Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Guest]

Those episodes were the best not just for being enjoyable episodes but because I still wasn't 100% sure they were going there with Olicity (part of me felt they were just going to be cruel and tease it) but then Oliver was actually jealous and I was like OKAY OKAY WE'RE DOING THIS OMG. IT'S FINE. STAY CALM. ? 

(I was more convinced after 206 when Felicity saw Isabel leave Oliver's hotel room and the whole "You deserve better" conversation but I still had lingering doubts. Then Barry came along and the rest is history!)

Edited February 11, 2018 by Guest

[KenyaJ]

Hee! I was convinced after 206, but yeah, Oliver's jealousy sealed the deal in my mind, especially when Diggle called him out on it.

I love how Barry and Felicity are all sunshine and light and innocent flirtation in those episodes, meanwhile the unresolved sexual tension between Oliver and Felicity just rolls off in waves. It's such a great dichotomy. 

[Featherhat]

I liked Barry/Felicity in those episodes and their "date" both at Queen Mansion and in 104 of the Flash, I thought they were sweet. I think that if Barry had stayed on Arrow they'd have done something more with it, but being on different shows made it a one and done date night.

I don't think they seriously considered moving her over to the Flash and they'd probably have brought Iris in sooner or that if he'd stayed on Arrow. The Flash has already talked about possibly bringing in Sue Dibney eventually.

i think one of my favourite scenes from the whole Barry/Felicity/jealousy plotline was Oliver's "FYI they will card him at the bar!" Both SA's delivery and smirk. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Featherhat

[Guest]

I definitely would've preferred Barry/Felicity over Ray/Felicity as the temporary relationship tbh. Simply because although B/F had similarities, they didn't sound like white noise when they both spoke whereas R/F talking a mile a minute in their scenes just made me want to tear my hair out. Also the whole stalker thing with Ray but let's not go there. LOL.

[Morrigan2575]

I loved Barry/Felicity not as much as Olicity but, they were adorable.

For me, the biggest problem with Ray/Felicity is that they wrote a romance that didn't suit BRs acting. They tried for this suave/sexy alternative version to Olicity but, BR didn't have that type of Charm.

BR plays goofy/sweet well, trying to make him James Bond or Bruce Wayne just wasn't going to work, IMO.  Unfortunately, I think they came up with the story/idea before casting BR and refused to (or couldn't) see the problem with the acting vs the writing.

I still say, had they cast Justin Hartley (who I wanted so bad) as Ray Palmer we'd have been in a totally different boat with Ray/Felicity because he had that level of charm/warmth (as seen on Smallville).

Edited February 11, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[SmallScreenDiva]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

BR plays goofy/sweet well, trying to make him James Bond or Bruce Wayne just wasn't going to work, IMO.  Unfortunately, I think they came up with the story/idea before casting BR and refused to (or couldn't) see the problem with the acting vs the writing.

I think they did start realizing the disconnect but it was fairly late in the season. They finally got Ray right in "Broken Arrow," IMO. The Ray in that episode is closest to the Ray we have now

Quote

I love how Barry and Felicity are all sunshine and light and innocent flirtation in those episodes, meanwhile the unresolved sexual tension between Oliver and Felicity just rolls off in waves. It's such a great dichotomy. 

@KenyaJ, this is such an accurate description of those two dynamics. I enjoyed seeing Oliver sort of out of kilter — he didn't know how to handle his growing feeling for Felicity and just wanted to throttle this nice young man who's making eyes at his "not" girl, LOL! Of course, being mean to Barry means Felicity gets mad at him so he's pissed and jealous and broody and I loved every minute of it. 

208/209 are among my top Arrow episodes and I will always be grateful for them giving me ...

