Athena February 17, 2017 Share February 17, 2017 Main Segment: Vladmir Putin, Russian-United States Relations Link to comment
TVcritic February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 (edited) Hmmm ... IMHO it may not be about educating Agent Orange but finding out if he owes Vlad the Stud money or might be at a disadvantage to Putin otherwise. I so hope we'll find out soon before the sh*t hits the fan. Other than that, I liked the deep breath John took before mentioning Donnie's 'achievements'. Watching the show, I gradually have a harder time either laughing or being in shock about Sir Tweetalot's adventures, and I'm not even based in the US. Only 1 month past, more than 3 years to go ... oh well ... Edited February 20, 2017 by TVcritic 1 Link to comment
SuburbanHangSuite February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 What I took away from this ep is that Agent Orange probably idolizes Putin---he's everything he aspires to be. Narcissistic autocrat with staged photo ops? Check. Soulless thief who enriches his own friends? Check Let's just hope he's too bumbling to figure out how to start murdering his critics. 8 Link to comment
Danny Franks February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 Thank you, John, for finally focusing on some of the often overlooked facts about Putin and Russia. Putin's popularity in Russia is founded on the idea that he is making Russia great again. That after the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia fell into ignominy for a long time, and was insulted and dismissed by the rest of the world. And then Putin came along and set about restoring their rightful place as a global power. And it's not all complete bullshit. The West did take advantage of Russia's weakness to expand into Eastern Europe, and former Soviet states, the US did use a bully pulpit against Russia. He's proof that people will let you get away with a lot if you make them feel better about themselves. As John demonstrated, the wealth of Russia has been almost completely funnelled into the pockets of Putin, his allies and a few other oligarchs who have seen fit to just stay out of his way. No wonder Trump admires him so much! John could have kept reciting the names of Putin opponents and critics who have conveniently died all day, and still have more. The Litvinenko story was huge in Britain, because he was murdered here. But the government never really bothered to pursue the issue as they should, because when Putin himself is happy to come out and say, 'nah, it wasn't me. Bullshit. But such a shame he died, hey? Hope no one else has to die like that,' what can you do? Adam Curtis' documentary, Hypernormalisation, highlighted Putin's methodology for bamboozling his own citizens (and, to a lesser extent, other countries) into believing he's a great man. Deliberate misinformation, misdirection and a simplified, easy to understand narrative of Russia being constantly under threat from the West. This is how cults are born. To bring this back to Trump, the story has emerged that Putin might be writing Trump off as a bad investment, and has instructed his people to dial back their support. So it'll be interesting to see if a lot of online Trump fans mysteriously disappear. 8 Link to comment
Primetimer February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 It's only a twenty-minute segment, so it's not quite hit everything he doesn't know. View the full article Link to comment
iMonrey February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 Quote What I took away from this ep is that Agent Orange probably idolizes Putin---he's everything he aspires to be. We know Trump's businesses are heavily invested in Russia, by his son's own admission. I just think Trump and Putin are cozier than Trump would like us to think given Russian's blatant interference in the election. Trump can't deny they're behind the hacking so he wants to play it off like he barely knows Putin. 5 Link to comment
stillshimpy February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 Two things: I weirdly appreciated that John acknowledged that whatever form of dance Putin's daughter was doing there, it was sort of cool and despite how retro that looked since Putin's daughters are both in their very early thirties, that footage did not actually come to us via a time link to 1984. Also, this morning the Russian Ambassador to the UN collapsed and died, stated cause was a cardiac event. After John's show, I felt like suggesting that investigators check the hood of his car. Godspeed to John Oliver on trying to navigate the ultimate weirdness of commenting on Trump's words about Putin and just kind of leaving the whole "why's he doing this...well, er, um... who can say ..." out there because truly, motivations and ties aside, no matter the reason it is freaky for any leader to be openly admiring a guy who is globally acknowledged to be the sort of guy who murders his enemies in sometimes weird and inventive ways. Awesome, kudos to the Bond Villain? A few months back I remember listening to a report on NPR about media representations and how in TVs and films Russians aren't depicted as anything other than criminal and how unfair that is. I agree it is unfair because there are decent people everywhere, I'm just a little less confused now as to where all those negative impressions start. Damn. Also, I'm now really worried about the hood of John's car. 9 Link to comment
