Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Mellowyellow]

I give EBR and SA so much credit for being the perfect Felicity and Oliver together. Every look is perfect and just conveys this epic love of a lifetime no matter what they're doing together.

So often the initial set up of a ship is fun and thrilling and I enjoy the thrill of the chase if the chemistry is decent enough. Once they're together I feel that the lustre fades a little even if the storyline for the couple is still good. 

EBR and SA manage to keep that magic in Olicity. I've probably watched and cooed over at least 50 ships, some of which are from famous novels and lauded as the ultimate love stories by fans and critics for decades (Chinese stuff) but Olicity will always be the most outstanding and special to me because of the magnificent on-screen chemistry between those two.  

[KenyaJ]

Yeah, it's amazing that their chemistry was so powerful that it changed the entire course of the show. And their chemistry has just gotten better and stronger with each season. As they demonstrated in 707, they can speak volumes in their scenes with no dialogue necessary. They are the very definition of an OTP.

Here's an epic Twitter thread celebrating their journey together. 

[BkWurm1]

I love that thread!  Makes me misty.  Even tempts me to do a rewatch of season three.  

In looking at that thread it makes me laugh to remember all the uncertainty and worry over if they would really ever go there between them.  It wasn't the plan when she was first introduced and yet the show still managed to capture a huge range of firsts in season one that make the whole relationship in retrospective seem inevitable. 

And by season 2?  They were hitting us over the head before that weird barren stretch in the back half when he was with Sara, but even then, in the middle of an episode where Felicity literally had like two or three lines, she's the voice that punches through all the noise and indecision when Sara and the rest were arguing with Oliver about going after Slade to save Thea; Felicity was the one that understood what Oliver needed to do.

In some ways, it's one of the most romantic moments between them.  She speaks and all his confusion fades away.  Really, she speaks and it's like the rest of the world fades away for him.  

It's amazing anyone is ever surprised that Felicity embraces the "whatever it takes" mentality when she's so ardently advocated for Oliver to do just that when the situation is  warranted.  

[tv echo]

I just posted a TSR article on great Olicity moments in observance of their one-year wedding anniversary in the Starling City Times thread.

[BkWurm1]

I saw that article on Twitter and clicked on it without any intent of reading it, just to give it some love, but I really enjoyed it in unexpected ways.  

[tv echo]

The parallels between Oliver & Laurel and Oliver & Felicity indicate a disturbing pattern: Oliver seems to idealize the women he loves when he's forcibly separated from them and then to treat them as extensions of himself...

• When Oliver was away for five years, he had that photo of Laurel that he frequently looked and which symbolized home for him.  
• When Oliver was in prison, he had the photo of Felicity & William that he frequently looked at and which symbolized home for him.

• In a flashback scene in 419, Laurel read a letter that Oliver left behind for her (after Tommy's death) in which he wrote: "You've always seen the best in me because you've always been the best of me."
• When Oliver married Felicity in 308 of LoT, he said: "I remember saying something along the lines of, you're the very best part of me. Felicity, I'm a better human being just because I've loved you." Then again in 708, Oliver said to Felicity: "You will always be the best part of me. For the rest of my life."

So if Oliver stops loving Felicity because she no longer reflects the "best" part of him, then he's a big effin' hypocrite and loser. For once - for once, I'd like Oliver to love a woman for herself and not for what she does for him.

Shakespeare's Sonnet 116
Let me not to the marriage of true minds 
Admit impediments. Love is not love 
Which alters when it alteration finds, 
Or bends with the remover to remove. 
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark 
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; 
It is the star to every wand'ring bark, 
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken. 
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks 
Within his bending sickle's compass come; 
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, 
But bears it out even to the edge of doom. 
If this be error and upon me prov'd, 
I never writ, nor no man ever lov'd.

