S03.E12: The Musical

[OnceSane]

Quote

Grace wants Frankie to go to the hospital after a medical incident, but Frankie insists on alternative healing. The protests disrupt Robert's play.

[Clanstarling]

This one was pretty emotional. The TIA was scary. I'd heard of them, but didn't know the difference between them and a full on stroke, so that was good information to have.

[EarlGreyTea]

This is a bit too heavy for me. It was played tremendously by both actresses, but I watch the show for escapism and pretty houses. I dunno. I certainly don't fault them for such a heavy, realistic storyline, but it brought the season down for me a bit.

Robert in that wig had me howling, as did the gang frantically running between house and hospital.

So I'm glad Bud has finally gotten a decent storyline. Betting the pregnancy will give Frankie yet another reason to want to stay. Would love to see Frankie as a grandma.

Edited March 26, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[zxy556575]

2 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

Robert in that wig had me howling, as did the gang frantically running between house and hospital.

I like that the ex husbands are still part of Grace & Frankie's lives, even if peripherally. Like, there's no question that Sol will go to the hospital when Frankie falls ill, or that the guys will come to the aid of the women when they're laid out on the floor. There are 40 years of marital history there and I appreciate that the four of them have worked their way to civil, and even friendly, relationships.

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama. As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Lord Donia

[EarlGreyTea]

Just now, Lord Donia said:

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama. As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

I actually think the musical was a case study in how to show a musical onscreen without letting it suck up the entire episode (looking at YOU, Gilmore Girls: Year in the Life, which spent nearly 20 minutes nonstop on a stupid musical that had no bearing whatsoever on the plot). You got some funny sight gags, backstage shenanigans, and a chance for Martin Sheen to show he can't sing all that well. And those shoes were hilarious, along with the understudy.

But yeah, there is not an ounce of chemistry to be had between Sheen and Waterson. I can see it more on Waterson's part, but he has great chemistry with everyone on the show. What I CAN buy is them as a comfortable old married couple. Makes sense that there isn't a lot of spark between them.

[Bastet]

TIA was my diagnosis for Frankie, so it's good to see my career as an armchair doctor is going well.

I was glad Jacob got the hell out so the women could talk, and I sympathized with Frankie saying she wished she didn't know, for how this was going to affect her life going forward, but I am completely with Grace in saying she did the right thing and deal with it already.

Did they ship Brianna off to wherever Barry is because the actor playing her is pregnant?

“Embrace love, light, and the possibility of a better tomorrow.”
“Pass.”

Edited March 26, 2017 by Bastet

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Lord Donia said:

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama. As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

As 1776 is one of my favorite plays, I loved each of the interludes. Didn't care for the protesters, though.

11 hours ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I actually think the musical was a case study in how to show a musical onscreen without letting it suck up the entire episode (looking at YOU, Gilmore Girls: Year in the Life, which spent nearly 20 minutes nonstop on a stupid musical that had no bearing whatsoever on the plot). You got some funny sight gags, backstage shenanigans, and a chance for Martin Sheen to show he can't sing all that well. And those shoes were hilarious, along with the understudy.

But yeah, there is not an ounce of chemistry to be had between Sheen and Waterson. I can see it more on Waterson's part, but he has great chemistry with everyone on the show. What I CAN buy is them as a comfortable old married couple. Makes sense that there isn't a lot of spark between them.

God yes, GG's foray into community theater was horrible.

As so many things, mileage varies - I totally buy (at least this season) Robert's love and attraction to Sol. Sol's growing on me too - I have to get past my distaste for large baby men to appreciate his character. Seems to me, with a 40 year relationship (or is it 20?), they really are, in effect, an old married couple.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I enjoyed Robert's meltdown about the musical and ending it with "Hold me!"  

I liked that the protest was so absurd-keeping gays out of musicals! But the whole coffee spilling thing on the kid ratcheting up the protest was a little dumb.  I think the protest was mainly a way for Sol to become involved with the gay community the way Robert joining the musical was.

Edited March 27, 2017 by DoubleUTeeEff

[Negritude]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 8:07 PM, Lord Donia said:

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama. As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

Sam Waterston, who I've enjoyed in other roles (he was in The Killing Fields for Christ's sake), is almost painful to watch in this for me.  Martin Sheen doesn't fare much better and it's laughable to watch the lengths the show goes to not show them being affectionate in an authentic way. I know both actors are legends but being that Fonda and Tomlin are the real draw here, they would've been better off casting actual gay actors who would be more effective.

Protesting "gay" theater...I mean come on. In La Jolla no less, not exactly the bible belt. I get that it was supposed to highlight the silliness of it all and those signs were hilarious.

All that aside, I really enjoyed this season much more than the previous two.  The writing had an almost "Golden Girls" quality.

[Drapers4thWife]

Sam Waterston, who I've enjoyed in other roles (he was in The Killing Fields for Christ's sake), is almost painful to watch in this for me.

I agree, particularly because his head bobbing and vocal inflections are so weird. It's almost like Waterston had a stroke (though to my knowledge he has not). I don't know why he just doesn't play it normally, like his other roles. My guess is that Waterston is trying to play up Sol's "hippy dippy" side more, but Tomlin as Frankie is way more flighty than Sol and she doesn't rely on those exaggerations. 

