Future Dance Stars, or Abused Pawns?: The Girls

[Rhondinella]

Maybe a little of both.

[Chairperson Meow]

Hmmm....

Future therapy patients:

Maddie, possibly Brooke and Paige

Future career ladies:

Chloe, Nia, Kendall, Vivi

Future dancers:

Kalani, Asia, Nick, Lucas, the twins, Zack

Future up in the air:

Mackenzie, Peyton

[Lemons]

Chloe's not getting the training needed to become a professional.  She's a great 12 year old but she won't be a great 20 year old.  She won't be a strong enough adult dancer. 

[Absolom]

I don't think any of the girls are getting proper training to be pros at more than cruise ship level.  I'm not sure if most of them will qualify for that. 

[meatball77]

There are no dance stars (except for Misty Copeland).  That's why I think this whole thing is funny.  You've got this woman convincing these parents that their kids should give up their childhood and then they're going to be some famous dancer.  Dancers are in the background.  If you're lucky you can get on So You Think You Can Dance or Dancing With The Stars but besides that you end up as a back up dancer on tour or dancing in the chorus of a Broadway show or in the background of some commercial or TV special while the Actors and Singers are the stars.  Then after you've done your five or ten years dancing you can open a dance studio (or work for one) and be a trophy wife.

 

There are professional ballet and modern companies (neither of which pay well) but these girls aren't being trained to be able to dance in one of those.

[NextIteration]

Does anybody know if and where Chloe, since she is only at the studio for filming is taking classes?  Or whether or not she really did do the Joffrey Ballet School ballet intensive that she received the scholarship for?

[Lemons]

I don't think it matters that ballet and modern companies "don't pay well."  When you are doing something you love, it trumps making loads of money for some people. 

[leighroda]

Does anybody know if and where Chloe, since she is only at the studio for filming is taking classes? Or whether or not she really did do the Joffrey Ballet School ballet intensive that she received the scholarship for?

I don't know where she is now, but she did not do the Joffrey scholarship, it conflicted with filming for the show.

[lonestar]

 

I don't know where she is now, but she did not do the Joffrey scholarship, it conflicted with filming for the show.

This statement tells me her mom is a fame whore who puts immediate fame over proper training.

[Rhondinella]

lonestar--to be fair, as has been pointed out in other places, all the girls and their moms are tied in to 6 year contracts with Lifetime.  Unless Christi wants to breach contract (which I imagine would be fairly expensive) she didn't have a choice.  She has talked about it in several interviews, implying that if it weren't for the contract she would have left by now.

[Lemons]

lonestar--to be fair, as has been pointed out in other places, all the girls and their moms are tied in to 6 year contracts with Lifetime.  Unless Christi wants to breach contract (which I imagine would be fairly expensive) she didn't have a choice.  She has talked about it in several interviews, implying that if it weren't for the contract she would have left by now.

A fame whore mother can't be trusted to speak the truth in "several interviews."  I only watch the show.  I don't watch interviews or "follow" any of them.  I don't care what any of them say outside the show.  Don't believe everything you hear.  Christi is a pig who is in it because she loves the attention.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Lemons

[Absolom]

Opinions of Christi aside, that type contract is the industry standard. 

[Rhondinella]

I'm not absolving her from blame, or feeling sorry for her.  She signed the dang thing after all, now she has to live with the consequences.  But that is the situation.

[cali1981]

The whole contract situation is a mystery.  Let's say that one of the familes decided to break the contract based on a pattern of abusive behavior by Abby and, indirectly by the production company.  If what we see every week is "real", no state or judicial authority could conclude anything but the fact that there is an unacceptable level of child abuse taking place.  OTOH, if everything is staged, nobody would have any reason to break the contract or to reveal that the show is a complete fraud.  If and when Kelly's law suit gets to court, there could be a lot of dirty laundry made public.  If the criminal charges against Kelly are dropped (probably will be when the hand of the producers in that situation is exposed), I suspect that the production company and the network will make a very generous settlement offer to Kelly which includes very tight disclosure restrictions.

Edited June 1, 2014 by cali1981

[Diane Mars]

here it comes : http://www.tmz.com/2014/06/29/dance-moms-star-kelly-hyland-abby-lee-miller-lawsuit-paige-panic-attacks/ !

[Rhondinella]

Heh.  The last sentence is priceless:

 

We reached out to Miller about the lawsuit ... but all she did was brag about her new book.

 

 

 

[Kanena]

I feel so sorry to Maddie and Mackenzie. They have basically been turned over to Abby to "make into stars".