Edited February 11, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think they did start realizing the disconnect but it was fairly late in the season. They finally got Ray right in "Broken Arrow," IMO. The Ray in that episode is closest to the Ray we have now

@KenyaJ

 

I agree that they finally started writing to BRs ability. However, I can never decide if it's because, at this point the temp relationship was over and, there was no need to keep him as the romantic lead. Or if it just took them thst long to get a clue.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[KenyaJ]

The Larry meme is one of the greatest things that came out of those episodes! 

34 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I think one of my favourite scenes from the whole Barry/Felicity/jealousy plotline was Oliver's "FYI they will card him at the bar!" Both SA's delivery and smirk. 

That's my favorite moment from both episodes. It's hilarious, but also Oliver and Felicity look so gorgeous together in that scene. Hello, Mr. and Mrs. Queen. ?

21 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I still say, had they cast Justin Hartley (who I wanted so bad) as Ray Palmer we'd have been in a totally different boat with Ray/Felicity because he had that level of charm/warmth (as seen on Smallville).

Forgive this blasphemous thought, but if they had cast Justin as Ray, I would've shipped him and Felicity in a polyamorous throuple with Oliver. Sorry, not sorry.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, KenyaJ said:

Forgive this blasphemous thought, but if they had cast Justin as Ray, I would've shipped him and Felicity in a polyamorous throuple with Oliver. Sorry, not sorry.

I've been with Arrow fandom in full, since April of S1 so I've lived most of this. I tell you that in S2 I loved Sara as BC so much I was willing to sacrifice Olicity to keep Sara as BC.  My other blasphemy is that if Justin Hartley was Ray I would have abandoned Olicity (maybe permenantly) in favor of Raylicity ?.

I suppose I should be really happy that they cast BR instead although I think a Oliver/Felicity/Ray triangle would have been so much more if JH played Ray.

[statsgirl]

On his audition, GG really put a lot of energy into making Barry interesting and quirky, much like EBR did with Felicity.  It really raises the character off the page into being a real person rather than a role.

I don't think I would have liked a Felicity/Barry stall romance any more than I liked Raylicity.  It's too much "B couple" like the secondary couple of a Shakespeare play (e.g. Hero and Claudio vs Beatrice and Benedick) so it would have annoyed me plus we already had Thea and Roy for that, although maybe I would have been glad for Felicity to have someone once Oliver started doing those PDAs with Sara in the lair.

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

  She also said that SA was not part of the approval process, mentioning that he had not done much before Arrow.  She also said that she followed him on twitter before SA knew that she was the producers' choice, and thought he was "really hot".  Per KC, Stephen noticed that she had followed him on twitter and he went to the producers and said, "Katie Cassidy just followed me on twitter. Is she? Are you?" and they were like, "yeah... what do you think of that?" and Stephen was like, "I like that".

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/the-man-who-helped-build-the-cw?utm_term=.mvBb71Eg9#.xqb1Ra7LX 

-- Video of KC panel at MCM Hannover Comic Con (May 20, 2017):
When asked about auditioning for Arrow (fan recited the audition process), KC replied that's how it normally works but then said: "I had been on The CW for quite some time, uh, before that, working for them on Supernatural and Melrose Place and Gossip Girl, you know, and having done those things, I felt like, being part of The CW, I was a part of their family. So, when I read the script, um, my process was a little bit different because I had an established - I had a relationship with the creators and the producers. I knew them, they knew me quite well. So when I read the script, I immediately was, like, I'm not reading anything else, this is the one I want. That really stressed my manager and agent out, because you never really know if you end up being the - you know, being the one who's going to get it. I was just like, I don't want to read anything else. This is the one that I want to go for. So, they - I had a meeting with them and then basically, just a - like a screen test. And did it. I was extremely nervous, but did it anyhow. And ended up - yeah, I ended up finding out later that night that I was - I was the one who got the part."

I wonder what would have happened if they had been chem tested.  SA was the perfect Arrow and they were counting on him to sell the pilot to turn into a show but KC was the CW's darling and seems to have had the pull with them.  Would it have been a case of "which do we keep, SA or KC?" or would they have swerved from writing Laurel as Oliver's love interest from the pilot and not written the rest of season 1 as a Vampire Diaries knock-off?