Here's a clip of Waterston on The Newsroom semi-recently. I buy this character much more as someone who Robert would fall in love with - he doesn't have to be this extreme but it would be better IMO if Sol was a tougher, more no-nonsense character. He could be that AND still fall in love with Frankie, share her values and be a father to Bud and Coyote. After all, Sol is not a flighty artist or musician like Frankie or Coyote, we're told he was a workaholic lawyer who built up a successful firm alongside cutthroat Robert, who's obviously no slouch either. There's got to be another side to him than this doddering old hippie. I think Sol should be written more like Bud, who is compassionate yet straightlaced and chose to be a lawyer. It would show more where Bud came from and IMO it might be a nice parallel if Bud and Coyote's relationship echoed Sol and Frankie (the grounding, common sense force vs. the high-strung hippie). 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Negritude said:

Sam Waterston, who I've enjoyed in other roles (he was in The Killing Fields for Christ's sake), is almost painful to watch in this for me.  Martin Sheen doesn't fare much better and it's laughable to watch the lengths the show goes to not show them being affectionate in an authentic way. I know both actors are legends but being that Fonda and Tomlin are the real draw here, they would've been better off casting actual gay actors who would be more effective.

Protesting "gay" theater...I mean come on. In La Jolla no less, not exactly the bible belt. I get that it was supposed to highlight the silliness of it all and those signs were hilarious.

All that aside, I really enjoyed this season much more than the previous two.  The writing had an almost "Golden Girls" quality.

YES!  Everything! 

[Wings]

49 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

 

I agree, particularly because his head bobbing and vocal inflections are so weird. It's almost like Waterston had a stroke (though to my knowledge he has not). I don't know why he just doesn't play it normally, like his other roles. My guess is that Waterston is trying to play up Sol's "hippy dippy" side more, but Tomlin as Frankie is way more flighty than Sol and she doesn't rely on those exaggerations. 

Here's a clip of Waterston on The Newsroom semi-recently. I buy this character much more as someone who Robert would fall in love with - he doesn't have to be this extreme but it would be better IMO if Sol was a tougher, more no-nonsense character. He could be that AND still fall in love with Frankie, share her values and be a father to Bud and Coyote. After all, Sol is not a flighty artist or musician like Frankie or Coyote, we're told he was a workaholic lawyer who built up a successful firm alongside cutthroat Robert, who's obviously no slouch either. There's got to be another side to him than this doddering old hippie. I think Sol should be written more like Bud, who is compassionate yet straightlaced and chose to be a lawyer. It would show more where Bud came from and IMO it might be a nice parallel if Bud and Coyote's relationship echoed Sol and Frankie (the grounding, common sense force vs. the high-strung hippie). 

And YES to this, too!!!

[OtterMommy]

What I don't get is why Sol had to leave his husband's play--twice!--for his ex-wife.  I thought Robert had every right to be mad at him over that--until I realized he wasn't mad at him about that.   

Also, did Brianna walk to Baltimore or something?

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

What I don't get is why Sol had to leave his husband's play--twice!--for his ex-wife.  I thought Robert had every right to be mad at him over that--until I realized he wasn't mad at him about that.   

If I had an ex-spouse of 40 years, who was the other parent to my children, whom I still loved as family (just not as a spouse), and my current spouse got mad at me for, along with our kids, leaving a play because we got word she was being taken by ambulance to the hospital, I'd have a big problem with that.

[OtterMommy]

24 minutes ago, Bastet said:

If I had an ex-spouse of 40 years, who was the other parent to my children, whom I still loved as family (just not as a spouse), and my current spouse got mad at me for, along with our kids, leaving a play because we got word she was being taken by ambulance to the hospital, I'd have a big problem with that.

Perhaps, but the second time was a bit much.  I'm not usually (or ever) on Robert's side, and I'm probably not in this case either as he seemed only to be upset about the soda incident.  However, Robert was a bundle of nerves about his performance, there was outside tension (which Sol had amplified), and the play was already a bit of sore spot between him and Sol.  I guess, if I were Sol, I probably would have stayed at the play (with Mallory, by the way....) since both Bud and Coyote were going...and then checked in at intermission and after the play.

But, then again, Robert didn't seem too miffed about it, so whatever....

[MaiSoCalled]

I think in Robert's shoes I'd be angry, but more at the situation than Sol. In truth, my biggest frustration would be that everyone had their cell phones on in the theatre. Mallory as a mother with small children I can understand (begrudgingly), but everyone else? Unplug until intermission. If it was truly life or death, Grace could have gotten in contact with the theatre. 

I did like that Robert was concerned. He knew that his entire family wouldn't have walked out on a lark. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, MaiSoCalled said:

I did like that Robert was concerned. He knew that his entire family wouldn't have walked out on a lark. 

As that scene unfolded, I wondered if he was going to take off after them (knowing by their mass exodus after looking at their phones that something serious was happening), letting the eager beaver understudy take over, and then coming back to reclaim the role in dramatic fashion; so many wacky hijinks had ensued around the play, I wasn't sure quite how broad they were going to go with the comedy.

