Season 3 Discussion

[Kohola3]

Quote

I know I'm the only one who hates Margaret but I can't help myself.

Actually I haven't seen anyone defending Margaret so I don't think you are alone at all. I abhor her.

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

That said, I don't have much of a problem with what Sidney and Amanda are doing. Amanda is separated from her husband with the intent to divorce him -- her marriage is over. In the modern day this would not be a problem. The (very real) difficulties they face are purely a function of the times they live in, and that makes me feel bad for them.

I'm not all that sympathetic to Sidney and Amanda because they were having an emotional affair before she married Guy. It annoys me that she suddenly finds Sidney a viable option when he's the same poor vicar he's always been, and that was a major reason she didn't marry him in the first place.

Everyone is a victim of the times to some degree, but bad judgement is bad judgement.

[mjc570]

Well, I like Margaret a lot, and I think she is a very good representation of how women were treated at that time.  They were not valued for their intellectual skills, and (very simplistically, of course) basically were esteemed only as mothers and homemakers.  Of course, the war changed that a bit, but it still was a period very different from our own.  Margaret has been shown to be smart and competent  - perhaps if she had been allowed to become a detective, she would not have had to present herself in the work environment purely as an attractive, sexualized person.  I know I'm not expressing myself well (please, forgive me!) but I think -either consciously or subconsciously - she recognizes that she has no power or agency in herself, but only through males like Geordie.   He - and the other men at the station - would never accept her as a valuable member able to contribute to their work.  I feel sorry for her, what a waste of human capital.  I'm pretty sure that all the men treat her as sexually available, so she probably figured it was useless or difficult to get them to change their perceptions and would therefore live up to them.  

I don't blame her AT ALL for the affair with Geordie - she's not married, is not an an adulterer.  Geordie should be able to reject her advances.  If he can't, then he's the one who is weak morally, and is the one doing harm to his marriage and to his family.  I do think this is a very realistic depiction, though - the boss sleeping with the clerical help is certainly so prevalent as to be cliche. 

Both Geordie and Sidney are realistic, flawed people.  The people I find worthy of admiration are Mrs. McQuire and Leonard.  I do keep in mind this is a tv show, so a certain amount of drama, problems, etc is necessary. 

[dubbel zout]

I feel sorry for Margaret in that her choices are limited, and I wasn't thrilled when she first slept with Geordie. But to continue the affair is gross. She's also being very reckless—that ostentatious cheering at cricket? Come on, Margaret. What exactly is she trying to get out of this? The reality of Geordie leaving Cathy for her isn't a pretty one, if she stops to think about it. Does she just want the thrill of sex with a married man?

You know Wilkinson (the colleague who saw Geordie and Margaret kissing) is going to blackmail Geordie with it, and I'd really hate it if Margaret was the one who paid, even if that's how those things usually go. She has got to start being smart.

Edited July 4, 2017 by dubbel zout

[magdalene]

You bet Geordie is not going to lose his job over the affair but Margaret may well lose hers.

[MJ Frog]

6 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Did you not see my culpability continuum?

 

6 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Margaret may owe the world at large a better decision, but she owes Cathy, specifically, nothing. 

I did see it, yes, and I appreciate what you were trying to say. It's that second quote where we disagree, as alluded to in my post. I think she does owe Cathy something, as a fellow human being. If we disagree on that, fine. To be clear, I do feel that Geordie is certainly the more culpable, and a giant ass for whom I have no sympathy. But I am uncomfortable with the idea that the single person in this scenario does not owe the wronged spouse anything. Owing the "world" a better decision seems too abstract a concept to me. Cathy is not an abstraction -- she's the wife of the man Margaret is fucking. I admit, however, that this may ultimately be an argument about semantics.

Edited July 4, 2017 by MJ Frog
for clarity.

[MJ Frog]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Everyone is a victim of the times to some degree, but bad judgement is bad judgement.

Fair enough. Amanda is a dum dum for not having married Sidney in the first place.

[tootsie]

Thank you, Leonard. I switched stations at the opening cricket match with Amanda doing her indiscreet cheering and Geordie acting adolescent. Just couldn't cope with the melding of Grantchester and Peyton Place so missed the poisoning part. Glad I tuned back in because I enjoyed watching the new bishop walk a theological tightrope, taking over from a "scoundrel" and trying to return proper ecclesiastical order without overtly bashing anyone with a stick. (Though I think he could bash a stick with the best of them, if needed) And then there was Leonard standing before Amanda, hands clasped but brow unfurrowed speaking "on behalf of the Church of England..." You go, guy!  Finally, a still, small voice of reason among all those raging hormones. Now everyone go back to your corner for a while so we can have at least one respectable mystery to solve before the season ends.

