S10.E01: The Pilot

[ratgirlagogo]

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

She and 12 were toxic, but she was toxic with 11, too.  I actually felt sorry for him.  It was like he was working as hard as he could, and OMG, he was so talented.  But, it was like dragging an anchor around.  The story line was clunky and awkward.  It felt forced and unbelievable.  I tried to make myself believe that it was just that he, Pond, Rory, and River had such chemistry.  But, the same problem occurred with 12.  

This is so true.  But Capaldi was stuck with Clara the entire time, so he bore the brunt of the criticism.

[smorbie]

13 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

This is so true.  But Capaldi was stuck with Clara the entire time, so he bore the brunt of the criticism.

No one will ever convince me Clara wasn't part of the reason Smith left the role.  It was almost painful to watch.  But, your right.  Capaldi didn't stand a chance.  He must have often wanted to push her off something really high up.

[Mabinogia]

20 minutes ago, smorbie said:

 Capaldi didn't stand a chance.  He must have often wanted to push her off something really high up.

He felt so much lighter this episode, there was more joy. This is the Capaldi Doctor I have been waiting for.

[LiveenLetLive]

1 hour ago, HauntedBathroom said:

The one who insisted that the Doctor needed someone to hold his hand to be special was Snowflake Rosey. Now there was a character that clung on like shit to a dogs arse.

Thank you--I despised Rose (as usual it was how the character was written that was crap, not the actress, same with Coleman loved her in "Victoria") I also found it beyond cliched that the 1000 year old Doctor became smitten with a freaking 19 year old--blech.

[Jamie Satyr]

3 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Thank you--I despised Rose (as usual it was how the character was written that was crap, not the actress, same with Coleman loved her in "Victoria") I also found it beyond cliched that the 1000 year old Doctor became smitten with a freaking 19 year old--blech.

I think he's a lot older than 1000! There was a blog that charted it out so I'm pretty sure he's well over 1200; wasted a couple hundred in a time loop when River saved his life! I need to go look it up! Been a while though! ;-)

[foreverevolving]

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

No one will ever convince me Clara wasn't part of the reason Smith left the role.  It was almost painful to watch.  But, your right.  Capaldi didn't stand a chance.  He must have often wanted to push her off something really high up.

Wow, some Who fans are just pure disgusting in how blindly they'll react out of sheer hate of a character.

[Jamie Satyr]

1 minute ago, foreverevolving said:

Wow, some Who fans are just pure disgusting in how blindly they'll react out of sheer hate of a character.

We all had them sometime! The most hated it seems for all time goes back to the original companion being "knocked off" in "Earthshock;" Adric! I still tear up, but he was such a d!ck the way he was written and it appears in real life as he alienated everyone behind the scenes! ;-)

[Mabinogia]

14 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Thank you--I despised Rose (as usual it was how the character was written that was crap, not the actress, same with Coleman loved her in "Victoria") I also found it beyond cliched that the 1000 year old Doctor became smitten with a freaking 19 year old--blech.

For me Rose slightly edges out Clara in the hate department because at least Jenna Coleman is charming and adorable. I find nothing likable about Billie Piper and Rose was just horrible on top of it.

So far I'm liking Pearl Mackie and Bill. I feel like she's going to be more a Donna (a mate, not a Mate!) for the Doctor. Someone who is normal but does impressive things rather than someone who is Special (Impossible Girl, Girl who Waited, 19 year old love interest to a very old alien). This has me excited because I think Twelve needs a fun friend to hang out with, to get away from all that angst.  I've missed the fun Doctor who liked adventure and running around.

[Kelda Feegle]

Dear Moff - not all lesbians have names traditionally associated with men, or even gender-neutral names - just FYI

[WatchrTina]

On 4/16/2017 at 4:02 PM, cardigirl said:

I love Nardole, but was sad to realize he's a robot.  (Although I guess that makes more sense, than being resurrected).

