S05.E13: Spectre Of The Gun

[statsgirl]

I'm totally on board with the idea that Oliver is depressed this season.  It explains a lot about his behaviour.

What I'm sceptical about is that the writers are doing it knowingly.

Edited February 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[Hiveminder]

37 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm totally on board with the idea that Oliver is depressed this season.  It explains a lot about his behaviour.

What I'm sceptical about is that the writers are doing knowingly.

Like I said, I really doubt they are doing it on purpose. It's possible they are though. Despite recent evidence to the contrary, they are not completely incompetent. They just have a tendency to drop the ball. It's like either their ideas outstrip their talent level, or they've gotten stuck in some writing echo chamber. 

Slightly more likely is that SA is purposely putting that into his performance. I think that idea is supported by his excellent portrayal of someone suffering from PTSD in season one. If it weren't for SA I probably wouldn't like Oliver at all. 

Would this conversation be better in maybe the Oliver Queen character thread? It doesn't seem to be strictly related to this episode. 

[dtissagirl]

I could buy that Steve is playing Oliver as depressed if the fact that Oliver is depressed becomes part of the story.  Otherwise, what's the point of it? This show has never ever been subtle about anything ever, so I would need it to become text.

He's going through the motions, sure, but unless it becomes a narrative beat, it feels just like back when KC would make weird acting choices that didn't pan out because that wasn't the story the show was telling. 

Edited February 18, 2017 by dtissagirl

[romantic idiot]

The point of art is the message. Art without a message is just craft, IMO. And the writers do have every right to put in whatever message they want. The problem is that this episode was so terrible that any message is pointless.

[scarynikki12]

Hey everyone! Thanks for making our first live episode chat a great experience.  A couple reminders:  talking about real world politics is a no and this is not a platform for personal political opinions.  Those posts will be hidden immediately.  You have the whole of the internet to talk politics and personal political opinions so please keep that in mind with your PTV discussions. 

Thanks

Your Mods

 

 

[BkWurm1]

Aww!  You picked that kitty picture just for us, didn't you.  I could get behind that Green Arrow.  

[immortalfrieza]

Now, I don't mind that they did a Very Special Episode about gun control, what I DO mind is how every other sentence coming out of their mouths was whining one way or another about guns while most of it not actually coming from the context of the scenes or the personalities of the characters. Very Special Episodes only work when

A. it's a work designed for children as adults and teenagers already know about this stuff and have formed their opinions on it long before. No Very Special Episode is going to make anyone change their opinion on anything unless they are too young to even have one.

B. It grows organically out of who the characters are and what the situation is. This whole episode only could have worked if Team Arrow and Friends was filled with people who actually have good reason to be on both sides of the debate and if Star City didn't get some place shot up every week with many casualties that nobody ever screamed gun control on.

C. The message is stated in passing instead of being preached. Simply stating the message with every word where the writers can even remotely justify it over and over is just going to annoy the viewer, not inform or convince them of anything.

Honestly? If they had thrown out the whole gun control message and just had the plot be about some nutjob shooting up City Hall, Team Arrow tracking him down, and Rene revealing to the audience a piece of his past the whole episode would have been a LOT better. In fact, out of 5 seasons of episodes this is easily the only one yet which I would consider not just middling but outright bad, and I've liked every episode Arrow has had to some degree or another.

On 2/16/2017 at 7:39 PM, RobertDeSneero said:

I think that was much more probably to be the last time he tried to get his daughter back after multiple attempts rather than the first time.  It's likely that months have passed since his wife died and his daughter was taken away.  The shooting occurred during a time when hockey (I assume) was being played and it was cold enough for a mother to tell her daughter to wear a coat because it was cold outside.  The phone call probably occurred in May, since that is when the episode aired and TV time of the year generally tracks to real time.   Putting on a mask was probably partly an attempt to get out of the downward spiral of drinking and depression brought on by losing the two most important people in his life, or to die trying and put himself out of his misery.