Edited December 4, 2018 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

While I agree that Oliver definitely has a problem with putting the women in his life on a pedestal (he did that with Thea and Moira too), I vehemently disagree that he stopped loving them when he found out they weren’t the idealized versions that he had in his head. His relationship with Laurel didn’t end because he stopped loving her, it ended because they had an unhealthy relationship in the first place, then he cheated on her with her sister, then he came back and lied to her for 2 years about who he really was and what he was doing. And Oliver didn’t give any indication in 708 that he stopped loving or can’t love the “new” Felicity. 

[calliope1975]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

So if Oliver stops loving Felicity because she no longer reflects the "best" part of him, then he's a big effin' hypocrite and loser. For once - for once, I'd like Oliver to love a woman for herself and not for what she does for him.

I don't see this either. The biggest problem, and one that isn't going away, is we only see a minute worth of conversation between the two, and the writers/directors/editors don't know how to let a scene breathe. While dialogue may have been repeated between the couples (and that's on bad writing, which I understand is all we have to go on) Laurel and Oliver were missing the respect factor. You don't cheat on your girlfriend's sister and any other woman who walks by, if you respect her. You don't end a conversation about moving in with your girlfriend by hopping a boat to China with said sister. I can't see Felicity's Oliver doing that in a million years. I also suspect he latched onto Laurel's picture because that's all he had. If it had been Thea's pic, he'd have done the same thing. 

Does Oliver have issues? Hells yeah. Do I like the way this current situation with Felicity is bearing out on-screen? Hells no. I need about 4 more minutes of conversation in that last scene. But I still can't compare the two relationships in a meaningful way. 

[Mellowyellow]

Dammit Oliver you should have said "I love you" in that last scene.

You do it at the worse times like before you're heading off to die so why didn't you do it here. 

I want to slap the bejesus out of him sometimes.

[bijoux]

Having watched the episode, that didn't feel like Oliver idealizing Felicity in the past, but him telling her that it wasn't true that she was weak back then. It could have been clearer, but so could so many other things in Arrow. 

In their last scene he lit up like a Christmas tree when she said she loved him more than she should, so I think that conveyed the love without using the words. I'm fine on that account. 

I do think all this needs follow up, but I'm not writing it off on the basis on this episode alone. The trouble is they had so little screen time while Oliver was being saddled with Rene and Dinah even more. I do hope that he reflects on Felicity's words about her and William being left alone. But there's this network we're supposed to have. Trained vigilante friends, super gocerment agency back up. You should have been protected. -Yeah.... About that... 

[insomniadreams88]

5 hours ago, bijoux said:

In their last scene he lit up like a Christmas tree when she said she loved him more than she should

Yep. I love how Oliver reacts to hearing Felicity loves him, just in the last half a season's worth of episodes. 708 in this scene, 621, 618 ... 

[Mellowyellow]

I realised the other day I would like him to tell her she's beautiful one day! Just because! I read it so often in fanfic I think it's canon but I realised I haven't seen it onscreen!

If you find it onscreen point me to it! 

[tv echo]

42 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I realised the other day I would like him to tell her she's beautiful one day! Just because! I read it so often in fanfic I think it's canon but I realised I haven't seen it onscreen!

If you find it onscreen point me to it! 

I have no record of Oliver ever telling Felicity that she's beautiful (though it's possible I missed it). Instead, we've gotten the following...

223 (Unthinkable)
Oliver (to Slade, about Shado): “I remember her being beautiful. Young. Kind. And she would be horrified by what you've done in her name.”

307 (Draw Back Your Bow)
Ray: “You look beautiful.”
Felicity: “I think it's the dress.”

508 (Invasion!)
Oliver (seeing AlienHallucination Laurel in her wedding dress): "I... oh, wow. You, um - you look beautiful."
AlienHallucination Laurel: "I called you over 20 times last night."

Edited December 5, 2018 by tv echo

[way2interested]

Didn't he say she looked perfect for their fake wedding? Not beautiful per se, but the subext was so.

[tv echo]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Didn't he say she looked perfect for their fake wedding? Not beautiful per se, but the subext was so.

Yes...

416 (Broken Heart)
(Felicity enters in her wedding dress, and Oliver just stares at her.)
Felicity: "Everything okay?"
Oliver: "Yes. Yeah. You look perfect." 