[BlackberryJam]

9 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

 

I did see it, yes, and I appreciate what you were trying to say. It's that second quote where we disagree, as alluded to in my post. I think she does owe Cathy something, as a fellow human being. If we disagree on that, fine. To be clear, I do feel that Geordie is certainly the more culpable, and a giant ass for whom I have no sympathy. But I am uncomfortable with the idea that the single person in this scenario does not owe the wronged spouse anything. Owing the "world" a better decision seems too abstract a concept to me. Cathy is not an abstraction -- she's the wife of the man Margaret is fucking. I admit, however, that this may ultimately be an argument about semantics.

I see what you're trying to say and I don't think we necessarily disagree. I am saying Margaret owes no duty to Cathy than she wouldn't owe any other woman ever. Margaret has made no promises to Cathy, she has broken no vow to Cathy.    So she owes Cathy, specifically, no duty. As anyone owes any other to be kind and respectful and not cause anyone pain, she owes that. It's a general duty that each of us owes the other. But Margaret cannot have betrayed Cathy because she made no oath, promise or vow TO Cathy. That's my point. What Margaret is doing is not 'right' but she's not the one betraying Cathy. (I'd argue that Margaret is mostly damaging herself in this situation because she deserves better than an asshat like Geordie and no matter how she pushes him to become primary, she will always be behind Cathy and his children.)

Geordie made a specific oath and promise to Cathy, which he is betraying. Which makes him a dirtbag. Geordie is hurting both women, Cathy, obviously, but also Margaret in that he is never going to leave Cathy for her, which she clearly doesn't yet realize. Geordie is giving Margaret hope when he shouldn't.

However, I generally love Robson Greene, so I've been doing my level best not to want to scratch Geordie's eyes out and just focus on the mystery. 

As to the attorney and his meeting with Amanda, he was slapping her with some hard truths that any woman in her situation should already know. I mean, Amanda is not an idiot. Certainly she's aware of how divorce at that time worked. I mean, this is the post Wallis Simpson era. Also, the filming choice to focus on his mouth during the conversation was ...tiresome. He's a bad guy. He's mean to precious snowflake idiot Amanda. We get it. No need to show us his bottom teeth up close.

[Mumbles]

Nice sly in-joke by the show to have Peter Davison in his cricket outfit, given that cricket player was his persona when he was the fifth doctor on "Doctor Who."

To weigh in on the "do we hate Amanda" debate, count me as an Amanda hater. The previous seasons made it clear that she had feelings for Sidney but he wasn't posh enough for her to marry, and in fact she wanted it both ways...I believe the last episode of the first season had her cheerfully informing Sidney that they could continue to have their (platonic) fun together even after she got married, only to have Sidney inform her that that was not what was going to happen. Screw her. 

[dubbel zout]

13 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

The previous seasons made it clear that she had feelings for Sidney but he wasn't posh enough for her to marry, and in fact she wanted it both ways...I believe the last episode of the first season had her cheerfully informing Sidney that they could continue to have their (platonic) fun together even after she got married, only to have Sidney inform her that that was not what was going to happen. Screw her. 

This is why I ultimately have no sympathy for Amanda, especially the part in bold. Suddenly Sidney's good enough? Ugh.

He's not off the hook here, either, IMO. Both of them suck.

Is this what Daisy Coulam thinks unrequited love is? Because it's not. It's also not love that fights against social mores. Yes, it's kind of dumb that Sidney can't marry a divorcée. But those are the rules of his calling, and they weren't secret or anything.

Edited July 5, 2017 by dubbel zout

[beadgirl]

Quote

Well, I like Margaret a lot, and I think she is a very good representation of how women were treated at that time.  They were not valued for their intellectual skills, and (very simplistically, of course) basically were esteemed only as mothers and homemakers.  Of course, the war changed that a bit, but it still was a period very different from our own.  Margaret has been shown to be smart and competent  - perhaps if she had been allowed to become a detective, she would not have had to present herself in the work environment purely as an attractive, sexualized person.  I know I'm not expressing myself well (please, forgive me!) but I think -either consciously or subconsciously - she recognizes that she has no power or agency in herself, but only through males like Geordie.   He - and the other men at the station - would never accept her as a valuable member able to contribute to their work.  I feel sorry for her, what a waste of human capital.  I'm pretty sure that all the men treat her as sexually available, so she probably figured it was useless or difficult to get them to change their perceptions and would therefore live up to them.  

Yes, it was a different time and culture, but I think it is a mistake to overstate things.  The fact is, there were women during that time period who were lawyers, doctors, etc., who were respected by men (if not most men), who took control of their lives and achieved what they wanted. Not as many as now, of course, and it would have involved struggle and sacrifice and frustrations (still does), but I think it does a disservice to women, especially the trailblazers, to assume that all women before the present were downtrodden victims with no agency in their lives.  I think it also can unwittingly cause us to overlook the inequities that are still present in our zeal to congratulate ourselves as being so much more enlightened.  Finally, I think it does Margaret, herself, a disservice to act as if she is just some poor victim, rather than a fully-formed person capable of making moral and ethical choices and taking responsibility for them.

