S05.E06: Crossbreed

[J-Man]

Paige being taken to meet Gabriel reminded me of Guy introducing Rosemary to the Castevets ("Rosemary's Baby.")

So at the beginning, when P&E were explaining about the true nature of the wheat research to Gabriel, he said something about continuing to work two of their targets. One of them was obviously Ben, but was the other one Philip's Topeka mark (Deirdre)? If so, there was no more mention of that plotline in this episode.

[picklesprite]

Oh, show, don't take Frank Langella away from us! He grounds the show as well as P&E. That wonderful deep voice, that deliberate, soft, sedate manner of speaking, that face that can give them the most murderous and dangerous assignments while still managing to look thoughtful and kind. . .he's just the best. If you're going to take him away, can he please be my granddad for a while? Only maybe skip the assignments?

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, minamurray78 said:

Philip and Elizabeth know ansolutely NOTHING about Henry. And it doesn't even concerned them. They're not even worried that they know shit about their son, who just pulled a secret Math Genious from under them without them noticing.

I think that's an exaggeration. They know plenty about Henry from living with him. That's partly why they were so surprised by the math thing. Not because they couldn't believe he could have an aptitude for it, but because he was suddenly working at it. I mean, it's not like Henry is "really Henry" only when he's with his friends. The snarky teenager who mostly communicates by complaining about petty things or plays video games is also Henry. That's part of what's making the misunderstanding get worse. Philip and Elizabeth thought he was a slacker. And what happens when Philip asks about his new math class? Henry keeps saying "It's easy" because in his mind it's about him being smart. So he basically just keeps reiterating that it's easy, so he's not working at it. He's trying to tell them he's smart and valuable, they're hearing that he's arrogant and lazy. They're trying to encourage him to work harder, he hears them saying he's feeble-minded.

4 hours ago, Sighed I said:

So what was the purpose of introducing her to Gabe? It does seems strange, given the Center's interest in Paige and the shaky ground both E & P are on about the rightness of what they are doing (even if E has been able to hide it so far). If they're not even sure about their own lives, why would they subject her to this (I'm especially looking at you, Philip)?

I think it was purely about family. Gabriel basically is their family, Philip was sad about not knowing his own, they're going to miss Gabriel. He's leaving, so it's not like he's going to be mentoring her as a spy. It's showing her themselves by letting her meet this guy.

 

3 hours ago, Erin9 said:

I think the thing with Henry right now is he's a pretty normal kid. He's frustrated that he thinks he's 2nd to Paige and that his parents didn't think he was smart, but as his teacher said, he's basically a good kid. They do need to pay more attention to him, try harder no doubt. Sadly, and I don't blame Henry for this, but he hasn't really demanded their attention, and he's obviously not a trouble maker, which would also get their attention. Paige forces it- has since S2. The Centre demands it. He doesn't. Henry has played video games- even when he had the opportunity to engage with the family, apparently started focusing on math, met a girl he likes, and snarked at his parents- only to immediately retreat. But he hasn't pushed to make himself known to his parents. Or asked them questions about their lives. And his parents are stretched super thin. I think they will. It seems like part of the point of Philip's memories surfacing is to lead him to change his relationships with his kids, but we'll see. 

Yes, I agree. And add to that the thing I mentioned above, that basically Henry's way of expressing his frustration actually encourages his parents to keep thinking of him as a slacker. His parents are doing the same thing. They keep dealing with him and Paige that encourage his impression that they value her more. I especially think the point's important that there's plenty of scenes where Henry is with the rest of the family, but ignoring them for a video game, handheld or on the computer. When he broke into the neighbor's house it was also blamed on the parents not being there even though Henry had actually blown off his father starting a conversation so he could lie and break into the house.

It's not that the situation is Henry's fault--the biggest problem is the focus on Paige coming from his parents because of the Secret. At this point they don't even notice how much they're doing it. It's really just this math thing that gave Henry an excuse to say anything about it and they still don't get it.

2 hours ago, jjj said:

I don't think anyone has talked about this:  who was the woman that Phillip and his two KGB co-workers (woman with the glasses and African-American man)were stalking and photographing? 

Marilyn and...I forget the guy's name. They're recruits that do the kind of work that Hans used to do. RIP Hans.

Quote

The Center certainly had no problem with murdering a child.

The Centre didn't kill either of the Connors kids. Claudia said they were broken up about it and Claudia's pretty honest about these things. Not that they wouldn't kill children in general, but they're not targeting Illegals kids.

Quote

Paige has been kept ignorant of the fact that when it comes down to it, she doesn't actually have a choice in any of this short of going on the run and watching her back for the rest of her life.

The Centre says she does have a choice--and I don't think it's a lie. I mean, Paige knows she doesn't have a choice about lying to protect her parents since that's already her reality, but she doesn't have to become a spy for them. Sure the Centre could decide to threaten her parents to make her etc., but I could just as easily believe that they would be smart enough to know they can't force something this delicate. If they're going by reality, the kids were never as far as we know forced into spying. They're hoping to get willing recruits with these kids. You can't get a second generation illegal through blackmail. It's too important a position for life. Part of their job involves identifying people who can't be turned enough.

Of course, they could write a story where Paige is coerced and Philip is coerced into letting her coerced etc. But it's not a set plan that only Paige doesn't know about. Philip and Elizabeth are operating under the understanding that of course Paige would have to agree. As spies themselves the'd surely see that as the only possible way.

Quote

One of them was obviously Ben, but was the other one Philip's Topeka mark (Deirdre)? If so, there was no more mention of that plotline in this episode.

Yes, the other one was Deirdre.

[jjj]

28 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Marilyn and...I forget the guy's name. They're recruits that do the kind of work that Hans used to do. RIP Hans.

I meant, who were they following and photographing?  I'll have to watch that scene again. 

28 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by jjj

[suomi]

I think Ben is incredibly annoying. Jeez, stop with the humble bragging!

[Kathemy]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Meanwhile, all the talk of Center not trusting Philip anymore?  It has me almost completely convinced that Stan's girlfriend is KGB after all.  They want to know what Philip may have told his best friend, the FBI guy, among other things.  Obviously Stan could be recruitable, after what happened in Nina, he's susceptible to a honey trap.  I think it's more about Philip though.

That would be the final irony - the Center sending the girl after Stan to figure out what Philip has told him, which would end up with her blowing Philip's cover through sheer incompetence.

It might be the best option yet.

