S03.E03: Sunk Costs

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Spinning off Jimmy into a separate firm to handle Sandpiper might have made sense.  But, of course, for the plot to move the way it is supposed to Jimmy needed to get fired from D&M, and how it was done was plausible to me.

As for the ad Jimmy ran:

1) It showed he was a loose canon, who couldn't be trusted to follow the rules, which probably confirmed fears they had about him coming in.

2) They pointed out that Sandpiper is just one small part of their business and that many of their big clients might not want to work with a firm that runs ambulance chaser type ads.  Jimmy gets so focused on his immediate goals, that he can miss the big picture.  

Regarding Kim and Howard.  Howard did keep Kim around.  Who knows he might have paroled her from doc review in a week or a month.  Kim quit to start her own practice and Howard handled it graciously, wishing her luck and forgiving her tuition loan.  

Even if we assume his decision to keep Kim in document review was a bad one, a single questionable personnel decision does not make someone a horrible manager.  

I agree that D & Ms behavior was credible, if dumb. That's why I wrote that I enjoyed how it was written. 

I really disagree that continuing to punish an employee, or manage her in a fashion that will be interpreted as punishment, after the employee has dumped a truckload of cash on your desk, is not indicative of having become a horrible manager. 

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

That's it! I kept searching last night to see if any posters caught this. It would fit with all the hints we were getting that another "beloved character" from BB was showing up.

So who put the bullet holes in the stop sign? Is that a "thing" in NM?

I think the boy was way too old to be Brock circa 2003 (though Kaylee Ehrmentruat seems older than she should be as well).  I think Brock was 6 when Jesse met Andrea, so he would have probably been a baby or toddler.  

It could have been meant to evoke memories of Andrea and Brock.  Andrea would be an interesting BB character to bring in. A young, single Mom with a drug problem would make a good client for Saul Goodman, though I never got the idea that Saul knew her outside of her relationship to Jesse.  

[Eulipian 5k]

1 minute ago, OoogleEyes said:

That stop sign was in Mexico, hence the word "Alto". 

As you approach the Canadian Border from New York, you'll see road signs in french, so he may still be in the USA.

And yes, the Brock sighting did seem to be the wrong age.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I agree that D & Ms behavior was credible, if dumb. That's why I wrote that I enjoyed how it was written. 

I really disagree that continuing to punish an employee, or manage her in a fashion that will be interpreted as punishment, after the employee has dumped a truckload of cash on your desk, is not indicative of having become a horrible manager. 

In Howard's defense, he has to look at the big picture, beyond a single truckload of cash.  I think the real issue is whether he can trust Kim and trust her judgment, especially while she is associating with Jimmy.  

Also, where was Kim's hustle and burning desire to bring in new business before she got exiled to doc review?  Maybe he wanted to see a bit more from her. 

[MrWhyt]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Weren't the road signs in Spanish? "Alto".  Do they have Spanish road sign in NM?  Were the agents who caught Hector's men American or Mexican?  If the truck scenes took place in Mexico, you'd expect them to be American and vice versa.    

It is possible that they would bury guns on both sides of the border, so they would only be unarmed during the crossings.  

you're right, everything Mike did could have happened on the mexican side. It would mean he wouldn't have to bring the drugs across, just the rifle. Also what would be the point of having the truck searched after it dropped off it's cargo. But then we have to explain what the Los Pollos Hermanos truck was doing in Mexico in the flash forward.  It isn't clear cut.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, MrWhyt said:

you're right, everything Mike did could have happened on the mexican side. It would mean he wouldn't have to bring the drugs across, just the rifle. Also what would be the point of having the truck searched after it dropped off it's cargo. But then we have to explain what the Los Pollos Hermanos truck was doing in Mexico in the flash forward.  It isn't clear cut.

I agree it is confusing.  I never thought LPH was doing meth business in Mexico.  Maybe the truck was smuggling the cartel's cut of the cash to Mexico?  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I feel like I'm Chuck's lawyer here, but I think he had pretty, good cause to fire Ernie.  I love Ernie and he was thrust into a very, difficult situation.  But,  he sided with Chuck's "enemy", Jimmy, twice.  

We know that he helped Jimmy cover up his cut and paste fraud, by lying and saying that he had called Jimmy to let him know that Chuck was at the copy shop, interrogating the clerk.  Chuck might not know that he was lying, but he knows that Ernie either a) Lied b) Actually tipped off Jimmy that Chuck was on his trail.  