Yeah, it definitely seems to me that Rene had exhausted all legal avenues a guy in his situation would really have to get his daughter back, he was past even being able to get her back at the point of the phone call, he was just trying be able to visit her and still being denied. Then he sees the Green Arrow killing Damien Darhk and becomes inspired by his example to help the city, thus Wild Dog is born. Becoming a vigilante wasn't about Rene improving his situation so he could get his daughter back, he has until Curtis offered to help every reason to think that there was absolutely nothing he could do to get her back, but about doing something, ANYTHING to contribute just so he wouldn't wallow in his own hopelessness.

[thegirlsleuth]

14 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

Now, I don't mind that they did a Very Special Episode about gun control, what I DO mind is how every other sentence coming out of their mouths was whining one way or another about guns while most of it not actually coming from the context of the scenes or the personalities of the characters. Very Special Episodes only work when

A. it's a work designed for children as adults and teenagers already know about this stuff and have formed their opinions on it long before. No Very Special Episode is going to make anyone change their opinion on anything unless they are too young to even have one.

 

This is such a great point.  I had wondered if it didn't work because we're now much more sophisticated viewers, but even back in the 80s and 90s, very special episodes were only on shows aimed at kids.

[apinknightmare]

9 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Yeah, it definitely seems to me that Rene had exhausted all legal avenues a guy in his situation would really have to get his daughter back, he was past even being able to get her back at the point of the phone call, he was just trying be able to visit her and still being denied.

They didn't give us a whole lot to go on, but when he talks to whoever it is on the phone, he says, "Unsafe environment? What does that even mean?" Seems to me that indicates that is the first time he's heard those words, which wouldn't be the case if he'd been repeatedly trying to see her/get her back and that was the reason. 

Edited February 19, 2017 by apinknightmare

[finnaire]

Rene walked into an apartment with over turned furniture. With his kid. Instead of getting her out of the house and calling 911, he sends her off to bed. Before checking the place out. He has no sense at all.  He shoots and kills a guy with an illegal gun.  His wife gets killed by a drug dealer with his daughter standing there. There are drugs in the house. And, he doesn't know what a "safe" environment means. Maybe he was drunk when he said that.

I feel totally justified in my immediate hate when introduced to him "disarming" a bomb. Because I'm sure he was all read up and educated about doing that. The flashback just confirmed for me he is and always will be an idiot. No learning curve.

P.S. I will always hate that intro scene because it's a reminder we could have gotten Lonnie Mecham as our lovable reprobate in need of a team and redemption and instead we got Wild Dong.

[ComicFan777]

"Oh, but when is Mommy coming back to the team?"...Anarky on Team Arrow with a redemption arc would be a riot.

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said:

"Oh, but when is Mommy coming back to the team?"...Anarky on Team Arrow with a redemption arc would be a riot.

I would overall agree, esp. bc I think that actor is great, but he was too rapey with that mayoral candidate's daughter for me to get on that bus. 

[finnaire]

I never said it would be easy!

[AyChihuahua]

4 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I never said it would be easy!

It wouldn't work for me at all. I can deal with redemption for a lot, but not rapey crap.

[tennisgurl]

This episode just makes Rene confusing to me. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I always read Rene as relatively young, like in his 20s, mostly because, until the last, like, two episodes, he's come off as an annoying hot headed kid 24/7 who hates authority and working with others and is constantly running off and doing dumb shit. But, according to this, he's old enough to be married and have had a 12 year old by last year, and has apparently been out of the military long enough to get his life together somewhat, until his wife got killed. How old is he supposed to be? I just find his backstory confusing and weird. He seems to have gone back and fourth from being trouble, to being alright, to being trouble again, over and over. I know that happens in real life too, but it makes for a confusing character backstory unless his struggles to give into his darker angels is a part of his character. This backstory has makes his stupid, risk taking behavior seem REALLY dickish in retrospect. Maybe he did try to get his daughter back, but it doesn't seem like he tried very hard. He apparently didn't even check up on her (it seemed like he just saw she was in a good foster home in this episode), even after seeing her mom die. So now the poor kid saw her mom die a violent death, saw her dad kill a guy, and then her dad was apparently was more interested in running around in a stupid hockey mask and almost dying 30 times instead of trying to get custody of her, or even supervised visitation. Rene has been much less of an asshole lately, but this whole thing makes him worse to me, not better. Also, take a shot everyone! Its the classic Dead Wife Backstory!