[Kathemy]

6 hours ago, Sighed I said:

So what was the purpose of introducing her to Gabe? It does seems strange, given the Center's interest in Paige and the shaky ground both E & P are on about the rightness of what they are doing (even if E has been able to hide it so far).

I've been thinking, might it be a plot on P&E's behalf to get Gabriel to think twice about leaving?

[Sighed I]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it was purely about family. Gabriel basically is their family, Philip was sad about not knowing his own, they're going to miss Gabriel. He's leaving, so it's not like he's going to be mentoring her as a spy. It's showing her themselves by letting her meet this guy.

Fair enough, and you're probably right. I guess I assumed that while they care about Gabriel a great deal, they can't fully trust him.

Don't get me wrong; I like Gabriel a lot and it's very clear he cares for them deeply, like a father would. That's why he bends the rules from time to time and feels so guilty about lying to them. But he still works for the Center. I'm not saying he would, for example, kill them or have them killed. I suspect he wouldn't and might even help them, even if it costs him his life, but there's no way for E/P to know that for sure. I've always figured that plays in the back of their minds, so they hold back a bit when it comes to those things which make them particularly vulnerable, and nothing makes them more vulnerable than their kids.

Quote

The Centre didn't kill either of the Connors kids. Claudia said they were broken up about it and Claudia's pretty honest about these things. Not that they wouldn't kill children in general, but they're not targeting Illegals kids.

They didn't pull the trigger, or even arrange to have them killed, but they created the conditions by recruiting Jared against his parents' explicit wishes. For me that makes them responsible for the resulting carnage. It has been a while since I've seen the episode, so saying they had no problem with what happened was a poor choice of words. I understand on a personal level it was very upsetting. What I meant was that the Center decided recruiting this kid was a good idea and they were going to make it happen because they're right, they know better than his own parents. But they weren't right, and two important agents and their kids died because they had to do it their way.

It reminds me a little of P/E feeling guilty about the people they've killed or whose lives they wrecked. They feel terrible about it, and might make minor adjustments to minimize the damage as best they can, but they can't change the fundamental elements or goals of the missions they're assigned and they continue to do as their told (with good reason, of course), despite whatever misgivings they might have. Whatever damage that results because of that choice will still be on them. The Center may be devastated by the loss of this family, and they've made adjustments with their recruiting of Paige as a result, but nothing's really changed. Despite the strong objections of at least one parent, they moved forward, business as usual.

Quote

The Centre says she does have a choice--and I don't think it's a lie. I mean, Paige knows she doesn't have a choice about lying to protect her parents since that's already her reality, but she doesn't have to become a spy for them. Sure the Centre could decide to threaten her parents to make her etc., but I could just as easily believe that they would be smart enough to know they can't force something this delicate. If they're going by reality, the kids were never as far as we know forced into spying. They're hoping to get willing recruits with these kids. You can't get a second generation illegal through blackmail. It's too important a position for life. Part of their job involves identifying people who can't be turned enough.

Of course, they could write a story where Paige is coerced and Philip is coerced into letting her coerced etc. But it's not a set plan that only Paige doesn't know about. Philip and Elizabeth are operating under the understanding that of course Paige would have to agree. As spies themselves the'd surely see that as the only possible way.

They say she has a choice, but when P/E objected to her being recruited, Claudia told them they were under orders to make it happen, or at least take steps in that direction. With the Connors dead and the loss of one potential recruit, they have even more incentive to get her on board. E/P have told her details about sensitive operations and Gabriel knows it. Would the Center still be okay with Paige saying no and walking away, knowing what she knows? How can they ensure she'll keep her mouth shut, especially after she already confided in Pastor Tim? What if, theoretically, her parents stayed on the job till she turned 18, and Paige comes to the conclusion that she doesn't want to live in Russia and decides to stay in the US. Would they wish her well and let her live her life in peace? Maybe she can say no to joining the KGB, but that doesn't mean the KGB doesn't own her ass either way. I guess that's what I mean by her having no choice.

There's been so much great discussion and analysis in this thread (and others I've perused thus far) and I'm really enjoying reading everyone's take on things. It makes rewatching the episodes even more interesting, keeping an eye out for things others have mentioned, or looking at scenes or characters' actions from different perspectives. Glad I gave this subforum a peek.

[Sighed I]

1 hour ago, Kathemy said:

I've been thinking, might it be a plot on P&E's behalf to get Gabriel to think twice about leaving?

Appealing to his heart. Interesting theory. May be...

[misstwpherecool]

Paige meets Gabriel is supposed to be the shock and awe moment?  So far this season seems nothing but a set up for the final season.

I forgot, was the Mary K encounter before E's trip to the shrinks office? Did E have a snarky look as she was leaving the office?

What was the job title of the Russian women Stan and Aderholt approached?

Does Oleg realize Stan might have helped him out?

Gabriel going back to help Misha out out of guilt?I

It seems like they have more rookies or help to work with-will one of these sell them out.

[Umbelina]

Yeah, the idea of "choice" is only there if you consider bad choices to be "choice."  Technically?  Yes.  Realistically?  No.

19 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

Fair enough, and you're probably right. I guess I assumed that while they care about Gabriel a great deal, they can't fully trust him.

Don't get me wrong; I like Gabriel a lot and it's very clear he cares for them deeply, like a father would. That's why he bends the rules from time to time and feels so guilty about lying to them. But he still works for the Center. I'm not saying he would, for example, kill them or have them killed. I suspect he wouldn't and might even help them, even if it costs him his life, but there's no way for E/P to know that for sure. I've always figured that plays in the back of their minds, so they hold back a bit when it comes to those things which make them particularly vulnerable, and nothing makes them more vulnerable than their kids.

They didn't pull the trigger, or even arrange to have them killed, but they created the conditions by recruiting Jared against his parents' explicit wishes. For me that makes them responsible for the resulting carnage. It has been a while since I've seen the episode, so saying they had no problem with what happened was a poor choice of words. I understand on a personal level it was very upsetting. What I meant was that the Center decided recruiting this kid was a good idea and they were going to make it happen because they're right, they know better than his own parents. But they weren't right, and two important agents and their kids died because they had to do it their way.

It reminds me a little of P/E feeling guilty about the people they've killed or whose lives they wrecked. They feel terrible about it, and might make minor adjustments to minimize the damage as best they can, but they can't change the fundamental elements or goals of the missions they're assigned and they continue to do as their told (with good reason, of course), despite whatever misgivings they might have. Whatever damage that results because of that choice will still be on them. The Center may be devastated by the loss of this family, and they've made adjustments with their recruiting of Paige as a result, but nothing's really changed. Despite the strong objections of at least one parent, they moved forward, business as usual.