 

Who does that to their children? Why ruin your children's childhood so that they can be their dance teacher's favorites? It's really disgusting. I wish Lifetime would step in and tell Abby that what she is doing in completely inappropriate and that those children and their mother need to be kicked off the show and be put into therapy.

 

They have no life outside of the dance studio. Their mother dumped them there instead of "home schooling" them. All to please their dance teacher. It makes me very sad for those little girls. 

 

I think it's great that the other mother's have insisted that the kids not get swept up in the show. They still go to school, spend time with their families, and do other things outside of dance. Abby should be encouraging them to be healthy human beings, not trying to manipulate them into being her little worker bees.

[Lemons]

The other mothers are not much better.  All stage mothers, just varying degrees.   Chloe's mother is next in line for nasty stage mother.  Green with jealousy that Maddy did that music video.  As she claims, "any of the girls would be amazing in that video."  Not true.  Chloe is a stiff dancer with limited ability. 

 

The truth is that Maddy loves what she's doing.  She might be a little too intense for her age, but she's not the only child who is driven in an activity.  I'm not sure the younger sister loves it as much, but she doesn't hate it. 

 

Also, there are worse childhoods than theirs.  Kids who are neglected, ignored, stuck in front of a TV for hours and hours.  Left alone. 

[Kanena]

I just wonder why Abby has gone after Chloe, while she seems to leave Kendal and Mia alone.

 

In the beginning of season 4 she was pushing hard to gain control over Chloe, as she has over Maddie and Mackenzie. Lucky for Chloe her Mom said no and didn't pull Chloe out of school.

 

Christy wonders why Chloe doesn't get the same opportunities, but is protective of her kid. I'm glad she didn't turn Chloe over to Abby, even if it means Chloe doesn't get to go be in a music video. 

[spanana]

I have issues with all the mothers honestly.  None of them win any prizes.  But at least Chloe is still in school and seems to have interests/friends outside of dance.  Even if Christi is doing a crappy job in many areas, I'll at least give her credit for not pulling Chloe out of regular school.

 

It's not that I have anything against homeschooling when done properly, but there is no reason that Maddie and Mack need to not be in a regular program.  Especially Mack.  It's one thing if Maddie wants to spend her whole life in the dance studio and going on auditions, but Mack was essentially pulled out of school because it was easier for Melissa to have both girls in the same place.  Does anybody honestly think Mack is going to become a professional dancer?  Is she going to become a pop star?  No.  No matter what Abby claims about Mack's iTunes numbers, it's all bull.  MackZ is not a thing.  Let the kid have a childhood.

[LexiconDevilOne]

I want to know where these kids fathers are, and why they don't do more to get their kids away from this mess?...

[Lemons]

There are many kids who are home schooled because of a talent or interest in a specific field.  There are also a lot of kids who are home schooled because of parents obsession with religion.  Everyone does not have the same thinking when it comes to what's best for their children. 

 

ispansy, there's nothing wrong with being "stuck" in a dance studio for hours.  Many children do it.  I know many professional dancers who left school early every day, spent the remaining hours at ballet school.  They missed the usual social life of the more typical child, but wouldn't have had it any other way. 

[wanderwoman]

I want to know where these kids fathers are, and why they don't do more to get their kids away from this mess?...

The show is called Dance Moms, not Dance Dads. I assume the dad's are working and parenting the other kids in the family. If I'm not mistaken, both parents would have to sign off on their kid being on this show. Otherwise, the dads could pull the kids out without contractual breech. With the exception of Papa Hyland, we've seen all the dad's and MR. ZEIGLER was the only one who voiced a negative reaction to Abby.

Somewhere, I read that Pastor Dawn was actually Paige and Brook's aunt on their dad's side.

[LexiconDevilOne]

It was also not suppose to be all about Abby and her Maddie obsession either, but that's the show I've been watching. Also, when did you see the other fathers (excluding Kurt Zeigler?), because I've never seen them on the show, or reunions. 

Edited August 18, 2014 by OnceSane
Tone

[OnceSane]

Please don't belittle your fellow posters or their opinions.

[wanderwoman]

It was also not suppose to be all about Abby and her Maddie obsession either, but that's the show I've been watching. Also, when did you see the other fathers (excluding Kurt Zeigler?), because I've never seen them on the show, or reunions.