Of course, he also said the same thing about his new bow ;) ...

201 (City of Heroes)
Felicity: “You're going to need this. I had it custom made. (Shows Oliver the new compound bow in a case) How'd I do?”
Oliver: “It's perfect.”

Edited December 5, 2018 by tv echo

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Of course, he also said the same thing about his new bow ;) ...

Yes, because he definitely said those two lines the exact same ways in the exact same kinds of context

[lemotomato]

Over the course of the show, the only times they’ve slowed a scene down, played dramatic romantic music in the background, and showed Oliver staring in awe at a woman, he was looking at Felicity. See: 1.15, 3.01, 4.16, and 6.09. I’ll take those moments over words any day.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Over the course of the show, the only times they’ve slowed a scene down, played dramatic romantic music in the background, and showed Oliver staring in awe at a woman, he was looking at Felicity. See: 1.15, 3.01, 4.16, and 6.09. I’ll take those moments over words any day.

WORD. Or the fact that his face LITERALLY lit up whenever he was in scenes with her in season one. At a time when he was supposedly still in )&%)(*&$ with Laurel. And the look of...self-loathing and pain after they returned from Russia, when Felicity asked Oliver why he boinked Isabel. That told me all I needed to know.

Edited December 5, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule
Because proper grammar usage is important

[tv echo]

Guys, I was joking with the "perfect" bow quote.

[SmallScreenDiva]

20 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Guys, I was joking with the "perfect" bow quote.

I saw the wink, I gotcha 😊😉

[KenyaJ]

I don't know why these two always have to go so hard, but bless them for it. Closed-hand handholding would've been acceptable and sweet, but they always give us the extra touches that convey such true intimacy between these two characters. Their insane chemistry is pretty much the only reason why I'm still watching this show. I know that one day it's going to go off the air and I have real anxiety that I'm never going to ship another pairing as much as I ship them. Damn them.

[BkWurm1]

On 12/5/2018 at 12:19 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

WORD. Or the fact that his face LITERALLY lit up whenever he was in scenes with her in season one. At a time when he was supposedly still in )&%)(*&$ with Laurel. And the look of...self-loathing and pain after they returned from Russia, when Felicity asked Oliver why he boinked Isabel. That told me all I needed to know.

Nah, by my timeline he was done with Laurel and being in love with her by the time he came back from the island.  :D  

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Nah, by my timeline he was done with Laurel and being in love with her by the time he came back from the island.  :D  

Yeah, WE KNOW that, and his behavior indicated that, but the stupid writers had him saying different.😒

[Mary0360]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Nah, by my timeline he was done with Laurel and being in love with her by the time he came back from the island.  :D  

Honestly, when he was happy to see Tommy and Laurel together at his Christmas party that should and possibly was the dawning "maybe I'm just not in to her" moment.

[Mellowyellow]

hehe don't forget the smitten kitten first glance at Felicity.

I don't care that people dispute that. It's canon for me, there was a whole scene about it and he was soooooo smitten! 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, cwserialclub said:

Guys, whats yours favorite momment at elseworlds crossover? As for me it is

Oliver and Barry vs Merly and Thawne

Hands down Oliver's speech to Felicity, specifically for me the line "Love is too small a word." Even more so than "You'll always be the love of my life."  (Frankly, while i love the always a whole bunch, lol. Laurel kind of tainted the phrase for me when she very weirdly told Oliver he was the love her her life.)  

Most of the crossover didn't feel connected to the shows or the characters, but that moment rang crystal clear and true.  

The fight was fine but I was too busy going WTF over neral toxin making them fight the wrong enemies.  

[Chaser]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 1:39 PM, KenyaJ said:

I don't know why these two always have to go so hard, but bless them for it. Closed-hand handholding would've been acceptable and sweet, but they always give us the extra touches that convey such true intimacy between these two characters. Their insane chemistry is pretty much the only reason why I'm still watching this show. I know that one day it's going to go off the air and I have real anxiety that I'm never going to ship another pairing as much as I ship them. Damn them.

