Underground - General Discussion

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Loved how Noah immediately knew what happened.

Asked no questions, grabbed Rosalee's had and they ran.

Now that's Ride or Die, I'm shipping them HARD.

[BusyOctober]

I do like this show and most of the characters. I like the use of modern music. I can even get past most of the egregious historical errors and anachronistic speech and actions.  However I can't get past my dislike of Elizabeth.  Don't like her acting or her character (maybe it's because she reminds of Jennifer Garner and I can't stand her).  The idea that society women in the 1850's would watch or participate in a dance where ladies lifted their skirts is ridiculous.  And when Elizabeth jumped on the piano to do a distracting sultry Cancan...I just can't-can't.  She & her husband would never be invited to any "decent" person's home again. She would be branded as a loose woman.  Her husband would be lose his respectability and his law practice, not to mention his role as a campaign manager. 

 

As for the rest of the cast, I really enjoy all the stories and relationships. 

I dislike the plantation mistress, but we are supposed to hate her. I'm guessing when she goes into labor, it will be a difficult delivery and she'll need Ernestine's midwifery expertise.  

 

I hope the overseer is really dead.  It would be so cliché to have him pop up as "wounded and out for vengeance" next week. 

 

Of course I want Noah & Rosalie to make it North, but I wanted the rest of the group to get away too! 

[miracole]

Elizabeth jumping up on the piano was a bit much but everything else on this show is so good I didn't even mind that. This is a spy/heist/caper show with a historical backdrop. A distraction was needed at the moment so she provided one. It was a little ridiculous but  I'll go with it. 

 

Elizabeth's look reminds me a lot of Rachel McAdams' look in Sherlock Holmes.

 

Nathan!  I haven't seen you in so long(I barely watched season 4 of one Tree Hill) There was a mini Naley reunion in my mind after seeing BJL pop up on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D this week.

Edited March 25, 2016 by miracole

[Dowel Jones]

And when Elizabeth jumped on the piano to do a distracting sultry Cancan...I just can't-can't.

 

Not to mention the soundboard of a piano is no place to plant yourself and dance around.  They are neither sturdy nor cheap.

 

Minor historical nitpick:  The carpenter in me winced a bit when they were unloading 2x6 wood from the wagon, and modern day boards were shown (1 1/2 x 5 1/2), instead of a full dimension 2x6 as you would find back then.  Having said that, although they are sturdy, they aren't cheap, either.

[GirlvsTV]

Elizabeth jumping up on the piano was a bit much but everything else on this show is so good I didn't even mind that. This is a spy/heist/caper show with a historical backdrop. A distraction was needed at the moment so she provided one. It was a little ridiculous but  I'll go with it.

I feel like the show has done really good job reflecting the period appropriate attitudes and customs of the time period, especially as it pertains to the institution of slavery, so the absolute out-of-place wrongness of the can-can dancing AT A GOVERNOR'S BALL coupled with BOOBS was so jarring to me I couldn't pay attention to what was happening on the screen. I mean, if they were that hard up to have some 19th century ladies lift their skirts up why not have a party set at a high-class brothel or something?

Also, I love including modern music in the show but I didn't get the song chosen for the party scene at all. These kinds of social functions would have been the exact opposite of wild. That's not to say people didn't have wild times, just that they wouldn't have been having them, as depicted, at a Governor's Ball.

[GodsBeloved]

Well yall called it re: the overseer trying to rape Rosalee. I don't think anyone expected her to kill him though.

 

I though Noah would do the killing but I liked the twist.

 

I felt so horrible for Rosalee. I thought well she can't fight back and I'm oh so glad she did. Her frantic we gotta run now broke my hear all over again.

 

I was also flabbergasted that Ernestine used TR to cover for the missing seal. That was brilliant.

 

This show keeps blowing me away.

Loved how Noah immediately knew what happened.

Asked no questions, grabbed Rosalee's had and they ran.

Now that's Ride or Die, I'm shipping them HARD.

Yes oh yes!

Edited March 25, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[Raja]

Fooled me, too. I came here, mid-watch, to note that it was refreshing to see Meloni in a sympathetic, gentle role. Well, ha, I guess they could have gotten anyone for that. (Hello, Buffy's least remarkable boyfriend.)

This show is going to have some tremendous scope and ambition if we're sending some of our main characters out on the freedom trek and we're also going to keep up with the people back at the plantation. It looks like the show might be focusing more on gearing up and betrayal than the Underground.

