The Victorian Slum - General Discussion

[Mabinogia]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also glad they didn't make a big deal out of the three newcomers going on "strike."

I love that the wife's response was that she didn't blame them and was surprised they didn't go sooner. Then the family just pulled together and got the order done. I want this family to say and do all the shows/decades. They have the right attitude for this sort of thing.

[iMonrey]

I know right? Like, if PBS decides to do Roaring 20's House or something next, I want all the same people to be in it. They're all just so game. (Except Shazeda.)

[SayMyName]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The upper class "slumming it" was kind of hysterical, really. But there should have been some repercussions for Andy. He basically just barged into their rooms with a tour group - I think the tenants should have ganged up on him afterwards and demanded some of his earnings from the tour.

 

In today's world, absolutely. Back then doing that would result in being kicked out I would bet.

So if the Tailor family's sweat shop was running up to 20 hours a day the family would have to run in shifts all day every day. Not fun.

The poor workers would also have to try to find something to eat at some time in the middle of the night potentially.

[humbleopinion]

The Irish sister earned her pay this week doing the laundry of the other tenants over a hot kettle and fire.

However, her false eyelashes look ridiculous as she bent over the boiling laundry.

[Constant Viewer]

I was kind of surprised none of the slum tenants demanded money from the tourists in return for a photo.  I realize they were too mad and upset at the situation, but I imagine someone would have eventually thought of it.

[Nire]

5 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

The Irish sister earned her pay this week doing the laundry of the other tenants over a hot kettle and fire.

However, her false eyelashes look ridiculous as she bent over the boiling laundry.

Yeah I kept thinking those aren't accurate!

I really liked the latest episode!  The new residents were great and I loved all the connections with their own ancestors.  

I still feel like this show does seem to be missing the typical complaints of these types of shows.  Nobody has mentioned lack of showers or the outhouse.  Even skipping meals seems to be a minor issue for these participants.  I'm not sure if they got a really great group or slip them food/hot baths behind the scenes?

[mightysparrow]

This last episode was very moving.  I really enjoyed the three new men that joined.  The older gentleman who had to pawn his hat was so dignified and eloquent.  My eyes got a bit moist when he stood up and announced he was on strike in solidarity with those who had gone before.  I was sorry to see them walk off into the sunset.

I thought it was interesting to see how quickly and easily TailorMom became a slave driver.  Her own daughter was shocked.  It was interesting that the father just shut up and let his wife be the bad guy.  Empathy seems to be one of the first things that go out of the window.

The poverty tourists were awful.  It reminded me of tourists I've seen in poorer parts of the world, who point and take pictures of the people they see and the way they live without giving a single thought to how those people might feel.  It's sad to know that 'slumming' is still with us.

The history of labour is fascinating.  I think everyone should know about how hard people fought to get workers rights.  Unions don't seem to be very popular nowadays, but in most cases, unions are the only thing between the worker and exploitation.  TailorMom is a perfect example of how willing employers are to exploit the people who work for them, if they can get away with it, in order to make a few extra dollars.

[LittleIggy]

There would never have been a middle class if it weren't for unions.

[Snarklepuss]

5 hours ago, Nire said:

I still feel like this show does seem to be missing the typical complaints of these types of shows.  Nobody has mentioned lack of showers or the outhouse.  Even skipping meals seems to be a minor issue for these participants.  I'm not sure if they got a really great group or slip them food/hot baths behind the scenes?

I know, I've been thinking that myself.  And I somehow can't picture them eating nothing but that dreadful food with no complaints either.  They all look a little too well fed and put together to me.  Having watched "survivor" type shows people quickly lose weight and start to look bedraggled under difficult circumstances, while here they are not.  Does anyone know if they actually keep things authentic off-camera?  I'm wondering if they don't just show up every day and get given tasks but don't actually live/eat/wash there.

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

The poverty tourists were awful.  It reminded me of tourists I've seen in poorer parts of the world, who point and take pictures of the people they see and the way they live without giving a single thought to how those people might feel.  It's sad to know that 'slumming' is still with us.

That really hit me, when one of them mentioned that it is still like this in some third world nations, where tourists go to small villages and take selfies and watch people struggling to survive.

As far as the not complaining about the bathing situation, toilets, whatnot, I'm fine with not seeing that stuff. I am well aware that pooping in a wooden box that is sitting out in the hot sun is disgusting and stinks to high hell. I know that barely having food and being hungry all the time sucks. I've seen that stuff before.