With the show winding down and all the speculation from Elseworlds and contracts, I was thinking a lot about this. 

I've shipped other couples before, some intensely, but Olicity actually got me on a forum talking about it and following fandom and just really became (with Arrow as a whole) an outlet for me when I was going through a tough time in my life personally. I don't think I can put into words how much it's meant to me and the knowledge that it will actually end...its really sad. LOL

Edited December 14, 2018 by Chaser

[Mellowyellow]

On 12/15/2018 at 5:47 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Hands down Oliver's speech to Felicity, specifically for me the line "Love is too small a word." Even more so than "You'll always be the love of my life."  (Frankly, while i love the always a whole bunch, lol. Laurel kind of tainted the phrase for me when she very weirdly told Oliver he was the love her her life.)  

Most of the crossover didn't feel connected to the shows or the characters, but that moment rang crystal clear and true.  

The fight was fine but I was too busy going WTF over neral toxin making them fight the wrong enemies.  

You know what's totally weird? After she said that line he said "Why are you telling me this?"

Lol what a bizarre scene to write!

***

SA delivered the "You will always be the love of my life" beautifully.

The "You will always be...you will always be the love of my life" pause and the way he looks at her was so squee worthy! I loved that he repeated "You will always be"

They managed to bring some freshness to that line for me because besides fanfic, my kid also regularly harps on about how Daddy is the love of his life so I hear those words A LOT! 

[Angel12d]

The way SA got all choked up when he said "Love is too small a word."  Loved that. (I wonder if it was a case of his "when Emily cries, I cry" thing he mentioned after 623?)

He really does excel in those quiet, emotional scenes sometimes. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Angel12d

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

The way SA got all choked up when he said "Love is too small a word."  Loved that. (I wonder if it was a case of his "when Emily cries, I cry" thing he mentioned after 623?)

He really does excel in those quiet, emotional scenes sometimes. 

Yeah, I bet it was.  They both were teary eyed and that extra level of emotion on his face and in his voice made me tear up as well.  It's swoon worthy on so many levels.

[Featherhat]

I think they both pull off those scenes that would otherwise come out cheesy or OTT with many couples including other pairings they've both been in and it's often the little things as shown above. 

[tv echo]

This podcast discussion is interesting and made me want to rewatch Arrow from the beginning - like Jen and Calli, I really tried to ship Lauriver in S1 but just couldn't, because that relationship was so cold and unappealing; instead, I found myself more and more interested in Felicity (athough I never thought the show would go there with Oliver)...

Quote

Where did Olicity start? Was it in season two, as some would have you believe (not even going to entertain the whole ‘out of nowhere in season 3′ nonsense… watch the damn show, folks)? Or were there some significant signs in season 1 as well? Join us as we talk about this and our own impressions as we watched those seasons for the first time. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by tv echo

[kickingnames]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Maybe they are mixing up slow burn with a stall.

I thought the s3 stalling was some of the best stalling ever. 

I'm gonna declare my love for you but I can't be with you cuz I'm gonna die alone so I'll stare at you with sad, pining puppy face until I die and also tell you I love you at the most inconvenient times.

That was an awesome way to stall.

Haha I loathe ship stalling, so season 3 was almost pure anguish for me. I remember swearing up and down that I would only put with that type of angst once, and if they ever broke Olicity up after they actually got together I would be absolutely done with this show. 😂😂

(In my defense, I did completely skip several episodes in Seasons 4b and 5a, but I don’t know how to truly quit Olicity. If they’re on, so am I.)

[Simba122504]

On 12/19/2018 at 10:15 AM, tv echo said:

This podcast discussion is interesting and made me want to rewatch Arrow from the beginning - like Jen and Calli, I really tried to ship Lauriver in S1 but just couldn't, because that relationship was so cold and unappealing; instead, I found myself more and more interested in Felicity (athough I never thought the show would go there with Oliver)...

I'm glad I decided to click on the thread because I would have never come across this podcast.

