Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the writers need to create new characters instead of trying to re-create L&O with its former characters and moving them to Chicago. While I like how Peter Stone is Ben Stone's son and I loved seeing Robinette again, but the shows characters need to come in to their own and not rely on the glory of the mothership to survive. When a mothership characters does appear I would appreciate an explanation ( for example Danielle Melnick ) at least we got an explanation for Paul Robinette. As for right now this show needs improved writing, there are lots of weird writing points in each episode, and get rid of Valdez and drop Nagel's custody battle as well. 

[Waterston Fan]

I admit, I want to see more of Philip Winchester but it doesn't appear he's doing anything since I looked him up in IMDB. 

I wouldn't be too upset if it did get canceled. 

[Xeliou66]

I want Justice to succeed but it has disappointed overall, last weeks episode was good and there have been a couple of other good ones but overall it's a disappointment. There are a ton of writing kinks that need to be worked out which leads to some weak plots, also it's very weird how Dawson and Nagel are investigating cases from the start and Valdez is just awful. 

I hope they give Mark Jefferies more air time in future episodes like they did this past episode, and I hope for more courtroom and legal scenes and less pointless crap about Nagel's kid, Valdez's personal life and hatred of meat and weird lines like the clothes in the bullpen, and chase scenes that have nothing to do with the rest of the case.

They are also relying too much on the former glory of the mothership to get viewers to watch instead of making their own memorable characters. Dawson and Nagel don't have much personality together and the investigation scenes aren't all that interesting, always weak red herrings and bad chase scenes with little interest, and as for Valdez, get someone who can act to play Stone's assistant. Stone and Jefferies are great

[WendyCR72]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:51 PM, Xeliou66 said:

They are also relying too much on the former glory of the mothership to get viewers to watch instead of making their own memorable characters. 

Just to clarify, in the case of the Chicago franchise, its own "Mothership" is, by default, Chicago Fire since that was the first. The fact that Wolf et. al. still need to go back to his prior franchise is both a nice tribute yet problematic since, relying on the past franchise so heavily - at least on this show - really doesn't allow this franchise to stand on its own.

And I do realize it is TV and actors have played more than one role even in the L&O universe (hi Jerry Orbach, Jay O. Sanders, and, ironically, S. Epatha Merkerson, to name a few!), but now are we to assume that Sharon Goodwin has a twin in Anita Van Buren in New York since both show universes are now intertwined (maybe even a triplet counting the role of the mother whose baby was shot to death in "Mushrooms" in S1)?

[Xeliou66]

Like you said, they have used many actors numerous times in the same franchise, as both regular, recurring and one time characters. I will always consider L&O the mothership of the whole franchise, even including the Chicago shows since Justice has tied them together closely. I feel like Justice is relying too much on the L&O stuff and on having a former PD character on it to get viewers and they need to focus on sharpening the writing of the episodes and eliminating dumb shit like Nagel's custody battle being shoved down our throat and the bizarre clothes in the bullpen dialogue, and focus more on the legal stuff and the courtroom. 

[tvfanatic13]

On April 4, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Elliebab said:

you know what? Whatever. I'm sure if it was Erin and jay, there would be no problems. I'm through with this Antonio hating site. 

I love Antonio!!

[CelticBlackCat]

I just watched my first episode of CJ, "Comma" episode 9.  I saw it in the previews on NBC (watching Dateline) and thought the story was going to be a la Amanda Knox, (Vicious Vixen instead of Foxy Knoxy), only Spain instead of Italy and boyfriend instead of roommate.  Even though that's not what the story was strictly about, I enjoyed the episode.  I really like Peter Stone, Nagel is OK, I don't like Valdez (she's too young for the part if she's supposed to have experience, and her acting is wanting).  Carl Weathers, yeah!  I really liked seeing Richard Masur play the defense attorney.  The college girls were OK and I'm glad it ended how it did.  (Poor Kennedy.)  Will watch again and might catch up by watching previous epi's online.

Why do you who have opined that it might be cancelled think so?  The only other Chicago I've seen is Fire and I stopped watching long ago, and a couple of PD's.

[Xeliou66]

This was an interesting episode that I enjoyed overall, but it had way too much crammed in to it. The main story about the murder/the toxic culture on a lot of college campuses/gun control and the Amanda Knox story should've been 2 separate episodes. They are both interesting stories but it was a bad idea to cram them into the same episode, it felt packed and as a result rushed and not enough time was spent preparing for Bethany's, they jumped straight from arrest to trial. I wish they had saved the Amanda Know stuff for its own episode and spent more time on this episode in the courtroom, preparing for trial, and given more scenes to Mark Jefferies instead of having the Spain extradition stuff. 

