S03.E04: Sabrosito

[Clanstarling]

On 5/2/2017 at 4:47 AM, ShadowFacts said:

A thing that rang a little false to me was the employees reaction to Gus' stirring account of what happened in Michoacan and how it was not going to happen here.  I have to think at least some of them were mentally lining up their next job (or maybe I'm just a scaredy cat).  Since when does just saying no to thugs automatically work?  They just experienced a very menacing threesome and Gus is one person who isn't always there.

I know I wouldn't have returned to work the next day, or ever.

21 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Hector told Don Eladio that Ximenez got waved through customs. This doesn't match with the first scene of Fifi, when Ximenez does get stopped. I have to believe this "glitch" was intentional and will be explained sometime down the road. 

I think Hector lied just a bit to make his operation sound smooth and efficient. Not so much a glitch as a character note, imo.

21 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Hopefully, in a few weeks, our minds will be reprogrammed to think that they were supposed to look that old in 2002 or 2003.

Mine already is. Unless I look at pictures of the old show, I wouldn't be able to tell you if they look older.

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I didn't know that, it's interesting.  I was wondering about his Spanish, it was certainly different than Eladio's, but I was attributing it to maybe they were from different regions of Mexico.  It makes sense to know he is a non-native speaker.  I was glad he wasn't speaking ultra-fast because I was trying to understand without subtitles. 

I have a vague recollection that Eladio (maybe) and Gus were from somewhere in South America. So their accents would be different.

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

None of which changes anything I said.  Quite sure I understand the issues of guardianships and conservatorships rather thoroughly.

Actually, Howard would be exposing himself to tremendous liability if he were to inappropriately compensate Chuck for his share of the firm while acting as his conservator.   It's potentially much more of a burden to have that kind of fiduciary relationship.  Of course one already exists by virtue of being partners in the firm together, but the liability would go up tremendously were he also conservator.

Agreed. I was appointed my father's guardian and conservator. The conservator role was a huge burden. I had to keep records of every expense, and send reports to the courts on a regular basis.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding the timeline, I thought that Gus' professionally packaged money delivery and LPH t-shirt was what tipped Hector that Gus was behind his supply line being cut off. Even if that happened earlier, he knows of Gus' activities and that Gus surely hates him.  As to being careless and cocky in the restaurant scene, Hector is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.  But then none of them are as smart as they think they are.  They all end up dead by law enforcement or each other, even the brilliant Gus, Mike and Heisenberg.  They all seem to think they're going to avoid the fate of the ones that they kill off.  Only Jesse managed that, with a little help from Walter. 

I think the opening scene at DonEladio's took place several years before the BCS timeline.  On the Insider Podcast they placed it at around 1999.  Even if he had suspected Gus, it was idiotic to make a public scene like that.  Hector knows where Gus works and lives.  He could intimidate he discreetly and privately.  

Sure, Gus, Mike and Walt all end up dead, but Walt killed all three of them.  If Hank hadn't beaten down Jesse, causing Walt to scheme to get Gale fired and replaced with Jesse to save Hank's career, Gus, Mike and Walt probably could have gone on making huge amounts of money, until the cancer finally got Walt.

They might have gotten caught, eventually.  But there is a big difference between getting caught due to one mistake, some bad luck, or a particularly brilliant and tenacious DEA agent having a hunch.  It is quite another to tempt fate, by making a public scene the way Hector did, when you already have the DEA looking closely at you.   Dealing drugs is an inherently, risky business, but Gus does everything possible to minimize the risk of being caught.  Hector is practically begging to get caught.  

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I know I wouldn't have returned to work the next day, or ever.

I think Hector lied just a bit to make his operation sound smooth and efficient. Not so much a glitch as a character note, imo.

Mine already is. Unless I look at pictures of the old show, I wouldn't be able to tell you if they look older.

I have a vague recollection that Eladio (maybe) and Gus were from somewhere in South America. So their accents would be different.

Agreed. I was appointed my father's guardian and conservator. The conservator role was a huge burden. I had to keep records of every expense, and send reports to the courts on a regular basis.

Gus is from Chile, where he had apparently been a powerful man in the Pinochet regime.  In a BB flashback that took place in the late 1980s, Hector, in a phone conversation (I think with Bolsa) mockingly refers to Gus as the "Grand Generalissimo".  When Hank is investigating Fring he can find no record of a Gustavo Fring in Chile, suggesting Gustavo Fring is not his real name.

I believe Eladio is Mexican.   I don't know that they have ever explicitly stated this, but he lives in Mexico and runs an Mexican cartel.  In BB "Hermanos", Eladio tells Gus (in Spanish) that "We Mexicans like a good hard kick." when discussing Gus's chicken.  

Edited May 3, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Lyle is such a gringo in the midst of a cartel. 

Lyle is me.  Only I wouldn't have asked Gus if I should call someone, I would have just gone straight out to my car and called the police, thinking I was saving my boss from robbery or worse.

I was surprised none of the frightened customers took their food with them.  I would have.  Fear doesn't necessarily override hunger with me.

[ShadowFacts]

29 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They might have gotten caught, eventually.  But there is a big difference between getting caught due to one mistake, some bad luck, or a particularly brilliant and tenacious DEA agent having a hunch.  It is quite another to tempt fate, by making a public scene the way Hector did, when you already have the DEA looking closely at you.   Dealing drugs is an inherently, risky business, but Gus does everything possible to minimize the risk of being caught.  Hector is practically begging to get caught.  