[KenyaJ]

That's a really interesting question. David Rappaport mentioned that they intended the show as more of an ensemble show, but they shifted to focus primarily on Oliver. That was obviously after the pilot, though. But even so, I have to imagine it was more important to get the titular character right than the lead actress. They clearly felt that SA was perfect for the role and KC says he was cast before her, so I'm guessing they would have kept him and maybe created another non-love interest role for KC? They could've put her in Lance's role, actually. Kept her with Tommy and made her an old friend of Oliver's who doesn't know she's chasing after her old friend. It's funny because I think that could've given her a more important place in Oliver's story than the one she ended up having due to the lack of chemistry.

ETA: Since the show has never been wedded to the idea of Black Canary as Oliver's love interest, I suppose they could have just made KC Black Canary from the start, or at least made it clear that she was on that path.

Edited February 11, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Featherhat]

I'm not sure KC would have accepted a non LI/leading lady role though. She seems too excited by the Laurel part and presumably the promise of eventually being BC to be content with having "Laurel the Rachel Dawes Knock off/Cop Only and Not Love Interest". She certainly clung to the idea that Lauriver might happen again for a long time, even if it was only her head cannon. She'd already served her time on the CW in supporting roles, this was her big moment to be the new Nina Dobrev of the network. Especially as it was worked as a Vampire Diaries style love triangle that would sustain it for a few seasons. In reality it didn't even sustain it for a full season. 

And IMO KC and SA didn't even have "old friends" chemistry, so it may have ended up with her having a smaller part anyway, even if there was never any romance. Even after they dropped Lauriver early in S2 they still ended up giving Lance the "I'm suddenly changing my deeply held beliefs to work with the Hood" storyline which had originally gone to Laurel as well, whilst she floundered in her own side story for most of the season, not even having much to do with Sara. (bitter about that last one). 

I mean it would have helped if they'd lessened the toxic backstory for Laurel and Oliver, for sure but even when they were supposed to be happier in flashbacks I didn't buy their relationship. Laurel was applying to law school and studying for the LSATs and wanted to move in with a guy who had just dropped out of his 4th school in 4 years and she was planning on getting engaged a year or so after that. That was never going to work, even if Robert had bribed yet another school to take Oliver in in the same city Laurel was studying or forced him to take a job at the company. She'd have been better off finding a nice well off but ambitious fellow student and planned to be a moving and shaking power couple that way. I'm sure there would have been a lot of takers. 

[statsgirl]

I don't think it would have worked to not make her even a temporary love interest because as long as there was going to be a Laurel Lance on the show, comic book readers were going to demand that she be Oliver Queen's love interest and the general audience was going to want the leading man and leading lady to hook up together.

Once they realized that it wasn't going to work as a love relationship, the EPs did the only thing they could, which was to play it out to end it while looking for an alternate love interest for Oliver (Helena, McKenna, Felicity ... it probably would have continued if they hadn't hit it with Felicity).

Over the past couple of days, I've watched the end of the fifth season of Inspector Lynley Mysteries and the second season finale of Cardinale and noticed that they both ended the same way -- the wife of the lead male was killed off (one by accident the other by suicide) leaving the way open for him to get together with his female second in command even though in both those cases the guy was better off with his wife (IMO). It's something the audience tends to demand.

[SmallScreenDiva]

On 2/7/2018 at 1:15 PM, statsgirl said:

They also kept us from knowing what Felicity was thinking in 5a when Billy was around. It seems to be their default when they want to stall Olicity  because they want to show us what Oliver is thinking and if they showed Felicity's thinking too, there would not be a reason to keep them apart. 

Did they show what Oliver was thinking, though? We didn't get any explanation why he was dating Susan until she was kidnapped, I think, and Diggle said something about Oliver being lonely. Oliver just kind of nodded. 

