S06.E19: The Black Fairy

[KingOfHearts]

17 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't. At this point we have over-dosed on villains. This show is so obsessed with villains and delving into their psyches that it ignores the other characters. We never get any meaningful scenes with Emma and her parents or Emma and Hook, everything seems to happen off screen and even if they're together all they do is talk about the latest villain and how they're going to defeat them. I don't see how A&E don't understand how stale the formula is and how frustrated the viewers are with it. 

Taking my reply to All Seasons.

[andromeda331]

I loved Zelena running over the Black Fairy that was the best part! But why are all the battles between two big powers so short? Regina vs the Black Fairy lasted a couple seconds and that was it. Why don't they ever really have them battle each other? It might be fun to watch. I love how all Rumple does is show a heart and everyone believes his story. Why does everyone believe his story? Why don't at least some if not all question it. Its heart, it easily could belong to anyone why doesn't say Regina question it? She's been fooled by the wrong heart before. Or Hook who's always suspicious of Rumple? Or you know everyone else since Rumple has double crossed them all. Belle thinks she's been right all along! Of course she does because those few weeks baby Rumple was the Savior totally cancels out all of the evil he's done since then. So the Black Fairy's plan was to send all the babies to the Land without Magic? How weird. I wonder "when" that would have happened in our world if she had done it. How many babies would that have been? The odds of them dying before anyone finding them. The only part I liked in the back story was the Black Fairy not wanting to give up her power. Now that's more like Rumple and his family.  That's the only part that made sense.

[Randomosity]

Ok, I barely watched, but I did catch the Ikea quip and I actually had a real laugh at this show (instead of a mocking, pathetic one) for the first time in forever. Defeated by sniglar. Heh.

[AudienceofOne]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

Why is Fiona wanting to kill Emma? 
because she's a saviour and there's a big battle a coming?

THEN DON'T PROVOKE EMMA AND CAUSE THE FINAL BATTLE.

This is what I want to know. This revelation doesn't make sense in terms of the Black Fairy's own actions.  If the final battle was supposed to be between "Rumple the Saviour" and his mother and she went to all the trouble of turning dark and enacting a curse to stop it, then why did she attack Storybrooke in the first place? Was she really more worried about her son finding out he was supposed to be Saviour then she was about her son finding out she had abducted her grandson? If so, then why send him looking in the first place? If Blue hadn't told him before now, she's in no danger of telling him any time soon.

Does any of this make sense?

[CCTC]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I loved Zelena running over the Black Fairy that was the best part! But why are all the battles between two big powers so short? Regina vs the Black Fairy lasted a couple seconds and that was it. Why don't they ever really have them battle each other? It might be fun to watch. I love how all Rumple does is show a heart and everyone believes his story. Why does everyone believe his story? Why don't at least some if not all question it. Its heart, it easily could belong to anyone why doesn't say Regina question it? She's been fooled by the wrong heart before. Or Hook who's always suspicious of Rumple? Or you know everyone else since Rumple has double crossed them all. Belle thinks she's been right all along! Of course she does because those few weeks baby Rumple was the Savior totally cancels out all of the evil he's done since then. So the Black Fairy's plan was to send all the babies to the Land without Magic? How weird. I wonder "when" that would have happened in our world if she had done it. How many babies would that have been? The odds of them dying before anyone finding them. The only part I liked in the back story was the Black Fairy not wanting to give up her power. Now that's more like Rumple and his family.  That's the only part that made sense.

I watched the season 1 finale not too long ago.  One thing that struck me was the parallel action sequences with Charming and Emma and the dragon (I think another earlier episode had a pretty detailed action sequence with Charming).  I remember thinking those action sequences from the first season were much more dramatic and action packed than anything of the last few seasons which usually involve two people shooting magic rays at each other in the middle of the street where everyone else stands by and watches.

[andromeda331]

1 minute ago, CCTC said:

I watched the season 1 finale not too long ago.  One thing that struck me was the parallel action sequences with Charming and Emma and the dragon (I think another earlier episode had a pretty detailed action sequence with Charming).  I remember thinking those action sequences from the first season were much more dramatic and action packed than anything of the last few seasons which usually involve two people shooting magic rays at each other in the middle of the street where everyone else stands by and watches.