I'm glad they are focusing more on the relentlessness of the work because, while I knew that the poor had to work their asses off, I never fully understood just how precarious their lives were, how relentless the desperation was. I can't imagine working as hard as they are just to get by, if they're lucky, with no hope for a better future. I find it fascinating that these people (the real ones, not the ones on this show) managed to survive.

It also gives me a deep appreciation for the fact that I was able to take a sick day today without fear of losing the roof over my head or not being able to eat. I never fully understood that living paycheck to paycheck isn't the worst thing, because at least I know I'm getting a paycheck. The focus on the work aspect, and the rent aspect is fascinating to me because even my active imagination couldn't grasp just how bad it truly was.

That whole story of the holding pen at the dock, men being shoved in like cattle and then someone walking around the pen picking the healthy while the unhealthy are being trampled and sometimes killed underfoot. It is inhuman.

[auntjess]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 0:35 PM, iMonrey said:

The upper class "slumming it" was kind of hysterical, really. But there should have been some repercussions for Andy. He basically just barged into their rooms with a tour group - I think the tenants should have ganged up on him afterwards and demanded some of his earnings from the tour.

I did wonder if he'd share.  But as far as refusing, he wasn't the owner, only the owner's agent.

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 4:31 PM, humbleopinion said:

The Irish sister earned her pay this week doing the laundry of the other tenants over a hot kettle and fire.

We didn't see how the cloths turned out, did we?

23 hours ago, Nire said:

 I'm not sure if they got a really great group or slip them food/hot baths behind the scenes?

I can't imagine them actually going hungry.  Maybe there was a day between the decades to bathe.

[shksabelle]

I wonder if for health and safety reasons they actually eat normally and have access to modern sanitation facilities after filming. 

[humbleopinion]

If the cast are getting to freshen up, then shampoo and conditioner aren't included.

The grandmother's gray short hair is sticking straight out of her head and uncontrolled by her black hat.

In past series, the lack of modern shampoo and conditioner was missed by female cast members.

Washing their hair with bar soap was disastrous.

[Vermicious Knid]

The producers had to be fronting the laundry money to the families because that certainly wasn't in the budget. They were barely able to afford rent, an extra 30p would have been beyond their means.

Did they have that guy at the docks just walking back and forth with full sacks to simulate a dockworker, and not an actual job?

Lee's grandfather may have come to England on the Kindertransport.

[meatball77]

Everytime I see the grandmother in the bed in her room it reminds me of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

I can't imagine that they could get away with not feeding the kids properly.  I'd bet that because of the kids they at least have access to running water to wash their hands (and it's not like the Irish sister could put those fake eyelashes on everyday unless she had access to a bathroom and lash glue).  

I love both sets of kids but I adore the boy in the Taylor families household who is just pumped about everything related to sewing. 

[Arynm]

As the rich tourists came through, I thought it was a great idea to sell them something. Where was the watercress when you really need it. They could have made bank by guilting the rich tourists into buying something.  I know they were pissed but they missed an opportunity there.

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, Arynm said:

Where was the watercress when you really need it.

And the sheep's trotters!

[LittleIggy]

That was something about tearing down the slums, then making it impossible for the displaced people to live in the nifty new flats. There really was no justice for them.

[humbleopinion]

Least favorite episode.

Too scripted and less spontaneous.

[enoughcats]

I think some of the other fans of the past might be interested in this very long story from The Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/lolas-story/524490/

At the beginning there is a bit of time overlap with London Slum, but from the other side of the Eastern Hemisphere. Then a migration to the western US.   It's a story about a family and the person who lived with them who was, in the words of the author, their "slave". And it is a story I will never forget.   You won't enjoy it, but it is so much more than I expected it to be.

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

That was something about tearing down the slums, then making it impossible for the displaced people to live in the nifty new flats

Argh!  I was so looking forward to seeing them move into clean new places.  Why didn't the council (in1890) go ahead and lower the rent in the bigger flats?  Wouldn't that have been better than to have them stand empty? 

I hated the final message that seemed to say, whenever the government tries to help it just makes things worse for the poor.  That seems to be telling us to give up and just let them live and die in misery.  Things are much better now so somewhere along the way something must have been done right.