His ice cream place has been busted, I'm sure Nacho and the gang know how to lose a tail.   I know what you're saying, I also said Hector is not the sharpest knife.  But being careful is no guarantee of anything in the cut throat drug world.  In the bigger picture, all of the drug gangs got wiped out, one after another, in prison, outside of prison, I can't even remember all their names/origins.  Lydia's original group, the neo-Nazis, Eladio, Fring et al.  It's what they do with competition.  Walt would have met the same fate as all the rest had he not had cancer.  Jesse unraveled after the Drew Sharp murder, Mike wanted to be done with it, Walt betrayed Jesse, and it all fell apart.  I'm going too far into BB territory, but to bring it back, Hector is starting to unravel here through his rivalry with Gus and we'll have to see how he ends up incapacitated. 

[attica]

11 hours ago, Arkay said:

If I were Kim, I would have wanted to immediately summon the DA into the hallway to show her the variability that is Chuck.

That wouldn't matter for the DA's case at hand, though. Remember, Chuck had witnesses! Even if he's shown up as unreliable, the two witnesses back up his claims. So Kim was right to keep her powder dry. Now, when we get to the Bar hearing, that's another matter.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

His ice cream place has been busted, I'm sure Nacho and the gang know how to lose a tail.   I know what you're saying, I also said Hector is not the sharpest knife.  But being careful is no guarantee of anything in the cut throat drug world.  In the bigger picture, all of the drug gangs got wiped out, one after another, in prison, outside of prison, I can't even remember all their names/origins.  Lydia's original group, the neo-Nazis, Eladio, Fring et al.  It's what they do with competition.  Walt would have met the same fate as all the rest had he not had cancer.  Jesse unraveled after the Drew Sharp murder, Mike wanted to be done with it, Walt betrayed Jesse, and it all fell apart.  I'm going too far into BB territory, but to bring it back, Hector is starting to unravel here through his rivalry with Gus and we'll have to see how he ends up incapacitated. 

Hector has always been reckless.  25 years earlier he urinated in Don Eladio's pool in front of Bolsa, Gus and Max.  

I am not saying that being careful is a guarantee of not getting caught, but it makes no sense to go out of your way to put yourself on law enforcement radar.  

It is not so much about being followed to LPH.  What if an employee or customer calls the police.  When the police arrive and find Hector, who must be a drug suspect already, trying to intimidate the owner of LPH, the DEA would start to look into LPH.  If Hector planned to use LPH as his mule, why bring DEA attention to it?

11 hours ago, Arkay said:

When the DA held this PPD conference with Chuck, Howard, Kim and Jimmy, she was very solicitous about Chuck's state of mind and wellbeing regarding electricity and cell phones. Howard first came in and shut all the lights, then the DA asked if everything was suitable for Chuck's needs, and to let her know if Chuck became uncomfortable  But when Howard and Chuck are talking to Kim in the hallway, immediately after the conference after Jimmy has stomped off, the three of them stood in the fluorescently lit hallway while they discussed the copy of the tape. Chuck didn't seem to be in "pain," didn't try to cover himself up,and only briefly glanced up at the lights when he was leaving. This was all just moments after the lights-out meeting.  What does this mean? If I were Kim, I would have wanted to immediately summon the DA into the hallway to show her the variability that is Chuck.

I think Jimmy and Kim plan to demonstrate Chuck's insanity in a more dramatic and public way at the ethics hearing.  They didn't have any particular reason to try to influence the DA at that point.  They were making a settlement to keep Jimmy out of jail.  The real battle will be at the ethics hearing, which I don't believe the DA will participate in.  As long as Jimmy stays out of trouble for a year, their business with the DA is more or less concluded. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 5/1/2017 at 11:09 PM, AuntiePam said:

Why didn't Kim and Jimmy stick with "destroyed" in the first place? 

The bar hearing could get interesting, when it comes out that there's a copy of the tape.

Judge to Chuck:  Why did you make a copy of the tape? 

Chuck:  Because I knew Jimmy would try to destroy it. 

Judge:  But how would Jimmy even know the tape existed? 

Chuck:  Um, because I told Ernie.

Judge:  Why did you do that, if you were worried about keeping it safe? 

Chuck:  I got nuthin'.

I love that scenario, but I fear that all Chuck would have to say to the first question is, "The material was so important, I didn't want to risk losing the tape or having it eaten by my machine." And I would buy that if I were the judge, because I've duplicated materials for much the same reasons without thinking that my sibling was going to break into my house and steal them.

[scenario]

Is Jimmy or Slippin' Jimmy running the defense.

Jimmy has enough evidence to make Chuck look like a seriously mentally ill person who made a mistake and whose paranoia led him to invent a conspiracy theory to blame Jimmy for his mistake. 

But will Slippin' Jimmy rule and make something else up to drive the final nail in Chucks career? Alter the tape maybe? 

[benteen]

Seeing Mike and Chuck interact, even if Mike was working a cover, was fascinating and I can only imagine that characters like Chuck, Howard and Kim would think of the world that Mike and Gus and Hector are wrapped up in or if they'll ever truly see it.