 

And, actually, I wish they hadn't written Margaret this way; one of my complaints lately about these period pieces is the way they tend to shove all the women into three roles -- victim of the patriarchy, oversexed slut, or sexless matron -- in the guise of tut-tutting past attitudes.  Margaret could have been a refreshing contrast to Amanda, an independent working woman with a healthy attitude towards sex and relationships.  For that matter, they could have avoided midlife crisis tropes with Geordie, too.  Shocking, I know, but some men back then really did love and respect their wives and did manage to keep it in their pants.  There are so many other ways they could have given him something to struggle with, but writers fall back on the same thing over and over.

[Kohola3]

How sad for the brother who not only had to tolerate the racial biases (and downright hatred) but bear the guilt of not being able to protect his little brother.  Sadly we seem to have slipped back into the 50's with this type of nonsense.

[dubbel zout]

I didn't mind Margaret getting flirty with Geordie, or even them sharing a kiss or five, but a full-fledged affair is really gross for both of them. The laziness of it as a plot offends me the most.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 11:39 AM, mjc570 said:

Well, I like Margaret a lot, and I think she is a very good representation of how women were treated at that time.  They were not valued for their intellectual skills, and (very simplistically, of course) basically were esteemed only as mothers and homemakers.  Of course, the war changed that a bit, but it still was a period very different from our own.  Margaret has been shown to be smart and competent  - perhaps if she had been allowed to become a detective, she would not have had to present herself in the work environment purely as an attractive, sexualized person.  I know I'm not expressing myself well (please, forgive me!) but I think -either consciously or subconsciously - she recognizes that she has no power or agency in herself, but only through males like Geordie.   He - and the other men at the station - would never accept her as a valuable member able to contribute to their work.  I feel sorry for her, what a waste of human capital.  I'm pretty sure that all the men treat her as sexually available, so she probably figured it was useless or difficult to get them to change their perceptions and would therefore live up to them.  

I don't blame her AT ALL for the affair with Geordie - she's not married, is not an an adulterer.  Geordie should be able to reject her advances.  If he can't, then he's the one who is weak morally, and is the one doing harm to his marriage and to his family.

 

I watch a lot of classic movies made in the 40's and 50's partly because they show so many smart women, in control of their lives.  Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy did a whole series of movies in the early 1950's where they both are competing professionals;  lawyers, reporters,  computer researchers.  If women weren't valued for their intellectual skills and only as homemakers I don't think these films would have been such huge hits. Joan Crawford's acclaimed performance as  "Mildred Pierce,"  in 1945 was a woman who kicked her husband out and started her own chain of restaurants. My own aunt, born 1899, worked as a bookkeeper and office manager all her life, choosing not to have children because she enjoyed her career.    The 1950's were a particularly affluent time and more women than usual  could afford to stay home while their children were young, but, even then, one in three worked outside the home. 

All those  working women were certainly not  considered sexually available. Margaret is only considered that way because she chooses to actually be that way.  We don't know that Margaret wants to be a detective but even if she does, "I don't get to be a detective!" is hardly an excuse for bad behavior  Margaret should be able to reject Geordie's advances just as he should be able to reject hers. 

I think they are both morally weak.  Adultery isn't the only thing in the world that is morally wrong. As the bishop told Sidney, people outside a marriage are charged not  to "put asunder," what God has joined together.  Contributing to the break-up of a marriage is not only considered a moral wrong, but some states still have "alienation of affection," on their books as legally wrong.

 

As for being "a waste of human capital,"  I just can't agree that a woman's worth is dependent on how impressive her job title is.  I actually think secretaries have as much worth as detectives, as do housewives like Cathy, and caregivers like Leonard's girlfriend.  I feel really hurt on behalf of women who devote their lives to caring for others when they are looked down on as just so much human waste.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I watch a lot of classic movies made in the 40's and 50's partly because they show so many smart women, in control of their lives.  Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy did a whole series of movies in the early 1950's where they both are competing professionals;  lawyers, reporters,  computer researchers.

Katharine Hepburn, in particular, had such a strong personality that making her the stereotypical mousy secretary would have been ridiculous. But the message of those movies was still the same: Women aren't complete without a man.

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

As for being "a waste of human capital,"  I just can't agree that a woman's worth is dependent on how impressive her job title is.  I actually think secretaries have as much worth as detectives, as do housewives like Cathy, and caregivers like Leonard's girlfriend.  I feel really hurt on behalf of women who devote their lives to caring for others when they are looked down on as just so much human waste.

Well said. We put way too much emphasis on titles even for males.  The man who picks up the trash has an equal worth to the head of a company.  We couldn't do without either of them.