My issue with the Very Special Episode stuff isn't really that it was a VSP, but what the actual message was. I think the best part of the whole episode was when Curtis was saying how he thought it was good to discuss political and social issues in a respectful and civil way, even if Felicity had to be kind of an idiot to make it happen. To me, that's a MUCH more interesting message to put fourth than "Gun Control is Complicated" or whatever we were supposed to get out of that. The message of "intelligent discourse on complicated issues is an important part of society" is a really good one,  and I did like that everyone stayed pretty civil in their debates, even of their points weren't great, and if they focused on that message, I would have liked this episode a lot more. The "Its complicated" thing isn't a message, its a wishy washy status update on Facebook. Yeah, it is complicated, but I felt like we got literally nowhere in this whole episode.

[statsgirl]

Rene:  "Unsafe environment? What does that even mean?"

Me:  Get the guns out of the apartment.  Get a job so you can provide for her.  Find some safe child care while you're at work.  It's not rocket science.

The fact that Rene doesn't know what a safe environment to bring up a child in speaks volumes to me.

Being inspired by the Green Arrow to be a vigilante is a short term solution but it's not going to get his daughter back.  Will Curtis be able to convince him of that?  Or is this how they're going to write Rene off the show, by getting his daughter back and choosing to provide a safe environment for her?  (I'd applaud that if the show did it.)

28 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 The message of "intelligent discourse on complicated issues is an important part of society" is a really good one,  and I did like that everyone stayed pretty civil in their debates, even of their points weren't great, and if they focused on that message, I would have liked this episode a lot more.

Good point. I wish they had focused on that, because respectful and intelligent discourse is something that has disappeared in the past few years since MG was watching TWW..

Edited February 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[bijoux]

Did Rene face charges for killing the drug dealer?

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Or is this how they're going to write Rene off the show, by getting his daughter back and choosing to provide a safe environment for her?  (I'd applaud that if the show did it.)

I could easily see them going that route if they decide not to bring him back next season (which, for the record, I'm 50/50 on whether that will happen or not). 

[FortKnox]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Did Rene face charges for killing the drug dealer?

Doubt it, seeing it was in self-defense.

[bijoux]

Okay. I was just thinking maybe it was another one for the con column regardin him keeping custody of his kid.

[Chyromaniac]

Rene:  "Unsafe environment? What does that even mean?"

Me:  Get the guns out of the apartment.  Get a job so you can provide for her.  Find some safe child care while you're at work.  It's not rocket science.

The fact that Rene doesn't know what a safe environment to bring up a child in speaks volumes to me.

Exactly. "What does that even mean?" is the kind of thing someone says when they've already been told a million times how badly they've screwed up, and they still don't get it.  Oh, and I'd add "quit drinking" and "clean up the place" to Rene's safe environment checklist.

[benteen]

Telling his daughter to go to her room when they returned home to a ransacked house was absolutely insane.  Rene definitely loses major points on that one.

I'm going to call that bill at the end the Star City Gun Ordnance of Vagueness. 

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I'm going to call that bill at the end the Star City Gun Ordnance of Vagueness. 

Sounds perfect to me! I mean, they described it as "we wont take your guns, but we want to make sure everyone is safer" or something like that. Like, what the hell does that even mean? Everyone keeps their guns, but instead of bullets, they're filled with paint balls? Nerf balls? Marshmallows? Also, this is Star City we`re talking about. If I wanted to keep people safe, I would be casing stores that sold all black outfits, military gear, vials that could be used to contain serums, and the anything that sells what be could be used to build death rays or hurricane machines.

[bijoux]

Youtube tricked me into watching a scene in which Rene and... Mrs Dog fight over him wanting to take a gun with him to a game he was going to see with his daughter. My single take away is, how far in was she actually? Because she looked amazing. Laurel was popping pills and swilling booze for maybe two weeks before she started looking like crap. Yet this lady looked fresh and rested and ready for her shot for the Pantene ad.

[dtissagirl]

My main reaction to Mrs Dog was going OMG SAMARIE ARMSTRONG, WHERE YOU BEEN, GIRL? 