They say she has a choice, but when P/E objected to her being recruited, Claudia told them they were under orders to make it happen, or at least take steps in that direction. With the Connors dead and the loss of one potential recruit, they have even more incentive to get her on board. E/P have told her details about sensitive operations and Gabriel knows it. Would the Center still be okay with Paige saying no and walking away, knowing what she knows? How can they ensure she'll keep her mouth shut, especially after she already confided in Pastor Tim? What if, theoretically, her parents stayed on the job till she turned 18, and Paige comes to the conclusion that she doesn't want to live in Russia and decides to stay in the US. Would they wish her well and let her live her life in peace? Maybe she can say no to joining the KGB, but that doesn't mean the KGB doesn't own her ass either way. I guess that's what I mean by her having no choice.

There's been so much great discussion and analysis in this thread (and others I've perused thus far) and I'm really enjoying reading everyone's take on things. It makes rewatching the episodes even more interesting, keeping an eye out for things others have mentioned, or looking at scenes or characters' actions from different perspectives. Glad I gave this subforum a peek.

To the first bold...

I think that's why Gabe's leaving.  Everything he said leads me to believe Philip is in danger from Center.  He doesn't want to be the one to do it, or to order it done.  He's had friends killed before, in the name of country, he's over it.

To the second...

Exactly.  Paige has a choice between what?  Life and death, sure.  She could always kill herself, or run to the FBI for immunity and let her parents be jailed or killed, become a ward of the state, along with Henry, probably not even put into the same house if they even did find foster parents.  Or perhaps living under protection with FBI guards in a safehouse somewhere far from the main group of KGB operatives.

She has NO choice, and hasn't from the moment Center decided they wanted her, and Elizabeth went whole hog to make that happen.  Yes, she had questions, especially after Elizabeth taking her on a little tour of Gregory's neighborhood and giving Paige his name.  Still, Philip and Elizabeth MADE that choice for her, by not defecting the moment the KGB came after their kid, and most certainly by telling her the truth.

They could have told her they were in witness protection.  They could have told her they worked for the NSA or some other US secret service operation and that not even the FBI agent across the street knew that.  They could have stonewalled.

Philip would have protected Paige, but he sacrificed her for Elizabeth, just like he continually sacrifices his soul, feeling like shit all the time.  Pussy whipped doesn't even cover the full extent of Philip's failings as a father and a man.

The moment Elizabeth was all gung ho about her daughter joining her in the glorious cause?  All good choices for Paige went traipsing out the door.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Umbelina

[Sighed I]

13 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, the idea of "choice" is

To the first bold...

I think that's why he's leaving.  Everything he said leads me to believe Philip is in danger from Center.  He doesn't want to be the one to do it, or to order it done.

To the second...

Exactly.  Paige has a choice between what?  Life and death, sure.  She could always kill herself, or run to the FBI for immunity and let her parents be jailed or killed, become a ward of the state, along with Henry, probably not even put into the same house if they even did find foster parents.  Or perhaps living under protection with FBI guards in a safehouse somewhere far from the main group of KGB operatives.

She has NO choice, and hasn't from the moment Center decided they wanted her, and Elizabeth went whole hog to make that happen.  Yes, she had questions, especially after Elizabeth taking her on a little tour of Gregory's neighborhood and giving Paige his name.  Still, Philip and Elizabeth MADE that choice for her, by not defecting the moment the KGB came after their kid, and most certainly by telling her the truth.

They could have told her they were in witness protection.  They could have told her they worked for the NSA or some other US secret service operation and that not even the FBI agent across the street knew that.  They could have stonewalled.

The moment Elizabeth was all gung ho about her daughter joining her in the glorious cause?  All good choices for Paige went traipsing out the door.

Nicely said. I totally agree.

[Umbelina]

I edited for clarity, must have been doing it while you were typing.  Ha.

[Sighed I]

Heh heh. I hate when that happens. One time I was on another board and decided something I'd posted was TMI. I was in the middle of editing it out when someone replied and I was like, well, TMI it is. LOL

/off topic ;)

[Umbelina]

Maybe that will be it.  Paige kills herself, and Claudia sympathizes, then informs them that they must recruit Henry ASAP.  Elizabeth goes along, Philip looks at her, and all the shit he keeps doing for her, and finally snaps.  "Enough!  Defect with me right now or run.  It's over!"

[Ina123]

I've been thinking a lot about the Misha arc. (Too much, probably.) What if Phillip finds out that his son was sent back while trying to find him and Phillip just loses it. He walks over to Stan's and turns himself in. During debriefing (interrogation?) Phillip proposes that if they get his son out of Russia, he will tell all. Yeah...thinkin' too much, but an interesting thought.

[Ellaria]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

She has NO choice, and hasn't from the moment Center decided they wanted her, and Elizabeth went whole hog to make that happen.  Yes, she had questions, especially after Elizabeth taking her on a little tour of Gregory's neighborhood and giving Paige his name.  Still, Philip and Elizabeth MADE that choice for her, by not defecting the moment the KGB came after their kid, and most certainly by telling her the truth.

They could have told her they were in witness protection.  They could have told her they worked for the NSA or some other US secret service operation and that not even the FBI agent across the street knew that.  They could have stonewalled.

Philip would have protected Paige, but he sacrificed her for Elizabeth, just like he continually sacrifices his soul, feeling like shit all the time.  Pussy whipped doesn't even cover the full extent of Philip's failings as a father and a man.

The moment Elizabeth was all gung ho about her daughter joining her in the glorious cause?  All good choices for Paige went traipsing out the door.

Thank you 100x for this comment. Well said.

[stagmania]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

The moment Elizabeth was all gung ho about her daughter joining her in the glorious cause?  All good choices for Paige went traipsing out the door.

They never had any good choices at all once the Centre decided to recruit their children. If they didn't follow orders and recruit Paige into the cause, the entire family would've had to run. Maybe that's what they should've chosen, but either way Paige's choices and chance for a normal life had already traipsed right out the door, and Philip and Elizabeth made what they thought was the best of a menu of bad choices to try to keep their family and lives intact. It's a bit of an oversimplification to pin all of that on Elizabeth being "gung ho" about the cause, especially since she was depicted as having mixed feelings about it. 

[AAEBoiler]

21 hours ago, Pickles said:

I have answered my own question with the help of google. Duh. She was making a copy of the key.

Ok, do tell ... what does heating a key have to do with making a copy?

