in Paige's storyline.  Sometimes more then P&E's and definitely more then Oleg's.  I have loved her this season and her continued ambivalence.  She is still young and doesn't see the big picture so of course she needs to be told to keep on her cross until Pastor Tim leaves but I have enjoyed her overall storyline.  Just like I have enjoyed the overall seaso. Even though it is the weakest of the series.  It is still far better then a lot of television.

i am looking forward to see what Paige does in the finale...,and next season.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[White Sheep]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:41 AM, Shriekingeel said:

Henry is Genrikh, but I don't think Paige has an equivalent. 

That what I found out also.

Pastor Tim and wife.  Not coming back from South America. Plane crash, random mugging, etc. I mean pastor Tim is smart enough to know and know Paige well enough and been to the 3 world enough.  To know there no way. She or Henry would be able to deal with living in the USSR. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by White Sheep

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't trust Claudia, but, didn't she save Elizabeth's life in Season one, when she figured out something was awry and sent P to rescue E from a trap. (Stan shot her.)?   Anyway, I still don't trust her, but, I don't think she was blowing smoke up their butts about it being time to return home.   I do think that she will respond with whatever the Center says, whether it's yay, nay or maybe, but, down the road.   Recall that early on, The Jennings emergency plan was to run for Canada?  Is that still an option?  I haven't heard much about that in awhile. 

She didn't save it out of the goodness of her heart, of course, she was keeping her operative from getting captured. Claudia's hard to read, but I have my doubts about how easily they'd return home, based on their ongoing operations and everything else we've seen. Heck, Gabriel wasn't all that honest with them either. William's promised homecoming? They squeezed one last operation out of him, he returned home as  bunch of infected cells in a jar. But hey, they named the strain after him. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Clanstarling

[White Sheep]

On 5/25/2017 at 3:07 AM, Glade said:

I really fucking hate Taun, with all of his petty, hateful judgements of Pasha, a teenager who was dragged to a foreign country against his will and was having problems adjusting, which is perfectly reasonable but Taun's all like "people in Africa are starving, you should be ashamed!" Taun's sheer giddiness over having him bullied and now this suicide plan is revolting. I miss Hans and his lovely accent (I could just listen to him saying cute socialist things all day! He should go door to door!) and I was really pissed when the latin American spy was killed in earlier seasons (and Elizabeth let it happen!) but I really wouldn't mind seeing Taun offed.

Hans was a cool commie. With a great accent.  Not many those around. 

Taun a total psycho.  The war and the death of his whole family. Made him hate the west so much. He can't think rationally like P&E. You notice how E talked to him in the previews for next week?  All kind and caring. That her I am making you calm voice before I make you dead calm. 

 

I realize something as I watch this episode.   That guy from whatever government agency that is sitting watching the Russian defectors house from the car.  

What is he watching for?  A bunch of guys with bad fitting suits, thick shoes and forgein accents to come sneaking up to the house to take them back to the USSR?

4 minutes ago, White Sheep said:

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by White Sheep

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I seriously doubt anyone outside of a relative few in the KGB in the USSR knows about directorate S.  ;)

But they actually are on stamps. Philip wasn't joking about that. So if not specifically Directorate S, then at least being a foreign spy is totally known. The ones who were caught more recently were celebrities.

5 hours ago, taurusrose said:

And that makes it better, how?  It's been pointed out by P/E and here how easily that could go south.

Attempted suicide isn't actually killing himself so that's better. It's dead vs. not dead. That's a lot better. But I was mostly just being accurate. He's not trying to drive the kid to suicide, he's hoping he'll just convince his parents to go home. Since there's a risk that he'll accidentally kill himself and Tuan doesn't actually care it doesn't make Tuan any better, but the chances are better for Pasha if he's trying not to hurt himself too badly.

 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't trust Claudia, but, didn't she save Elizabeth's life in Season one, when she figured out something was awry and sent P to rescue E from a trap. (Stan shot her.)?   Anyway, I still don't trust her, but, I don't think she was blowing smoke up their butts about it being time to return home.   I do think that she will respond with whatever the Center says, whether it's yay, nay or maybe, but, down the road.   Recall that early on, The Jennings emergency plan was to run for Canada?  Is that still an option?  I haven't heard much about that in awhile. 

Claudia saw the signal when she was acting as lookout for Philip and the Colonel. She ran in to say there was an abort signal. Philip noted that there was definitely nobody there. Claudia realized "this isn't the trap" and Philip said "Elizabeth" and ran. So yeah, Claudia was necessary to saving Elizabeth but it was Philip who made the call to rush after her instead of running away according to the previous plan. Claudia did seem to genuinely care about keeping them safe. The plan wasn't to run to Canada, though. They'd go to Rezidentura in Canada, which would then send them to the USSR.

I don't think she's blowing smoke either. They'll probably try to keep them there as long as possible, of course, but that doesn't mean she's lying when she doesn't freak out about them saying they're thinking about it. It's not happening yet on either side.

[Erin9]

2 hours ago, ahpny said:

Nice parallel plot regarding the potentially terrible effect moving teens between the US and USSR can have. Pastor Tim of course stated this directly. Philip and Elizabeth have to connect the plight of Pasha to what might be in store for their own children in a potential reverse move, though that connection was never directly voiced. It doesn’t need to be. Some the few times we’ve seen Phillip or Elizabeth reject an option of hurting a mark had to do with projecting that mark onto their children. As here, and with Kimme, when Philip balks at sleeping with her because she’s too close to Paige’s age.

All true, but at least his plan had intent and a component aimed toward Pasha surviving. “He’ll bleed out slowly.” Real charmer there. But Philip and Elizabeth have done far worse.