Then, while Chuck orchestrated the tape situation, Ernie, once again tipped off Jimmy about the tape, despite being firmly warned not to tell anyone, with that BS "confidentiality" speech.  

Chuck can't have Jimmy's mole working for him.  I don't know if he fired Ernie vindictively, or just saw him as collateral damage, but he really had to fire him.  He cannot trust him.

Chuck can fire anyone, of course, and Ernie is probably an at will employee, so no cause would be necessary.  But I'm still going with black-heart Chuck here.  He knew Ernie's allegiance at all times, and never fired him previously.  He manipulated him into the tape revelation, then axed him.  He didn't even need Ernie in play.  He could have had Howard leak the info, or done it himself.  He's not punishing him for insubordination, Ernie did what Chuck wanted.  He was punishing him for being Jimmy's friend.  If he couldn't trust him, he could just have him replaced as errand boy, and Ernie wouldn't be unemployed.  Messing with someone's livelihood and future employment prospects when it isn't necessary, tells me more about Chuck's character than had been explicit before.  I hope we see Jimmy or Kim do something to help him out.  I think that would be in character for either/both of them.

[Lion18]

22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Weren't the road signs in Spanish? "Alto".  Do they have Spanish road sign in NM?  Were the agents who caught Hector's men American or Mexican?  If the truck scenes took place in Mexico, you'd expect them to be American and vice versa.    

It is possible that they would bury guns on both sides of the border, so they would only be unarmed during the crossings.  

If I remember correctly the police said in English to put your hands up and get down on your knees or something like that 

[Bryce Lynch]

I think Mike's comment to Gus about Hector murdering a civilian who "wasn't in the game" was a nod to Omar Little from "The Wire".  He also robbed drug dealers and had a "code" that forbade harming citizens who weren't "in the game".   He, like Mike, was also very clever and did his research before doing the robberies.  

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Chuck can fire anyone, of course, and Ernie is probably an at will employee, so no cause would be necessary.  But I'm still going with black-heart Chuck here.  He knew Ernie's allegiance at all times, and never fired him previously.  He manipulated him into the tape revelation, then axed him.  He didn't even need Ernie in play.  He could have had Howard leak the info, or done it himself.  He's not punishing him for insubordination, Ernie did what Chuck wanted.  He was punishing him for being Jimmy's friend.  If he couldn't trust him, he could just have him replaced as errand boy, and Ernie wouldn't be unemployed.  Messing with someone's livelihood and future employment prospects when it isn't necessary, tells me more about Chuck's character than had been explicit before.  I hope we see Jimmy or Kim do something to help him out.  I think that would be in character for either/both of them.

I thought Chuck would immediately fire Ernie for "calling Jimmy" about Chuck being at the copy shop.  That certainly seemed to be the way things were going when Chuck was in the hospital and ordered both Jimmy and Ernie out of the room.  

I think Chuck held off firing him, because he was the perfect pawn for his scam on Jimmy.  He is a bit naive, and likes Jimmy, so he used him.  Howard might not have worked.  He might have refused to willingly be part of Chuck's scheme and even if he participated, Jimmy would have been far more wary of Howard than his buddy Ernie.

My point is, while it broke my heart to see Ernie fired, I don't think it is so much of a "black heart" line for Chuck.  He, right or wrong, has been firmly committed to and obsessed with, stopping Jimmy from practicing, for some time.  So, using and then firing a guy, who twice leaked secrets to the "evil" Jimmy McGill seems totally reasonable, in that context.  In his mind, Ernie is disloyal to "noble, law abiding" Chuck and in cahoots with "bad, dishonest" Jimmy.  Firing him is a no brainer, from Chuck's perspective.  The line that eventually got Ernie fired was crossed a long time ago. 

[ChromaKelly]

25 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree it is confusing.  I never thought LPH was doing meth business in Mexico.  Maybe the truck was smuggling the cartel's cut of the cash to Mexico?  

I thought LPH's chicken farm and supply warehouse was in Mexico. IIRC, they would bring the drugs into the US in LPH supply trucks, hidden in buckets of fry oil, I think.
I'm pretty sure Mike was in Mexico for the sneaker shooting. The Alto sign and the sign for the US border make me think that. Plus the border agents seemed American, so they would be entering the US.