Season 1. Mack and Maddy's dad went to one of the comps because Melissa was boinking her boyfriend. Nia's dad was in the episode with Holly and her book release as well as the chat episode. Chloe's dad can be scene in the episode where Cathy stole the show at the recital. Edited August 20, 2014 by wanderwoman

[JerseyGirl]

Interview with Chloe, she addresses her schedule, among other things:

 

Chloe’s day starts at 6:30am, when she gets up, gets ready and goes to school from 7:30am until 2:30pm. 2:30pm until 4pm she travels to the dance studio and grabs something to eat before filming begins at 4. Dancing and filming goes on until 6:30pm, then she tries to fit in homework before dancing and filming resumes at 8pm until 10pm. After that it’s just a case of getting home, getting a shower and finishing homework before finally getting to bed at around 11-11:30!

 

 

http://joshgill.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/an-interview-with-chloe-lukasiak/

[Absolom]

That sounds like too much work and not enough rest for someone her age.

[NextIteration]

Sounds a lot like my kids's middle and high school schedule, between school, assisting/demonstrating, dance classes, part-time jobs and volunteering.

 

From the Spoilers thread @missbonnie:

 

There are two different videos, I went back and looked. They are both about Jill and Kendall and as far as I'm concerned the fact that that idiot Christie would even do that at a meet and greet for laughs makes her guilty of some of the very things that she was always whining about on DM. Sorry, in my book she's a fame whoring bitch and I don't see that opinion changing ever. Like I said though, I was saddened to see Chloe obviously enjoying herself as well. I thought that she was much better than that.

 

I only saw one of the videos, and nothing about it struck me as mean or spiteful.  They were asked by their fans to imitate Jill and Kendall and I thought they captured a lot of what we see that goes on between Jill and Kendall on competition days - and to be honest, that sort of stress can happen for any mother and daughter at a competition - there are lots of girls that would rather get ready with someone else's mom because there is less tension involved.  It reaches it's peak right around these girls ages (12) and then they just start getting ready on their own or help each other and kick the moms out of the dressing room for the most part. There are exceptions if a lot of quick changes come into play with elaborate hair and makeup changes along with the costumes.

 

Of course since this is Dance Moms, they'll never get kicked out of the dressing room, that's where all the drama is.

 

eta: Clip from the show of an example of mom/child drama/tension.

Edited October 23, 2014 by NextIteration

[taragel]

One thing that I thought was funny is that on one of the Abby's Studio Rescue shows, there was a family owned dance studio with a girl who was maybe 15 or 16 that was their star pupil and they didn't want to let her go somewhere (Arizona maybe? cross-country?) to do actual training at some prestigious ballet academy. Maddie and the other girls are not that much younger than this one--if they're so amazing, why aren't they being accepted into similar training programs? Surely, Abby doesn't think her dance studio is the same type of environment. If she REALLY wanted what was best for Maddie, I'd think she'd be pushing Melissa to get her in one of those joints. 

[NextIteration]

Maddie would definitely benefit from attending summer ballet intensives, though it's unlikely she'd get in with a scholarship - or get into most of the top ones.  There are many on the next level that are very good though.  I'm just not sure that Melissa/Maddie/Abby could bear her not being the big fish.  I was disappointed to hear that Chloe did not use her Joffrey School scholarship from a couple years ago.

[realdancemom]

Sounds a lot like my kids's middle and high school schedule, between school, assisting/demonstrating, dance classes, part-time jobs and volunteering.

 

From the Spoilers thread @missbonnie:

 

I only saw one of the videos, and nothing about it struck me as mean or spiteful.  They were asked by their fans to imitate Jill and Kendall and I thought they captured a lot of what we see that goes on between Jill and Kendall on competition days - and to be honest, that sort of stress can happen for any mother and daughter at a competition - there are lots of girls that would rather get ready with someone else's mom because there is less tension involved.  It reaches it's peak right around these girls ages (12) and then they just start getting ready on their own or help each other and kick the moms out of the dressing room for the most part. There are exceptions if a lot of quick changes come into play with elaborate hair and makeup changes along with the costumes.

 

Of course since this is Dance Moms, they'll never get kicked out of the dressing room, that's where all the drama is.

 

eta: Clip from the show of an example of mom/child drama/tension.

I agree with you.  I don't think they were being mean either.  Chloe and Christy even mentioned that none of the girls want their moms to do their hair.  I can relate.  It was always a struggle to get my DDs ready for competition and I hated doing their hair.  They didn't want me to do their hair either.  I was happy when they could get ready for competitions or performances themselves. 