A lot of scenes were painful to watch, compounded by not having much realistic expectation that any of the monsters are going to get justice served up to them on a platter. I'm ready for the plantation wife and her whip-crazy son to die right now, not impoverished by the Civil War six to eight years hence.

Noah's trial run reminded me of Steve McQueen as Captain Hilts doing the same to map out the areas around the POW camp in The Great Escape

[Mozelle]

Another great episode tonight.

 

I hope that Rosalee killed the overseer before he had the chance to rape her. I am glad she remained strong throughout that ordeal and dealt with him. Even though she was vulnerable around him, I actually thought she could whip his behind, when they were in the yard together. He was so sloppy drunk, and he came across as weak. I am glad she stayed strong and fought him.

 

I am very interested in seeing what happens now that her and Noah are on the run. That definitely puts a wrench in the plan. I could see some of the other slaves not taking the news of Noah/Rosalee running without them well. I wonder if/when the other slaves will meet up with them at some point or if Noah/Rosalee will come back and get them. 

 

I'm especially curious about this part because Cato has already put in Zeke's head that Noah didn't want Zeke out of the box; that Cato was the one who had to do the negotiating there. He's trying to play Zeke against Noah. That coupled with his insistence that Noah teach him the song just makes me wish that Noah hadn't agreed to include Cato in on anything. His power tripping is dangerous.

[Happytobehere]

I'm especially curious about this part because Cato has already put in Zeke's head that Noah didn't want Zeke out of the box; that Cato was the one who had to do the negotiating there. He's trying to play Zeke against Noah. That coupled with his insistence that Noah teach him the song just makes me wish that Noah hadn't agreed to include Cato in on anything. His power tripping is dangerous.

Every time I see Cato, I can't get KRS-One out of my head, "The house nigger will sell you up the river."

The thing I like best about this show is it shows how smart and in their feet the slaves had to be to survive, and how contrary to the delicate Soutjern Belle myth, we see the true nature of the mistresses of the house, just like in 12 Years A Slave.

[wanderingstar]

Well, that escalated quickly.

 

Didn't expect a) Rosalee to kill the overseer* and b) Rosalee and Noah to run.

 

I liked this episode a lot. But now I wonder what's going to happen to the would-be runaways' plan.

 

 

*assuming she did kill him

[LoveIsJoy]

I applaud my fellow posters for having much more attuned senses than I, because half of the time I can barely understand the dialogue/accents or follow the scenes because they're so darkly lit.  The last scene in particular, I had no idea what was happening after Rosalee and Noah decided to run.  There were a few brief glimpses of people in the dark, someone making a basket of food, somebody peering out from a wagon (?), and I think someone being choked.  My husband and I were looking at each other, like "huh?"

 

Oh, and earlier in the episode, Rosalee is attempting to return the seal and wax, and as she opens the door she is surprised by the master in the office.  He asks her what she wants/needs and then the scene ends.  But we're never told or shown what happened! (which seems kind of important to me given the tension build-up). A few scenes later, she's showing her mother the melted wax in a pot (I think that's what I saw anyway) but the audience is deprived of any pay-off scene of seeing what happens in the office and then her frantically deciding where to discard the wax.

 

I don't know, I really want to like and support this show but it's getting to be a chore for me to keep rewinding scenes.  I've loved Jurnee Smollett since Eve's Bayou (she and Debi Morgan gave Oscar-worthy performances IMO) so I'll keep watching hoping it gets clearer.   The cast is strong--I just wish the writing, editing, and set direction/lighting were better.  I'll have to check the forums after each episode to get clarity on what I just watched. lol

[LoveIsJoy]

Thanks for that explanation. I'll have to rewatch that scene (again) because the sugar cane sticks went right past me. I can never clearly see what's happening. And I'll definitely turn on closed captioning from now on.

[Abra]

Dear god, Jurnee Smollett-Bell is a shockingly bad actress. A plank of wood has more nuance than she does. I feel bad for Aldis Hodge; before this show I would have said he's so hot he'd have chemistry with a plank of wood, but now I'd obviously stand corrected. I can't ship Noah and Rosalee when poor Aldis has to struggle to do all the work. /end rant

 

I'd like to think that Zeke is too smart to buy into Cato's bullshit, but only time will tell.

 

I'm worried for Henry, and have been since the beginning. I feel like the show is setting us up to like him and his optimism just to kill him for maximum effect at some point.