Danny Franks February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 53 minutes ago, stillshimpy said: A few months back I remember listening to a report on NPR about media representations and how in TVs and films Russians aren't depicted as anything other than criminal and how unfair that is. I agree it is unfair because there are decent people everywhere, I'm just a little less confused now as to where all those negative impressions start. Damn. I would say that's a problem of almost seventy years of Western culture being told that Russians are bad guys. Even when they were allies during the Second World War, they were still Communists, and still seen as a threat to Western democracy. Archetypes can be established very quickly, and for most of the history of mass media, Russia has been the enemy. I was trying to think of positive presentations of Russians in media, and I came up with a couple: Piotr Rasputin, Colossus, of the X-Men. Natasha Romanoff, the Black Widow. Sean Connery and his loyalists in Hunt for the Red October. Pavel Chekov from Star Trek. Mikhail Baryshnikov... I guess? That's a slim list, and it does condition people to think of Russians in certain ways. Usually either communist thugs or gangsters, depending on the period. This all predates Putin significantly, of course, but he really does fit most of the negative stereotypes that we might believe about Russians. And I don't doubt that this pervasive view of Russians in the West is used in Russia as an example of how prejudiced Westerners are. So it ends up being a bit of a vicious circle. 2 Link to comment
peeayebee February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 10 hours ago, TVcritic said: Hmmm ... IMHO it may not be about educating Agent Orange but finding out if he owes Vlad the Stud money or might be at a disadvantage to Putin otherwise. Not that Trump would ever hear or see anything from John Oliver, but T does need educating. However, a ton of cliches come to mind, like leading a horse to water. T is basically averse to being a student. Anyway, although I believe he does have a financial interest in being friendly with Putin, it's also possible that he dismisses negative info about him. He wants to believe Putin is a strong dealmaker, just like himself, so criticism of Putin just comes from the losers. Sad. I'm aghast at how T's supporters don't hear the nonsense that comes out of his mouth as nonsense. 3 Link to comment
Victor the Crab February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 Nothing that Ollie said about Putin came as a surprise to me - except for the part about his agents taking a shit on someone's car hood (yuck!). Perhaps Ollie should have been more harsh on most of those on the right who, in the past, have been praising Putin as a strong leader while blasting Obama as being weak by comparison. A lot more noise needs to be made about Drumph's bromance with Putin. When Drumph singles out Fox and Friends as being a great news show, you just know how lousy and laughable it really is. Bravo Ollie! 3 hours ago, Danny Franks said: Natasha Romanoff, the Black Widow. Actually, Natasha Romanoff - aka, the Black Widow - debuted in the 1960s as a villainous femme fatale Soviet spy, with brunette hair and sexy dresses of that time, to go up against capitalist Iron Man. Her only abilities were to charm and seduce men to do her bidding, such as a very green and naïve Hawkeye. It wasn't until years later when she defected to the West and got a complete and total makeover, including becoming a redhead, that she became the kickass boss superhero we know today. 4 Link to comment
PepperMonkey February 20, 2017 Share February 20, 2017 (edited) FLORIDA BINGO!!! As a former Florida resident, still have family and friends there, and even with all its faults, we loved it..... When JO was doing the story, I said wow, all we need is a meth angle, and Mr Monkey said, or a python that's gotten loose and is hiding under someone's house... BINGO!!!!!! And yes, yes, YES, to Trump admiring Putin because Putin has managed to get rich off the Russian government: I call this administration (loosely using that term) CASH GRAB 2017. Edited February 20, 2017 by PepperMonkey 6 Link to comment