[DoctorWhovian]

There are no dance stars (except for Misty Copeland).  That's why I think this whole thing is funny.  You've got this woman convincing these parents that their kids should give up their childhood and then they're going to be some famous dancer.  Dancers are in the background.  If you're lucky you can get on So You Think You Can Dance or Dancing With The Stars but besides that you end up as a back up dancer on tour or dancing in the chorus of a Broadway show or in the background of some commercial or TV special while the Actors and Singers are the stars.  Then after you've done your five or ten years dancing you can open a dance studio (or work for one) and be a trophy wife.

 

There are professional ballet and modern companies (neither of which pay well) but these girls aren't being trained to be able to dance in one of those.

 

Exactly! Abby brags about having dancers on Broadway. She does realize that working as a dancer on Broadway isn't exactly a high paying job? I have a relative who has done quite a bit of professional theater, to the point that he would be called for a certain part he played without even auditioning (no touring company, but these are big theaters in big cities, not local community theater). It was not his job, it was a side thing he did while working a real job. With luck, dance could lead to something for them, maybe going to college and being on the dance team (then graduate and work in something more substantial), or a short stint in a company (I don't think female dancers last long age wise?). Maybe they become dance teachers. Am I wrong here?

 

Although I would add that, as a non-dancer, I've heard of Mikhail Baryshnikov (totally looked up that spelling)

[luna70]

Yes, ABBY CONSTANTLY BRAGS about her BROADWAY dancers.. but. WHAT KIND OF LIFE do these people have?? For those who do not live near NYC.. BROADWAY SHOWS run for the most part (cause there are ALWAYS exceptions!) from what I remember-TUESDAY -SUNDAY with MONDAY off.. BUT.. you have 2 shows on WEDNESDAY, SATURDAY ....and there are not  many shows that are all about DANCING!! So, her 'BROADWAY STUDENTS'? Probably, for the most part, are SUPPORT, BACKGROUND dancers.. I have been on her site.. and she/her mother have had the studio for DECADES so the list is NOT that impressive. Cathy from CANDY APPLES has some one broadway too.

 

AND.. Abby has them dancing LYRICAL.. JAZZ, TAP.. none of them  are BALLET dancers (and if they were, they should be off at a school for ballet in their preteens, early teens..) SO, what is a big career for a dancer? Brooke wanted to be a dancer for Cirque de Soliel  but, MADDIE is not into acro.. She has that CHEESY smile.. and does almost the SAME dance all the time.. Chloe and NIA have said they want to become doctors, BUT also said DOCTORS and other professions.. There JUST IS NOT  MUCH work not to  mention HIGH PAYING work for dancers in NYC, nor CA.. LAS VEGAS is about the only place for MADDIE, and her sister to go.. and it is not to become a star, but a line dancer.. BUT, ABBY, and THEIR MOTHER.. have it fed into MADDIE'S LIL SWOLLEN HEAD sooo many times that she is going to be a BIG BIG star.. that I and others just see her being knocked down, and yes, a possible breakdown if she does not have the proper support, and with MELISSA, she does not! (besides, I doubt, what little money she makes on these projects is going right out the window.. her bio father does not like this dance crap and how much is her step father going to pay for?).. Honestly, I do not see ANY OF THEM making it big.. OH, and McKENZIE.. one hit wonder with songs..

 

I CANNOT remember the last big name dancer I have heard of.. other then MIKE.. CAN'T spell his name either/11

[Law Mom]

Luna, I think I hear you saying that dance is a bad career choice because it doesn't offer much money or fame, but most professional dancers don't choose it for those reasons. They choose a dance career because they love to dance. No, there aren't a lot of dancers who are household names but that doesn't matter to them. It beats having an office job!

[kathe5133]

I worked at a dance school and I cannot watch this show! It is so unrealistic. Abby is not now, nor has she ever been a dancer. I'm sorry, but she was an extremely overweight kid who's mother owned a dancing school. I've known lots of dance teachers who are not thin slips of girls. But when they moved, they moved with grace. Abby has no grace. She has not taught those girls their technique. That is learned from watching as well as verbal corrections. No one could learn to move gracefully watching that behemoth lumber across a dance floor. She is a joke and my only consolation is that she is not in on the joke. I'm embarrassed for her. I look forward to the day that she is nothing more than a pop culture reference.

[NextIteration]

@kathe5133, I don't disagree with you, but much of what you are saying is also leveled at Mia Michaels whom I know is also controversial but is one of my daughter's favorite master class teachers.  She was also a "big girl" that decided as a child of parents that owned a dance studio that she preferred choreographing over dancing, she does move a lot more than Abby Lee, but depends heavily on demonstrators.  