[Driad]

A phrase that annoys me is that someone "is worth a billion dollars."  That person may have a billion dollars, but it doesn't mean he is worth it.

[mjc570]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Well said. We put way too much emphasis on titles even for males.  The man who picks up the trash has an equal worth to the head of a company.  We couldn't do without either of them.

With respect, I think that misses the point.  My original comment - about the waste of human capital - while clumsy and simplistic perhaps,  was meant to convey the idea that she is a representation of the common attitude at that time that a person cannot hold a job - for which they may be qualified and capable - purely because of gender.  Obviously, we've come a long way in recognizing and addressing sexism (and other -isms)  since the setting of this show.  In this case, I think it's pretty clear that Margaret would make a fine detective (she's shown as offering assistance beyond secretarial help, etc) , but that's impossible because she is female.  Sure, there were women who were doctors and lawyers etc. in the fifties - but they were unusual.  I was born in 1952 and attended a very good suburban school district, but was steered away from a career in math because  of various nonsensical reasons, none of which had to do with my capabilities.  I think Margaret's depiction on the show is quite realistic, and I have a lot of sympathy for her, even if she's not overtly frustrated (or even self-aware about it)  by bumping up against the "glass ceiling."

Sorry, but the statement about the trash picker having "equal worth" to the head of a company is ridiculous.  As humans, they are both worthy of respect, but the value of their services is totally different.  Anyone can pick up the trash; not everyone can run a company.  To get back to the show, the same is true of secretaries and detectives - their contributions and work experience are completely different, and valued - and compensated - totally differently.  People who want and are capable of being secretaries should be allowed to do so; the same is true for those who want to be detectives.   I don't know whether it was intentional on the part of the show to show how these social expectations (traditional roles etc) play out, but it as a female lawyer (l went to law school in the early 70s, and have extensive exposure to working in a male dominated profession), I guess I am sensitive to them.  Sorry for the rant!

[limecoke]

No sympathy for Amanda at all.  She created this mess in the first place as she was scared of daddy and blithely went into a marriage to a man she didn't love.  Sydney deserves better.

Margaret is not an innocent as she is a partner in adultery whether she's married or not.   Never liked her character anyway.  Wouldn't blame Cathy if she up and left but she's a 50's woman so that won't happen.

I do love Leonard and the young woman he's trying to love but that's not going to end well, is it?

[statsgirl]

It isn't that Sidney isn't post enough to marry, he wasn't rich enough.  Which I  think is worse on Amanda's part.

I think close-up on the lawyer's mouth was to emphasize to Amanda the seriousness of the situation.

Why was the Muslim guy drinking beer?  Alcohol is harom (forbidden).

 

On 2017-07-04 at 7:48 AM, BlackberryJam said:

Did you not see my culpability continuum? Margaret is no innocent, but the responsibility to Cathy lies with Geordie. Margaret may owe the world at large a better decision, but she owes Cathy, specifically, nothing.

For me it's not that she owes Cathy something so much as what people owe the spouse of the person they want to have an affair with.

Because Margaret is single and childless, she has more time to spend looking good.  More time to spend doing her hair and make up, to exercise so she looks good.  She has more time to read and come up with interesting conversation because she's not cooking, cleaning and taking care of three children.  If Margaret happens to gain weight, she'll have an easier time losing it than Cathy because she hasn't given birth to four children.

Not only is Margaret younger, half Geordie's age she is the greener grass.  She's new, exciting, a mystery to solve.  There's also the aphrodisiac of the knowledge that they shouldn't be doing this, the danger of getting caught.  Margaret doesn't put any demands on Geordie other than the thrill of the affair.  Cathy is the old worn slippers, no mystery or excitement except what Cathy and Geordie work to put into their marriage.  And unlike when he's with Margaret, when Geordie gets home Cathy has expectations of him, helping with the children, household responsibilities.  Things that aren't as fun as flirting with Margaret or going to the pub for amusement.

It's because the playing field is so uneven, because the person teasing the excitement of the affair has so many more advantages than the boring old spouse, that I think Margaret owes Cathy the human decency of not tempting her husband.

The greatest guilt lies with Geordie of course. 

On 2017-07-05 at 1:57 PM, Mumbles said:

Nice sly in-joke by the show to have Peter Davison in his cricket outfit, given that cricket player was his persona when he was the fifth doctor on "Doctor Who."

The real win of the episode!

And the archdeacon saying that he was the goal-keeper "I tired not to let anything get by me,"

Edited July 9, 2017 by statsgirl

[Kohola3]

Quote

Why was the Muslim guy drinking beer? 

He wasn't apparently Muslim or at least a practicing Muslim as he was planning on converting so he could marry his girlfriend.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think Margaret owes Cathy the human decency of not tempting her husband.

No one's tempting anyone. Margaret is not some siren whom Geordie is helpless to resist.

