S01.E12: Chapter Twelve: Anatomy Of A Murder

[Mabinogia]

I was confused by the whole barrel thing as well. When Penelope showed the barrels to Cheryl, what was that supposed to mean? And later on, when the barrel fell and stuff came falling out, I know it wasn't syrup, but was it drugs? I'm so used to all TV drugs being white cocaine, and it didn't look white to me, so I'm not sure what it was supposed to be.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Looked to me like it was bags of cocaine covered in maple syrup. (Which explains the colour.)

[secnarf]

Maybe they are using maple syrup as a cover to smuggle/sell drugs?

I didn't quite get what was going on with that either. At first, I thought maybe they had been shipping and storing the maple syrup from elsewhere since the season just began a couple of episodes ago, and that looked like a lot of maple syrup for such a short time period. But I really don't know - I'm not sure it is supposed to be clear to us yet, either.

[maxineofarc]

8 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Man I already deleted it or id go back to watch that reaction! I missed it 

 

9 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't even remember that one! Excuse me while I go rewatch lol.

Let's see if this embeds...

[jay741982]

23 minutes ago, maxineofarc said:

 

Let's see if this embeds...

Thank you!! And LOL Lili has some of the best expressions and I realized  that I did catch that!!

[Lady Calypso]

As I hoped, a rewatch actually helped piece things together for me. I rewatched FP's confession scene and I think Skeet Ulrich did a good job at showing where the truth stopped and the lies began.  

Here's what I'm pretty sure happened:

• Clifford was not happy with Jason about the whole business situation. They got in an argument on July 3rd and that is when Clifford decided that something had to be done. 
• Clifford paid off Mustang to kidnap Jason and tie him up in the basement of the Wyrm. Hence, Joaquin's story about overhearing a conversation between Mustang and FP. Also, makes sense as to the quick second of the video showing Mustang in the basement with Jason, and it looks like he's finishing tying him up.
• Then, Clifford kills Jason and leaves the body for FP to find. 
• FP cleans up the mess and stashes the body.
• Then, unbenownst to anyone, takes the footage from his secret camera and finds out who killed Jason.
• He eventually torches the getaway car to hide any evidence of his own involvement, but not before taking the jacket as contingency. He definitely hides the thumb drive in the lining of the pocket, so nobody would find it right away. Or, he just hid it in the regular jacket pocket and it slipped through. 
• Then, I guess Clifford found out that FP knew what he did and that's why he went to threaten him?

Again, the pieces are more put together, but there's still a lot that I either missed or they left too vague. Maybe the finale will clear these things up.

Lots of great Betty moments. Lili Reinhart is pretty good at emoting. One of my personal favourite moments from this episode is when Penelope Blossom grabbed onto Betty and tried to threaten her, but Betty's facial expression showed that she was having none of it. 

I really thought that the FP/Jughead scene was well done. Cole and Lili are both strong actors, and they get stronger when they act against one of the adults. Jughead/FP's relationship has now surpassed Archie/Fred's relationship. You could tell the exact moment where Jughead realized that his father was lying, and you could tell that FP was struggling to hold it together in front of his son.

It's actually funny, because I agree that Archie's reaction to Clifford killing Jason was lackluster, but he reacted much better to seeing Mustang's dead body in the bathtub. Also, Joaquin's reaction to seeing Mustang's dead body was pretty funny, because he was the one to not emote at all during it. It is a shame about KJ Apa because I just caught an interview online with him and Cole and he is so damn charming and funny in real life! 

[waving feather]

Lily is a pretty good young actor. So is Camila. They really bring distinct personalities to their characters.

Cole's appearance reminds me of Dylan O'Brien. That cute pale white guy look. But Cole overacts sometimes, especially the angst. He needs to tone it down and have more subtlety. And stop frowning so damn much! 

[Bort]

I can imagine that drugs stashed in barrels of maple syrup would probably get by a lot of drug-sniffing dogs.

[Bill1978]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's actually funny, because I agree that Archie's reaction to Clifford killing Jason was lackluster, but he reacted much better to seeing Mustang's dead body in the bathtub.

Agree, Archie's reaction in the bathtub scene was good and believable, whereas Kevin's was a tad laughable because unfortunately Casey Cott reacted in shock before he could visibly see the body.

[MarkHB]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Here's what I'm pretty sure happened:

Very nicely done!