[OnceSane]

Mia Michaels can dance, though. Gracefully and with power. Can Abby say the same?

[kathe5133]

My point exactly. It's not just Abby's size. She doesn't have a dancer's stance. There is no reason someone who is large size cannot teach or even dance, and teach and dance beautifully! Abby inherited a dance school, did all she could with hired staff and then found a way to gain "15 minutes". She is doing dance and dance teachers a great disservice by portraying the "dancing school world" as she does. No one who talks to clients like she does would have any business! Fame whore! She is a joke and she is to stupid to know that she is a joke!

[sgomes]

The Raising Asia forum is dead,  but she Asia has a new Christmas single.  I like this kid, but the single is HORRID x infinity.  I don't know how fake all of the drama was on the show about her manager Billy.  She should have kept him because at least she seemed to know to market her as a kid. This single "Christmas Time" sounds like someone auto tuned the Chipmunks.     https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/christmas-time-single/id945427627

[DoctorWhovian]

The Raising Asia forum is dead,  but she Asia has a new Christmas single.  I like this kid, but the single is HORRID x infinity.  I don't know how fake all of the drama was on the show about her manager Billy.  She should have kept him because at least she seemed to know to market her as a kid. This single "Christmas Time" sounds like someone auto tuned the Chipmunks.     https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/christmas-time-single/id945427627

 

Omg the cover... it's one of those creepy overly touched up pageant style photos that look nothing like the child. It's borderline cgi.

[sgomes]

Mackenzie, "Mack Z" has out her own Christmas song and video.  "Christmas All Year Long."  For age appropriateness  and Mack's ability to lip sync I rate this ahead of Asia's.  That brings it up to a D-.  I could see Mack being pick up by Nick or Disney because she has the look, and at times on Dance Moms, I've found her pretty funny when she was unguarded and just being herself.   Musically speaking, she Brooke and Asia should stick to dancing.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js2gI4fJL9M

[kathe5133]

Whoever invented auto tune should really be shot!

[EVS]

Whoever invented auto tune should really be shot!

Or locked up and forced to listen to the ALDC kids recordings over and over nonstop for the rest of his/her life.

[WelcomeStranger]

Chloe hasn't been my favorite dancer on Dance Moms for a few seasons, because her dancing had become labored and she looked so unhappy. It was clear her passion was gone and she wasn't putting in the work anymore. Not that I blamed her, but ugh--it didn't make for very good TV.

 

But here Chloe is back, launching this YouTube "project." What's best  is that it actually centers on DANCE, not auto-tuned singing or other such ephemeral pop silliness. Her dancing looks light and free--and refreshing after years of Abby's (and Gianna's) tiresome formulaic choreography. Yay for her! :o)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ONEVfRzB9U&feature=youtu.be&a=&app=desktop

Edited January 10, 2015 by WelcomeStranger

[Bossca]

Just foudn this video of Chloe performing. Apparently she choreographed it herself. I actually think it's a lot better than what Abby was giving her,and I feel like you could see her enjoying it too. 

 

[kathe5133]

Yeah she can turn, she can kick, and she can roll around the floor contorting her body. Good routine if the kid was dancing at a dance recital. Not even close to being professional dancer quality. This is the real tragedy of "Dance Moms". Mediocre talents are celebrated.

[Darknight]

Yeah she can turn, she can kick, and she can roll around the floor contorting her body. Good routine if the kid was dancing at a dance recital. Not even close to being professional dancer quality. This is the real tragedy of "Dance Moms". Mediocre talents are celebrated.

I agree. Especially since Chloe is 13 and has been dancing for umpteen number of years. She's really behind in her dance training. I can't see her doing anything with dance as long as her pimp continues to pimp her out

[Rhondinella]

At what age do they usually start going on pointe for ballet?  Isn't it about 14?  Of course, I'm not sure these girls get any actual ballet training.

[NextIteration]

@Rohdinella - you've asked the most perplexing question in the dance world. ;)  Anywhere from 10-14, depending on the child, where they are in their physical development and where they are in their training.  Most will say that the preponderance of children are not capable technically to go en pointe at 10, so that is rare from a technique perspective. The other consideration comes down to the physical development in their feet, the level of ossification in their bones. Here is the infamous Lugo essay on the subject. 

 

In general, my experience is that many girls begin pre-pointe work around 11 and are up en pointe by 13, where the instructors are educated and mindful of all the criteria that should be followed.  You will find that in the wild, there are a lot of stupid studios that start forcing children en pointe at 8 and 9.

Edited January 13, 2015 by NextIteration