Because the last thing I remembered her on was [Berlanti's] Dirty Sexy Money.  And finding out her last regular gig was working for Guggenheim's wife on Resurrection. Hollywood is a teeny tiny town. 

[lemotomato]

I didn't see this brought up, and I hadn't watched the episode until today, but did anyone else notice that the scene with Digg and Dinah sparring resembled the Tinah casting side side that was leaked? IIRC, the casting side included: sparring in the lair, "Oliver" complimenting Tina on how well she fought, Tina talking about her backstory, "Oliver" and Tina sharing a long look, and Felicity interrupting with "I found something!"

No wonder everyone was commenting on the vibes between Tinah/Digg. There's your chem test scene, lol.

Edited February 21, 2017 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't see this brought up, and I hadn't watched the episode until today, but did anyone else notice that the scene with Digg and Dinah sparring resembled the Tinah casting side side that was leaked? IIRC, the casting side included: sparring in the lair, "Oliver" complimenting Tina on how well she fought, Tina talking about her backstory, "Oliver" and Tina sharing a long look, and Felicity interrupting with "I found something!"

No wonder everyone was commenting on the vibes between Tinah/Digg. There's your chem test scene, lol.

Good catch!

[statsgirl]

But why would they chem test Dinah with Diggle unless they were thinking of killing off Lyla?  Diggle/Lyla is the one stable relationship the show has and Dinah wouldn't be making many friends among the viewers if she started an affair with a married Diggle.

[Thundercatmary]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

But why would they chem test Dinah with Diggle unless they were thinking of killing off Lyla?  Diggle/Lyla is the one stable relationship the show has and Dinah wouldn't be making many friends among the viewers if she started an affair with a married Diggle.

Yeah there's no way they would do something that dumb. Hope they don't go there but it wouldn't be the first thing they've done that i've side eyed. Still it is amusing considering how much discussion was had about that side/scene.

[Mellowyellow]

I didn't find it sultry at all actually compared to the scene last week in Russia where she made a comment and it was all sexy delivery.

Are there any other scenes in 513 with Dig that are flirty or is this it?

Random thought: Felicity looking mega hot in a tight skirt! Wow!

[lemotomato]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But why would they chem test Dinah with Diggle unless they were thinking of killing off Lyla?  Diggle/Lyla is the one stable relationship the show has and Dinah wouldn't be making many friends among the viewers if she started an affair with a married Diggle.

I'm not saying anything is actually going to happen between Tinah/Digg. Just pointing out that the scene in the casting sides that fueled the Oliver/Tina hookup speculation turned out to be between Tinah and Digg, with Oliver looking bored in the background.

Edited February 21, 2017 by lemotomato

[Starfish35]

Aghhhh.  I do not want to watch this episode you guys!  But you're making me very very curious about these Diggle/Dinah scenes.  Now I want to see them for myself and see if it comes across the same way to me. Lol.  Maybe I'll watch it and just fast forward through everything else.  

[bijoux]

They make such weird writing choices. Felicity says she made a breakthrough and Tinah just goes home to chill? So, so weird.

[statsgirl]

In the casting sides, Tinah has a long speech about

Spoiler

being a marine, and then saying Prometheus has just disappeared and tre's nowhere to look for him, and when Felicity calls out, she presumably goes to suit up.

Sounds like the casting sides are better written than the episode itself, or we have yet to see those scenes.

[theOAfc]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't see this brought up, and I hadn't watched the episode until today, but did anyone else notice that the scene with Digg and Dinah sparring resembled the Tinah casting side side that was leaked? IIRC, the casting side included: sparring in the lair, "Oliver" complimenting Tina on how well she fought, Tina talking about her backstory, "Oliver" and Tina sharing a long look, and Felicity interrupting with "I found something!"

 

No wonder everyone was commenting on the vibes between Tinah/Digg. There's your chem test scene, lol.

Damn. I dont know whats worse,redoing a GA/BC romance or doing that.

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Damn. I dont know whats worse,redoing a GA/BC romance or doing that.