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Seriously! Looking it back it's so obvious they switched gears in S1 and committed to Olicity, most likely in December 2012 when they decided to kill Tommy (end the planned series long Love Triangle).  But, living through it, even after reading that article in April 2013 it still seemed like an impossibility. 

Oh the roller coaster of emotions S2 brought about, the S2A highs 201, 203, 207, 208 and, ending with 209's Slade's monologue. The sucker punch of 213, the long drought from 214-220 where Olicity almost weren't even allowed to interact (yes, done for the 223 shock ending!). 

I can remember when the promo or stills for 223 came out, the high of seeing it was a 24 hour roller coaster the high of OMG Slade kidnapped Felicity. Oh, no wait that's Laurel, not Felicity! Oh wait it's both, he's going to make Oliver choose just like in 209! 

I'd kind of forgotten about the rampant speculation that went on.  Most of the time the fandom guesses but this was one time that none of us saw the twist coming.  

But even before 223, I was riding on the high of 22.  The whole "You are not done fighting yet!" was incredible all on it's own but then that AND the "He took the wrong woman" and really all of their interaction and Felicity's support for him was epic.  It was real time seeing the ship upgrade to the next level.  

[tv echo]

Following up on the discussion here and in the Starling City Times thread - here's a few EP/SA comments on Olicity from the end of Season 1 to during Season 2 (2013-2014):

-- Marc Guggenheim: "I think there’s a lot of really great moments between Oliver and Felicity in the final four episodes of the season. That’s really what people will respond to. There’s a scene that they share in Episode 22 where just the chemistry is just so palpable. I was actually just on set telling Stephen that you really feel there’s a lot of chemistry and heat between the two of them. So, the shippers are only going to get louder post-Episode 22. ... [T]he final four episodes really are about this love triangle of Oliver, Laurel and Tommy. That’s the love triangle that we began the series with so we felt it appropriate to finish the season with a focus on it. That love triangle really starts to come to a boil with Wednesday’s episode, Episode 20. That kicks us off for the remaining three episodes of the season after that. The truth of the matter is that we sort of have to play that out first before we can play out Oliver and Felicity. But I love the fact that people are shipping them. It really is exciting. There’s nothing but love for Felicity among all the people involved in the show. So, stay tuned. But in the meantime, I gained a lot of satisfaction by teasing people.” (April 24, 2013 Huffington Post)

-- Greg Berlanti: "I think, uh, we really like the charm and the charisma that the two of them [Oliver and Felicity] have together. And there's lots to explore there before we'd walk down a path of ever having them become a couple just yet. But, um, we'll see what happens. You never know. We like to surprise the audience. So -" Larry King: "So you're not going to tip us on that?" GB: "Probably not." LK: "Do you know?" GB: "Yeah. I mean, I think - put it this way, when she started, she was just a guest star and she's been made a regular on the course of the series. That was all in the course of a year." (May 14, 2013 Larry King Show)

-- Stephen Amell: "Based on everything that happens in the [Season 1] finale, I think it's going to be difficult for Oliver and Laurel to just pick up and go on like nothing's happened. They had a wedge between them which was Sarah and all that Oliver did to her and now [everything] that's happened with Tommy and the aftermath of that, it's going to be extremely difficult for them to just pick up from where they were. In the comic books [Green Arrow and Black Canary] connect, but we're still dealing with 'Oliver and Laurel' and 'Oliver and Thea' and 'Oliver and Moira' and basically Oliver and everyone except Felicity and Diggle - they're not operating on a truthful level. So we're never really going to know what Oliver's relationship with Laurel can be until everything is on the table. And 'when' everything is on the table and 'if' that actually happens, I have no idea. ... We just talked about how much Laurel doesn't know about Oliver but there's a history there. With Felicity, there's not necessarily a history but in terms of women in his life at present, she knows him better than anybody. Which is not saying a great deal but...I don't know, I'm very touched that the internet has such a fascination and the fanbase has such a fascination with Felicity and Oliver and I think it really speaks to Emily Bett Richards because when she first played the character in episode 3, I remember [Oliver] meeting her and coming around the corner - and we didn't really rehearse full speed - so when I came around the corner and she did her whole [Felicity thing] I cracked a smile which may have been the first time my character had smiled in the entire show. So I give all the credit to her. The writers will do what the writers will do." (Jun. 20, 2013 ComicBookMovie)