 

I like Elizabeth, but I really wish the show hadn't given her the typical Motivational Lady Drama™ of hating that it's All Her Fault She Can't Have a Baby. I'm looking forward to when she and John finally meet up with Noah, et al.

 

I'm fine with the modern music choices overall, but the song for the Governer's Ball was hideous. As was the amateurish camera-work. Let's hope it was the typical reduction in quality you tend to see after the first couple of episodes of a new series that will disappear as we get closer to the finale.

[red12]

So, am I the only one who saw Paula Deen in Ol' Lady Bareback? Ok, then <backs out of the room>

[netlyon2]

^^^ Aw, man, not anymore. Thanks a lot! LOL and yuck

[MrsRafaelBarba]

RUN!!

[wanderingstar]

What an episode! The shocks just kept coming! Cato becoming overseer. Cato killing those 2 white men and freeing his fellow slaves. I figured Josey (Jussie Smollet's character) and his partner wouldn't make it. But it was still shocking to see his friend get shot by the marshall. That whole series of scenes was so harrowing.

[ridethemaverick]

OMG. I need to sleep on it and watch again. So much happened. What a show!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Still side eyeing Antebellum Don Lemon, but he was the MVP tonight.

Leaky canteen, kicking out the bottom of buckets.

When he torched the crops and yelled RUN!

YES!!!!!

I teared up when Pearly Mae got captured!

[netlyon2]

Wow.  I think I stopped breathing several times during this episode.  I'll also need time to process.

 

Here's a question, though:  Which was Cato's most hardcore move?

a.  running away twice before and burning his own face to remove the brands

b.  setting that whole place on fire to hide their escape (with the man's own gin, too)

c.  leaving Rosalee's brother (Sam?) behind because he confessed the plan to his mama (stone cold, man)

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Wow.  I think I stopped breathing several times during this episode.  I'll also need time to process.

 

Here's a question, though:  Which was Cato's most hardcore move?

a.  running away twice before and burning his own face to remove the brands

b.  setting that whole place on fire to hide their escape (with the man's own gin, too)

c.  leaving Rosalee's brother (Sam?) behind because he confessed the plan to his mama (stone cold, man)

All of the above.

[Jx223]

I was glad to see Cato be very helpful to his fellow slaves tonight. They still may have to watch him with one eye, though.

 

I liked that he set the plantation grounds on fire. Make the slave owner and some of the other overseers have to work for a change. I also liked how Ernestine was sitting there watching and not helping them lift any buckets to put that fire out, lol. 

 

I wish Pearly Mae could have escaped with her family, but I am glad that her little girl and husband were able to run. I was glad that August didn't kill her character and I hope she will eventually reunite with her family. 

 

Enjoyed seeing Rosalee and Noah grow closer and their kiss. :)

 

Wow.  I think I stopped breathing several times during this episode.  I'll also need time to process.

 

Here's a question, though:  Which was Cato's most hardcore move?

a.  running away twice before and burning his own face to remove the brands

b.  setting that whole place on fire to hide their escape (with the man's own gin, too)

c.  leaving Rosalee's brother (Sam?) behind because he confessed the plan to his mama (stone cold, man)

 

I vote setting the plantation grounds on fire. I thought that was a good idea on his part. No one expected that and it was a big distraction that made it easier for the slaves to escape. It's good that the slave master and the other overseers will be occupied by that and are less likely to go after the runaways right away. I could see it hurting the slave master financially as well.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Jx223

[Soup333]

Ain't gone be no 6,000 pounds of cotton picked tomorrow, that's for sure.

[C76]

Wow.  I think I stopped breathing several times during this episode.  I'll also need time to process.

 

Here's a question, though:  Which was Cato's most hardcore move?

a.  running away twice before and burning his own face to remove the brands

b.  setting that whole place on fire to hide their escape (with the man's own gin, too)

c.  leaving Rosalee's brother (Sam?) behind because he confessed the plan to his mama (stone cold, man)

Regarding "c", what did Cato have to do with Sam staying? I thought he did that of his own volition. (For reasons that I assume will be revealed later.)

[MsFlibbles]

I think leaving Sam behind probably saves too much harm from coming to Ernestine and Henry. One thing for Rosalee to run. But, two of Ernestine's kids that's another story.

Too bad about Pearly Mae. Not sure how the rest will survive without someone who can read and write. And the slave hunter can't read either.