I did not notice that until my 2nd viewing, when I heard the "whrrr" of machinery when he escorts Bill into the room and gestures with his arm, and then a metalic bit falls off of him, which he kicks under the chair.  That explains how it is that he hasn't aged if he's been with The Doctor for 70+ years during The Doctor's "tenure" at the university.

But if he's a robot, why does he warn Bill to "wait a bit" before using the toilet?  Why would a robot foul up a bathroom?

ETA another question.  The Doctor seems to have a whole jar of sonic screwdrivers on his office desk (and another one in the TARDIS, which he gives to Nardole when he has to "run interference" in the Dalek sequence.) But in the 50th Anniversary Special the fact that there was only ONE sonic screwdriver -- one core that keeps being re-tweaked by the various Doctors -- played a pivotal role in the plot.  (Remember how the War Doctor sets a program running on his and the one in the hands of Matt Smith's Doctor solves the equation, having been working on it nonstop for hundreds of years?)  Occasionally The Doctor will make a second screwdriver (he gave one to River) but that wasn't HIS screwdriver.  According to the 50th Anniversary special there is only one  tool carried by The Doctor -- one that spent a bit of time looking like sunglasses recently but now is back to screwdriver shape.  So what were all those extra screwdrivers doing on The Doctor's desk?

ETA2:  Did you notice at the end when the Doctor thought that the photos of River and his granddaughter were scolding him for chasing Bill away the TARDIS makes a noise and The Doctor reacts to that too -- as if it is also chastising him.  But he says something along the lines of "I can't.  I don't do that anymore.  I promised."  So . . . he's promised someone that he won't pick up companions again?  I don't recall that happening -- did that happen off-screen and the circumstances have yet to be revealed?  Is that one of the unanswered questions we get to look forward to?  That and "What's in the vault?"

Edited April 18, 2017 by WatchrTina

[foreverevolving]

25 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I did not notice that until my 2nd viewing, when I heard the "whrrr" of machinery when he escorts Bill into the room and gestures with his arm, and then a metalic bit falls off of him, which he kicks under the chair.  That explains how it is that he hasn't aged if he's been with The Doctor for 70+ years during The Doctor's "tenure" at the university.

But if he's a robot, why does he warn Bill to "wait a bit" before using the toilet?  Why would a robot foul up a bathroom?

ETA another question.  The Doctor seems to have a whole jar of sonic screwdrivers on his office desk (and another one in the TARDIS, which he gives to Nardole when he has to "run interference" in the Dalek sequence.) But in the 50th Anniversary Special the fact that there was only ONE sonic screwdriver -- one core that keeps being re-tweaked by the various Doctors -- played a pivotal role in the plot.  (Remember how the War Doctor sets a program running on his and the one in the hands of Matt Smith's Doctor solves the equation, having been working on it nonstop for hundreds of years?)  Occasionally The Doctor will make a second screwdriver (he gave one to River) but that wasn't HIS screwdriver.  According to the 50th Anniversary special there is only one  tool carried by The Doctor -- one that spent a bit of time looking like sunglasses recently but now is back to screwdriver shape.  So what were all those extra screwdrivers doing on The Doctor's desk?

But the screwdriver is basically a computer, an advanced one mind you.

I would imagine all the screwdrivers are connected and continue to work is not because of the casing but because of the internal hardware and software. it's possible than when a new screwdriver is made all the software on the previous one is copied to the new one- like we do with a backup drive and transfer that info to a new computer when we buy it. Hence why the calculation the war doctor started continued on to 10 and 11th screwdrivers.

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, foreverevolving said:

Wow, some Who fans are just pure disgusting in how blindly they'll react out of sheer hate of a character.

Capaldi had wanted to play the Doctor since he was a child.  I just think it was unfortunate that he got stuck with a companion who really was hated by a lot of the audience.  Just read this and any other forum.  Every story line revolved around her, and the character of the Doctor had to change from a man who always had a plan (or a thing which is vaguer than a plan, but still), to someone who literally had to hold her hand to give him the strength to go on.

