Good Omens - General Discussion

[Morrigan2575]

31 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

 

I would prefer if they don't go there and concentrate more on who he is now. He said in one of the episodes that he's not the angel that Aziraphale knew anyway.

And Neil refuted the Lucifer theory:

https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/725675225535184896/hey-i-may-be-stupid-but-when-metatron-is

 

I agree with that, I really don't care who Crowley was before The Fall, I'm more interested in who is now...or really who he became as a Demon.

I really loved in S1/the Book, the Flashbacks of Aziraphale/Crowley during The Great Flood and even the Adam/Eve scene where Crowley (the evil Demon) had a greater moral compass then Heaven/God.

[pertho]

I felt this season was lacking the Pratchett silliness a bit, that's why I don't really want another season, because it might go down hill very quickly.

 

On the other hand the ending brioke my heart and I need if not a season, a happy conclusion because I want them both to be happy and I'm crying too much

[iMonrey]

I just finished a rewatch of Season 1. I definitely think Season 2 was better. It was a much more streamlined story that focused on Aziraphale and Crawley. I'm glad they eliminated the God narration because that really annoyed me. The whole witchfinder thing in Season 1 felt like a distraction too. 

I also did see the building blocks for what they were working up to WRT to Aziraphale and Crawley's relationship, although I maybe didn't pick up on it the first time around. Also, that "I forgive you" line was a callback to something that happened in Season 1, when Crawley first proposed that they run away together, which I did not remember.

I'd definitely be up for a third season, although I worry how long it would take to get one one the air. 

[Cattoy]

Guess I'll be the devil's - Crowley's? - advocate here. I  hated this season.

"Good Omens" is one of my favorite reads, and I can't recall how many copies I've bought to give to friends and family as presents. Sadly, it looks like Pratchett was the real genius behind this particular story. This second season just didn't do anything for me.

I didn't care for any of the shopkeepers. They were padding to a story that needed more focus and depth. The trying to force Nina and Maggie into a couple was annoying. We're supposed to believe that Heaven - which is really big on the whole free will thing - is okay with a miracle roofie? It didn't help that both characters were just unlikable. At least they called them out on it.

Neither angels nor demons are human. They don't have human emotions, let  alone genders or even corporeal bodies. That was specifically pointed out in the book, and it makes logical sense. If you live in Heaven or Hell, you have no need for all the gooey bits and embarrassing bodily functions. Which, as great as Liz Carr is, it made no sense that an angel would be disabled. She would have been far better cast as one of the shopkeepers. At least then those scenes would have had some really solid acting.

The romance between Gabriel and Beelzebub was just bizarre. Beelzebub was supposed to be a terrifying Prince(ss) of Hell, not some wimpy, goth wannabe giving away pet flies. The Gabriel amnesia bit was overplayed for me, but I didn't care for Hamm in Season 1 either.

I did love that Crowley kept his terrified houseplants after he got evicted. That was just such a great character insight into him in the book. Jane Austin's secret career was a blast, and I would much rather had some of that than the shopkeepers. The jukebox only playing Buddy Holly was a nice throwback to the book, where every cassette in the car eventually turns into Queen.

And where was Adam Young in all of this? He was such a major part of the story, he literally has god-like abilities, and he's not interested in stopping Heaven and Hell from trying another round?

This was just a placeholder for the third season, so I hope that is much better.

[Fosca]

I suspect people whose first exposure to this story was the book will view the series very differently from those who began with the series.  That's true of essentially every movie/series that starts as a movie; I've never known of one that made everyone happy.

I think Adam didn't show up this series simply because the Second Coming isn't happening yet, and is apparently still in the planning stage.  I doubt that anyone would consult him about Gabriel being missing, which is the big mystery of this series and as you said this series is essentially a bridge setting up Season 3.  I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in Season 3; that would make sense.

[Fosca]

Coming back to add: 

I do think S2's Beelzebub is VERY different from S1.  It's not just the different actor; it's a whole different take on the character.  I would NEVER expect S1 Beelzebub to fall for Gabriel (I know other people did), and that incarnation struck me as much more powerful and daunting.  The Eliza Doolittle vibes I was getting from the S2 version was really distracting and made it hard to take the character as seriously (and also made them not as interesting to me).  

[JustHereForFood]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:21 AM, Cattoy said:

Neither angels nor demons are human. They don't have human emotions, let  alone genders or even corporeal bodies. That was specifically pointed out in the book, and it makes logical sense. If you live in Heaven or Hell, you have no need for all the gooey bits and embarrassing bodily functions. Which, as great as Liz Carr is, it made no sense that an angel would be disabled. She would have been far better cast as one of the shopkeepers. At least then those scenes would have had some really solid acting.