[SunnyBeBe]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yeah, the idea of "choice" is only there if you consider bad choices to be "choice."  Technically?  Yes.  Realistically?  No.

To the first bold...

I think that's why Gabe's leaving.  Everything he said leads me to believe Philip is in danger from Center.  He doesn't want to be the one to do it, or to order it done.  He's had friends killed before, in the name of country, he's over it.

To the second...

Exactly.  Paige has a choice between what?  Life and death, sure.  She could always kill herself, or run to the FBI for immunity and let her parents be jailed or killed, become a ward of the state, along with Henry, probably not even put into the same house if they even did find foster parents.  Or perhaps living under protection with FBI guards in a safehouse somewhere far from the main group of KGB operatives.

She has NO choice, and hasn't from the moment Center decided they wanted her, and Elizabeth went whole hog to make that happen.  Yes, she had questions, especially after Elizabeth taking her on a little tour of Gregory's neighborhood and giving Paige his name.  Still, Philip and Elizabeth MADE that choice for her, by not defecting the moment the KGB came after their kid, and most certainly by telling her the truth.

They could have told her they were in witness protection.  They could have told her they worked for the NSA or some other US secret service operation and that not even the FBI agent across the street knew that.  They could have stonewalled.

Philip would have protected Paige, but he sacrificed her for Elizabeth, just like he continually sacrifices his soul, feeling like shit all the time.  Pussy whipped doesn't even cover the full extent of Philip's failings as a father and a man.

The moment Elizabeth was all gung ho about her daughter joining her in the glorious cause?  All good choices for Paige went traipsing out the door.

In reference to the bolden above.  It makes sense, but, if the Center goes that way and takes out P,  wouldn't it be more problematic for E? If P were to be murdered or go missing, then, the police investigation would be trouble for E, if she remains in her position.  Even if E accepts that P is suddenly gone, others would question what happened and insist on filing a missing persons report.  And if he's murdered, more investigation.  I suppose that he could be be killed ACCIDENTALLY, but, even that is problematic, because of the fact that he doesn't really exist and it opens E and the kids to possible discovery.  To me, it's safer if they all stay or all go at once. 

If the Center is done with P, then, I would imagine them moving P, E, and the kids out quickly. Sort of like when Martha was out of the country in a matter of hours. Do you recall the big DISGUST that P and E had when they were discussing how the Russian Agriculture guy just told his family they were leaving Russia and they were gone, just like that?  Their sentiments stood out to me and I now wonder if it foreshadows their fate.  The conversation between E and Paige about how E hasn't been there in a long time? It would make sense, though, once there, the show would be at its end, I suppose.  They could never come back to the US.

Edited April 13, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[stagmania]

41 minutes ago, AAEBoiler said:

Ok, do tell ... what does heating a key have to do with making a copy?

My understanding is that you heat the key until it's somewhat malleable, and then stick it in the lock so that it will mold itself in the correct shape.

[SlovakPrincess]

Have Philip and Elizabeth forgotten that Paige completely lost her shit and blabbed to Pastor Tim the last time they introduced her to someone from the old country and their Soviet life (E's mom)?

Not sure meeting an old and probably sickly Gabriel in his sad, creepy, gray apartment is going to help Paige embrace her spy future .... Claudia is actually more terrifying but could at least put on a show of being a grandma-figure, if the goal is to make Paige feel better about this.  

I love Oleg, but I can't with his story this season.    Is it supposed to be depressing and pointless at the same time?   They gotta move this part of the story along faster.  

[Dev F]

32 minutes ago, stagmania said:

My understanding is that you heat the key until it's somewhat malleable, and then stick it in the lock so that it will mold itself in the correct shape.

Yeah, this seemed to be the idea, though I'm still not exactly clear on how it's supposed to work. The whole point of having tumblers in a lock is that they aren't stuck in any fixed position, right? So even if the pressure of the locking mechanism were enough to reshape the heated key, what would ensure that they shape it into the correct configuration, and not any other random configuration that doesn't work?

[Inquisitionist]

1 minute ago, Dev F said:

Yeah, this seemed to be the idea, though I'm still not exactly clear on how it's supposed to work.

Maybe the show doesn't want to be a "how to" guide for breaking and entering?  ;-)

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, jjj said:

I meant, who were they following and photographing?  I'll have to watch that scene again. 

Quote

The people that Alexei's wife may be teaching Russian.

 

8 hours ago, Sighed I said:

I've always figured that plays in the back of their minds, so they hold back a bit when it comes to those things which make them particularly vulnerable, and nothing makes them more vulnerable than their kids.

True, but that's also why it makes sense they'd do it now when he's leaving. It's not like Gabriel doesn't already know about Paige if he wants to get at her. Having her parents introduce her is more dangerous because it's like they're telling her to trust him. But that's why it makes sense for them to do it at this time where it's more about the personal connection and they're counting on him leaving right afterwards. Elizabeth and Philip's family is tied up in their spy work so it's hard to tell where the line is.

8 hours ago, Sighed I said:

They didn't pull the trigger, or even arrange to have them killed, but they created the conditions by recruiting Jared against his parents' explicit wishes. For me that makes them responsible for the resulting carnage.

I agree completely, but I was disagreeing with the idea that they had no problem with it. They're responsible for it absolutely, but that wasn't the plan. It was actually against what they wanted. I'm not trying to make the Centre look better here, just saying what their attitude seems to be. 

8 hours ago, Sighed I said:

They say she has a choice, but when P/E objected to her being recruited, Claudia told them they were under orders to make it happen, or at least take steps in that direction. With the Connors dead and the loss of one potential recruit, they have even more incentive to get her on board. E/P have told her details about sensitive operations and Gabriel knows it. Would the Center still be okay with Paige saying no and walking away, knowing what she knows?

But if they say she has a choice we can't just say it's a given that she has no choice, like this is something we know and she doesn't. The very fact that Paige already spilled the beans to Pastor Tim backs up my point. Paige isn't a kid brought up to fear them, she's an American citizen with all the entitlement that goes with that. Paige can't be controlled by them so easily. They've already given the okay to Paige knowing the secret without being recruited--that's where they are now. Their first step was telling her the truth even while she was a regular American kid. The actual recruitment is supposed to come down the line and if she's "the right kid" it'll work out great for them.

 

But if she has no interest in advancing their agenda, she's not powerless to protect herself and there's good reason to think they'd realize they'd be fools to start trying to coerce her. Being an Illegal requires personal motivation and loyalty. There's every reason to think they'd know it's in their best interest to back off if the kid just isn't interested. They're already risking their whole operation on her whims--whims that already got them an unwanted Pastor and his smarter wife who's got a tape with a lawyer (she says) set to go off if they make the wrong move--and they're watching Paige closely too. Paige also has an FBI agent who gets concerned when things aren't all right in Paige-land.