[starri]

I'm hoping they hire KJ Apa an acting coach during their hiatus.  Tyler Posey was godawful when Teen Wolf started, but he worked at it, and is pretty decent as the show winds down.

[Affogato]

23 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I would say that much of what we've seen would suggest that Cheryl would not be someone a responsible board would want in charge of a business. Granted, she is only like 17, so trying to forecast whether someone would mature enough to be a good entrepreneur is largely a guessing game. But she's unpredictable, vindictive, emotional, self-centered, deceitful, immature, etc. etc. 

Also, it is sort of ridiculous that there would be talk of who would take over the business already, unless there was some illness that both Cliff and Penelope had. Most businesses would act as though there were years before having to worry about a potential successor.

We do know that Jason was preferred and it is implied that this is a good part of why she is unpredictable, vindictive, etc. We don't know anything much about Jason as a person. Was he a centered individual who used the unconditional love given to him over his sister to become something completely other than she is, and would this have been obvious to 'the board', which we saw talking of who would take over the business at the soiree with Archie present? Or are they assuming that youth sports will make a man who understands how to behave in the boardroom in the future, which believe me a lot of people do believe in (the NFL not withstanding). 

It is possible that the contigent of the board so concerned were mob contacts and that the Blossom fortunes depend on that at this time, so if they see the Blossoms as a bad bet Cliff feared they would pull their business and put it somewhere else. 

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

I really thought that the FP/Jughead scene was well done. Cole and Lili are both strong actors, and they get stronger when they act against one of the adults. Jughead/FP's relationship has now surpassed Archie/Fred's relationship. You could tell the exact moment where Jughead realized that his father was lying, and you could tell that FP was struggling to hold it together in front of his son.

 

This message was a good analysis, Lady Calypso.

With Free Comic Book day yesterday I read some Archie Comics and realize that Jughead is a much better character in the television show, more depth, a future. 

I hope we learn more about Jughead's mother and Jellybean and why they rejected him? 

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I can imagine that drugs stashed in barrels of maple syrup would probably get by a lot of drug-sniffing dogs.

Who are paid off in sausage and bacon.

[Affogato]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:17 PM, millk said:

 

Molly Ringwald is the most robotic actor ever.

I assume botox, but she looked like someone who had a stroke. One side of her face was not responding as well as the other. I suppose that is possible, too. I thought she did all right in the part she was given, but it could have been anybody. Maybe she'll get more, later.

[Mabinogia]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You could tell the exact moment where Jughead realized that his father was lying, and you could tell that FP was struggling to hold it together in front of his son.

Agreed. They both did such beautiful non-verbal work there. I saw the moment Jughead realized his dad was lying. And FP breaking down after he left gutted me. I'm a sucker for parents protecting their kids and had assumed early on that was what was happening. Clifford Blossom was obviously a mob boss, given that FP had hard evidence he was the real murderer yet was still willing to take the fall to protect his son from Glifford's henchmen.

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

We do know that Jason was preferred and it is implied that this is a good part of why she is unpredictable, vindictive, etc. We don't know anything much about Jason as a person. Was he a centered individual who used the unconditional love given to him over his sister to become something completely other than she is, and would this have been obvious to 'the board', which we saw talking of who would take over the business at the soiree with Archie present? Or are they assuming that youth sports will make a man who understands how to behave in the boardroom in the future, which believe me a lot of people do believe in (the NFL not withstanding). 

It is possible that the contigent of the board so concerned were mob contacts and that the Blossom fortunes depend on that at this time, so if they see the Blossoms as a bad bet Cliff feared they would pull their business and put it somewhere else. 

I think we can infer a bit about Jason as a person - Cheryl said at the funeral that he always insisted on having a joint birthday party because he didn't want her to know that nobody would come to hers (or something like that).

 

What I don't understand about Clifford kidnapping Jason is how exactly it worked with Jason and Cheryl's plan to help him run away. If Clifford didn't know about this and assumed Jason drowned like everyone else, why would he have gone looking for him to have him kidnapped?

[PeekaBoo]

OMG, what a great episode!!!

WHile I wasn't surprised that Clifford was the actual murderer I am still intrigued by everything that happened behind the scenes and between the time Jason died and he got found. Why was he tortured by Mustang? Why was he killed by his dad? Why the Serpents? I have to watch the episode again but I didn't get why they filmed the whole murder, did someone other than FP and Joaquin know about the filming? Was it only to have their hands clean? Did FP really freeze the body? What did he lie about?!?! There are so many questions that I hope they'll answer some...