I agree. There was a lot of action then Emma fighting a dragon she never done anything like that before and I love way they showed Charming and Emma both battling the dragon. Now we have magic people shoot magic rays at each other once or maybe twice and that's it. There's no real battle. Why not show the Black Fairy and Regina really going after each other?

[Camera One]

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Fiona is nothing more than a "fill in all the blanks" plot device character. She is Rumple's mother, but since she's just a redux of Pan and Rumple, that's unnecessary. She created the Dark Curse, but as part of a nonsensical plan to save her son, not devastate an entire population. And finally, she's the freaking Black Fairy. An opportunity to see the underside of fairydom was botched up to woobify Rumple even more. The continuity we've seen in the show up to this point doesn't even line up.

I mean, her comment in a previous episode, "I practically invented dark magic"?  Uh, what?  You were a peasant turned fairy who combined a few spells to write one curse.  

The most unintentionally funny moment was when Tiger Lily melodramatically exclaimed "Evil was not born this winter!  IT WAS MADE!!!!"  Yeah, it was made by your ridiculous choice to allow some non-fairy to read the Book of Prophesy.  

If Rumple and The Black Fairy are "destined to destroy each other", what does that have to do with Emma?  Why would their battle be "the final battle"?   What happens after the final battle?  None of these ideas fit together.

The Center of Storybrooke was under Granny's jukebox?  Seriously?  

[KingOfHearts]

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I mean, her comment in a previous episode, "I practically invented dark magic"?  Uh, what?  You were a peasant turned fairy who combined a few spells to write one curse.

She combined two random fairy spells to concoct the darkest curse ever made. Speaking of which, why the heck did Blue not destroy it? I don't think she would just stuff it in a cave with the Chernobog. I think this episode proved she's stupid, not shady.

Edited May 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

She combined two random fairy spells to concoct the darkest curse ever made. Speaking of which, why the heck did Blue not destroy it? I don't think she would just stuff it in a cave with the Chernobog. I think this episode proved she's stupid, not shady.

Where was she all the time Tiger Lily was messing up her fairy godmother duties?  She just burst into the Fairy Chambers or whatever it was called in the last moment.  Did Tiger Lily not mention that Fiona turned herself into a Fairy?  That was completely against protocol.  Was there a deleted scene where Blue fired "Red" too?

As usual, the "good guys" had to be utterly stupid for any of the plot to happen.

You guessed right that Blue hardly got a role to play in the flashback.

I also don't buy that Gideon had heard "all about" the Fairy's inner sanctum enough to recognize it when he saw it.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I also don't buy that Gideon had heard "all about" the Fairy's inner sanctum enough to recognize it when he saw it.

He recognized the plastic flower lamps.

[Tiger]

Does anyone have a gif of Zelena mowing down Black?  

That was the single best moment in six seasons of the show, and frankly one of the best things I've seen on tv in general in some time. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

That was the single best moment in six seasons of the show, and frankly one of the best things I've seen on tv in general in some time. 

The highlights of S6 in three sentences:

Captain Swan wedding. Lady Tremaine. Zelena hitting Rumple's mother with a car.

Quote

Oh yeah... Where's the "Book of Prophesy" now?

Glinda has it? Oh wait, that's the Oz edition. I need to keep my recycled plots straight.

Edited May 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts
Removed broken link.

[Camera One]

It was funny but she just gets back up and apparates away?  Why didn't Regina take advantage of the moment to subdue her?  We don't even know if Regina *could* have subdued her.  Don't they have any plan for when she randomly shows up?  Pandora's Box?  A magical flycatcher?  Villains just show up to make big showy pronouncements and then disappear until it's time for suicide mission duels.  Was Rumple not afraid of The Black Fairy kidnapping Belle to use as leverage while he was in Dreamland?  

Oh yeah... Where's the "Book of Prophesy" now?