I can't accept either.  Diggle and Lyla are Olicity five years in the future.  What's bad for them is bad for Olicity as well.  ;)

[Starfish35]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't see this brought up, and I hadn't watched the episode until today, but did anyone else notice that the scene with Digg and Dinah sparring resembled the Tinah casting side side that was leaked? IIRC, the casting side included: sparring in the lair, "Oliver" complimenting Tina on how well she fought, Tina talking about her backstory, "Oliver" and Tina sharing a long look, and Felicity interrupting with "I found something!"

No wonder everyone was commenting on the vibes between Tinah/Digg. There's your chem test scene, lol.

Oh I didn't see that you posted a clip - sorry.   And thanks - now I don't have to watch the episode. :)

Ok, yeah, I can see it a little, on both sides, not just her.  But I can't imagine them breaking Dyla up, so I think it was just some weird accidental chemistry, like what Willa used to have with Stephen early on.  

But what is this really with the bo staff? I know I said it already, but that was Sara's thing.  And if they're going full comics BC with her, the comics BC as far as I know doesn't use a weapon.  

Although I guess this does kill the idea of a Dinah/WD romance, if it wasn't dead already.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Oh I didn't see that you posted a clip - sorry.   And thanks - now I don't have to watch the episode. :)

The scenes where I really noticed the chemistry was when they are talking in a car later in the episode and then back at where she was staying when she tells him about getting both an apartment and being hired at SCPD.   

Edited February 21, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

Did Dig actually help her find a job and/or place to live or was he just there to talk to her about it? Because I got the impression from DR that Dig would actually be actively helping her with those things. And while on the subject, is Dig currently employed? I mean, it's not a bad idea to get your own ducks in a row before starting to arrange others'.

[apinknightmare]

12 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Did Dig actually help her find a job and/or place to live or was he just there to talk to her about it? Because I got the impression from DR that Dig would actually be actively helping her with those things. And while on the subject, is Dig currently employed? I mean, it's not a bad idea to get your own ducks in a row before starting to arrange others'.

She found the apartment on her own - Diggle just encouraged her to apply for it and put down some roots. She got the job on her own - I don't recall him saying anything to her about that. 

[LisaM]

Is there a rule that there can only be a certain number of people on the Team at any one time? We gained Dinah - who I like - and lost Rory - who is the best of the Squinterns. Doesn't losing Evelyn count so that we can have Rory back? 

I like that Rene is now working for Lance.

[statsgirl]

There should be a rule that there are only 4 members on the Team, OTA plus someone else, because that's all the writers an successfully handle, unlike the LoT writers who do a great job at balancing the interactions of their large cast.  When there's more than 4 on Team Arrow, someone gets short shrift, as Diggle and Felicity did when Sara was on, or Diggle being left behind to man the comms or the getaway helicopter when Laurel and Thea joined, or this season Curtis doing so much of what Felicity did/does.

[blackwing]

I was out of town last week for work, and am catching up on TV.  I wish I had deleted this episode.  It was so incredibly boring and sanctimonious.  Worst of all, it heavily featured Wild Dung.  Did TPTB think that by featuring Wild Dung and his "origin story" with his family, that it would make me like him?  Well, they failed.  I still dislike him.  I couldn't care less about him or his family.  Never mind that isn't he about 25 years old?  He looks young and is certainly portrayed as young.  He's the young hotheaded kid who can't control his temper.  He's 25 and has a 10 year old daughter?

Still really disliking the reporter.  Why is she so prominently featuring in this show?

On 2/16/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lantern7 said:

Really hoping that Curtis gets a costume upgrade next season. I'm okay with the hair, though a hood could conceal it better. Having a "T" on your face does not work in comics that well, and it really isn't good to look at "live."

Really hoping that Curtis dies.  Completely useless character and he's the biggest joke as a "superhero".  We lost Ragman apparently (I'm assuming because his special effects budget got consumed by the canary cries effects).  Thea is no longer part of the team.  People who are actually effective on the team keep leaving and yet we keep getting stuck with Wild Dung and Curtis.