I thought that Dawson and Nagel had much more spark tonight than in previous episodes which I liked, their part of the show was actually interesting and I was more willing to suspend disbelief at what they were doing. I hope they have finally gelled and the investigation part becomes more interesting and doesn't feel like filler just waiting to get to the courtroom. 

Valdez continues to be wooden and have no acting talent, but it least her role has been decreased and she doesn't have much to do. 

I really like how this show isn't afraid to tackle controversial and relevant issues such as free speech on college campuses and gun control and do so in a way that isn't preachy, the original L&O was always great about that and I like how this show is. 

I liked the defense lawyer a lot in tonight's episode, I hope to see him again soon. 

[watcher1006]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

This was an interesting episode that I enjoyed overall, but it had way too much crammed in to it. The main story about the murder/the toxic culture on a lot of college campuses/gun control and the Amanda Knox story should've been 2 separate episodes. They are both interesting stories but it was a bad idea to cram them into the same episode, it felt packed and as a result rushed and not enough time was spent preparing for Bethany's, they jumped straight from arrest to trial. I wish they had saved the Amanda Know stuff for its own episode and spent more time on this episode in the courtroom, preparing for trial, and given more scenes to Mark Jefferies instead of having the Spain extradition stuff. 

I agree that this episode didn't gel very well with all its different ideas. In the end the Amanda Knox with a psychotic twist character felt like a misdirect, even though she did testify at the trial. I also felt somewhat dubious about the verdict, thought that reasonable doubt on the self-defense argument could have still existed in the jury room.

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked the defense lawyer a lot in tonight's episode, I hope to see him again soon. 

I think the actor's name is Richard Masur and he has appeared before in Dick Wolf's Law and Order universe, although not as the same character. He played a judge on the original show who locked horns with Jack McCoy, I think he also appeared on SVU, although I don't remember him there.

[hookedontv]

I laughed out loud when Stone said: "Hard to believe the country that invented paella hasn't thought about double jeopardy."  For some reason this line had me roaring! 

[Waterston Fan]

I thought this episode was okay but thought they crammed in too much. There was one glaring issue, the victim was tied up, so how is it that they fought over the gun when she had her hands tied? 

They really need to say their names more. lol My brain just goes away trying to remember the names of the ladies. lol 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Waterston Fan
Can't type properly.

[colorfulcoils]

At the start of the episode I did not expect a Meg Malley (with red hair) lookalike and a Santa Claus looking lawyer to be at the end of the episode on trial. I really thought the one on trial would be the "Gamemaster" or the teacher. Good job at throwing a twist!

[CaptainTightpants]

On 4/17/2017 at 4:45 AM, Xeliou66 said:

 

This was an interesting episode that I enjoyed overall, but it had way too much crammed in to it.

 

I have to agree that they had a lot of moving parts in one episode. If they wanted to keep both plot lines, this probably would have worked better as a 2 or 3 parter. 

The good:

• Anotonio was pretty funny with his badge in the library! Both when they went to interview the doe-eyed Kansas girl, and when they went to arrest her. He and Nagel were both pretty solid this episode, I enjoyed the investigation. 
• The defense attorney seemed like a good guy AND a good lawyer. I really liked the character and his interactions with Stone at the bar added some humanity to the prosecution/defense dynamic that has been missing from the show. 
• Mark Jefferies and Stone being on the same page. I think it is a stronger show when they aren't at each other's throats over differing values.

The bad:

• I was confused by Mark Jefferies turn around on the extradition of the Spain killer girl (can't remember her name). Nothing in the episode indicated that she was innocent of killing her boyfriend. She was clearly suffering with some issues from being in prison, but that doesn't make her innocent, and he and Stone had seemed pretty convinced of her guilt. 
• The defense attorney hugging and consoling the doe-eyed Kansas murderer after the verdict is read. He was clearly anti-gun and she pretty much confessed on the stand to straight up murdering her classmate with a gun, and trying frame the Spain killer girl. All so that her jackhole of a professor didn't lose his job. That doesn't seem like someone who would merit a hug from a good guy santa-lookalike. 
• How could nobody else know that the killer and victim knew each other? Everything hinged on the testimony of the Spain killer girl and that seemed unlikely. Surely the killer and victim interacted over releasing the video prior to the murder itself. I would have thought that the gun club pals would have known that the killer was trying to have the video of the professor suppressed. The killer did say that she had approached the victim several times about it. Unless I am misinterpreting something.
• Valdez. I'm not one of the viewers who hates the actress, but she was bad in this episode. The way she speaks to her boss and her boss's boss indicates a certain lack of professionalism that is kind of mind boggling. She is supposed to be the most junior member of this office right? 