On a slightly different topic, even now I'm still not quite sure how Oliver lying about his son connected to Felicity working with Helix and making a realization. Maybe I need to watch those episodes again. I'm having a difficult time seeing a throughline.

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

On a slightly different topic, even now I'm still not quite sure how Oliver lying about his son connected to Felicity working with Helix and making a realization. Maybe I need to watch those episodes again. I'm having a difficult time seeing a throughline.

From what I remember, it was that Felicity wasn't sharing what was going on with her and Helix with Oliver. Since she and Oliver weren't together, keeping it from him wasn't the big connector. However, once Oliver found out, he didn't want Felicity to have to compromise herself like he does or become like him, which Felicity pointed out doesn't make sense as she didn't know that Oliver already convinced himself that what he said to Chase about himself was true. In the 520 flashbacks it's then revealed that Felicity's main issue with the secret was that she didn't know why he couldn't trust her. In present day Felicity then accused Oliver of not trusting her judgment with Helix and then they were trapped in a life-death situation. Facing death, Oliver confesses that the real issue wasn't trusting her judgment rather than him not being able to trust himself (which was how Felicity was approaching the Helix situation, by doing what Oliver does, admittedly to a far lesser extent). Felicity then, presumably remembering the flashbacks as we were watching it, recognized that Oliver's admission of him being unable to trust himself explains both his behavior with confronting her with Helix and his actions with seemingly not being able to trust her back in s4.

Or at least that's how I kind of saw it. It's kind of weird to explain but for some reason it made sense to me?

Edited February 11, 2018 by way2interested

[SmallScreenDiva]

52 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Or at least that's how I kind of saw it. It's kind of weird to explain but for some reason it made sense to me?

No, that part makes sense to me ... what I still don't see is the connection to Oliver lying about his son. The way I see it, the whole Helix thing with Felicity, the whole trust thing was more about their work as vigilantes. As Oliver said, the foundation of what they're doing is based on a lie, that's why he doesn't really trust himself. I get that the show eve in S4 framed the whole breakup as about trust and about partnership but the explanation they gave felt lacking to me.

But at this point, Olicity is married so it's not a big deal anymore. It just bugs me sometimes, LOL!

Edited February 11, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[way2interested]

20 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

what I still don't see is the connection to Oliver lying about his son.

That's kind of what I meant. That it wasn't so much as them connecting to each other as much as both of them connecting to Oliver's trust issue.

[tangerine95]

I don't think even the writers are sure how the helix thing connected with lying about William tbh.I explain it to myself as Felicity realized how easy it is to make mistakes and decide to do things on your own instead of relying on those close to you so she could understand how Oliver made the mistake of lying and excluding her.And Oliver realized why he lied in the first place which was his tendency to do things alone because he's afraid of how certain truths could change the way Felicity feels about him.It always seemed to me,before they tried to make it seem like Samantha's ultimatum was law,that Oliver was afraid Felicity will leave him if she knew which was helped by Barry wrongly confirming that.But I'm really not sure if that was the intention,they tried in season 5 to make the William thing a general lack of trust instead of just that one situation which was already illogical and ooc for Oliver anyway imo.

[Mellowyellow]

I want Oliver to acknowledge/complement Felicity on her stunning looks like he did in that very fanficcy book! 

[SmallScreenDiva]

6 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

The Larry meme is one of the greatest things that came out of those episodes! 

You can buy it as a shirt! There's a unisex version. I want it so bad, LOL! To wear to the next con :)

Edited February 12, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[Morrigan2575]

I miss that fan. She used to have the best recaps

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Did they show what Oliver was thinking, though? We didn't get any explanation why he was dating Susan until she was kidnapped, I think, and Diggle said something about Oliver being lonely. Oliver just kind of nodded. 

On a slightly different topic, even now I'm still not quite sure how Oliver lying about his son connected to Felicity working with Helix and making a realization. Maybe I need to watch those episodes again. I'm having a difficult time seeing a throughline.