The KGB does not own Paige's ass as of this moment. Doesn't matter if all her choices are bad for her. What matters is that some of them are majorly bad for the KGB. 

I mean, even now the Centre is allowing the Tims to live because Philip and Elizabeth have warned them that if they kill the Tims, it's far less likely that Paige will be interested in working for them. The actions of everyone on the KGB side follow the idea that Paige needs to choose. (This is also true of their actions with Jared.) I don't think we can just dismiss that because the KGB is ruthless or bad. They are ruthless, but they are far from all-powerful. It's kind of like when Martha was being extracted. Many thought that the KGB had too many reasons to kill Martha to leave her alive, but the actions of all the KGB characters indicated they were extracting her.

Paige may only have bad choices once her parents told her the truth, but she still has choices. They have to woo her and hope she doesn't blow their operation.

34 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Have Philip and Elizabeth forgotten that Paige completely lost her shit and blabbed to Pastor Tim the last time they introduced her to someone from the old country and their Soviet life (E's mom)?

 

I don't think this part's a problem. With her grandmother Paige was getting a lot more dumped on her--trip out of the country, first time seeing Elizabeth in spy mode, a foreign woman with whom Elizabeth has this intense relationship. It was really the first time a lot of it sunk in how much she'd be lying. Gabriel's more like learning about Gregory. He's just an old man who speaks English and knows her parents.

4 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Yeah, this seemed to be the idea, though I'm still not exactly clear on how it's supposed to work. The whole point of having tumblers in a lock is that they aren't stuck in any fixed position, right? So even if the pressure of the locking mechanism were enough to reshape the heated key, what would ensure that they shape it into the correct configuration, and not any other random configuration that doesn't work?

I read elsewhere it's more about the soot on the key. It rubs off where it hits the tumblers and that gives them a way to copy it.

[SlackerInc]

I love that Mischa got all the way to the U.S. and then ended up all the way back in the USSR without Philip ever knowing.  I don't think any of us predicted that!  But I was kind of hoping for it.  Now if Renee just turns out to be a regular American woman... [crossing fingers]

I was confused by Elizabeth thinking back to her friendship with Young-Hee, but then doing surveillance on some other seemingly white family.  Or did my penny-pinching by purchasing the SD season pass from iTunes instead of springing for the HD version undermine me?  I rewound a few times and they did not look Korean to me.

Overall I thought this was a somewhat below average episode, until the end which was well done and makes me look forward to the next.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I love that Mischa got all the way to the U.S. and then ended up all the way back in the USSR without Philip ever knowing.  I don't think any of us predicted that!  But I was kind of hoping for it.  Now if Renee just turns out to be a regular American woman... [crossing fingers]

 

Co-sign!

3 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I was confused by Elizabeth thinking back to her friendship with Young-Hee, but then doing surveillance on some other seemingly white family.  Or did my penny-pinching by purchasing the SD season pass from iTunes instead of springing for the HD version undermine me?  I rewound a few times and they did not look Korean to me.

 

Elizabeth drove to Young-Hee's house to see how they were doing and discovered a different family was living in their house. So she can now just worry about what happened to them.

[SlackerInc]

Ohhhh...okay, gotcha.

[SlovakPrincess]

For story purposes, I hope Paige's meeting with Gabriel backfires, and is as sad and weird for Paige as I think it would realistically be.  And that, in reaction, she desperately wants to do normal American teen things again, like make out with Matthew in Stan's house, drinking, and go to the mall ... and avoid her parents.

The dramatic potential for Paige's story is that she's losing the life she once assumed: being a safe and carefree American with a bright future. But since she threw herself into the church, we haven't seen much of Paige's life at school or with young people or doing kid things.  

Would be interesting to see her rebel in a small way against both her parents and the pastor, perhaps resenting them all for holding her past blabbing over her head.   She must be tired of everything being so serious all the time.  

Also, neither Jennings kid would be a good spy for the Centre.  Paige is book smart and earnest and willing to be bossed around to an extent, but she lacks street smarts and ruthlessness.  Henry is intelligent AND has street smart instincts (remember he smashed a beer over the head of the creepy guy Paige took a ride with in Season 1) ... but he is independent and would resist being told he has no choice.  Paige is trying hard to believe there's some social good in what her parents do, whereas Henry would be way more skeptical and is fine with being a comfortable American.  

[stagmania]

42 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Yeah, this seemed to be the idea, though I'm still not exactly clear on how it's supposed to work. The whole point of having tumblers in a lock is that they aren't stuck in any fixed position, right? So even if the pressure of the locking mechanism were enough to reshape the heated key, what would ensure that they shape it into the correct configuration, and not any other random configuration that doesn't work?

We have now far exceeded my knowledge on this topic. :)

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I love Oleg, but I can't with his story this season.    Is it supposed to be depressing and pointless at the same time?

That pretty much describes life in the Soviet Union though, doesn't it?

[SlovakPrincess]

20 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

That pretty much describes life in the Soviet Union though, doesn't it?

He could at least hook up with one of those ladies his dad invited to dinner!  I'm gonna need some Oleg sex scenes if these stories are going to drag like this, ok?  ;)

I kind of enjoy Kansas guy precisely because of the humble-bragging.  "Try this fatta!   The wine is from Egypt!  I'm solving world hunger!"   He's like a non-stupid version of  Hansel from Zoolander, and he even has the same hair.  The funniest part is that I think Elizabeth is starting to dig him a little ...

Edited April 13, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[misstwpherecool]

In the first season did it come out that the Dept of Defense or someone was running a parallel counter operation against the KGB. Could Stan's new flame be from a US agency. Just as Philip might be under scrutiny so might Stan and that division-neighbors with the same they don't trust me issues.

Something's brewing with Henry. He seems to be resenting his status & treatment in the family. Will Henry be the wild card that bring everyone down? Still think he altered grades, cheated or something.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

My understanding is that you heat the key until it's somewhat malleable, and then stick it in the lock so that it will mold itself in the correct shape.

Yeah, this seemed to be the idea, though I'm still not exactly clear on how it's supposed to work. The whole point of having tumblers in a lock is that they aren't stuck in any fixed position, right? So even if the pressure of the locking mechanism were enough to reshape the heated key, what would ensure that they shape it into the correct configuration, and not any other random configuration that doesn't work?