[ChelleGame]

On 3/25/2017 at 8:07 PM, Lord Donia said:

As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

Totally agree with this.

[Wings]

On 3/25/2017 at 8:07 PM, Lord Donia said:

I like that the ex husbands are still part of Grace & Frankie's lives, even if peripherally. Like, there's no question that Sol will go to the hospital when Frankie falls ill, or that the guys will come to the aid of the women when they're laid out on the floor. There are 40 years of marital history there and I appreciate that the four of them have worked their way to civil, and even friendly, relationships.

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama. As good an actor as Martin Sheen can be, I think he's the weakest link on the show. I've never bought him as being crazy in love with Sol, or even gay, because he comes off as so unnatural and awkward in the role.

I agree with everything you said.   It took Jane a year to talk Lily into doing the series.  Upon hearing this, my immediate thought was she had trouble casting the husbands.  They may not have been even her 4th or 5th choice.  I would put money on it.  I wonder who her first choices were.   

[Aethera]

I directed 1776 not long ago, and I love The West Wing, so watching Bartlet play John Adams (which I'm sure he would have loved to do) was incredibly awesome. I don't find Martin Sheen convincing in his love for Sol, though I think Sam Waterston is more convincing in his love for Robert, but I do think otherwise, he plays the roll well - I believe him when he's frustrated or uncomfortable or trying to figure out how he feels. The way he came home upset was good. He is probably the weakest, but I don't think Martin Sheen sucks or anything, I just think the cast is very, very strong.

I found the TIA scenes moving and well done. I like the light stuff on this show, but I'm glad they're showing real issues. And I think Grace's reactions were very true to the character.

[hnygrl]

I'm glad they didn't play that for laughs. 

My grandmother had a TIA. And later, in the hospital (on the same floor & shift my mother worked) she had a massive stroke and died in her sleep. My mother found her. She really never got over it (how could she?)

I'm glad they didn't play that for laughs.

[JBC344]

I'm gad that Robert a man who survived a massive heart attack a season and a half ago wasn't mad about the family rushing to Frankie's side, it seemed when he heard he was about to head out himself.  I do think the kids did a disservice by texting Sol the second time and telling them Frankie was in the hospital. 

The first time was an emergency, the second was her getting checked out.  There was no need for Sol to rush to the hospital the second time.  The Allison is pregnant was a little too cliché for me partly because as much as I like the actress the character is pretty one note.  If she sticks around I hope she gets expanded more than just being "kooky".

[txhorns79]

I thought Coyote was the wrong character to be standing in judgment of anyone else.  I was surprised Bud never called him out when Coyote was crapping all over Allison.  And am I wrong, or is Ethan Embry suddenly less bald than he was in previous seasons? 

Quote

But I could not care less about the musical and associated shenanigans. A conniving understudy and accidentally spilling a drink on a caricature of a homophobe protestor ... not absorbing drama.

I do feel like the writers sometimes have no idea what to do with Robert and Sol.  I don't think either character is particularly interesting on their own.   

Edited April 19, 2017 by txhorns79

[Lovecat]

On March 26, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Bastet said:

TIA was my diagnosis for Frankie, so it's good to see my career as an armchair doctor is going well.

Not only did I diagnose that TIA, but I totally called Allison being pregnant.  I went to the ER/Grey's Anatomy School of Medicine...you? ;)

[ProudMary]

I love Martin Sheen, always have, but he has absolutely no chemistry whatsoever with Sam Waterston.  Their scenes together are almost painful to watch and that's a big problem for the show because most of their scenes are, naturally, together.  Several times this season though, MS has been paired with one of the other characters and it's been like a revelation to me.   Oh, there he is!  The scene with Jane Fonda when they went to buy a funeral outfit for Robert's mother was very good.  The scene on the patio at the beach house with Lily Tomlin (Jed Bartlet and Debbie Fiderer together again!) was wonderful.  Also, the father/daughter scene with Brooklyn Decker was poignant and beautiful.  I saw the Martin Sheen I've known and loved for years in all of those scenes.  I NEVER see that actor when he's paired with Waterston.  So disappointing.

Add me to the chorus of armchair physicians who called a TIA.  I watched my mom have one so it was a pretty easy call for me to make.

[Yeah No]

I agree that Martin Sheen is not convincing in his relationship with Sol and that there's no chemistry between him and Sam Waterston.  The more they delve into their relationship the worse it gets.  I think the show should have kept them more in the background.  

Wasn't Frankie's doctor Ed Begley, Jr.?  Wow, lots of older actors and actresses on this show, which is great.

I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought the protesters were ridiculous.  I'd have expected that in the 80s, but not today, especially in southern California.

[AZChristian]

16 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Wasn't Frankie's doctor Ed Begley, Jr.?  Wow, lots of older actors and actresses on this show, which is great.

Yep, it sure was.  As soon as he appeared on screen, I yelled, "Ehrlich . . . you're a pig!!!"  (St. Elsewhere reference)

[Reiki]

I’ve been binge watching and have loved the performances but personally dislike Frankie, which is a major surprise to me