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Why was the Muslim guy drinking beer?  Alcohol is harom (forbidden).

Because as with every religion, there is a wide range of adherence to the tenets.

FYI, I don't mean either of my responses to sound harsh or bitchy. 

[MissLucas]

30 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Because as with every religion, there is a wide range of adherence to the tenets.

 

Let's also not forget that the main character - a man of the cloth - isn't particularly bothered by this whole 'not covet thy neighbor's wife'-stuff.

[BlackberryJam]

20 hours ago, statsgirl said:

For me it's not that she owes Cathy something so much as what people owe the spouse of the person they want to have an affair with.

Because Margaret is single and childless, she has more time to spend looking good.  More time to spend doing her hair and make up, to exercise so she looks good.  She has more time to read and come up with interesting conversation because she's not cooking, cleaning and taking care of three children.  If Margaret happens to gain weight, she'll have an easier time losing it than Cathy because she hasn't given birth to four children.

Not only is Margaret younger, half Geordie's age she is the greener grass.  She's new, exciting, a mystery to solve.  There's also the aphrodisiac of the knowledge that they shouldn't be doing this, the danger of getting caught.  Margaret doesn't put any demands on Geordie other than the thrill of the affair.  Cathy is the old worn slippers, no mystery or excitement except what Cathy and Geordie work to put into their marriage.  And unlike when he's with Margaret, when Geordie gets home Cathy has expectations of him, helping with the children, household responsibilities.  Things that aren't as fun as flirting with Margaret or going to the pub for amusement.

It's because the playing field is so uneven, because the person teasing the excitement of the affair has so many more advantages than the boring old spouse, that I think Margaret owes Cathy the human decency of not tempting her husband.

The greatest guilt lies with Geordie of course. 

The real win of the episode!

And the archdeacon saying that he was the goal-keeper "I tired not to let anything get by me,"

 

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

No one's tempting anyone. Margaret is not some siren whom Geordie is helpless to resist.

 

Women are not the gatekeepers of men's libidos. Single women have no responsibility to not look attractive because a married man might be tempted to have sex with them. That's ridiculous. 

Married women look at single men who have thick hair, broad shoulders and rock hard abs and no one blames that set of rock hard abs for being too tempting and creating an uneven playing field so that a married man can't compete for his own wife's affections.

In fact, the only one making this a competition between two women is GEORDIE. 

I cannot say this enough or in enough ways. Women should not be held accountable for a man's reaction to his own desires. A woman who looks attractive is not forcing a man to have sex with her.  Men control their own bodies and their own reactions. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by BlackberryJam
In my rage posting, a sentence didn't make sense.

[HoodlumSheep]

Uuuuuurrrggghhghggghh

I knew the sidney and amanda seperation wouldn't last more than an episode.

Tired of geordie's excuses. Calling yourself a weak man doesn't excuse you of your terribleness. I kind of want margaret to somehow get that srgt promotion because she's being wasted, but i am eagerly awaiting Phil to get his vengeance on geordie for treating him like crap.

I was wondering when sidney was going to confront leonard about his current love life. Except he went a terrible way about it...all due to amanda. This is why i find sidney x amanda such a toxic relationship. Sidney was beginning to start to self-destruct again (extra wallowing and becoming grouchy and miserable and mean). I just don't find that romantic or healthy????? Glad leonard called him out though. Every time things don't go his way with amanda, he reverts to terribleness and that's not good. Sidney x amanda is just so atrocious. That ending...blurgh!!! What makes it even ickier is that sidney took inspiration from what the criminal lady said.

And leonard, i know you feel trapped...but no, bby. What you're doing with that lady is not cool. she's kind and sweet and does not deserve to get her heart broken. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[JudyObscure]

What an episode!  I have to hand it to the writers, they're never going where I think they're going.

I thought Geordie was going to get killed several times.  All season I've expected the handsome, young detective to get so mad at Geordie's sneering put-downs that he tells Geordie's wife about the  affair.

I thought the widow was going to be the killer.   I never once guessed that a fifty year old woman had gone for an abortion.

I never would have thought any two women could be as stupid as the Paris-bound gals. Does a Paris vacation cost so much you have to commit a series of armed robberies? Also, if your boss keeps putting his hands on you, wouldn't "I quit!" make more sense than shooting him?

I thought Sidney's sermon meant he was going to stop pining for his missed chance with Amanda and go forward dating other women.

I thought Leonard was going to admit he just wasn't feeling it with his lady friend, but I'm glad I was wrong about that one.  I would like to see a happy, platonic marriage on TV.

So I was wrong about everything, except I predicted that Mrs. M would win Bingo. 

[sinycalone]

I absolutely agree about Sidney/Amanda....she brings out the worst in him.  Of course, he could actually try to stay away from her...but no.  I am now in the position of swinging all my sympathy to Amanda's husband.  He is willing to change and doing his best....meanwhile she's screwing the vicar.

