S12.E17: The British Invasion

[Diane]

THE WINCHESTERS FIND KELLY KLINE – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) get a lead on Kelly Kline’s (guest star Courtney Ford) whereabouts. Mick (guest star Adam Fergus) drops by the bunker unexpectedly and decides to join the hunt. Writer: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, Director: John F. Showalter.

[catrox14]

Eh, it's Thursday somewhere!

Given this is a BuckLemming episode...I'm including this one

 

 

[catrox14]

?????

Found this on the interwebz.

BuckLemming Bingo

 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Shall we play?

[SueB]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Shall we play?

GREETINGS PROFESSOR FALKEN,

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?

 

Sorry, my inner geek is showing...

Personally I don't mind it for this ONE episode, but it's based in "the writers are shit" mentality so I personally would prefer it be played in the "games" thread".

[ILoveReading]

My inner horror geek default.

[Diane]

12 minutes ago, SueB said:

GREETINGS PROFESSOR FALKEN,

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?

 

Sorry, my inner geek is showing...

Personally I don't mind it for this ONE episode, but it's based in "the writers are shit" mentality so I personally would prefer it be played in the "games" thread".

I agree, can it be taken to the "games thread"

[RulerofallIsurvey]

35 minutes ago, SueB said:

but it's based in "the writers are shit" mentality so I personally would prefer it be played in the "games" thread".

Perhaps then the writers' or bitterness thread would be more appropriate?

[SueB]

1 minute ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Perhaps then the writers' or bitterness thread would be more appropriate?

I'd just put it games with a warning label.  The site seems to prefer games be in games. 

[DittyDotDot]

See, and here I just thought @RulerofallIsurvey was just making a joke. ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Well.... ;)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

GREETINGS PROFESSOR FALKEN,

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?

 

Sorry, my inner geek is showing...

Personally I don't mind it for this ONE episode, but it's based in "the writers are shit" mentality so I personally would prefer it be played in the "games" thread".

Okay, you guys took this way too seriously. I thought it was hilarious given how pretty much everyone who posts here seems to agree that BL are the worst and everything on that bingo card has at least one or two things  we have ALL  complained at one time or another with their writing. I certainly didn't  think it was going to be treated as an actual game to be played on this blog.

Dang

[bethy]

I think the card is funny whether it leads to actual play or not! Though it is missing a "sex with animals" square, so....

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, bethy said:

I think the card is funny whether it leads to actual play or not! Though it is missing a "sex with animals" square, so....

 

7 minutes ago, bethy said:

I think the card is funny whether it leads to actual play or not! Though it is missing a "sex with animals" square, so....

LOOL. Good point!

[SueB]

@catrox14

1) EXCELLENT RON BURGANDY MEME USAGE
2) I think the card is hilarious 

Edited April 6, 2017 by SueB

[Morrigan2575]

Alright the BMOL need to DIE! They better not kill Eileen. I had a feeling something bad was going to happen to Nick with all the attention spent on his backstory.  Damn, I really started liking him.

[ILoveReading]

That played out exactly like I thought it would.

Why is Dean not even questioning where the Colt came from. 

[Jediknight]

I'm really liking this season.  They've done a good job of making the British Men of Letters a threat.

I'm not a fan of Mick being killed though.  But at least his death had a reason behind it, besides it being shocking, they're showing just how ruthless the British Men of Letters can be, they killed one of their own.

And you've gotta laugh at the main lady being Dr Hess.  Earlier this season we got Hitler, now we get a Dr Hess, so who's next Goebbels, Himmler, or Mengele?  What better way to show that humans can be just as bad or worse than demons?

I loved seeing Eileen again, just please don't kill her.  Let her survive and her and Sam get together.

[Res]

Another one that wasn't really worth watching. Should've known. So tired of them dragging these boring storylines out.

[MysteryGuest]

Well, things have certainly gone south quickly.  I didn't expect Mick to be killed, so that was a surprise.  I actually thought for a moment that Ketch might take his side, but I guess once a psychopathic killer, always a psychopathic killer.  

Why, exactly would they waste their time shooting at a Prince of Hell with regular bullets?  I know that they had the Colt, but they were all shooting at her.  Seems like a pretty crap plan since they had to assume she'd show up.

I took my dog outside during the Lucifer scenes...I just can't watch him anymore.

[Katy M]

I felt bad for Mick.  The BMOLs ARE monsters.  Not separated from monsters. Who the heck sets children to killing each other?  Sick. 