We now have confirmation on this from the prop master. Elizabeth was indeed "sooting" the key. She's marking the key by putting on soot and then using it. She can then use it to make a duplicate.

[jrlr]

In total fantasy land, I'd love to see:

Mischa, Oleg and Martha somehow find one another in Russia - I have no idea where that could go, but it could certainly put some fire under three currently very depressing and draggy subplots. 

Paige suddenly turns into a junior Elizabeth complete with E's repertoire of disguises, traps, tricks and ability to change facial expressions.

Henry proves to be such a math genius (BTW, I find it completely ridiculous that a kid could get to high school in that privileged setting without having had his exceptional abilities noticed MUCH earlier) that he is offered an early full-ride scholarship to college paid for by some right-wing think tank that wants to guide his future.  Let's give P&E something else to worry about.

[becauseIsaidso]

I don't know why, but since last season I've had a sneaking suspicion that there's more to Henry than anyone close to him has figured out. Now that they've revealed that he's quite a bit more intelligent than anyone has given him credit for, I'm going to be paying close attention to all his scenes.

P/E have clearly favored Paige, Henry's said as much; he's got more on the ball than they realized, he's used to moving around in the background, and he has a very friendly relationship with the neighborhood FBI agent - what more could the Motherland ask?.....the old saying that 'It's always the quiet ones' comes to mind. I doubt that the Center gets all their information about the kids from only what Gabriel relays from P/E, and I would not be at all surprised to find they've got more recruitment shenanigans in the works.

[jww]

I really don’t  think a white middle class female of average looks and intelligence, little athletic ability, no demonstrated leadership ability, few friends and less than nobody parents would be a likely candidate for a sensitive position in the CIA,FBI or State Department.  I think the CIA/State was/is  an old boys network-if you were not in Skull and Bones, forget it.  If they were really serious they  would pack Henry off to a New  England  prep school and let him rub elbows with other boys who may well be in sensitive positions as adults and whose fathers already are.   Paige may even have queered her chances  of  passing a security check  by associating  with an ultra liberal minister who has been arrested in peace demonstrations and whom the FBI may have on file, (in the 60's you and your family would  be placed on a FBI watch list if you requested a shortwave radio reception verification QSL card from a communist country) not to mention any background check will involve her entire history going back to grade school and her parents.

 I was pretty radical when I was in high school in the 60’s what with the Vietnam War, civil rights and Caesar Chavez ( I grew up in Fresno center of the Farmworkers strike)

I had  a Zenith Trans-Oceanic shortwave radio (same radio P+E used  in season 1 to receive code) and would listen to Radio Havana,/Hanoi (luckily didn't request a QSL), read the Black Panther  newspaper  and had at least 10 Pete Seeger albums.  But even then the USSR had no appeal to me or my friends- cold, dreary place run by old men who made LBJ/Nixon look exciting,  a place completely lacking in style, censored music, literature, movies and sexual repressive  and of course  the Berlin Wall was there for a reason.  On the other hand Castro  and the Red Guard were exciting.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Sighed I said:

I like Gabriel a lot and it's very clear he cares for them deeply, like a father would. That's why he bends the rules from time to time and feels so guilty about lying to them.

Another reason Gabriel bends the rules for Philip and Elizabeth from time to time is that he understands it's useful in the long run: Give them some slack now and they'll be more willing to continue in the future. They may be highly competent agents, but they're still human beings. They have breaking points like anyone else, and I think Gabriel is more sensitive to that than, say, Claudia. The personal connection Gabriel has with Philip and Elizabeth is a big part of how he treats them, but I also think he's more sympathetic in general to the toll the work takes on agents.

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, becauseIsaidso said:

I don't know why, but since last season I've had a sneaking suspicion that there's more to Henry than anyone close to him has figured out. Now that they've revealed that he's quite a bit more intelligent than anyone has given him credit for, I'm going to be paying close attention to all his scenes.

 

I actually don't see a sudden revelation of Henry being far more intelligent than anyone thought. He's always been intelligent. (I've always paid attention to all his scenes--this is totally consistent!) He's just also someone who doesn't see a reason to put energy into something that doesn't interest him. Back in S2 he was even talking to his parents about how he found testing to be counter-intuitive because he just crammed for the test and then forgot it instead of learning it. He did all his best studying outside of school.

That's why him suddenly working hard proved that he's got a real aptitude for math. But there's no indication that he's supposed to be some prodigy or genius. He's just hit the point in his education where math has become something that's fun for him, so he's working at it, and the interest and motivation made him excel. That's not something anybody would have noticed earlier, because it's not that unusual or extreme. I think he's always shown lots of signs that he had more potential for creative thinking than Paige, but he wasn't a genius. (Not that Paige wasn't intelligent when she turned her obsessive focus on her parents, something that didn't interest Henry.) Paige is motivated to be a "good girl" whether by doing the laundry unasked, completing all her homework, fighting to end Apartheid or getting an A. Henry's motivated by intellectual interests whether it's astronomy, magic, the comedy of Eddie Murphy or algebra. 

This also relates to a point someone made elsewhere that I disagreed with. They were seeing Stan in a recruitment position with Henry in this ep and imagining seeing the recruitment of him from the other side. I think on the contrary that Stan and the math teacher are representing the American side in the exact opposite way. Henry's success in math is all about Henry. What he does with it is up to him, the math teacher just wants to give him the tools to go as far as he can go. Stan's encouraging that his little buddy did good at something, but he's just a guy who likes Henry and so is happy about that.

It's the opposite of Philip and Elizabeth's situation where them showing talent made them targets for recruitment. They were nobodies who were valuable for what they could do for the Centre. Henry one of a billion snowflakes that are all unique and special.

13 minutes ago, jww said:

 

I really don’t  think a white middle class female of average looks and intelligence, little athletic ability, no demonstrated leadership ability, few friends and less than nobody parents would be a likely candidate for a sensitive position in the CIA,FBI or State Department.  I think the CIA/State was/is  an old boys network-if you were not in Skull and Bones, forget it.

 

I don't think they need her to have that top a position. They'd be satisfied with another Martha.

ETA: Looks like the statue Oleg is sitting by is Ivan Krylov.

Edited April 13, 2017 by sistermagpie

[SlovakPrincess]

The Jennings should really worry if the Centre turns its attention to Henry for his math and computer skills and pushes recruitment.   I think on some level, even Paige doesn't really realize or believe she's trapped in the spy life - she's young, naive and her school education has taught her that anything is possible in America if you just try hard enough.  