[jhlipton]

Raise your hand if you threw up a little every time someone said Rumple was a Savior...

23 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I laughed when Zelena mowed down the black fairy, but why did that stop the fight?

23 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Admittedly, I'm baffled as to how these people's power and magic work.  At times, they have a ridiculous amount of power, and can do anything they want.  At other times, they are completely powerless, and the most incompetent people on the face of the planet.

Why wouldn't they all face the Black Fairy together?  Wouldn't they have been better off, instead of sending Rumple with the magic wand, to have Emma, Regina, Rumple (depending on which side he is on in this episode), et al, use all their magic against the Black Fairy?

Because each hero can only fight the villain once (and only one-on-one) per episode.

At Granny's you had Emma, Regina, Hook and Charming, who could have attacked the Black Fairy as a group but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.  It's got to be a High Noon type fight.

23 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

That easily goes to Rumple being sent to kill his mom, he clearly doesn't and pretends anyway, and every last one of these damn knuckleheads fall for it.  Every one of them!  They are hopeless.  Never trust Rumple to do what he says he was.  They should have sent Hook with his telescope to watch from a far or something.  Idiots, the lot of them.  And they're even going ahead with the wedding now, which is obviously when Fiona will strike.  Idiots.

 

maybe she can invite a few of her Galavant friends along for the ride.  Hell, Mallory Jensen is also in an ABC show!)

So where did the Black Heart come from?  I know, I know: TSTW

Jensen is on a much better show and having a great time on it.

8 hours ago, adam807 said:

"No, I mean, it's just, like...if some oracle told you you were going to kill your father and marry your mother, wouldn't you just never kill anybody and stay single? And then, if you did inadvertently kill somebody, in the heat of the moment or something, and later started dating, wouldn't you be smart enough to, like, avoid older women?  I mean, to me the moral of that story is not 'your destiny awaits you.'  To me it's...you know...'Do the Fucking Math.'"

-Richard Greenberg, Three Days of Rain

I'd rather marry a duckbilled playpus than end up like old Oedipus Rex.

I was playing "Cards Against Humanity" and the Black Card was "Kid tested.  Mother approved."  I played "Oedipus Complex" but none of the other players had heard of it.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

7 hours ago, adam807 said:

"There's a magical bubble over this town" was stupid, but it's clear and it makes sense.

But magical bubbles have a pric..... HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

7 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Is there a character on this show that doesn't have mommy or daddy issues?

Pongo?

1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

This revelation doesn't make sense in terms of the Black Fairy's own actions.  If the final battle was supposed to be between "Rumple the Saviour" and his mother and she went to all the trouble of turning dark and enacting a curse to stop it, then why did she attack Storybrooke in the first place?

Once Rumple wasn't the Savior there was no need to "protect" him from the Final Battle.  PLOT!!!!!
If the Black Fairy was banished, how was she able to steal children?  PLOT???

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

If the Black Fairy was banished, how was she able to steal children?  PLOT???

They explained in an earlier episode she could escape from the Dark Realm for brief periods of time.  That's not technically the definition of "banished", A&E.

If she could leave for short amounts of time, why didn't she just steal back Baby Rumple?

[jade.black]

Didn't Hook propose like literally last week in this storyline? Yet between hunting down the Black Fairy, exploring Rumple's dreamscape, Snow and Charming JUST waking up, etc etc, Emma has had time to buy a dress, they've bought rings and booked a venue, and they've nailed down a whole episode's worth of songs and choreography? (Ok, the last part was a joke.) What happened to build-up? And don't tell me Hook, basically the most interesting and charismatic guy in any realm has literally no friends he would rather have stand by his side than his fiance's annoying teenage son? Let me guess, Regina is going to be Maid of Honor. Ew. Emma and Hook deserve a way cooler life and set of friends (or at least ones in their own age group).

[Camera One]

I'm sure the crowd of extras who drank the sleeping potion at the town hall will attend.

[Souris]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Raise your hand if you threw up a little every time someone said Rumple was a Savior...