After being so smart a couple of weeks ago, looks like Crowley lost a couple of brain cells. 

If nephilism is always fatal to the mother, shouldn't angels know that?  Shouldn't they have realized Lily Sunder's kid couldn't have been a Nephilim if Lily was still alive? 

Not sad that Rennie died, although I do feel bad for Eileen.  I think that might have been the first time she killed a human.  If she only knew, she might not feel so bad.

I'm not sure how I feel about them having the Colt again.  But, seeing as how most monsters nowadays are no match for the Winchesters, I guess the gun won't take too much suspense out.

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why is Dean not even questioning where the Colt came from. 

Where did the Colt come from?  Eileen had it last.  Didn't she just leave it when she left?  Mick couldn't have possibly taken it from her, or did I miss that exchange?

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Why, exactly would they waste their time shooting at a Prince of Hell with regular bullets?

Nothing better to do?  Sam had dropped the Colt, so it was either shoot with regular bullets or do nothing.  Nothing might have been a better choice.  Kind of like when bobby shot Lucifer with a regular gun.  that didn't end so well for him and was pretty pointless.

[MysteryGuest]

The BMOL are certainly living up to their reputation.  I wonder if there's a trip to England in the boys future?  I think they need to be wiped out, Styne style.  Maybe it will be Sam and Dean who kidnap Lady Toni's son to get some leverage against her?  

[Katy M]

Just now, MysteryGuest said:

The BMOL are certainly living up to their reputation.  I wonder if there's a trip to England in the boys future?  I think they need to be wiped out, Styne style.  Maybe it will be Sam and Dean who kidnap Lady Toni's son to get some leverage against her?  

No, the kid didn't do anything wrong.  Kidnapping him would make them worse, or at least as bad as the BMOLs.

[ILoveReading]

One bright spot, at least it looks like Dean's instincts were correct once again about the BMoLs being bad news.

[Jediknight]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

No, the kid didn't do anything wrong.  Kidnapping him would make them worse, or at least as bad as the BMOLs.

And he's innocent, doing something like that would go completely against Sam and Dean's characters.

[Katy M]

BTW, am I the only one who didn't need Mary-Ketch sex?

[MysteryGuest]

Just now, Katy M said:

No, the kid didn't do anything wrong.  Kidnapping him would make them worse, or at least as bad as the BMOLs.

Well, I don't mean that they would harm the child, just that they would use him to get to her.  There has to be a reason why we were shown that she has a child at the very beginning of the season.  He has to come into play at some point.

It looks like just a regular monster-of-the-week episode next week, so it'll be interesting to see how long it takes Sam and Dean to figure out what's going on.  I wonder if Ketch will start taking out some of the lesser hunters first?

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, Jediknight said:

I loved seeing Eileen again, just please don't kill her.  Let her survive and her and Sam get together.

Bahaha, all I kept thinking through the episode was "Sam keep your death peen away from Eileen!"

They would be cute together but, I don't want Eileen to die.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[G-Man]

I gotta say i felt bad for Mick wish he left on good terms with winchesters. Also hope Eileen okay 

Well intersting to see what Crowley would do when Lucifer gets rid of Cage's warding a bit netural on Dagon at the moment 

Skip over Mary scenes I'm still loving the writing on her so far ?

Yep just like the Mary and Ketch scene I'm really looking forward to see next weeks filler rather than finding out what's happening to Cas in heaven ?

Edited April 7, 2017 by G-Man

[Boopsahoy]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

BTW, am I the only one who didn't need Mary-Ketch sex?

It just confirmed how I feel about her.

[MysteryGuest]

Yeah, the Cas story has sort of been left hanging for weeks now.  I wonder just how much time is supposed to have passed since he went to Heaven?  

I'm going to assume that they had Mary sleep with Ketch so that just maybe he will have a moment's hesitation when it comes to killing her, and that might be the edge they need when the time comes.  Otherwise, I have no clue.

[companionenvy]

Well, that was dumb. Entertaining enough, but dumb. 

Look, I don't believe every villain needs to have shades of gray. But if your villain is not a total psychopath who just enjoys killing because it is fun, they should have something approaching a rational motivation for his actions. "I killed person X because I wanted their job/money/spouse/" is not a sympathetic motivation, but it is a logical course of action. "I killed person X because he was a member of a minority group I hate" is a repugnant motivation, and not logical, in that bigotry isn't logical, but it makes sense according to the killer's internal, albeit warped, version of reality, which starts with the assumption that a certain group of people is lesser and perhaps dangerous. 