[Auntie Anxiety]

17 minutes ago, Lion18 said:

If I remember correctly the police said in English to put your hands up and get down on your knees or something like that 

Setting up the scene, for a split second the camera focused on the door of the U.S. customs truck before any action took place.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, ChromaKelly said:

I thought LPH's chicken farm and supply warehouse was in Mexico. IIRC, they would bring the drugs into the US in LPH supply trucks, hidden in buckets of fry oil, I think.
I'm pretty sure Mike was in Mexico for the sneaker shooting. The Alto sign and the sign for the US border make me think that. Plus the border agents seemed American, so they would be entering the US.

I thought the chicken farm was in the Albuquerque area.  Hank wanted Walt to drive him there, but Walt pretended to be sick.  

Plus, they had several meetings there, including the one between Jesse and Gus's dealers who killed Combo.  I doubt they would have crossed the border for that.

Finally, Gus and Juan Bolsa had some chit chat about Bolsa crossing the border (from Mexico) to get the the meeting at the chicken farm.  

[Eulipian 5k]

So it wasn't enough to show a straight on shot of a cup of coffee being dispensed, we get a shot from inside the machine, behind the coffee cup, on barista-cam!

[Bannon]

41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

In Howard's defense, he has to look at the big picture, beyond a single truckload of cash.  I think the real issue is whether he can trust Kim and trust her judgment, especially while she is associating with Jimmy.  

Also, where was Kim's hustle and burning desire to bring in new business before she got exiled to doc review?  Maybe he wanted to see a bit more from her. 

When a manager sees extremely desirable behavior, and wants to see if it can be replicated (so it isn't just a single truckload of cash) , the intelligent path to take is to A) make it clear that more of that behavior is what is desired, and B) what the rewards will be if it is replicated. If you continue to punish the employee, what is quite likely to happen is that the employee will be hired by somebody else, in an effort to replicate the behavior.

We likely aren't going to agree with regard to Howard. Frankly, he's on really, really,  thin ice with his indulgence of Chuck's obssession to drive Jimmy out of the legal profession. I think there's a pretty good chance the entire think blows up not just on Chuck, but HHM as well. 

[shapeshifter]

"At work and can't stay off the boards" <-- old FanForum joke.
But seriously, thanks to everyone upthread for reminding those of us who needed it of the relevant bits from previous seasons.

 

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

. . .Chuck was positively chilling in saying that it was all for Jimmy's own good and how he'd be there to help him after it was all over with, as in his playing the poor long-suffering beleaguered brother with the prosecutor.  "Jimmy's just so emotional."  Because I do believe that Chuck mostly believes that and that once again he's in the right.  Any suffering he inflicts now is in his mind for the greater good of removing the chimp with a machine gun.  It all goes back that first season confession when he said he could live with Slippin' Jimmy, but not Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree.   If Jimmy is disbarred and ends up dependent on Chuck again in some subservient position, everything will go back to the way it should be. . . .

I almost want to see this happen because I do not think Chuck would be satisfied, and it would be interesting to see the responses of Howard, Jimmy, Kim, et al. to Chuck's new version of his campaign against his brother.

For me, the key moment in the episode was when Jimmy--after having broken in and mutilated the tape--yelled, "For this you destroyed our family?!?!"
Among other things, it demonstrates that Jimmy is just now beginning to grasp the extant of Chuck's obsession.

[SnarkAttack]

Anyone else wonder why Chuck's house isn't more upscale for being a partner in a law firm?  

[TVFan17]

51 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the boy was way too old to be Brock circa 2003 (though Kaylee Ehrmentruat seems older than she should be as well).  I think Brock was 6 when Jesse met Andrea, so he would have probably been a baby or toddler.  

It could have been meant to evoke memories of Andrea and Brock.  Andrea would be an interesting BB character to bring in. A young, single Mom with a drug problem would make a good client for Saul Goodman, though I never got the idea that Saul knew her outside of her relationship to Jesse.  

I think you're spot on with your thought that the faux Andrea and Brock (and that was absolutely not Andrea, nor did she even really look like Andrea other than having long, dark hair) were meant to evoke memories of the real Andrea and Brock.   A similar thing happened last year, when there were a couple of men in the diner (not together) who evoked memories of Walter White as they ate their meals or walked by in the background.    I thought it was deliberate last season, and I think it's deliberate now, with the faux Andrea and Brock.  It's all trickery!  