To me, it seemed that Oliver wanted Felicity and if he couldn't have her, he'd find someone else  because he'd been so happy with Felicity, he wanted some part of that feeling back rather than the cold cell he had limited himself to after  he got back from the island. Why he picked Susan to date made no sense ever unless he'd totally forgotten what she did to Thea.

The only way I can see the lying connecting to Felicity and Helix is that sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do  and you need your partner to just trust you.  It's a pretty paltry connection but there is no way that I can see that they could ever justify the lying in s4.

[BkWurm1]

I went with Felicity walking a mile in the dark grey (Helix  and doing whatever it takes to make something happen no matter the risks or bridges you burn aka freeing Cayden James) let her realize how easy that all or nothing mentality can mess with your judgment leading to making really crappy choices like thinking you have to lie to your fiance about your secret kid, but the bigger revelation was knowing that Oliver now knew why he'd acted like he hadn't trusted her meant that he could change or they could stay on top of it as a problem so they could move forward because she felt safe trusting him to deep down trust her?

Honestly, it was incredibly NOT clear but  I was just so happy for it to be over, I was happy to bend over backward to try and make sense of it.       

[Kymmi]

Just catching up on this thread, but back to the acting choices SA and EBR make, I was really impressed with the short scene of them in the limo following Laurel's funeral (back when it was just a flashback, ah those halcyon days).  SA made these subtle hand movements, like he didn't know what to do with them.  At one point they moved next to him, like they were going to reach over and grab Felicity's hand, but she said something and he pulled them back.  It was subtle, but really worked for me.

 

 

 

 

[BkWurm1]

Ouch.  The distance, emotionally and physically, hurts to look at.

Edited February 13, 2018 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

I came across this 2015 A.V. Club article on "shipping" (includes an Olicity mention), which I had never read before. It's long and I only quoted two excerpts, so you may wish to read the entire thing. Of course, this article was written before the Olicity breakup in S4B and subsequent ratings drop. Also, one might quibble about the "based largely on fan response" comment below...

Won’t they? The power (and pitfalls) of ’shipping
Genevieve Valentine    2/10/15 
https://tv.avclub.com/won-t-they-the-power-and-pitfalls-of-shipping-1798276411

Quote

When it comes to ’shippers who determined the course of entire series, though, probably the most iconic are the original-issue Trekkies, who traded fanzines filled with romantic fanfiction during the 1960s run of Star Trek, giving romantic second chances to Kirk and Spock, Spock and Chapel, and probably Kirk again (and again, and again). And though the occasional mimeographed kissy-face is easy to dismiss as romantic daydreaming, fan work is an act of ownership. For Trek watchers, fanfiction often interrogated the show itself: examining queer subtext, expanding on the series’ social-justice underpinnings, and giving unofficial airtime to characters who were sidelined by the canon—often characters of color. Fanfiction hit new heights during the late 1990s, when online message boards and chat rooms made it increasingly easier for fans to connect, and the coexistence of The X-Files and Buffy The Vampire Slayer meant two cult fandoms operating at peak interest. Today, fanfic has homes all over the web (there’s Tumblr, Comic-Con, Fanfiction.net, and recap sites where fans can dissect longing glances and discuss the might-have-beens and might-still-bes). Sometimes fanfic is just a ’shipper playground: Elementary’s showrunners have declared that Joan Watson and Sherlock Holmes are determinedly platonic, and so anyone wanting to explore subtext will seek it elsewhere. But amid the sandbox-playing and the many 50 Shades epics lurking in the ether, there are are thousands of fan works for existing series that interrogate the text as much as they wish-fulfill.
*  *  *
This smaller feedback loop has its backlash: terms like “fan service” and “’shipper” have become vaguely derisive—and, not coincidentally, are often associated with the gendered “fangirl.” It’s most often applied to fans who appear to watch a show primarily for the romantic aspect, or for whom a romantic aspect becomes the impetus for fan work. But to divide the audience into perceived strata based on the ways they enjoy a show is something of a false process. (There’s not a television show in the world casting actors in the hopes nobody will have any chemistry; that’s the antithesis of hanging on to viewers.) The bottom line for nearly any TV series is in the size of the audience numbers—if not in volume, than in dedication. Shows that misjudge audience enthusiasm when it comes to a central ’ship can find themselves suffering: Sleepy Hollow has made several mistakes in its second season, but attempting to explore the dead-in-the-war Crane marriage at the expense of the chemistry between Ichabod and Abbie (not coincidentally, a woman of color) has cost the show a third of its audience. And plenty of shows regularly take note of the feedback: Oliver and Felicity have been locked in as Arrow’s endgame relationship based largely on fan response to Felicity, and the series’ audience numbers continue to rise.