[Waterston Fan]

I forgot to mention, I actually thought it was the professor who killed her and I still think he did somehow. 

EDIT: Are we to believe that J and S are trying to send the girl back to Spain? 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Waterston Fan

[colorfulcoils]

What are people's thoughts of when Stone gets offended he calls the person who offended him "sir"? Kind of lame?

[WendyCR72]

44 minutes ago, colorfulcoils said:

What are people's thoughts of when Stone gets offended he calls the person who offended him "sir"? Kind of lame?

It's taken straight from Law & Order when Stone Senior, Ben Stone, Peter's Dad, did the same to suspects or shady lawyers. A callback.

[CaptainTightpants]

43 minutes ago, colorfulcoils said:

What are people's thoughts of when Stone gets offended he calls the person who offended him "sir"? Kind of lame?

I never watched Law and Order, but from what people on here have said that was a trait that also belonged to Stone's father. I think it makes him look more professional with the jury. The other guy might be frothing at the mouth, but he still looks reasonable. 

1 hour ago, Waterston Fan said:

I forgot to mention, I actually thought it was the professor who killed her and I still think he did somehow. 

EDIT: Are we to believe that J and S are trying to send the girl back to Spain? 

I thought it was going to be revealed that the professor orchestrated the murder to prove how dangerous guns on campus were. I'm surprised that he wasn't involved. 

And I thought at the end of the episode that J and S were trying to block the extradition to Spain. But I'm confused on that plot point, not sure if was because she helped by giving testimony at the trail, or if they actually thought that she was innocent of the crime.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, colorfulcoils said:

What are people's thoughts of when Stone gets offended he calls the person who offended him "sir"? Kind of lame?

I imagine that 25 years ago when Ben brought out the "sir at home Peter came back into line.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah Peter Stone definitely picked up the "sir" from his dad, who used it frequently. Ben Stone could make a simple "sir" sound like "you fucking asshole", if you watched the Ben Stone years of L&O you would see. I like it, it's a pretty cool call back to the mothership. 

I think Stone and Jefferies were trying to stop the extradition to Spain, but like I said that whole plot was rushed and should've had a separate episode to itself. 

I thought that the professor was going to have had more to do with the murder as well. Like I said, the episode had way too much crammed in. The Amanda Knox story should've been a seperate episode, this one should've been all about the toxic culture on lots of college campuses and gun control. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Ok this might be a dumb question (i live in a place with universal health care) but why would the dead, dirty, cop have medical bills racking up? If he was an active duty Chicago cop, wouldn't he have awesome medical insurance?

[Ailianna]

Medical insurance in this country rarely covers everything--there are still co-pays and minimums required for out-of-pocket and limits of coverage.  Municipal coverage, such as that for police officers, is also constantly being cut into, with more payments required to get coverage and less covered with every new contract.  Additionally, there are a number of things that can disqualify you for insurance all together, so that even if you have good insurance, you still aren't covered.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/4/2017 at 1:30 AM, Lillybee said:

Was it ever addressed as to why the killer pretended to be pregnant and attended the yoga classes.

That kind of bugged me.

What bugged me more was that there seemed to be no real debate on if the not guilty because of insanity was reasonable. It seemed to be the most interesting thing about the case. And the fact that she was taking care of an obviously dead baby makes for a compelling argument. Plus if you get found not guilty, it is not like you actually get away with murder, since I imagine that mental hospitals for murders probably aren't very pleasant (especially since you stay would basically be indefinite). I just wish they had someone on Stone side bring up that a deal might have been the best way to go.

[paigow]

Phone control, not gun control saves lives....

[Xeliou66]

I thought this was a really entertaining episode from start to finish. I liked how they blended the courtroom and investigation stuff throughout it, very well done. 