I was playing "Cards Against Humanity" and the Black Card was "Kid tested.  Mother approved."  I played "Oedipus Complex" but none of the other players had heard of it.  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

::raises hand::

You need to find better players to play with. I would have declared you the winner of the game then and there. There could be no more perfect card combo.

[Dianthus]

I don't necessarily mind that Hook asked Henry to stand up with him, but he's a charismatic guy with all kinds of cool stories to tell and a confident leader of men, so you'd think in all this time he'd have made at least one friend who wasn't related to his fiancé.

Did I mention how much I hate Regina? No? How remiss of me. Stupid bitch snipes at Hook for (quite reasonably) asking her bona fides before just handing over the magical McGuffin du jour. F*cking cow.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

You need to find better players to play with. I would have declared you the winner of the game then and there. There could be no more perfect card combo.

Thanks!  It's my in-laws and they don't get a lot of my jokes....

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

They explained in an earlier episode she could escape from the Dark Realm for brief periods of time.  That's not technically the definition of "banished", A&E.

If she could leave for short amounts of time, why didn't she just steal back Baby Rumple?

Exactly, Fiona could have shown up at any point and taken Rumple. Why didn't she?

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

Exactly, Fiona could have shown up at any point and taken Rumple. Why didn't she?

So sad we won't get another flashback with her before the end of the season.  

Edited May 2, 2017 by Camera One

[jhlipton]

15 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So sad we won't get another flashback with her before the end of the season.  

I'm sure they'll work one in during the wedding!

[Camera One]

Why didn't Tiger Lily come along with Hook to Storybrooke.  Here's the broken wand... see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya.

[jzygayle]

So if, "Into Every Generation, A Savior is Born" is how they're handling the Savior, can we please just cut to the chase, get Buffy and the Scoobies in here and end this?

[Tiger]

10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Your wish is my command.

The highlights of S6 in three sentences:

Captain Swan wedding. Lady Tremaine. Zelena hitting Rumple's mother with a car.

Glinda has it? Oh wait, that's the Oz edition. I need to keep my recycled plots straight.

That link takes me to a page to log-into / sign-up-for Tumblr.

But yeah Jessy Schram as Cinderella, the Tremaine actress as Tremaine, Karen David, Oded Fehr (note: NOT their characters, which is on the writers not them), Joanna Garcia as Ariel, and Zelena mowing down Black have been the only good parts of this season for me.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Tiger

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Exactly, Fiona could have shown up at any point and taken Rumple. Why didn't she?

Either she couldn't control so well where she ended up or, more likely, it wasn't until after Rumple was no longer a child that she became strong enough to leave the Dark Realm for brief periods of time.

[asabovesobelow]

Regina, I love you, really, but can we retire that hairstyle and never speak of it again?

Yeah, the biggest WTF moment of this episode for me was the fairies leaving Baby Rumple with a crying, resentful, shell of a man who basically told them he was never going to love him. What could go wrong? They couldn't have told him, 'ok sir, just gonna give the baby a quick diaper change before we go, heh heh, brb.' And then beat feet to get the baby the hell away from that guy? Those fairies had one job and they royally blew it.

[Mitch]

22 hours ago, adam807 said:

Right, thank you. I think I even mentioned that in the write-up at the time and then promptly forgot it. I think I've always been confused by the whole question of Storybrooke relates to the real world. For a long time it was hidden away, and no one could come or go at all. Then so many barriers up and down and dwarves turning into trees. Can they order from Ikea and get UPS deliveries now? Do they vote in Federal elections? I know it's a dumb thing to harp on but it feels like it hasn't been given much thought, and it's one of those things where to suspend my disbelief I need to know what the rules are. "There's a magical bubble over this town" was stupid, but it's clear and it makes sense.