-- On the possibility of an Olicity romance, SA: "You know something? There's always hope... You can sort of get an idea of what the writers and producers are thinking based upon how they cut together the show, because, uh, you know, they can pick - they can frame it toward what they're going towards. And there's definitely a shot in a cut of an episode, where just sort of watching how the scene's put together, where I definitely stare longingly at Felicity for about four seconds longer than I would've last year. And I definitely think it's a possibility. And I can tell you, on the Oliver-Laurel front, everything that's, uh - everything that happened at the end of last season, they are on a - they are on a bit of a break. They are on a bit of a break at the moment." (Aug. 30, 2013 Fan Expo Canada 2013)

-- Andrew Kreisberg: "Oliver isn't quite sure what he feels... He knows he feels something for her, but can't quite define it. He's surprised in [the midseason finale] when Dig [David Ramsey] points out to him that what [he's] feeling right now might actually be termed jealousy. For Felicity, she doesn't want to like Oliver in a way because she finds him unattainable, and in a way he is unattainable especially after... he said that it's probably better that [he's] not with somebody he cares about. While she really does like Barry, I think she probably throws even more into it because now he's somebody who is available." (Dec. 23, 2013 TV Guide)

-- AK: "One of the most important lessons that I’ve learned from working with Greg Berlanti, whose obviously had such amazing success in television, is to always have a really great plan, and then always know when to let the plan go. We are very cognizant of what makes people excited, and certainly seeing the fans respond to Emily last season helped cement her as a regular this season. We have a plan, but we also kind of go where the story takes us. So while it is a juggling act, we just do what we feel is right — and up until this point we’ve been lucky that most of the audience has agreed, and this is a show that we would love to watch. We really do make it for ourselves, and as long as we’re happy and excited, we feel like the fans will be happy and excited too." (Jan. 14, 2014 TVLine)

Edited January 6, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

- Greg Berlanti: "I think, uh, we really like the charm and the charisma that the two of them [Oliver and Felicity] have together. And there's lots to explore there before we'd walk down a path of ever having them become a couple just yet. But, um, we'll see what happens. You never know. We like to surprise the audience. So -" Larry King: "So you're not going to tip us on that?" GB: "Probably not." LK: "Do you know?" GB: "Yeah. I mean, I think - put it this way, when she started, she was just a guest star and she's been made a regular on the course of the series. That was all in the course of a year."

Again, now it seems SOOO blatant but back then, I saw "You never know" and read it as yeah, they have no plans to cross the line from teasing yet.  But now I see the part about well we did just make her a regular as hell yes we are going there.  

Edited January 6, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

Personally I was confused by the conflicting messages made by the Eps/SA and KC when I first got really into Arrow (between S2 and S3). I didn’t know at first if the show runners were just teasing to intrigue the audience and KC was telling the truth or what. I hadn’t known many shows that dumped their OTP. Reading the discussions here was really interesting. By the time I started posting I was like yep it’s Olicity. 

[lemotomato]

I think the question of "Will Olicity happen?" was a separate issue than "Will Olicity be endgame?" I'm pretty sure Olicity was inevitable as early as when they decided to make Felicity part of Team Arrow and one of Oliver's confidantes. But whether she was just going to be another relationship detour on the road to an eventual Oliver/Laurel reunion wasn't decided until TPTB plotted season 3, which, IIRC, they knew was going to end with Oliver and Felicity driving into the sunset together.

[BkWurm1]

Season one at first (and again after watching Smallville) I wasn't sure it would ever be more than teases, maybe some kisses that led no where or a one off thing.  I agree that on any other show I would have assumed inevitability of getting together even if endgame wasn't a sure thing but Smallville messed with my expectations for any comicbook show since they'd done all the normal set up (repeatedly) that on any other show WOULD lead to something and still answered (repeatedly) with a nope.  