Other than that, the entire episode was full of suspense!  A big shout out to betty for sticking by her man, try to find out the truth with her super sleuthing qualities! You can clearly see she has her mother's wits but she actually seems to have the "goodness" that her mother soo lacks! And the Coopers actually being related to the Blossoms?!?! OMG! Of all the secrets, I didn't expect that one! It shows promise for season 2! I love the fact that thte Blossoms just shrugged it off (but I mean still, 3-4 generations back, not too much of a scandal!).

I got a bit annoyed at Fred for being such a jerk. He's willing to drop the Joneses just to protect his son... I know he's worried about his kid and all but bahh... At least you have to give creds to Mary, at least she tried to do something.

What I'm getting mostly disappointed with was the parents. Ok, we know Clifford and FP are guilty for a few things but the rest have their own dirty little secrets and they all seemed directly or indirectly involved in everything that's happening... For a minute Hermione looked pretty damn guilty of something and are we to assume that Mustang did get the money from HL or was he also set up by Clifford?

As for jughead, great acting. Teared up when he talked to FP in jail. He should've taken that damn bus to florida and not look back! I've said it before! God, please give him a lesser story, make him go back to the shadows and brood there for a while without the drama... One of the biggest let downs was when he called his mom and she didn't want him to come to toledo? What!?! Who says such a thing! My guess is that the mother left him to fend for himself in the first place, giving him no choice than to stay with the dad before running off... I'm wondering whether she fears he'll end up like his dad and she can't take it anymore? Could that be a "tv teen drama" reason?!? Despite all the shit he's getting thrown at him, it's amazing to see how strong he is when he -still- raises up from all the let downs and keeps functioning, on whatever level... HE still manages to come to school and apologize to Cheryl, he still manages to talk to his friends despite what they did...

Looking forward to the finale, what more can possibly happen?!?!? It will be nice to see if  Dark Betty rises again, see what type of destruction she can make!! Crossing fingers with someone mentioning Sabrina....

Hey moderators--- make a thread about season 2 predictions!!! Would like to share and read what people think might happen next season!!

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't think we have yet had a scene where Jason Blossom did much of anything. But we get a lot of second-hand descriptions of him as a golden boy from Jughead and the Blossoms (in addition to the more shrieky reactions from the adult Coopers).

One thing I don't get is the timeline now. Originally, people thought that on July 4, Cheryl and Jason went for a boat ride on the Sweetwater River, he fell overboard and drowned. Then when his body washed up, it became clear that Jason had actually been shot about a week later.

Was Cheryl's claim of going on a July 4 boat ride 100 percent BS? If so, why did she tell that story?

If it's basically the truth that Jason did go overboard during a July 4 boat ride, where did he go and why? How did we get to the point of being shot by Clifford? 

[starri]

16 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If so, why did she tell that story?

It was their cover story for how Jason and Polly would escape.  She was going to pretend that he drowned and the body drifted downstream.

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think we have yet had a scene where Jason Blossom did much of anything. But we get a lot of second-hand descriptions of him as a golden boy from Jughead and the Blossoms (in addition to the more shrieky reactions from the adult Coopers).

One thing I don't get is the timeline now. Originally, people thought that on July 4, Cheryl and Jason went for a boat ride on the Sweetwater River, he fell overboard and drowned. Then when his body washed up, it became clear that Jason had actually been shot about a week later.

Was Cheryl's claim of going on a July 4 boat ride 100 percent BS? If so, why did she tell that story?

If it's basically the truth that Jason did go overboard during a July 4 boat ride, where did he go and why? How did we get to the point of being shot by Clifford? 

Well, Cheryl wasn't lying about them going on a boat ride. Now, there's quite a bit of information that I'm forgetting from this first season, but I do remember that Cheryl admitted that she knew that Jason was running away and was going to fake his death, so he asked his sister to help him do it. They were going to say that he drowned, while Cheryl would know that he got out of town (I can't remember if she knew he was running away with Polly; I think she did). 