I have seen comments from some disabled fans who were saying how happy it made them to see an angel in Heaven shown as disabled. Apparently (I wasn't aware of this), some religious people tend to talk about how all disabilities will be removed in Heaven and many disabled people are not very fond of that line of thinking if they consider their disabilities a part of what they are. I hope I am expressing this correctly, I'm just paraphrasing what I've read, I can look for some of those comments if needed. Anyway, it seems to mean a lot to some people (like many diverse castings tend to do, even if it's just supporting characters), so I will take that any day over "accuracy" in a fantasy show that includes stuff like immortal characters or sentient car.

[roctavia]

Really, really enjoyed the 2nd season and have now re-watched the first season again along with S2 for a 2nd time.   it's also pushed me down the rabbit hole of Neil Gaiman's tumblr and the questions he answers- which does explain a bit some of the things people haven't liked about this season. 

I haven't read the book (yet- just picked it up this week) so that I'm sure impacts my take on things as well... but this season seems like it wasn't meant to be an everyone story, it was a Crowley and Aziraphale story, which is whey we didn't see a lot of the characters from the first season. It's meant to be more of a bridge between seasons- to put the characters in the right place for Season 3 (per Neil Gaiman) and also just give us more Crowley and Aziraphale and their relationship. 

I would watch Michael Sheen and David Tennant goof around with each other all day, so more Aziraphale and Crowley was fine by me. The nuance of their relationship is fascinating... because it's not a normal human relationship- they aren't human, they both have their ideas of what love is- A kiss under an awning or an old fashioned dance... without realizing that what they have is also love. 

I don't buy into all of the grand conspiracy/complicated trickery theories floating out there about the end of the season... I think it's just showing us how messy relationships are along with Aziraphale's struggle regarding heaven/being loved by heaven and also loving humanity and things on earth (plus Crowley of course). 

Jon Hamm was great and really went for it with the amnesia plot... his relationship with Beezelbub did seem quick, but we didn't get the whole season of build up since he didn't remember. I can buy them both finding companionship that they couldn't get in their respective hell/heavens. 

The maggie and nina plot was silly at times, but I think it did what it was supposed to- it moved the story along, it forced Aziraphale and Crowley to think about love and what that means. It showed us again how much they try to blend in with humans, but also still don't really understand human relationships/emotions all that well. 

Anyway... I enjoyed it and really hope we get a S3 to pull everything together. 

[angora]

Finally sitting down to write some season 2 thoughts.

Even though I haven't read the book, it was interesting to watch this season knowing it wasn't really based on anything. Season 1 was definitely busier and could feel overstuffed at times, but I also think it felt tighter on the whole. Season 2 has a more defined focus, but I think it has some obvious padding in places, stretching the story to fill out this "bridge" between the original book of season 1 and Gaiman/Pratchett's planned sequel notes of season 3. (Renewal any day now, right???)

That said, I still had quite the grand old time. While I liked most of the story elements of season 1, the dynamic between Aziraphale and Crowley was far and away my favorite part, so I'm glad to focus so intently on them here. After the ending scene of season 1, I was surprised that they don't seem to have "progressed" much--I was like, "Wait, Crowley's living in his car?? For what?"--but I guess when you're millions of years old, a few years is hardly any time at all. In that case, I suppose it's understandable that their feelings are still largely unspoken until the finale.

But my god, David Tennant and Michael Sheen play these parts like they were born to do it! Both of them are so fantastically good. I love Aziraphale telling Maggie and Nina that, while he has a plan, he knows how much Crowley enjoys coming to his rescue, and Crowley confronting Gabriel over his attempted execution of Aziraphale is spectacular. Even when they're not physically in the same scene, their chemistry leaps off the screen--I adore the moment during their phone call in episode 3 when Aziraphale asks, "You haven't *really* been selling the books, have you?" and Crowley reassuringly  answers, "Not a one."

I'm happy that we get so many extended flashbacks this season. Seeing Crowley as an angel is both delightful and fascinating. One thing I find interesting about Tennant's performance is that Crowley often manages to be languid and tightly wound at the same time, and Angel Crowley has the same contradictory mix of intensity and chill, but they look completely different on him! It's so lovely that he just wanted to make stars. :sniff: The duo's interactions in the Job story are amazing, especially Aziraphrale's unwavering conviction that Crowley won't really hurt the children and Crowley's reaction to Aziraphale thinking he's "a fallen angel" now. That last scene between them is just *chef's kiss.* I like their "humans have a choice between good and evil" discussion in Edinburgh, and the contrast between Aziraphale's unbridled glee and Crowley's detached amusement in the magic shop is great.