Leonard is a good, caring man....but I don't think a platonic marriage would be good for Leonard and her.

If I was supposed to find the two female armed robbers sympathetic....that effort failed.

[TrininisaScorp]

Man, tonight's mystery was tedious.  It really to took a backseat to Grantchester 90210.  

I can't stand Sidney or Amanda when they are together.  Apart, I love Sidney and can tolerate Amanda (and that cutie pie baby).  I agree with many of you:  They are toxic.  That ending was just a hot mess.

Oh, Leonard.  While he shouldn't play with that girl's heart, I genuinely feel terrible for him.  He is not remotely allowed to be who he is, and that's awful.  What type of collateral damage will this be?  I did enjoy him telling Sidney off a bit; Sidney was just cruel. 

Geordie.  Mannnnn, get it together.  What is your end game?  The more you keep with this affair, the worse it is going to end.  I think blame belongs all around:  Geordie b/c he is married man with people that depend on him and give him a support system.  Margaret b/c she has to know this is a dead end for her; he isn't going to divorce Cathy for her.   This isn't a good look for either of them.  As many of you said, Geordie probably won't have any professional consequences, while Margaret is going to get completed hosed.  They keep dropping in that Margaret is clearly smart, good with figures and such, but what happens to her when this all comes out?  I'm also waiting for all the bitching Geordie is going at cute (but a little bit of a dick) Phil to come back around soon.  Sigh.  There is no "happy ending" here.

Edited July 10, 2017 by TrininisaScorp

[Mumbles]

Quote

Sorry, but the statement about the trash picker having "equal worth" to the head of a company is ridiculous.  As humans, they are both worthy of respect, but the value of their services is totally different.  Anyone can pick up the trash; not everyone can run a company.

Wow. I guess Amanda should stick with her husband then. Whatever he does, he's making a lot more money than Sidney, he has far higher "worth." 

[statsgirl]

Sidney and Amanda really are one step forward, two steps back.  My biggest problem is not that they make each other their worst selves, because they do, but that I am supposed to think this story is wildly romantic and root for those two star-crossed kids to get together and be happy.  Despair as Sidney and Amanda decide they shouldn't be together and cheer when they want each other so much they have sex on the stairs.  By the way, Sidney, that's technically known as "adultery".

And Geordie is even worse.  It's a sad thing when the two best males on the show are Leonard and Dickens.

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Because as with every religion, there is a wide range of adherence to the tenets.

And yet he was still supporting the marriage arranged by his parents for his brother rather than marrying the woman he's in love with.  They need to pick a point in the range and stick with it.

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Women are not the gatekeepers of men's libidos. Single women have no responsibility to not look attractive because a married man might be tempted to have sex with them. That's ridiculous.

Margaret is allowed to look as attractive as she wants.  But she shouldn't be encouraging Geordie to stray from his marriage vows.

I have a Muslim friend who believes it is wrong to drink alcohol whereas I belong to a religion that has a sacramental wine.  I should be able to drink alcohol when I want (and am legally allowed to) but I shouldn't be encouraging her to go against her vows and drink along with me.

Most of the fault is Geordie's but Margaret is not blameless.

[Kohola3]

7 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Sorry, but the statement about the trash picker having "equal worth" to the head of a company is ridiculous.  As humans, they are both worthy of respect, but the value of their services is totally different.  Anyone can pick up the trash; not everyone can run a company.

Gee, thanks.  While I don't make as much money as the company president, I am not stupid not and I take pride in my work.  I did not have the educational advantages of others due to my socioeconomic background (poor basic education), ethnicity, and color plus the need to provide for my widowed mother and siblings at an early age.  Could I have been a company president?  Maybe, with proper education.  Maybe not.  But apparently your worth is judged by income only so I will  always be lesser.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Calling yourself a weak man doesn't excuse you of your terribleness.

The only decent thing about Geordie calling himself weak was that he least he realizes how pathetic he is.

10 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

I was wondering when sidney was going to confront leonard about his current love life.

Sidney has a point, but I loved how Leonard called it: Sidney was miserable in his own life and wanted to take it out on someone else. But oh, Leonard! You can't marry the gay away. It's not a big deal if both parties know and are fine with it—there are all sorts of relationships—but his (now) fiancée is getting into something she knows nothing about.

10 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

All season I've expected the handsome, young detective to get so mad at Geordie's sneering put-downs that he tells Geordie's wife about the affair.

We still have a few episodes left in the season. Phil will do something with that information, either tell Cathy or blackmail Geordie so he (Phil) can be a sergeant. I don't think Phil is ready for that yet, since he still seems a bit green, not to mention impulsive.

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

sex on the stairs

All I could think there was "Ouch!" Sheesh, Sidney, at least literally take Amanda  to bed.