Gilligan, Gould and company are putting enough actual BB characters into BCS that we have to always survey the scenes to see who or what we can recognize from BB (I don't see many people talking about noticing Tyrus ominously standing in the background during the Gus-Mike desert meeting, but he was there, along with Victor!!!), and occasionally they throw in a fake out of some sort.

I will admit that the impostor child looked very, very much like a younger Brock (who was already young when we met him in BB), and, again, the woman had long dark hair (but otherwise did not look like Andrea at all, in my opinion).  They're very clever, those sneaky BCS-BB folks!

I would not at all be shocked if see Andrea at some point, but I would have expected to see Jane first (if I am assessing the odds of which one of Jesse's women will make a cameo appearance).  Perhaps not.

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, SnarkAttack said:

Anyone else wonder why Chuck's house isn't more upscale for being a partner in a law firm?  

That neighborhood in Albquerque really is one one of the older upscale locations, and Chuck is a guy who would live in an older neighborhood. It's a bit surprising that they didn't use a house with a more classic southwest stucco exterior, but having Chuck in a home with a little bit dated interior makes some sense. 

[ShadowFacts]

30 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Chuck held off firing him, because he was the perfect pawn for his scam on Jimmy.  He is a bit naive, and likes Jimmy, so he used him.  Howard might not have worked.  He might have refused to willingly be part of Chuck's scheme and even if he participated, Jimmy would have been far more wary of Howard than his buddy Ernie.

Howard was already part of it, he said he wasn't so sure about the PI costs piling up anymore since nothing happened in eight days.  Howard's involvement is going to bite him insofar as being a witness to the break-in.  No way does he want to face Jimmy on the witness stand.  He only thought Chuck's plan was going to get Jimmy disbarred, not that all the dirty laundry was in danger of being aired. 

8 minutes ago, SnarkAttack said:

Anyone else wonder why Chuck's house isn't more upscale for being a partner in a law firm?  

I think the interior looks pretty nice, the neighborhood seems quite nice, the exterior looks like it could use a little attention.  Anything more upscale would seem to be wasted on Chuck.  He's probably been frozen in whatever way it was when Rebecca left.

[ChromaKelly]

28 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought the chicken farm was in the Albuquerque area.  Hank wanted Walt to drive him there, but Walt pretended to be sick.  

Plus, they had several meetings there, including the one between Jesse and Gus's dealers who killed Combo.  I doubt they would have crossed the border for that.

Finally, Gus and Juan Bolsa had some chit chat about Bolsa crossing the border (from Mexico) to get the the meeting at the chicken farm.  

Huh, I guess I didn't remember it correctly. You're right. Not the chicken farm then, just the supplies coming from Mexico.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

When a manager sees extremely desirable behavior, and wants to see if it can be replicated (so it isn't just a single truckload of cash) , the intelligent path to take is to A) make it clear that more of that behavior is what is desired, and B) what the rewards will be if it is replicated. If you continue to punish the employee, what is quite likely to happen is that the employee will be hired by somebody else, in an effort to replicate the behavior.

We likely aren't going to agree with regard to Howard. Frankly, he's on really, really,  thin ice with his indulgence of Chuck's obssession to drive Jimmy out of the legal profession. I think there's a pretty good chance the entire think blows up not just on Chuck, but HHM as well. 

I could see things blowing up for HHM, but not necessarily due to any bad management by Howard.   

He is in a very difficult situation, with no clear solutions.  He has a crazy, EM-phobic, senior partner, who is obsessed with ending his little brother's law career. If he tries to get rid of Chuck he will probably need to come up with over $10 million to buy him out, which could destroy the firm.  If he offends Chuck, who know how he might harm the firm. 

Like Kim, and Ernie he is sort of an innocent victim, caught up in the 2 brothers' craziness and rivalry. At least Kim got involved with Jimmy by choice.  Howard basically inherited Chuck from his father.  

[dancer]

Also like the additional interpretation of the sneakers hanging on the wire - in some neighborhoods sneakers hanging on a wire like that is used as a signal to indicate where drugs are sold

[Bannon]

16 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Howard was already part of it, he said he wasn't so sure about the PI costs piling up anymore since nothing happened in eight days.  Howard's involvement is going to bite him insofar as being a witness to the break-in.  No way does he want to face Jimmy on the witness stand.  He only thought Chuck's plan was going to get Jimmy disbarred, not that all the dirty laundry was in danger of being aired. 