stillshimpy February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Danny Franks said: Archetypes can be established very quickly, and for most of the history of mass media, Russia has been the enemy. I was trying to think of positive presentations of Russians in media, and I came up with a couple: I think we might be making separate points, Danny Franks, the piece was about the proliferation of negative depictions of Russians in films and TV, so it was acknowledging them and I was saying that whereas there are good people everywhere, I'm beginning to understand that they may also always have been based on people in real-life . Putin acts like the cliche of a villainous Russian. Other than drinking. Personally, that makes him seem scarier. Also, it's horrifying but I still have the tune to "A Man Like Putin" stuck in my brain specifically because of that lyric. It's just the implication would be the "doesn't drink!" makes him practically a unicorn among Russian men, if the song is to be believed. Or maybe that's just called out because it's just considered that virtuous. Between that and the Russian newscaster best described with a rare and yet still appropriate use of the word lugubrious, I'm about ready to go sing some unnervingly patriotic song like America the Beautiful because I'm just that glad that my TV lineup doesn't feature that festive evening. I was just sure Justin Trudeau's defeat of the 45shake would make it on this week's show. Not that I blame him for leaving that off. It wasn't exactly a slow news week [/dry font] Edited February 21, 2017 by stillshimpy 3 Link to comment
walnutqueen February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Danny Franks said: I would say that's a problem of almost seventy years of Western culture being told that Russians are bad guys. Even when they were allies during the Second World War, they were still Communists, and still seen as a threat to Western democracy. Archetypes can be established very quickly, and for most of the history of mass media, Russia has been the enemy. I was trying to think of positive presentations of Russians in media, and I came up with a couple: Piotr Rasputin, Colossus, of the X-Men. Natasha Romanoff, the Black Widow. Sean Connery and his loyalists in Hunt for the Red October. Pavel Chekov from Star Trek. Mikhail Baryshnikov... I guess? That's a slim list, and it does condition people to think of Russians in certain ways. Usually either communist thugs or gangsters, depending on the period. This all predates Putin significantly, of course, but he really does fit most of the negative stereotypes that we might believe about Russians. And I don't doubt that this pervasive view of Russians in the West is used in Russia as an example of how prejudiced Westerners are. So it ends up being a bit of a vicious circle. Try as I may to keep an open mind, I am the product of a mother who spent her adolescent years running from the nazis and russians, in that order. WWII fucked up a lot of our sensibilities, and that has resonated throughout our history. Putting (not Putin) all that aside, I do not like the way the world is turning back these days, and fervently wish more youngsters would take this shit to heart. And RISE, RISE, RISE. 5 Link to comment
ottoDbusdriver February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 9 hours ago, stillshimpy said: Also, I'm now really worried about the hood of John's car. No kidding, Ollie might have a new hood ornament. 3 Link to comment
izabella February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, walnutqueen said: Try as I may to keep an open mind, I am the product of a mother who spent her adolescent years running from the nazis and russians, in that order. WWII fucked up a lot of our sensibilities, and that has resonated throughout our history. Putting (not Putin) all that aside, I do not like the way the world is turning back these days, and fervently wish more youngsters would take this shit to heart. And RISE, RISE, RISE. I had a different upbringing, so my view of Russians as a people, is pretty much the same as my view of Americans or Greeks or Mexicans or Indians. There are good people everywhere, and some horrible ones. And they are all at the mercy of their leaders and governments and institutions. "The people" are not "the government" but most of the actions on which we judge "the people" are those of "the government." Just like the people of Syria are not Assad, the people of Russia are not Putin, and the people of America are not Trump (nor were they Obama). Most people are just trying to get by one day at a time. 2 Link to comment
walnutqueen February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, izabella said: I had a different upbringing, so my view of Russians as a people, is pretty much the same as my view of Americans or Greeks or Mexicans or Indians. There are good people everywhere, and some horrible ones. And they are all at the mercy of their leaders and governments and institutions. "The people" are not "the government" but most of the actions on which we judge "the people" are those of "the government." Just like the people of Syria are not Assad, the people of Russia are not Putin, and the people of America are not Trump (nor were they Obama). Most people are just trying to get by one day at a time. I totally agree with everything you said. My "disabled" shorthand (crippled hands -= less typing) and a semi-disabled keyboard made my response less than optimal. The gist of my message was that horrible, corrupt and sometimes downright evil leadership ()i.e. government) can, and has, led to the rise of the "lesser" of humanity - and I would implore our young people to "rise above" the propeganda that encourages bad actions and activities - especially State sponsored ones. If everyone on the planet could be satisfied with just getting by one day at a time, like the majority of us do, we wouldn't have created this mess of a world we have to inhabit. Governments are all too often the antithapy of the people's interests, and all societies are fallible. "Ignorance Is Bliss" has never before applied to someone like Trump. YIIIKES!!! 2 Link to comment