Again...these writers skipped their "world building skills" class, and its kind of an important class to take when your writing a show where we are to believe Snow White and the EQ live in our world.  In the first season alone we had Henry catching a bus(???) to the real world, using  a credit card..assessing a web site ("Who's your Mama!") and you had Regina calling in State Troopers to take Hansel and Gretal someplace, and then state troopers were coming to take Snow away for Katherine's murder.  You also had Hopper threatening Regina with his testimony during a custody trial..and Regina actually being scared at that. So that really meant that SB interacted with the real world...and then it didnt..but sometimes it does, but then it doesnt.... Also agree about the magic bubble..okay, it hides SB from the rest of the world, making it "forget" a town ever existed out in the middle of the woods, I can 'buy" that..but then it somehow disappears and you have Zelena needing her monkeys to stop people from leaving (why would she care) Ingrid putting up a dumb "snow wall," and then the actual dumbest guard...people turn into trees if they leave....because why????

Moving on to the episode...yes, I love crazed Zelena running gown the BF. So, writers, you suck at world building, magical rules, remembering what you did in the last episode and just coherent writing..so why didn't you make this a big dumb campy cartoon, with things like the Wicked Witch running down the Black Fairy in her crappy car..each and every week!!! THAT I like....but you can't make the show a campy cartoon with funny one liners and also a fantasy soap opera about family and hope...and attempted real human emotions...you can't have it both ways. 

Speaking of camp...how does the BF survive a car hitting  her at that speed with no injuries at all? If she is not hurt why doesn't she blow up the car and go on and attack Regina, wouldn't she be even more p*ssed off, you know, as the biggest bad who ever badded?  Again, my suspension of disbelief falters when you have scenes like this and when Regina gets thrown fifty feet in the air, flies through a huge clock face, shatters glass , etc, and has no cuts, no broken bones, no injuries at all, she isn't even stunned for a moment????

Other dumb things...Rump puts himself AND the so called Savior out..and leaves Belle of all people to protect them? Blue wakes up enough to be cryptic..."its in the center of SB." Why not just say where the hell it is exactly??? You like to keep people guessing? Why would you not keep that super duper powerful thing with you..even if you hide it in the sacristy (did we ever see a priest in that parish?) Regina boasts that she lived 28 years without magic...and Zelena seems useless but didnt she live for a few months at least in New York..she knew how to make meatloaf we know..

Rump is the number one...biggest d*ck to ever d*ck in any realm! I do have to hand it to the actor, as opposed to LP (who I love ) he is not desperate to have the audience love him, and he plays Rump just exactly as Rump should be played, no sentimental crap (well I hate his scrunchy face when he says "Oh BELLE!" )

Edited May 2, 2017 by Mitch

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Once Upon A Time Sprinkles Fairy Dust On Rumple's Mommy Issues

A flashback via dream-memory takes us all the way back to Rumple's birth to show how his mom became the Black Fairy, why everyone needs to stop trying to mess with fate, and that evil is usually more fun than good.

[KingOfHearts]

@Tiger This is why I love Zelena.

Quote

Yeah, the biggest WTF moment of this episode for me was the fairies leaving Baby Rumple with a crying, resentful, shell of a man who basically told them he was never going to love him. What could go wrong? They couldn't have told him, 'ok sir, just gonna give the baby a quick diaper change before we go, heh heh, brb.' And then beat feet to get the baby the hell away from that guy? Those fairies had one job and they royally blew it.

They didn't even give him a fairy godmother to look out for him. They banished the Black Fairy for not protecting babies like she's supposed to, but they didn't protect Rumple. It really came back to bite them in the butt.

Edited May 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[AudienceofOne]

6 hours ago, Mitch said:

yes, I love crazed Zelena running gown the BF. So, writers, you suck at world building, magical rules, remembering what you did in the last episode and just coherent writing..so why didn't you make this a big dumb campy cartoon, with things like the Wicked Witch running down the Black Fairy in her crappy car..each and every week!!!

In an episode where the Evil Queen gave the Wicked Witch driving lessons that she then used to mow down the Black Fairy who was Peter Pan's wife and Rumpelstiltskin's father? You didn't think this was a cartoon? It's possible it's just a really bad one.