Hector is the worst kind of criminal to deal with, someone who truly doesn't care what his actions look like.  Eladio said that Hector doesn't give you a second chance, meaning you're constantly on edge.

Edited May 3, 2017 by benteen

[PeterPirate]

The preview for the next episode made it look like it was going to be more intense than the usual slow-burn. I'm really looking forward to it.

[J-Man]

I wonder if they chose ice cream for a business because "helado" is very similar to "Eladio."

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, scenario said:

Is Jimmy or Slippin' Jimmy running the defense.

Jimmy has enough evidence to make Chuck look like a seriously mentally ill person who made a mistake and whose paranoia led him to invent a conspiracy theory to blame Jimmy for his mistake. 

But will Slippin' Jimmy rule and make something else up to drive the final nail in Chucks career? Alter the tape maybe? 

I think altering the tape would be foolish and could be fairly easily detected, especially with old cassette tapes.  

I think the significance of the tape will be that Chuck will introduce it and have it played, as a backdoor way of showing the ethics board that more went on than Jimmy breaking down and door, destroying a tape and making some threats, that didn't seem genuine, during a family squabble.  Chuck wants the board to know that Jimmy stole, doctored and replaced the documents to sabotage him and Mesa Verde.  They would probably give Jimmy a slap on the wrist over the family squabble, but would disbar him for the Mesa Verde document scam.  

I expect this to backfire on Chuck when Jimmy uses a defense that he only told Chuck he altered the documents, because he was deeply concerned about his profoundly, mentally ill brother and would say anything to calm him down and make him feel better.  He will then introduce evidence about all he did to care for Chuck, the photos that show the state of Chuck's house and probably testimony from people like the ER doctor, the police who tasered him, Ernie and possibly his ex-wife about how crazy Chuck is.  

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think altering the tape would be foolish and could be fairly easily detected, especially with old cassette tapes.  

I think the significance of the tape will be that Chuck will introduce it and have it played, as a backdoor way of showing the ethics board that more went on than Jimmy breaking down and door, destroying a tape and making some threats, that didn't seem genuine, during a family squabble.  Chuck wants the board to know that Jimmy stole, doctored and replaced the documents to sabotage him and Mesa Verde.  They would probably give Jimmy a slap on the wrist over the family squabble, but would disbar him for the Mesa Verde document scam.  

I expect this to backfire on Chuck when Jimmy uses a defense that he only told Chuck he altered the documents, because he was deeply concerned about his profoundly, mentally ill brother and would say anything to calm him down and make him feel better.  He will then introduce evidence about all he did to care for Chuck, the photos that show the state of Chuck's house and probably testimony from people like the ER doctor, the police who tasered him, Ernie and possibly his ex-wife about how crazy Chuck is.  

It wouldn't be as noticeable if he just erased the part where he said, "I did it for Kim."

[Milburn Stone]

I keep thinking that BCS's Hector is played by someone other than Mark Margolis. He just doesn't look like the same actor to me. (Close, but no cigar.) I realize I'm wrong! I guess it's just a matter of their trying to make an actor who actually is older than he was before look like he's younger than he was before, which is no mean feat, and works better with some actors than others.

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, benteen said:

Seeing Mike and Chuck interact, even if Mike was working a cover, was fascinating and I can only imagine that characters like Chuck, Howard and Kim would think of the world that Mike and Gus and Hector are wrapped up in or if they'll ever truly see it.

Hector is the worst kind of criminal to deal with, someone who truly doesn't care what his actions look like.  Eladio said that Hector doesn't give you a second chance, meaning you're constantly on edge.

He uses fear the way lots of criminals do, and counts on the fact that the "little people" won't be a bother because of the mentality of you don't squeal, you don't get hurt.  This is just a little bit before the days of everyone using their cell phone to record, and no one would do that anyway right in the face of the goons.  It would have to be at a distance and most of them just want the hell out.   Plus, what are the cops going to get him for, loitering in a chicken place?  Gus would have waved them off or given them a meal. 

[Tikichick]

Watching the scenes with Don Eladio and/or Hector remind me just how much both characters stress me out, and how much stress Gus brought on eventually as well.  Really well done, but I think that was one of the big reasons I was ready to let BB go.  The intensity of it all just got to me.  I've become much more content in the twisting fun house world of Conniving and Cuckoo Chuck, Slippin' Jimmy, Sharpeyed Kim and Howdy Partner Howard.

[Lorimac]

Thank you for a really well written review,

[qtpye]

22 hours ago, monakane said:

Gus should be teaching MBA courses at Wharton.  He's a natural CEO.  I'm in HR and love to watch how he handles his "employees" legitimate and otherwise (except for the "Box Cutter" episode of BB).  Recruiting a talented employee can be difficult, but Gus handled Mike like a champ.

It really is a contrast to Walter White.  

Quote

Spoiler

Walter never cared to figure out what makes people tick, unless it affected him in some way.  Gus is what Walter wanted to be, but failed because he does not understand people in the same manner.  Also, very little of Gus's enterprise is motivated by ego.  Gus is one of the few criminals who probably would have been an amazing success on the right side of the law as well.

 

.