TVcritic February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 (edited) Rachel Maddow had an extremely interesting story involving Trump and Russia on her show: I hope John picks it up and makes Pt. 2 of Trump and Russia. So much to investigate! EDIT - just found this: Impeachment cannot come soon enough ... Edited February 21, 2017 by TVcritic 4 Link to comment
peeayebee February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 Thanks for the links. The Rachel Maddow story was interesting. It was good to get the connection betw the Russian people finding the papers at the oligarch's estate and the discovery of Manafort's name in the ledger. I knew of each thing individually (at least of the oligarch's lavish estate, not the papers), but to put them together for us viewers was helpful. And I've said before that I hope John does a story on all these Russian connections and makes the labyrinth understandable. I'll have to watch that second link (of the documentary) later. Link to comment
Danny Franks February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 I would hope that some intrepid investigative journalists are, right now, piecing all of this together and connecting all the dots, to turn this series of reports and possibly related events into a single narrative. Once they do that (and it seems like they'll have the assistance of the US intelligence community), it should hopefully be curtains for Trump and his whole band of would-be autocrats. I find it hugely ironic, in a delightful way, that the likes of Bannon, Trump, Milo and even their comrades over here, UKIP, now led by Paul Nuttall (who is currently in the process of being outed as a complete fraud), and Marine Le Pen's party in France, have been striving to be taken seriously, have been slowly working their way up towards acceptance as legitimate figures, and yet it seems like having the spotlight shone on them now may prove to be their undoing. Because now more and more people are beginning to see how crooked they all are. Link to comment
Jersey Guy 87 February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 16 hours ago, Victor the Crab said: Nothing that Ollie said about Putin came as a surprise to me - except for the part about his agents taking a shit on someone's car hood (yuck!). Perhaps Ollie should have been more harsh on most of those on the right who, in the past, have been praising Putin as a strong leader while blasting Obama as being weak by comparison. A lot more noise needs to be made about Drumph's bromance with Putin. When Drumph singles out Fox and Friends as being a great news show, you just know how lousy and laughable it really is. Bravo Ollie! Yeah, the crapping on someone's car bit was a bit of a shock - kind of like mixing a dumb college prank with state-sponsored murder. Why? And that Trump thinks Fox and Friends is a great news show says all you need to know about Trump (and about Fox and Friends). The Russian connection is really a problem. I'm worried we won't have a real investigation. 2 Link to comment
Hanahope February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 18 hours ago, stillshimpy said: It wasn't exactly a slow news week [/dry font] Unfortunately, I fear that will be the case every week. I can see where Olly is afraid of his show becoming all-trump all the time. I hope that will not be the case, even with it never being a slow news weeks as far as trump is concerned. The Russia connection is very troubling. How do the right wing "patriotic" members who shout "God and country" handle our own president lauding Putin (who is certainly anti-US and anti God/religion), appointing cabinet members with close business ties to Russia and having his own administration break laws/lie about their connections/communications with Russia? They should be clammouring to their Republican representatives to hold an investigation. 5 Link to comment
stillshimpy February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 6 hours ago, Jersey Guy 87 said: Yeah, the crapping on someone's car bit was a bit of a shock - kind of like mixing a dumb college prank with state-sponsored murder. Why? Yeah, I sort of didn't even get it as a "Whooooooaaaaa, they're sending a message there!" Don't get me wrong, it's gross and disturbing, I just don't understand it as a tool of political pressure brought to bear. "Well, my mind was made up...but I have a horror of all things scatological, therefore..." It's weirdly juvenile for a guy who has also had someone poisoned...repeatedly. 2 Link to comment