So with Arrow while I saw all the chemistry, I just wasn't sure they too weren't going to also make her the work wife/best friend that pines her whole life from afar.  I so was glad as the season went on that they weren't dipping into the pining pond.  Her open appreciation of his body took away the lopsidedness of a crush.  She wasn't trying to hide that she thought he was hot, acknowledged it, but it really wasn't what their relationship was about.  

There was a line in one of the interviews about Felicity not wanting to want to be with Oliver because she saw him as unattainable so that awareness kept her feelings IMO from ever being pining.  She wasn't going there.  She was his friend and partner but wasn't waiting around for him to notice her or later when it was clear he'd noticed her, lol, wait for the off chance he'd get his head out of his butt and be willing to risk a relationship.  She has always had a strong sense of self worth that let Felicity never feel as a character that she only existed at Oliver's pleasure.   

[Chaser]

37 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I think the question of "Will Olicity happen?" was a separate issue than "Will Olicity be endgame?" I'm pretty sure Olicity was inevitable as early as when they decided to make Felicity part of Team Arrow and one of Oliver's confidantes. But whether she was just going to be another relationship detour on the road to an eventual Oliver/Laurel reunion wasn't decided until TPTB plotted season 3, which, IIRC, they knew was going to end with Oliver and Felicity driving into the sunset together.

I’m still a little surprised they made such an Olicity statement in S3. I honestly thought, even if they had decided Olicity would be it, they would still have some love triangle. I know that the show never wanted you to question who Oliver loved but when they changed course I figured the comic aspect would be teased more.  But they really did slam that door, both in press (with one exception) and in show. 

I appreaciated that. 

[Genki]

I watched the pilot and an episode or 2, and while I appreciated the workout scenes, I left fArrow or over a year until I was told how good Olicity was. Then I started bingeing until I caught up mid-way through S2. I didn't doubt that they were writing towards Olicity, but I was confused that they did not kill off/get rid of, Laurel. 

I've seen shows that swerve towards a different LI (for whatever reasons) but they always get rid the exisiting one, and frankly Laurel, who was a problematic character, with an actor that did not deliver, confused me by her continued existence.

Sarah, seemed to me to be an obvious roadblock to Olicity and a tick box for GA/BC cannon on/off relationship, so I wasn't so bothered by the swerve, but did miss the Olicity scenes. And I was so confused when they didn't write her in as reoccurring BC and get rid of Laurel permanently.

When they finally did kill off the character it was 2 seasons later and what I think was the most problematic time for the Ship, that loooong stretch between the season 4 break-up and the season 5 steps towards reconciliation. It was well over a season and I'm not sure what the benefit was besides slowing it down for the Cross-over wedding which unnecessary IMO, (I binged and Fast Forwarded my way through that painful Season 5 it was hard). I didn't understand why they were so hell bent on keeping Olicity away form each other especially after the final Olicity scene in season 4, their whole interaction was just puzzling. But for me the Susan thing, while gross, seemed a way to emphasis that Oliver was not going to hook-up with he new Black Canary, by having him in a firmly in relationship (though it was puzzling to the audience) during her introduction.

Frankly season 5 was the worst I saw of the ship stalling for Olicity.

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, Genki said:

I didn't understand why they were so hell bent on keeping Olicity away form each other especially after the final Olicity scene in season 4, their whole interaction was just puzzling.

Wasn't it that CW was negotiating a new affiliation deal and it was actually up in the air as to whether CW would exist at all? I at least remember that being a guess as to why they set up a reunion for them in 423 but dropping it last minute (and also for s5 until the end of that season), especially when SA said the last scene with Olicity was very different originally.

[Genki]

10 hours ago, way2interested said:

Wasn't it that CW was negotiating a new affiliation deal and it was actually up in the air as to whether CW would exist at all? I at least remember that being a guess as to why they set up a reunion for them in 423 but dropping it last minute (and also for s5 until the end of that season), especially when SA said the last scene with Olicity was very different originally.

I have no idea...I assumed that S5 Olicity reunion was delayed because of Cross over wedding.