[Soup333]

Too bad about Pearly Mae. Not sure how the rest will survive without someone who can read and write. And the slave hunter can't read either.

 

Rosalee can't read? I assumed she'd be able to since she was raised differently than the field hands. I wouldn't be surprised at all if her mother had secretly taught her how to read. 

 

It's too bad they have Detective Stabler on their asses. Would have been easier to get away if they didn't.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Soup333

[drivethroo]

 

I skipped most of Elizabeth and Tom Mason's scenes. Just too disturbing and I didn't understand the point? Whatever.

 

The point was to show why John (Tom is his brother) was now trying to free slaves.  When he first got out of college he was distributing slaves left and right as part of settling estates.  They weren't people to him, just property like pieces of furniture.  When he was telling the story of selling Josey's wife Tempie off, he didn't even get the circumstances right.  It really didn't matter because slaves were pieces of equipment, not real people with feelings and families.

 

I don't know if John was actually the one who sold Tempie off; I'm thinking he didn't and was just telling a story to Josey about when he DID sell off slaves to settle estates.

 

The selling off of slaves like equipment or furniture bothered John & that's why he's an abolitionist today.

 

Elizabeth came to the same realization a couple of episodes ago when she was at Tom & Suzanna's party and saw the little slave boy fanning them, and no one else noticed his presence.  They didn't care; he was nothing more than a ceiling fan or a HVAC unit.  Nobody notices ceiling fans or HVAC units and nobody noticed this little slave boy fanning them either.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I'm still kinda puzzled by August.

There's shades of grey there.

Anyone else notice the dynamic between him, the son and his farmhand?

I call him that because, he's not treated like a slave.

That child addressed him as Sir and obeys him w/o question.

Edited March 31, 2016 by MrsRafaelBarba

[mustbeme]

Ok this is driving me nuts.

 

Tom - evil slave owner

T.R.-  white son    Thomas R(middle name)

James -  black son with slave

 

 

I don't think there are 3 Thomas'.    I checked IMDB  and it lists James as his name,  unless there are two small young black slaves.

[netlyon2]

^^^^ Ah, okay.  Well, that makes it slightly less creepy.  I thought it would be a bit much to have Tom/Ernestine's son be a slave named after his father.  Poor kid's going to have enough issues as it is.

[C76]

Ok this is driving me nuts.

 

Tom - evil slave owner

T.R.-  white son    Thomas R(middle name)

James -  black son with slave

 

 

I don't think there are 3 Thomas'.   I checked IMDB  and it lists James as his name,  unless there are two small young black slaves.

 

 

Can you imagine? Mrs. Macon would have a fit!

 

drivethroo, thank you for your interpretation of Elizabeth and John's storyline. It coincides with what I was thinking. Writing resources always mention that everything must have a purpose. The work on this show shows me that no scenes or words are wasted. 

 

Edited because I re-read this:

 

I don't know if John was actually the one who sold Tempie off; I'm thinking he didn't and was just telling a story to Josey about when he DID sell off slaves to settle estates.

 

 

 

If John was in charge of selling Tempie, then technically IMO, yes. He sold her. John may not have been her master, but I understand why whether he represented an estate or not was irrelevant to Josey.

Edited March 31, 2016 by C76

[drivethroo]

 

If John was in charge of selling Tempie, then technically IMO, yes. He sold her. John may not have been her master, but I understand why whether he represented an estate or not was irrelevant to Josey.

 

I don't think he actually sold/distributed Tempie.  Josey was running around like a madman crying for Tempie and demanding John admit he sold her.

 

After getting some lashes John told Josey about selling off Temple to settle a debt and it seemed to calm Josey down. 

 

HOWEVER, John told Josey that Tempie sat in the back of the wagon to keep warm and that riled Josey up again because Tempie was sold in the summer, not the winter.  Southern summer nights don't get cold.

 

John sold & distributed slaves to settle estates and he told Josey a story about how he did that, but IMO he didn't sell Tempie.  He just put her in the story he was telling Josey to calm him down.

[wanderingstar]

I really hope the show plans on doing something remarkable with his character because right now, I just want Noah to shoot him with that stolen gun.

 

I'm curious to see what happens with August's son, Ben, now that it looks like's going to be doing slave catching with his dad. He's going to grow up fast. It'd be so ironic if he turned on his father.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[ridethemaverick]

I don't know if it was on purpose or not (but knowing this show, it likely was), but I wonder if we were supposed to feel horrified watching Elizabeth whip John. And then I wonder if we were supposed to ask ourselves if we felt just as horrified watching Rosalee or other enslaved black people in other shows/films get whipped.