Her character took over the show; I'm not the only one who thought so.  My remark, though, had more to do with how disappointed Capaldi must have felt that the character he had wanted to play all his life was diminished to play up the companion character.

2 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Dear Moff - not all lesbians have names traditionally associated with men, or even gender-neutral names - just FYI

And not all feel they must talk about their orientation constantly, but Moffat doesn't seem to recognize it.  As I said upthread, I think that is what doomed Torchwood.  

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

For me Rose slightly edges out Clara in the hate department because at least Jenna Coleman is charming and adorable. I find nothing likable about Billie Piper and Rose was just horrible on top of it.

So far I'm liking Pearl Mackie and Bill. I feel like she's going to be more a Donna (a mate, not a Mate!) for the Doctor. Someone who is normal but does impressive things rather than someone who is Special (Impossible Girl, Girl who Waited, 19 year old love interest to a very old alien). This has me excited because I think Twelve needs a fun friend to hang out with, to get away from all that angst.  I've missed the fun Doctor who liked adventure and running around.

I didn't hate Rose, but do feel the angsty part of her hung on way too long.  Once they realized that's where the story line had to go, they should have just gotten on with it rather than having her moon over the Doctor for ever and a day.  As for his falling in love with her?  Aaah...he's a lonely man and he found someone he connected with.  I don't have a problem with that.

But, I was not sad to see her go.  

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

He felt so much lighter this episode, there was more joy. This is the Capaldi Doctor I have been waiting for.

Agreed.  He actually returned in the Husbands of River Song.  I laughed when I watched it and then tried to remember how long it had been since I had laughed at the show, once so very, very funny.

It's nice to see it back, isn't it?

[Bruinsfan]

7 hours ago, smorbie said:

As long as she's gone, I don't care how or why.  And if wiping his memory stopped him mooning over his specialist friend, the more the better.

It is fitting that she stole a Tardis; she stole the show (and ruined it)

I just cross my fingers that Clara never was never interested enough in asking the Doctor about his pre-Clara adventures for the events of  "The Doctor's Wife" to come up with an accompanying warning about House.

5 hours ago, Lyndy said:

Haven't been a regular viewer since 12 took over. Nothing specific against this Doctor but when he was introduced, he didn't seem to be having any fun. Even when 10 got really emo about everything, he still had a sense of adventure. This episode really made me feel that spirit of fun again. I really like Bill and I think she has great rapport with Capaldi. I'm definitely in for a few more episodes.

I'd highly recommend taking a look at "The Husbands of River Song." It really had a great sense of fun and adventure.

[smorbie]

Just now, Bruinsfan said:

I'd highly recommend taking a look at "The Husbands of River Song." It really had a great sense of fun and adventure.

Agreed.  It was a breath of fresh air after the heavy, miserable episodes that preceded it.

[LiveenLetLive]

Anything with River Song and the Doctor gets my vote, LOL--I loved River who was a an EQUAL for the Doctor (not a giggly teenager, or confused young woman)

[call me ishmael]

42 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Anything with River Song and the Doctor gets my vote, LOL--I loved River who was a an EQUAL for the Doctor (not a giggly teenager, or confused young woman)

To be honest, i thought River was plagued by the same problem that Clara (who i didn't hate and really doubt had anything to with Smith or Capaldi not staying longer) did: she was a Moffat idea that he had no real sense of how to maintain but refused to let be a one-off or even a short character.  River's best moment was in the library but no....she had to be Amy and Rory's daughter.  Clara was great so long as she was just the Dalek and the woman at Christmas.  But no...she has to be the one who would go back and save ALL of the Doctor's and even make sure he picked the right Tardis.  If she had just been a puzzle who just returned because the Doctor figured it out that would have been one thing.  But Moffat's woman-idea characters never develop in any meaningful way.  It just becomes too much.  But he can't let them go into he has worn out their welcome.

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

No, she was cock-awful. See Maureen O'Brien, who played an almost identical role when CAF left, and was a million times less punchably annoying than CAF.