Henry will be the same, and he is less curious about his parents' lives and less deferential to them.  Instead of crying to a pastor, he may think there's a creative solution to be found for the whole family if he turns to his pal Stan.   

ETA:. I agree that the Centre's plan for Paige is probably for her to be a Martha -- without the need for elaborate lying and seduction, of course.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[SunnyBeBe]

18 minutes ago, becauseIsaidso said:

I don't know why, but since last season I've had a sneaking suspicion that there's more to Henry than anyone close to him has figured out. Now that they've revealed that he's quite a bit more intelligent than anyone has given him credit for, I'm going to be paying close attention to all his scenes.

P/E have clearly favored Paige, Henry's said as much; he's got more on the ball than they realized, he's used to moving around in the background, and he has a very friendly relationship with the neighborhood FBI agent - what more could the Motherland ask?.....the old saying that 'It's always the quiet ones' comes to mind. I doubt that the Center gets all their information about the kids from only what Gabriel relays from P/E, and I would not be at all surprised to find they've got more recruitment shenanigans in the works.

You might be right, but, I would question how bright anyone is who finds Stan amusing.  I mean, really....unless the person has an ulterior motive, I don't get it.  Maybe, Henry considers Stan on his level.  I can't imagine The Center would recruit Henry without Gabriel, P or E knowing about it.  That would be a shocker. 

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

This also relates to a point someone made elsewhere that I disagreed with. They were seeing Stan in a recruitment position with Henry in this ep and imagining seeing the recruitment of him from the other side. I think on the contrary that Stan and the math teacher are representing the American side in the exact opposite way. Henry's success in math is all about Henry. What he does with it is up to him, the math teacher just wants to give him the tools to go as far as he can go. Stan's encouraging that his little buddy did good at something, but he's just a guy who likes Henry and so is happy about that.

I like this statement.

In a minority opinion, I don't think that Henry is being recruited by anyone for anything. IMO, the purpose of devoting screen time to Henry's skills in Math was less about him and more about P&E and their "lack of involvement" with him. P&E are both questioning, doubting and expressing concern (obviously in different ways). The show is moving towards its final act and P&E will be making some very difficult decisions soon.

Off-topic: have we ever seen/been told what Gabriel and Claudia's "covers" are in the US?

Edited April 13, 2017 by Ellaria Sand
Proofreading is important.

[shura]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I read elsewhere it's more about the soot on the key. It rubs off where it hits the tumblers and that gives them a way to copy it.

That's what I thought, too. In my mind, though, the soot would rub off more where the key blank hit the non-moving parts of the lock. Then you cut those parts out and you are left with something that will not hit those obstructions and will turn freely. (I'm learning so much about locks today.) One question - did Elizabeth do this key trick on the unlocked door to the shrink's waiting room? That's what it looked like to me. I wonder what the other patients there thought about someone entering like that. On the other hand, it was a shrink's office...

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

ETA:. I agree that the Centre's plan for Paige is probably for her to be a Martha -- without the need for elaborate lying and seduction, of course.  

Same here. "Recruitment" doesn't automatically mean being a field agent. I think the main thing is that Paige joins the KGB, not her particular spot within it.

16 minutes ago, shura said:

One question - did Elizabeth do this key trick on the unlocked door to the shrink's waiting room?

Yes. 

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

IMO, the purpose of devoting screen time to Henry's skills in Math was less about him and more important P&E and their "lack of involvement" with him. P&E are both questioning, doubting and expressing concern (obviously in different ways). The show is moving towards its final act and P&E will be making some very difficult decisions soon.

Yes, and also it's a thing that's given Henry his first opportunity to bring up how he feels about their favoritism of Paige. I think it can be less about the specific talent and just a handy device to bring Henry's resentments and his parents' misunderstanding of him to the forefront. It could have been anything. 

 

18 minutes ago, shura said:

One question - did Elizabeth do this key trick on the unlocked door to the shrink's waiting room? That's what it looked like to me. I wonder what the other patients there thought about someone entering like that. On the other hand, it was a shrink's office...

Can't remember now when she did it but I do remember her sticking a key in the lock. Maybe she didn't actually walk in then? I can't remember.

[SunnyBeBe]

16 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I like this statement.

In a minority opinion, I don't think that Henry is being recruited by anyone for anything. IMO, the purpose of devoting screen time to Henry's skills in Math was less about him and more important P&E and their "lack of involvement" with him. P&E are both questioning, doubting and expressing concern (obviously in different ways). The show is moving towards its final act and P&E will be making some very difficult decisions soon.

Off-topic: have we ever seen/been told what Gabriel and Claudia's "covers" are in the US?

This is an interesting possibility.  If P & E make some decisions, they may have to consider Henry's welfare and if Stan may make a good foster parent. They have to know that things are never certain with their assignment.  Even though Gabriel says he's retiring on his own accord, they still think there's more to it.  Though, Gabriel seemed to provide Claudia with the same story........for long term, Henry adapting in Russia?......I don't think so.  Recall how E said when Paige asked if everyone was equal in Russia?  E talked about the big thing was that everyone was in it together or something like that.  Well, I'm not sure that's what Oleg has found. lol  

[Sarah 103]

On April 12, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Tetraneutron said:

I also think it's clear, and interesting, what they're doing with Henry. He's the All-American boy. Good with technology. Smart but not especially serious. Cocky, snarky, likes luxury and pop culture and doesn't follow orders. He'd be an amazing asset too, but in a completely different way. He'd also be the most likely to rebel.

Henry would be a far better spy and would be a less sexy version of Oleg.

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh my God, I was so convinced that Oleg was going to jump for a second there. I was already reaching for my phone to start sending out some very strongly worded tweets! I hope this means that he's really safe from the CIA, but I'm still not sure. I like seeing him at work, but I feel like there will be some other way he will get tied into the story, or will meet more obstacles. And, I know I say this ever week, but good LORD can that man rock a black coat.

Me too! As long as they can keep alive and looking good, I'm okay with whatever plotline they have for him. Oleg looks great week after week. I like to imagine that while was still in the U.S, he watched reruns of The Man From U.N.C.L.E. He claimed it was for research, but really he just liked Ilya. 

7 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I've been thinking a lot about the Misha arc. (Too much, probably.) What if Phillip finds out that his son was sent back while trying to find him and Phillip just loses it. He walks over to Stan's and turns himself in. During debriefing (interrogation?) Phillip proposes that if they get his son out of Russia, he will tell all. Yeah...thinkin' too much, but an interesting thought.