22 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Excellent, excellent theory! And I wouldn't be surprised at all. Howard has become a favorite for me to watch, because I never really know just what his angle is. But I haven't forgotten how strongly Jimmy felt that Howard wanted to do everything possible to avoid buying Chuck out. And all the chicanery that Chuck has been up to lately seems like something Howard would want to avoid. Unless.....

Howard is really the wild card.  I have a feeling he is sick of being Chuck's butt monkey and would be more then happy to get Chuck out of his hair.

22 hours ago, benteen said:

Perfect assessment of Hector.  You can get a lot of mileage by ruling from fear but if those who follow you don't care about you in some way, that is likely going to bite you in the ass eventually. 

Hector is nasty and ugly and probably underestimates Gus's mild mannerisms as "weak".

Edited May 3, 2017 by qtpye

[WalterWhiteWalker]

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I didn't know that, it's interesting.  I was wondering about his Spanish, it was certainly different than Eladio's, but I was attributing it to maybe they were from different regions of Mexico.  It makes sense to know he is a non-native speaker.  I was glad he wasn't speaking ultra-fast because I was trying to understand without subtitles. 

That's how I knew he wasn't a native speaker - because I can understand him without subtitles.  I can't follow most native speakers anymore, but English speakers speaking Spanish are fine!

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Watching the scenes with Don Eladio and/or Hector remind me just how much both characters stress me out, and how much stress Gus brought on eventually as well.  Really well done, but I think that was one of the big reasons I was ready to let BB go.  The intensity of it all just got to me.  I've become much more content in the twisting fun house world of Conniving and Cuckoo Chuck, Slippin' Jimmy, Sharpeyed Kim and Howdy Partner Howard.

So true for me, too.  There was a lot of BB I could not actually watch.  I have really appreciated the relative lack of brutality and I hope it stays that way, but it probably won't if Gus and Hector and Tuco are featured prominently. 

I forgot to mention earlier that in the pool scene I thought I heard wind chimes that made me think of Hector's bell.

[Tikichick]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding the timeline, I thought that Gus' professionally packaged money delivery and LPH t-shirt was what tipped Hector that Gus was behind his supply line being cut off. Even if that happened earlier, he knows of Gus' activities and that Gus surely hates him.  As to being careless and cocky in the restaurant scene, Hector is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.  But then none of them are as smart as they think they are.  They all end up dead by law enforcement or each other, even the brilliant Gus, Mike and Heisenberg.  They all seem to think they're going to avoid the fate of the ones that they kill off.  Only Jesse managed that, with a little help from Walter. 

Maybe you're right.  I thought the LPH shirt was out of character for Gus, who likes to play most everything absolutely close to the vest.

As far as Hector's behavior not being very smart, I think Hector knows in many situations he's not the smartest one -- and I'd say Gus completely unnerves him in that regard.  That's why I think Hector behaves the way that he does in most situations, particularly when Gus is involved.  He thinks if he swings his big stick around it will keep Gus at bay.

I don't think he credits Gus for cutting off his supply line or he would have been more drastic.  I think he acted the way he did because he thought Gus knew of his troubles and capitalized on the moment to show him up.  I think Hector thought he could cow Gus simply by menace, co opt his delivery operation and make sure he's top dog.

[scenario]

36 minutes ago, WalterWhiteWalker said:

That's how I knew he wasn't a native speaker - because I can understand him without subtitles.  I can't follow most native speakers anymore, but English speakers speaking Spanish are fine!

I wonder how obvious he is to native speakers. I would guess its something like the age situation. A native Spanish speaker would probably know instantly by his accent that he's a native English speaker but let it slide because it was cool that the show actually has people who were from Spanish speaking countries actually speaking Spanish in a show made to show in America. An average English speaking American either wouldn't notice or notice that he spoke differently from the others but not understand the reason. 

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Howard is really the wild card.  I have a feeling he is sick of being Chuck's butt monkey and would be more then happy to get Chuck out of his hair.

 

I really wonder what Howard has suffered chained to Chuck for so long?  I have a hunch he has a healthy dose of empathy for Jimmy's wounds.

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I really wonder what Howard has suffered chained to Chuck for so long?  I have a hunch he has a healthy dose of empathy for Jimmy's wounds.

I think he also has a grudging respect for Jimmy's scrappiness.  If Chuck somehow loses his standing in the firm (I have no idea how they will get rid of him without buying out his partnership) and Jimmy, it will be nearly impossible to maintain his weird lifestyle.

Edited May 3, 2017 by qtpye

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

I think he also has a weird respect for Jimmy's scrappiness.  If Chuck somehow loses his standing in the firm (I have no idea how they will get rid of him without buying out his partnership) and Jimmy, it will be nearly impossible to maintain his weird lifestyle.

I suppose they could force him out of the firm, which would entail buying him out.  Depending on the hijinks that ensue, that may be exactly what's about to happen.  At that point Chuck has no one from the firm catering to him, nor would there be anyone to undertake hiring someone to do his errands aside from Chuck himself.  Did Chuck hire the handyman himself, or did an underling at the firm get tasked with finding the appropriate firm to dispatch a workman and comply with Chuck's rules?  I get the impression Chuck didn't pick up a phone and seek out the contractor himself.  Finding an errand runner will be more difficult. 