Similar plot function, but not an identical role. Vikki was a very different personality than Susan. CAF played Susan as she was directed to, as the character was written, and she can be absolutely delightful - when allowed. But this is off-topic so we'd better drop it.

5 hours ago, Jamie Satyr said:

I think he's a lot older than 1000! There was a blog that charted it out so I'm pretty sure he's well over 1200; wasted a couple hundred in a time loop when River saved his life! I need to go look it up! Been a while though! ;-)

The Doctor has been lying about his age ever since the 9th Doctor claimed to be 900 - he was already older than that when 6 regenerated into 7!

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'd highly recommend taking a look at "The Husbands of River Song." It really had a great sense of fun and adventure.

I tried watching it, got through the first 15 minutes, and loathed River enough to turn off. Haven't been able to bring myself to watch it again since.

[smorbie]

7 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Anything with River Song and the Doctor gets my vote, LOL--I loved River who was a an EQUAL for the Doctor (not a giggly teenager, or confused young woman)

I especially loved her often exasperated reactions to Smith, "I hate that man; I really hate him."  They had great chemistry together.

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Similar plot function, but not an identical role. Vikki was a very different personality than Susan. CAF played Susan as she was directed to, as the character was written, and she can be absolutely delightful - when allowed. But this is off-topic so we'd better drop it.

The Doctor has been lying about his age ever since the 9th Doctor claimed to be 900 - he was already older than that when 6 regenerated into 7!

I tried watching it, got through the first 15 minutes, and loathed River enough to turn off. Haven't been able to bring myself to watch it again since.

Oh, I'm so sorry you felt that way.  It was such a funny and fun episode. I really hate that you couldn't watch it.

[Mabinogia]

I despise River Song but I did love The Husbands of River Song. It is actually the only time I could stand her. She was just too smug for my taste and I'm not a fan of the actress. I'm very influenced by the actor playing the role more than how the role is written. If an engaging actor is playing a crap role I can usually overlook the crap. lol

[darkestboy]

The story riffs off about three or four other episodes and almost rather shamelessly but I really liked this episode.

It succeeded in introducing Bill perfectly, set up a great dynamic with herself, Twelve and Nardole and organically gave us an insight into her life too.

The love story with Bill and Heather was handled well, even though tragically considering what happened to the latter.

The resolution for the pilot/puddle creatures was okay as were the Dalek/Movellan cameos too.

Loved the allusions to Bill knowing her sci-fi, the pictures of Susan and River and use of Clara's music during one moment.

Nardole was decent enough too, which is encouraging for the series.

Why is the Doctor in disguise though? 8/10
 

[smorbie]

12 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Thank you--I despised Rose (as usual it was how the character was written that was crap, not the actress, same with Coleman loved her in "Victoria") I also found it beyond cliched that the 1000 year old Doctor became smitten with a freaking 19 year old--blech.

I think part of the problem with Rose is that BBC has decided Eccleston's Nine didn't exist, so on the reruns we are tossed into a relationship (Ten/Rose)  we don't understand.  But, I thought the relationship build quite organically between the Doctor and Rose, something we don't get to see because there are no reruns of their initial time together.  And Nine had great chemistry with Rose.  It was really sweet.

[Bruinsfan]

I started out disliking River Song, but came around during the Matt Smith era even though I never really bought the grand romance between the two. With Capaldi, I buy the relationship.

[that one guy]

On 4/15/2017 at 10:37 PM, Jamie Satyr said:

You noticed; right around the time of "The Destiny Of The Daleks!"