I always like when the Dick Wolf shows take on an important legal issue without giving any easy resolution to it, and they did so tonight with the cell phone issue. While I understood Stone's point about social media being used to start gang wars, I sided more with Jefferies and Valdez thinking that it was probably a violation of civil rights and also based on profiling of poor minorities, it is scary when government technology is used to predict future crimes and then take people's phones away. Stone seemed to be letting his strong emotional feelings get in the way of clear thinking and causing him to make risky moves, even though the right guy was arrested in the end. I wasn't surprised that the guy from the start ended up dead in the end, as gang retaliations are common and the whole gang issue is a very real problem in Chicago, and like Jefferies and Stone said there are no easy answers. 

Nice Easter Egg for viewers with Valdez's comment about how sham prosecutions have been used in New York before, I think that was a reference to 2 L&O cases where Jack McCoy used a sham prosecution, one time with the defendants knowledge to flush out a corrupt DA, the other time without it after Borgia was killed, and in that case he wound up getting slammed by a judge and removed from the case by the governor. I liked that reference, good continuity for L&O lovers.

This was the first episode where I didn't really mind Valdez, her acting seemed better and less forced and having her old classmate as defense counsel added an interesting part to the episode ( another trope we saw several times on L&O ). 

I feel like this show has greatly improved over the last few weeks, and is finally running smoothly after a rocky start. They are using Jefferies a lot more, the Dawson-Nagel partnership, which I thought was too low key and lacked spark at first, is now a lot better and entertaining, I think it took time for Dawson to adjust from PD to Justice but the Dawson and Nagel partnership has gotten better each week and I like them pretty good now and hopefully Valdez will continue to improve and show better acting skills. The writing has become a lot better as well, most of the kinks have been worked out and while sometimes a lot feels crammed in, the plots are running smoother now. Overall, I'm liking this show a lot the last few weeks and I hope it gets renewed for season 2.

[Xantar]

I thought this was a return to form after the complete mess they made out of last week's episode. In this case, the issues of racial profiling, social media, and a potential slippery slope were integrated organically instead of just being opportunities for lawyers to grandstand in the courtroom.

Even better, this seemed like a legitimate use of the State's Attorney investigators. Instead of having them show up at a murder which should be handled by the police, they started out by looking into evidence that could affect an ongoing trial. And most of the episode was about the lawyers making their arguments.

I had a feeling that there was going to be a gut punch at the end when I noticed that there were a few minutes left in the episode as the attorneys were all sitting happy in their office. I thought it was actually going to be the kid who turned up dead, so thank goodness for small favors, I suppose.

[misstwpherecool]

Nothing like the smell of sanctimony in the morning.

Using a righteous DA character to push a political issue didn't always work on the original L & O either.

[Waterston Fan]

I liked this episode too and thought it had a good flow as well. Dawson and Nagel were good in this episode and I admit, I don't understand the gun buyback being at a church. Does that really happen? 

I admit, I thought the Vet and Andre both would be killed. I don't understand why Keo thought it'd be a good idea to give the gun to Andre. 

[Dowel Jones]

Political issues aside, I would think that, if the show has an advisor from the police department, he would have laughed himself silly at the gun turn in scene.  First cop notices that the slide doesn't work.  He holds it pointed at the citizen and hits the side, hoping to make it work.  Then he pulls on the trigger.  Then he turns around and points it at his partner while still trying to make it work.  Oy.

[greyhorse]

Couldn't stand the Keo character, but I don't think we're supposed to like him.  The actor has a very androgynous face.  Not sure why he hid the gun with Andre either, just makes no sense.  Was he just hiding it there because that's the first place he sent to after the girl was killed?  And in order to get blood splatter from the dead gang member, wouldn't Keo have had to be at pretty close range to the guy?  So then how does the girl get accidentally shot?  A bit confused there.

I really like Valdez.  She has the perfect young-lawyer-building-confidence-yet-still-looking-for-reassurance attitude. 

Love Dawson and Nagel getting seemingly a bigger role.  Would love to see more tie-ins with PD involving them.

Who was the evidence black guy and where did he come from?  I believe he hasn't been on the show before?  He's kind of the PD version of Mouse, at least when there was a Mouse.

[MaryHedwig]

Quote

I liked this episode too and thought it had a good flow as well. Dawson and Nagel were good in this episode and I admit, I don't understand the gun buyback being at a church. Does that really happen? 

Gun buyback programs happen where I live, at hospital lobbies and police station parking lots. I was surprised one could be arrested right on the spot for turning in a hot one. I thought they had a more "no question asked" policy.