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, things took a LONG time to get much better. My father was raised in the East End in the late 1940s to 1956 and he has always refered to his childhood in England as "living in a third world country" and "a squalid hellhole".

[Mabinogia]

I continue to adore the Tailor's wife. While her family could easily have moved into the nicer housing she was still well aware and thoughtful about those who couldn't. It isn't surprising that people (govt) who had no idea what these people's lives were really like would make nice housing and think that these families would magically be able to afford them.

I did like Gramps and Rent Guy being all "hell with this" when they found out their work wasn't actually to make the place better for them but to make it better so that they would get more money to tear it down. It's all about the money.

The school concept was interesting. Again, something I hadn't really given much thought to. Once kids had to go to school the family had less income so of course the kids would not only have to go to school but still work. They were now doing twice as much as the parents.

Poverty is relentless. That is the lesson I'm getting from this show. No matter how hard you try, unless you are young and healthy with no responsibilities (like the Irish siblings, who had no one else to support and were fit enough to get hard labor), you are screwed. Even for the Siblings, one injury could end their upward mobility. How precariously they lived.

I have to admit, I am really invested in these people. I know it's all fake, they go back to their real lives soon, but when the women went for showers I felt their joy. I am excited for the Tailor's family getting that fancy new work space, etc. They got a really good group of people for this.

[iMonrey]

The Howarth daughter didn't have to go to school. I don't know if they've ever told us her age, but I'm assuming the new law said children under Age X were required to go to school and she's Age X or older. This seemed like a pretty big omission and I wonder how that info got lost in the editing process. 

It has struck me, not for the first time, that a lot of what befalls these families are simply assigned to them, so the whole thing feels a bit more like a stage play than the typical "House" series. For example, the Irish sister (damned if I can remember her name, and nowhere can I find a good cast list for this show) becomes something of a successful entrepreneur taking in local washing. But why couldn't the women of the Potter family have done that just as easily, especially when you consider there are four of them? Instead, the two older Potter women wind up working for the Irish sister. ???  

I do wonder to what extent they are actually "suffering" given the lack of complaints but I'm going to give the show the benefit of the doubt that their experiences, as given, are genuine. We've seen plenty of griping on the other House shows, and as I noted above there seems to be some crucial information cut for one reason or another. 

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It has struck me, not for the first time, that a lot of what befalls these families are simply assigned to them, so the whole thing feels a bit more like a stage play than the typical "House" series.

I think I actually like that aspect of it. Otherwise you might not get to see all the aspects. I think the show wants to show us a variety of experiences. Some of them successful, some not. I'm glad because it's more interesting than watching a bunch of people all deciding to do the same thing. Like, something like Survivor, where one person sees someone be successful doing a certain thing then they all do it. That's dull to me. I'm glad they had assigned roles.

I'm guessing the older daughter was at least 16-17. I just looked it up and saw something that the mandatory age for schooling in 1893 was 5-11 years old. So she wouldn't have had to go. The year before it was all children ages 5-10.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Mabinogia

[JudyObscure]

I lived in England 1990-1993 and, late at night, the BBC would show very old archive films made by the government.  One of them seemed to have been made in the 30's about a woman moving from old tenement housing into new council housing.  She was so grateful!  She gave a tour of her new kitchen and bathroom with tub as well as toilet and sink. She talked about how wonderful it was to be able to keep her children clean and said that there had been times when she had sat up on a chair, all night, holding her baby in her lap so the roaches and rats wouldn't get at him.

There was another one showing the details of all the work a woman did on laundry day in her kitchen.  Has anyone else seen these?  I've searched YouTube with no luck but I don't know the official names.  They were riveting.

[Ms Lark]

16 hours ago, enoughcats said:

I think some of the other fans of the past might be interested in this very long story from The Atlantic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/lolas-story/524490/

Thank you for posting this. A sad and sobering story. How many more like Lola are out there?

[auntjess]

1 hour ago, Ms Lark said:

Thank you for posting this. A sad and sobering story. How many more like Lola are out there?

From time to time, in the DC area, you'd see stories about people brought with them by embassy families, who'd manage to contact someone and get out.

[LittleIggy]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The Howarth daughter didn't have to go to school. I don't know if they've ever told us her age, but I'm assuming the new law said children under Age X were required to go to school and she's Age X or older. This seemed like a pretty big omission and I wonder how that info got lost in the editing process. 