Hanahope February 21, 2017 Share February 21, 2017 22 minutes ago, stillshimpy said: It's weirdly juvenile for a guy who has also had someone poisoned...repeatedly. Agreed. It just made me think about that moon roof bit in Better Call Saul. 3 Link to comment
sum February 22, 2017 Share February 22, 2017 10 hours ago, Hanahope said: Unfortunately, I fear that will be the case every week. I can see where Olly is afraid of his show becoming all-trump all the time. I hope that will not be the case, even with it never being a slow news weeks as far as trump is concerned. The Russia connection is very troubling. How do the right wing "patriotic" members who shout "God and country" handle our own president lauding Putin (who is certainly anti-US and anti God/religion), appointing cabinet members with close business ties to Russia and having his own administration break laws/lie about their connections/communications with Russia? They should be clammouring to their Republican representatives to hold an investigation. It'd be complicated (amending contracts, hiring more staffs, etc.) but this show really need to be longer than 30 minutes. I'm sure HBO can afford it and I don't see why John would be against it. Link to comment
Quickbeam February 23, 2017 Share February 23, 2017 Funny but I really am afraid this will become the Trump show. I grew up around the aura of The Donald and there is nothing now that hadn't been in his weave forever. I'd like to see more variety because I'll just stop watching if it is all Trump. I did love the Prime Minister's face looking at the little girl's art. Boy, you can't make that up. 1 Link to comment
iMonrey February 23, 2017 Share February 23, 2017 The problem is - what can they feature at this point that doesn't involve Trump in some way? Let's say they do a piece on the lack of clean water in parts of Africa. Somehow, it will all lead back to our current administration and how they pulled funding for things like this. Their agenda permeates every critical story I can think of, from health issues to environmental issues to immigration issues. 5 Link to comment
Danny Franks February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 6 hours ago, iMonrey said: The problem is - what can they feature at this point that doesn't involve Trump in some way? Let's say they do a piece on the lack of clean water in parts of Africa. Somehow, it will all lead back to our current administration and how they pulled funding for things like this. Their agenda permeates every critical story I can think of, from health issues to environmental issues to immigration issues. They can focus on established Republican policies and the serious consequences they're likely to have. Policies that they were pursuing independent of Trump. I'd love to see an episode on Kansas' economic collapse under their Republican governor, who enacted all the policies that Paul Ryan and co want to inflict on the entire US. A lot of that sort of thing would inevitably touch on Trump a little, but only indirectly. He wouldn't even need to be mentioned, most of the time. 9 Link to comment
stillshimpy February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Danny Franks said: I'd love to see an episode on Kansas' economic collapse under their Republican governor, who enacted all the policies that Paul Ryan and co want to inflict on the entire US. I wouldn't normally say this but maybe send that in as a suggestion to the show? I was talking about this elsewhere but I repeatedly drove through Kansas for a four-year period, stopping overnight along the way in one of two or three historic towns (Hays, Abilene, Salina ...or once, horribly, Topeka) ...and I swear to god, I could see the state economy collapsing dramatically in the course of those four years. It broke my heart. That would be a really interesting piece, I think. By the way, that song is still popping into my head and I wanted to mention: Way to make the absolute most of your opportunity there, Middle Dancer who everyone would focus upon. That woman was all in. It was entirely wonderful. It's potentially international exposure, so good for her. She even gave the hair flip her all. It was endearing. 4 Link to comment
Victor the Crab February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Danny Franks said: They can focus on established Republican policies and the serious consequences they're likely to have. Policies that they were pursuing independent of Trump. I'd love to see an episode on Kansas' economic collapse under their Republican governor, who enacted all the policies that Paul Ryan and co want to inflict on the entire US. A lot of that sort of thing would inevitably touch on Trump a little, but only indirectly. He wouldn't even need to be mentioned, most of the time. The better focus should be on why voters keep electing fucking imbeciles, like Sam Brownback, into office. These scumbags clearly want to continue hurting them and they seem fine by it. 4 Link to comment