So basically timeline goes like this:

• July 3rd (day before): Clifford/Jason get into a fight. Presumably, that's when Clifford decides that he's done with his son and decides to kill him or at least to take care of him.
• July 4th: Cheryl/Jason go on the boat ride, Jason pretends to drown and he takes off toward the getaway car, where he was going to meet up with Polly. Cheryl goes along with the plan by jumping in the water and that's when Doiley found her at the shore. 
• Before Jason can get to the getaway car, he's kidnapped (FP says he kidnapped Jason, but the evidence points more toward Mustang doing it under Clifford's orders). He's taken to the basement of the Wyrm and kept there for a week until he's finally killed by his own father.

Why a week, though, I have no idea. The unclear part is why Clifford didn't just shoot him on July 4th. We don't know why Mustang was yelling at Jason while he was tied up or what he was saying to him. Presumably, Jason found his father's maple syrup and drugs business and confronted him and maybe threatened to go to the police. But that question hasn't been answered yet. Clifford's dead now too, so who knows if the answer is going to be in the finale or if it will carry into next season. 

[Mabinogia]

Maybe Clifford didn't really want to kill his son and was hoping he could "beat some sense into him". So, he finds out Jason is going to play dead, has Mustang kidnap him and keep him tied up. He maybe has Mustang rough him up a bit, threaten him, "tell anyone about the drugs and you die (or Polly more likely)." It doesn't work so after a week Clifford realizes he has to kill his son. He maybe tried to reason with him, it didn't work, so bye bye Silent Jason. It would be ironic that Clifford was afraid Jason was going to talk since...well...Jason hasn't said a word since this show started. hahahaha

[Chicago Redshirt]

I guess I'm hoping the finale fleshes some of these things out. 

How/why did Jason/Polly/Cheryl come up with the runaway plan in the first place? 

I think we were told that Jason got some drugs from the Serpents to finance the runaway plan. That never made sense to me because a) how would rich kid be acquainted with the Serpents in the first place b) why would he sell drugs instead of withdrawing his own money/stealing countless items around Thornhill on the sly c) how would he get the drugs sold? Now there's the intimation that the Blossoms had greater business in drug sales than we might have originally believed. So that sort of makes a little more sense.

Did FP/Mustang/Clifford know about the runaway plan, and if so, how?

When it became clear that the quasi-Romeo and Juliet plan went awry (say, by about July 6 when Jason hadn't met up with Polly), what did Cheryl do?

How much of Cheryl's accusing of people as Jason's murderer was because she actually thought those people might have been the murderer, and how much was to throw the scent off of Daddy and so forth?

How much did Penelope know about any of this?

[starri]

Is it possible that Clifford and Penelope were also related, which would make Jason and Polly's babies even more consanguineous that we thought?  Because it would seem odd that she'd be so keen on the babies being "pure Blossom" otherwise.

Also, isn't it quite possible that Great-Grandpappy Blossom and Great-Grandpappy Cooper were twins?

[Bill1978]

Were we told who physically placed the gun in FP's trailer? And why did it have to be FP that got framed?

That's the one part of the story I'm trying to get my head around. At the moment I'm assuming Cliff told Mustang to plant the gun, but why? Was it to shut Cheryl up cause she was getting too close to the truth?

[jay741982]

3 hours ago, PeekaBoo said:

OMG, what a great episode!!!

WHile I wasn't surprised that Clifford was the actual murderer I am still intrigued by everything that happened behind the scenes and between the time Jason died and he got found. Why was he tortured by Mustang? Why was he killed by his dad? Why the Serpents? I have to watch the episode again but I didn't get why they filmed the whole murder, did someone other than FP and Joaquin know about the filming? Was it only to have their hands clean? Did FP really freeze the body? What did he lie about?!?! There are so many questions that I hope they'll answer some...

Other than that, the entire episode was full of suspense!  A big shout out to betty for sticking by her man, try to find out the truth with her super sleuthing qualities! You can clearly see she has her mother's wits but she actually seems to have the "goodness" that her mother soo lacks! And the Coopers actually being related to the Blossoms?!?! OMG! Of all the secrets, I didn't expect that one! It shows promise for season 2! I love the fact that thte Blossoms just shrugged it off (but I mean still, 3-4 generations back, not too much of a scandal!).

I got a bit annoyed at Fred for being such a jerk. He's willing to drop the Joneses just to protect his son... I know he's worried about his kid and all but bahh... At least you have to give creds to Mary, at least she tried to do something.