 

The age range was mentioned. The upper age was twelve, IIRC.

[Quilt Fairy]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For example, the Irish sister (damned if I can remember her name

Maria.

[RemoteControlFreak]

On 5/18/2017 at 10:04 PM, meatball77 said:

Everytime I see the grandmother in the bed in her room it reminds me of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

I can't imagine that they could get away with not feeding the kids properly.  I'd bet that because of the kids they at least have access to running water to wash their hands (and it's not like the Irish sister could put those fake eyelashes on everyday unless she had access to a bathroom and lash glue).  

I love both sets of kids but I adore the boy in the Taylor families household who is just pumped about everything related to sewing. 

Yes, the kids are fed well and regularly and otherwise taken care of.  To do otherwise would be a violation of the child labor laws that were enacted in part because of the conditions depicted in this series.

And interesting that none of the women wore makeup except for Maria and her obvious fake lashes. I wonder how she got away with the producers letting her keep them?  Also, I could be wrong but is a bathroom necessary to apply fake lashes?  Doesn't one just need a mirror and glue?

Edited May 25, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[RemoteControlFreak]

Andy Gardiner, the rent collector with an artificial leg, is going to town on his Twitter in response to the Manchester bombing.

https://twitter.com/golf_andy

[Vermicious Knid]

So they finally addressed the sanitation issues. Did they not make the privy situation clear earlier because they were saving it for this episode? And did I miss it or was it not explained how the Howarth family suddenly became so prosperous? They went from running a sweatshop to having their own business doing fancywork with no employees, but were making lots more. Loved the son's enthusiasm for the sewing. Think he's going to follow dad as a tailor.

Going to the 'public bathhouse' and taking showers with their clothes on. And then taking those same clothes into the pool that other people use. Ew.

This is produced by the same people who did 1940s House and I hope they also do the coda at the end, where they revisit the participants and ask how the experience has effected their lives.

[humbleopinion]

The Bespoke suit that Russell Howarth made brought in 20 pounds or as I misheard 220 pounds, which didn't sound right but would account for their sudden wealth.

The clothes made for the show by Russell and the family were displayed in a London Custom Tailor Graham Browne when the series aired in the UK.

[auntjess]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:45 PM, iMonrey said:

I do wonder to what extent they are actually "suffering" given the lack of complaints but I'm going to give the show the benefit of the doubt that their experiences, as given, are genuine. We've seen plenty of griping on the other House shows, and as I noted above there seems to be some crucial information cut for one reason or another. 

I'm assuming they weren't in conditions that would cause dysentery or other filth-borne diseases.

37 minutes ago, Vermicious Knid said:

 And did I miss it or was it not explained how the Howarth family suddenly became so prosperous? They went from running a sweatshop to having their own business doing fancywork with no employees, but were making lots more. Loved the son's enthusiasm for the sewing. Think he's going to follow dad as a tailor.

He had the skills to start, and was given a sewing machine, then given a sweat shop, and finally a shop.  That mirrors the progress a tailor could make.

[Glaze Crazy]

On 5/24/2017 at 1:03 PM, JudyObscure said:

I lived in England 1990-1993 and, late at night, the BBC would show very old archive films made by the government.  One of them seemed to have been made in the 30's about a woman moving from old tenement housing into new council housing.  She was so grateful!  She gave a tour of her new kitchen and bathroom with tub as well as toilet and sink. She talked about how wonderful it was to be able to keep her children clean and said that there had been times when she had sat up on a chair, all night, holding her baby in her lap so the roaches and rats wouldn't get at him.

There was another one showing the details of all the work a woman did on laundry day in her kitchen.  Has anyone else seen these?  I've searched YouTube with no luck but I don't know the official names.  They were riveting.

Try here, JudyObscure. I didn't specifically look for your subject but I can guarantee this site is a rabbit hole for all kinds of old UK newsreels and videos. British Pathe

I'm also a big UK/BBC documentary addict. I find a lot of stuff on YouTube and I know I've seen a few where they interviewed residents of old neighborhoods like these. I remember one where these old ladies laughed about how they used to have to go out in the back yard for the outdoors 'loo when they were kids growing up in terrace houses. And they were probably living there pre- or post- WWII. ***whispers*** I saw Victorian Slum on there earlier this year before PBS started airing it. It was annoying to watch it that way since the person had to tweak it to get it past whatever filters BBC or YT use to find their property and take it down. Glad to be able to see it full screen and with decent sound. LOL

I was fascinated by how the local council built those nice blocks and completely overlooked that their target demo would not be able to either afford to move into the flats and/or would need to be able to continue with their ability to earn money to afford to move there, which wasn't allowed. I noticed that there were also separate spaces provided nearby for rent that people could work out of, but probably the only family that would have been able to afford to do that would have been the tailors. That block of flats is still pretty nice to look at, via google street view.