This makes me like the episode even more. I confess I didn't recognize them, it's been a long time since I've watched that one, should watch it again soon because Lalla Ward as Romana II was one of my favorite companions ever. Their chemistry was palpable (the stars were dating at the time). Anyway I was annoyed that the Doctor would just pop into the Time War to get rid of the alien tailing him, but now I realize he didn't, he popped into Destiny of the Daleks. Imagining Tom Baker is somewhere right around the corner makes the episode even better. 
I like Bill so far, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet - I liked Jenna Coleman when she was introduced as Oswin and then as Mary Poppins. I thought she was going to be great. And then she joined the show full time, and the way the character was written was just awful. First as a mystery rather than a person, and then she got a full personality transplant for each subsequent series, with the result that I don't even have a clue what she was supposed to be like. Oddly I don't think she would have made a half bad Doctor, but she wasn't a great companion. But in 21st Century, I've really only loved Amy and Rory and Donna as companions, and the rest have left me a bit flat. When the show started 54 years ago, Ian Chesterton was the main character, and often the companions have been the point of view character, wondering how much the Doctor can be trusted, or indeed how sane he is at the moment. When we are seeing things from the Doctor's point of view instead, the show suffers I think. So it's the relateable people who make the best companions - I've know a couple Amys in my life, never met a Clara, don't get me started on Saint Rose. So I like Bill so far, but I'm waiting to see if she continues to be written well or if Moffat finds a way to ruin her.

Mystery that will probably remain unsolved: wow, that space goo was super high tech. It can follow the TARDIS through space and time? An intelligent liquid TARDIS is clearly beyond the technology of the Doctor's old Type 40. Who built it? What were they doing in Bristol? How did their ship get an oil leak, so to speak? I'm thinking transmission fluid is a better metaphor, actually.

[LiveenLetLive]

5 hours ago, smorbie said:

And Nine had great chemistry with Rose.  It was really sweet.

I just couldn't get past the teenager thing--it didn't help that Billie Piper actually looked like a young woman in her 20's but was written as a highschooler (her actions and dialogue belied that). I thought that Smith and Kingston had great chemistry despite the fact that Kingston is 20 years older, but I did think that the Capaldi/Kingston scenes brought a deeper resonance to their relationship. I do think that the writers of the new Who universe don't do particularly well with female characters--usually they introduce some device (Rory for example) to attempt to remove any romantic connotation between the younger doctors and their companions, some of which work (Rory) and some don't. I also highly resent the way they had to keep insisting that Donna and 10 weren't partners, I didn't need their relationship to be defined so literally. Then again, I am adult and sometimes forget that this is a "children's show" and children apparently are unable to make certain distinctions, LOL.

[smorbie]

4 minutes ago, LiveenLetLive said:

I just couldn't get past the teenager thing--it didn't help that Billie Piper actually looked like a young woman in her 20's but was written as a highschooler (her actions and dialogue belied that). I thought that Smith and Kingston had great chemistry despite the fact that Kingston is 20 years older, but I did think that the Capaldi/Kingston scenes brought a deeper resonance to their relationship. I do think that the writers of the new Who universe don't do particularly well with female characters--usually they introduce some device (Rory for example) to attempt to remove any romantic connotation between the younger doctors and their companions, some of which work (Rory) and some don't. I also highly resent the way they had to keep insisting that Donna and 10 weren't partners, I didn't need their relationship to be defined so literally. Then again, I am adult and sometimes forget that this is a "children's show" and children apparently are unable to make certain distinctions, LOL.

I was shocked when I saw an episode where Rose said she was 19.  I thought she was a good bit older than that.

I read that the reason they emphasize that the relationships are not romantic is because when they wrote Rose off the show, viewers were LIVID, absolutely up in arms.  That why they had to make a way for a version of the Doctor to end up with her.  They wanted to make certain that couldn't happen again, so they developed workarounds.  I loved the relationship between the Doctor and Donna, and thought the A&R were just a delight.  

To be fair, I've only seen 1 episode with River and Capaldi and that was the super-sweet Husbands one.  So my experience with her was largely with Smith.  It helped that he managed, so well, to convey a older man in a younger man's body.  I had no problems believing their romance.