What I'm getting mostly disappointed with was the parents. Ok, we know Clifford and FP are guilty for a few things but the rest have their own dirty little secrets and they all seemed directly or indirectly involved in everything that's happening... For a minute Hermione looked pretty damn guilty of something and are we to assume that Mustang did get the money from HL or was he also set up by Clifford?

As for jughead, great acting. Teared up when he talked to FP in jail. He should've taken that damn bus to florida and not look back! I've said it before! God, please give him a lesser story, make him go back to the shadows and brood there for a while without the drama... One of the biggest let downs was when he called his mom and she didn't want him to come to toledo? What!?! Who says such a thing! My guess is that the mother left him to fend for himself in the first place, giving him no choice than to stay with the dad before running off... I'm wondering whether she fears he'll end up like his dad and she can't take it anymore? Could that be a "tv teen drama" reason?!? Despite all the shit he's getting thrown at him, it's amazing to see how strong he is when he -still- raises up from all the let downs and keeps functioning, on whatever level... HE still manages to come to school and apologize to Cheryl, he still manages to talk to his friends despite what they did...

Looking forward to the finale, what more can possibly happen?!?!? It will be nice to see if  Dark Betty rises again, see what type of destruction she can make!! Crossing fingers with someone mentioning Sabrina....

Hey moderators--- make a thread about season 2 predictions!!! Would like to share and read what people think might happen next season!!

I made a Wish list thread. You can put your wishes for season 2 in there.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Bill1978 said:

Were we told who physically placed the gun in FP's trailer? And why did it have to be FP that got framed?

That's the one part of the story I'm trying to get my head around. At the moment I'm assuming Cliff told Mustang to plant the gun, but why? Was it to shut Cheryl up cause she was getting too close to the truth?

No, we weren't told who did it. Presumably, it was Mustang, since I don't think Clifford would change going to FP's place to plant the gun, and Mustang going over wouldn't be questioned. But we also don't know how much Mustang actually knew. Again, the show hasn't explained all that much so either we're getting the full explanation in the finale, they expect us to put the pieces together, or it's carrying over into season 2 somehow. 

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Did FP/Mustang/Clifford know about the runaway plan, and if so, how?

FP, in his confession, did say that Jason eventually told him about the runaway plan because FP realized that Jason was a Blossom and was probably asking questions about why Jason needed to sell drugs for money if he was already rich enough. I assume Jason didn't want his parents finding out about the plan, so he decided to find a way to make his own money. Mustang probably would have been told by Clifford if he hired him but I don't know if we've found out how Clifford found out about the runaway plan. Maybe he got Mustang to follow Jason and Cheryl the morning of the 4th and stumbled upon the plan. 

But the interesting part is, besides the video evidence of Mustang being in the basement and Joaquin overhearing FP/Mustang talking about the cleanup and "the rich guy" (AKA, Clifford), we don't really know the extent of Mustang's involvement and which side he was really working for (FPs or Clifford's). They only revealed who shot Jason and who torched his car, but very few details in between. 

[SeanC]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

No, we weren't told who did it. Presumably, it was Mustang, since I don't think Clifford would change going to FP's place to plant the gun, and Mustang going over wouldn't be questioned. But we also don't know how much Mustang actually knew. Again, the show hasn't explained all that much so either we're getting the full explanation in the finale, they expect us to put the pieces together, or it's carrying over into season 2 somehow. 

Since Keller remarked this episode that F.P.'s legal situation is still far from great, I expect there'll be some greater clarification about what exactly he knew and did.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Since Keller remarked this episode that F.P.'s legal situation is still far from great, I expect there'll be some greater clarification about what exactly he knew and did.

Well, Keller mentioned at the end of the episode that FP is still being charged with tampering with evidence (torching Jason's car, taking his jacket, cleaning up the crime scene), obstruction of justice, mishandling a body, and perjury but he never mentioned kidnapping, so that's why I assume Mustang did the kidnapping for Clifford and FP was only involved with giving the drugs and car to Jason, and then covering up the crime after Jason was killed. I just hoped that there would be more clarification IN the episode and now we have to wait until next episode to maybe find out the rest of the story. I assume that FP won't be sticking around in jail, so I'm wondering how he'll get off. Hopefully not the worst case scenario, which is death. I have a good feeling that FP won't be dying (at least any time soon). 