Ketch is, in that respect, a plausible villain. He does not actually care about saving people at all, and embraces the MOL because it gives him a vaguely acceptable outlet for killing things. Which he enjoys, because he is a psychopath. 

As of today, the MOL as an organization, on the other hand, is not a remotely plausible group of villains. Believing that monsters need to be killed, no exceptions is wrong, but it is a reasonable position to take. Believing that sometimes, humans who might interfere with the MOL's mission also need to be killed is less understandable, but still within the realm of rational human behavior. Believing that Sam and Dean Winchester are too dangerous to live is....personally upsetting to us, but, honestly, not  a completely insane perspective, given their track record.

Deciding to kill every American hunter is absurd overkill, and not a credible tactic for an organization that, at least ostensibly, wants to save lives. Barring some disclosure I'm now pretty sure isn't coming, the members of the MOL, by and large, do not think of themselves as villains. You can do plenty of villainous things and still convince yourself that you're the good guy, but I don't think there's logic tortured enough to get someone who has any pretense of the moral high ground to go from "these hunters won't work with us" to "every single one of them must be eliminated." If they were all actively working against the MOL, sure. If they were harboring monsters, OK. But the idea that because, essentially, you think someone is bad at his or her job and won't make nice with you, they should be on your hitlist, is snidely whiplash territory.

Having a policy of killing any person who kills a MOL in a friendly fire incident is idiotic. No army in the world, that I am aware of, has ever had such a policy, because it makes zero sense. It isn't a deterrent to others, because friendly fire is an accident. It doesn't protect your organization from the killer because, again, accident. In fact, it puts your people in more danger, because if by chance someone should discover this policy, you've just given anyone who accidentally kills one of your members a really, really good motivation for killing any other MOL on the scene. 

Having a policy of choosing your members by having two children fight to the death is SO CRAZY BONKERS BANANAS it really doesn't even bear further discussion. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by companionenvy

[bethy]

Sorry, Mary, some things are either/or. And in this situation, you can choose to put your sons first or you can choose to put the shady organization that's blindly killing everything it considers monsters first. Trying to have it all when it comes to right and wrong, generally doesn't work.

Really sad to see Mick go. I'd rather have kept him and lost Mary at this point, honestly. 

If hunters are dogs and Ketch slept with Mary, I think maybe these writers have managed to hit their usual "sex worth animals" note.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Having a policy of choosing your members by having two children fight to the death is SO CRAZY BONKERS BANANAS it really doesn't even bear further discussion. 

Adding to that, Mick was an orphan, but that other kid most definitely was not.  He was talking about going home for Christmas.  Assuming the parents, or at least the father, was an BMOL, why would you be OK with that.  That's some pretty heartless stuff right there.  Sending your kid into a death battle.  And, do they always pick best friends to fight each other?  What happens if they don't fight?  I'm assuming both are killed.  That other kid said nobody was watching the door, but you know there was no way they could have escaped if they tried.

[Jediknight]

21 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Deciding to kill every American hunter is absurd overkill, and not a credible tactic for an organization that, at least ostensibly, wants to save lives. Barring some disclosure I'm now pretty sure isn't coming, the members of the MOL, by and large, do not think of themselves as villains. You can do plenty of villainous things and still convince yourself that you're the good guy, but I don't think there's logic tortured enough to get someone who has any pretense of the moral high ground to go from "these hunters won't work with us" to "every single one of them must be eliminated." If they were all actively working against the MOL, sure. If they were harboring monsters, OK. But the idea that because, essentially, you think someone is bad at his or her job and won't make nice with you, they should be on your hitlist, is snidely whiplash territory.

Having a policy of killing any person who kills a MOL in a friendly fire incident is idiotic. No army in the world, that I am aware of, has ever had such a policy, because it makes zero sense. It isn't a deterrent to others, because friendly fire is an accident. It doesn't protect your organization from the killer because, again, accident. In fact, it puts your people in more danger, because if by chance someone should discover this policy, you've just given anyone who accidentally kills one of your members a really, really good motivation for killing any other MOL on the scene.