I think the interior looks pretty nice, the neighborhood seems quite nice, the exterior looks like it could use a little attention.  Anything more upscale would seem to be wasted on Chuck.  He's probably been frozen in whatever way it was when Rebecca left.

Howard likely has underestimated both Chuck and Jimmy. He likely would have been fine wilth a plea down to a misdemeanor, with Jimmy getting censured, or a brief suspension of his license.  He still doesn't grasp that Chuck demands that Jimmy's entire professional life be destroyed, nor does he yet grasp that if you take away the law license that Jimmy sacrificed a huge chunk of his life to obtain, Jimmy has nothing left to lose, and may as well burn down everybody and everything. These writers are really, really, good.   

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bannon
spelling

[Bryce Lynch]

20 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Huh, I guess I didn't remember it correctly. You're right. Not the chicken farm then, just the supplies coming from Mexico.

I think the chicken batter that they hid the meth in was also shipped out of the farm in Albuquerque.  I never got any indication in BB that LPH trucks were crossing the Mexican border.  That is what makes the final shot confusing. 

Perhaps, when that scene takes place, most or all of the meth is still being produced in the cartel's dirty super lab in Mexico and they are using LPH trucks to smuggle it into the US for distribution.  

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  Gus has Mike compromise Hector's Regalo Helado trucks with his sneaker trick, so the cartel is forced to find a new primary smuggler/distributor for the US.  Gus steps up and generously offers to solve the cartel's problems by offering his LPH trucks.  

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Dianaofthehunt]

Chuck is the embodiment of that most despicable form of half-life, the "company man."  The stricken look on his face when Jimmy outlined his probable fate was most gratifying. Oh, let it come true!

Death to ALL company men.

(Excluding LPH, of course!)

[Bannon]

21 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could see things blowing up for HHM, but not necessarily due to any bad management by Howard.   

He is in a very difficult situation, with no clear solutions.  He has a crazy, EM-phobic, senior partner, who is obsessed with ending his little brother's law career. If he tries to get rid of Chuck he will probably need to come up with over $10 million to buy him out, which could destroy the firm.  If he offends Chuck, who know how he might harm the firm. 

Like Kim, and Ernie he is sort of an innocent victim, caught up in the 2 brothers' craziness and rivalry. At least Kim got involved with Jimmy by choice.  Howard basically inherited Chuck from his father.  

Oh, I think it makes a lot of sense for Howard to cooperate with the termination of Ernie. Ernie's a nice guy and competent at his somewhat simple job, but so what? His talents are easily. easily, replaceable. Having one your associate attorneys on staff land a hugely lucrative account, in contrast, is an extremely unusual event, and Howard's response to Kim's success is, in my opinion, inexcusably stupid. If Kim was happily and firmly ensconced at HHM, with Jimmy running his elderlaw practice by himself, Jimmy would have never pulled his document alteration stunt on Chuck, and HHM would not be so enmeshed in the Chuck and Jimmy feud.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bannon

[SailorGirl]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 

I was thinking there is no way they would let Mike get the sneakers on the wire on the first try, because of the roof pizza scene.

I don't think its such an issue of "letting it happen." The pizza toss was a shock to all of them, and they just went with it. The beauty of this show is that if Mike were to get it in one, they would leave it in for the same reason -- no way it would happen again -- and we wouldn't question it because this show and its runners are pretty authentic about everything that happens. Other shows I might question it and call bullshit, but this one, nope. If it happened in one, just the like pizza, it happened in one. 

But I must say, it was refreshing to see it take multiple tries, because that is the reality most of the time. The pizza was literally a one-off! :-D

[Primetimer]

Let's count them down from first to worst.

View the full article

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, SailorGirl said:

I don't think its such an issue of "letting it happen." The pizza toss was a shock to all of them, and they just went with it. The beauty of this show is that if Mike were to get it in one, they would leave it in for the same reason -- no way it would happen again -- and we wouldn't question it because this show and its runners are pretty authentic about everything that happens. Other shows I might question it and call bullshit, but this one, nope. If it happened in one, just the like pizza, it happened in one. 