Good thing Chuck made sure he'll get compensation for the cassette tape.  I suspect he's gonna need every last dime.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I suppose they could force him out of the firm, which would entail buying him out.  Depending on the hijinks that ensue, that may be exactly what's about to happen.  At that point Chuck has no one from the firm catering to him, nor would there be anyone to undertake hiring someone to do his errands aside from Chuck himself.  Did Chuck hire the handyman himself, or did an underling at the firm get tasked with finding the appropriate firm to dispatch a workman and comply with Chuck's rules?  I get the impression Chuck didn't pick up a phone and seek out the contractor himself.  Finding an errand runner will be more difficult. 

Good thing Chuck made sure he'll get compensation for the cassette tape.  I suspect he's gonna need every last dime.

From episode 1, Jimmy was trying to force HHM to buyout Chuck, but Hamlin clearly did not want this, probably due to the financial burden of coming up with the cash.  Jimmy threw out $17 million (plus 2 danishes) as the amount to buy out Chuck, but said the number could change once the accountants poked around.

I'm sure Chuck didn't pick up an electromagnetically toxic telephone to call around for estimates to repair the door.  Some poor underling from HHM was probably given that task.  I wonder if he will be getting a new Ernesto?

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

From episode 1, Jimmy was trying to force HHM to buyout Chuck, but Hamlin clearly did not want this, probably due to the financial burden of coming up with the cash.  Jimmy threw out $17 million (plus 2 danishes) as the amount to buy out Chuck, but said the number could change once the accountants poked around.

I'm sure Chuck didn't pick up an electromagnetically toxic telephone to call around for estimates to repair the door.  Some poor underling from HHM was probably given that task.  I wonder if he will be getting a new Ernesto?

Values of firms are not set in stone.  HHM had and lost a major client, MV.  Jimmy pegged a lot of HHM's value on Chuck's reputation and connections, both of which may be about to suffer some dings and bruises.  HHM can also consider charging Chuck for all of the personal services he received from HHM employees.

I can hear HHM clients calling for their files to be forwarded to new counsel and the value of the firm dropping as I type.  Tax implications kick in with a buyout as well.  All of that doesn't point to a very rosy financial picture for Chuck going forward.

Yes, I said I didn't think Chuck retained a handyman under his own efforts.  Which is why I think the idea of him obtaining a new errand person not under the auspices of HHM is going to be very daunting.

[Bryce Lynch]

16 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Values of firms are not set in stone.  HHM had and lost a major client, MV.  Jimmy pegged a lot of HHM's value on Chuck's reputation and connections, both of which may be about to suffer some dings and bruises.  HHM can also consider charging Chuck for all of the personal services he received from HHM employees.

I can hear HHM clients calling for their files to be forwarded to new counsel and the value of the firm dropping as I type.  Tax implications kick in with a buyout as well.  All of that doesn't point to a very rosy financial picture for Chuck going forward.

Yes, I said I didn't think Chuck retained a handyman under his own efforts.  Which is why I think the idea of him obtaining a new errand person not under the auspices of HHM is going to be very daunting.

The point is, buying out Chuck seemed to be something Howard was either unwilling or unable to do.  

If Jimmy's $17 million, 2 danish price was anywhere near the ballpark, or even if it were 2 or 3 times what Chuck's share was really worth, Chuck would have plenty of cash to live on.   The firm only started providing Ernie's services months ago, so if they took that out of Chuck's payout it would only reduce it by tens of thousands of dollars.  

 Howard and the other partners would be the ones who might face a financial crisis, if Chuck cashes out, not Chuck.  

This is why I think Howard might be plotting to get Chuck committed or have something else happen to Chuck that will both keep him out his ringleted, Sassafras Glow hair, and keep him from cashing out of the firm.  Chuck flips out at the hearing, Howard, who Chuck has made the equivalent of next of kin, because he doesn't trust Jimmy, has him committed and as his conservator determines that it would be in Chuck's best financial interest to maintain his investment in HHMs thriving law firm, which will only continue to grow in value. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I keep thinking that BCS's Hector is played by someone other than Mark Margolis. He just doesn't look like the same actor to me. (Close, but no cigar.) I realize I'm wrong! I guess it's just a matter of their trying to make an actor who actually is older than he was before look like he's younger than he was before, which is no mean feat, and works better with some actors than others.

I think he has some removable bridge work, possibly an entire upper plate, and can change his "age" by how much he takes out. 

[scenario]

14 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The point is, buying out Chuck seemed to be something Howard was either unwilling or unable to do.  

If Jimmy's $17 million, 2 danish price was anywhere near the ballpark, or even if it were 2 or 3 times what Chuck's share was really worth, Chuck would have plenty of cash to live on.   The firm only started providing Ernie's services months ago, so if they took that out of Chuck's payout it would only reduce it by tens of thousands of dollars.  

 Howard and the other partners would be the ones who might face a financial crisis, if Chuck cashes out, not Chuck.  

This is why I think Howard might be plotting to get Chuck committed or have something else happen to Chuck that will both keep him out his ringleted, Sassafras Glow hair, and keep him from cashing out of the firm.  Chuck flips out at the hearing, Howard, who Chuck has made the equivalent of next of kin, because he doesn't trust Jimmy, has him committed and as his conservator determines that it would be in Chuck's best financial interest to maintain his investment in HHMs thriving law firm, which will only continue to grow in value. 