The finale...I mean, obviously, I'm not happy about it, but I understand why it's happening, and it makes for a very compelling story. It totally tracks that Aziraphale believes he can change things in Heaven and (*very* misguidedly) thinks Crowley would want to be an angel again, just like it makes sense that Crowley is never going to go back to that life and feels betrayed that Aziraphale appears to be choosing Heaven over him. The parallel shots over the credits wrecked me in the best way--again, Sheen and Tennant are both *marvelous.*

As for the other stuff, Jon Hamm's performance as the amnesiac Gabriel cracks me up, and Muriel is just the cutest. I *love* when they pop up at the bookshop to "investigate" and Aziraphale gently encourages/coaches them throughout: "I'm a human police officer." "Yes, I thought you probably were." "Did you, really?" Ugh, adorable! And count me as one who liked seeing Liz Carr as an angel.

And now we wait...

 

[Mabinogia]

I just finished my nearly 6 hour marathon of season 2. Loved it as much as but in a different way than season 1. As a lover of the book I loved Season 1 for bringing the story to life. Season 2 I loved for focusing on Aziraphale and Crowley not just in present day London, but throughout history. Honestly, I often prefer the flashbacks to the current story. Mostly because Maggie and Nina's story was boring to me because they just didn't click for me, either separately or as a pair. 

That ending though... woof. That was rough and beautiful and unexpected but completely what I should have expected of these characters. My heart broke for both of them. Crowley finally puts himself out there, and you could see how hard that was for him, but he was finally ready to take that leap of faith and his faith was shattered. Aziraphale is finally handed the chance to possibly change the world for the better, to really make a difference as a leader but it costs him the demon he loves. 

If we don't get a season 3 I need that book. If we do get a season 3 I still want that book. 

My hopes for Season 3:

I hope that Crowley doesn't turn out to be some "famous" archangel. Just let him be Crowley. Not everyone has to be a big name. 

I hope Muriel is back. Loved her blend of ineptitude and enthusiasm.

I think I'd be fine if Gabriel and Beelzebub stay away. I actually quite liked and even got a little misty eyed at their pairing (I'm a sucker for that forbidden love stuff) but I'm fine without them.

I also hope Shax is back. I worship and adore Miranda Richardson and she was great as a bumbling demon with delusions of grandeur. 

Overall this was a great way to spend my day off. 

[Starchild]

I read a commentary somewhere (can't find it now) where the writer thought, in response to people who think Crowley's demonic status makes Aziraphale regard him as "less than" somehow, that Aziraphale knows perfectly well who Crowley is, that he doesn't want to change him, that he loves Crowley exactly as he is. Perhaps thinking that wouldn't be fundamentally altered were he to be restored to angelic status.

I've rewatched that final scene and it reminded me that, when Crowley objects to Aziraphale going back and uses his own refusal to rejoin Hell as an example, Aziraphale says "well of course you refused Hell, you're the bad guys."

You're the bad guys. You, Crowley, are a bad guy by association. I can fix that.

Sadly, I think that dialogue choice really does mean that Aziraphale thinks Crowley needs to be restored to be good enough.

[Fosca]

I don't think Aziraphale even knows he thinks like that.  We do, because we've seen how many times over the ages he's said "You're a demon, you're evil" or some variation thereof (and also because many of us are way too invested in close-watching this over and over <waves> hi.).  And I suspect every times he says it (since he doesn't seem to be joking when he does), it hits Crowley like a 2x4 upside the head.  

I teach psychology, and we have a lesson on implicit associations, associations that we learn so early and so well that we don't even know we make that association--and we may well NOT make it consciously and firmly believe we don't think like that, but on an unconscious level we do.  Aziraphale's "You're the bad guys!" was a classic example of him not thinking about what he was saying and it just popping out.  He consciously knows Crowley isn't evil, but on some level he just can't not make the demon==evil connection.  Which is also why I think he just can't imagine not wanting to be an angel again, because angel==good.

I also think it's part of why Crowley has so much trouble saying what Aziraphale means to him; as a former angel, he likely has that drummed into himself as well.  That he's not good enough for Aziraphale.  And Aziraphale leaving him behind for Heaven isn't going to help that one bit.