But I must say, it was refreshing to see it take multiple tries, because that is the reality most of the time. The pizza was literally a one-off! :-D

If, by some miracle, Banks was able to get the sneakers on the wire on the first try, like Cranston with the roof pizza, I suppose they would have to leave it in.  What I meant is, I was sure they wouldn't edit it to make is seem like Mike's 17th try was really the first try, because people would call BS and it would just seem unrealistic.  

[teddysmom]

Wasn't the doctor at the clinic the same one who took care of Gus & Mike after the shoot out at Don Eladio's? He looked familiar and then when I saw the chickens outside, that clinched it for me.

"If Wendell doesn't eat, nobody eats."

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Wasn't the doctor at the clinic the same one who took care of Gus & Mike after the shoot out at Don Eladio's? He looked familiar and then when I saw the chickens outside, that clinched it for me.

"If Wendell doesn't eat, nobody eats."

Yes, same doctor.  I couldn't tell if one of the chickens was Wendell, though. :) That was one of my favorite lines from BB. 

BTW, I never realized this before, the the doctor's name is Barry Goodman.  

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[SailorGirl]

7 hours ago, Bannon said:

If your partner thinks the battery in your key fob affects his well-being, you know he is mentally ill.  If you allow him to keep clients' critical documents in an unsecure fashion, in his home without electricity, because he thinks he can't work in buildings with electricity, and this provides an opportunity for someone to alter those documents, as the mentally ill partner lays incapacitated by his electricity phobia, then your partner's mental illness has affected the client.

And if can't have batteries from a key fob or anything else in his presence, then how was he okay with the batteries in the tape recorder? That he himself inserted? A jury would see right through that BS. 

[teddysmom]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't call the doctor from the hospital as an expert witness.

She would testify that Chuck is either faking it or mentally ill.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

think the clinic was probably in the states, I don't see Mike risking crossing the border with a "yay big" package of drugs. I also doubt he'd try to cross into mexico with a rifle in his car, more evidence that the truck scene was in the US.

 

2 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

That stop sign was in Mexico, hence the word "Alto". 

I believe that clinic was in Mexico. That was the same doc who set up the portable clinic to save Gustav and Mike after they took the poisoned tequila to the boss of the cartel.

It was Mexico.  The stop signs said "Alto" and "Free Clinic" was written in Spanish on the wall. Hector's guys were hiding their guns in Mexico, before crossing into the US, where the drug-sniffing border dogs "caught" them.

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't call the doctor from the hospital as an expert witness.

She would testify that Chuck is either faking it or mentally ill.

Well, you have to be able to show that Chuck's mental condition is pertinent to the claim of innocence. What's hard for the prosecution is to explain Jimmy's crime without also explaining Chuck's mental illness, and what caused the tape to be made, and why Jimmy was motivated to destroy it. That's a minefield for HHM; Chuck having clients' poorly secured critical documents in a home without electricity or a phone, when Chuck is known to become suddenly incapacitated. Clients being pitched to stay with HHM, based upon Chuck's expertise in banking regulation, without the client being informed of Chuck's history of being suddenly incapacitated for extended periods.

Chuck, being mentally ill, doesn't really grasp how his mental illness affects others. Howard still doesn't really grasp how the only thing that will satisfy Chuck is something that would cause Jimmy to engage in mutually assured destruction. Howard probably still thinks a plea bargain is the likely outcome. Not for the 1st time, Howard has really misapprehended the personalities he is engaged with.    

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't call the doctor from the hospital as an expert witness.

She would testify that Chuck is either faking it or mentally ill.

If it ever gets that far.  So far it seems Chuck and Howard suppose that Jimmy will take the pre-prosecution diversion deal (though it's kind of delusional thinking).  When Howard knows he has to testify, he might suddenly become unsure of what he saw (and he was in the other room for part of it).  The PI was also in the next room for part of it, and would be questioned about why he was there for 8 days, thus revealing the trap.  HHM would hate for all that skullduggery to be public. 

On another topic, Gus' precise knowledge of all of Mike's dealings with Tuco and Hector did not come from gas cap tracking.  Nacho? 

[benteen]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, you have to be able to show that Chuck's mental condition is pertinent to the claim of innocence. What's hard for the prosecution is to explain Jimmy's crime without also explaining Chuck's mental illness, and what caused the tape to be made, and why Jimmy was motivated to destroy it. That's a minefield for HHM; Chuck having clients' poorly secured critical documents in a home without electricity or a phone, when Chuck is known to become suddenly incapacitated. Clients being pitched to stay with HHM, based upon Chuck's expertise in banking regulation, without the client being informed of Chuck's history of being suddenly incapacitated for extended periods.