Or they could buy him out over a long time frame with much of the money going towards the hospital.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, scenario said:

I wonder how obvious he is to native speakers. I would guess its something like the age situation. A native Spanish speaker would probably know instantly by his accent that he's a native English speaker but let it slide because it was cool that the show actually has people who were from Spanish speaking countries actually speaking Spanish in a show made to show in America. An average English speaking American either wouldn't notice or notice that he spoke differently from the others but not understand the reason. 

Just to clarify, I wasn't being critical of the actor at all.  I just noticed the difference, then when someone else mentioned he wasn't a native speaker, I commented that now that made sense to me.  My husband's family is Puerto Rican and their Spanish is noticeably different from Mexicans and other Central Americans I encounter.  I think the actor did a fine job, better than my American Spanish sounds I'm sure. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

17 hours ago, J-Man said:

In "Breaking Bad," I believe there were very few examples of Hector speaking (only in flashbacks, because he was already incapacitated and using the bell when we first met him, right?) And Mark Margolis is not a Spanish speaker, so I thought it might be a challenge for him to have a lot of dialog in Spanish, but I think he acquitted himself fairly well -- at least better than when he attempted to portray a native-born Greek speaker in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2."

I didn't know that, it's interesting.  I was wondering about his Spanish, it was certainly different than Eladio's, but I was attributing it to maybe they were from different regions of Mexico.  It makes sense to know he is a non-native speaker.  I was glad he wasn't speaking ultra-fast because I was trying to understand without subtitles. 

 

15 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

1 hour ago, scenario said:

I wonder how obvious he is to native speakers. I would guess its something like the age situation. A native Spanish speaker would probably know instantly by his accent that he's a native English speaker but let it slide because it was cool that the show actually has people who were from Spanish speaking countries actually speaking Spanish in a show made to show in America. An average English speaking American either wouldn't notice or notice that he spoke differently from the others but not understand the reason. 

Just to clarify, I wasn't being critical of the actor at all.  I just noticed the difference, then when someone else mentioned he wasn't a native speaker, I commented that now that made sense to me.  My husband's family is Puerto Rican and their Spanish is noticeably different from Mexicans and other Central Americans I encounter.  I think the actor did a fine job, better than my American Spanish sounds I'm sure. 

Mark Margolis definitely does not have a Hispanic background.  His family is originally from Eastern Europe.  That doesn't mean he couldn't have acquired Spanish fluency, but he's not a native speaker. Steven Bauer was born in Cuba.

[Tikichick]

43 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The point is, buying out Chuck seemed to be something Howard was either unwilling or unable to do.  

If Jimmy's $17 million, 2 danish price was anywhere near the ballpark, or even if it were 2 or 3 times what Chuck's share was really worth, Chuck would have plenty of cash to live on.   The firm only started providing Ernie's services months ago, so if they took that out of Chuck's payout it would only reduce it by tens of thousands of dollars.  

 Howard and the other partners would be the ones who might face a financial crisis, if Chuck cashes out, not Chuck.  

This is why I think Howard might be plotting to get Chuck committed or have something else happen to Chuck that will both keep him out his ringleted, Sassafras Glow hair, and keep him from cashing out of the firm.  Chuck flips out at the hearing, Howard, who Chuck has made the equivalent of next of kin, because he doesn't trust Jimmy, has him committed and as his conservator determines that it would be in Chuck's best financial interest to maintain his investment in HHMs thriving law firm, which will only continue to grow in value. 

What I'm suggesting is that it's possible they could reduce the firm's value on paper by quite a lot, with lots of supporting evidence, which would reduce Chuck's payout tremendously, potentially right at a point where he was unable to bring in dollars and begin paying out quite a lot for health insurance, health expenses, living expenses and potentially private home support staff.   He'd also probably lose a lot to taxes right off the bat.  It's not out of the realm of reality that Chuck could hurt financially quickly.

Howard might have been reluctant when Jimmy was pushing for the buyout because A, it would have been at a very high value point and B, it might have diminished the remaining value of the firm further if a lot of their clients believed in Chuck's services rather than the overall HHM services.  If it comes out that Chuck has been in cloud cuckoo land for some time it's possible Howard can convince some of those clients that he has been overseeing their interests along with his trusty staff and can continue to do so just fine without Chuck, as he wasn't handling their matters for quite some time anyway.

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Just to clarify, I wasn't being critical of the actor at all.  I just noticed the difference, then when someone else mentioned he wasn't a native speaker, I commented that now that made sense to me.  My husband's family is Puerto Rican and their Spanish is noticeably different from Mexicans and other Central Americans I encounter.  I think the actor did a fine job, better than my American Spanish sounds I'm sure. 

I didn't take it as criticism. I just had an image in my head of someone from Mexico hearing the accent and laughing and thinking to themselves "Do they expect me to believe that guy's from Mexico?" While someone who only knows a few words of Spanish wouldn't think twice. 

I wonder if its like a movie that has John F Kennedy in it made in a Spanish speaking country. The actor who plays JFK is trying to speak English with a Boston accent as if he is from Boston but it is on top of a heavy Spanish accent. To a native of Boston, it would sound strange. A non English speaker may not notice anything. 