Edited February 22, 2017 by blackwing

[DigitalCount]

I'm breathing a sigh of relief, because I thought I was just going to have to stop watching TV due to my shipper goggles. I will report in as yet another vote for wtf is this Dig/Dinah nonsense on my screen. Definitely saw what everyone else seems to be picking up on. It's not that they didn't do well with it, and if Lyla didn't exist I'd probably be somewhat for it, but let's just nip this in the bud plzkthx. BTW, if we're comparing unintentional chemistry, it's still not at Willa/Stephen levels IMO, since Dinah hasn't inappropriately fondled Dig's muscles yet--thankfully, I might add.

The biggest things that annoyed me with this episode were a) the fact that the narrative just stopped every time the gun debate came up so that the actors could act out the words the writers wanted them to say, and b) the unreveal of what their gun control plan would be, while claiming that it was the bestest. It gave me flashbacks that I didn't really want to have and perhaps revealed the man behind the curtain more than any other show of its caliber that I watch. Plus, I don't think politics are where the Green Arrow doesn't pick a side? I was under the impression that comics!GA was super-liberal to the point of almost being a parody. If they got backlash, well, that's the character. And yes, it's also dumb that this was even a discussion for obvious reasons, but they could have tried to make some sort of argument about scope and intent and other things that this show doesn't have an interest in examining. I don't think a show that is violent is disqualified categorically from having an opinion on the matter, but that opinion can't be unforgivably stupid if they want it to work.

[AudienceofOne]

On 15/02/2017 at 11:28 PM, Lantern7 said:

I wouldn't say this is the definitive worst episode, but it is a contender.

 

How soon we forget last season's "Valentine's Day" episode with the fake wedding. 

Can anyone tell me WTF is going on with Felicity this season? Did we get a change of writers or did the nutty Canary fans finally get their way?  

Meanwhile in offscreenville... Oliver's new one-dimensional "girlfriend" was apparently in Cabo with Ragsman who no doubt has NO opinion on the proliferation of dangerous weapons in the name of self defence. Like, at all.

[tv echo]

MG's 'topical' episode...

513 (Spectre of the Gun) - Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I returned home with only one goal - to save my city. Today I fight that war on two fronts: By day, I lead Star City as its mayor. But by night, I am someone else. I am something else. I am the Green Arrow."

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Felicity is tracking down Prometheus' mother:
(Diggle and Dinah are sparring with bo staffs, while Oliver watches.)
Felicity: "I've got something. Hold on. It's not something-something, but something."
(Oliver goes to Felicity.)
Diggle: "That's good work. I didn't know they taught bo staff at the Central City police academy."
Dinah: "They don't. My first undercover assignment was with a street gang called the Pilgrims. They liked to mess around with it. I'm gonna head home."
Diggle: "Yeah. You found a place to stay already?"
Dinah: "No. I'm, uh, just staying where you guys put me up."
Diggle: "H.I.V.E.? That's not a home. It's barely livable."
Dinah: "It's fine. I don't need much. See you, man." (Leaves)
Diggle: "What do you guys got?"
Felicity: "Well, I have been working on a location for Claybourne's mistress."
Oliver: "Prometheus' mother. We find her -"
Diggle: "We find the name for this son of a bitch."
Felicity: "Eh, unfortunately, the - the son of a bitch's father went dark after he met with the pointy head of an arrow four years ago, and mommy went off the grid."
Oliver: "Why would she do that?"
Felicity: "Probably because she knows that he turned into a serial killing psychopath nut job. Point being, I have been looking for her for the past three months, but whatever witness protection program she put herself into, it is damn good."
Diggle: "What changed in three months?"
Felicity: "I've had a breakthrough. I've narrowed her new home down to Illinois. I just need a couple more days to narrow that down into an address."
Oliver: "That's fantastic work."
Felicity: "Thank you. Curtis is coming in. He's gonna help with the search."
(Oliver gives her a thumbs up.)

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Oliver tells Thea that he's getting serious about his relationship with Susan: 
Oliver: "It's really nice to have you back."
Thea: "Well, I could say the same to you. I mean, Hub City and Russia. You're really racking up those miles."
Oliver: "A lot to catch up on."
Thea: "Yeah. Like you and Susan Williams? People talk, Ollie, and, uh, some people vomit a little."
Oliver: "Thea, you're kind of insulting someone that I'm getting pretty serious about."
Thea: "Did I mention people vomit a little?"
Oliver: "You don't like Susan because of how she does her job. She's good at her job and she's a good person. So there."