(Neil Gaiman is a freakin' genius)

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Fosca
Bright ideas just pop into my head

[Mabinogia]

36 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I teach psychology, and we have a lesson on implicit associations, associations that we learn so early and so well that we don't even know we make that association--and we may well NOT make it consciously and firmly believe we don't think like that, but on an unconscious level we do.

That is 100% Aziraphale. Despite having been on Earth for such a long time, he still seems very sheltered, unable to let go of what he's believed and known his whole life. Crowley, even when he was an angel, was more willing to question the "status quo" and it got him kicked out of Heaven. 

I don't think Aziraphale sees Crowley as bad. I think he sees him as "a good kid who fell in with a bad crowd" in a way. If only Crowley would come back to the angels he could finally be himself. If only he would come "home" everything would be okay. Aziraphale sees Heaven as home, as his safe place and he just can't understand how Crowley wouldn't see it that way. 

For as good and loving as he is, I think Aziraphale lacks empathy. Seeing things as good or bad takes away the ability to see WHY someone good would do something bad. Like with the grave robber. He wasn't able to get beyond "digging up corpses is bad" to really understand why she would be doing it, and the toll it probably takes on her. Crowley understood. Crowley was able to see that she wasn't doing it because she wanted to. It was the least harmful path she could take. She wasn't killing people, she wasn't stealing from the living and she was doing what she had to in a world that was very cruel to poor women with no families. 

Aziraphale, locked away in his little bookshop in his quaint little corner of London (the sets were stunning, I loved that whole old London even though it's present vibe), is very sheltered. 

It will be interesting to see, (if we hopefully get a 3rd season) if being the head archangel will open his eyes to how cruel the world can really be, or if it will just shelter him more from the horrors. 

 

[Fosca]

Aziraphale is definitely thinking completely in all-or-none terms, at least at times (which was brought up this series, in terms of shades of gray).  Stealing bodies is bad--unless it allows doctors to save people and gives poor people money, in which case gotta steal 'em all!   I mean, that's how he approached eating the ox: Meat is awful and disgusting . . . wow, that's tasty <eats an entire ox>.   

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

It will be interesting to see, (if we hopefully get a 3rd season) if being the head archangel will open his eyes to how cruel the world can really be, or if it will just shelter him more from the horrors. 

Thing is, he's already learned (or been in the position to learn) this lesson several times.

I shudder to think what would have to happen for him to finally open his eyes permanently.

But as blind as Aziraphale is to how he hurts Crowley, I can't help but love him. Sheen is so so good.

[JustHereForFood]

8 hours ago, Starchild said:

But as blind as Aziraphale is to how he hurts Crowley, I can't help but love him. Sheen is so so good.

There were both perfectly cast!

[andromeda331]

On 9/5/2023 at 6:30 PM, Mabinogia said:

That is 100% Aziraphale. Despite having been on Earth for such a long time, he still seems very sheltered, unable to let go of what he's believed and known his whole life. Crowley, even when he was an angel, was more willing to question the "status quo" and it got him kicked out of Heaven. 

I don't think Aziraphale sees Crowley as bad. I think he sees him as "a good kid who fell in with a bad crowd" in a way. If only Crowley would come back to the angels he could finally be himself. If only he would come "home" everything would be okay. Aziraphale sees Heaven as home, as his safe place and he just can't understand how Crowley wouldn't see it that way. 

For as good and loving as he is, I think Aziraphale lacks empathy. Seeing things as good or bad takes away the ability to see WHY someone good would do something bad. Like with the grave robber. He wasn't able to get beyond "digging up corpses is bad" to really understand why she would be doing it, and the toll it probably takes on her. Crowley understood. Crowley was able to see that she wasn't doing it because she wanted to. It was the least harmful path she could take. She wasn't killing people, she wasn't stealing from the living and she was doing what she had to in a world that was very cruel to poor women with no families. 

Aziraphale, locked away in his little bookshop in his quaint little corner of London (the sets were stunning, I loved that whole old London even though it's present vibe), is very sheltered. 

It will be interesting to see, (if we hopefully get a 3rd season) if being the head archangel will open his eyes to how cruel the world can really be, or if it will just shelter him more from the horrors. 

