ElectricBoogaloo April 26, 2014 Share April 26, 2014 The line between business and personal gets blurred when Sherlock is forced to partner with his brother, Mycroft, to solve a life-or-death case. Link to comment
AimingforYoko May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Looks like Elementary is keeping Mycroft on a government paycheck. 1 Link to comment
Actionmage May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 (edited) Henri Lubati is approaching "Biggest French Badass"; I put Jean Reno in first. Mileage May Vary. I liked that his character felt an obligation(?) to be straight with Joan and thought Mycroft wasn't worthy of her friendship. Too bad Gil Grissom is probably still in some jungle. He and Sherlock going on about coffin flies would be amusing. Can we see Joan punch Mycroft on gp? He earned it. eta: remembered the actor's last name. Edited May 2, 2014 by Actionmage 1 Link to comment
frenchtoast May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 That was pretty drawn out for something that just about everybody knew. But, it did give us a chance to see the Holmes boys sort of working together. But Sherlock, way harsh about wishing he was dead. (Said like Cher from Clueless.) 1 Link to comment
Cress May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I'm still mad that Miss Hudson didn't show up in this episode. Maybe they're saving her for some later moment when she discovers the drugs in the book, but given that she just showed up to have one line and silently eat dinner last episode, I'm afraid she's never going to actually do anything good. Sherlock was emphasizing Mycroft's supposed laziness and stupidity so much that I did think it was over the top. Should have suspected that he was hiding something. Sherlock doesn't yet know that Joan is safe. I suspect he'll want to yell at Mycroft when he finds out what happened. I still have no idea why the last episode was called "Twisted Lip", but at least they explained "Paint it Black" in this episode. 1 Link to comment
Trey May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 but at least they explained "Paint it Black" in this episode. I must have missed the explanation. Other than Paint it Black being a Rolling Stones song and obviously the code phrase for the police to come in I don't know what it meant. Link to comment
Cress May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 That's what I meant. It was his code phrase to get MI6 or whoever to kill the bad guys and rush to the rescue. Whereas in the last episode, there was no person whatsoever with a "twisted lip" nor did the case figuratively parallel the original short story, so the title made no sense at all. 1 Link to comment
FormerMod-a1 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Did the NSA know who Mycroft was, know that he worked for MI-6? The way they said they knew about Diogenes and what goes on there, plus not helping Sherlock later made me wonder. I feel bad for Joan, watching that man she tried to save get shot right in front of her. And then having those others gunned down right in front of her. I know they were all bad guys, but on top of being kidnapped that had to be quite traumatic. And then Mycroft is all "we have to talk, I have a lot to tell you..." (or whatever he said). I'd kick him to the curb. I, personally, don't hate him or anything, but that's a lot to process all at once and a huge secret he had. 2 Link to comment
Trey May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Thanks, Cress. I would have liked to hear the song playing in that scene, just in the background. Apparently everyone but me knew or suspected that Mycroft was working for MI-6, I was just telling mr.Trey yesterday that Mycroft was smarter than Sherlock in the books so I was disappointed that they were showing him as rather stupid and crooked too. That should have tipped me off right there:) Anyhow, I was really happy that it turned out he was working for the government after all. 2 Link to comment
ScottCP May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I'm kicking myself for not seeing that coming, given that Mycroft's character has been the one that's deviated most from the source material. Link to comment
Helena Dax May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I always had doubts about Mycroft being a criminal and I'm glad he really works for the British Government. There was something really sad about Mycroft being that pathetic and dishonest. But I still wonder about his feelings for Joan. I mean, if you're in the middle of a dangerous situation, it doesn't seem the best moment to try to start a romantic relationship because you're putting that person at risk, too. I'm afraid Mycroft was actually trying to put distance between Joan and Sherlock. Sherlock will be pissed to learn about Mycroft, but I think it'll be also a relief for him. You know, like "my brother isn't a useless git; he's totally cool and smart!!". So, I guess M16 was going to run a secret office in NY via Mycroft and they thought their work would be easier without Sherlock there. Okay. But what was Mycroft's mission? To catch the French guys? He had been making business with them for months or even years. To get the list? De Soto took the list and left. I mean, maybe it was a fake list, but why Mycroft didn't say "paint in black" when the boss was still there? I'm confused. “My father is a Lovecraftian horror who uses his money to bludgeon his way to ever more foreseen profits” "And Credit Versoix is the perfect banking partner for a man accostumed to the aggresive practice of the business" LOL 1 Link to comment