[jay741982]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, Keller mentioned at the end of the episode that FP is still being charged with tampering with evidence (torching Jason's car, taking his jacket, cleaning up the crime scene), obstruction of justice, mishandling a body, and perjury but he never mentioned kidnapping, so that's why I assume Mustang did the kidnapping for Clifford and FP was only involved with giving the drugs and car to Jason, and then covering up the crime after Jason was killed. I just hoped that there would be more clarification IN the episode and now we have to wait until next episode to maybe find out the rest of the story. I assume that FP won't be sticking around in jail, so I'm wondering how he'll get off. Hopefully not the worst case scenario, which is death. I have a good feeling that FP won't be dying (at least any time soon). 

There is a rumor that FP is gonna die but we shall see. I hope not as I enjoy the character 

[rmontro]

On 5/6/2017 at 9:12 PM, Lady Calypso said:

He eventually torches the getaway car to hide any evidence of his own involvement, but not before taking the jacket as contingency. He definitely hides the thumb drive in the lining of the pocket, so nobody would find it right away. Or, he just hid it in the regular jacket pocket and it slipped through. 

That must have been what happened, but wow what a lousy place to hide something so important.  

I also hope FP doesn't get killed, because I also enjoy his character.  He helps keep things grounded.

[starri]

Sheriff Keller also said he was being charged with perjury. When did he commit perjury?

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, starri said:

Sheriff Keller also said he was being charged with perjury. When did he commit perjury?

Well, I'm guessing perjury starts once you're being arrested or taking in for questioning. No matter the circumstances, FP lied about him murdering Jason and lied about other things. I guess that does count as perjury since he wasn't truthful about what happened. He technically gave a false confession, so that's why.

[starri]

Lying to the police isn't a crime.  And even if it was, it's not perjury because he wasn't under oath.

[Bort]

FP is being charged with obstruction. Cleaning up the crime scene, having that video that expressly solves a murder... All obstruction.

[AzureOwl]

20 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, Cheryl wasn't lying about them going on a boat ride. Now, there's quite a bit of information that I'm forgetting from this first season, but I do remember that Cheryl admitted that she knew that Jason was running away and was going to fake his death, so he asked his sister to help him do it. They were going to say that he drowned, while Cheryl would know that he got out of town (I can't remember if she knew he was running away with Polly; I think she did). 

So basically timeline goes like this:

• July 3rd (day before): Clifford/Jason get into a fight. Presumably, that's when Clifford decides that he's done with his son and decides to kill him or at least to take care of him.
• July 4th: Cheryl/Jason go on the boat ride, Jason pretends to drown and he takes off toward the getaway car, where he was going to meet up with Polly. Cheryl goes along with the plan by jumping in the water and that's when Doiley found her at the shore. 
• Before Jason can get to the getaway car, he's kidnapped (FP says he kidnapped Jason, but the evidence points more toward Mustang doing it under Clifford's orders). He's taken to the basement of the Wyrm and kept there for a week until he's finally killed by his own father.

Why a week, though, I have no idea. The unclear part is why Clifford didn't just shoot him on July 4th. We don't know why Mustang was yelling at Jason while he was tied up or what he was saying to him. Presumably, Jason found his father's maple syrup and drugs business and confronted him and maybe threatened to go to the police. But that question hasn't been answered yet. Clifford's dead now too, so who knows if the answer is going to be in the finale or if it will carry into next season. 

We don't know when Mustang (and I agree it must've been Mustang) caught up with Jason. Just because the getaway car was still in its hiding place doesn't mean that Jason didn't made it there. 

Remember that he was supposed to meet with Polly. When she didn't show up the entire plan must've gone off the rails. Presumably Jason would've gone back looking for her while at the same time trying having to avoid anyone in town seeing him. This could've gone on for days. It must've been at some point during this search that Mustang caught up with him. The fact that the Serpents never found the getaway car could explain why they were beating up Jason... to get him to reveal the location of the car and the drugs. 

3 hours ago, starri said:

Lying to the police isn't a crime.  And even if it was, it's not perjury because he wasn't under oath.

If FP gave a formal confession in sworn statement wouldn't that be considered perjury? I am no lawyer, but going by the definition in Wikipedia...

Quote

A sworn declaration (also called a sworn statement or a statement under penalty of perjury) is a document that recites facts pertinent to a legal proceeding. It is very similar to an affidavit, but unlike an affidavit, it is not witnessed and sealed by an official such as a notary public. Instead, the person making the declaration signs a separate endorsement paragraph at the end of the document, stating that the declaration is made under penalty of perjury.