fastiller February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 12 hours ago, Danny Franks said: I'd love to see an episode on Kansas' economic collapse under their Republican governor, who enacted all the policies that Paul Ryan and co want to inflict on the entire US. & 9 hours ago, stillshimpy said: I wouldn't normally say this but maybe send that in as a suggestion to the show? I was talking about this elsewhere but I repeatedly drove through Kansas for a four-year period, stopping overnight along the way in one of two or three historic towns (Hays, Abilene, Salina ...or once, horribly, Topeka) ...and I swear to god, I could see the state economy collapsing dramatically in the course of those four years. It broke my heart. That would be a really interesting piece, I think. How about a compare & contrast piece about how the economic and fiscal policies of states like Kansas and California have resulted in vastly different outcomes? 7 Link to comment
Danny Franks February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 10 hours ago, stillshimpy said: I wouldn't normally say this but maybe send that in as a suggestion to the show? I was talking about this elsewhere but I repeatedly drove through Kansas for a four-year period, stopping overnight along the way in one of two or three historic towns (Hays, Abilene, Salina ...or once, horribly, Topeka) ...and I swear to god, I could see the state economy collapsing dramatically in the course of those four years. It broke my heart. I've read a bit on the Kansas economic crash, and think it's absolutely criminal, what Brownback and the Republicans did. Their arrogance to pursue damaging policies as a way of... what... testing their economic theories? And then doubling down when it was clear they didn't work? These people are moral vacuums. They've happily ruin lives, just to further their ideological goals. 10 hours ago, Victor the Crab said: The better focus should be on why voters keep electing fucking imbeciles, like Sam Brownback, into office. These scumbags clearly want to continue hurting them and they seem fine by it. Oh, I can answer that. Guns and abortion. Get on the 'right' side of those issues, and it seems like a large part of America will vote for you, even if you're actively grinding their faces in to the mud while you steal food from their table. But in a slightly more detailed analysis, it seems like a lack of education on a lot of these issues opens the door for people to be fooled, and then media manipulation directs the blame at someone else. And the cycle just repeats, each time becoming more partisan and bitter, and people get entrenched in their own 'side' as though it was their favourite sports team. Not only did Brownback get elected, he got re-elected! 1 hour ago, fastiller said: & How about a compare & contrast piece about how the economic and fiscal policies of states like Kansas and California have resulted in vastly different outcomes? That would be a great piece, but I feel like John would need to devote more than one episode to it, to do it justice. It's an issue that should be brought up repeatedly by Democrats and progressives, that California has shown the way forward, that Republican economics are a failure, and the evidence is all there. Of course, most Republicans will just stick their fingers in their ears and ignore it, but it should still be said. 6 Link to comment
iMonrey February 24, 2017 Share February 24, 2017 Quote They can focus on established Republican policies and the serious consequences they're likely to have. Policies that they were pursuing independent of Trump. Unfortunately, even those roads now lead back to Trump due to who he has put in charge of his various departments. Whether it's an established Republican policy about healthcare, immigration, environment, regulation, gun control, LGBTQ rights, taxes . . . you name it. It all trickles back up to who is pushing those policies, who has the power to enact them, and who's signing the bills. These subjects were easier to address without referencing the president when Obama was in office than they are now. 3 Link to comment
stillshimpy February 25, 2017 Share February 25, 2017 There really are a lot of potentially interesting stories having to do with economics. I really hope that John tackles some things that are peripheral to 45. By the way, one other thing that I was sort of fixated on and cracked me up: Guys, Putin has terrible exercise form. My husband compared it to a 1980s gym rat, when no one knew what the hell they were doing. Between the track suit and the freaking Nautilus machines (it's the way back machine for exercise!) and his truly horrific form I kept expecting some bomchickawowwo time of music to start playing. It had that cheesy, fictional setup look to it which I'm sure is partly because it was a cheesy fictional setup. Maybe we will all be delivered from that crazy man when he herniates three disks at once and spends the rest of his days in PT. I can dream. 6 Link to comment
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