[tv echo]

Also, here's some SA comments from 2015 (S3-S4)...

-- TVLine: "On the romantic front, do you think there is a place on Arrow for a great love? I mean, Smallville had Clark and Lois, the Spider-Man movies always involve Mary Jane or Gwen…. A female is always a part of the hero’s journey." Stephen Amell: "I think that both Laurel and Sara, for Oliver, were loves that were principally from the past, from before the boat. And any other sort of brief relationship that he’s had has been flawed. Felicity has clearly, over the course of two-plus seasons, grown into that love for him. It’s just a matter of whether or not they can ever find a spot where they can make it work on an ongoing basis." TVLine: "If/when Oliver resurfaces, do you think he and Felicity will be moved to be a bit more frank about their feelings for one another, a little bit more selfish, and just kind of go for it?" SA: "I don’t think that they could be any more frank than they’ve been, or certainly than Oliver has been. He’s told her that he’s loved her three times, actually, because clearly he meant it in the finale of Season 2, and she’s never said it back. But I think that they’re pretty much on the same page in terms of he loves her and I think that she reciprocates. I think. I don’t know, I can’t get inside her head. She certainly hasn’t said, 'I don’t love you,' so it’s about whether or not there’s a time for them." (Jan. 20, 2015 TVLine)

-- In response to fan asking SA when, in his opinion, did Oliver realize that he was in love with Felicity, DR first interjected, "When Diggle told him." Then SA replied: "I think probably a little earlier than that, actually.  I mean, I say to her - I'm weird this way, remembering stuff - but I say to her in episode 206? I say, because of, you know, the life I lead, what we do, I think it's better we not be together. I don't think he would have said that to her then if it wasn't a tacit admission of his feelings… if that makes sense." (May 15, 2015 City of Heroes)

-- SA: "But, you know, as late as - I don't know, the - probably the midway point of Season 2, it was like, 'do you think that Oliver and Felicity will ever get together?' And, I swear to God, the showrunner said this, 'Absolutely not. Never.' (Audience laughs) Which is why you never say never… Never say never." (Sep. 4, 2015 Dragon Con)

Edited January 7, 2019 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

20 hours ago, way2interested said:

Wasn't it that CW was negotiating a new affiliation deal and it was actually up in the air as to whether CW would exist at all? I at least remember that being a guess as to why they set up a reunion for them in 423 but dropping it last minute (and also for s5 until the end of that season), especially when SA said the last scene with Olicity was very different originally.

IIRC it was the opposite they delayed the S5 reunion because the Affiliate deals were signed. There were plans in place for a quick reunion IF CW was going off air because they would either have to end Arrow or try to entice viewers to follow to a new channel or platform.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

44 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

IIRC it was the opposite the delayed the S5 reunion because the Affiliate deals were sigbed. There were plans in place for a quick reunion IF CW was going off air because they would either have to end Arrow or try to entice views to follow to new channel or platform.

Ah, that's what I meant, that it was basically delayed because they realized they could keep going.

[Chaser]

I get a little ragey when I think about S5 Olicity. There was so much stupid involved in delaying their reunion. The breadcrumbs in the beginning, STUPID SUSAN, dumb Oliver, etc.

[kickingnames]

It’s funny — I remember skipping several episodes in Season 5a because Oliver and Felicity weren’t together and everything was boring. However, I had completely blocked any memory of why I thought it was boring — including Susan (as well as Bobby/Billy/Whatever Hands guy) — from my mind, until you guys mentioned her again. Apparently that’s how I coped. LOL

I also recently referred to S4 flashbacks as Poppy Island, then had to remember that (1) That was still Lian Yu, (2) Poppy was a person, and (3) I never did learn that person’s actual name (the closest I get is Illyria, which is the name of a totally different CW character whom I loathe for ruining one of my ships).

[Chaser]

Unless it involves one of my favs, I tend to forget a lot of what happens. S5 I remember for Helix, Chase and Bunker Sex. I don't remember what NTA did in S5. I only know what they did in S6 cause they pissed me off so much.