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They need to pick a point in the range and stick with it.

I disagree. People contradict themselves in their religious beliefs all the time. The arranged marriage was cultural more than religious, I think.

[tootsie]

Ick. Just ick. It's hard to credit, but I now find myself  longing for the sensible plot line of a tiger roaming the English countryside willy-nilly.  Endeavour in August. Yes, please.

[teddysmom]

On 7/4/2017 at 11:39 AM, mjc570 said:

Both Geordie and Sidney are realistic, flawed people.  The people I find worthy of admiration are Mrs. McQuire and Leonard.  I do keep in mind this is a tv show, so a certain amount of drama, problems, etc is necessary. 

 Mrs McGuire is a bit TOO judgmental for me, and the nonsense about bingo. Good lord, it's bingo, for charity not an orgy.   Leonard is no Jimmy McGill when it comes to bingo calling, but he gave it a good shot. 

Gordie needs to stay away from Margaret, they almost had a major problem with her thinking she was pregnant.  I hope Leonard and his little gf can make it work, they're sweet.  Sydney was being a real dick to him. Bad priest! 

When Sidney told Gordie "we had a pact!" I yelled at the tv  This isn't Seinfeld!  

The deal with Sidney & Amanda reminds me of Princess Margaret & Peter Townsend. The Church of England was awful. Sidney should be able to marry whoever he wants, just like Margaret should have. 

I knew it was the girl at the garage, I thought it was the young man, too, didn't see the daughter of the PO guy.   That was sad. 

Quote

We still have a few episodes left in the season. Phil will do something with that information, either tell Cathy or blackmail Geordie so he (Phil) can be a sergeant. I don't think Phil is ready for that yet, since he still seems a bit green, not to mention impulsive.

Yeah Phil is going to be pushed too far and do something to hurt Gordie. 

If only Sydney would fall for Margaret, that would clear up a lot of these problems. Amanda could go back to Guy, Gordie could stop cheating. 

Is it just me or does Sydney go to way too many police calls?   Guy's got a gun but let the amateur priest walk in and talk to him. 

[mac]

I'm still watching this show, but I think that it's time I stopped.

Geordie cheating on his wife with Margaret just turns my stomach.  He mumbles that Cathy just "cooks".  Geordie is late because he's screwing around but then sits down to a meal that Cathy cooked while she irons and takes care of his children.  What an idiot.  I had hoped the the realisation of a pregnancy with Margaret might jerk him back to reality, but he's too much of a cad.

Sydney and Amanda really annoy me too.  The scene this episode of them screwing on the steps was really lousy.

To me, there is nothing "romantic" about infidelity.  It's not "forbidden" love.  

Surely the writers could have come up with something better than this rubbish.

It's Leonard I feel for.  At that point in history he would have been ruined, fired, and jailed for living an authentic life.  Maybe he's bi-sexual.  I hope so.   He and his girlfriend deserve some happiness.

Dickens is my favourite character on the show.  Pretty dog with that lovely shiny coat.

Season 1 was good, but it's all been downhill from there.

[2727]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

 I hope Leonard and his little gf can make it work, they're sweet. Sydney was being a real dick to him. Bad priest! 

Sidney is always a dick to Leonard! He ignores him, puts him down, sighs in exasperation, then eventually, eventually ekes out a bit of Christian kindness and tries being helpful. (Which, getting spiritual or life guidance from Sidney is pretty rich, but that's a different gripe.)

He also acts quite dismissively towards Mrs. McGuire.

I don't expect or need showrunners to react based on critical and viewer feedback, but honestly. The response to Amanda and Sidney has been almost universally reviled and yet their relationship has become even more prominent. So much soap opera, so little crime solving.

Searching for something positive to say ... at least we're not being subject to Sidney's war flashbacks any more.

[teddysmom]

So why didn't Sydney & Amanda get married from the get go? He's allowed to be married. He was too into God to marry her before, but he's okay having sexy times NOW? 

I know the scenes of Sydney running was to indicate he had to do something to get rid of all his pent up frustration re Amanda, but when he chased after the girl in the woods I was yelling at the tv "Hey I'm really good at running! Weren't you watching". 

This show could use the MST3K treatment big time. 

And the stomping in the house to grab the whiskey, seriously? I think I'll go for a 5K this evening then come home and immediately get drunk. What could go wrong? 

Edited July 10, 2017 by teddysmom

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

So why didn't Sydney & Amanda get married from the get go?

Because he wasn't rich enough (and her father disapproved), as well as Amanda didn't think being a minister's wife was her thing.  Now suddenly she thinks it is. The job didn't change, lady.

[teddysmom]

Quote

sn't rich enough (and her father disapproved), as well as Amanda didn't think being a minister's wife was her thing.  Now suddenly she thinks it is. The job didn't change, lady.