I'm of the opinion that the people involved are being assigned their living and working trajectories to give a representation of the overall life challenges of typical people of the era. As said above, if left to their own devices none of these modern folks would have a clue where to start and once someone was having success at something the rest would just jump into that process. We need to see a range of activities that people would have to choose to do to survive. I also doubt any of them are not getting additional food when needed (I don't think TPTB could legally starve kids in any case). Along with proper sanitation facilities since they are in London and I don't think an open cesspit is a real option these days. They might be skipping full showers though. It was interesting to see how public baths became an option by the late 1800s.

[Snarklepuss]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:47 AM, Mabinogia said:

Poverty is relentless. That is the lesson I'm getting from this show. No matter how hard you try, unless you are young and healthy with no responsibilities (like the Irish siblings, who had no one else to support and were fit enough to get hard labor), you are screwed. Even for the Siblings, one injury could end their upward mobility. How precariously they lived.

My parents both grew up dirt poor during the Great Depression and although they survived and did comparatively much better, we were one of those "hand to mouth" middle class families.  And so am I to be honest, since the recession, since both my husband and I lost our jobs and almost lost our house.  So when Mr. Snarkle and I watch this show it reminds us that although we enjoy a much higher standard of living than the poor featured on this show, we are never more than a few weeks away from losing everything, literally.  He has his own business where if he doesn't work he doesn't make money and it's a constant struggle.  We shudder to think of what would happen if for some reason he was unable to work for a while.  And I am at the moment disabled from an accident and recovering, and now unemployed.  We are within a decade of retirement age but don't ever think we can really afford to retire.  Our house is worth less than we paid for it 11 years ago (our area's real estate values never recovered), so when we watch this show it makes us think of how precarious we are and how our lives aren't potentially that far removed from the poor featured on this show.

It also makes me think of just how courageous my Jewish great grandparents were that risked their lives to flee the pogroms in Poland/Russia and went to Whitechapel, how they worked their asses off to make a better life for their family to eventually come to the US.  I am learning so much about them through this show!  I know they lived in a little row house - I've seen it, it's still there and it was very modest, but much better than the tenement on this show.  I think the tailoring family on this show is pretty accurately reflecting the reality of my relative's lives - except for the fact that my father tells me even after they made better money everyone still worked in the family shop, and his GGM did not stay home like the wife on this show.  My family found a niche in the uniform business - Back then  military uniforms were contracted out to tailors that conformed to the government patterns and fabrics.  When they came to the US they continued that business in lower Manhattan for a long time.

I want to find that color coded map mentioned in this episode too and try to find the street where my relatives lived to see what color it was!

This is a family wedding photo taken in about 1896 in Whitechapel.  The bride was my GGM's sister.  My GGM and GGF are the couple at the top left in the photo.  My grandfather was a baby so he wasn't in the photo but a lot of his siblings are.  I didn't see this photo until 5 years ago when a distant cousin sent it to me.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[MrPissyPuppy]

6 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I want to find that color coded map mentioned in this episode too and try to find the street where my relatives lived to see what color it was!

I found them! 

https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0

You can download by location as well. 

This looks like a pretty interesting site - there are police notebooks, workhouse notebooks and Jewish notebooks from that era as well.   

https://booth.lse.ac.uk/notebooks

[Misslindsey]

Quote

And interesting that none of the women wore makeup except for Maria and her obvious fake lashes. I wonder how she got away with the producers letting her keep them?  Also, I could be wrong but is a bathroom necessary to apply fake lashes?  Doesn't one just need a mirror and glue?

I was wondering if Maria's eyelashes were lash extensions, because I have a hard time believing she put on fake lashes every day. Then again what do I know?

[Snarklepuss]

29 minutes ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

I found them! 

https://booth.lse.ac.uk/map/14/-0.1174/51.5064/100/0

Thanks so much!  I had seen this map before online when doing my genealogical research, but never knew the significance of the color coding.  My family lived on a street coded as "mixed, some comfortable, others poor".