No one has come up with a viable reason for the  Black Fairy to have done anything she's done this season. Come on, people! Somebody must have something. Her motives make no sense to me. At all.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, jzygayle said:

So if, "Into Every Generation, A Savior is Born" is how they're handling the Savior, can we please just cut to the chase, get Buffy and the Scoobies in here and end this?

Comes the Dawn...

10 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Either she couldn't control so well where she ended up or, more likely, it wasn't until after Rumple was no longer a child that she became strong enough to leave the Dark Realm for brief periods of time.

Show don't te.... TSTW

7 hours ago, Mitch said:

the actual dumbest guard...people turn into trees if they leave....because why????

 

"I shall never see
A dwarf as lovely as a tree"

[Olivia Y]

I'm starting to really hate the word 'prophecy'. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Show don't te.... TSTW

I looked this up in multiple slang acronym finders and only got "Tiberian Sun Total War", "Timberlawn South/Tuckerman Walk" and "The Slowest Train in the World". What did you mean?

[KingOfHearts]

25 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I looked this up in multiple slang acronym finders and only got "Tiberian Sun Total War", "Timberlawn South/Tuckerman Walk" and "The Slowest Train in the World". What did you mean?

This show, these writers. You'll only find it on these boards.

Edited May 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show, these writers. You'll only find it on these boards.

On the (now-defunct) Grimm boards too.

[Terrafamilia]

My enjoyment of Zelena's vehicular assault was hampered by the fact that I was totally expecting it. As soon as Regina poofed the BF and herself into the middle of the street to have a showdown I was thinking back on Z's driving skills. And then I knew Rumple didn't follow through as soon as he showed up in the diner with the black heart without us seeing the actual deed. Now, I know Rumple needed BF alive to get Gideon's heart back so I'd like to think he has a cunning plan in motion but I don't trust TPTB to make it satisfying.

[Camera One]

Emma wasn't mad at all that Rumple forced her to go to Dreamland, only to keep her from battling The Black Fairy without him.  Did The Black Fairy just suddenly not care that Gideon was MIA?  The "hiding place" was beyond stupid, and The Black Fairy could have gotten the wand easily by just following the dimwits around.  Why did the Wand re-build itself when Rumple was holding it?  His "destiny" as Savior-in-Final-Battle was already severed by The Shears.  Watching this show is like solving a math problem someone made up by throwing in random numbers and operations together.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show, these writers. You'll only find it on these boards.

Thanks!

Although personally I don't consider it taking time for Fiona to be able to break out much of a leap. She talked about how she'd always be trying to find her way back to him. Then I guess she started stealing other babies.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Fridge Logic: I have a hard time believing that Malcolm's drunken rants never included, "You were supposed to be the Savior, and instead you brought only misery to our lives!"

[Camera One]

The Car scene was cool, but the Super Bad Evil Lady Who Practically Invented Dark Magic didn't turn Zelena and Car into a bug?  Okay, fine, she was very weak that moment, but what about any time after that?  She's helpless now without magic.  Oh, and remember when Rumple vowed to kill her?  Never mind, we now have Wumple, poor sweet Wumple who cares so wuch about his witty bitty famiwy.  

[CCTC]

They really should have never expanded the Savior from being a role to help break the dark curse of season one.  Emma's role as the Savior in season 1 does not seem consistent with what is now -- and how does Aladdin's role as the Savior even fit into the mix.  What was his purpose and how was he selected? The creation for a whole mythology for the role does not seem really planned out.

I think Belle has been limited to a couple of variations of the same line "there is good in you" for her last ten appearances.  Considering she was the mother of a stolen child who had his heart stolen, she had a very passive role in the story line except to prop up Rumple.

I really, really don't want Rumple to have a hero's death or ending.  I have no desire to see him redeemed again.

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Okay, fine, she was very weak that moment, but what about any time after that?  

They did the same thing with the EQ.  She would show up -- sneer some threat -- get all huffy and smoke out.  The only time she really came off as menacing and a true threat was in Heartless - and even that faded in its effectiveness as they dragged it out and she never succeeded at doing anything else until they decided to reward her with a happy ending and no consequences of all the pain she caused.