[Chaos Theory]

13 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

To be honest, i thought River was plagued by the same problem that Clara (who i didn't hate and really doubt had anything to with Smith or Capaldi not staying longer) did: she was a Moffat idea that he had no real sense of how to maintain but refused to let be a one-off or even a short character.  River's best moment was in the library but no....she had to be Amy and Rory's daughter.  Clara was great so long as she was just the Dalek and the woman at Christmas.  But no...she has to be the one who would go back and save ALL of the Doctor's and even make sure he picked the right Tardis.  If she had just been a puzzle who just returned because the Doctor figured it out that would have been one thing.  But Moffat's woman-idea characters never develop in any meaningful way.  It just becomes too much.  But he can't let them go into he has worn out their welcome.

I disagree on the River Song point.  I actually thought the entire River Song is Amy and Rory's child was one of the more brilliant things Moffat did.  Then again I thought the vast majority of the Amy and Rory romance bordered on brilliant.  

[smorbie]

I did, too.  It was incredibly sweet and believable.

[Mabinogia]

36 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I actually thought the entire River Song is Amy and Rory's child was one of the more brilliant things Moffat did.

Goes to show, you can't please everyone. I thought River Song being Melody Pond was one of the stupidest, most twee things he's ever done. If River had just been a space archeologist he had fallen for at some point I might not have hated that relationship as much as I did. But she had to be the miracle child of his companion. It's too incestuous for me. No, Moffitt, not every single thing needs to be connected.

That's why I'm hoping Bill is just some random chick he met, not related to anyone, not someone he met when she was a child, not someone who got struck by a lightening bolt he deflected years ago to save something else. Nope, just a girl, curious, fun and excited to have this once in a lifetime experience.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Mabinogia

[Chaos Theory]

I liked the circular nature of the Doctor and River's relationship.  Their romance happening in the wrong direction, in the wrong order.  Two people in quite literally different places in their lives and yet every once in awhile.....

[ganesh]

I don't have a problem with her being Amy and Rory's daughter, but 

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

I liked the circular nature of the Doctor and River's relationship.  Their romance happening in the wrong direction, in the wrong order.  Two people in quite literally different places in their lives and yet every once in awhile.....

 

this is a good enough character backstory too. Not everything has to be A Thing. 

[Bruinsfan]

One thing I wondered about was River having dossiers on all 12 previous Doctors but no knowledge of Capaldi's. Did the Time Lords' intervention in "The Time of the Doctor" from outside the universe mean that the Doctor's survival is itself an acausal event that wasn't reflected in the timeline as a whole? Does every action the 12th Doctor takes anywhere change history, by dint of him existing when he shouldn't?

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[Jamie Satyr]

19 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

One thing I wondered about was River having dossiers on all 11 previous Doctors but no knowledge of Capaldi's. Did the Time Lords' intervention in "The Time of the Doctor" from outside the universe mean that the Doctor's survival is itself an acausal event that wasn't reflected in the timeline as a whole? Does every action the 12th Doctor takes anywhere change history, by dint of him existing when he shouldn't?

That's what bothered me the most about River; "all knowing, all seeing," except when Capaldi's right in front of her! Looked as if The Doctor was getting a kick out of seeing her manic state and a little out of control! Normally she's a couple steps in front of him going back to "The Library!" What an idea; 2 entities living in opposite directions, but her knowing more than him throughout their brief encounters! ;-)

Edited April 18, 2017 by Jamie Satyr

[Chaos Theory]

I might be remembering this wrong but isn't Capaldi technically an add on?  So it's possible that River Song only had the faces of the lives he was originally given not the pluses.

[Eulipian 5k]

9 minutes ago, Jamie Satyr said:

One thing I wondered about was River having dossiers on all 11 previous Doctors but no knowledge of Capaldi's. Did the Time Lords' intervention in "The Time of the Doctor" from outside the universe mean that the Doctor's survival is itself an acausal event that wasn't reflected in the timeline as a whole? Does every action the 12th Doctor takes anywhere change history, by dint of him existing when he shouldn't?