Lyndy May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Hmm... I like the slightly darker turn this episode took. Also, I think it's very telling that there was nothing from the NYPD and I didn't miss them at all. And I love me some Aidan Quinn usually. I get that consulting with the NYPD is a necessary plot device but damn those characters are dead weight. Link to comment
catrox14 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I loved this episode. It's one of my favorites from the entire series My gods, Mycroft. Sherlock IS literally, actually going to kill you one day. I don't think it will matter to Sherlock that Mycroft is working for MI-6. IMO they did a great job hiding that twist. They had me hook, line and sinker. Total surprise there for me. Kudos to Lucy Liu for a wonderful directing debut. 4 Link to comment
Athena May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Hmm... I like the slightly darker turn this episode took. Also, I think it's very telling that there was nothing from the NYPD and I didn't miss them at all. And I love me some Aidan Quinn usually. I get that consulting with the NYPD is a necessary plot device but damn those characters are dead weight. I still love the NYPD crew. I liked Bell was concerned about Joan, but I like when the show diverged too. They did when Jamie reappeared as well. It's nice to have a nonprocedural change. I always had doubts about Mycroft being a criminal and I'm glad he really works for the British Government. There was something really sad about Mycroft being that pathetic and dishonest. But I still wonder about his feelings for Joan. I mean, if you're in the middle of a dangerous situation, it doesn't seem the best moment to try to start a romantic relationship because you're putting that person at risk, too. I'm afraid Mycroft was actually trying to put distance between Joan and Sherlock. Sherlock will be pissed to learn about Mycroft, but I think it'll be also a relief for him. You know, like "my brother isn't a useless git; he's totally cool and smart!!". So, I guess M16 was going to run a secret office in NY via Mycroft and they thought their work would be easier without Sherlock there. Okay. But what was Mycroft's mission? To catch the French guys? He had been making business with them for months or even years. To get the list? De Soto took the list and left. I mean, maybe it was a fake list, but why Mycroft didn't say "paint in black" when the boss was still there? I'm confused. “My father is a Lovecraftian horror who uses his money to bludgeon his way to ever more foreseen profits” "And Credit Versoix is the perfect banking partner for a man accostumed to the aggresive practice of the business" LOL I also liked the use of "sue generis" by the banker. Papa Holmes is a piece of work. How unique and aggressive can the man actually be? I am very much looking forward to Mycroft's chat. He's obviously on a secret mission so of course he can't reveal to his brother and Joan about it. They are still civilians. He was probably trying to trap the French guys in some way. Rhys looked great in the last scene. His whole presence shifted and he looked very tall next to our petite Joan. I really doubt Sherlock would ever call Mycroft cruel. Book!Sherlock kinda rolled his eyes at Book!Mycroft with respective to the government too. He is never going to forget the Joan kidnapping. Link to comment
Kromm May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 (edited) Up until this episode I kept saying "can someone remind me again why they call this character "Mycroft"? He's not even a tiny bit like Mycroft. I mean their Sherlock is slightly like Sherlock Holmes. Their Watson is microscopically like John Watson (but at least shares a career). But Mycroft? There's like... nothing. But then this episode, at least they finally slotted in that he works for the Government. I mean he HAD to, but they certainly waited on letting us know. Edited May 2, 2014 by Kromm Link to comment
emma675 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I'm an idiot because I truly thought Mycroft was that much of a lazy, entitled mess and I didn't see the Mi6 thing coming at all. I can't wait to see how Sherlock reacts to it given that he told Mycroft he wished the leukemia had rotted him to his bones. There were some great scenes in this episode (I loved Sherlock's massive tantrum when he learned of Joan's kidnapping and Mycroft's part in it and I loved Sherlock seated by the body on the kitchen island and Mycroft's disgust--I like to think Mycroft was horrified by the fact that the kitchen was being contaminated, not so much horror at the body). 1 Link to comment
Kromm May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 I'm an idiot because I truly thought Mycroft was that much of a lazy, entitled mess and I didn't see the Mi6 thing coming at all. My point in my previous post (badly made, admittedly) was that Mycroft doesn't make SENSE as a lazy, entitled mess. It's far beyond Watson being a Sober Companion in terms of reinvention. Really, he HAD to be a spook. Nothing else could explain him even being on the show and having that name. The thing is the other riff is that Mycroft traditionally also thinks he is (and actually maybe actually is) smarter than Sherlock. The difference between them is that Sherlock is motivated towards personal glory and adventure (which actually doesn't much fit this show's version), whereas Mycroft is officious, manipulative and lazy (which doesn't quite fit here either). Link to comment