Chuck, being mentally ill, doesn't really grasp how his mental illness affects others. Howard still doesn't really grasp how the only thing that will satisfy Chuck is something that would cause Jimmy to engage in mutually assured destruction. Howard probably still thinks a plea bargain is the likely outcome. Not for the 1st time, Howard has really misapprehended the personalities he is engaged with.    

Mentally ill and I would throw in self-centered when it comes to Chuck.  He's a very "ME ME ME" personality.

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

If it ever gets that far.  So far it seems Chuck and Howard suppose that Jimmy will take the pre-prosecution diversion deal (though it's kind of delusional thinking).  When Howard knows he has to testify, he might suddenly become unsure of what he saw (and he was in the other room for part of it).  The PI was also in the next room for part of it, and would be questioned about why he was there for 8 days, thus revealing the trap.  HHM would hate for all that skullduggery to be public. 

On another topic, Gus' precise knowledge of all of Mike's dealings with Tuco and Hector did not come from gas cap tracking.  Nacho? 

Howard likely still doesn't know that Chuck is insisting on Jimmy essentially agreeing to be disbarred. If he did, Howard, for all his problems in reading personalities, likely would have grasped that Jimmy would go to trial before he would agree to that.  

[benteen]

It is funny that considering how Jimmy turns out in Breaking Bad, Chuck was right about wanting him to have his license revoked.  Although I think that Chuck helped create what Jimmy was due to his own issues.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, benteen said:

It is funny that considering how Jimmy turns out in Breaking Bad, Chuck was right about wanting him to have his license revoked.  Although I think that Chuck helped create what Jimmy was due to his own issues.

Jimmy/Saul is responsible for his behavior, but I think a guy who was willing to toil for years in the mailroom, while slowly getting a law degree, could have been led down a different path than full Saulhood, with the right encouragement.

[LoneHaranguer]

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I can understand why Jimmy wants to represent himself and not have Kim risk herself to try and help, but Kim still throwing in with him is sweet, even if I still worry she will get caught in the crossfire.  But if anyone can figure a way to get Jimmy out of serving jail time, it would be her.

If she can't, somebody might have to broach the concept of getting a criminal lawyer to help.

[PrincessSteel]

Chuck has always said the most awful things to Jimmy, all under the guise of making his little brother shape up, while in reality venting his lifelong frustration over Jimmy's inherent likability (especially as compared to Chuck's humorless boring self). When Jimmy gave the curbside "You're going to die alone" speech to Chuck, it was out of his bone-deep realization that none of Jimmy's loving ministrations to his bat-shit older brother had given him any status in Chuck's eyes. Bringing the groceries & ice every damn day, leaving his electronics in the mailbox, grounding himself, defending Chuck to the doctor who pushed for hospitalization...these were all unselfish acts performed out of the goodness of Jimmy's heart, while Chuck viewed them as his due for bailing out Slippin' Jimmy throughout their lives. The tone of Jimmy's voice carried no drama beyond the import of his words. It was the voice of someone so over it that he could barely be bothered to speak. Masterful acting all around in this episode. My heart is broken.

[ShadowFacts]

22 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Howard likely still doesn't know that Chuck is insisting on Jimmy essentially agreeing to be disbarred. If he did, Howard, for all his problems in reading personalities, likely would have grasped that Jimmy would go to trial before he would agree to that.  

Howard might not have puzzled out all of the possible outcome, but I think he knew the broad outline of where Chuck was going.  I'm going back to the scene where Chuck plays the tape for Howard, Howard says forget about getting Mesa Verde back, this can't help us if it goes public, I can't think of a single thing we can do with this.  Chuck says, "I can." and the scene cuts away.  At that point I think Chuck laid out his plan, including using the private investigators which Howard mentioned being tired of paying when he showed up at Chuck's.  Since he didn't want it going public, he went along with Chuck's plan to blackmail Jimmy into giving up his license, and that's what I think is delusional thinking on both their parts, knowing Jimmy as they do.  Why would he go down without a fight?  It was a bad plan, the McGill bros. have at least that in common. 