They'll cover up how Eileen killed the guy, and say she did it on purpose, basically saying that the American hunters who have failed their country are declaring war on the British Men of Letters who have protected Britain and wiped out monsters.  It will be propaganda to show that the American hunters need to be wiped out, her name is Hess, that wasn't a coincidence by the writers.  This is their Reichstag Fire, it will allow the higher ups in the British Men of Letters to do whatever they want.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Jediknight

[rue721]

16 minutes ago, bethy said:

If hunters are dogs and Ketch slept with Mary, I think maybe these writers have managed to hit their usual "sex worth animals" note.

Yup! And did you catch the look on Ketch's face after she made the dog comment? He looked like the cat who ate the canary. Ketch's character is dumb but I kind of love the actor.

[catrox14]

Fuck you, Mary.  Oh, Ketch did. 

Done with Mary. Done. Done. Done.

Way to ruin a character, show. JFC.

[HunterHunted]

33 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Well, that was dumb. Entertaining enough, but dumb. 

Look, I don't believe every villain needs to have shades of gray. But if your villain is not a total psychopath who just enjoys killing because it is fun, they should have something approaching a rational motivation for his actions. "I killed person X because I wanted their job/money/spouse/" is not a sympathetic motivation, but it is a logical course of action. "I killed person X because he was a member of a minority group I hate" is a repugnant motivation, and not logical, in that bigotry isn't logical, but it makes sense according to the killer's internal, albeit warped, version of reality, which starts with the assumption that a certain group of people is lesser and perhaps dangerous. 

Ketch is, in that respect, a plausible villain. He does not actually care about saving people at all, and embraces the MOL because it gives him a vaguely acceptable outlet for killing things. Which he enjoys, because he is a psychopath. 

As of today, the MOL as an organization, on the other hand, is not a remotely plausible group of villains. Believing that monsters need to be killed, no exceptions is wrong, but it is a reasonable position to take. Believing that sometimes, humans who might interfere with the MOL's mission also need to be killed is less understandable, but still within the realm of rational human behavior. Believing that Sam and Dean Winchester are too dangerous to live is....personally upsetting to us, but, honestly, not  a completely insane perspective, given their track record.

Deciding to kill every American hunter is absurd overkill, and not a credible tactic for an organization that, at least ostensibly, wants to save lives. Barring some disclosure I'm now pretty sure isn't coming, the members of the MOL, by and large, do not think of themselves as villains. You can do plenty of villainous things and still convince yourself that you're the good guy, but I don't think there's logic tortured enough to get someone who has any pretense of the moral high ground to go from "these hunters won't work with us" to "every single one of them must be eliminated." If they were all actively working against the MOL, sure. If they were harboring monsters, OK. But the idea that because, essentially, you think someone is bad at his or her job and won't make nice with you, they should be on your hitlist, is snidely whiplash territory.

Having a policy of killing any person who kills a MOL in a friendly fire incident is idiotic. No army in the world, that I am aware of, has ever had such a policy, because it makes zero sense. It isn't a deterrent to others, because friendly fire is an accident. It doesn't protect your organization from the killer because, again, accident. In fact, it puts your people in more danger, because if by chance someone should discover this policy, you've just given anyone who accidentally kills one of your members a really, really good motivation for killing any other MOL on the scene. 

Having a policy of choosing your members by having two children fight to the death is SO CRAZY BONKERS BANANAS it really doesn't even bear further discussion. 

I hate being a thiser, but THIS!!!!!!!!! The code about killing anyone who kills a BMOL is phenomenally stupid for all of the reasons you've given. Additionally, the BMOL seem to love smugly swanning about pontificating about everything they know about the supernatural and the Winchesters, but the BMOL seem to be remarkably ignorant about the knights and princes of hell, the first blade, the mark of Cain, the various tablets angel and demon, Lucifer, God/Chuck, Amara, and how attached the powers that be are to Sam and Dean. God has literally brought Sam and Dean back from the dead over and over again. If the BMOL had any understanding of this, they wouldn't be so cavalier about wanting to kill the Winchesters.

The BMOL are essentially operating under the incorrect assumption that because they've handled all of their monsters, the BMOL way is the correct way. That's as wrong-headed as thinking the earth is the center of the solar system. For all intents and purposes, the Winchesters are the sun. They are the single most important humans on the planet. There are a ton of threats that the BMOL are completely unfamiliar with because they've never bothered to pay attention to all of the things that orbit the Winchesters.

Edited April 7, 2017 by HunterHunted

[companionenvy]

13 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

They'll cover up how Eileen killed the guy, and say she did it on purpose, basically saying that the American hunters who have failed their country are declaring war on the British Men of Letters who have protected Britain and wiped out monsters.  It will be propaganda to show that the American hunters need to be wiped out, her name is Hess, that wasn't a coincidence by the writers.  This is their Reichstag Fire, it will allow the higher ups in the British Men of Letters to do whatever they want.