My favorite depiction of a gun "buy back" program was on the old television show E.R. It was Christmas Eve. Each staff member had a wrapped present with their name on it under the Christmas tree from a Secret Santa drawing. Carter gave one gang member a present in exchange for his gun, then another, then another. Soon the tree was devoid of all presents.

Edited April 25, 2017 by MaryHedwig

[sockii]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I feel like this show has greatly improved over the last few weeks, and is finally running smoothly after a rocky start.

I've been rooting for the show from the start and always figure it can take half a season/10-12 episodes for things to really start to gel. And with that said I agree, I feel like things are starting to really come together and this was probably the most solid and interesting episode for me to date. Every member of the team had a part to play and they're coming into their personalities now. It raised a lot of interesting ethical points on the phone issue and I think the writing did a good job of raising questions about Stone's tactics to get justice. (Compare it to, say, SVU these days where Benson can do no wrong, even when she's basically bullying victims into testifying and no one ever questions her methods.)

[rhys]

My TV picture was dark at the end. Who got shot?

I was confused about blood spatter on the gun too.

[colorfulcoils]

I don't get the turning off the cell phones thing as gang members can probably steal other cell phones to use them.

39 minutes ago, rhys said:

My TV picture was dark at the end. Who got shot?

I was confused about blood spatter on the gun too.

The Samuel L. Jackson looking guy who had the son or nephew.

[watcher1006]

20 hours ago, Xantar said:

Even better, this seemed like a legitimate use of the State's Attorney investigators. Instead of having them show up at a murder which should be handled by the police, they started out by looking into evidence that could affect an ongoing trial. And most of the episode was about the lawyers making their arguments.

Seems to me that this is the basic problem with the show to date. It is set up like the original Law & Order with the investigators playing the role of the police officers. When the police get involved it is in marginal roles, like Atwater dropping in. How realistically does this show share a universe with Chicago PD? With that show's "old school" methods, off the books gimmicks, intimidation, under the table, outright vigilantism, the kind of stuff that was always tripping up the prosecution with the judges on Law & Order during the second half of the episode. I would think that when Jeffries and Stone get a case handed to them by the Chicago PD Intelligence Unit they'd react with "Hell, not another one from Voight!"

10 hours ago, colorfulcoils said:

I don't get the turning off the cell phones thing as gang members can probably steal other cell phones to use them.

This felt like the weakest plot point of the episode. I would guess they'd find a way to connect with each other if their accounts were canceled.

[paigow]

Are they going to copy more MacGyver titles?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Seems to me that this is the basic problem with the show to date. It is set up like the original Law & Order with the investigators playing the role of the police officers. When the police get involved it is in marginal roles, like Atwater dropping in. How realistically does this show share a universe with Chicago PD? With that show's "old school" methods, off the books gimmicks, intimidation, under the table, outright vigilantism, the kind of stuff that was always tripping up the prosecution with the judges on Law & Order during the second half of the episode. I would think that when Jeffries and Stone get a case handed to them by the Chicago PD Intelligence Unit they'd react with "Hell, not another one from Voight!"

 

That is what happened on the first episode and in the second the cop making a cameo in this episode was accused of brutality. I was one of those expecting a second shot at the Trial By Jury format when they started doing classic Law & Order with more soap elements 

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I said so at first, that this show sharing a universe with PD really hurts it's realism and credibility. Voight would either be kicked off the force or chained to a desk in real life after being arrested and serving jail time in real life. Even in a system where cops get away with a ton of illegal crap, being arrested and locked up would get Voight fired as he would be a huge liability to the department and a PR nightmare. So this otherwise realistic show that is a successor to the realistic L&O is hampered by sharing a universe with PD and Voight. Stone does know that Voight isn't trustworthy as he was the prosecutor who locked Voight up and he knew his claim of the arsonist who killed Olinsky's daughter among others confessing was bullshit and didn't even try to use it at trial. Since then, we haven't really had any ties to PD, but it is unrealistic how the SA investigators do the jobs of homicide detectives. 

[Enigma X]

I actually really like this show.

In regards to this episode, I think the actor playing Keo was trying to hard, and he looked like a black Cillian Murphy. Neither are compliments.

[Xantar]

I've said before that I think the big mistake the creators made with this show was having the focus be on homicide. We already have a show all about homicide (Chicago PD). Chicago Justice could have been about all the myriad other things that a state's attorney does such as enforcing building codes (you could do lots of stories about people getting hurt by faulty wiring or insulation) or investigating bad teachers in schools or corrupt officials or elder abuse. It would also make it much easier for Chicago Justice to crossover with shows other than PD. The possibilities are really endless. Yeah, it would be unrealistic to have the same two lawyers working on all of those issues, but I would easily forgive that.