I was very uncomfortable during the scene. I was uncomfortable during Rosalee's whipping scene as well, but it was slightly different. I thought about that for awhile after the show went off. I still can't articulate it but I'm going to say I likely have an implicit bias due to media conditioning. I'm black, but conditioning is powerful. I don't know, just thinking out loud...

[netlyon2]

This is a really interesting question, and I agree that it's got some complexity to it.

The difference in the character relationships definitely has an impact, which I think would be there for any characters who were emotionally connected (married, related, friends, etc.). Furthermore, I was upset/scared for both John and Elizabeth in that scene--rather than just Rosalee--since they are both "good" characters. The gender flip and setting of the scene mattered as well; for me, there was a very palpable threat of sexual violence toward Elizabeth that was not present in the more public scene with Rosalee/Bill (of course, that cropped up later).

That being said, I agree that there is conditioning/bias there that colors our reactions as well. Even when we see the slaves as humans who matter, there is still a tendency to question what the POC did to deserve/provoke/bring about the violence that probably isn't there when a white character is hurt. We might think, "Wow, that beating is horrible, but that's the way it was back then, so s/he had to know that this would happen" or "It's terrible, but those were the times." Whereas with John and Elizabeth, the violence may have felt worse since they are 1. good (and therefore not deserving of the violence), 2. white (and therefore not supposed to be violated in that way), and 3. in their own home (which, in addition to our natural fear of having our safe space violated, was in the process of being set up as a place of sanctuary from violence).

I, too, was uncomfortable during those scenes and questioning their purpose; however, by the end of the episode I really appreciated their complexity and subversiveness.

- It turned out that John DID do something to deserve/provoke/bring about the violence against him. Not to say that Josey wasn't in the wrong, but the plot forced viewers to challenge their notion of what it meant to be a "good" white person by challenging John's view of himself. The aspect of the show that (rightfully) gets a lot of attention is the way in which it centers on the slaves stories and gives them agency; however, it is also taking a more nuanced approach to its presentation of white characters as well. Tom, Susannah, August, John, and Elizabeth all have different backgrounds, experiences, and situations that inform their actions and perspectives.

- I love that the show had Elizabeth look unflinchingly into her husband's eyes and tell him that he deserved the whipping that he got since he was passively complicit that one time a decade ago. I have really warmed to her character over the series, after worrying that she was going to be characterized as the accessory to her husband's abolitionist beliefs. Far from it! Rather than going along with John's crusade because she believes in him (or wants to make him happy), she clearly CHOOSES to be active based on her own conscience and beliefs. That scene at the party where she seems to be sad and dejected because they don't have children but is revealed to be absolutely horrified by the slave boy suspended from the ceiling was, for me, one of the best moments so far.

[GodsBeloved]

I teared up when Pearly Mae got captured!

My lord! A mother's love.

 

I need Boo to make it. I.NEED.IT

[GodsBeloved]

I don't know if it was on purpose or not (but knowing this show, it likely was), but I wonder if we were supposed to feel horrified watching Elizabeth whip John. And then I wonder if we were supposed to ask ourselves if we felt just as horrified watching Rosalee or other enslaved black people in other shows/films get whipped.

I was very uncomfortable during the scene. I was uncomfortable during Rosalee's whipping scene as well, but it was slightly different. I thought about that for awhile after the show went off. I still can't articulate it but I'm going to say I likely have an implicit bias due to media conditioning. I'm black, but conditioning is powerful. I don't know, just thinking out loud...

I was equally distrubed by both beatings. John is just as much a human being as Rosalee. It doesn't matter what color the person is. Its brutal to treat someone that way.

 

Plus, in this scenario, John and Elizabeth were the slaves. Slavery, no matter who the slave is, is deplorable.

[tiredofwork]

 

John is just as much a human being as Rosalee. It doesn't matter what color the person is. Its brutal to treat someone that way.

 

In my humble opinion, I disagree.  I believe once evil has permeated a person., e.g., Hitler, Charles Manson, anybody embracing ISIS, etc.., they ARE NOT "just as much a human".  I know this is not technically true, I fully understand the whole.., "equal under God's eyes" Faith acceptance, but I am not sanctified enough in life to embrace the thought.