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

What I'm suggesting is that it's possible they could reduce the firm's value on paper by quite a lot, with lots of supporting evidence, which would reduce Chuck's payout tremendously, potentially right at a point where he was unable to bring in dollars and begin paying out quite a lot for health insurance, health expenses, living expenses and potentially private home support staff.   He'd also probably lose a lot to taxes right off the bat.  It's not out of the realm of reality that Chuck could hurt financially quickly.

Howard might have been reluctant when Jimmy was pushing for the buyout because A, it would have been at a very high value point and B, it might have diminished the remaining value of the firm further if a lot of their clients believed in Chuck's services rather than the overall HHM services.  If it comes out that Chuck has been in cloud cuckoo land for some time it's possible Howard can convince some of those clients that he has been overseeing their interests along with his trusty staff and can continue to do so just fine without Chuck, as he wasn't handling their matters for quite some time anyway.

The value of the firm is going to be determined mainly based upon gross billings, net income and the value of any assets they have, like the HHM office building, the conference table lights,  the danishes and the copyright to Hamlindigo Blue (tm), less liabilities.  It isn't like it is some sort of startup whose value is based upon patents (like Gray Matter) where valuation estimates could fluctuate wildly.  Short of out and out fraud by Hamlin and the other partners, it would be nearly impossible for them to undervalue the firm.  

The valuation of HHM would be fairly straightforward.  It would be much simpler than determining the value of A1 Car Wash.  Maybe they will bring Skyler White in to come up with a value for HHM. :)

Edited May 3, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The value of the firm is going to be determined mainly based upon gross billings, net income and the value of any assets they have (like the HHM office building, the conference table lights,  the danishes and the copyright to Halmindigo Blue (tm), less liabilities.  It isn't like it is some sort of startup whose value is based upon patents (like Gray Matter) where valuation estimates could fluctuate wildly.  Short of out and out fraud by Hamlin and the other partners, it would be nearly impossible for them to undervalue the firm.  

The valuation of HHM would be fairly straightforward.  It would be much simpler than determining the value of A1 Car Wash.  Maybe they will bring Skyler White in to come up with a value for HHM. :)

If the valuation of any business would be fairly straightforward, a law partnership would be among the last I would cite.  Especially a partnership where one of the principals has seemingly made an error that tanked a major deal for a (former) client and has been effectively unavailable for some time with the reason being untreated mental issues. 

I'll simply say I have good reason to know dissolution of businesses can get quite bloody and that law firms are far from immune.   It's far less about conference table lights and more about client lists/retention and reputation.  Chuck's situation gives Howard a huge advantage in firm valuation.

[WalterWhiteWalker]

2 hours ago, scenario said:

I wonder how obvious he is to native speakers. I would guess its something like the age situation. A native Spanish speaker would probably know instantly by his accent that he's a native English speaker but let it slide because it was cool that the show actually has people who were from Spanish speaking countries actually speaking Spanish in a show made to show in America. An average English speaking American either wouldn't notice or notice that he spoke differently from the others but not understand the reason. 

My friend from Colombia, huge BB/Narcos/BCS fan, says Giancarlo Esposito's Spanish is really bad. :)

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

If the valuation of any business would be fairly straightforward, a law partnership would be among the last I would cite.  Especially a partnership where one of the principals has seemingly made an error that tanked a major deal for a (former) client and has been effectively unavailable for some time with the reason being untreated mental issues. 

I'll simply say I have good reason to know dissolution of businesses can get quite bloody and that law firms are far from immune.   It's far less about conference table lights and more about client lists/retention and reputation.  Chuck's situation gives Howard a huge advantage in firm valuation.

There would be no advantage in Chuck's situation to HHM.  If his condition really did drastically reduce the value of the firm, then Howard and the other partners would genuinely be boned, because the firm they own two thirds of would actually be worth a fraction of what it once was.  

If Chuck's condition hadn't really negatively affected billings, they wouldn't be able to fake that.  

Assuming HHM could come up with the cash, or reach an agreement to spread out the payouts, it would be in their best interests to let Chuck quietly "retire", rather than have his insanity and the fact that the other partners misled clients by covering it up become public, which could cause a massive loss of clients.

[ShadowFacts]

Jimmy has prophesied that Chuck will die alone.  If it happens anytime soon, and the firm has a life insurance policy on him, some problems are solved. 

[Irlandesa]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone else wonder if DA Hay might wind up siding with Jimmy in the end? Or does she not appear when they go before the bar?

I don't think she goes in front of the bar.  But I do think that her switching sides to support Jimmy is less likely than her deciding that both of these guys are messed up, unethical motherfuckers.  This is a rare case where she can find Jimmy guilty and think Chuck was vindictive.  She could, in theory, decide both guys deserved to lose their licenses (not that she's making the decision.)

[Boilergal]

Between Howard, Ernie, Jimmy, Dr Cruz and now the pictures - Chuck's mental state would seem to be pretty easy to prove - not to mention anyone else at HHM or Davis and Main that had to jump through hoops when Chuck decided to venture in for a bully Jimmy meeting.  They could also throw in the neighbor that saw the tinfoil caped man steal her newspaper.  

I feel like Jimmy is going for commitment- he didn't want to do it before when Chuck was hospitalized, but I believe Jimmy has lost any empathy for Chuck and wouldn't lose any sleep over it now. 