Yeah despite being on Earth the whole time he still has very little understanding of how things were. The gravedigger couldn't have been the first poor person he met. But he was still sprouting how much better it was to be poor because they had more opportunities. He should already know how crap that is. But despite that, despite what he's also seen with Job and his family and the Ark, where the God. God was the one who chose to drown everyone except Noah's family. God chose to enter a bet with Satan that let Satan detroy everything Job had including his children. While he was troubled by the drowning and went out of his way to save Job's children none of it changed how he sees or feels about Heaven and God.  Crowley was disturbed by the children drowning.  Ariaphale was so sure that God wouldn't do that to Job and his family that he showed up to stop Crowley and then went to the higher ups because he was sure God wouldn't do that. He was wrong. But that sparked nothing in him. All these centuries that still hasn't changed despite the horrible things he saw or even simple as people getting sick and dying. He sees it but he doesn't.

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

All these centuries that still hasn't changed despite the horrible things he saw or even simple as people getting sick and dying. He sees it but he doesn't.

I think Aziraphale represents a very specific type of person who will blindly continue to believe is something or someone (not just talking religion here, it can be a politician, a parent, educational institution, even an actor or musician you admire) no matter how much evidence there is against them. He is the poster boy for blind faith.

Something is going to have to happen to him directly, I think, to snap him out of it. Or perhaps he will be told to do something to Crowley, harm him somehow, and that will be the line Aziraphale won't cross. 

 

[JustHereForFood]

I have seen people comparing Aziraphale to someone who was raised in a cult, or other strict religious structure who even once they leave can't fully shake all of the garbage they are fed growing up. Even though he rationally knows that Crowley isn't really evil and that being with him isn't bad, it's probably hard to get rid of that voice in his head telling him that if that's what he was told all his life, there might be something to it. So it's probably too tempting (no pun intended) when he is presented with a solution how he can be with him and return to heaven at the same time. Kind of like when the family that rejected you suddenly says: Oh, we accept you now, just accept our conditions and all will be fine, everyone will be happy.

It's always fascinating when a story is so applicable to real life situations.

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

he is presented with a solution how he can be with him and return to heaven at the same time

We know how Heaven feels about the messy parts of human behaviour. So I wonder if that's part of the reason he felt anger after that kiss. The Metatron said he could bring his "friend" back to heaven, but in 12 seconds Crowley fundamentally changed their relationship from "friend" to something else, something he couldn't bring back to heaven now.

[pasdetrois]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:34 AM, Starchild said:

the acting Sheen did with his face through that scene was masterful.

Sheen's physical bits are the main reason I watch. I adore Tennant as well, but Aziraphale's sweet fussiness and delight in his surroundings are adorable and so compelling. Sheen inhabits the character every single moment he's on screen.

[tennisgurl]

I really had no idea what this season was going to be like now that we are going past the book, and while this season seemed like a bit of a transitional season between the first book and the book that Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett might have written if Terry hadn't been taken so soon, I still loved it. The first season was great in how it brought a book I love to life with such accuracy, and this season was great in how it expanded the story of Aziraphale, Crowley, and this entire weird world. 

The modern day stuff was all quite good but my favorite bits were the flashbacks to Crowley and Aziraphale throughout history. I really loved seeing their relationship grow and change throughout the centuries and exploring history through them, I would honestly have loved even more. The Job episode was probably my favorite, although the grave digger episode was also really interesting in how it explored Crowley and Aziraphale. All of this also led to the ending, which was a huge OUCH. 

I totally get why the season ended this way, its totally in character and I think that this will make for a really interesting season three, but it was really rough to see Crowley and Aziraphale more or less break up, even after Crowley finally put his feelings out there. I totally get why Aziraphale said yes though, he might be aware that a lot of what Heaven has done is messed up but he is still quite insecure and no matter what else he has done and learned there is still a part of him that desperately wants to be the good angel still, its just something he isn't ready to let go of yet its such a huge part of his existence. What happened with Crowley is so heartbreaking because he clearly does love him back but he still doesn't totally understand him. Crowley is fine with not being an angel anymore or even a demon, he just wants them to be them, but Aziraphale still so badly wants to in heaven again that he assumes that Crowley does as well. He is still stuck on "angels are good, when we become angels, we become good, and everything will be good" even as he plans on changing things, and he can just not get why Crowley doesn't want that. I don't know if Aziraphale even really realizes he thinks this, but it seems like he has always wanted to "redeem" Crowley and bring him back to "his side" again, that he isn't evil but he's making bad choices and he needs some help to find his way back, even if Crowley has always been upfront about not regretting being a demon anymore. Its certainly going to be interesting seeing where this goes. 

I think that the Metatron has been planning this for quite some time, he might have even been pulling the strings since even before what happened in the first book/season so that he can get his second coming. He clearly knew just what to say to Aziraphale to get him on board with taking over Heaven and looked quite smug about it by the end, he knew what he was doing and he probably knew how things would go when Aziraphale asked Crowley to join him in heaven. 