 

So as this person has demonstrated and embraced evil, to me he has forfeited the right to be on the same level of humanity as me.

[C76]

I was equally distrubed by both beatings. John is just as much a human being as Rosalee. It doesn't matter what color the person is. Its brutal to treat someone that way.

 

Plus, in this scenario, John and Elizabeth were the slaves. Slavery, no matter who the slave is, is deplorable.

 

I disagree. Yes, whipping a human being is inhumane. However, I fail to see how being whipped and harassed during the antebellum equivalent of a home invasion makes John and Elizabeth slaves. I say this especially considering their presumed upbringing and obvious social status. 

 

What happened to them was terrible. But it cannot compare to experiencing a lifetime of brutalization.

Edited April 2, 2016 by C76

[Irlandesa]

Interesting. I actually covered my eyes during Rosalee's beating but not John's so maybe in reality/my emotions I found her's more distrubing.

Same here.  This is an interesting discussion about conditioning but I was more disturbed by Rosalee's. What happened with John and Elizabeth was disturbing but I felt it was fiction and it felt safe.  With Rosalee, it's fiction but there's a disturbing reality to her whipping scenes because of history. 

[wanderingstar]

Thinking more about this episode, I like that the character of Cato is unpredictable. Even though he freed the rest of the would-be runaways (minus Sam), I don't know that he can be trusted.

[Abra]

Okay, the fact that the show keeps spotlighting such bullshit about women - Elizabeth SoSadSheCan'tMakeABaby and Rosalee

Doesn'tKnowHerOwnStrengthUntilAManPointsItOutToHer - is pissing me off.

 

And Jurnee continues to be terrible. All of the acting talent apparently went to Jussie, who killed it in this episode.

 

That being said, this episode was amazing - the best so far, by far. Everything about Cato made me want to punch the air in glee, Sam kind of has my heart right now (why did he stay??), Noah refusing to leave without Henry, Ernestine being so smart to get that information about the train, Elizabeth telling John he got the whipping he deserved (!!) followed by him lighting the lantern in the window...

[Mozelle]

I, too, was uncomfortable during those scenes and questioning their purpose; however, by the end of the episode I really appreciated their complexity and subversiveness.

- It turned out that John DID do something to deserve/provoke/bring about the violence against him. Not to say that Josey wasn't in the wrong, but the plot forced viewers to challenge their notion of what it meant to be a "good" white person by challenging John's view of himself. The aspect of the show that (rightfully) gets a lot of attention is the way in which it centers on the slaves stories and gives them agency; however, it is also taking a more nuanced approach to its presentation of white characters as well. Tom, Susannah, August, John, and Elizabeth all have different backgrounds, experiences, and situations that inform their actions and perspectives.

 

I don't have WGN America, so by the time I've watched the episode, it's Sunday and all these thoughts have been shared. What you write in the part I quoted is exactly the takeaway I had. I think the narrative is forcing people (or I hope, at least, is giving people the opportunity to really grasp the complexities and nuances) to re-evaluate the very pat descriptor "good white person." Because American slavery history has been flattened so much (such that it's not even required in schools. I graduated high school in 1997, and the African American history class that I took senior year was an elective! As such, all my fellow classmates? Were Black like me.), it feels as though many people believe "Well, so-and-so didn't own any slaves" or "Such-and-such White abolitionist disagreed with the institution of slavery" and that's all there is to it. But the truth is that one didn't have to own slaves to still be complicit in the brutality and exploitation.

 

After all, the North also profited from the South's institution of chattel slavery.

 

Interesting. I actually covered my eyes during Rosalee's beating but not John's so maybe in reality/my emotions I found her's more distrubing.

 

That scene actually broke me down. I started crying and had to pause the show so that I could pace my apartment a bit then go wash my face.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Well damn, Now it's the Macon Six.

Plus Ernestine murked Pearly Mae, to keep her from spilling the tea.

RIP to her and Zeke.

[sereion]

Oh Cato....I knew you couldn't be trusted. Just sad that he threw Zeke under the bus. He went down fighting, though. I just wish he had enough strength to off Stabler.

I hate that Ernestine had to poison Pearly Mae(?), but I didn't think she had much of a choice since her daugther is now on the run.

I think Rosalee learned her lesson as to not to so trusting.