catrox14 May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 (edited) My point in my previous post (badly made, admittedly) was that Mycroft doesn't make SENSE as a lazy, entitled mess. It's far beyond Watson being a Sober Companion in terms of reinvention. Really, he HAD to be a spook. Nothing else could explain him even being on the show and having that name. I thought Mycroft working with a crime organization to save his own business interests was secretive enough to be "Mycroftian" without being 100% canon. I loved that they fooled me. Edited May 2, 2014 by catrox14 1 Link to comment
Kromm May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 BTW: as catrox14 mentioned, Lucy Liu directed this episode. Here's some CBS stuff on this: http://www.cbs.com/shows/elementary/news/1002430/ and Zap2it: http://zap2it.com/blogs/elementarys_lucy_liu_says_her_directorial_debut_was_the_most_fun_shes_had_on_the_show-2014-05 Link to comment
Trey May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 Rhys looked great in the last scene. His whole presence shifted and he looked very tall next to our petite Joan. Swoon. I'll say! And he looked pretty good in the rest of the episode too! To be fair to Mycroft, it was really Sherlock alerting Joan to the French mafia hanging out in the restaurant, and her own curiosity, that got her kidnapped. Certainly it was Mycroft who had created the whole situation but he couldn't know that Joan would follow the mafia guy into a dark alley. I agree with catrox14 that this was one of the best episodes of the series. I really enjoyed it. I recall from the books that Mycroft, however brilliant, was very lazy and it was definitely Sherlock doing all the heavy lifting in the search for the list and the person who took it. 1 Link to comment
Cress May 2, 2014 Share May 2, 2014 "bludgeon his way to ever more foreseen profits” I thought Sherlock said obscene profits there. I was fooled about Mycroft being just a restauranteur when he first appeared. It didn't make much sense, but I shrugged it off. Maybe they were imagining that Mycroft used to be fat because he was addicted to gourmet food and so wanted to get into that business. When we got the first hint of Mycroft being shady, with the mysterious phone call, I was worried they were making Mycroft evil and in league with Moriarty. So I as glad with this episode that Mycroft turned out to be secretly some kind of spy. That still doesn't match up with the books, where Mycroft is more a government bureaucrat who gives out missions. (And then a later Holmes movie implied that he was into secret stuff with the Foreign Office, but it was suggested that he was more of a spy handler than a spy himself.) Mycroft being a spy means he's not so lazy after all, but I'll shrug and go along with it. Mycroft doesn't just think he's smarter; Sherlock actually says that his brother is smarter and more gifted with deductions than he. Sherlock says he sometimes consults Mycroft about cases, and Mycroft always knows who did it. The problem is the Mycroft is lazy and "would rather be thought wrong than go to the trouble to prove himself right." So I think that means Mycroft would never go gather clues and set traps to arrest criminals; he's useless at practical Link to comment
shapeshifter May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 I would have liked to hear the song playing in that scene, just in the backgroundIf/when we could Like parts of posts (like separate footnotes), I would have liked this part. Just a few bars of Paint it Black for us oldsters would have been nice. Link to comment
Mr Rampage May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 Add me to the pile of suckers who didn't see that twist coming. But be warned, show, that I want a very satisfactory explanation of all of this next week or I shall get rather annoyed. Link to comment
txwatcher May 3, 2014 Share May 3, 2014 You got me show. I didn't think you were going to play the Mycroft/Special Branch angle. Welll plaed show, well played. Link to comment
Cress May 4, 2014 Share May 4, 2014 Hmm, I didn't notice that my message got cut off mid-sentence. It's missing "he's useless at practical stuff, and the crime-solving is just an armchair hobby to him. That's why Sherlock is the detective, not Mycroft." Link to comment
webruce May 4, 2014 Share May 4, 2014 (edited) It was nice that during her captivity that Joan helped try to save James, Marchef's cousin. But because he had to be taken to the hospital, Marchef murdered him.Sherlock did act towards Mycroft just like I figured he would when he told him about Watson being kidnapped. Mycroft said it best to Sherlock, "I think she is the person you most love in the world!" He is right. Sherlock loves Joan, not in a bf/gf way. But in a sisterly way. She has seen him at his best and his worse. She has hung by him. She has helped him grow. She has not abandoned him. Or he her, and he won't now. I believe Joan knew that.Now I was surprised that he recontacted NSA Agent Dean McNally(The Good Wife,Revolution). Surprised that Captain Gegson and Detective Bell were not in the episode.Liked Sherlock