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, CCTC said:

and how does Aladdin's role as the Savior even fit into the mix.  What was his purpose and how was he selected? The creation for a whole mythology for the role does not seem really planned out.

Exactly... it doesn't fit at all.  He was the diamond in the rough and his purpose was to defeat Jafar?  Except he didn't defeat Jafar.  

The problem started in Season 3 when they proclaimed Emma "The Savior" as if that was her job title and it was a never-ending role since she had to give everyone in the entire universe their happy ending.  

I hated how Rumple made it seem like Saviors have it easy and they don't have any turmoil about doing the right thing.

I think Belle has been limited to a couple of variations of the same line "there is good in you" for her last ten appearances.  Considering she was the mother of a stolen child who had his heart stolen, she had a very passive role in the story line except to prop up Rumple.

She has hardly interacted with Gideon at all.  Was this the Gideon who as a fetus wanted Belle to not have anything to do with Rumple?  Tell me how that worked again?

I really, really don't want Rumple to have a hero's death or ending.  I have no desire to see him redeemed again.

Well, Eddy thinks one of the best things about Season 6 is how Rumple put his child first.  And look how Blue and Tiger Lily ruined his life by banishing his loving mother who only wanted to protect him.

[KAOS Agent]

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I hated how Rumple made it seem like Saviors have it easy and they don't have any turmoil about doing the right thing.

This is a theme that runs through a lot of other characters' thoughts and I'm never sure if I'm supposed to see it that way. Are they implying that Emma never struggles to make the right choice? Like it's super easy to run her boyfriend through with a sword because she's the Saviour? They talk about how sacrifice and taking the harder path is the heroic choice, but then they have others disparage Emma in particular for getting everything and how it's all so easy for her. How does that work exactly? Wasn't it again stated in this episode that Saviours are fated to die? Sacrifice to make other people happy and be made to feel guilty if you experience any happiness for yourself and then die. Nice.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

I really, really don't want Rumple to have a hero's death or ending.  I have no desire to see him redeemed again.

That's most likely what's going to happen, sadly. Belle will feel justified in having faith in his "good heeeeart" and everyone will acknowledge that she was right all along to believe in poor sad Wumple.

[KingOfHearts]

20 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

This is a theme that runs through a lot of other characters' thoughts and I'm never sure if I'm supposed to see it that way. Are they implying that Emma never struggles to make the right choice? Like it's super easy to run her boyfriend through with a sword because she's the Saviour? They talk about how sacrifice and taking the harder path is the heroic choice, but then they have others disparage Emma in particular for getting everything and how it's all so easy for her. How does that work exactly? Wasn't it again stated in this episode that Saviours are fated to die? Sacrifice to make other people happy and be made to feel guilty if you experience any happiness for yourself and then die. Nice.

But villains never get happy endings!

Edited May 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[superloislane]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

I hated how Rumple made it seem like Saviors have it easy and they don't have any turmoil about doing the right thing.

I thought that was supposed to be ironic. He says that it's easy to do the right thing when you're the Savior but then it's revealed he was born a Savior. Or maybe I'm being too easy on the writers.

[jhlipton]

19 hours ago, CCTC said:

The creation for a whole mythology for the role does not seem really planned out.

What does? 

Are we ever going to find out whose black heart Rumple stole?  There's somebody Eeeeeevil who's now under Rumple's control, right?

[KAOS Agent]

I was just reading a discussion elsewhere where several very smart people from the fandom were trying to figure out exactly what the Black Fairy wants. Like does she want to kill Emma? Why? Is she looking to be a family with Rumpel/Gideon? If so, why not just be a family with them and not threaten everyone else? There is zero reason to antagonize all these other people who don't know you and don't care. Doesn't it seem like this episode should have explained what she wants, why and how she plans to get it? This is why I was so not interested in the episode. I could care about Fiona if the past informed the present, but we pretty much know nothing about the present, so the past portion seemed rather pointless. Rumpel was a Saviour, but now he's not, so... Fiona can't give up her power for her son and now she seems to have her son and power, so...

Someone remind me why I watch this show.