Why would she know any other Doctor before Tennant? She "met" him when she was about to go straight to the Library to "die"/be saved; She was born during Smith's incarnation and "met" Capaldi some where in between. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Jamie Satyr]

16 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Why would she know any other Doctor before Tennant? She "met" him when she was about to go straight to the Library to "die"/be saved; She was born during Smith's incarnation and "met" Capaldi some where in between. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I think production & writers got off their acid trips to end River this side of reality! lol! ;-)

[call me ishmael]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I disagree on the River Song point.  I actually thought the entire River Song is Amy and Rory's child was one of the more brilliant things Moffat did.  Then again I thought the vast majority of the Amy and Rory romance bordered on brilliant.  

I loved Amy and Rory (Amy remains my favorite modern companion) but the River Song thing just was too contrived.  Everything has to be connected to everything else in Moffat world.  I'm surprised we haven't discovered that Clara was River's nanny when Melody was borrowing the Doctor's crib. 

[rur]

7 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm surprised we haven't discovered that Clara was River's nanny when Melody was borrowing the Doctor's crib. 

I love River, but . . . Take that back! Take it back right now, before it gets out into the moffatverse!

[Suzysite]

Apparently I'm hugely in the minority, because I HATED this. It took me forever to warm up to Capaldi, and now that I have, of course there's a companion I just cannot stand.   I'd literally take a thousand Claras over this one.  And it makes me sad because I have loved this show since the reboot, including the companions. 

I hate thinking I'll be out, but it's looking that way. 

[Jamie Satyr]

23 minutes ago, Suzysite said:

Apparently I'm hugely in the minority, because I HATED this. It took me forever to warm up to Capaldi, and now that I have, of course there's a companion I just cannot stand.   I'd literally take a thousand Claras over this one.  And it makes me sad because I have loved this show since the reboot, including the companions. 

I hate thinking I'll be out, but it's looking that way. 

Been with it since the 60's with the 2 Cushing movies; you have to go with the flow! Sooner or later it gels into something you'll like! lol! Heaven knows the McCoy years were lost on me, the one Dalek & Cybermen episodes saved his tenure! ;-)

[ratgirlagogo]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

I might be remembering this wrong but isn't Capaldi technically an add on?

 

yes! and gawd how I hate that little clunker of a land mine thrown into future storytelling.  All of a sudden there's a FINITE number of regenerations????  Oh, fuck off cleverclogs.

[Jamie Satyr]

29 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

yes! and gawd how I hate that little clunker of a land mine thrown into future storytelling.  All of a sudden there's a FINITE number of regenerations????  Oh, fuck off cleverclogs.

Well in "Hell Bent," Rassilon mused about "how many regenerations did we give you? I have all night" as he raised the Glove of Rassilon to take the Doctor's life again and again when he was demanding information about "The Hybrid!" ;-)

Edited April 18, 2017 by Jamie Satyr

[ratgirlagogo]

18 minutes ago, Jamie Satyr said:

how many regenerations did we give you? I have all night

Oh, I know, and likely it will just be retcon shitcanned by future writers if they have any sense.  But why put it out there in the first place?

[HauntedBathroom]

30 minutes ago, ratgirlagogo said:

yes! and gawd how I hate that little clunker of a land mine thrown into future storytelling.  All of a sudden there's a FINITE number of regenerations????  Oh, fuck off cleverclogs.

There's been a finite number of regenerations since 1976. It's Robert Holmes you need to blame for that.

[ratgirlagogo]

4 minutes ago, HauntedBathroom said:

There's been a finite number of regenerations since 1976. It's Robert Holmes you need to blame for that.

Thanks, I did know this didn't start with Moffat, sorry if my post gave that impression.  But I didn't remember it was from that far back - I would have said the mid-80's so again thanks.  

Edited April 18, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[Bruinsfan]

Rassilon's words do indicate that it might not be an extra standard 12 regeneration cycle the Doctor was given, though. Rebooting him involved enough spare energy to blow up a Dalek armada, and Davros was able to reanimate how many Daleks by draining him? Considering it took 50 years to get through the first twelve, his remaining regenerations might never become an issue.