I would buy that, except for the fact that apparently the BMOL has an established code that calls for anyone who kills a member, no exceptions. Mick, who knew the circumstances and clearly wasn't in on any big plan to frame an American hunter immediately went to kill Eileen, as per SOP.

[Macbeth]

I really loved last week's show and for that I must pay horribly.  I guess TPTB borrowed Negan's bat and aimed it at my heart. 

So the one BMOL that was decent and enjoyable to watch was viciously murdered.  So he's out. Now we have a Band of Psychopaths.  It's not that they want to indiscriminately kill monsters - they have no problems indiscriminately killing humans.  In fact you can't become a BMOL without a human sacrifice.  Apparently someone watched TWD and learned all the wrong lessons - without any of the skill of that show's execution - pun intended.

There was one nice scene with Sam comforting Eileen (using sign language for mistake).  The next time we checked in on the boys - she was on her way to Ireland  WTF. 

We get a shirtless shot of Ketch?  Well that would be the shirtless torture scene for the fans.   Take one for the team Jensen.  One scene of you sleeping in bed with your shirt off.  The fans are happy, and you can get some rest.

And apparently Crowley underwent a lobotomy.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Macbeth

[Goldmoon]

Think hearing Mary's sudden and ooc  ode to her sons was put in to quell the complaints about her.  Made me roll my eyes. Doubt if the writers intended that. Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series featured female assassin's/soldiers who were so warped by their training, which included rape and other torture, that their final test was to kill their parents to prove they could follow orders. The school was a ridiculous paeon to that mentality. I continue to feel that Dean and Sam are guest stars. Are we meant to infer that Eileen spent some ... Quality time ... With Sam?

[ahrtee]

21 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I would buy that, except for the fact that apparently the BMOL has an established code that calls for anyone who kills a member, no exceptions. Mick, who knew the circumstances and clearly wasn't in on any big plan to frame an American hunter immediately went to kill Eileen, as per SOP.

But Mary killed Lady Whatsit's psychopathic helper way back in ep. 1 or 2.  Nobody ever mentioned it (or her) again. (And yes, I just checked the transcript to make sure she was really BMoL and she did say she was "one of them," though maybe she was considered an expendable flunky?)  And: 

(from the Wiki:  

TONI: I have Sam Winchester. He's close to breaking. Just leave me be.

MICK: No can do. You disobeyed orders. Oh, and you should know, your Ms. Watt – quite dead. Courtesy of Dean Winchester and friends.

 

So both Toni and Mick knew that someone had killed one of theirs before they even showed up to rescue Sam, but Mick was still playing the good guy to try to recruit them. And even Lady T didn't say anything about the death of her assistant.  So much for the Code of "kill anyone who kills a BMoL immediately."

Edited April 7, 2017 by ahrtee

[Mick Lady]

Sorry I missed your cue catrox! Mick and I were rototilling all day.

Needless to say, were bummed Mick died! The whole show sucked. Given the writers though, we expected it.

[Mick Lady]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

If nephilism is always fatal to the mother, shouldn't angels know that?  Shouldn't they have realized Lily Sunder's kid couldn't have been a Nephilim if Lily was still alive? 

Now Katy, you should know better by now than to expect writers to follow canon!

[Ria]

I had come to like Mitch. Of course it's pointless to get invested in any character other than Sam, Dean and Cas (and I'm beginning to have concerns for his future) because the show kills every damn one of them off. How many years now has this show been going on and still the same old thing. 

[Mick Lady]

39 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

And apparently Crowley underwent a lobotomy.

Beat line of the night! Perfect analysis.

[ILoveReading]

Hopefully Dean and Sam are smart enough to change the locks.

[Dobian]

I liked Hogwarts at the start of the episode.

[Commando Cody]

This episode totally frustrated me. The British Men of Letters taking over America. Being total assholes. I just want them all dead. After Ketch shot Mick and the gun was still pointing at Hess, I was thinking "You might as well shoot her too".  More like - please shoot her as well. 

Almost a total blackout on that bingo card. 

[rue721]

Shouldn't Hess have then killed Ketch because Ketch killed a BMOL?

And then she would have to kill herself, I guess?!

This "kill anyone who kills a BMOL" code seems really difficult to enforce.