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Team Arrow is having trouble identifying the shooter:
Curtis: "This is military-grade hardware."
Diggle: "AR-15 assault weapon. It fires 5.56 NATO rounds."
Curtis: "It's an M16. It's literally the same gun as an M16."
Felicity: "Seems like some of Tobias Church's ordnance got into the wrong hand - wronger hands."
Dinah: "Not necessarily. It's an AR-15. It's available on the open market. In fact, it's the most popular gun in America."
Curtis: "The land of the free, home of the incredibly stupid."
Felicity: "We are not having this conversation now or ever, guys."
Oliver: "Where are we with the gun?"
Felicity: "Nowhere. It hasn't been used in any prior crime."
Oliver: "Fingerprints? The shooter wasn't wearing gloves."
Curtis: "AFIS didn't kick back anything. I don't think he's ever been in the system."
Felicity: "Or he was smart enough to have himself erased from it."
Oliver: "Security cameras."
Felicity: "He knew how to avoid them. And before he opened fire, he upgraded to a ski mask."
Dinah: "That looks like a utility jumpsuit."
Felicity: "Forefather Repair. It went belly up six years ago. I ran through the employee list, but I think our shooter just bought a uniform off the Internet."
Diggle: "So he could walk into City Hall."
Dinah: "Huh - this guy's real good at covering his tracks, whoever he is."
Oliver: "So who is he?"

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Team Arrow argues about gun rights:
Quentin: "Whoever he is, he's not in the system."
Curtis: "What if, instead of tracking him, we tracked the assault weapon?"
Rene: "Rifle. And Oliver took it. Said he was following up a lead."
Felicity: "There's no gun ownership database for me to go through anyway."
Curtis: "Yeah. Why wouldn't we want something like that?"
Rene: "So the government doesn't know our business, Hoss."
Felicity: "Guys, can we please just not right now?"
Curtis: "I don't have no problem with your right to bear arms so long as it doesn't conflict with my right to, you know, live."
Rene: "Are you kidding me? Look at what we do, man. Our whole life is violence."
Curtis: "I'm not talking about what we do to protect the city. I'm talking about the fact that, as a black man, I am three times more likely to be killed by a gun than you."
Quentin: "He's got a point, Rene."
Rene: "Seriously? You were a cop, man."
Quentin: "And cops would kind of like it if there were less people out there with guns."
Dinah (entering with Diggle): "Not this cop. I mean, people have a right to protect themselves. (To Quentin) Dinah Drake."
Quentin: "Hi. You guys are really serious about this recruitment drive you got going, huh?"
Diggle: "Dinah and I tried to get more information on the shooting out of ESU."
Dinah: "We struck out."
Felicity: "We started trying to track the shooter by using the gun, but then we got a little distracted again with our gun control debate."
Curtis: "Gun violence debate."
Rene: "Here we go again."
Felicity: "Guys, stop."
Quentin: "Actually, this could be cathartic. In light of what's happened, we shou -"
Felicity: "No. I mean stop, 'I have something' stop."
Quentin: "What do you got?"
Curtis: "Wait. That -"
Quentin: "That doesn't make sense."

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Felicity identifies the shooter:
Felicity (over comms): "Arrow."
Oliver (over comms): "Go."
Felicity (over comms): "I've got the name of our shooter."
Oliver (over comms): "Who is he?"
Felicity (over comms): "Well, that's the thing. He's a 44-year-old systems analyst with no criminal record. He's... absolutely nobody."
*  *  *
Felicity: "James Edlund. Husband and father of two daughters, ages 9 and 11. Until 16 months ago."
Diggle: "What happened 16 months ago?"
Felicity: "Crosspoint Mall shooting."
News Reporter (on recording): "We're coming to you live at the mass shooting at Crosspoint Mall today. We must warn our viewers as to the graphic nature of -"
Felicity: "Edlund lost his whole family. Online, Edlund was a pretty vocal proponent of the SCGR."
Dinah: "What's that?"
Oliver: "It's the Star City Gun Registry. The previous city leadership shot it down."
Curtis: "No pun intended."
Quentin: "So city hall doesn't pass a gun law, this guy loses his whole family and takes revenge."
Oliver: "Where is he now?"
Felicity: "That's the thing. After the funeral, he quit his job and his house is in foreclosure. He's between the cracks now."
Oliver: "Well, he's somewhere."
Thea (entering): "Ollie, I can't hold them off any longer."
Oliver: "Okay. Quentin, we have to make a statement. Share the Edlund information with the S.C.P.D., and then we hit the streets and we find this guy."
Curtis: "18 people, by the way."
Rene: "What?"
Curtis: "The mall shooting. 18 people killed, 12 injured. One's a quadriplegic now."
Rene: "Look, I know where you're going with this, but the feds had an assault weapons ban for years, and it did nothing."
Curtis: "Actually, it did- -"
Rene: "Sorry, Hoss. But if the bad guys got guns, then I'm strapping up, too."