[humbleopinion]

Maria's eyelashes were actual caterpillars she trained to live on her eyes...jk.

She put superglue on those puppies and didn't take them off during her time on the show....

[Pepper Mostly]

On 5/17/2017 at 10:19 AM, humbleopinion said:

The star of the show for me is the Tailor's son, he shows how children end up doing what their fathers did because they had to start working in the "biz" at an early age.

His delight over the multiple Singer sewing machines was fantastic.

Both the Tailor's kids had the right attitude for this type of series.

I absolutely love the whole Howarth family! The little boy is utterly adorable--loved his enthusiasm for the rare old sewing machines and how all in both he and his sister are. The mother is a lovely, thoughtful woman and I look forward to her insights.

On 5/17/2017 at 7:40 PM, Constant Viewer said:

I was kind of surprised none of the slum tenants demanded money from the tourists in return for a photo.  I realize they were too mad and upset at the situation, but I imagine someone would have eventually thought of it.

I will bet any money that actual slum residents would have gotten a few pennies. Everyone had a side hustle-othewise you couldn't live. You pawned your hat, or you did a dance or told a joke on the corner for a few pence, or your sold old rags, or glass, or bricks, anything that would bring a penny or two.

On 5/17/2017 at 10:06 PM, mightysparrow said:

This last episode was very moving.  I really enjoyed the three new men that joined.  The older gentleman who had to pawn his hat was so dignified and eloquent.  My eyes got a bit moist when he stood up and announced he was on strike in solidarity with those who had gone before.  I was sorry to see them walk off into the sunset.

I thought it was interesting to see how quickly and easily TailorMom became a slave driver.  Her own daughter was shocked.  It was interesting that the father just shut up and let his wife be the bad guy.  Empathy seems to be one of the first things that go out of the window.

The poverty tourists were awful.  It reminded me of tourists I've seen in poorer parts of the world, who point and take pictures of the people they see and the way they live without giving a single thought to how those people might feel.  It's sad to know that 'slumming' is still with us.

The history of labour is fascinating.  I think everyone should know about how hard people fought to get workers rights.  Unions don't seem to be very popular nowadays, but in most cases, unions are the only thing between the worker and exploitation.  TailorMom is a perfect example of how willing employers are to exploit the people who work for them, if they can get away with it, in order to make a few extra dollars.

@mightysparrow, I too teared up when the oldest sweatshop worker stood up and walked out. And it is easy to see how unions were able to get a foothold. People were utterly disposable and exploitable.

On 5/24/2017 at 9:47 AM, Mabinogia said:

I continue to adore the Tailor's wife. While her family could easily have moved into the nicer housing she was still well aware and thoughtful about those who couldn't. It isn't surprising that people (govt) who had no idea what these people's lives were really like would make nice housing and think that these families would magically be able to afford them.

I did like Gramps and Rent Guy being all "hell with this" when they found out their work wasn't actually to make the place better for them but to make it better so that they would get more money to tear it down. It's all about the money.

The school concept was interesting. Again, something I hadn't really given much thought to. Once kids had to go to school the family had less income so of course the kids would not only have to go to school but still work. They were now doing twice as much as the parents.

Poverty is relentless. That is the lesson I'm getting from this show. No matter how hard you try, unless you are young and healthy with no responsibilities (like the Irish siblings, who had no one else to support and were fit enough to get hard labor), you are screwed. Even for the Siblings, one injury could end their upward mobility. How precariously they lived.

I have to admit, I am really invested in these people. I know it's all fake, they go back to their real lives soon, but when the women went for showers I felt their joy. I am excited for the Tailor's family getting that fancy new work space, etc. They got a really good group of people for this.

"The trouble with being poor is that it takes up all your time" - Willem de Kooning. People had to be on the move from dawn to dusk to make a few bucks. I read the book "The Victorian City" and the section on how the kids who sold newspapers organized their days made my head spin. Up at dawn, picking up papers, delivering them, plus there was a complicated system of selling and/or renting day old papers. They had to keep track of that, pick up old papers, deliver to another renter, and so on throughout the day and into the night. Costermongers and other people who sold things walked miles and miles every day. The women who did laundry--can you imagine? Hand wringing heavy sheets, trying to keep everything off the muddy ground, hunkered over kettles of boiling water and caustic soap all day?