Edited April 8, 2016 by sereion

[Jx223]

Wow at tonight's episode. I was sorry to see what happened to Zeke and Pearly Mae. Cato showed that he really can't be trusted and is out mainly for himself. It was terrible what he did to Zeke. With the way that Zeke was taking down those men at the end, if Cato/Zeke had stayed together they may have been alright. Zeke fought to the end and maybe if Cato had been willing they could have took down those men together and escaped.

 

Poor Pearly Mae. I hated to see things end like that for her. Ernestine is showing that she is cutthroat and will do anything to protect her child. That was an interesting twist with it being revealed that Susannah and Pearly Mae are related. 

 

I enjoyed the scenes with Boo. She is a cutie and I hope she does help lead them to freedom. Maybe like someone suggested in one of the other threads we will find out that she actually knows how to read too and she will help the slaves in that way. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Jx223

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hoped Zeke would've fared better.

Than when the actor played Big Tiny on The Walking Dead.

August was lucky, Zeke would've broke his ass in half.

Had he been full strength.

Looks like Junior is gonna rebel, after that comment he made about helping Zeke.

[catrice2]

What happened to Moses and his daughter?  They are now down to four.  I can't believe that she was stupid enough to think they would honor those papers just because she could read them. 

 

Ernestine is cold as ice.   So far I think I have counted more slaves killing each other than the white people or slave catchers. 

 

Zeke- Cato's shooting him was just like killing him

Pealie May - Ernestine finished him off 

 

Maybe I missed it, but what city are the Underground Railroad helpers in?  I know they traveled to see his brother on the plantation, but where do they live? 

[drivethroo]

I think Boo can read, too.

 

Pearlie May & Miss Suzanna were half-sisters; Boo and TR & Mary are first cousins (and James & Rosalee are TR & Mary's siblings).  This is how you get white people 150 years later shocked and surprised black people have white ancestry and they have black people in their family trees.

 

I wonder if Suzanna knew Pearlie May could read and used the fact that Pearlie May could read the manumission papers (and the slave bill) to get her to reveal the slave whereabouts.

 

Boo & Moses are with the group; we're down to the Macon Six: Noah, Rosalee, Cato, Henry, Moses & Boo.

 

Ernestine is cold as ice but she knows what's in store for Rosalee (and Boo) if she's caught and brought back.  So it's best to help Rosalee escape knowing she will never see her again. Pearlie May was doing what she thought was best for her daughter, and Ernestine did what she thought was best for HER daughter.  Unfortunately for Pearlie May, Ernestine won.

 

Rosalee is going to need to tie her hair up if she's going to be running through the thicket.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Ernestine is revealed to be Suzanna's sister, too.

[ComeWhatMay]

"There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies." MLK

I love the shades of gray on this show & seeing what fundamentally good people may be driven to by circumstance or allow themselves to do based upon their surroundings. Tom went whole hog adopting a detestable "way of life" down to an accent, so clearly his morality was always flexible, but inherently evil with no redeeming qualities is not what I see.

A mother or father's love for her or his child is like no other in most instances, save with regard to absolute monsters & they certainly exist. Ernestine's spent her life in slavery, like Pearlie Mae. She wants better for Rosalee, as Pearlie Mae for Boo. Pearlie Mae just may have sacrificed her husband & Ernestine was willing to sacrifice Pearlie Mae to give Rosalee a shot at a life. Earl Macon, as Pearlie Mae pointed out, put her in the field as soon as she outgrew playing with Susannah, while Tom held Rosalee back after she outgrew playing with the younger Mary (making Rosalee his firstborn, at least surviving) -- & unbeknownst to Pearlie Mae & Ernestine -- would pay twice to have Rosalee returned alive. If Tom wasn't there, both Rosalee & James would be put in the field or heaven knows what with Susannah calling the shots, but they did a good job casting Tom, because there is feeling there -- not just told, but shown, however twisted & appalling to enlightened then or modern eyes now. The way RD's voice & demeanor noticeably changed when describing Rosalee...    

 

Earl Macon sounds almost entirely horrible, & for what its worth, I believe Susannah is a chip off the old block so those papers may have well been rescinded, but its what allowed Pearlie Mae to see the difference between her father & Tom with regard to Rosalee. "Blood means something to him. He will look after her." Rosalee should not come back, of course, & Tom deserves to feel Rosalee's loss for what he allowed to happen & what he himself did to her & her mother & brothers. Same as Tom's brother deserved those lashes for the perfunctory way he went about his "business" at one time.