I can see Philip going to Stan to turn himself in as part of a deal that's the series endgame. 

2 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Also, neither Jennings kid would be a good spy for the Centre.  Paige is book smart and earnest and willing to be bossed around to an extent, but she lacks street smarts and ruthlessness.  Henry is intelligent AND has street smart instincts (remember he smashed a beer over the head of the creepy guy Paige took a ride with in Season 1) ... but he is independent and would resist being told he has no choice.  Paige is trying hard to believe there's some social good in what her parents do, whereas Henry would be way more skeptical and is fine with being a comfortable American.  

Paige would be useless as a field agent, but put in her an office and she'd be great. Henry would go crazy spending all day in an office, but he'd be great as a field agent. 

2 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

He could at least hook up with one of those ladies his dad invited to dinner!  I'm gonna need some Oleg sex scenes if these stories are going to drag like this, ok?  ;)

Oleg sex scenes would be fantastic, but I'd settle for any hint of happiness. Maybe he could go to a jazz club and have a night of fun. 

1 hour ago, becauseIsaidso said:

P/E have clearly favored Paige, Henry's said as much; he's got more on the ball than they realized, he's used to moving around in the background, and he has a very friendly relationship with the neighborhood FBI agent - what more could the Motherland ask?.....the old saying that 'It's always the quiet ones' comes to mind. I doubt that the Center gets all their information about the kids from only what Gabriel relays from P/E, and I would not be at all surprised to find they've got more recruitment shenanigans in the works.

I love this idea. Why Philip and Elizabeth are worried and focused on Paige, The Centre's quietly working on plans for Henry in the future. They've noticed him, but they are waiting to make thier move. 

1 hour ago, jww said:

I really don’t  think a white middle class female of average looks and intelligence, little athletic ability, no demonstrated leadership ability, few friends and less than nobody parents would be a likely candidate for a sensitive position in the CIA,FBI or State Department.  I think the CIA/State was/is  an old boys network-if you were not in Skull and Bones, forget it.  If they were really serious they  would pack Henry off to a New  England  prep school and let him rub elbows with other boys who may well be in sensitive positions as adults and whose fathers already are.

It's not the sixties. It's the eighties. Affirmative Action was starting to become a reality. I think the old boy network was still there, but not nearly as strong and prevasive as it was in earlier decades.  

@sistermagpie and @SlovakPrincess. I agree with you. The plan is for the second generation to get in and get access, which could take multiple forms. It could be someone in technological research/cyrpotgraphy, field operations, or admin staff in an office. 

[Sighed I]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

In reference to the bolden above.  It makes sense, but, if the Center goes that way and takes out P,  wouldn't it be more problematic for E? If P were to be murdered or go missing, then, the police investigation would be trouble for E, if she remains in her position.  Even if E accepts that P is suddenly gone, others would question what happened and insist on filing a missing persons report.  And if he's murdered, more investigation.  I suppose that he could be be killed ACCIDENTALLY, but, even that is problematic, because of the fact that he doesn't really exist and it opens E and the kids to possible discovery.  To me, it's safer if they all stay or all go at once. 

If the Center is done with P, then, I would imagine them moving P, E, and the kids out quickly. Sort of like when Martha was out of the country in a matter of hours. Do you recall the big DISGUST that P and E had when they were discussing how the Russian Agriculture guy just told his family they were leaving Russia and they were gone, just like that?  Their sentiments stood out to me and I now wonder if it foreshadows their fate.  The conversation between E and Paige about how E hasn't been there in a long time? It would make sense, though, once there, the show would be at its end, I suppose.  They could never come back to the US.

I think if the Center decides to off Philip, they would indeed declare, "Mission over. Elizabeth, get your kids. You're going home." Now, given they have to know E/P have a real, loving relationship, I think they'd set it up to make Philip's death look like an accident (not that Elizabeth would buy it). Plus if he dies accidentally, it could mitigate the need for an investigation by the authorities, as long as they're careful to choose the "right" kind of death.

I imagine they're watching Elizabeth (almost?) as closely as they are Philip, looking for signs that his discontent hasn't rubbed off on her. If they determine Philip is a lost cause and she's been contaminated, they both go bye-bye. Not sure what they'd do with the kids, but I'd think their first choice in that situation would be to repatriate the kids and "reeducate" them (not saying that would work either--one miscalculation the Center may have made in all this is how American these kids are).

But I think the most likely scenario would be to pull E/P out and send the whole family home and give Philip a chance to get his head on straight in the safety of the Motherland, where he'd be easier to contain (or so they think... He is a super mega spy after all ;). I don't think they want to kill either one of them--they are heroes after all-- and they'll only go that route if E/P force their hand by defecting or going on the run.

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I agree completely, but I was disagreeing with the idea that they had no problem with it. They're responsible for it absolutely, but that wasn't the plan. It was actually against what they wanted. I'm not trying to make the Centre look better here, just saying what their attitude seems to be.

Oh yes, I agree I was wrong on that point; I should have conceded that more clearly in my previous response. I was on a roll in my condemnation of the E-Ville KGB and in my zeal misremembered some of the details of that particular story line. ;) I'd like to address some of your other points, but unfortunately I have to go to work now. I'll finish my thoughts later.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Прощай

Farewell. (If actual Russian speaker corrects me--listen to them!)

 

6 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

I don't think they want to kill either one of them--they are heroes after all-- and they'll only go that route if E/P force their hand by defecting or going on the run.

Also, they're both damn productive. These are people who wanted to keep running Martha even when Philip was sure she was burned. They have a very hard time taking anybody out. They run them into the ground. They're not going to just decide to kill Philip, who's aced pretty much every assignment he's ever been given, because they think he's not loyal enough, especially since he's been this way for so long. Elizabeth started reporting that he was weak years ago and they let it play out.

Edited April 13, 2017 by sistermagpie

[SlovakPrincess]

38 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

 

Paige would be useless as a field agent, but put in her an office and she'd be great. Henry would go crazy spending all day in an office, but he'd be great as a field agent. 

@sistermagpie and @SlovakPrincess. I agree with you. The plan is for the second generation to get in and get access, which could take multiple forms. It could be someone in technological research/cyrpotgraphy, field operations, or admin staff in an office. 

Yeah, Paige and Henry likely will not have to do the dirtier jobs P and E have had to do -- sleeping with strangers, frequent violence, etc.   But they'd still struggle with the constant lying, the constant threat of being caught and imprisonment, and the guilt because of a lifelong loyalty to the U.S.   And chafe against authority from the Centre.