I bet all those historic flats that were built to re-house the slum dwellers (that few of them could afford!) are highly desirable apartments for the well to do now. Does anyone know?

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

The women who did laundry--can you imagine? Hand wringing heavy sheets, trying to keep everything off the muddy ground, hunkered over kettles of boiling water and caustic soap all day?

Plus rainy English weather. As I get older, I can barely wring out my wash cloth due to arthritis in my thumbs.  Imagine if you had been a laundress all your life and suddenly knew you were going to have to either work through terrible pain or quit and starve in your old age.  Thank God for social security.

@Snarklepuss thank you for sharing your family history with us, love the picture, especially the top hats!

@ Glaze Crazy, I've book marked the link.  Thanks so much!

[Glaze Crazy]

12 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

 

I bet all those historic flats that were built to re-house the slum dwellers (that few of them could afford!) are highly desirable apartments for the well to do now. Does anyone know?

Here's a 2 bed flat for sale on one of the streets that spoke out from the round park in Arnold Circus. (Boundary Gardens). The Estate name is Boundary Estates, I think the show mentioned it by name also. This flat is about 550 sq. feet for over 500,000 GBP, so add another 40% or so for USD price. All the "character" has been long stripped out of these properties, I'm sure. This place looks pretty modern/generic, IMO.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45571491.html

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:10 PM, Vermicious Knid said:

And did I miss it or was it not explained how the Howarth family suddenly became so prosperous? They went from running a sweatshop to having their own business doing fancywork with no employees, but were making lots more.

Don't forget that every week/episode they jump forward and reset to a new decade. So the success of the tailor's family is part of a story arc created for the show, although it seemed very realistic to me.

[Snarklepuss]

12 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Don't forget that every week/episode they jump forward and reset to a new decade. So the success of the tailor's family is part of a story arc created for the show, although it seemed very realistic to me.

Yes, I thought it was realistic too especially given my own family's experience.  Even though I'm sure they made all the clothes in the photo I posted above, I doubt they would have been able to afford a nice wedding with photos if they hadn't become somewhat prosperous in their tailoring business.  Although I don't feel like the show adequately explained how that happened except to say that there was a demand for tailoring that the Jewish tailors fulfilled.  I suppose after years of saving money they were able to rent a decent shop and hire more workers, hence make more money, and then eventually pay their way to the US.  My great grandparents had 7 children, so they had built in no-pay help which certainly helped, but that also meant it cost more for their passage as a group to the US.  I was told that the family came here in small groups.  My grandfather was 14 when he came to New York with some of his brothers.  He was the second youngest of the family.  The others all came around the same time in 1909 in small groups.  My uncle Nat was only 8 years old when he came here.

[Nire]

So I take back my previous questioning on authenticity.  I saw a few participants post on Facebook that therewas no extra foodbor anything else given to them.  That they actually survived on a few crusts of bread and felt faint from lack of food.  And that it was very cold.  I wonder if their complaints were edited out or if they didn't complain.  I feel like this House show focused on showing political and social change instead of focusing on what they struggled with daily living in the slums.  I'd have preferred preferred to get more from the pparticipants of what they wereactually experiencing.  I think it should have been a longer show.  Five episodes isn't enough.

[Mabinogia]

3 hours ago, Nire said:

 I think it should have been a longer show.

This! Each decade could have been stretched to two episodes, so we could get the practical side along with the political/social. I'm glad they did focus on the political/social aspect because I did find it fascinating, and I'm more aware of the dirty, poop in a hole aspect, but I would like to have seen both sides. I'm sure they edited out more than enough to fill another hour long ep for each decade.

[humbleopinion]

Finale of the limited series.

This was the feasting show.

The cast was treated to several good meals.

The historical events kept the show moving along at a good clip.

Farewells.

[LittleIggy]

That was a surprisingly moving series. The participants were great (especially James!).

Too bad King Edward VII's reign was so short. It was awesome that he had his feast given to the East Enders.

When they were talking to the people who had lived in the slums up to the 50s and 60s, I thought of a "Call the Midwife" episode where a woman got a spiffy new council flat in a high rise. She loved the flat but missed the people and sense of community of Poplar.

BTW, how much is a guinea?

Edited May 31, 2017 by LittleIggy