Edited February 14, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From Arrow 207 (State v Queen):
Oliver (to Felicity): "Hey. Hey. Shh, shh. It's all right. You're safe."

(Olicity Queen)

From LoT 308 (Crisis on Earth-X, Part 4):
Oliver (to Earth-X Felicity): "Hey, hey, hey, you're okay. No, no, no, you're fine. You're fine."

(SmoakQueen)

[tv echo]

Flashback Thursday: SA talking about Felicity at WonderCon 2013 (Mar. 31, 2013)...

-- When asked if the chemistry between Oliver & Felicity was real and what he thinks of their relationship, SA: "Of course, their chemistry is real. I love working with Emily. I have loved working with Emily since our first scene in Episode 3, which we actually reference in Episode 22, I think. And, uh, she's the only person who's - you know, as much as Oliver enjoys Diggle - she's the only person that, you know, I get to be myself in front of. And, um, I'm sure that that's - I mean, that's a really lovely thing for Oliver. And so, I enjoy that people on the internet have their Oliver-Felicity love. I like that a lot."

(Olicity OTA Arrow)

-- When asked if there's more to Oliver & Felicity's relationship or whether it's just a lot of subtext, SA: "I - you know, I'm a boy and she's a girl. And she's very - you know, she's - she's very pretty and smart and capable, as we are finding out in upcoming episodes, where we get to dress her up again in, uh, Episode 21. Uh, but, uh, you know, the reality of it is, she's the one person right now of the opposite sex - as lovely as Diggle is - that I can be myself with. And there's obviously something that, you know - that certainly makes her attractive to me, I think." 

(It was red)

-- In response to interviewer commenting that Oliver was having trouble keeping his secret, SA: "In fairness... he had planned to tell two of the three people that he told. And I guess the leader of the Royal Flush Gang also knew. He died shortly thereafter, so that doesn't totally count. But, I mean, he told Diggle on purpose. He didn't have to. Um, he had to tell Felicity, but I think he was going to tell her anyway. And she also already kinda knew. Didn't want to tell Tommy. But saved his father's life."

(ComicsOnline)

Edited March 1, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

 

 

Ma'am, no one has ever shipped Felicity and Ollie, LOL. Most of us thought it felt wrong to even hear her say "Ollie" when she was speaking to Thea in 321.  I'm glad that when Stephen answered her question, he used "Oliver." 

[Mary0360]

On 12/02/2018 at 7:02 AM, statsgirl said:

 

Over the past couple of days, I've watched the end of the fifth season of Inspector Lynley Mysteries and the second season finale of Cardinale and noticed that they both ended the same way -- the wife of the lead male was killed off (one by accident the other by suicide) leaving the way open for him to get together with his female second in command even though in both those cases the guy was better off with his wife (IMO). It's something the audience tends to demand.

Lauriver fans are still counting on this. That the writers will give Olicity fans their marriage, redeem Black Siren and have her become Black Canary in the interim, then kill Felicity off and have the series end with Oliver moving past his grief to realise his love for the doppelgänger of his past love, that even by her own omission he never really seemed that into. 