[Dobian]

I so can't wait to find out what scheme Kim and Jimmy have devised, and how Mike's pictures play into it.  So much great about this episode, from Mike and Gus to Gus and Hector, and wasn't that the same pool where a very climactic scene played out with Gus in BB?  Loved Gus' loyal staff, and you have to hand it to him, for a drug dealing kingpin, he's a heckuva fast food franchise operator.

[Blinkoshuman]

Timeline question: where is Gus' product being made at this point, and who is making it? No super lab and no Gale yet, right?

[seasquared]

8 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think he also has a grudging respect for Jimmy's scrappiness.  If Chuck somehow loses his standing in the firm (I have no idea how they will get rid of him without buying out his partnership) and Jimmy, it will be nearly impossible to maintain his weird lifestyle.

Not sure if this has been pointed out, but if Jimmy is successful in demonstrating Chuck's mental state it is very likely HHM will be out of business.  

With all legal documents the person executing them has to be of sound mind & body, otherwise they could be invalidated. As an attorney, Chuck would have had to sign a LOT of the documents for the cases he was working on. If it's proven he was mentally incapacitated  all the documents could be void. In other words, all his cases would be in jeopardy of ever having been legally binding.  That opens the door for HUGE amounts of malpractice suits from HHM's clients... amounts that no E&O policy can or will cover. HHM goes bankrupt and the question of how to buy out Chuck is moot.

[nikolayri]

How about Kim and Howard somehow agree to swop - Mesa Verde for Chuck?

I was always thinking don Eladio's Spanish sounds weird. Since BB time.

[Tikichick]

17 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

There would be no advantage in Chuck's situation to HHM.  If his condition really did drastically reduce the value of the firm, then Howard and the other partners would genuinely be boned, because the firm they own two thirds of would actually be worth a fraction of what it once was.  

If Chuck's condition hadn't really negatively affected billings, they wouldn't be able to fake that.  

Assuming HHM could come up with the cash, or reach an agreement to spread out the payouts, it would be in their best interests to let Chuck quietly "retire", rather than have his insanity and the fact that the other partners misled clients by covering it up become public, which could cause a massive loss of clients.

It's a slam dunk that Howard and HHM are going to use the damage Chuck's condition brings to the firm as a significant piece of the valuation equation.  I've seen this type of thing argued in a court setting multiple times, including two for law practices that I can remember off the top of my head.  These have been a bit different in that they were either in guardianship/conserv cases or will and trust valuations, but it's not quite as cut and dried as you're outlining, not by a longshot.  I think Chuck has been a lynchpin/rainmaker for HHM for quite some time, with clients seeking them out based on his reputation for keen knowledge of intricate bits of laws, tax codes, etc. and meticulous eye for detail.  The fact his condition cost the firm a major client -- not one he brought them BTW and his reputation is compromised by what I suspect is about to happen undercuts the value of the firm in negotiations for valuation. 

11 hours ago, seasquared said:

Not sure if this has been pointed out, but if Jimmy is successful in demonstrating Chuck's mental state it is very likely HHM will be out of business.  

With all legal documents the person executing them has to be of sound mind & body, otherwise they could be invalidated. As an attorney, Chuck would have had to sign a LOT of the documents for the cases he was working on. If it's proven he was mentally incapacitated  all the documents could be void. In other words, all his cases would be in jeopardy of ever having been legally binding.  That opens the door for HUGE amounts of malpractice suits from HHM's clients... amounts that no E&O policy can or will cover. HHM goes bankrupt and the question of how to buy out Chuck is moot.

Possible.  I assume they dodge that bullet by proving that licensed associates were shadowing cases and things went through doc review by paralegals and other associates as well.

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, Blinkoshuman said:

Timeline question: where is Gus' product being made at this point, and who is making it? No super lab and no Gale yet, right?

Have to admit, I'm completely lost in the timeline when it comes to that.  I had assumed the infamous pool scene hadn't occurred yet, but apparently it has according to those who follow along more sharply than I do.  

[Ottis]

On 5/3/2017 at 7:48 AM, Clanstarling said:

I know I wouldn't have returned to work the next day, or ever.

Me, neither, no matter what Gus said. Life is short and those were mostly kids. There are lots of similar jobs available where scary drug dealers don't show up.

14 hours ago, Boilergal said:

I feel like Jimmy is going for commitment- he didn't want to do it before when Chuck was hospitalized, but I believe Jimmy has lost any empathy for Chuck and wouldn't lose any sleep over it now

I hear you, and I'm not quite there, yet. BCS has taken great pains to show us how Jimmy cares for Chuck, even after Chuck has done all kinds of shitty things to Jimmy. This might be the last straw, but if it is, it negates so much painstaking storytelling. I can't get there, that Jimmy has lost empathy. It isn't who we have been shown he is - even in the future scene in the mall, where he stands up and tells the kid to get a lawyer. So I keep wondering if Jimmy has something else in mind besides committing Chuck, or if he actually has no plan and Howard (or Kim, or someone else) is the key to what happens to Chuck.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Ottis

[PeterPirate]

13 hours ago, Blinkoshuman said:

Timeline question: where is Gus' product being made at this point, and who is making it? No super lab and no Gale yet, right?

I think Gus and Hector are both distributors of Don Eladio's product, and that Hector wants Gus to help him move his share of the product. When Hector refers to "his product", he means his share of Don Eladio's product.

Edited May 4, 2017 by PeterPirate