This would seem to fit FP's situation. If his confession was a sworn declaration, lying in it could land him charges of perjury. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by AzureOwl

[TheLastKidPicked]

2 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I won't mind well-written obstacles if this show goes on for a few years.

And let's hope it does!

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Sonoma said:

Aside from the chemistry, their subtle expressions when Jughead looks at Betty and Betty looks at Jughead make me squee even though I'm beyond squeeing age. 

They are both great facial actors and their little looks make their relationship feel so real. It's those subtle moments between them that made me fall for the couple far more than any storyline or dialog. It's one of those "I wish someone would look at me the way Jughead looks at Betty" things.

[Snookums]

I FINALLY GOT TO WATCH THIS! They changed my schedule all around at work and I can only indulge my Riverdale fix when my husband isn't home (apparently it's somewhat silly for a forty five year old woman to become overinvolved with a bunch of sexy teenagers solving murders, WHATEVER.)

So: very good, show, in NOT dragging out the "who" of the murder, when the more intriguing question by far is "why?" Because everything in the Blossom household is so deranged that nothing makes any more or less sense than anything else--it's like watching two five year olds play Barbies and just make up some random, endless story about what they're doing, but it's being narrated by VC Andrews.

Seeing that video seemed to answer questions, but instead it raised dozens more; beyond the basic "why" of Jason's murder in the first place, there's the entire Serpent angle. Who's working for who in the drug business? FP may not have shot Jason but he knew enough to set up a presumably hidden camera and record who did, then recover the video; how did he know to do that? His coverups, like the burning of the car, only led on the various sleuthing parties instead of distracting or confounding them, was that on purpose?

And speaking of the drugs, are all the investors/board members in the maple syrup business in on this? If not, why are they so Court of Owls over who's running the company? It's maple syrup. Go invest in an app or something and expand beyond this town.

If Alice the Indignant is a former Serpent, did she know about the drug business? To what extent? She apparently had no idea that she was wed to a bitter ex-Blossom; what else doesn't she know? 

Hermione and Hiram: who's using who, and who's protecting Veronica and who's gaslighting her? ( I would ADORE Hermione turning out to be the Big Bad and Hiram went to jail to protect Ronnie!) 

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Honestly, I was with Clifford on that point.  Being third cousins isn't really that notable.

 

Me too. Third cousins is really not a big deal, genetically or otherwise. Betty's dad's seething hatred seems out of proportion even for the whole "your great great grandpappy done mine in" scenario, let alone that. The Hatfields and McCoys would be "dude, dial it back" at this point. 

It's Mrs. Blossom that was wigging out everybody with her "Ve Are Ze Master Race" routine, and that brings up another point: presumably she and the Late Mister were not brother/sister or cousins or anything, so why the hell is she so invested in this family in this weird Blood Trumps All way? Because she's really six of one/half a dozen of the other about what's more important about those babies--that they're Jason's, or that they are Blossoms.

[Snookums]

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I wonder if this is just paternalistic or if Cheryl still has hidden veins of craziness to expose. 

Cheryl is the Mother Lode of hidden veins of craziness.

[ruby24]

I wonder if the show's going to be able to resist having them all onstage at some point as the band, singing "Sugar, Sugar"- I know they did a variation of it with the Pussycats, but it just seems like it'd be way too tempting.

[PeekaBoo]

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

 

No matter how  crazy she is, she's quite clever...

I wonder if she is ready to take over the business. She knew something was up with daddy dearest... Now that he's gone,  nothing can stop her..

The previews for the next episode might prove otherwise but still...

The spider trinket on her jacket was quite symbolic... 

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, Snookums said:

Hermione and Hiram: who's using who, and who's protecting Veronica and who's gaslighting her? ( I would ADORE Hermione turning out to be the Big Bad and Hiram went to jail to protect Ronnie!)

This would make me deliriously happy. There is just something about Hermione I don't trust and we've only gotten her side of the story really, she could be the brains behind the whole operation using Hiram as a figurehead because shady mod dealings are really still a boys club.

[peachmangosteen]

I have been thinking Hermione is a actually the real Big Bad between her and Hiram for awhile now. I really want that to happen.

[jay741982]

20 hours ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

And let's hope it does!