513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Marc Guggenheim makes Curtis his mouthpiece and throws Felicity under the bus:
Felicity: "You got something? Nothing but strikeouts."
Curtis: "You?"
Felicity: "Same."
Curtis: "Isn't Rene back yet?"
Felicity: "No. Why? You want to go a couple more rounds with him?"
Curtis: "Why don't you like us talking about this?"
Felicity: "I just don't like you guys arguing while I'm trying to work."
Curtis: "Why not? I mean, there's nothing wrong with a little healthy debate, Felicity.'
Felicity: "It's not healthy if it doesn't accomplish anything, and it's not going to accomplish anything."
Curtis: "Actually, I - I disagree. Not about the part of it not accomplishing anything, but this idea that it's not healthy. We used to talk about things as a society, you know? We'd debate and we would argue, and we would still respect each other after."
Felicity: "Yeah. Somewhere along the line, that just became... rude."
Curtis: "Rude. Yeah. It became impolitic to talk politics. I can't help but wondering that maybe that's why our country is the way it is today. (Computer beeps) Got something?"
Felicity: "Maybe. Name of a support group Edlund used to be a part of. Maybe somebody there still knows how to get in contact with him."
Curtis: "Text me the address and have him meet me there."
 513 (Spectre of the Gun) – Oliver talks the shooter, James Edlund, into surrendering to police:
Curtis (with Rene, over comms): "We're in position, northeast corner."
Dinah (over comms): "I'm on the southwest."
Diggle (over comms): "Overwatch."
Felicity (over comms): "No sign of the bastard, but, remember, he's good at avoiding security cameras."
(Oliver confronts Edlund.)
Oliver: "Hey, don't - don't! Don't do this."
Edlund: "Get back."
Oliver: "You had another chance to shoot me at City Hall. You didn't do it. 'Cause you need me to enact the Star City Gun Registry. I mean, that's what all this is about, right? You want to punish the city, because we failed to protect your family. (Footsteps approaching) But, hey - hey! Mr. Edlund... I - I checked. The man who killed your family, he acquired those guns illegally. There's nothing that we could have done. No- no - no registry would have helped us protect them."
Edlund: "I know. I was supposed to protect them. Isn't that a man's job to protect his family? Isn't that why we have guns? My wife and daughters were innocent!"
Oliver: "I - I can understand why you're angry."
Edlund: "We're all angry! We're all so angry all the time. So why shouldn't I use this? Why shouldn't I kill everyone? Put us all out of our damn misery."
Oliver: "Mr. Edlund, that's not your call to make. Yeah. I'm - I mean, people are angry, and - and we're hurting, and we're lashing out. And I can understand that it feels like it's - it's getting worse every day. But what you're doing is not the answer. The people that you hurt, the seven people that are dead. My friend, they were innocent, too."
Edlund (sobbing): "You're right. And I deserve to be punished." (Points gun at his head)
Oliver: "Hey, hey, hey. Look, James, you got to think about your wife and your daughters."
Edlund: "I am thinking about them."
Oliver: "I know that you want this pain to go away. And I know that you want to be with your family again, but if you want them to live on, it has to be through you. That's the only way. James... give me the gun. Please?"
(Edlund puts down gun, and police hand-cuff him.)

Edited May 30, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Yesterday MG tweeted one script page for this episode, which I've added to the transcriptions above.