That's right I forgot.  thx  God forbid she follow her heart and marry the guy she actually loved.  

[BlackberryJam]

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Margaret is allowed to look as attractive as she wants.  But she shouldn't be encouraging Geordie to stray from his marriage vows.

I have a Muslim friend who believes it is wrong to drink alcohol whereas I belong to a religion that has a sacramental wine.  I should be able to drink alcohol when I want (and am legally allowed to) but I shouldn't be encouraging her to go against her vows and drink along with me.

Most of the fault is Geordie's but Margaret is not blameless.

No one has ever said Margaret is blameless. Ever. The original poster had gone on about how Margaret looking good was putting Cathy on an uneven playing field. But the game is only played if Geordie wants it to be. 

The scene with Margaret in the bed asking Geordie to stay shows that she wants more. She wants this to turn into a real relationship and Geordie fed that by telling her she'd be a good mother. Geordie is playing her, giving her hope that he'll leave Cathy.  Your drinking analogy doesn't apply because Geordie is the one getting pleasure from the affair. Your friend wouldn't be getting the same pleasure and gratification from drinking. And your friend drinking wouldn't give you hope of a real, solid relationship.

There is no doubt that Margaret is stupid. She could have said no at any time. But she's not responsible for Geordie's decisions, only her own. She's responsible for the vows we all make to ourselves. She's not responsible for the vows Geordie made to Cathy. And I'm pretty certain that dozens of other men see Margaret looking all pretty every single day and manage not to have sex with her.  She does work in the police station, after all. Her prettiness is not so great that it forces Geordie into sex.

Count me in on the "Sidney is a jackass" team. Also, him being able to go to the police raid where guns were in play was idiotic. He's the freaking vicar. No. Just NO. Most amateur mystery series do suffer from the protagonist running across too many murders, but Geordie treating Sidney like he's a partner? No. Also, when does Sidney have any time for vicaring anyway? He's too busy questioning suspects (honestly?), running off his erections, being a jerk to Leonard and mooning after Amanda.

When did my hot ginger vicar become such a loathesome asshole?

I was also grossed out when Amanda initially pushed him away only to pull him back. Gross.

I was actually hoping Geordie was going to get killed by the personality-free bank robbers.

[dubbel zout]

Never mind. Dumb question.

Edited July 10, 2017 by dubbel zout

[teddysmom]

Quote

Count me in on the "Sidney is a jackass" team. Also, him being able to go to the police raid where guns were in play was idiotic. He's the freaking vicar. No. Just NO. Most amateur mystery series do suffer from the protagonist running across too many murders, but Geordie treating Sidney like he's a partner? No. Also, when does Sidney have any time for vicaring anyway? He's too busy questioning suspects (honestly?), running off his erections, being a jerk to Leonard and mooning after Amanda.

A coworker and I were laffing about how civilians solving crimes is really a big thing in the UK. I know we have it here in the US to an extent,  but Jeesh it's like one of their main sources of entertainment over there.  I can't recall Nancy Drew going on police raids, but it's been a while since I read those. And of course if you moved to Cabot Cove, you had about a 90% chance you'd wind up dead. Plus Jessica was based on Miss Marple, wasn't she? 

Quote

I was actually hoping Geordie was going to get killed by the personality-free bank robbers.

How dare you! She was dressed like a mime and they both had Eiffel Tower key rings!! They're the Paris & Nicole of 1950s England. 

[Driad]

This show has Tom Lehrer's song "My Home Town" running through my head.

[dubbel zout]

Tom Lehrer is a visionary genius.

[BlackberryJam]

3 hours ago, teddysmom said:

A coworker and I were laffing about how civilians solving crimes is really a big thing in the UK. I know we have it here in the US to an extent,  but Jeesh it's like one of their main sources of entertainment over there.  I can't recall Nancy Drew going on police raids, but it's been a while since I read those. And of course if you moved to Cabot Cove, you had about a 90% chance you'd wind up dead. Plus Jessica was based on Miss Marple, wasn't she? 

How dare you! She was dressed like a mime and they both had Eiffel Tower key rings!! They're the Paris & Nicole of 1950s England. 

She WAS dressed like a mime! I also thought they were supposed to be lesbians, but the one mentioned wanting to dance with handsome men as a life goal. I didn't even understand those two. What a terrible mystery.

[atlantaloves]

Oh I adore Tom Lehrer too! Is he still living? I think he is still with us.  I still have some of his very old recordings from my college days......his wonderful songs are still true today. Thank you for reminding me of this fabulous and ridiculous man! 

[Driad]

What a terrible mystery indeed.  Especially unfortunate because many of us are barely tolerating other aspects of the episodes.

[dubbel zout]

14 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Is he still living?

Per Wiki, he's a spry 89.

[atlantaloves]

That is wonderful, hey, only the good die young. He's a corker. Thanks.