Yes I want at least a five year plan 

19 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

They are both great facial actors and their little looks make their relationship feel so real. It's those subtle moments between them that made me fall for the couple far more than any storyline or dialog. It's one of those "I wish someone would look at me the way Jughead looks at Betty" things.

Agreed! I really want the writers to stick with the pair. I expect to have drama and for them to break up at least once but I really don't want any unnecessary relationship drama like Cheating 

[AzureOwl]

15 hours ago, Snookums said:

FP may not have shot Jason but he knew enough to set up a presumably hidden camera and record who did, then recover the video; how did he know to do that? His coverups, like the burning of the car, only led on the various sleuthing parties instead of distracting or confounding them, was that on purpose?

I just assumed that he had a security camera installed because that basement is where the Serpents conduct most of their dirty business and FP doesn't trust the rest of the gang not to "steal from the till". 

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And speaking of the drugs, are all the investors/board members in the maple syrup business in on this? If not, why are they so Court of Owls over who's running the company? It's maple syrup. Go invest in an app or something and expand beyond this town.

The fact that the board is a board of trustees instead of a board of directors may imply that the family fortune and ownership of the company is tied up in a trust. If the trust owns the company and the various branches of the family can only benefit from the proceeds, all their fortune may be tied up. 

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Me too. Third cousins is really not a big deal, genetically or otherwise. Betty's dad's seething hatred seems out of proportion even for the whole "your great great grandpappy done mine in" scenario, let alone that. The Hatfields and McCoys would be "dude, dial it back" at this point.

The problem we have is that there's several decades of developments between the death of Grandpappy Blossom and the death of Jason. We don't know what else happened in between. But it certainly was big enough of a deal for Hermionie to know all about it. For example, we know that someone slit Grandfather Blossom's throat. Was that a part of the feud?

Edited May 9, 2017 by AzureOwl
Formatting

[MarkHB]

15 hours ago, Snookums said:

And speaking of the drugs, are all the investors/board members in the maple syrup business in on this? If not, why are they so Court of Owls over who's running the company?

 

27 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

The fact that the board is a board of trustees instead of a board of directors may imply that the family fortune and ownership of the company is tied up in a trust. If the trust owns the company and the various branches of the family can only benefit from the proceeds, all their fortune may be tied up. 

Yeah, I've been thinking that it's a closely-held, family-owned company, and even when those are large there can be all sorts of petty intrigues and such (see also: Market Basket).

[queenanne]

On 5/6/2017 at 10:07 AM, Affogato said:

The board thinks Cheryl is unsuitable as the heir to the business and Cliff hoped that Archie standing next to her, presumably the one making the decisions, would make things more palatable.

I wonder if this is just paternalistic or if Cheryl still has hidden veins of craziness to expose. 

To me, that was the strongest evidence that someday someone will uncover that *Archie* is related to the Blossoms; because otherwise, how random.

Speaking of, how bananas that Mr. Blossom murdered Jason.  I was agog at that little plot development, having thought the "cousin reveal" was going to be the liveliest thing we saw all night (though I agree, I'm not particularly scandalized by third cousins romancing each other).  

I thought the best and most realistically written part was where Kevin and Joaquin just dishonestly ran and didn't wait to encounter the sheriff, lol.  I have never liked Madchen Amick, but the writers are writing to her strengths.  Also glad they got rid of the weird dynamic where I believed that Betty's parents outright hated each other especially because they seem determined to keep Hal in the picture (for the record, I'm fine with pure unadulterated loathing if they're going to (a) tell us he's actual evil (b) shunt him offsides).

Aside:  I love how everyone, especially the girls, run around skimpily dressed in the snow without coats like it's no nevermind.  I mean, clearly it's fake snow but still.  It's like they're not even bothering to pretend it's real life.  Oh, and Molly Ringwald has to stand as the luckiest teenager who ever lived, because as an adult she clearly Can. Not. Act.  

[starri]

11 hours ago, queenanne said:

Oh, and Molly Ringwald has to stand as the luckiest teenager who ever lived, because as an adult she clearly Can. Not. Act.  

I think as charming and appealing as she may have been as John Hughes' Everyteen, reflection has shown us she wasn't much of an actress even back then.

[ByTor]

On 5/5/2017 at 6:48 PM, Bill1978 said:

Maybe some of the intenseness was caused by my concern that Jason was going to utter a word before dying.

That just made me laugh out loud! :)