This is worse to me. Worse than anything they've done. Partly because Tuon is using a miserable teen who has done nothing wrong. Partly because he so clearly doesn't understand how unpredictable humans can be, especially where death and near death experiences are concerned. Not to mention not getting that Pasha might actually try to kill himself for real. Or any other thing in this ill thought out plan that might just go wrong. The funny thing is Tuon actually thought he'd covered all his bases. Not even close.

It would be like Claudia assuming she'd get what she wanted from Elizabeth if Philip were out of the way. (Setting aside the fact I think E would be suspicious of Claudia/the centre anyway no matter how they tried to play it.) 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Erin9

[Eulipian 5k]

5 hours ago, White Sheep said:

 

Pastor Tim and wife.  Not coming back from South America. Plane crash, random mugging, etc.

 

They could get killed by an anti-communist death squad like the "contras".

[VCRTracking]

Tuan, WTF?!!

Agree with people saying the Oleg storyline is the most compelling part this season. Finding out what her mother did to survive the prison camp and then confiding with his father about his problems. I really hope he doesn't die.

Paige taking off her crucifix and throwing it in the trash, I was both shocked and amused.

I forgot Phillip had a brother, but glad Mischa found family.

Edited May 27, 2017 by VCRTracking

[SunnyBeBe]

Does Oleg's father have the clout to save his son from the REAL trouble he is in?  His dad doesn't know what Oleg really did.  If he knew, would his offer to save Oleg still be extended AND could he do it?  Their suspicions are just that, but, with those people, they don't really need proof, do they?  They just take you away, declare you committed treason and shoot you in the head.  They pretended to give Nina PROCESS, but, not really.  Would Oleg get the same or better?  And what would Oleg's father have to do if he wanted to make a deal for his son's life?  Maybe, he would have to compromise his principles, which he has avoided all these years.  

Edited May 27, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But they actually are on stamps. Philip wasn't joking about that. So if not specifically Directorate S, then at least being a foreign spy is totally known. The ones who were caught more recently were celebrities.

True, but if stamps in Russia are anything like they are in the US (which they may not be), people don't generally get put on stamps until long after they're dead - which is cold comfort (and my take on Philip's "joke").

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Hubby's prediction is that Oleg defects. At least that would make me happy by keeping him alive. LOVE him. 

[MaryPatShelby]

19 hours ago, millennium said:

I find I have zero to little empathy for the secondary characters in this show.  Pasha and his parents, Tuan, Sofia and Jacko, Philip's Russian son, Philip's Russian brother ...

They're all just filler.   I'd like to see more FBI, more Stan, more Jenningses ... even Oleg is more interesting than the second string. 

One episode after another of going through the motions.  This season seems interminable.

I would like to see more operations, too.  Not that I want to see people killed, necessarily (last week was tough), but I'd like to see more than moving the pieces around.  Remember the first episode, with "Tusk"?  Sigh.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 They pretended to give Nina PROCESS, but, not really.  Would Oleg get the same or better?  

I don't think they pretended, really. She was executed for things they knew she did, not just on suspicion, like they have with Oleg.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

True, but if stamps in Russia are anything like they are in the US (which they may not be), people don't generally get put on stamps until long after they're dead - which is cold comfort (and my take on Philip's "joke").

Oh, I agree. But the fact that they're on stamps means people get what they are. So it's likely that it'd be seen as impressive as a job.

[JFParnell]

1 hour ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Remember the first episode, with "Tusk"?  Sigh.

Sometimes I think I have watched this whole series hoping they would match the tone, pacing, etc. of the pilot. Close, sometimes, but .. yep, sigh.

Love to see that Sports Night isn't forgotten out there :)

[ThoughtAFool]

13 hours ago, Erin9 said:

This is worse to me. Worse than anything they've done. Partly because Tuon is using a miserable teen who has done nothing wrong. Partly because he so clearly doesn't understand how unpredictable humans can be, especially where death and near death experiences are concerned. Not to mention not getting that Pasha might actually try to kill himself for real. Or any other thing in this ill thought out plan that might just go wrong. The funny thing is Tuon actually thought he'd covered all his bases. Not even close.

Even a failed suicide attempt might cause Pasha to be institutionalized in the US, backfiring and making it harder to lure his mother back to the USSR.

[Clanstarling]

14 minutes ago, ThoughtAFool said:

Even a failed suicide attempt might cause Pasha to be institutionalized in the US, backfiring and making it harder to lure his mother back to the USSR.

good point.

[scrb]

What percentage of defectors ever went back to the USSR?

I'm thinking very low, as they were usually defecting for political and/or financial reasons (athletes who could earn a lot of money).

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, scrb said:

I'm thinking very low, as they were usually defecting for political and/or financial reasons (athletes who could earn a lot of money).

Once traveling there became easier people probably moved back and forth more often. I read a memoir of someone who moved to the US with her mother as a kid and now spends a lot of time in Russia. If people have family there, of course they'd want to see them. Whether they'd actually move back is another story, but they might if they had a reason to.

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, White Sheep said:

That guy from whatever government agency that is sitting watching the Russian defectors house from the car.  

What is he watching for?  A bunch of guys with bad fitting suits, thick shoes and forgein accents to come sneaking up to the house to take them back to the USSR?

Pretty much, yes. And also to make sure the family doesn't do anything that could get them into trouble.

[scrb]

Sure, after the Soviet Union fell.

But in the mid '80s?  Once you defect, if you have to go back, you don't know what to expect.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, scrb said:

But in the mid '80s?  Once you defect, if you have to go back, you don't know what to expect.

Absolutely. I was just speaking generally about it. At this time I can't imagine somebody going back. Particularly somebody like Alexei who escaped and went to work for the US government. I don't see how anybody would believe that could happen unless the USSR had some ulterior motive.