[Starchild]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

[Metatron] ... probably knew how things would go when Aziraphale asked Crowley to join him in heaven. 

No doubt about it. I still wonder what exactly is behind that nasty look he gave Crowley as he and Aziraphale left to have their chinwag. Curious they didn't have a reaction shot from Crowley.

[Fosca]

I do wonder what the relationship was like between the Metatron and pre-Demon Crowley; the Metatron seemed pretty certain that Crowley would know who he was, and it might also explain some of that Look.  Although I also think the Look may also be due to the Metatron blaming Crowley for Aziraphale not toeing the party line and letting Armageddon happen.

[angora]

4 hours ago, Fosca said:

I do wonder what the relationship was like between the Metatron and pre-Demon Crowley; the Metatron seemed pretty certain that Crowley would know who he was, and it might also explain some of that Look. 

I just finished watching the season again, and I got a kick out of the recurring bit of angels/demons getting stonewalled by Crowley after greeting him. The demon who sends the zombies to spy on him in the '40s is all huffy that Crowley doesn't remember being on the battlefield with him against Heaven, and then Saraqael does the same thing in the finale when Crowley comes to Heaven to investigate what happened to Gabriel, gets annoyed that he doesn't remember her from his days as an angel. I just love how casually Crowley blows them off, all, "Sorry, I meet a lot of people...."

I think I've figured out why I'm all right with the finale (provided we get a resolution!), despite being Decidedly Not All Right about the finale. Obviously, it's not what I want to see for these two, and the parting was painful (those parallel credit shots, my god!) But breaking couples up/yanking them apart just as they're about to get together is such a time-honored tradition of TV. You see it with straight OTPs all the time, and and far too often, they're pulled apart for entirely lame reasons, dumb misunderstandings or the classic "I didn't know I wanted them until they started dating someone else!" This break, however, *matters.* It hurts precisely because it isn't lame. It's so rooted in who both of them are, especially Aziraphale's misguided loyalty to Heaven and the perception of them as the "good guys," and I understand why it would tear them apart, even as both of them desperately want to be together. The story potential as they repair the damage and come back together is going to be spectacular. (IMO, the same thoughts apply to another queer-centered show whose fandom often overlaps with this one--I hate the breakup, but they weren't pulled apart for nothing, and I can't wait to watch the angst unfold before they get back together.)

I just hope that when we get season 3 ("when" not "if," right???), they're able to reconcile and get together *before* the finale. I don't just want "happy kiss, then roll credits." I want episodes of them being their "group of the two of us," both fully recognizing that that's what it is.

[Fosca]

I'm reminded of the other big "bridge" movie that leaps to mind, which is "The Empire Strikes Back".  I mean, at the end we have Han and Leia separated as well, and as I recall the wailing and gnashing of teeth was loud then too (although since it wasn't amplified by the Internet, it's hard to compare). 

However, the difference is that the third "Star Wars" movie was about as sure a thing as can be imagined, and we don't have that here.  I think that's also why people reacted to the ending poorly, because their split makes absolute sense from what we know about them.  That Aziraphale would choose the possibility of making Heaven better over leaving it the shitshow it is now (and think that Crowley would join him), and that Crowley would never change who he is or return to Heaven under any circumstances (even if it means losing Aziraphale, at least temporarily), is completely true to their characters, and still completely heartbreaking.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, angora said:

This break, however, *matters.* It hurts precisely because it isn't lame. It's so rooted in who both of them are, especially Aziraphale's misguided loyalty to Heaven and the perception of them as the "good guys," and I understand why it would tear them apart, even as both of them desperately want to be together.

I agree that this happened not because of some desperate plot contrivance to pull them apart, but because it is 100% in character for both of them to react exactly the way they did. That is what makes it bittersweet. That is what makes it work. And while it broke my heart to watch it, it was the good kind of heartbreak, the satisfying kind. I didn't have that moment of "wtf was he thinking?" I know why Aziraphale chose to go with Metatron. It is a dream come true for him, it is what he sees as his duty as an angel, it is what he feels he was put in this universe to do and without Heaven, he isn't sure who or what he is. 

It is the old, being handed everything you ever wanted only to realize that it costs you the thing you really want most. He'll figure it out. He has to, but I understand why he made that choice in that moment. 