telling Mycroft after they talked to Deron about Watson questioning suspects/witnesses, "She's a trained Detective, your a Buffoon!". lolNice summer home, but Holmes finding Normans body in the ground and being lucky enough to find where his face is, how did he be so lucky? Was it ground contour?Liked that they found out Security Head Kurt Yoder(The Mentalist, Unforgettable) had the list that Pierce Norman had loaded with all those names that Guillume de Soto wanted. Yoder was delivered in the trunk.Worried that after Mycroft tased Sherlock to keep him from contacting authorities that Mycroft or Joan would be wounded. Nice Mycroft had back up. Was it Interpol? MI-6? And is that the news he has to tell Joan and Sherlock?? He is part of it? The BBC Mycroft works for the Government. Sherlock and Joan will not be happy with him. Not sure which one will be madder, Joan for seemingly being used for a pawn to trap de Soto's team or Sherlock for his own brother using her and him Edited May 5, 2014 by webruce Link to comment
SilvaVocat May 5, 2014 Share May 5, 2014 It was really nice of the bad guys to hold off on shooting Mycroft and Joan until Mycroft could make a smarmy speech and then say the code phrase to make MI6 shoot the bad guys. Just imagine how embarrassing it would be for Mycroft if the bad guys had just shot him and Joan dead right there the moment the chief bad guy gave the order. I mean, he'd be kicking himself all over the after life. 4 Link to comment
jhlipton May 5, 2014 Share May 5, 2014 SilvaVocat: It was really nice of the bad guys to hold off on shooting Mycroft and Joan until Mycroft could make a smarmy speech and then say the code phrase to make MI6 shoot the bad guys. I was thinking the same thing. At very least, shoot Watson mid-speech and then as Mycroft starts to say "Paint.." BAM! I'm awfully glad they didn't kill Watson, but that was ghastly scripting. Link to comment
MaryHedwig May 8, 2014 Share May 8, 2014 It was really nice of the bad guys to hold off on shooting Mycroft and Joan until Mycroft could make a smarmy speech So agree with the too-convenient timing. I guess Le Milieu were gentleman after all, and Mycroft just had to ask them for last words in a very nice tone of voice. I do wonder if his plea to Mr. Twisted Lip (I am assuming that's who they meant in last week's title- don't know his name but we watched him kill his cousin) was not suppose to be a smarmy speech but actually a (hidden) plea to Mr. TL to back off so the Brits would not have to kill TL and his friends. If so, it was certainly too subtle for TL to catch- and he's the one kicking himself in the afterlife. 2 Link to comment
frenchtoast May 8, 2014 Share May 8, 2014 I just want to say, from the bottom of my French major heart, thank you, everyone, for spelling milieu correctly. It makes me happy, what can I say. And yes, I do own Good Grammar Costs Nothing. I picked up a little on what the French bad guys were saying, too, but I have a hard time picking up cross conversations in English, in French it's even harder. As for the bad guys waiting for Mycroft to give a speech--eh. It's stupid, but it's a common dramatic trope that I can live with. What I didn't understand was why the main bad guy (forgot his name) drove off before his henchman shot Mycroft and Joan. Wouldn't he want to see that to make sure they were dead? I can still handwave it because it's a common trope, but still. To have both of those in the space of a few seconds dumbed the episode down a little. I can accept it, but it would have been nice if they had subverted the trope a little. 2 Link to comment
Cress May 9, 2014 Share May 9, 2014 (edited) Mr. Twisted Lip I saw no twisted lip. I looked everywhere in this episode. No one was disfigured. The twisted lip is supposed to be a literal scar and disfigurement that's very noticeable; a guy's defining trait (and actually a disguise). It's not something that could be missed. If they meant "twisted lip" in an allegorical sense, then the story should have contained more hints, character names, references, etc. Something to make the title apparent. There was nothing. They drove this Sherlockian crazy for a meaningless title, and I demand an apology. I demand that they never use a canon title again, unless the case is actually used. Make up all the new mysteries you want to, but don't steal titles from the canon if you're not going to do a riff on the actuall case. Edited May 9, 2014 by Cress 2 Link to comment
frenchtoast May 10, 2014 Share May 10, 2014 I saw no twisted lip. I looked everywhere in this episode. No one was disfigured. The twisted lip is supposed to be a literal scar and disfigurement that's very noticeable; a guy's defining trait (and actually a disguise). It's not something that could be missed. If they meant "twisted lip" in an allegorical sense, then the story should have contained more hints, character names, references, etc. Something to make the title apparent. There was nothing. They drove this Sherlockian crazy for a meaningless title, and I demand an apology. I demand that they never use a canon title again, unless the case is actually used. Make up all the new mysteries you want to, but don't steal titles from the canon if you're not going to do a riff on the actuall case. And, I like that story. It's a cute and clever story. Why would they waste the title on that? Grrrr. Link to comment
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