 

On 12/02/2018 at 2:05 PM, statsgirl said:

To me, it seemed that Oliver wanted Felicity and if he couldn't have her, he'd find someone else  because he'd been so happy with Felicity, he wanted some part of that feeling back rather than the cold cell he had limited himself to after  he got back from the island. Why he picked Susan to date made no sense ever unless he'd totally forgotten what she did to Thea.

He was on the rebound and Susan made sure to throw herself in his path whenever she could to the point of convincing his security to tip her off to his where abouts. 

 

I think the 5x20 flashbacks gave more context to Oliver's motivations with Susan that was harder to understand when it was playing out. He had pledged to wait for Felicity until she was ready to address the problems in their relationship, and seeing her with Billy made him believe Felicity's decision was that she no longer wanted a relationship with him, so he moved on to the first pretty face that showed an interest. 

 

What the flashbacks made a little hard for me to understand was Felicity's motivations for dating Billy as she'd asked Oliver for time before she was ready to discuss their relationship future and had Oliver indicate that he was waiting for her till she was ready, and this presumably happened not long before she started things with Billy.

 

My only head canon for that was that Billy was like some kind of gatekeeper, that Felicity was dating to keep her from falling back into things with Oliver before she was ready emotionally. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Mary0360 said:

My only head canon for that was that Billy was like some kind of gatekeeper, that Felicity was dating to keep her from falling back into things with Oliver before she was ready emotionally. 

Yeah, that's been my go to assumption as well.  Add to that the odd need in season five to use the resources of the SCPD given damage to equipment in the Bunker.  Maybe she initially just tried to flirt up a friendship and then decided he was a nice, uncomplicated guy and since she wasn't ready to restart anything with Oliver ( he wasn't showing any signs that he was changing or coming up with answers about why he hadn't trusted her) she started dating Billy so as to not get back with Oliver just because she was wildly attracted to and still loved him.   

Or because they decided in the winter finale Oliver was going to accidentally kill Felicity's boyfriend so they needed her to have a boyfriend.  

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Or because they decided in the winter finale Oliver was going to accidentally kill Felicity's boyfriend so they needed her to have a boyfriend.

More likely this.

Also didn't Berlanti decided he wanted a Crossover wedding?

They might have gotten a memo to stall Olicity until they can have big story about marriage in the crossover leading to a crossover wedding.

[lemotomato]

People on twitter pointed out that 3 years ago today was the Paleyfest panel with the Arrow cast and I saw someone on tumblr gifed this exchange:
(gif set from: http://simonlewis.tumblr.com/post/113657152464)

 

 

Keeping in mind that at the last episode that had aired before Paleyfest was 3.15, but the episode they were filming at the time was 3.20, Stephen absolutely has the worst poker expression ever in the lower left gif, lol.

[Guest]

He looks like he's trying not to smile. Haha.

[KenyaJ]

Ha. Just last night, for some random reason, I started thinking about how giddy he was a few months before that at Comic Con when he was talking about how Oliver was only going to have one love interest that year. I ship these two so hard, but even I aspire to Stephen's level of Olicity shipping.

Edited March 15, 2018 by KenyaJ

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 hours ago, lemotomato said:

People on twitter pointed out that 3 years ago today was the Paleyfest panel with the Arrow cast and I saw someone on tumblr gifed this exchange:
(gif set from: http://simonlewis.tumblr.com/post/113657152464)

 

 

Keeping in mind that at the last episode that had aired before Paleyfest was 3.15, but the episode they were filming at the time was 3.20, Stephen absolutely has the worst poker expression ever in the lower left gif, lol.

I wonder if Emily (and Stephen) had already been told about the plans for an Olicity wedding at this point, or if Emily is just being sassy. I mean, we've been told that actors don't usually get a lot of heads-up on some story lines (like when they're about to get killed off).

(Also, I loved her hair during this Paley Fest)

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder if Emily (and Stephen) had already been told about the plans for an Olicity wedding at this point, or if Emily is just being sassy.