1 hour ago, angora said:

I just hope that when we get season 3 ("when" not "if," right???), they're able to reconcile and get together *before* the finale. I don't just want "happy kiss, then roll credits." I want episodes of them being their "group of the two of us," both fully recognizing that that's what it is.

Yes, my main fear with them being separated is that the whole or at least most of season 3 will be them apart building up to the big swelling romantic moment and then.. THE END. I will throw shit if that happens. 

[Starchild]

20 hours ago, angora said:

Aziraphale's misguided loyalty to Heaven and the perception of them as the "good guys,"

I recently watched a fan theory video and right at the end they threw in this little point that I had completely missed.

While trying to explain to Aziraphale what's happening to Job, Gabriel literally says, "We're not the good guys." And yet, Aziraphale still wants to believe it.

But I think he gets confused between Heaven and God. I think he still believes that God is good, but since she hasn't spoken to any of them in 6000 years, he is subconsciously substituting Heaven instead. Even though they are demonstrably not good.

But what else does he have? Crowley? But Crowley's a demon, how could he fill the hole that God's absence has left?

Maybe if you think of God as Love, Aziraphale. Maybe then.

[JustHereForFood]

I came across this lovely article about the importance of the relationship between Crowley and Aziraphale, so I thought I would share it here (it's a bit long, but a good read).

Why the Confirmation of Crowley and Aziraphale Hits Different Than Other Romances

 

In other news, the amazing soundtrack for season 2 is out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn8gvki-g84&list=OLAK5uy_l0IecJ75yObvxGZV3LzMZuwisRbyFO47g

 

[AnimeMania]

Good Omens Season 3: Neil Gaiman Confirms He'll Be Writing Soon In Very Promising Update

Neil Gaiman is going to start writing Good Omens Season 3 even though the show hasn't been officially renewed for a 3rd Season.

[MissLucas]

 

 

[Starchild]

I randomly remembered today one of the saddest things I heard Crowley say. When they're sitting in the coffee shop after "Jim" shows up.

Crowley says to Aziraphale that Az only calls him when Az is bored, wants to brag about something, or is in trouble.

That's sad. Poor Crowley.

[JustHereForFood]

Another very long and very good essay:

Smited, Smote, Smitten: A Reading on Queer Longing in Good Omens

Lot of the points have already been mentioned here 😉. My favorite:

Quote

Aziraphale doesn’t understand what it means to Fall.

This isn’t his fault. No angel can know, until it happens.

But it is his fault to assume he understands the distinctions between the mechanisms and moralities of demons and angels, when between he and Crowley, he’s not the one who’s been both. 

Crowley can’t ever be an angel again. How can you ask him to return to a place that damned him and cast him out—much less to wield your love as bait? As contingent? 

Crowley loves him with patience, with care. He didn’t have to be an angel to protect Aziraphale, to stop time and save the world, to save his books from the Blitz. He didn’t have to be holy to walk into Heaven for Aziraphale and breathe fire at the Archangel Gabriel, and he didn’t have to be an angel to make him cocoa. He brats over Aziraphale’s silliness and snaps when the angel’s stubbornness butts against what Crowley knows are mutual values, a shared, fundamental need to save who they can, where they can. He does all this as a demon.

So, to hear I forgive you…

 

Quote

And yet he doesn’t trust Crowley at the moments that really, really matter. He thinks he knows better. He thinks he understands. He wants to save Crowley from Hell. He doesn’t understand he already did. He still doesn’t understand that for Crowley, the only place in the universe worse than Hell is the place that condemned him to it.

 

[roctavia]

On 9/30/2023 at 5:02 PM, Starchild said:

I randomly remembered today one of the saddest things I heard Crowley say. When they're sitting in the coffee shop after "Jim" shows up.

Crowley says to Aziraphale that Az only calls him when Az is bored, wants to brag about something, or is in trouble.

That's sad. Poor Crowley.

But also you could look at that as Aziraphale calls him when nothing is happening, or something good is happening or something bad is happening- that's everything, that's all the time. 

And does Crowley call Aziraphale?

[QuantumMechanic]

On 8/20/2023 at 2:35 PM, pertho said:

I felt this season was lacking the Pratchett silliness a bit, that's why I don't really want another season, because it might go down hill very quickly.

 

On the other hand the ending brioke my heart and I need if not a season, a happy conclusion because I want them both to be happy and I'm crying too much

Well, Gaiman has said S2 was only setup for the actual sequel material that he and Pratchett had discussed and which will be S3 if it happens (or a book or graphic novel if it doesn't).