Instead, every episode is about murder which means this show is completely pigeonholed. The writers have found some really creative ways to pull in larger legal issues, but there's only so far they can stretch.

[WendyCR72]

But Chicago Justice being about murder isn't a surprise to me, considering its pedigree. Dick Wolf's other offering all focused on murder. So this show seems to be a part of the usual Dick Wolf wheelhouse.

And the L&O franchise used murder for many, many seasons, pigeon-holed or not. The writers just have to be up to the task.

[paigow]

Search & Replace plea bargaining does not work well in non-murder cases...

Stone/ McCoy: If your client rolls on his accomplice/ mob boss / cartel, then the death penalty is off the table. This offer expires in 10/20/30 seconds...

[Raja]

Didn't they do a faked kidnapping on Law & Order Los Angeles?

[WendyCR72]

38 minutes ago, Raja said:

Didn't they do a faked kidnapping on Law & Order Los Angeles?

I wouldn't be shocked if most L&O shows didn't have some variant...

[Xeliou66]

Okay, that episode is what I call a missed opportunity. The whole premise of a fake kidnapping resulting in a murder was a very interesting premise and I would've liked more exploration of the legal issues and of who was responsible. Instead what we got was a jumbled mess that didn't even make coherent sense at the end. Here's a breakdown of the bad writing : 

They didn't even talk to the daughter until after the trial?!!! Seriously, what the fuck was that? The daughter is a key witness and they would obviously interview her immediately, that was the worst writing I've ever seen on this show.

They woman who ran over the alderman didn't even get sentenced until after the first trial? Unrealistic. And ten she only gets 1 year PROBATION for a hit and run? What's less than a slap on the wrist? She deserved some prison time, she did commit a hit and run. 

Just how did Stone expect the guy to confess, and why would he? That made no sense, he had no reason to confess at all, and there was no way Stone could've predicted he would do that. 

The defense basically confessed the ex made the phone call at first, then at trial they argued he didn't.  

They took what should've been a very interesting case and turned into a totally confusing, unredeemable pile of crap. Just when I thought the writing of this show was becoming consistently solid they churn out this. 

On the positive side, they are using Mark Jefferies a lot more and Valdez has become a lot less irritating and her acting seems better.

Nagel's constant whiny attitude and soapy personal stories are bugging me though, she doesn't add much and is getting irritating. I wouldn't mind if they gave Dawson a partner with more personality and more spark, the investigation part of the show just hasn't been as smooth as the legal part, and the show can't seem to find a solid rhythm or balance.

[paigow]

Dawson went from "Bro Code" to "Braveheart torture" after the Oliver Queen voice altering technology was hacked.....

[Sandman]

Not a great episode, and I agree it was jumbled, but I thought the writing for the episode about the girl facing conviction in Spain was the worst writing we've seen on this show -- and certainly the worst acting! Oy.

I liked the idea of following the evidence where it leads, and the case looking like one thing to the investigators at the beginning only to prove to be something completely other in the end, but the execution of the idea was muddled.

[Sandman]

On 2017-04-24 at 8:55 PM, MaryHedwig said:

the old television show E.R.

Wow, I feel old now.

[sockii]

I felt like this one started out strong but fell apart toward the end for many of the reasons already mentioned. Shame, because at first it was almost like an old fashioned, twisty SVU episode to me -- the kind where you're sure the ep/case is about one thing (the Alderman's death) but then the initial crime opens up an entirely new situation (the fake kidnapping). I too was puzzled about why the investigators never talked to the girl until after the mistrial, that just seemed like idiot plotting to me. And this is the second time (I think?) already where we've had a guy break down and make an outburst confession at the end of an episode for rather ... shaky motivations. I don't like Stone relying on that so much and it feels like cheap writing to me.

[bioprof]

The writing is sooooo bad....and  will that smirk ever disappear from Valdez's face?  Seems like the researchers for this show are cut from the same cloth as the ones that advise on the medical issues on Chicago Med.  Really disappointing....

[Waterston Fan]

This episode was okay but I think the mom and dad both should have gone down for murder. I didn't think the oil or prune juice guy scene was really worth it. I don't understand why they didn't talk to the girl when they first found her. I think she was just making both her parents look good but I did feel for the father who seemed to be living in a dump.