I think Stephen knew how 3.23 would end even before the season started, so he might have told Emily. I doubt the writers had planned out all of season 4 at that point, though.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I think Stephen knew how 3.23 would end even before the season started, so he might have told Emily. I doubt the writers had planned out all of season 4 at that point, though.

I was actually wondering about it in more general terms, that Oliver and Felicity would end up getting married at some point, not necessarily what was gonna happen in Season 4. I agree Stephen probably knew about 323, it seems they give him a general outline of the season. Not sure if they do the same with Emily, although they did let her know she was safe from the grave before Season 4 began.

[KenyaJ]

Wasn't this a couple of days before the Paleyfest? What a jerk.  ?

[Velocity23]

3 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Wasn't this a couple of days before the Paleyfest? What a jerk.  ?

One day after Paley. 

[calliope1975]

That grin. He's such a shipper.

[Soulfire]

Love this development --

 

 

 

 

Kudos here.

[KenyaJ]

I saw it on Tumblr this morning and grinned so hard.

[bijoux]

These two sets are so great, showing Oliver loving and being loved. Both done by gothsmoak.

  

  

  

Oliver crying while saying goodbye to his family

 

Queen Family + their fear of losing Oliver

I always forget what a baby William was in S4 simply due to the fact that the storyline he was in was so annoying.

[Mellowyellow]

I am watching S1 Olicity scenes for research purposes and to think he went from having a soft spot for her to chasing her so she'd marry him!

I forgot how mean and jealous S2 Oliver was!!!!

I am so used to seeing him all smitten and/or tragic looking when it comes to Felicity I forgot how sulky and jealous he was about Barry! Hee! 

[statsgirl]

And then completely indifferent to how much she was hurt when he was doing all those PDAs with Sara in the lair. The Selfish Oliver of seasons 1 and 2 I don't like very much.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Was it indifference, though? We've talked on this board about how Oliver began realizing his feelings for Felicity much earlier on. I've kinda wondered if there wasn't a little bit of intention in there to "show" Felicity that he was over her, too, despite the fact she seemed pretty oblivious to his feelings. This was after the big 2x10 convo where Oliver seemed to have settled it in his head that whatever crush Felicity was harboring for him was just that — a crush — and that she seems really into Barry, since she's traveling all the way to Central City to visit the dude in a coma. 

[Mellowyellow]

Upon rewatching it felt like she was visiting Barry A LOT for a dude she wasn't even dating! 

I can see emotionally stunted Oliver having an internal meltdown about it.

Even in his more mature mellow phases he's always gone a bit funny over her such as trying to lure her in with the fake wedding in S4 and then even in the crossover he couldn't let it go when she didn't want to marry him. I actually totally understand why he did what he did in S4 and the crossover and don't blame him one bit (or Felicity either) but I think it does explain his meanness in S2.

[Guest]

Oliver whenever he's involved with one of the Lance sisters is a bit of a dick anyway but I do think part of him was trying to distract himself from his feelings for Felicity in s2. I always felt like Diggle basically saying he was jealous of Barry in 210 kind of unsettled him because perhaps it made him realize his feelings were more serious than he thought. And he distanced himself as a result?

(It could also be that they wanted the audience to be surprised when he told Felicity he loved her in the season finale and maybe his so-called indifference was part of that.)

I do remember thinking in 214 how weird it was that he didn't notice how sad or uncomfortable Felicity felt though. Up until that point he'd seemed pretty well attuned to her but suddenly he was all about Sara and Diggle was the only one who could see Felicity was having some trouble adjusting. IDK. The whole thing was strange. That was one of my least fave episodes so I've only seen it once. Maybe I'm misremembering or my impression would be different now. *Shrugs*

[insomniadreams88]

I always blame the weirdness of season 2 on the whole "he was jealous"/"he wasn't jealous" interviews. Didn't we get contradicting interviews about Oliver/Felicity before and after Oliver/Sara happened?