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

Howard might not have puzzled out all of the possible outcome, but I think he knew the broad outline of where Chuck was going.  I'm going back to the scene where Chuck plays the tape for Howard, Howard says forget about getting Mesa Verde back, this can't help us if it goes public, I can't think of a single thing we can do with this.  Chuck says, "I can." and the scene cuts away.  At that point I think Chuck laid out his plan, including using the private investigators which Howard mentioned being tired of paying when he showed up at Chuck's.  Since he didn't want it going public, he went along with Chuck's plan to blackmail Jimmy into giving up his license, and that's what I think is delusional thinking on both their parts, knowing Jimmy as they do.  Why would he go down without a fight?  It was a bad plan, the McGill bros. have at least that in common. 

You may be right, and if you are, Howard really has lost whatever management acumen he once had. Maybe Howard's dad had it all, and Howard has been coasting along his entire career.

[knaankos]

4 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

So, Mike meets Gus for the first time. My two favorite BB/BCS characters! Awww. So happy!

When Jimmy was sitting on the curb and Chuck came out to talk to him, Chuck did not have his space blanket nor a hat and didn't seem the least bit concerned about being outside unprotected.

Exactly. Because things had just gone exactly the way he wanted. 

[Bannon]

20 minutes ago, PrincessSteel said:

Chuck has always said the most awful things to Jimmy, all under the guise of making his little brother shape up, while in reality venting his lifelong frustration over Jimmy's inherent likability (especially as compared to Chuck's humorless boring self). When Jimmy gave the curbside "You're going to die alone" speech to Chuck, it was out of his bone-deep realization that none of Jimmy's loving ministrations to his bat-shit older brother had given him any status in Chuck's eyes. Bringing the groceries & ice every damn day, leaving his electronics in the mailbox, grounding himself, defending Chuck to the doctor who pushed for hospitalization...these were all unselfish acts performed out of the goodness of Jimmy's heart, while Chuck viewed them as his due for bailing out Slippin' Jimmy throughout their lives. The tone of Jimmy's voice carried no drama beyond the import of his words. It was the voice of someone so over it that he could barely be bothered to speak. Masterful acting all around in this episode. My heart is broken.

I think this aspect, this utter sadness that permeates this show, while also providing large doses of humor and suspense, via impeccable writing, acting,and direction, makes it among the most remarkable shows I've ever watched.

Also, ever since Chuck's "chimpanzee with a machine gun" crack, I've thought of Chuck as being the worst kind of cruel person: the kind who won't even admit to himself that he is engaging in cruelty. How empty must your heard be to deny the humanity of your sibling?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Bannon
addition

[xbones]

Chuck definitely knew what he was doing, he is so jealous of Jimmy. The background they showed us having to do with Chuck's  wife laughing at Jimmy's jokes,  and their parents "liking" Jimmy better was a true view of how Chuck wanted to punish his brother. 

I don't think that was Brook and his mother at the doctor's office, the actress (mother) was not the same. 

Another great episode. Bravo to cast & crew!

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't call the doctor from the hospital as an expert witness.

She would testify that Chuck is either faking it or mentally ill.

They'd have to establish her relevance and her expertise.  I don't think she was a psychiatrist or psychologist. 

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

It was Mexico.  The stop signs said "Alto" and "Free Clinic" was written in Spanish on the wall. Hector's guys were hiding their guns in Mexico, before crossing into the US, where the drug-sniffing border dogs "caught" them.

Yep, it was Mexico.  Not only for the reasons you state but if you look at where the red shoes are thrown, there's a sign, in Spanish, that says 20km to the US/Mexico border.  The sign in Spanish could arguably be in the US (although it'd also be in English) but kilometers?  Nevah! 

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

 Yeah, Jimmy was wrong to run the commercial without prior approval, and he is fundamentally incapable of being a good bureaucratic soldier. He also produces piles of cash. .

The only time we've seen Jimmy producing tons of cash is in Breaking Bad and when he contemplated what to do with the Kellerman money in the first season.  Sandpiper has potential to create a decent settlement but we're years away from it.

[Bannon]

Sandpiper's largely a done deal, and the only fight is over the size of the pile. That was conceded in the initial meeting with Chuck, Jimmy and Sandpiper's counsel. Sandpiper can't just roll over, so the fight will last a good many years, but the chance of Sandpiper not being found liable for a pretty sizable sum are fairly low. That's why HHM was so willing to divide the pie with D & M, and why D & M was so thrilled with the offer to join in the suit.