[angora]

Color me cautiously optimistic.  Dare I hope that Moffat's last season not collapse under the weight of its own cleverness and self-importance?  Maybe that's foolhardy, but even though the episode had its issues, it was probably my favorite season premiere (or even half-season premiere, if we wanna count Let's Kill Hitler and The Bells of St. John as well) since at least The Eleventh Hour.

After a rocky start with the story about the girl and the chips, Bill came around for me and I enjoyed her quite a bit.  With both Amy and Clara, it seemed evident to me that the Doctor was inviting them along mostly for the mystery and/or feelings of guilt at leaving them for 12 years/watching two previous versions of them die, not for qualities that they demonstrated during their first adventure with him (in The Eleventh Hour, I feel like it was actually Rory who did more companion-y stuff.)  Bill, though, gets in right away with the Excellent Questions, the poking around to satisfy her curiosity, and the making of good intuitive leaps.  She loves to learn new things for their own sake, she pays attention, she speaks up for herself, and at this point, she seems to appreciate the Doctor without being in awe of him.  All good things in my book, and I'm feeling hopeful about her interactions with the Doctor.

I've pretty much always loved Twelve, and I thought Capaldi was great here.  I'm glad that, even though we got another "the Doctor's been hanging out in the same spot for decades" situation, it's because he's been given a task to do by a mysterious Someone rather than mourning the loss of his last companion/swearing off traveling or helping people.  Those scenarios have never REALLY felt like the Doctor to me, and while I still don't know if I can buy that he'd (mostly) stay put for 70 years, I'm willing to go with it, mostly because I liked his office so much.  I enjoyed what little we got of his lectures, and I laughed at his perplexed/disappointed reaction to Bill giving him a rug for Christmas.  I also liked that, despite apparently being in a non-companion mindset, he still took an interest in Bill and was trying to help further her learning just because.

I agree that the "engine oil" was like a cross between Midnight and The Waters of Mars, both of which did it better, but I still mostly liked it.  It helped that the entire universe wasn't at stake, and the personal connection with Bill carried it through even when the individual details felt like a retread.

[Lokiberry]

On 4/17/2017 at 3:05 PM, benteen said:

Much as I'm not happy with it, I strongly suspect Clara will return in some capacity when it comes time for 12 to regenerate.  Not based on spoilers or anything but I feel we haven't seen the last of her.  Not until we have a new Doctor and a new showrunner.

12's likeability has picked up since Clara has been gone.  Those two were toxic together, something I'm amazed Moffat confirmed last season in Hell Bent.

Of course she will, somebody has to smirk down at him while he breathes his last. Also, since her TARDIS got stuck in the form of the diner he visited with the Ponds, it does suggest that she's been traveling through time creeping on him. I wonder if she followed him to Darillium and hid under the bed. Wouldn't be the first time.

Anyway, I've watched The Pilot three times now, and when the Doctor is standing by the TARDIS, inviting Bill to join him he says "maybe someday you'll find him". Who does he mean? Her father? We haven't been told anything about him.

[smorbie]

18 hours ago, Suzysite said:

Apparently I'm hugely in the minority, because I HATED this. It took me forever to warm up to Capaldi, and now that I have, of course there's a companion I just cannot stand.   I'd literally take a thousand Claras over this one.  And it makes me sad because I have loved this show since the reboot, including the companions. 

I hate thinking I'll be out, but it's looking that way. 

I'm so sorry you feel that way.  It took a long time for me to like Capaldi, too, but then Matt Smith will always be MY Doctor.

[cardigirl]

On 4/17/2017 at 11:16 PM, Bruinsfan said:

I just cross my fingers that Clara never was never interested enough in asking the Doctor about his pre-Clara adventures for the events of  "The Doctor's Wife" to come up with an accompanying warning about House.

House is gone, so Clara and her TARDIS are safe.

30 minutes ago, Lokiberry said:

Anyway, I've watched The Pilot three times now, and when the Doctor is standing by the TARDIS, inviting Bill to join him he says "maybe someday you'll find him". Who does he mean? Her father? We haven't been told anything about him.

I thought he said "find her" refering to the watery space-fuel girl.