On 8/25/2023 at 11:55 AM, roctavia said:

I would watch Michael Sheen and David Tennant goof around with each other all day

Then you simply must go and watch at least the first season of Staged, assuming it's still around somewhere.  (At least at one point in the US it was on Hulu).

[Fosca]

"Staged" is actually on YouTube, and I also recommend watching it.  

 

[Aulty]

Douglas McKinnon will not be involved in a potential series 3: https://tvline.com/news/good-omens-season-3-renewal-douglas-mackinnon-showrunner-leaving-1235064809/ shame, afaik he was central to the look and feel of the show.

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/24/2023 at 4:38 AM, Aulty said:

Douglas McKinnon will not be involved in a potential series 3: https://tvline.com/news/good-omens-season-3-renewal-douglas-mackinnon-showrunner-leaving-1235064809/ shame, afaik he was central to the look and feel of the show.

When it comes to the look and feel of the show, I'd only say this. We finished S2 last night, and when it was over, I realized something. I realized that when I'm watching this show, I believe in Heaven and Hell, and angels and demons. I just accept that vision of the cosmos. That's how persuasive the show's execution of its vision is.

[vavera4ka]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:59 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Crowley isn't Lucifer, we met Lucifer/the Devil in S1, Raphael is a possibility but; that would have made him an archangel and, you'd think Michael, Gabriel, or Uriel would have mentioned that...not to say that Gaimen couldn't retcon Crowley to be Raphael but, I'd rather he didn't and,  just let Crowley be a generic fallen angel.

Crowley can't be a generic angel, as he was able to open a high clearance document because they didn't change passwords since the nebula times. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, vavera4ka said:

Crowley can't be a generic angel, as he was able to open a high clearance document because they didn't change passwords since the nebula times. 

Good point. I love that Crowley knew they didn't change the passwords. 

[ProudMary]

I'd like to remind everyone in the forum that the Winter Primetimer Awards are open for voting and Good Omens has been nominated in many categories. Head over and vote in the various categories where Good Omens has been nominated. Voting is only open for four days.

Here's the link to the main voting page, where you can search the categories:

The Primetimers: Awards

[JustHereForFood]

28 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Head over and vote in the various categories where Good Omens has been nominated.

But be careful to avoid the "Long In The Tooth: Show That Still Airs Long Past Its Expiration Date" .😉

[BetterButter]

‘Good Omens’ Renewed for Third and Final Season at Amazon

[JustHereForFood]

Wahooo!

Seriously, I'm so happy I started crying. It was some tense couple of months. 

 

[ProudMary]

The final round of voting for the Primetimers is now open and my fellow Good Omens fans certainly did a great job voting in the first round as the show is now nominated in SEVENTEEN categories with multiple nominees in several!

Here's the link to the main voting page: 2023 Winter Primetimer Awards Final Voting Round

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, ProudMary said:

The final round of voting for the Primetimers is now open and my fellow Good Omens fans certainly did a great job voting in the first round as the show is now nominated in SEVENTEEN categories with multiple nominees in several!

Here's the link to the main voting page: 2023 Winter Primetimer Awards Final Voting Round

The hardest one was having to decide between Aziraphale and Crowley. How can I chose when I love them both equally.

[JustHereForFood]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The hardest one was having to decide between Aziraphale and Crowley. How can I chose when I love them both equally.

Exactly! It was weird having only Crowley in the Favorite lead character category, but at least I didn't have to decide which one to vote for. (I would have preferred to have them both as one option as they belong together and seriously, who voted for just one of them in the first round, lol.)

It was harder in the Favorite LGBT+ character category, since they were both there and none of the Heartstopper cast that I would have preferably voted for made it into second round. I chose Crowley as I assumed he has bigger chance, being the only one making it into the second round in the other category, and I was too self-conscious to ask here. (Yes, I am definitely overthinking these awards, why do you ask? 😆.)

[arachne]

There's been a lot of speculation as to what Crowley's original name was. I will go out on a limb and suggest "Nechesh." That's the Hebrew name of the serpent in the Garden of Eden story.

BTW: If you're at all familiar with Hebrew gematria, it's interesting to note that Nechesh has the same numeric value as another word, Moshiach (Messiah). 

Just my 11 cents. 😉

[JustHereForFood]

David Tennant is nominated for BAFTA for Good Omens! (Opening titles are also nominated.)

BAFTA Television 2024: The Nominations

[andromeda331]

18 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

David Tennant is nominated for BAFTA for Good Omens! (Opening titles are also nominated.)

BAFTA Television 2024: The Nominations

That's wonderful!